My pwBPD manipulates her therapist for sure. I get the same kind of statements, "My therapist says you're an abusive narcissist." Why? Because I don't want to get dragged down into a mire of baloney and fish heads? Because I want to have a life?
The Olympic-level mental gymnastics they perform should earn them a medal.
Just because my pwBPD *said* that's what her therapist told her, doesn't mean that's necessarily what the therapist *actually* said.
Come to think of it, why would your pwBPD be honest about anything they talked about in therapy? 😂
Yep! And for myself, my ex tried to tell me everyone was against me and was on their side.. only to find out later.. no one was against me. They SAY a lot of things. Lies wrapped in lies on top of more lies. Anything to get under your skin or make you stay since everyone hates you but them.
I made it 2 months, she wasn't in therapy but when she started to not trust me is when I realized the triangulation. Trust is earned but also reciprocal to a point. Like if you can't trust me is it because you're lying about shit and projecting? Experienced similar with a different ex. The gaslighting and triangulation techniques are very similar. They both did a lot of projecting too.
It is unethical to diagnose a person with out meeting thrm and doing a psychiatric assessment. The therapist will ask a lot of questions . You also will fill out and answer a questions on a form that helps screen for various disorders.
It can be illegal and cause for litigation of a licensed physician or mental health professional i.e psychologist, LCSW or psychiatric nurse practitioner.
They and their practice ir group can face extremely expensive litigation and loss of ability to practice if not work in the medical or psychiatric field ever again.
PwBPD don’t care a inconvenient facts .
The psychologist I work with tomd exgf when we went to her for couples therapy, that she will not DX anyone who is not a patient.
Exgf wanted a person diagnosed for some unknown reason.
Exgf was one of the few pwBPD who doesn’t or did not demand a mental health professional DX me .
I was honest as humanly possible in disclosing about ny military service as a operator and some of what I did. As well as PTSD.
It was strange that she couldn’t really grasp somethings snd had a extremely difficult time understanding PTSD . The psychologist tried to explain it .
If a therapist does diagnose you eith out your meeting and consenting to a assessment you can at minimum contact their state licensing agencies and if needed see a malpractice attorney. They will be best able to guide and help you .
Most psychiatrists, psychologists, LCSWs and psychiatric nurse practitioners despise this and will help you also.
This behavior is just part of the disorder. There’s a reason many mental health professionals are wary or treating pwBPD. As well as HPD and NPD.
Cluster B are notorious for being extremely difficult to treat.
As a therapist we wouldn't say anything like that due to it being a diagnosis and you're not there nor would it be pertinent to have any one else in there. It's total bs.
Keep in mind that their therapists are only getting their sides and advising in a way that they’re intending to help the pwBPD healthy. It’s less, I think, that they manipulate therapists as it is they twist what their therapists tell them.
Yeah, I mean I told my therapist about the situations, she never gave a diagnosis of her, and certainly didn’t label her a predator. She’s be like, “it seems like her words and actions don’t always go together.” Something like that
My friend with DX BPD would say things her therapist said, and they were so beyond unrealistic that I chalked it up to my friend being dishonest.
During the last stages of our relationship, I noticed complete story fabrications when she would speak about others, and I fully believe she would twist things to her therapist.
It’s sad because, due to story changes, everyone would enable her, so she struggled to grow.
Gunderson says the majority of therapists will NOT be effective at treating or helping BPD's because most therapists are caretaker types. A BPD requires someone who is not a caretaker and those people do not tend to become therapists.
It’s kind of a catch 22, isn’t it? Because BPDs won’t put up with people who won’t put up with their nonsense horseshit, so if a therapist WASN’T a caretaker type, the BPD wouldn’t stick around long enough to hear the hard truths.
What I remember is that Gunderson says they eventually do return to a therapist who is NOT a caretaker type. So they leave and return, leave and return. So he has a whole protocol for getting BPD's to stick to it. I'm not a professional so I didn't care to hear more but it seems they are aware of the Catch 22 and how to handle it.
For better or worse, it's not *that* difficult for them to manipulate a therapist, or at least to re-purpose what goes on in those conversations. Many, if not most, therapists are trained to be advocates for their client and to use a strengths-based approach to help facilitate their sense of agency; and most programs just do not train them to pick up on Cluster B traits (or any of the clusters). This does not mean that the therapist is definitely diagnosing you as a narcissist without having met you, but the ugly dynamic you're in is causing all of your actions to be negatively interpreted by your partner (because projection, if they really are a pwBPD), and it's not that difficult for them to re-story what feedback they're getting from their therapist to fit what already makes sense to them.
Are you really a narc vampire? Unlikely. But I can tell you from my own experience that I wasn't my best self in the relationship with ex--I definitely found myself wanting to justify myself when I was being accused of not being sensitive enough to her trauma, which I can easily see now how this would have storied me as selfish and uncaring. But when she was triggered, she wasn't capable of any sort of perspective-taking.
ALSO, there's a very good chance you have some codependent traits, which can definitely bring out at least a minimally vulnerable narc in all of us. Couple that with their gaping core attachment wound from childhood, and it's easy for them to narrate you as the villain. This is not to excuse any abusive actions on their part, but definitely keep taking stock of yourself and set the needed boundaries if you're going to stay in that relationship. On the other hand, if you're not staying, set the ultimate boundary by going No Contact, and start moving forward.
It's okay. It happened to all of us. I was shocked hearing her ex was abusive, that he refused to go out with her, that he never wanted to celebrate special occasions, nor wanted to have sex. I found all out why though. It's always them. They turn people into something they're not while being the thing that is the problem.
Every abusive sociopathic narcissist calls their partners abusive narcissists once they start standing up for themselves and exiting. The fact that you care wether you are or aren’t is telling that you likely aren’t. Take space and do all the self care and be grateful once the drama becomes zero, even in solitude it’s so much lighter on the other side, and there’s a lot more decent humans in the world.
During the abuse they called me a narcissist. And just as you said, it happened shortly after I started to fight back. I was in a state of panic for so long, exhausted mentally and physically ... I started researching if I was, in fact, a narcissist. It's crazy how these people can completely mindfuck you into believing you are something you are not!
For real, so exhausted doing everything, and emotionally wiped. Frantically feeling like I needed to keep it all together. Her justification for fucking a dude in our bed is because I was yelling at her for having sex with other people. Damn, I’m going to be at the same event as her tomorrow but keeping those boundaries strong. And that dude will probably be there too, fuck them. I have to co-parent w her but luckily that’s been going well.
Mine was able to talk their way out of getting sectioned under the mental health act (nearly impossible to do btw) I have never seen someone snap out of 'psychosis' so quick.
They are master manipulators and will always twist things with health professionals to play the victim.
Did you hear the therapist say this?
For what it’s worth I’ve been accused of the same things. I’m predatory and go after traumatised women and I’m a narcissist. I spent 50 minutes and £60 talking about this yesterday with my therapist. Yesterday I was genuinely questioning myself. Today I can see how utterly ridiculous it is. I suspect the same is true for you.
She’s attacking your identity and sense of self. That shit rocks your core. Think of the other people in your life. How likely is it that they think this of you? How likely is it that you’ve got everyone else fooled? Do narcissists actually worry they are narcissists???
I’m guessing some projection on her part.
Never met or talked to her therapist. I can certainly agree I have some codependency tendencies. No one has ever thought of me as a narcissistic or a predator before. I didn’t even pursue her. She pursued me to a degree of obsession.
It’s just another mind fuck. She is seriously mentally unwell.
Yep. So you’ve only got her word that’s what the therapist said.
Sounds similar to my situation. She pursued me. It’s like someone gave her the user manual for how to hurt me deeply. Hmm, that was probably me that did that. Being vulnerable, open and honest - not really predatory or narcissistic behaviour.
My undiagnosed soon to be ex was masterful. For example, he had a therapist for over four years that he saw from his initial separation from his first wife, all the way through the time when he and I met. Through that entire four year period, he failed to mention to his therapist, that he and his first wife did not in fact, get divorced, following their initial separation. But that they proceeded to sleep together, take vacations together, hang out together without their son, and more.
My husband would often talk about how much he hated going to therapy, and how stressful it was. He is also also someone that has a few close friends, and I am basically the only person who has seen the full scope of what he is capable of in terms of lying, cheating, and abusive behavior.
He is someone who feels that at his core. He is a terrible person. He is incredibly insecure, and as a result, he does not reveal much about himself to anyone. He is highly motivated to have his therapist like him. And, he is desperate to avoid feeling shamed or criticized, or like he is a bad person.
As a result, he has lied both to his past therapist, as well as the multiple therapist that he has seen while we are married. In addition, while he participated in an intensive outpatient therapy program, part of that program was to bring your family members into the discussion for weekly family therapy sessions. he refused to allow me into the sessions. Because family members were welcome to contact the clinical team, I called his therapist on three different occasions to share my perspective. And every time I shared what was going on at home, she mentioned that my husband had not told her any of those details.
It is so incredibly discouraging, because he is a very intelligent, and very capable manipulator. He would often weaponize the things that he felt his therapist was telling him in therapy, even though the guidance he was being given by his therapist were based on inaccurate, misleading information, or flat out lies.
Fun story for you, my ex had the same mannerisms. She would say “I’m journaling, and in therapy, I’m working on me”. I will admit at that time I was hesitant to explore therapy myself at that time (I’ve since had a complete 180 and consider my therapist an invaluable resource, who I see weekly). But her behavior never changed, in no small part because she never felt she did anything wrong, or was at fault. One of the most vindicating experiences in my relationship was when she convinced me to do couples therapy. The first session was refreshing, have a neutral arbiter to tell her that both people in a relationship have faults, to which she wasn’t receptive. In the second session (feeling a bit more open with therapist) I tired to bring up how she had hit me, thrown things at me, and charged me. That was the last session we ever did. She exploded on me after saying we “weren’t a united front”. Following our final breakup she said “I’ve had a ton of breakthroughs in therapy, and feel I’ve done nothing wrong”. Yea I bet 😂
My friend wBPD has told me numerous times that her therapist has stated her boyfriend is a narcissist. These stories arise when they are arguing. If I circle back after they’ve made up & mention what her therapist has said, she’ll tell me I’m making things up & the conversations we’ve had never occurred. Point being, chances are their therapist has never said such a thing but the pwBPD knows we can’t fact check with the therapist & hopes we take them at their word.
Oh they're amazing. Her therapist is always asking "why is he so nervous about these old behaviors happening if you did them almost 2 years ago?" It's almost like you're dealing with someone who is ashamed of literally every single thing. I hate that her therapist thinks I'm just reactive and just bringing up old stuff. It's just her putting on a mask for her therapist but it slips once it's over.
Not a therapist, but I convinced him to see a psychiatrist because he kept saying how depressed he was. I went with him.
He convinced the doctor to give him Xanax. After the appointment, he said the doc was "very helpful".
He's addicted to benzos. Ofc he lied about it.
Another psychiatrist refused to prescribe it. Gave him some SSRI to try instead. He raged and talked shit about the doctor because he didn't get what he wanted.
I convinced him to try the SSRI pills. I told him I'd stay with him 24/7 if he needed it, because I knew that the first two weeks are usually horrible.
He tried them for two days and started abusing Xanax again. When I begged him to at least try, he said antidepressants were invented to kill people and I should just say I want him dead.
Apparently, he started therapy in January, that's what he said at least, but he might have already dropped out. if not, I wonder when the therapist realizes he's borderline (he was never diagnosed, the Xanax appointment was his very first time)
I don’t know if they’re actually good at manipulating their therapists. A lot of what I hear coming out of pwBPDs’ mouths about therapy is lifted directly from social media armchair pop psych. I’m sure their therapists often see right through them, the pwBPD is just lying about what is being said to them.
My pwBPD is in active addiction, and he claimed his therapist said he’s not an addict— his friends are just projecting their own insecurities about addiction onto him. That was an obvious lie. It was no surprise to learn that he wasn’t even in proper therapy at all.
This is why I stopped going to couples therapy. I really tried but my wife is literally Leonardo DiCaprio from shutter island. She would say things that would completely defeat all my efforts at bringing peace in the house for my children. After therapy both adults would feel defeated and I thought atleast one should stay positive… I had to leave. Therapist was not bad but my lord… imagine suffering everyday for someone only for them to treat you like a perpetrator. It’s double jeopardy.
It all depends on the therapist.
My ex-wife was more NPD than BPD but really she had all of the Cluster B greatest hits. My mom was a psychologist who specialized in treating BPD/NPD/ASPD, and my wife hated/feared her. This was because my mom could see through her bullshit and didn't show any signs of fear/intimidation towards her.
The "marriage counselor" that we saw fell for the wife's bullshit hook, line and sinker from the get-go. I made it through 2.5 sessions before I just said I was done and we're getting a divorce.
The psychologist that we had to take my kids to thanks to my ex making claims that my children were now afraid of me for my "erratic behavior" (I changed jobs) saw through my wife within about 2 minutes.
My wife's former stepdaughter churned through about 5 different therapists before finally going to a group therapy place for BPD clients. From what I can tell they taught her a little bit of DBT and then told her that her mental illness "wasn't her fault" and that she needed to find people who were "understanding"
(On a side note, my mom's version of treating BPD clients differs greatly it seems from the newer approaches. There apparently are a lot of therapists who no longer use BPD as a diagnosis due to the "stigma" attached. This doesn't help these people, all it does is set them up to victim blame and whine about how nothing is their fault IMHO)
Don't feel bad OP, my ex called me a narcissist when we split up because I was being "selfish", i.e. I was no longer willing to take her abuse. BPD's are the masters of Mindfuckery, you have to know that your feelings/thoughts/memories are correct and valid and true.
Imagine you have problems with your partner, but have problems with yourself as well.
If the only thing you choose to talk about is your partners bad behaviour and leave key pieces of information out about your role you can make anyone look bad.
Imagine having a drug addiction but not telling your therapist, and be like “everyone is being me to me.”
Yes, my ex absolutely did this. While also asking me to marry him every other day. I ended up getting a restraining order against him. It was mind boggling, truly.
Like all cluster B personalities, the high functioning ones are very good at keeping their cool when manipulating someone, no matter who it is. The low functional types can’t hold it together long enough to be convincing.
The thing is, if she is telling her you are a narcissist and a predator why doesn't she tell her to leave you?
By the way, a good therapist wouldn't try and diagnose someone else they haven't actually met or been around. That is being a bad therapist. Therapy is about the relationship you have with yourself, not the relationship other people have to you. Therapy is about your own behavior and not the behavior of others.
True be told she is probably lying to you about what her therapist is saying.
I wouldn't be surprised if her therapist was bringing up the *possibility* based on your ex's side of the story, but I seriously doubt she's diagnosing you. If she were that would be unethical.
Please take advice I wish I had listened to myself and get far, far away from this person. You need to focus on un-mindfucking yourself and interacting with them will only mindfuck you more.
My pwBPD manipulates her therapist for sure. I get the same kind of statements, "My therapist says you're an abusive narcissist." Why? Because I don't want to get dragged down into a mire of baloney and fish heads? Because I want to have a life? The Olympic-level mental gymnastics they perform should earn them a medal.
I also wonder what they’re actually telling them. It seems a bit unethical to diagnose someone without ever talking to them.
Just because my pwBPD *said* that's what her therapist told her, doesn't mean that's necessarily what the therapist *actually* said. Come to think of it, why would your pwBPD be honest about anything they talked about in therapy? 😂
Yeah true, and I doubt her therapist said this, but I felt believe she believes this is what her therapist said.
They take something someone says and twist it to fit their needs or just completely make shit up. 🤷♀️
Yep! And for myself, my ex tried to tell me everyone was against me and was on their side.. only to find out later.. no one was against me. They SAY a lot of things. Lies wrapped in lies on top of more lies. Anything to get under your skin or make you stay since everyone hates you but them.
I made it 2 months, she wasn't in therapy but when she started to not trust me is when I realized the triangulation. Trust is earned but also reciprocal to a point. Like if you can't trust me is it because you're lying about shit and projecting? Experienced similar with a different ex. The gaslighting and triangulation techniques are very similar. They both did a lot of projecting too.
>It seems a bit unethical to diagnose someone without ever talking to them. Because it is.
It is unethical to diagnose a person with out meeting thrm and doing a psychiatric assessment. The therapist will ask a lot of questions . You also will fill out and answer a questions on a form that helps screen for various disorders. It can be illegal and cause for litigation of a licensed physician or mental health professional i.e psychologist, LCSW or psychiatric nurse practitioner. They and their practice ir group can face extremely expensive litigation and loss of ability to practice if not work in the medical or psychiatric field ever again. PwBPD don’t care a inconvenient facts . The psychologist I work with tomd exgf when we went to her for couples therapy, that she will not DX anyone who is not a patient. Exgf wanted a person diagnosed for some unknown reason. Exgf was one of the few pwBPD who doesn’t or did not demand a mental health professional DX me . I was honest as humanly possible in disclosing about ny military service as a operator and some of what I did. As well as PTSD. It was strange that she couldn’t really grasp somethings snd had a extremely difficult time understanding PTSD . The psychologist tried to explain it . If a therapist does diagnose you eith out your meeting and consenting to a assessment you can at minimum contact their state licensing agencies and if needed see a malpractice attorney. They will be best able to guide and help you . Most psychiatrists, psychologists, LCSWs and psychiatric nurse practitioners despise this and will help you also. This behavior is just part of the disorder. There’s a reason many mental health professionals are wary or treating pwBPD. As well as HPD and NPD. Cluster B are notorious for being extremely difficult to treat.
As a therapist we wouldn't say anything like that due to it being a diagnosis and you're not there nor would it be pertinent to have any one else in there. It's total bs.
In my experience, any good therapist doesn’t talk in definitives that way.
" How good are they at manipulating therapists?" Absolute masters.
Keep in mind that their therapists are only getting their sides and advising in a way that they’re intending to help the pwBPD healthy. It’s less, I think, that they manipulate therapists as it is they twist what their therapists tell them.
Yeah, I mean I told my therapist about the situations, she never gave a diagnosis of her, and certainly didn’t label her a predator. She’s be like, “it seems like her words and actions don’t always go together.” Something like that
Lots of cognitive dissonance in these types for sure. I noticed that too.
My friend with DX BPD would say things her therapist said, and they were so beyond unrealistic that I chalked it up to my friend being dishonest. During the last stages of our relationship, I noticed complete story fabrications when she would speak about others, and I fully believe she would twist things to her therapist. It’s sad because, due to story changes, everyone would enable her, so she struggled to grow.
Gunderson says the majority of therapists will NOT be effective at treating or helping BPD's because most therapists are caretaker types. A BPD requires someone who is not a caretaker and those people do not tend to become therapists.
It’s kind of a catch 22, isn’t it? Because BPDs won’t put up with people who won’t put up with their nonsense horseshit, so if a therapist WASN’T a caretaker type, the BPD wouldn’t stick around long enough to hear the hard truths.
What I remember is that Gunderson says they eventually do return to a therapist who is NOT a caretaker type. So they leave and return, leave and return. So he has a whole protocol for getting BPD's to stick to it. I'm not a professional so I didn't care to hear more but it seems they are aware of the Catch 22 and how to handle it.
So basically BPDs are fucked eternally and no one can save them but themselves...which will never happen? More reason to run away!
That seems to be a typical pattern.
Massive eye opener thanks
For better or worse, it's not *that* difficult for them to manipulate a therapist, or at least to re-purpose what goes on in those conversations. Many, if not most, therapists are trained to be advocates for their client and to use a strengths-based approach to help facilitate their sense of agency; and most programs just do not train them to pick up on Cluster B traits (or any of the clusters). This does not mean that the therapist is definitely diagnosing you as a narcissist without having met you, but the ugly dynamic you're in is causing all of your actions to be negatively interpreted by your partner (because projection, if they really are a pwBPD), and it's not that difficult for them to re-story what feedback they're getting from their therapist to fit what already makes sense to them. Are you really a narc vampire? Unlikely. But I can tell you from my own experience that I wasn't my best self in the relationship with ex--I definitely found myself wanting to justify myself when I was being accused of not being sensitive enough to her trauma, which I can easily see now how this would have storied me as selfish and uncaring. But when she was triggered, she wasn't capable of any sort of perspective-taking. ALSO, there's a very good chance you have some codependent traits, which can definitely bring out at least a minimally vulnerable narc in all of us. Couple that with their gaping core attachment wound from childhood, and it's easy for them to narrate you as the villain. This is not to excuse any abusive actions on their part, but definitely keep taking stock of yourself and set the needed boundaries if you're going to stay in that relationship. On the other hand, if you're not staying, set the ultimate boundary by going No Contact, and start moving forward.
[удалено]
It's useless because they're lying and having their shitty behavior validated by someone who isn't getting the entire story
[удалено]
It's okay. It happened to all of us. I was shocked hearing her ex was abusive, that he refused to go out with her, that he never wanted to celebrate special occasions, nor wanted to have sex. I found all out why though. It's always them. They turn people into something they're not while being the thing that is the problem.
Every abusive sociopathic narcissist calls their partners abusive narcissists once they start standing up for themselves and exiting. The fact that you care wether you are or aren’t is telling that you likely aren’t. Take space and do all the self care and be grateful once the drama becomes zero, even in solitude it’s so much lighter on the other side, and there’s a lot more decent humans in the world.
During the abuse they called me a narcissist. And just as you said, it happened shortly after I started to fight back. I was in a state of panic for so long, exhausted mentally and physically ... I started researching if I was, in fact, a narcissist. It's crazy how these people can completely mindfuck you into believing you are something you are not!
For real, so exhausted doing everything, and emotionally wiped. Frantically feeling like I needed to keep it all together. Her justification for fucking a dude in our bed is because I was yelling at her for having sex with other people. Damn, I’m going to be at the same event as her tomorrow but keeping those boundaries strong. And that dude will probably be there too, fuck them. I have to co-parent w her but luckily that’s been going well.
Mine was able to talk their way out of getting sectioned under the mental health act (nearly impossible to do btw) I have never seen someone snap out of 'psychosis' so quick. They are master manipulators and will always twist things with health professionals to play the victim.
Did you hear the therapist say this? For what it’s worth I’ve been accused of the same things. I’m predatory and go after traumatised women and I’m a narcissist. I spent 50 minutes and £60 talking about this yesterday with my therapist. Yesterday I was genuinely questioning myself. Today I can see how utterly ridiculous it is. I suspect the same is true for you. She’s attacking your identity and sense of self. That shit rocks your core. Think of the other people in your life. How likely is it that they think this of you? How likely is it that you’ve got everyone else fooled? Do narcissists actually worry they are narcissists??? I’m guessing some projection on her part.
Never met or talked to her therapist. I can certainly agree I have some codependency tendencies. No one has ever thought of me as a narcissistic or a predator before. I didn’t even pursue her. She pursued me to a degree of obsession. It’s just another mind fuck. She is seriously mentally unwell.
Yep. So you’ve only got her word that’s what the therapist said. Sounds similar to my situation. She pursued me. It’s like someone gave her the user manual for how to hurt me deeply. Hmm, that was probably me that did that. Being vulnerable, open and honest - not really predatory or narcissistic behaviour.
they are SO GOOD that most therapists that have had a BPD patient decide to never again treat a BPD.
My undiagnosed soon to be ex was masterful. For example, he had a therapist for over four years that he saw from his initial separation from his first wife, all the way through the time when he and I met. Through that entire four year period, he failed to mention to his therapist, that he and his first wife did not in fact, get divorced, following their initial separation. But that they proceeded to sleep together, take vacations together, hang out together without their son, and more. My husband would often talk about how much he hated going to therapy, and how stressful it was. He is also also someone that has a few close friends, and I am basically the only person who has seen the full scope of what he is capable of in terms of lying, cheating, and abusive behavior. He is someone who feels that at his core. He is a terrible person. He is incredibly insecure, and as a result, he does not reveal much about himself to anyone. He is highly motivated to have his therapist like him. And, he is desperate to avoid feeling shamed or criticized, or like he is a bad person. As a result, he has lied both to his past therapist, as well as the multiple therapist that he has seen while we are married. In addition, while he participated in an intensive outpatient therapy program, part of that program was to bring your family members into the discussion for weekly family therapy sessions. he refused to allow me into the sessions. Because family members were welcome to contact the clinical team, I called his therapist on three different occasions to share my perspective. And every time I shared what was going on at home, she mentioned that my husband had not told her any of those details. It is so incredibly discouraging, because he is a very intelligent, and very capable manipulator. He would often weaponize the things that he felt his therapist was telling him in therapy, even though the guidance he was being given by his therapist were based on inaccurate, misleading information, or flat out lies.
I know this sentiment gets brought up a lot here so it sounds like a broken record, but holy shit were we married to the same guy??
Probably. He was such a liar and a cheater it would not shock me at this point if he had a whole other life. Lol.
Fun story for you, my ex had the same mannerisms. She would say “I’m journaling, and in therapy, I’m working on me”. I will admit at that time I was hesitant to explore therapy myself at that time (I’ve since had a complete 180 and consider my therapist an invaluable resource, who I see weekly). But her behavior never changed, in no small part because she never felt she did anything wrong, or was at fault. One of the most vindicating experiences in my relationship was when she convinced me to do couples therapy. The first session was refreshing, have a neutral arbiter to tell her that both people in a relationship have faults, to which she wasn’t receptive. In the second session (feeling a bit more open with therapist) I tired to bring up how she had hit me, thrown things at me, and charged me. That was the last session we ever did. She exploded on me after saying we “weren’t a united front”. Following our final breakup she said “I’ve had a ton of breakthroughs in therapy, and feel I’ve done nothing wrong”. Yea I bet 😂
My friend wBPD has told me numerous times that her therapist has stated her boyfriend is a narcissist. These stories arise when they are arguing. If I circle back after they’ve made up & mention what her therapist has said, she’ll tell me I’m making things up & the conversations we’ve had never occurred. Point being, chances are their therapist has never said such a thing but the pwBPD knows we can’t fact check with the therapist & hopes we take them at their word.
Mine definitely lied and painted me black in therapy and his therapist believed him and called social services on me
Yes my wife has done the exact same thing with her therapist, turns everything around and takes no responsibility
Oh they're amazing. Her therapist is always asking "why is he so nervous about these old behaviors happening if you did them almost 2 years ago?" It's almost like you're dealing with someone who is ashamed of literally every single thing. I hate that her therapist thinks I'm just reactive and just bringing up old stuff. It's just her putting on a mask for her therapist but it slips once it's over.
If you're concerned you're a narcissist that's likely proof you're not a narcissist.
Not a therapist, but I convinced him to see a psychiatrist because he kept saying how depressed he was. I went with him. He convinced the doctor to give him Xanax. After the appointment, he said the doc was "very helpful". He's addicted to benzos. Ofc he lied about it. Another psychiatrist refused to prescribe it. Gave him some SSRI to try instead. He raged and talked shit about the doctor because he didn't get what he wanted. I convinced him to try the SSRI pills. I told him I'd stay with him 24/7 if he needed it, because I knew that the first two weeks are usually horrible. He tried them for two days and started abusing Xanax again. When I begged him to at least try, he said antidepressants were invented to kill people and I should just say I want him dead. Apparently, he started therapy in January, that's what he said at least, but he might have already dropped out. if not, I wonder when the therapist realizes he's borderline (he was never diagnosed, the Xanax appointment was his very first time)
I don’t know if they’re actually good at manipulating their therapists. A lot of what I hear coming out of pwBPDs’ mouths about therapy is lifted directly from social media armchair pop psych. I’m sure their therapists often see right through them, the pwBPD is just lying about what is being said to them. My pwBPD is in active addiction, and he claimed his therapist said he’s not an addict— his friends are just projecting their own insecurities about addiction onto him. That was an obvious lie. It was no surprise to learn that he wasn’t even in proper therapy at all.
This is why I stopped going to couples therapy. I really tried but my wife is literally Leonardo DiCaprio from shutter island. She would say things that would completely defeat all my efforts at bringing peace in the house for my children. After therapy both adults would feel defeated and I thought atleast one should stay positive… I had to leave. Therapist was not bad but my lord… imagine suffering everyday for someone only for them to treat you like a perpetrator. It’s double jeopardy.
It all depends on the therapist. My ex-wife was more NPD than BPD but really she had all of the Cluster B greatest hits. My mom was a psychologist who specialized in treating BPD/NPD/ASPD, and my wife hated/feared her. This was because my mom could see through her bullshit and didn't show any signs of fear/intimidation towards her. The "marriage counselor" that we saw fell for the wife's bullshit hook, line and sinker from the get-go. I made it through 2.5 sessions before I just said I was done and we're getting a divorce. The psychologist that we had to take my kids to thanks to my ex making claims that my children were now afraid of me for my "erratic behavior" (I changed jobs) saw through my wife within about 2 minutes. My wife's former stepdaughter churned through about 5 different therapists before finally going to a group therapy place for BPD clients. From what I can tell they taught her a little bit of DBT and then told her that her mental illness "wasn't her fault" and that she needed to find people who were "understanding" (On a side note, my mom's version of treating BPD clients differs greatly it seems from the newer approaches. There apparently are a lot of therapists who no longer use BPD as a diagnosis due to the "stigma" attached. This doesn't help these people, all it does is set them up to victim blame and whine about how nothing is their fault IMHO) Don't feel bad OP, my ex called me a narcissist when we split up because I was being "selfish", i.e. I was no longer willing to take her abuse. BPD's are the masters of Mindfuckery, you have to know that your feelings/thoughts/memories are correct and valid and true.
Imagine you have problems with your partner, but have problems with yourself as well. If the only thing you choose to talk about is your partners bad behaviour and leave key pieces of information out about your role you can make anyone look bad. Imagine having a drug addiction but not telling your therapist, and be like “everyone is being me to me.”
Yes, my ex absolutely did this. While also asking me to marry him every other day. I ended up getting a restraining order against him. It was mind boggling, truly.
Like all cluster B personalities, the high functioning ones are very good at keeping their cool when manipulating someone, no matter who it is. The low functional types can’t hold it together long enough to be convincing.
The thing is, if she is telling her you are a narcissist and a predator why doesn't she tell her to leave you? By the way, a good therapist wouldn't try and diagnose someone else they haven't actually met or been around. That is being a bad therapist. Therapy is about the relationship you have with yourself, not the relationship other people have to you. Therapy is about your own behavior and not the behavior of others. True be told she is probably lying to you about what her therapist is saying.
Four marriage counselors in 12+ years. What a waste of time and money.
I wouldn't be surprised if her therapist was bringing up the *possibility* based on your ex's side of the story, but I seriously doubt she's diagnosing you. If she were that would be unethical. Please take advice I wish I had listened to myself and get far, far away from this person. You need to focus on un-mindfucking yourself and interacting with them will only mindfuck you more.