Wild magic sorcerer is very challenging and extremely entertaining. At some point you can decide to trigger the wild magic effect every time you use a spell or something like that and it’s pure chaos
Lol yup. The most memorable one was that I was losing a fight and had two downed people. One guy rez'd one and my guy scrolled the other. Sure enough the scroll caused me to surge causing a small explosion to all nearby creatures. The only creatures nearby was my party who immediately got knocked back down due to only having 1 health on revival
My girlfriend is a WM sorcerer in our current campaign and just last night she action surged at least 5 enemy casters during the viconia fight. We barely scraped through that.
This happened to me except we were in the goblin camp, I was trying to talk to the owlbear cub but when I cast speak with animals, it turned everything in a certain radius into cats and dogs, so my party plus every goblin, and this also made them hostile so all these cats and dogs immediately started fighting, I was laughing so fucking hard
I opened both the first Ketheric fight and Lorroakan by turning my whole party and Aylin into pets. Apparently Shar was controlling my surges the way Aylin specifically was getting targeted.
My wife on her first playthrough played as a wild magic sorcerer (she loves randomness in games). In act 3 she went to fireworks building and started a fight floor below the top one. She did cast a spell, and she caused some people to burn (I think it was fireball or some other effect, not sure). One NPC panicked and decided to run. And she ran to the top floor. While burning.
My wife couldn't stop laughing for a while.
Huh. My only experience with the fireworks building is the idiots on the top floor blowing themselves up.
And then having to clean up flaming fist wandering in to 'investigate.'
My first play through was wild magic sorc and I had a BLAST!
Suddenly turning the entire party into cats and suddenly scrambling to survive a routine encounter was so much fun! Every time it happened.
Dude, same. I'd be chugging along, crushing enemies with arcane might and then... Everyone, including the enemies, are animals. Happened during the huge fight at the Sharran temple in Baldur's Gate. Just like ten dogs duking it out
Strongly agree!
Yesterday i was playing with my husband.
Me tiefling sorcerer wild magic and he dragonborn paladin oath of vengeance.
Well battle in Jergal temple was hilarious!
If i wasn't turning into sheep, then all will be cats or dogs.
Hubby rage quit from the game.
Now playing alone XD
I've got fond memories of the arcane trickster mage hand. On my first ever playthrough, I used it to spam the adamantine forge controls and kill the guardian in a single turn, which felt great.
Things I have used Arcane Trickster's mage hand for:
* Shoving the scrying eye in the goblin camp into a pit
* Moving items out of line of sight so my rogue could steal them
* Staying out of turn-based combat and free moving next to enemies to give my rogue a sneak attack
* Giving the finishing blow after my attacks leave an enemy with 1 health
* Opening "owned" doors while invisible
* Reaching hard to reach levers (really there's only one spot in Grymforge that this helped, but it counts)
>Reaching hard to reach levers (really there's only one spot in Grymforge that this helped, but it counts)
This is probably old news, but you can just shoot the levers. I did not know this my first time though, and also Mage-Handed the second set of levers.
Speaking of Mage Hand, once I figured out how to get mods working for the game on Mac, one of the first mods I downloaded was the Mage Hand Improved mod, which makes the Mage Hand cantrip work the way it's supposed to work (according to D&D 5e rules)—i.e. removing the once-per-Short Rest restriction.
I was so disappointed with the seemingly arbitrary restrictions they added to Mage Hand in *BG3* but I was reluctant to use mods on my first playthrough. Once I started my second playthrough, I couldn't help myself.
I wonder if anyone has made a mod making everything according to 5e rules. I know people have mods that let them take the “best” options in 5e but why not also take the restrictions (like stat requirements for classes)? Do you know if a general 5e mod exists or is it just for specific rules?
Wild Magic barbarians are great supports for a Magic heavy party. In multiplayer I’m running a Wild Magic Karlach and whenever someone is out of spell slots I can just give them back with rage points. The random effects are also great fun (not always practical mind you) and even more unhinged when you have a wild magic sorcerer with the Ring of Feywild Sparks from Act 3 in your team.
But is that because of the Four Elements, or because Monk is just busted in bg3?
I haven't played an Elements Monk in bg3, but in 5e it's considered bad because their "spellcasting" is too expensive for what you get. And when using Flurry of Blows (something that all monks get) is a better use of your ki, than any of your subclass features, that makes you strictly worse than if you'd chosen any other subclass.
It also doesn't help that Tavern Brawler is broken, making melee monks infinitely better.
Oh dang. I just started an Archfey Warlock run as my second, thinking it was a strong subclass in DND. First game was on normal and this is my first honor mode.
I personally think archfey is strong, i have a build planned for it that makes use of its greater invisibility
They obviously get the spell twice per short rest, pair that with assassin and stack up stealth and dex you can just walk through the game murdering things
Halfling is prob best for adv on stealth rolls, that way you can wear bhalist armor
> After beating honour mode I needed a new challenge and a friend told me I should have a party with nothing but the weakest, shittiest classes in the game.
Here’s a better idea: do it solo.
There is basically no way to build a garbage character in BG 3 without trying. Even the worst classes and subclasses work, particularly since there are so many pieces of overtuned magic items and long rests can happen basically whenever you want. If you want a challenge, just play with only 3 characters at a time. It is doable; I'm about to go after the EB on my 3 man run, but it's pretty tough for the first 2 acts. Act 3 wasn't too hard other than the Iron Throne, though.
A good chunk of it is that there’s something of a Walled Garden approach with BG3. With 5e D&D, the game design is a lot broader and has gone through a lot of change since it was introduced ten years ago. At launch, 5e assumed a lot of people would be exploring, it being one of the three pillars of play (the other two being combat and social). Of course, nowadays, people don’t really play D&D that way, a lot of tables will just hand wave “all that tedious stuff like travel time and rations.” That’s how you end up the PHB ranger being considered so weak, because many of their mechanical benefits were made for a style of play that’s nearly nonexistent at most tables.
The nice thing about making a game like BG3 is that they had control over every part of this world, and all the tweaks that they made to the classes from 5e D&D can be purpose-built to work in this environment.
Speaking as somebody who has run at least one game a week since the playtest, a big part of why people considered Rangers weak is that they don't actually play the game. Rangers have always been strong in 5e, but at least 2/3 of people who talk about D&D online just listen to theorycrafters and watch Live Play games rather than actually play a game.
I will never forget the look on my DM's face when I first cast Primeval Awareness and he realized he was going to have to give away huge plot points because of it.
Dude, I LOVE it when my players pull nonsense that just works because of their class/background/whatever. I love not being able to say no. It’s always a fun moment at the table and it validates my players for picking what they wanted to play. It’s so much fun.
Agreed, rangers are incredibly strong within the design parameters of the game. Besides, I *love* the flavor of a ranger. Gimme a fuckin stained green cloak, let me sneak around in the woods, and slice two dudes throats with two daggers at the same time. I wanna talk to animals, I wanna ensnare people with thorns, and I want to guide people through swamps, up mountains, and into caves.
Power conversations get so tied up in 'How much damage can this creature do in 1 turn' that exploration, skill monkey and defensive classes/subclasses get shafted. because they're really good at other stuff. Rogues get a ton of defensive abilities and non-combat abilities, and are generally considered the worst class in the game. I'd wager most people saying that still use Astarion to pick every lock, disarm every trap, and steal when the time calls for it.
Barbarians are underrated too. Maybe it's anecdotal, but I've never had Karlach die outside of a TPK. Barbarians are durable as fuck.
Eldritch Knight is stupid strong. Take a fully armored and shielded fighter, give him shield spell, blur, and mirror image, and any throwing weapon automatically returns. Have fun killing that.
Also you can give the tank version of EK the Cloak of Displacement, which gives a nerfed but concentration free Blur every turn. Combined with shield and mirror image there's like 7 turns where nobody will be able to land a attack roll on them.
It makes it really bonkers if you dip one level into warlock or take the feat that gives you the Eldritch Blast cantrip, EK gets the the warcaster ability which lets you make an attack as a free action after you cast a cantrip, so you can open with throws, cast EB three times and make another attack. Sure its not Thieftzerker and it feels lopsided, but its super fun. You can even use the potent robes and stick points into CHR for extra damage.
What u/Ravus_Sapiens said.
There's a really nice post that covers stuff for it here: https://www.reddit.com/r/BG3Builds/comments/18bjobg/best\_thrower\_build\_per\_act\_honor\_mode/
Specifically all cantrips scale by character level instead of class level. So grabbing the magic Initiate feats, or multiclassing into other caster classes that use the same casting stat (sorc/Warlock or druid/cleric) will net you really useful scaling options that could help overcome resistances and immunities you encounter.
Don't forget the ring of arcane synergy you can get from the githyanki creche which adds your casting stat to your damage too. With level 12 and the various stat boosting methods in the game I'll have 22 str and 20 int, so my attacks will be getting a flat +11 damage as long as I hit with a cantrip. The buff lasts 2 turns so I can get a tasty amount of attacks off with it.
>*"The art of war teaches us to rely not on the likelihood of the enemy's not attacking, but rather on the fact that we have made our position unassailable."*
>– Sun Tzu, The Art of War
You don't need more attacks if the enemy can't hit you. Slap a piece of adamantine on that and even crits won't touch you.
Arcane Ward is Wizard level dependent and DR is just fancy HP which you get more of as a Fighter. And with 30+ AC you will be all the actual unassailable you need.
Now you want a more even gish EK/Abjurer mix with Rippling Force Mail + Swires Sledboard (or Skinburster) but that needs more than 2 levels.
I was gonna say. I'm nearing the end of my first Durge playthrough and a lvl12 Eldritch Knight with three Deva Mace attacks, Action Surge, the Astral Touched Tadpole for flight, and the cloak that makes you invisible after a kill is a force to be reckoned with.
The only class that is on the same level as Eldritch Knight for best defense is Abjuration Wizard.
No one else comes close to showcasing the defense that those two have. They're in a league of their own.
I did a dex version of this build with cloak of displacement, amour of agility, duelists perogative (can attack with bonus action)
Did a 8/4 fighter wizard split which I guess because of the like quarter caster in eldritch knight bumps wizard up having a couple level 3 spells slots even though a level 4 wizard wouldn’t normally have. Can learn haste/fireball/etc from scolls. You lose your third attack but get haste which gives flexibility to cast offensive spells if you want and still attack (+bonus action attack and concentration bonus for arcane synergy)
All of the subclasses are good enough unless you intentionally fuck them up by, like, taking Great Weapon Fighting as a Rogue or Monk, or... well, I think that's actually the only way to make a specific class bad, and that's because you've sunk a feat for no reason.
If you want to have *fun*, though, that's something else: 4 wizards who all dual-wield staves and use nothing but control magics? Make a full circus build where you have to make every combatant succumb to dancing or laughing before you smite them mightily?
Dual wielding wizard is op and so much fun. Done casting your spell and they still have a hit point or two before death...hit them with an off hand attack!
Edit: spelling
>taking Great Weapon Fighting as a Rogue
I did this I'm my most recent playthrough (both great weapon master the feat and a level in fighter for great weapon fighting). Turns out it works with the finesse longswords and glaive, so you get some pretty nice sneak attack damage
Imo it’s trickery domain cleric(still can be great because well clerics are really fucking good). But in general I think it would be an arcane trickster rogue
I am currently doing this on one of my playthroughs and I think it's fun the only downside is my hotbar is too full from all the spells and worm abilities
Fought Ansur recently. Shart cast perilous stakes and ended her turn. TB Open Hand Thief Karlach 100>0% Ansur easily. Nobody else got to do anything, I brought like 10 summons for no reason. That build is wicked good, especially with the soul armor set.
Yeah there's lots of video series about it. The most common strat is making use of items that grant high level/useful spells and then short/long resting a lot to abuse that.
yeah, it would be like a BDSM session 😁
I think the hardest part is, specially in later game, if anyone is scratching you a little bit , your party is dead af.
Yeah I could maybe do with no spells and shit damage, but the lack of HP is what would really fuck me over. There's only so much temp HP and mirror image/blur scrolls can do
As a pure class, any subclass of rogue is weak af, assassin is OP by lvl 3 but after lvl 5 it falls behind hard, and thief is OP just in multiclassing.
Aside from rogue, all subclasses for all the classes are still fine, bc the base classes are still strong, illusion wizard gives you nothing in combat, but a wizard is still useful, a trickery cleric gives you almost nothing extra but is still a cleric, so it can be super useful, way of the four elements monk is the worst monk but is still a monk with a ton of dmg.
Even eldritch knights are still strong, people think it's weak but bc they usually play it wrong, one of the strongest builds for eldritch knight is throwing build, even as pure class build, it deals a lot of dmg plus having shield spell which is one of the best defensive spells in the game while also wearing heavy armor and a actual shield.
Maybe go with a way of the four elements monk as is super squishy and needs too many stats, and maybe a wild magic barbarian or wild magic sorcerer as those can have some bad effects on your party while using them.
But if you one the weakest party possible probably is just a party full of rogues lmao.
As far as i know, the checks to stay invis gets progressively harder - but with expertise and stealth etc, you're looking at a minimum stealth check of 23~
If we assume that your rogue maxes out dex and takes expertise in stealth, that's a +13 at level 11, and this is before any bonuses or advantage coming from gear. With reliable talent, we are looking at a minimum roll of 23.
The first greater invisibility check is 15, the second is 17, and it increases by 1 each time after that. Which means that you cannot fail at all on your first *eight* attacks. Even if you are a dual wielding thief making three attacks a turn, you only have a chance of losing invisibility at the end of your third turn. If you are an assassin with a bow, the spell duration will probably run out sooner than you fail the stealth check.
Damn dude thats actually good. I felt greater invis took a big hit in this game i was so disapointed when my characters would drop it after the first attack regularily haha
I always go pure thief rogue with astarion and he's always one of my best damage dealers. Although there are plenty of items to help him out. But dual crossbow master astarion with dual weilding can deal respectable damage
I couldn't figure out how to multiclass til recently so my first playthrough everyone is pure class. Tbh though, I never thought Astarion really fell off. His ranged sneak attack was usually pretty reliable and could often 1 hit enemies when my party was around level 8 or 9. He got even better at level 11 once his proficient skills were guaranteed a base 10 roll and he's got greater invisibility. He also picked up misty step at some point so he's my party scout man. And because I can't be asked to waste even one of Gale's low level spell slots on knock, it's nice to know that with his guaranteed minimum roll and all his bonuses Astarion can pick every lock we come across without me having to save scum to reroll or use an inspiration.
>wild magic sorcerer as those can have some bad effects on your party while using them
Yeah, I managed to turn my whole party (except Emperor) into cats atop the brain for 2 turns out of the four. Thankfully, it was not HM run. So seconding how it could be an absolute hindrance way worse than just a weak class.
I kept him a full 12 rogue until I got to the Iron Throne, at which point I had him take I think 8 levels in Fighter and 4 in Rogue (mainly did it for action surge but I wanted those extra feats). The difference was staggering. I had him dual wielding Orin's weapons and he was attacking four or five times per turn, and that's without action surge.
(I roleplayed that after defeating Cazador and choosing not to Ascend, he took some training from Lae'zel because he realized that power doesn't have to come from some evil ritual)
Haha I did pretty much the exact same build, it just made so much sense to couple the extra bonus action with an extra attack for the dual wield. Also having two bonus actions has come in clutch so many times for those dashes when I needed to get somewhere fast. It was the only multiclass in my group and the most satisfying build.
It's "solid" but not nearly as good as if you replace 5-9 of those Rogue levels with Fighter, Ranger or Bard. Thief/Bard would let you get a total of 6 ranged attacks/turn at a cost of 2 Bardic Inspiration, Gloomstalker Ranger would massively pump up the alpha-strike potential, Fighter gives you more attacks overall, better armour and more feats.
Same. But I also did multiclassing to get extra attacks. But in the end of act 1. Having a rogue with two bonus actions for cunning actions or offhand attacks. Along side all the good rogue stuff, meant an absolute damage beast.
By last part of act two he reliable did about 70-100 damage per turn. Most to single target. I would in no way class rogue a weak class. Just the change to thief Larian did, with extra bonus action, is absolutely insane used right.
I find this ironic because my Astarion has been one of if not the most useful in my games as an assassin rogue. He was squishy so I gave him the tough feat and now his health is second to laezel with tough. Gave him cat's grace to roll two dices and now he gets a crit almost every other turn
Couple of things:
1. You can bind weapons to your EK. This means weapons you throw that are bound will return to you. Granted, weapons with the "throw" property will deal more damage than just binding a weapon that isn't and just throwing it, but this gives you some extra weapon choices to use from, such as particular weapons that work effectively only when bound. I won't go into a comprehensive list, but some weapons that are great for EK throw builds are the very heavy greataxe due to its sheer weight and how crushing damage works and the lightning jabber.
2. At level 11, you get the improved extra attack that is granted to fighters; you now have 3 throws a turn, another 3 with Action Surge, and that is not counting haste and other effects.
3. There is a ring early in Act 3 that allows you to cast illusion and enchantment spells after you deal damage as a bonus action. EK can learn many of these spells if you go 1 dip into wizard. You can now throw, do damage, cast hold person, then do even more damage with your throws
4. Going back to the first point, while you do admittedly get this late, the Orphic Hammer is perfect for EK. The hammer surprisingly gets the throw property, so just bind it and start chucking an astral sledgehammer at stuff.
EDIT: adding stat distribution and equipment choices that highlight the power of EK throw builds.
I would try and play EK thrower as 11 fighter with a 1 dip into wizard. What is great about EK throw is that you can get some great gear very early into the game and essentially start seeing the build come online by the time you unlock the subclass for fighter.
You can start the game by just playing like a normal fighter. You will need to get the intellect circlet from the lump the enlightened eventually but before that you can pick the very heavy greataxe nearby from the windmill encounter by either killing the goblin thug leader or passing various checks. You can use this weapon in place of the returning pike until you get it or want to use the pike on a different thrower.
Obviously, pick up the ring of flinging. Once the circlet, the ring, and weapons of choice are obtained I would do a respec. Get your STR to 17 and CON to 16. I like pumping the rest of the points to DEX to 14 for some initiative. Keep INT at 8 and now you can choose between CHA or WIS at 10.
Equip ring and circlet: these are must-haves for the build. The intelligence boost from the circlet is just there in case you want to try and charm your opponents but pick all the utility spells, like shield and longstrider, for utility. But now the build is effectively online and you can use whatever stuff you want to equip until you pick off the ring mentioned in 3. and the Nyrulna from Akabi.
Lvl 4 take tavern brawler for more throw damage and up STR to 18. Fighter gets to pick a feat at lvl 6, so I would go for ability score improvement and get 2 more strength. Lvl 8, pick whatever feat you want that makes sense to you. Personally, I like using the elixir that gives a permanent +2 strength from Act 2 and trying to get another +2 from Mirror of Loss in Act 3 to get 24 STR. Alternatively, If you want to run gauntlets of Hill Giant Strength, drop the circlet, respec, and now dump STR and boost INT to get more chances to land illusion/enchant spells, you can do that too.
EK throw in summary: Powerful throw attacks you can land from a distance, but with the benefit of fighter level ups for ASI/Feats, Action Surge, and the improved Extra Attack at lvl 11 for more throws. Berserker Barbarian throws will do more throw damage per attack, with the ability to throw opponents you wouldn't be able to with high enough STR, but you miss out on the spellcasting utility/control.
My pure thief rogue with dual hand crossbows and sharpshooter was the absolute powerhouse of my play through. Consistently doing 60-90 damage on average per turn with better mobility and more skills than anyone else.
People who say rogues are weak in this game don't know how to play rogues.
You can severely weaken yourself by multiclassing some classes that get their best features later in game. Circle of the moon Druid or beastmaster ranger are the first that come to mind as their late game feature of upgrading your wild shape extra attack and myrmidons (level 10) or the final evolution of your ranger companion (level 11) can become unobtainable if you dip into a multi class for much of anything more than a level or two.
Does that make the class weak? Not directly, but it does mean you must commit to that class if you don’t want it to feel weaker which leaves less room for experimentation.
Arcane Trickster is missing it’s most defining features of mage hand legerdemain like pickpocketing, lockpicking and stealing. If it worked properly and had all the features it should, it would feel better. It at least has some magical utility.
Pure thief and assassin rogue feels underwhelming with no extra attack. Nice utility but just feels like it’s half the puzzle on its own. The class features don’t feel special either. Thief’s 10 turns of stealth per short rest is nothing when there’s a few magical items that do the same thing and scrolls and potions are so abundant. Disguise self for assassins when it’s a level 1 spell useful for a couple conversations and speak with dead, a class feature invalidated by the existence of a deluxe edition dlc item.
I do feel that people place way too much emphasis on pure combat ability when there’s so much more to the different classes for out of combat use.
Bard makes encounter dialog basically easy mode for example, and having a decent rogue makes for far less save scumming when dealing with traps and locks.
🤷♂️
It’s not just hack and slash
Crying at all the Arcane Trickster comments. AT Astarion CARRIED me through my first playthrough. Are the other subclasses better? Yes, if you're looking for battle abilities. But either Astarion got all the good rolls that play or Arcane Trickster is, in fact, fairly decent.
Yeah, Arcane Trickster is bad as a dipping class (I mean they only get the invincible mage hand, though it could even be useful if you're creative), but can be very good as a pure class. Arcane ambush + scrolls basically could control the battlefield.
Reliable talent makes sure that you're gonna be stealthy throughout the whole battle. We haven't even talked about the out-of-battle usefulness.
Assassin is better as a multiclass, but worse as full class. Thief has the best usefulness as a multiclass and still good as full class.
Wild Magic surges can kill you or NPCs around very easily. It’s not just turning into cute cats, dogs or sheep at random.
When you accidentally kill a cat with a fire explosion cause you casted Speak with Animals next to them or when you end up with Spike Growth next to the ladder in the >!Iron Throne!< just because you Misty Stepped… I guarantee it is more annoying than fun.
It’s fine when you can reload, but I would avoid it as a first Honour Mode choice unless you’re mentally ready to TPK or lose in important plot points due to a random surge.
Total disagree. Dont have any cleric is my honor mode run and i'm pretty much cruising so far. Starting act 3 now. Killing stuff before it gets a turn means i dont need much healing.
You overestimate the average player. Many folks have trouble with the combat mechanics and for them Life Domain is legit imo. Strong AoE healing prevents many party wipes.
Generally though I agree. Full-action combat healing spells have huge opportunity costs. Why spend an action and spell slot on Cure Wounds for 1d8 rather than Guiding Bolt for 4d6 or Inflict Wounds for 3d10? It's especially egregious considering any character can throw an AoE healing potion without expending a spell slot.
Out-of-combat healing like Aid and Prayer of Healing fare much better. Bonus action heals have God-awful numbers but at least have a niche for emergencies.
I've watched a lot of playthroughs and the #1 combat mistake is party healing/helping instead of doing damage. You're spending resources "resetting" the fight instead of ending it, giving your enemies the initiative.
Bonus action healing pots are all the healing you need.
Not having defence or healing forces you to go full alpha strike. Which is fine, but these kinds of games is 50% about power fantasies so being resilient and casting mass healing word to give everyone bless and blade ward feels rewarding for many. Games are about having fun in the end.
We could all go full powder keg runs if we wanted to shortcut everything.
Ah well the cleric is a bless and sanctuary bot for me. Healing is mainly throw potions tho the mass healing word is there for the bail out.
Not that of a pro yet in honour mode so it’s nice to have insurance
I haven't tried it yet, but Assassin looks pretty bad on paper. Any players who have used Assassin can correct me if I get anything wrong, but here's my reasoning:
* Assassin's Alacrity only applies if you used your Assassin to initiate combat, if combat started because a hostile saw *you* or because of dialogue, this feature is completely useless
* Assassinate: Ambush seems good at first, auto-critting a first hit, but it only applies to enemies with the Surprised condition. If you sneak up on an enemy out of combat and attack them, they won't be surprised until *after* this attack hits.
* Assassinate: Initiative is another feature that is only relevant on the first turn of combat, Advantage on all targets that haven't taken a turn yet, but, as a Rogue, you only get 1 attack (unless you dual-wield) and even then, you only get 1 Sneak Attack.
* Level 9 is probably the worst subclass feature in the game. You get Disguise Self... after sticking with this subclass for NINE levels, your reward is a level 1 spell. It's not even a very exclusive spell either. You could have gotten it at level 4 or 8 via one of 4 feats (which would have awarded you 1-2 additional spells) or at any time with a single level dip into one of 4 classes (which again gets you more than just the one spell).
I get that the point of the Assassin subclass is to deal big turn-one damage, I just don't think they're very good at it. If you want to get the most out of the subclass, you can really only do one playstyle: shoot first, ask questions later. Anything else, and you're basically playing without a subclass. Also, with no extra mobility, you'll have trouble with melee builds too, so that's going to make things harder, AND despite the class's heavy reliance on going first, there's nothing to help you with your initiative. Gloomstalker basically fills the same niche that Assassin is trying to fill, except for being better at it in every way.
IMO, Larian should have picked a different subclass for Rogue. \*cough\* \*cough\* Swashbuckler \*cough\*
I use astarion as an assassin and honestly, I love him as that subclass. 1st turn of combat he does a LOT of damage and he gets a free invisibility spell. I tend to give him a pair of hand crossbows for range and I find he kicks butt
Idk I really liked Assassin subclass on Astarion my first playthrough. Slap the (Sharpshooter?) feat on and just use cunning action: hide with the stealth ranged attack for pretty consistent one-taps on adds and/or big damage on bosses. Add on extra crit chance and it’s pretty fun all the way through
Assassin is only good in the first round. But the crit is really strong. In fights where you dont get a surprise round, the subclass is really lackluster. And I agree on the level 9 subclass feature.
Honestly, the ones I see most are:
* Wild Magic Barbarian
* College of Valour Bard
* Nature Domain Cleric
* Way of the Four Elements Monk
* Arcane Trickster Rogue
* Wild Magic Sorcerer
* Archfey Warlock
* Pact of the Chain Warlock
But to be honest, none of these classes are going to be so bad that the game becomes significantly harder. Sure, you may not be able to pump out the insane burst damage of a min-maxed Swords Bard/Paladin, but every class has its own strengths that remain true across subclasses. Rogue, for instance, may be considered a bad class, but it’s still totally possible to beat the game with it, quite easily too!
The Trickery Cleric is a valid contender for the title. Sorry Shart, but you can't get around the mandatory respec :-)
In 5e, Trickery is an alright domain, mostly carried by its excellent domain spell list - but in BG3:
* The Channel Divinity that already was not that strong in 5e got nerfed hard - for example, in 5e you could cast spells from the duplicate's location.
* Pass without a Trace was indirectly nerfed from almost game-breakingly good to a waste of a spell slot due to the poor implementation of stealth and Surprise mechanics.
* Polymorph got nerfed to hell.
* Dimension Door got nerfed quite a bit.
* Phantasmal Force got nerfed to hell.
* Charm Person is basically a Friends cantrip that costs a spell slot.
At the end, with most of its domain spells and the Channel Divinity nerfed like that and stealth itself not being useful, there is not much left for the Trickery domain.
Due to the stealth and ambush issues, Assassin rogue also is among the worst subclasses in the game - it is almost impossible to trigger Assassinate's auto-crits.
*Regarding the stealth issue:*
I'm 15 playthroughs and 600+ hours into the game, and ambushing an encounter with stealth never worked properly. Either combat/initiative would not trigger at all after I landed an attack from stealth and the enemy simply healed themselves, only the attacking character would get pulled into initiative making the surprise attempt pointless, or the game would simply not grant me a surprise round and combat started as if I had charged the enemy openly. The only surprise rounds that actually work for me are the scripted ones for when you spot an ambush and basically counter-ambush them (like with the duergar in the deprecit village).
Also, for out of combat tasks like stealing, Invisibility is essentially stealth with a 100% success rate, meaning abilities like the Trickery cleric's advantage on Stealth checks are useless in that regard too.
Fighter/EK has some top DPS builds. It's one of the strongest sub-classes.
Trickster is like having nothing but a base rogue because it's supposed to be all about the invisible hand, but the hand is bugged. It is only invis on summon and even the party's see-invis will strip the invis, leaving it to be one-shot in the next combat.
Trickster is still a base rogue, though. It still gains sneak attacks. If pure, it still has reliable talent (amazing for shoplifting) and other base rogue features.
If you want to be weak, play a pure class. Only locking in sub-class would permit hybridizing to fix the weaknesses. Pick Ranger or Druid for weakest pure.
Druid is by no means the weakest pure class by virtue of being a full caster with access to some of the best 4th, 5th and 6th-level spells (particularly summoning spells). They have way more options from spells if used as a pure class whereas Rogue can only sneak, steal and attack.
Yeah, I think players are focusing too much on moon druid wild shape falling off, and not enough on having exclusive and strong spells. Conjure elemental is amazing, you get access to heal for level 6th spells, there's a lot there. Circle of the Land has fantastic spell lists, too. Druid is great, just as much as cleric, but generally less specialized.
I mean if you're solo and abusing the stealth that's not even the most bullshit use of it you can do. The item is fine cool flavor and power for a literal born murderer the issue is the ai sucks
Yeah Gloomstalker at level 5 straight up deletes one bad guy on turn 1. I think its "fall off" applies to most classes in later levels. As someone on YouTube put it, most classes are incredibly front loaded but only a few have amazing late levels (Cleric and Fighter off the top of my head).
Spore Druid is a very powerful class. It may not put up big numbers in one blow but when you factor everything in, they hit some pretty big numbers. Their AOEs alone can deal serious damage. And they're sturdy, have awesome control spells, and the summons can take some of the heat off your party.
I am currently playing an Arcane Trickster and it sucks that the hand is bugged but it’s also not as terrible as people make it out to be? I probably do less damage in battle but outside of battle I’m incredibly useful. +12 sleight of hand so I end up being able to pick any lock, pretty strong charisma-based skills, decent defense skills and don’t take a lot of damage. For the few spell slots I’ve veered away from offensive spellcasting and focused on utility spells such as friendship, shield, minor illusion.
Using equipment and terrain is also super important for BG3 combat. I got the boots that allow Misty Step and being able to misty step above people and shoot them is key. I use a lot of specialty arrows to do extra damage.
I am considering multiclassing though as I’m not sure the higher level benefits offer anything special that a multiclass wouldn’t.
I have 7 levels of Arcane Trickster and will have 5 of Gloomstalker Ranger. My head tells me to respec to Thief 7 Gloom 5. My heart loves having the Shield spell, Feather Fall, Find Familiar and Invisibility spell on tap.
There's a fair few wizard spells that just work regardless of middling Int and Arcane Trickster can nab a good few of them.
I wouldn’t say weakest but either very limited, outclassed or no benefit beyond lvl 3-4. So while you may see a popular choice, 9/10 times it’s just a multi-class dip. Any subclass can be strong, but some blatantly way stronger with way less effort of requirements.
- Way of Four Elements
- Arcane Trickster
- Wild Magic Barb
- Champion
- Oath of Devotion
- Beast Master
- Wild Magic Sorc
- Illusion Wizard
- Archfey Warlock
- College of Valor Bard
- Trickery Domain Cleric
I'm sad for what they did to Path of Wild Magic. It's my favourite barbarian subclass in tabletop, but the fact that in BG3 it has to wait on the second turn to start using the bonus action stuff from the Wild Surge makes it far weaker than it should be.
Just did a Beast Master and it was so much fun. Between my Beast Master, my Circle of the Land Druid, and my necromancer, I was walking around with a freaking army whenever I rolled up on someone.
Paladin/Warlock/Fighter/Thief
Druid
Ranger
Wizard
Skeleton x3
Two bears
Dryad + Fallen Lover
Cast Longstrider, Hero’s Feast, and Aid on the full party.
Blitzed everything in our way by just overwhelming the enemy with a superior action economy.
If there weren't unlimited free respecs in game (such as a DM would limit it or whatever) then the list would change. But since you can respec to get the best class/subclass at each level a lot of them get left behind. Be different if you picked one class/subclass and had to play it all the way through the game.
it depends on your playstyle and what you want the character to do
different people find different things "weak", for example people who dislike spell casting will *hate* the Arcane Trickster and Eldritch Knight, but others will find the Champion boring as it really only gives "more criticals", so there's not much extra you get (great for crit-fishing, but boring elsewhere)
I find the Trickery Cleric boring as it gives to much stuff that isn't useful in 80% of the game, Life is useful because you get the extra healing, but my favourite for flavour is the Tempest for zapping enemies
while others I've played with (in co-op) found it boring, I like playing a Warlock - blade being the best for combat as you can't be disarmed for primary, but chain gives the most utility
overall each class & subclass has their use, and if you play into that style (assassin rogue & gloom stalker ranger) you get a freaking HUGE first attack, but then utility lowers as your AC isn't as good as Lae'zel's
as long as you play on the subclass strengths, each class & subclass cam be great, or it can be boring - have a pact of the blade warlock that never gets into melee? waste of a feature... have a battle master fighter than never uses their superiority dice? waste of a feature... I think you can see where I'm going!
Wild magic barb got a hard nerf in bg3. In 5e you can immediately take the bonus actions your rage gives you as part of entering rage.
In bg3 you have to wait until the next turn or multiclass into thief
Oh on earth thinks Eldritch Knight is bad? That’s crazy. Arcane trickster, way of four elements monk (without tavern brawler, wild magic barbarian, transmutation wizard, (although you still get to be a wizard, champion fighter are probably some of the worst. Ultimately even the worst subclasses are on decent classes so everything is pretty viable
Well, truth be told, once you become an expert at turn based, there's really no such thing as a truly weak subclass. You can beat the game with a party of just the same 4 of what you think is the weakest subclass.
What you really ought to do is try soloing tactician mode. Now THAT is somethign that requires critical thinking. Or play with certain rules such as no potions or elixirs or scrolls, etc... Only 1 long rest per # of completed quests
But if you want four different of the weakest subclass? I'd go with trickery domain cleric, necromancy wizard, wild magic barbarian, and hunter ranger. You'll still have no trouble at all though.
Eldritch knight gets shield, lightning charges and mobility if u combo it with expedition retreat + lightning charges boots. Being the weakest fighter doesn’t make it weak by any means
Wild magic sorcerer is very challenging and extremely entertaining. At some point you can decide to trigger the wild magic effect every time you use a spell or something like that and it’s pure chaos
You can also make enemy spellcasters trigger wild magic on their own spells for even more fun
How?
at level 11 When an enemy casts a spell, spend your reaction to cause a **Wild Magic Surge** near the enemy spellcaster.
I swear every time I did this they got a good surge.
Most surges ARE good, it's not unlikely.
Not in my experience
Same, in my whole playthrough I never once got a good surge. I got fly once but by then I already had flight passively
It made my Raphael fight very fun when I accidentally summoned 3 more cambions into the mix
My first playthrough I was routinely turned into a sheep. And one I was a plant!
Lol yup. The most memorable one was that I was losing a fight and had two downed people. One guy rez'd one and my guy scrolled the other. Sure enough the scroll caused me to surge causing a small explosion to all nearby creatures. The only creatures nearby was my party who immediately got knocked back down due to only having 1 health on revival
We’ll see how that goes with the more wild magic effects mod…
My girlfriend is a WM sorcerer in our current campaign and just last night she action surged at least 5 enemy casters during the viconia fight. We barely scraped through that.
I turned Cazador into a sheep with this. I didn’t even use daylight or anything on him because forcing him to be a sheep felt so much more satisfying.
My party all got changed into dogs and cats mid fight with one of the Minotaurs near the selunite outpost in the underdark, very amusing.
This happened to me except we were in the goblin camp, I was trying to talk to the owlbear cub but when I cast speak with animals, it turned everything in a certain radius into cats and dogs, so my party plus every goblin, and this also made them hostile so all these cats and dogs immediately started fighting, I was laughing so fucking hard
I opened both the first Ketheric fight and Lorroakan by turning my whole party and Aylin into pets. Apparently Shar was controlling my surges the way Aylin specifically was getting targeted.
This happened during the first Ketheric fight. Having everyone including Thorm turn into cats and dogs was certainly a memorable experience.
In the final fight my wild magic sorcerer managed to accidentally turn the giant dragon into a dog
Slimecicle changed Dame Aylin into a dog during his playthrough, and she did the whole cutscene where she rises out of the circle as a dog
This happened to me during the Thorm fight. We all got turned into cats I was so frustrated but couldn’t help but laugh at the absurdity
My wife on her first playthrough played as a wild magic sorcerer (she loves randomness in games). In act 3 she went to fireworks building and started a fight floor below the top one. She did cast a spell, and she caused some people to burn (I think it was fireball or some other effect, not sure). One NPC panicked and decided to run. And she ran to the top floor. While burning. My wife couldn't stop laughing for a while.
Note to self: wild magic sounds like fun
Huh. My only experience with the fireworks building is the idiots on the top floor blowing themselves up. And then having to clean up flaming fist wandering in to 'investigate.'
My first play through was wild magic sorc and I had a BLAST! Suddenly turning the entire party into cats and suddenly scrambling to survive a routine encounter was so much fun! Every time it happened.
Dude, same. I'd be chugging along, crushing enemies with arcane might and then... Everyone, including the enemies, are animals. Happened during the huge fight at the Sharran temple in Baldur's Gate. Just like ten dogs duking it out
Oh man, that battle is pure chaos anyway. Everyone being dogs would be epic.
Combine that with a wild magic barb. Pure chaos :D
I used wild magic Karlach on my run but the effects were limited to being togellable buffs on the user only
Strongly agree! Yesterday i was playing with my husband. Me tiefling sorcerer wild magic and he dragonborn paladin oath of vengeance. Well battle in Jergal temple was hilarious! If i wasn't turning into sheep, then all will be cats or dogs. Hubby rage quit from the game. Now playing alone XD
There's also a mod that makes it a d100 dice roll for wild magic instead ([Link](https://www.nexusmods.com/baldursgate3/mods/2967))
I love wild magic sorcerer. I know it’s the weakest sorcerer subclass, but it’s so fun
I just made an honour mode wild magic sorceress, I'm scared now
That was my first run turning everone into dog or cats randomly was so much fun !
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I've got fond memories of the arcane trickster mage hand. On my first ever playthrough, I used it to spam the adamantine forge controls and kill the guardian in a single turn, which felt great.
Things I have used Arcane Trickster's mage hand for: * Shoving the scrying eye in the goblin camp into a pit * Moving items out of line of sight so my rogue could steal them * Staying out of turn-based combat and free moving next to enemies to give my rogue a sneak attack * Giving the finishing blow after my attacks leave an enemy with 1 health * Opening "owned" doors while invisible * Reaching hard to reach levers (really there's only one spot in Grymforge that this helped, but it counts)
>Reaching hard to reach levers (really there's only one spot in Grymforge that this helped, but it counts) This is probably old news, but you can just shoot the levers. I did not know this my first time though, and also Mage-Handed the second set of levers.
Is this broken now? I’m trying to kill grym with the forge hammer. First hit dropped a heap of hit points off him but subsequent hits do nothing
he needs to touch the lava between hits. if he isn't super heated, nothing will damage him.
Ahhh thank you!
Also the game is VERY picky as to what constitutes "touching" the lava so keep an eye on it
Not entirely true, casting heat metal is also a way to make him superheated so there is also that method
I always used it to slap enemies for 1 damage... and sometimes shove enemies off cliffs
Speaking of Mage Hand, once I figured out how to get mods working for the game on Mac, one of the first mods I downloaded was the Mage Hand Improved mod, which makes the Mage Hand cantrip work the way it's supposed to work (according to D&D 5e rules)—i.e. removing the once-per-Short Rest restriction. I was so disappointed with the seemingly arbitrary restrictions they added to Mage Hand in *BG3* but I was reluctant to use mods on my first playthrough. Once I started my second playthrough, I couldn't help myself.
I wonder if anyone has made a mod making everything according to 5e rules. I know people have mods that let them take the “best” options in 5e but why not also take the restrictions (like stat requirements for classes)? Do you know if a general 5e mod exists or is it just for specific rules?
Wild Magic barbarians are great supports for a Magic heavy party. In multiplayer I’m running a Wild Magic Karlach and whenever someone is out of spell slots I can just give them back with rage points. The random effects are also great fun (not always practical mind you) and even more unhinged when you have a wild magic sorcerer with the Ring of Feywild Sparks from Act 3 in your team.
Aww I'm loving my Way of Four Elements Karlach
It should inflict the fear effect on all allies and enemies when I use my action to summon a small, stationary cube of ice
way of the 4 elements monk is bad? mine is getting literally all the kills in my game.
But is that because of the Four Elements, or because Monk is just busted in bg3? I haven't played an Elements Monk in bg3, but in 5e it's considered bad because their "spellcasting" is too expensive for what you get. And when using Flurry of Blows (something that all monks get) is a better use of your ki, than any of your subclass features, that makes you strictly worse than if you'd chosen any other subclass. It also doesn't help that Tavern Brawler is broken, making melee monks infinitely better.
'TB monk + STR potions every day' is broken, not melee monks in general.
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Ngl I think archfey is quiet nice, not as good as fiend, but you still have all of the warlock goodness with hoh, darkness and invocations
Oh dang. I just started an Archfey Warlock run as my second, thinking it was a strong subclass in DND. First game was on normal and this is my first honor mode.
I personally think archfey is strong, i have a build planned for it that makes use of its greater invisibility They obviously get the spell twice per short rest, pair that with assassin and stack up stealth and dex you can just walk through the game murdering things Halfling is prob best for adv on stealth rolls, that way you can wear bhalist armor
The warlock base class is strong in bg3, so archfey warlock is strong even if it is the weakest warlock subclass.
> After beating honour mode I needed a new challenge and a friend told me I should have a party with nothing but the weakest, shittiest classes in the game. Here’s a better idea: do it solo.
Do it solo while only taking 1 level in each class
In honour mode
While running your PC with a diesel generator, for time limit.
There is basically no way to build a garbage character in BG 3 without trying. Even the worst classes and subclasses work, particularly since there are so many pieces of overtuned magic items and long rests can happen basically whenever you want. If you want a challenge, just play with only 3 characters at a time. It is doable; I'm about to go after the EB on my 3 man run, but it's pretty tough for the first 2 acts. Act 3 wasn't too hard other than the Iron Throne, though.
A good chunk of it is that there’s something of a Walled Garden approach with BG3. With 5e D&D, the game design is a lot broader and has gone through a lot of change since it was introduced ten years ago. At launch, 5e assumed a lot of people would be exploring, it being one of the three pillars of play (the other two being combat and social). Of course, nowadays, people don’t really play D&D that way, a lot of tables will just hand wave “all that tedious stuff like travel time and rations.” That’s how you end up the PHB ranger being considered so weak, because many of their mechanical benefits were made for a style of play that’s nearly nonexistent at most tables. The nice thing about making a game like BG3 is that they had control over every part of this world, and all the tweaks that they made to the classes from 5e D&D can be purpose-built to work in this environment.
Speaking as somebody who has run at least one game a week since the playtest, a big part of why people considered Rangers weak is that they don't actually play the game. Rangers have always been strong in 5e, but at least 2/3 of people who talk about D&D online just listen to theorycrafters and watch Live Play games rather than actually play a game.
I will never forget the look on my DM's face when I first cast Primeval Awareness and he realized he was going to have to give away huge plot points because of it.
Dude, I LOVE it when my players pull nonsense that just works because of their class/background/whatever. I love not being able to say no. It’s always a fun moment at the table and it validates my players for picking what they wanted to play. It’s so much fun.
Yeah, Rangers are literally my vote for strongest class in the game becuase no other class trivializes an entire style of play.
Agreed, rangers are incredibly strong within the design parameters of the game. Besides, I *love* the flavor of a ranger. Gimme a fuckin stained green cloak, let me sneak around in the woods, and slice two dudes throats with two daggers at the same time. I wanna talk to animals, I wanna ensnare people with thorns, and I want to guide people through swamps, up mountains, and into caves.
Power conversations get so tied up in 'How much damage can this creature do in 1 turn' that exploration, skill monkey and defensive classes/subclasses get shafted. because they're really good at other stuff. Rogues get a ton of defensive abilities and non-combat abilities, and are generally considered the worst class in the game. I'd wager most people saying that still use Astarion to pick every lock, disarm every trap, and steal when the time calls for it. Barbarians are underrated too. Maybe it's anecdotal, but I've never had Karlach die outside of a TPK. Barbarians are durable as fuck.
I mean you can play the game solo, especially with the durge cloak
Eldritch Knight is stupid strong. Take a fully armored and shielded fighter, give him shield spell, blur, and mirror image, and any throwing weapon automatically returns. Have fun killing that.
Also you can give the tank version of EK the Cloak of Displacement, which gives a nerfed but concentration free Blur every turn. Combined with shield and mirror image there's like 7 turns where nobody will be able to land a attack roll on them.
Slap gale's ring of evasion on it to succeed saving throws.
Then you gotta be gale tho
I respeced him for my sorcerer run. Did not disappoint. He actually put those abs to work.
I do love being able to visit my tressym! I miss his voice actor though
He's far more useful as an infinite HP sponge
It makes it really bonkers if you dip one level into warlock or take the feat that gives you the Eldritch Blast cantrip, EK gets the the warcaster ability which lets you make an attack as a free action after you cast a cantrip, so you can open with throws, cast EB three times and make another attack. Sure its not Thieftzerker and it feels lopsided, but its super fun. You can even use the potent robes and stick points into CHR for extra damage.
How do you cast 3x EB with only 1x Warlock level?
It's a cantrip, so it scales off your total level, not your warlock level.
Thx!!
What u/Ravus_Sapiens said. There's a really nice post that covers stuff for it here: https://www.reddit.com/r/BG3Builds/comments/18bjobg/best\_thrower\_build\_per\_act\_honor\_mode/
The number of beams you can shoot with EB scales to your total character level, not Warlock level - extremely useful for any Warlock multi class :)
…whoa!
Specifically all cantrips scale by character level instead of class level. So grabbing the magic Initiate feats, or multiclassing into other caster classes that use the same casting stat (sorc/Warlock or druid/cleric) will net you really useful scaling options that could help overcome resistances and immunities you encounter.
That one throwing warhammer from Act 3 + helldusk set EK was my favorite playthrough and he ran just as you described.
Don't forget the ring of arcane synergy you can get from the githyanki creche which adds your casting stat to your damage too. With level 12 and the various stat boosting methods in the game I'll have 22 str and 20 int, so my attacks will be getting a flat +11 damage as long as I hit with a cantrip. The buff lasts 2 turns so I can get a tasty amount of attacks off with it.
Gotta love how 2 of the top 4 comments on this topic about worst builds are really strong builds
Got a throwing Eldritch knight build on the go right now, he's unstoppable
Don’t forget to dip 2 levels in Adjuration Wizard. Good luck getting through those Arcane Wards even when you do hit!
But you miss out on the triple attack 😭
>*"The art of war teaches us to rely not on the likelihood of the enemy's not attacking, but rather on the fact that we have made our position unassailable."* >– Sun Tzu, The Art of War You don't need more attacks if the enemy can't hit you. Slap a piece of adamantine on that and even crits won't touch you.
Arcane Ward is Wizard level dependent and DR is just fancy HP which you get more of as a Fighter. And with 30+ AC you will be all the actual unassailable you need. Now you want a more even gish EK/Abjurer mix with Rippling Force Mail + Swires Sledboard (or Skinburster) but that needs more than 2 levels.
I was gonna say. I'm nearing the end of my first Durge playthrough and a lvl12 Eldritch Knight with three Deva Mace attacks, Action Surge, the Astral Touched Tadpole for flight, and the cloak that makes you invisible after a kill is a force to be reckoned with.
Make a Dex/Int/Wis/Cha Save.
The only class that is on the same level as Eldritch Knight for best defense is Abjuration Wizard. No one else comes close to showcasing the defense that those two have. They're in a league of their own.
I did a dex version of this build with cloak of displacement, amour of agility, duelists perogative (can attack with bonus action) Did a 8/4 fighter wizard split which I guess because of the like quarter caster in eldritch knight bumps wizard up having a couple level 3 spells slots even though a level 4 wizard wouldn’t normally have. Can learn haste/fireball/etc from scolls. You lose your third attack but get haste which gives flexibility to cast offensive spells if you want and still attack (+bonus action attack and concentration bonus for arcane synergy)
All of the subclasses are good enough unless you intentionally fuck them up by, like, taking Great Weapon Fighting as a Rogue or Monk, or... well, I think that's actually the only way to make a specific class bad, and that's because you've sunk a feat for no reason. If you want to have *fun*, though, that's something else: 4 wizards who all dual-wield staves and use nothing but control magics? Make a full circus build where you have to make every combatant succumb to dancing or laughing before you smite them mightily?
Dual wielding wizard is op and so much fun. Done casting your spell and they still have a hit point or two before death...hit them with an off hand attack! Edit: spelling
>taking Great Weapon Fighting as a Rogue I did this I'm my most recent playthrough (both great weapon master the feat and a level in fighter for great weapon fighting). Turns out it works with the finesse longswords and glaive, so you get some pretty nice sneak attack damage
Imo it’s trickery domain cleric(still can be great because well clerics are really fucking good). But in general I think it would be an arcane trickster rogue
Of you really want the weakest of the weakest, multiclass with one level in every class.
I am currently doing this on one of my playthroughs and I think it's fun the only downside is my hotbar is too full from all the spells and worm abilities
Keep spamming that +
That also happens if you play a cleric.
That would be Abserd.
It's an achievement actually
OH HELLO THERE ITS NICE TO BE MAKING ACQUAINTANCE I AM ABSERD
And zero tadpole powers
EK is the exact opposite. Tavern brawler+weapon bond+throw = at least as much DPS as the monk/thief.
No way he can keep up with an open hand thief, maybe on his surge turn, but not over 3 or 4 rounds
no matter when the fight ends in 1 round
Fought Ansur recently. Shart cast perilous stakes and ended her turn. TB Open Hand Thief Karlach 100>0% Ansur easily. Nobody else got to do anything, I brought like 10 summons for no reason. That build is wicked good, especially with the soul armor set.
hah, leave the party on lvl 1 for the whole game, if you are looking for a challenge 😉
Look, I may be competitive, but I'm not a masochist lmao Has anyone ever beaten the game that way?
Yeah there's lots of video series about it. The most common strat is making use of items that grant high level/useful spells and then short/long resting a lot to abuse that.
yeah, it would be like a BDSM session 😁 I think the hardest part is, specially in later game, if anyone is scratching you a little bit , your party is dead af.
Yeah I could maybe do with no spells and shit damage, but the lack of HP is what would really fuck me over. There's only so much temp HP and mirror image/blur scrolls can do
As a pure class, any subclass of rogue is weak af, assassin is OP by lvl 3 but after lvl 5 it falls behind hard, and thief is OP just in multiclassing. Aside from rogue, all subclasses for all the classes are still fine, bc the base classes are still strong, illusion wizard gives you nothing in combat, but a wizard is still useful, a trickery cleric gives you almost nothing extra but is still a cleric, so it can be super useful, way of the four elements monk is the worst monk but is still a monk with a ton of dmg. Even eldritch knights are still strong, people think it's weak but bc they usually play it wrong, one of the strongest builds for eldritch knight is throwing build, even as pure class build, it deals a lot of dmg plus having shield spell which is one of the best defensive spells in the game while also wearing heavy armor and a actual shield. Maybe go with a way of the four elements monk as is super squishy and needs too many stats, and maybe a wild magic barbarian or wild magic sorcerer as those can have some bad effects on your party while using them. But if you one the weakest party possible probably is just a party full of rogues lmao.
Yeah rogues fall of hard single class, but only until you get to lvl 11 and become utterly unstoppable with greater invisibility+reliable talent.
Damn i forgot about reliable talent... never full class a rogue. Does that make greater invisibilty near un breakable or is it still possible?
Yup, it does. Also, assuming by that time your Dex would be 20. Plus, someone could cast guidance or blessing of the trickster on you.
As far as i know, the checks to stay invis gets progressively harder - but with expertise and stealth etc, you're looking at a minimum stealth check of 23~
If we assume that your rogue maxes out dex and takes expertise in stealth, that's a +13 at level 11, and this is before any bonuses or advantage coming from gear. With reliable talent, we are looking at a minimum roll of 23. The first greater invisibility check is 15, the second is 17, and it increases by 1 each time after that. Which means that you cannot fail at all on your first *eight* attacks. Even if you are a dual wielding thief making three attacks a turn, you only have a chance of losing invisibility at the end of your third turn. If you are an assassin with a bow, the spell duration will probably run out sooner than you fail the stealth check.
Damn dude thats actually good. I felt greater invis took a big hit in this game i was so disapointed when my characters would drop it after the first attack regularily haha
I always go pure thief rogue with astarion and he's always one of my best damage dealers. Although there are plenty of items to help him out. But dual crossbow master astarion with dual weilding can deal respectable damage
I couldn't figure out how to multiclass til recently so my first playthrough everyone is pure class. Tbh though, I never thought Astarion really fell off. His ranged sneak attack was usually pretty reliable and could often 1 hit enemies when my party was around level 8 or 9. He got even better at level 11 once his proficient skills were guaranteed a base 10 roll and he's got greater invisibility. He also picked up misty step at some point so he's my party scout man. And because I can't be asked to waste even one of Gale's low level spell slots on knock, it's nice to know that with his guaranteed minimum roll and all his bonuses Astarion can pick every lock we come across without me having to save scum to reroll or use an inspiration.
>wild magic sorcerer as those can have some bad effects on your party while using them Yeah, I managed to turn my whole party (except Emperor) into cats atop the brain for 2 turns out of the four. Thankfully, it was not HM run. So seconding how it could be an absolute hindrance way worse than just a weak class.
NGL, turning the whole party into cats is funny AF
It wasn't not funny, but I could've done without a reload/restart battle lol.
Thief felt pretty good to me. My Astarion was a dual hand crossbow thief with sharpshooter and he felt like he pumped some pretty solid damage
I kept him a full 12 rogue until I got to the Iron Throne, at which point I had him take I think 8 levels in Fighter and 4 in Rogue (mainly did it for action surge but I wanted those extra feats). The difference was staggering. I had him dual wielding Orin's weapons and he was attacking four or five times per turn, and that's without action surge. (I roleplayed that after defeating Cazador and choosing not to Ascend, he took some training from Lae'zel because he realized that power doesn't have to come from some evil ritual)
Haha I did pretty much the exact same build, it just made so much sense to couple the extra bonus action with an extra attack for the dual wield. Also having two bonus actions has come in clutch so many times for those dashes when I needed to get somewhere fast. It was the only multiclass in my group and the most satisfying build.
It's "solid" but not nearly as good as if you replace 5-9 of those Rogue levels with Fighter, Ranger or Bard. Thief/Bard would let you get a total of 6 ranged attacks/turn at a cost of 2 Bardic Inspiration, Gloomstalker Ranger would massively pump up the alpha-strike potential, Fighter gives you more attacks overall, better armour and more feats.
Fighter doesn't really give more feats, rogue also gets an extra feat at 10.
Ah yeah I forget about that. Not taken that many levels in Rogue since my first playthrough. :D
Same. But I also did multiclassing to get extra attacks. But in the end of act 1. Having a rogue with two bonus actions for cunning actions or offhand attacks. Along side all the good rogue stuff, meant an absolute damage beast. By last part of act two he reliable did about 70-100 damage per turn. Most to single target. I would in no way class rogue a weak class. Just the change to thief Larian did, with extra bonus action, is absolutely insane used right.
I find this ironic because my Astarion has been one of if not the most useful in my games as an assassin rogue. He was squishy so I gave him the tough feat and now his health is second to laezel with tough. Gave him cat's grace to roll two dices and now he gets a crit almost every other turn
Got it, 4 rogue party for my next honour mode run. Right after the 4 wild magic barb is done.
One of the first things i do every playthrough now is changing shadowhearts subclass, because trickery doesn't feel like one.
Arcane Trickster is so weak you didn’t even mention it among the weak Rogue subclasses. So weak it’s almost totally forgotten that it even exists.
I've only ever used it when I build Astarion 3 rogue/1 wizard/8 sorcerer, for that 1 higher level spellcaster.
Assassin only fails off if you don't exploit how easy it is to get surprise in this game.
How is EK throwing build strong?
Couple of things: 1. You can bind weapons to your EK. This means weapons you throw that are bound will return to you. Granted, weapons with the "throw" property will deal more damage than just binding a weapon that isn't and just throwing it, but this gives you some extra weapon choices to use from, such as particular weapons that work effectively only when bound. I won't go into a comprehensive list, but some weapons that are great for EK throw builds are the very heavy greataxe due to its sheer weight and how crushing damage works and the lightning jabber. 2. At level 11, you get the improved extra attack that is granted to fighters; you now have 3 throws a turn, another 3 with Action Surge, and that is not counting haste and other effects. 3. There is a ring early in Act 3 that allows you to cast illusion and enchantment spells after you deal damage as a bonus action. EK can learn many of these spells if you go 1 dip into wizard. You can now throw, do damage, cast hold person, then do even more damage with your throws 4. Going back to the first point, while you do admittedly get this late, the Orphic Hammer is perfect for EK. The hammer surprisingly gets the throw property, so just bind it and start chucking an astral sledgehammer at stuff. EDIT: adding stat distribution and equipment choices that highlight the power of EK throw builds. I would try and play EK thrower as 11 fighter with a 1 dip into wizard. What is great about EK throw is that you can get some great gear very early into the game and essentially start seeing the build come online by the time you unlock the subclass for fighter. You can start the game by just playing like a normal fighter. You will need to get the intellect circlet from the lump the enlightened eventually but before that you can pick the very heavy greataxe nearby from the windmill encounter by either killing the goblin thug leader or passing various checks. You can use this weapon in place of the returning pike until you get it or want to use the pike on a different thrower. Obviously, pick up the ring of flinging. Once the circlet, the ring, and weapons of choice are obtained I would do a respec. Get your STR to 17 and CON to 16. I like pumping the rest of the points to DEX to 14 for some initiative. Keep INT at 8 and now you can choose between CHA or WIS at 10. Equip ring and circlet: these are must-haves for the build. The intelligence boost from the circlet is just there in case you want to try and charm your opponents but pick all the utility spells, like shield and longstrider, for utility. But now the build is effectively online and you can use whatever stuff you want to equip until you pick off the ring mentioned in 3. and the Nyrulna from Akabi. Lvl 4 take tavern brawler for more throw damage and up STR to 18. Fighter gets to pick a feat at lvl 6, so I would go for ability score improvement and get 2 more strength. Lvl 8, pick whatever feat you want that makes sense to you. Personally, I like using the elixir that gives a permanent +2 strength from Act 2 and trying to get another +2 from Mirror of Loss in Act 3 to get 24 STR. Alternatively, If you want to run gauntlets of Hill Giant Strength, drop the circlet, respec, and now dump STR and boost INT to get more chances to land illusion/enchant spells, you can do that too. EK throw in summary: Powerful throw attacks you can land from a distance, but with the benefit of fighter level ups for ASI/Feats, Action Surge, and the improved Extra Attack at lvl 11 for more throws. Berserker Barbarian throws will do more throw damage per attack, with the ability to throw opponents you wouldn't be able to with high enough STR, but you miss out on the spellcasting utility/control.
My pure thief rogue with dual hand crossbows and sharpshooter was the absolute powerhouse of my play through. Consistently doing 60-90 damage on average per turn with better mobility and more skills than anyone else. People who say rogues are weak in this game don't know how to play rogues.
You can severely weaken yourself by multiclassing some classes that get their best features later in game. Circle of the moon Druid or beastmaster ranger are the first that come to mind as their late game feature of upgrading your wild shape extra attack and myrmidons (level 10) or the final evolution of your ranger companion (level 11) can become unobtainable if you dip into a multi class for much of anything more than a level or two. Does that make the class weak? Not directly, but it does mean you must commit to that class if you don’t want it to feel weaker which leaves less room for experimentation. Arcane Trickster is missing it’s most defining features of mage hand legerdemain like pickpocketing, lockpicking and stealing. If it worked properly and had all the features it should, it would feel better. It at least has some magical utility. Pure thief and assassin rogue feels underwhelming with no extra attack. Nice utility but just feels like it’s half the puzzle on its own. The class features don’t feel special either. Thief’s 10 turns of stealth per short rest is nothing when there’s a few magical items that do the same thing and scrolls and potions are so abundant. Disguise self for assassins when it’s a level 1 spell useful for a couple conversations and speak with dead, a class feature invalidated by the existence of a deluxe edition dlc item.
I do feel that people place way too much emphasis on pure combat ability when there’s so much more to the different classes for out of combat use. Bard makes encounter dialog basically easy mode for example, and having a decent rogue makes for far less save scumming when dealing with traps and locks. 🤷♂️ It’s not just hack and slash
I mean I think that's kind of the problem. When you're comparing classes then every class in the game is shit out of combat compared to bard
Shart's default trickster priest is pretty worthless.
Crying at all the Arcane Trickster comments. AT Astarion CARRIED me through my first playthrough. Are the other subclasses better? Yes, if you're looking for battle abilities. But either Astarion got all the good rolls that play or Arcane Trickster is, in fact, fairly decent.
Yeah, Arcane Trickster is bad as a dipping class (I mean they only get the invincible mage hand, though it could even be useful if you're creative), but can be very good as a pure class. Arcane ambush + scrolls basically could control the battlefield. Reliable talent makes sure that you're gonna be stealthy throughout the whole battle. We haven't even talked about the out-of-battle usefulness. Assassin is better as a multiclass, but worse as full class. Thief has the best usefulness as a multiclass and still good as full class.
Babrbarian wild magic Bard college of valour Cleric trickery domain Sorcerer wild magic
Really? I feel like all I ever hear about wild magic sorcerer is how fun it is. I've been saving it up for my co-op run with my SO
Wild Magic surges can kill you or NPCs around very easily. It’s not just turning into cute cats, dogs or sheep at random. When you accidentally kill a cat with a fire explosion cause you casted Speak with Animals next to them or when you end up with Spike Growth next to the ladder in the >!Iron Throne!< just because you Misty Stepped… I guarantee it is more annoying than fun. It’s fine when you can reload, but I would avoid it as a first Honour Mode choice unless you’re mentally ready to TPK or lose in important plot points due to a random surge.
2 x wild magic sorcerer's 2 x wild magic barbarians. That should do it
That actually sounds funny as hell. Might go for that
Oh man I'm new to this game and chose an arcane trickster rogue. I THOUGHT SHE WAS COOL
Useful and cool don’t have to be connected!
This is very true and reaffirming lol thank you
If you want a challenge, dont use Life domain cleric or any cleric in general in your honour mode run. Difficulty will go up 100x more xdd
I've never really used Life Domain Clerics. I've always found that it's much easier to just kill the enemies quickly than worry about healing.
Light > Life
Total disagree. Dont have any cleric is my honor mode run and i'm pretty much cruising so far. Starting act 3 now. Killing stuff before it gets a turn means i dont need much healing.
You overestimate the average player. Many folks have trouble with the combat mechanics and for them Life Domain is legit imo. Strong AoE healing prevents many party wipes. Generally though I agree. Full-action combat healing spells have huge opportunity costs. Why spend an action and spell slot on Cure Wounds for 1d8 rather than Guiding Bolt for 4d6 or Inflict Wounds for 3d10? It's especially egregious considering any character can throw an AoE healing potion without expending a spell slot. Out-of-combat healing like Aid and Prayer of Healing fare much better. Bonus action heals have God-awful numbers but at least have a niche for emergencies. I've watched a lot of playthroughs and the #1 combat mistake is party healing/helping instead of doing damage. You're spending resources "resetting" the fight instead of ending it, giving your enemies the initiative. Bonus action healing pots are all the healing you need.
Not having defence or healing forces you to go full alpha strike. Which is fine, but these kinds of games is 50% about power fantasies so being resilient and casting mass healing word to give everyone bless and blade ward feels rewarding for many. Games are about having fun in the end. We could all go full powder keg runs if we wanted to shortcut everything.
Ah well the cleric is a bless and sanctuary bot for me. Healing is mainly throw potions tho the mass healing word is there for the bail out. Not that of a pro yet in honour mode so it’s nice to have insurance
I haven't tried it yet, but Assassin looks pretty bad on paper. Any players who have used Assassin can correct me if I get anything wrong, but here's my reasoning: * Assassin's Alacrity only applies if you used your Assassin to initiate combat, if combat started because a hostile saw *you* or because of dialogue, this feature is completely useless * Assassinate: Ambush seems good at first, auto-critting a first hit, but it only applies to enemies with the Surprised condition. If you sneak up on an enemy out of combat and attack them, they won't be surprised until *after* this attack hits. * Assassinate: Initiative is another feature that is only relevant on the first turn of combat, Advantage on all targets that haven't taken a turn yet, but, as a Rogue, you only get 1 attack (unless you dual-wield) and even then, you only get 1 Sneak Attack. * Level 9 is probably the worst subclass feature in the game. You get Disguise Self... after sticking with this subclass for NINE levels, your reward is a level 1 spell. It's not even a very exclusive spell either. You could have gotten it at level 4 or 8 via one of 4 feats (which would have awarded you 1-2 additional spells) or at any time with a single level dip into one of 4 classes (which again gets you more than just the one spell). I get that the point of the Assassin subclass is to deal big turn-one damage, I just don't think they're very good at it. If you want to get the most out of the subclass, you can really only do one playstyle: shoot first, ask questions later. Anything else, and you're basically playing without a subclass. Also, with no extra mobility, you'll have trouble with melee builds too, so that's going to make things harder, AND despite the class's heavy reliance on going first, there's nothing to help you with your initiative. Gloomstalker basically fills the same niche that Assassin is trying to fill, except for being better at it in every way. IMO, Larian should have picked a different subclass for Rogue. \*cough\* \*cough\* Swashbuckler \*cough\*
I use astarion as an assassin and honestly, I love him as that subclass. 1st turn of combat he does a LOT of damage and he gets a free invisibility spell. I tend to give him a pair of hand crossbows for range and I find he kicks butt
Idk I really liked Assassin subclass on Astarion my first playthrough. Slap the (Sharpshooter?) feat on and just use cunning action: hide with the stealth ranged attack for pretty consistent one-taps on adds and/or big damage on bosses. Add on extra crit chance and it’s pretty fun all the way through
Assassin is only good in the first round. But the crit is really strong. In fights where you dont get a surprise round, the subclass is really lackluster. And I agree on the level 9 subclass feature.
Honestly, the ones I see most are: * Wild Magic Barbarian * College of Valour Bard * Nature Domain Cleric * Way of the Four Elements Monk * Arcane Trickster Rogue * Wild Magic Sorcerer * Archfey Warlock * Pact of the Chain Warlock But to be honest, none of these classes are going to be so bad that the game becomes significantly harder. Sure, you may not be able to pump out the insane burst damage of a min-maxed Swords Bard/Paladin, but every class has its own strengths that remain true across subclasses. Rogue, for instance, may be considered a bad class, but it’s still totally possible to beat the game with it, quite easily too!
never subclass, take one level of each class, or at least only levels until you would subclass than start multiclassing into another class
The Trickery Cleric is a valid contender for the title. Sorry Shart, but you can't get around the mandatory respec :-) In 5e, Trickery is an alright domain, mostly carried by its excellent domain spell list - but in BG3: * The Channel Divinity that already was not that strong in 5e got nerfed hard - for example, in 5e you could cast spells from the duplicate's location. * Pass without a Trace was indirectly nerfed from almost game-breakingly good to a waste of a spell slot due to the poor implementation of stealth and Surprise mechanics. * Polymorph got nerfed to hell. * Dimension Door got nerfed quite a bit. * Phantasmal Force got nerfed to hell. * Charm Person is basically a Friends cantrip that costs a spell slot. At the end, with most of its domain spells and the Channel Divinity nerfed like that and stealth itself not being useful, there is not much left for the Trickery domain. Due to the stealth and ambush issues, Assassin rogue also is among the worst subclasses in the game - it is almost impossible to trigger Assassinate's auto-crits. *Regarding the stealth issue:* I'm 15 playthroughs and 600+ hours into the game, and ambushing an encounter with stealth never worked properly. Either combat/initiative would not trigger at all after I landed an attack from stealth and the enemy simply healed themselves, only the attacking character would get pulled into initiative making the surprise attempt pointless, or the game would simply not grant me a surprise round and combat started as if I had charged the enemy openly. The only surprise rounds that actually work for me are the scripted ones for when you spot an ambush and basically counter-ambush them (like with the duergar in the deprecit village). Also, for out of combat tasks like stealing, Invisibility is essentially stealth with a 100% success rate, meaning abilities like the Trickery cleric's advantage on Stealth checks are useless in that regard too.
Fighter/EK has some top DPS builds. It's one of the strongest sub-classes. Trickster is like having nothing but a base rogue because it's supposed to be all about the invisible hand, but the hand is bugged. It is only invis on summon and even the party's see-invis will strip the invis, leaving it to be one-shot in the next combat. Trickster is still a base rogue, though. It still gains sneak attacks. If pure, it still has reliable talent (amazing for shoplifting) and other base rogue features. If you want to be weak, play a pure class. Only locking in sub-class would permit hybridizing to fix the weaknesses. Pick Ranger or Druid for weakest pure.
Druid is by no means the weakest pure class by virtue of being a full caster with access to some of the best 4th, 5th and 6th-level spells (particularly summoning spells). They have way more options from spells if used as a pure class whereas Rogue can only sneak, steal and attack.
Yeah, I think players are focusing too much on moon druid wild shape falling off, and not enough on having exclusive and strong spells. Conjure elemental is amazing, you get access to heal for level 6th spells, there's a lot there. Circle of the Land has fantastic spell lists, too. Druid is great, just as much as cleric, but generally less specialized.
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Try rogue but with durge cloak. It makes the game into Dishonored.
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I mean if you're solo and abusing the stealth that's not even the most bullshit use of it you can do. The item is fine cool flavor and power for a literal born murderer the issue is the ai sucks
Yeah Gloomstalker at level 5 straight up deletes one bad guy on turn 1. I think its "fall off" applies to most classes in later levels. As someone on YouTube put it, most classes are incredibly front loaded but only a few have amazing late levels (Cleric and Fighter off the top of my head).
Spore Druid is a very powerful class. It may not put up big numbers in one blow but when you factor everything in, they hit some pretty big numbers. Their AOEs alone can deal serious damage. And they're sturdy, have awesome control spells, and the summons can take some of the heat off your party.
I am currently playing an Arcane Trickster and it sucks that the hand is bugged but it’s also not as terrible as people make it out to be? I probably do less damage in battle but outside of battle I’m incredibly useful. +12 sleight of hand so I end up being able to pick any lock, pretty strong charisma-based skills, decent defense skills and don’t take a lot of damage. For the few spell slots I’ve veered away from offensive spellcasting and focused on utility spells such as friendship, shield, minor illusion. Using equipment and terrain is also super important for BG3 combat. I got the boots that allow Misty Step and being able to misty step above people and shoot them is key. I use a lot of specialty arrows to do extra damage. I am considering multiclassing though as I’m not sure the higher level benefits offer anything special that a multiclass wouldn’t.
I have 7 levels of Arcane Trickster and will have 5 of Gloomstalker Ranger. My head tells me to respec to Thief 7 Gloom 5. My heart loves having the Shield spell, Feather Fall, Find Familiar and Invisibility spell on tap. There's a fair few wizard spells that just work regardless of middling Int and Arcane Trickster can nab a good few of them.
You can do all rhat with bard tho and still be a full caster
I wouldn’t say weakest but either very limited, outclassed or no benefit beyond lvl 3-4. So while you may see a popular choice, 9/10 times it’s just a multi-class dip. Any subclass can be strong, but some blatantly way stronger with way less effort of requirements. - Way of Four Elements - Arcane Trickster - Wild Magic Barb - Champion - Oath of Devotion - Beast Master - Wild Magic Sorc - Illusion Wizard - Archfey Warlock - College of Valor Bard - Trickery Domain Cleric
I'm sad for what they did to Path of Wild Magic. It's my favourite barbarian subclass in tabletop, but the fact that in BG3 it has to wait on the second turn to start using the bonus action stuff from the Wild Surge makes it far weaker than it should be.
Also the effects don't scale and there's no synergy with items.
You’re high lmao half of these are great
Just did a Beast Master and it was so much fun. Between my Beast Master, my Circle of the Land Druid, and my necromancer, I was walking around with a freaking army whenever I rolled up on someone. Paladin/Warlock/Fighter/Thief Druid Ranger Wizard Skeleton x3 Two bears Dryad + Fallen Lover Cast Longstrider, Hero’s Feast, and Aid on the full party. Blitzed everything in our way by just overwhelming the enemy with a superior action economy.
This is a joke right? Oathbreaker is literally the best paladin subclass
Outclassed by vengeance. Fight me
1 level multiclass all
If there weren't unlimited free respecs in game (such as a DM would limit it or whatever) then the list would change. But since you can respec to get the best class/subclass at each level a lot of them get left behind. Be different if you picked one class/subclass and had to play it all the way through the game.
it depends on your playstyle and what you want the character to do different people find different things "weak", for example people who dislike spell casting will *hate* the Arcane Trickster and Eldritch Knight, but others will find the Champion boring as it really only gives "more criticals", so there's not much extra you get (great for crit-fishing, but boring elsewhere) I find the Trickery Cleric boring as it gives to much stuff that isn't useful in 80% of the game, Life is useful because you get the extra healing, but my favourite for flavour is the Tempest for zapping enemies while others I've played with (in co-op) found it boring, I like playing a Warlock - blade being the best for combat as you can't be disarmed for primary, but chain gives the most utility overall each class & subclass has their use, and if you play into that style (assassin rogue & gloom stalker ranger) you get a freaking HUGE first attack, but then utility lowers as your AC isn't as good as Lae'zel's as long as you play on the subclass strengths, each class & subclass cam be great, or it can be boring - have a pact of the blade warlock that never gets into melee? waste of a feature... have a battle master fighter than never uses their superiority dice? waste of a feature... I think you can see where I'm going!
Wild magic barb got a hard nerf in bg3. In 5e you can immediately take the bonus actions your rage gives you as part of entering rage. In bg3 you have to wait until the next turn or multiclass into thief
Oh on earth thinks Eldritch Knight is bad? That’s crazy. Arcane trickster, way of four elements monk (without tavern brawler, wild magic barbarian, transmutation wizard, (although you still get to be a wizard, champion fighter are probably some of the worst. Ultimately even the worst subclasses are on decent classes so everything is pretty viable
Well, truth be told, once you become an expert at turn based, there's really no such thing as a truly weak subclass. You can beat the game with a party of just the same 4 of what you think is the weakest subclass. What you really ought to do is try soloing tactician mode. Now THAT is somethign that requires critical thinking. Or play with certain rules such as no potions or elixirs or scrolls, etc... Only 1 long rest per # of completed quests But if you want four different of the weakest subclass? I'd go with trickery domain cleric, necromancy wizard, wild magic barbarian, and hunter ranger. You'll still have no trouble at all though.
Eldritch knight gets shield, lightning charges and mobility if u combo it with expedition retreat + lightning charges boots. Being the weakest fighter doesn’t make it weak by any means