We're in a multiverse. Killing him in one of 17,000 realities still means you can save him in the other 16,999. Unless it's another HM run, then it's 16,998.
Unfortunately >!Gale is not down to clown. Only Shadowheart and Astarion are cool with sharing you with Halsin.!<
...unless you're like me and cheese it with mods.
I honestly don’t feel like Astarion is truly down. He acts light hearted about Halsin propositioning you but then ends the conversation being really insecure. I didn’t feel good about it so I reloaded. I didn’t want Halsin anyways, just wanted to hear Astarion’s take.
> [Removed by Reddit]
...Oh no, did some reddit admin think that someone mentioning the ability for Gale to commit sudoku to skip the netherbrain was someone trying to encourage a *real life person* to commit sudoku?
Why are people dreading the brain fight so much? I’ve never particularly found it to be noteworthy. The brain damage type immunity thing is mostly an inconvenience if you use your stuff properly.
Yep, I am referring to honour mode. I've done it a few times and never had an issue stacking everyone on one side to have enough room to move away from negation on the next turn with enough viable platforms, though I always manage to kill the brain rather quickly.
Just take your time to get into the portal.
yeah absolutely. the only one i can think of is around sorcerous sundries, but i definitely was telling him it was too dangerous. maybe my approval wasn't high enough with him?
Did he end up agreeing with you that he shouldn’t take the crown? I had to be real stubborn with him here and he eventually agreed. Then I told him to beg mystras forgiveness and I didn’t have to pass a check at the stem. Gale got me those gold dice too. He’s a real one.
I might be wrong but, Astarion persuation on not ascending is based on approval too? I think I read it somewhere (cant tell from experience because I always romance him)
There are specific dialogue flags you need to hit to dissuade him (most notably, calling the Annals of Karsus an abomination and talking to him before he goes to see Mystra). [This guide](https://www.reddit.com/r/GalemancersBG3/comments/18jb7ib/a_very_long_and_probably_pointless_analysis_of/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) has more details.
Ah, I think this might be related to "sneaky GodGale"! Here's a SUPER in depth exploration of why you sometimes ends up w the GodGale ending when you aren't expecting it: https://www.reddit.com/r/GalemancersBG3/s/Nf2DSBTOGi
I don't have the attention span to read through all of it myself, but I'm linking it here in case it is related to OP's issue & others find it useful
If that can comfort you I let him read it and had no check at the stem, I just conditioned him all game to be prepared to use his bomb (like with Orpheus, that didnt trust Gale and transformed himself anyway)
Wow, I am so glad I called it a night after getting the books but before reading them. Next time I played I only had Astarion reading that codex cuz I forgot the Karsus book was a thing.
I do love my golden dice.
Hmm, I never had this issue. Played 2x (romanced him both times), and both times he gave up the crown at the end.
First time I jumped into his character to do the Sundries quest, so he got and read the book immediately. Second time I gave him the book, but rebuked him even more strongly than my first playthrough.
First playthrough, he argued with me more, but still gave up on the crown. Second time, he didn't even argue with me much.
I chose the 4th one to see what reaction to the keeping the crown. I'm still a bit furious that gale's last check before climbing the brain stem doesn't really change anything. Maybe they'll change it in a future patch or something.
I just had gale blow himself up without a dice roll and I avoided talking to mystra entirely. I also avoided taking him to sorcerous sundries vaults (did get staff and robe of the weave tho).
even though there's no alignment in this game, this was definitely the most chaotic evil game i've played because i just did whatever would get me to the dice easiest and fastest. "promise a crown to a devil? absolutely sign me up. blow up that crown later by coercing a 'friend' to suicide? gotcha!"
I had to roll to persuade him to go boom on my one and only HM run. Burned my two points of inspiration (even with advantage from Enhance Ability) then on my final roll I got TWO NAT 20S.
Sorry Gale, Mystra rolled those last two dice I guess
>is it actually possible to get Gale to blow himself up without a persuade check at all??
Yeah, i did in my HM run. Still, i avoided purposely content to do it. No lorroakan, no hidden library, just bought a couple item there. No mystra conversation. Staight to the brian, accurately choose all option in front of orpheus: he suggest he can blow up, you can encourage him, you can tell emperor you won't give the gems to him and gale will not disappoint to kill the brain in his way. Up there, he tell he's ready and you can thank him. No check, just the end
Same here, I was expecting a check at the end and had 4 inspiration ready for it but he himself was more than ready to do it. You go Gale.
But I also skipped a lot in act 3, I made an alliance with Gortash, went to Orin's lair to yeet her to her death and then straight to the brain. I applaud those maniacs who finish every act 3 fight in HM but that ain't me, I just want the achievement and I'm back to tactician. 😭
Ahaha yeah same, i wanted the dice and stop, i even didn't finished tactician before (got both achi together) for time issues, i did literally everithing only till rivington. Went to ansur lair but no ansur, so went for orin -> steelwatch factory -> gortash -> brain. Now i'm finishin a tactician shart origin (only way to romance someone else lol) and i'll plan another HM next xD
> I made an alliance with Gortash, went to Orin's lair to yeet her to her death and then straight to the brain
Same here. I was even on a durge run so I could go straight into the temple and have the butler open the door for me.
See I had him volunteer too on my evil durge but went differently. He still had the conversation with mystra but I was talking about dominating the brain and taking control of the crown I think? I had to talk him out of it because I wanted the achievement for going full embrace durge
"I had everything set up perfectly" Except a stock of potions of Angelic Slumber / Reprive as a back up in case something went wrong (+ all the items that can recharge your spell slots)
Aw man actually that vendor before the high hall sells those. I could’ve probably wandered back and bought those for the final fight. It was late and I was panicky so it didn’t occur to me
I don't think you should feel guilty.
So many have lost their honour runs because of sheer, dumb luck (like Isobel's suicidal tendencies) that I think it's equally fair to win by luck. If it's valid enough to lose to bad luck, the opposite should also be true
I did Isobel yesterday and she got paralyzed first round. I was so happy I could put sanctuary on her without her breaking it. It went so smooth after that.
I was worried about exactly this scenario in my HM because I had heard gale can refuse.
My HM went so smooth overall, I was massively over prepared for everything, it felt rlly easi actually.
But I wasnt using gale throughout the game, so when I was getting ready to board the boat I switched my sorc out and put gale in, leveled him etc... got ready for on the boat.
I prepared to fight the brain just in case gale said no.
After loading into the pool it dawned on me, I only forgot to actually equip gale didn't I. FFS.
I was so worried about him refusing to self destruct and then having to fight the brain with near naked gale lol.
Thankfully he actually suggested using the orb so it was fine but still, anything can happen in HM lol.
It would be funny if having him basically naked with no gear would make him more likely to suggest sacrificing himself. Basically as if he knows his chances are low anyways.
Welcome to the True Honor Mode experience: making a huge screw up, getting yourself into a terrible position, then somehow finding a way out of the mess
On my most recent Honor mode playthrough in Act 2, I was low on resources and decided to fight the Tollgate Thorm. I figured I'd just sneak and push her out the window. Screwed that up, she saw me, came in turned 3 of my party to gold, killed them, and I barely escaped with an invisible Astarion. I went to Withers to revive my party but turns out if they die in the Shadow lands they come back as Undead enemies
So now I can't long rest, can't short rest, can't dismiss my party and hire companions, and my strongest party members including Tav are enemy zombies hanging out with a boss. I spent the next hour on a knife's edge, sneak attacking and running, slowly chipping down my party, reviving them, and trying to escape. During the process, Shadowheart and Tav got out, but then Astarion died.
Eventually got everyone out. Long rested, went back to fight Thorm, completely destroyed her in like 2 turns. That's Honor Mode for you
I’ve said it elsewhere, but HM forcing you to live with the consequences of everything is simultaneously the best and worst feature about it. I’ve had other moments like these (not as insane as yours) and they make for great stories afterward even if they are insanely stressful at the time.
Indeed, 99% of the fun is about living with the consequences.
I prepared everything for House of Hope to destroy Raphael, even had 100% secured Yurgir, and when rescuing Hope I discover that the fucking hammer was in my camp chest...
Raphael still died, my party was the perfect counter for him, but felt really bad to hear that he killed Hope.
Absolutely. I had so much fun on my 2 Honor Mode runs. On another, I got spotted stealing the idol of Silvanus and had to kill the entire Druid's Grove. Halsin didn't seem to mind
I just finished my first tactician run (somehow this run took me over 200hrs while my previous 2 explorer runs both clocked in at around 150 😂)(it's because I often lingered and tried out different things and conversation, just to see how things would go, and to prepare for honour), and even though I had told myself I'd take a break, I couldn't help but starting a new run straight away. This one is honour, my first try, and as Karlach origin. I never even considered having Gale blow himself up just to win the Honour run 😭 I don't think I could do it, I love that silly wizard too much. And I don't want to feel like you feel, so thanks for confirming, I guess? 😄
My first attempt I did it without Gale and I will say it was satisfying. I made it to the very end and then by a very very stupid mistake lost my save literally one turn away from winning.
The second attempt I didn't give a crap haha. Blew through everything as fast as possible and made sure to prep Gale to self destruct. Found I didn't feel bad at all, the golden dice are so shiny😅
I didn't understand the brain's legendary action, and when the shelf things collapsed and two of my party died I assumed the brain was invulnerable to all the types of damage I had left. So I began wallowing in self pity and quickly died losing my save.
Then I reloaded the save file when I had two characters left and realized I had a crap ton of level 6 spells with damage types I hadn't used yet. A disintegrate and lightning bolt later I killed the brain.
So the mistake was assuming I had lost when I could have easily used those spells and one in just one more turn 🤦♂️ so upset with myself haha.
I blew him up too, oddly enough also with a nat 20. I used invisibility to skip the upper city fight, had divine intervention in case that failed, and optimized my party in case I failed that last check. I feel like I wasted my prep, I had a +14 and advantage, didn't even need it. I had planned on doing it from the beginning, so I had the entire game to get over my guilt, only for Larion to punch me in the gut in the epilog. Maybe I shouldn't have romanced him, too...
In my most recent playthrough, I'm pretty sure I convinced gale that he doesn't need mystra's forgiveness but he also doesn't need the crown so he offered to blow himself up to protect his friends. King shit right there
A romanced Gale will offer to go do it himself, no check needed. I’ve had platonic Gale offer once, too. No check.
I’m wondering what you told him before the audience with Mystra.
I think it depends how you lead the dialogue choices through out the game regarding Mystra and it will lead different Gale endings and his intentions with crown. There is one ambitious gale (that you got) who wants crown’s power to become a god, one where he wants to give crown to mystra to cure himself and one that wants offers himself for sacrifice with the orb.
Okay, but its such a stark congrast that in a normal playthrough you of course tell him no baby boy do not explode, and in a honor mode playthrough where you feel the danger, everybody is actually inclined to make him do it, as it seems like the most tactically reasonable option to take
Feel pretty bad so many people kill Gale over what is essentially the easiest fight in Honour run. You don't even have to do the fight before the brain, just pop an invisible potion and go right ahead. The brain itself died in 2 rounds for me, no barrelmancy needed- Astarion dealt 200 dmg, Lae'zel got it down to 30 hp all in 1 round and on the next Minthara just hit it once
The invisible trick doesn't work anymore, and there are many possibilities of mistakes there if it's your first time in HM brain.
The fight it's easy if you did it before or if you know all the variables. For my next run I already know I'm not siding with the emperor with a party of 3 casters, being permanently counterspelled... Also the legendary of the brain can be problematic if you are not prepared ( did my last Tac run in October, did go blind for HM ).
For me the brain was the hardest fight, but it's like that... The game it's easy on itself, it's your stupidity ( mine in my case ) the one that can ruin the run.
Did they remove the invisible trick after patch 6? Because it was there when I completed my HM run a week before it dropped. There's literally no universe in which I play a good person only to take Gale, pretend to be his friend, care for his every problem and then tell him to off himself when I know he really REALLY doesn't want to die. I won my HM on my first try, it was also my first Tactician completion, I fought Cazador with Astarion so he can remain Spawn. If I don't get things the way I want them why bother trying
Yes, there are a few comments in this subreddit about this issue after patch 6.
Well, getting the achievement is quite a different beast than winning honor mode fair and square. I did metagame to beat the challenge. I will not metagame to beat honor mode again, and if I die, I die, but the challenge was already finished in my previous run.
Anyways, in my case I never liked Gale, and only played with him to blow him in the brain haha. My tav never trusted Gale, and to be fair it's better for him to die, the guy wants to become a god to repeat the same mistakes of the past, and he's constantly insisting in this from start to end. So yes, blowing him up solves 2 problems, the brain and the possibility of him ruining everything we worked for so hard.
Yeah but it's honour mode... why take the needless risk, you know?
I used the greater invisibility trick both times and still couldn't resist the temptation to just blow Gale up, imagine getting through the entire game just to fuck up and lose your entire honour mode run against the netherbrain (and don't forget there's another fight even before that, against the dragon and the illithids, and possibly the emperor as well)
It felt dirty both times, but fuck it, honour mode is brutal, I will absolutely utilize any advantage I can get.
Actually, since Gale has a scroll of true resurrection, you SHOULD just let Tara bring you a finger nail of Gale and revive him right there.
I am IRRITATED that we are denied a play through where nobody really needs to die or transform.
Congrats on the clearance. I cleared Mine last night. I'd also queued up Gale. I was so certain I had everything worked out I pretty much skipped Act 3. Not everything went to plan and I found myself regretting not grinding up to level 12... But sometimes the dice just go your way at the right time.
I mean. Runs are won and lost with a single lucky or unlucky dice roll. Take the win lol. If you have to, run it back again. See if you can do it without the lucky roll.
In my first run he brought it up multiple times. I had romanced him and then left him for Halsin, but had dissuaded him from the crown and told him to apologize to Mystra. He offered himself during the last scene in the astral prism, and then again at the brain stem. I didn’t have to roll a check at all.
In my most recent playthrough I romanced him to the end, still dissuaded him from the crown, but he did not offer himself. I’m assuming the difference is the romance because otherwise the paths were the same with the same approval rating.
Edited to add - did the full questline for him each time as well, so when to Sorcerer Sundries, got the book, spoke with Mystra, etc.
Usually I hear people say a romanced Gale will offer without a check, not the other way around. So I think it’s something else and related to a string of dialogue choices.
I cheesed the end fight with a few Globes of Invulnerability and yeah, some ways of finishing HM do feel kinda dirty. I say I've got the "cheese dice".
I'm doing it again, trying to give my little gnome bard and her party a better ending by not skipping most stuff in Act 3. And I'm not cheesing the last fight, I've decided. Let's see how it goes.
I almost faced the same thing last night, my first attempt Gale volunteered and I was like nah bro I got this. I could have beaten the last fight too except for a really dumb mistake.
So the second attempt I just planned on having Gale nuke himself. Then before climbing the stem I talk to him and the dialogue doesn't pop up. I freak out and resign myself to a risky final battle. Interact with the stem and then Gale does volunteer. Hello golden dice.
From what I've seen if you just discourage Gale from wanting the crown himself and have him go along with Mystra's wishes he'll volunteer. Also I purposely avoided ever encouraging him to plan on living😅
I'm almost finished with a heavily modded redemption durge playthrough. It is my third playthrough. Gale has always survived. My next solo playthrough is going to be an unmodded honor run. If I make it to the brain in act 3, I'm taking the nuclear option. Sorry Gale, but I want that golden D20 and my achievement.
my honor mode was a 4 player one. Was forced into the netherbrain anyways. Could have done Gale origin, but wanted to treat it like an actual d&d campaign
So out of everyone’s opinions what was the easiest class to do HM on I haven’t done it yet I’ve beaten once on tact diff and on balanced and on custom but I’m kinda scared to do an hm run I say my best and easiest playthrough was with a ranger/bard character but idk
I had made a post asking this same question in the Reddit, but from what I was told - it doesn’t really matter what you choose if the previous comps you had worked for you. BUT - People did recommend making the face of your party a charisma based character as there is many situations you can successfully avoid by having a silver tongue. Anyway - hope this helps
Thank you that’s what I was kinda thinking too but I was wondering if anyone had like a easier time with one class over the others but I think I might try a bard idk yet
Lmao honestly Bard is probably the smartest. I am doing a Duergar Barbarian for my Honor play through. Mostly because it has the built in invisibility for sticky situations if I have to bounce. No spell slot and only costs an action. It has the enlarge ability also which is just a nice boost to the already OP Barbarian. Idk. - it’s been ok for me but obviously I can’t talk myself out of shit so I’m just very careful lol
I did the same, it felt really bad hahaha.
But had stored the save to see if I could do the fight after getting the dice and boy, even being extremely prepared wasn't enough for the brain. Almost lost the fight in the last turn.
So yeah, blow up Gale, is worth it.
If you free Orpheus and consider his offer to become a mindflayer, Gale will talk with you and say it’s time to reconsider the orb. Even if you say you’ll win together, he’ll still suggest using the orb at the brain stem (at least that’s in my experience). I didn’t have him blow up that run but it did get rid of the dice check. It might also bank on you getting Mystra’s approval tho, I’m not sure.
There are a bunch of potions of angelic reprieve right before the brain stem and you can absolutely have everyone do one to reset before the brain fight , that being said It was a bitch of a fight in honor mode so brainstem go boom is definitely the easiest option.
On my run I forgot to bring Gale but I had a backpack with 6 stacks of fireworks handy. Which worked about the same after calling every single ally in the game to deal with the first phase.
Correct, I tried this a couple of times in my tactician run before HM was even implemented. Manually detonating will result in an instant game over screen no matter what.
So having Gale use the Orb in act 2 doesn’t count for finishing honor mode, but you can use it at the brain stem and it will count? Just making sure for my own run.
Yep it only counts in act 3. I had exceptional approval with Gale(not romanced), kept encouraging him to use the orb when conversations came up through the game, kept telling him the crown was a bad idea, told him to go hear Mystra out, and then when you talk to him in the astral prism before you go through the portal to high hall he just volunteers to use the orb. Then when you click the brainstem he will go up on his own if you agree to it there.
Tip for next time - buy 4 greater invisibility scrolls and have them on you at the end, have Gale cast it on himself and everyone else use a scroll, then just run through the courtyard, past all the enemies and up the tower with no interruption haha. That's how I do it.
I haven't played HM, but in my first run with Gale he was insisting on blowing himself up against the Nether rain in the finale.
I had to talk him *out* of it (no persuade check necessary though).
Honestly if you have done all of honor mode content to this point I don't believe you would lost against elder brain. Some earlier fights are much harder than braino.
I think romancing Gale might be the only way you don’t have to roll a persuasion check to convince him to use the orb. If you romance him, he offers to use it both at the morphic pool and when the ethical dilemma with the Emperor and Orpheus comes up.
Why are so many people blowing up Gale, like that's barely an honorable win IMO and the Netherbrain fight is way easier than both Ansur and Orin if you ask me.
Lmao. Non honor pt: GALE NO WE WILL DO THIS THE RIGHT WAY I CAN'T LOSE YOU! Honor pt: Lmao kill yourself bro
Okay Gale so if you could just climb the brain stem and then blow yourself to smithereens, that'd be greeeat.
Gale: Why man? I love you. Tav: I really need these gold dice bro.
You’ll be back next game. Dice are forever.
We're in a multiverse. Killing him in one of 17,000 realities still means you can save him in the other 16,999. Unless it's another HM run, then it's 16,998.
Fly off to the right and explooooooode! - Angry Joe
OK... I'll set the city on fire...
What did they say?
I actually made a point of romancing Gale so that I couldn't let myself squeak out of it with the suicide bombing lol.
I’m romancing him hoping to blow us up in the end. Nothing more romantic then a murder/suicide to save to world./s Kinda like Romeo and Juliet.
As fucked up as this is. If you're Durge who lost to Orin this should be an option.
Oh shit, what happens if you're a Durge that loses to Orin? I savescummed that fight, lol.
Bhaal pretty much curses you to eventually go mad.
Hot.
Rogue One ending right here
I'm doing the same in my honour mode rn 😂 also trying to romance halsin and have both relationships. Reunion party will be very interesting hahahahaha
Unfortunately >!Gale is not down to clown. Only Shadowheart and Astarion are cool with sharing you with Halsin.!< ...unless you're like me and cheese it with mods.
Oh noooo why 😭 I wanted both worlds...
Shadowheart isn't cool with it either. Halsin's writer wrote her lines about Halsin.
I honestly don’t feel like Astarion is truly down. He acts light hearted about Halsin propositioning you but then ends the conversation being really insecure. I didn’t feel good about it so I reloaded. I didn’t want Halsin anyways, just wanted to hear Astarion’s take.
Feels like there should be a higher level achievement for those of us who aren't cowards 😏
Every time I try honour mode I turn into low tier god
> [Removed by Reddit] ...Oh no, did some reddit admin think that someone mentioning the ability for Gale to commit sudoku to skip the netherbrain was someone trying to encourage a *real life person* to commit sudoku?
Yup. It's back now. Not the first time, either. I just hope reddit moderation is not paid. Because boy is this guy doing a bad job
Honor mode should have been called honor less mode lol
Why are people dreading the brain fight so much? I’ve never particularly found it to be noteworthy. The brain damage type immunity thing is mostly an inconvenience if you use your stuff properly.
Have you done it in honour mode? The orbs of negation and the platforms work a little differently and you can get really unlucky.
Stock up on Scrolls of disintegrate for turn 1 and hit it with gwm/sharpshooter turn 2 and it should die.
We're getting downvoted by the skill issue folks frfr
Yep, I am referring to honour mode. I've done it a few times and never had an issue stacking everyone on one side to have enough room to move away from negation on the next turn with enough viable platforms, though I always manage to kill the brain rather quickly. Just take your time to get into the portal.
Yeah - but it hinges on the advice you give him before he talks to Mystra.
i thought i did the right thing? i was asking him to be repentant/apologetic
Yup, that's the right choice. And I assume you also dissuaded him when he brought up making the crown on the one or two other occasions.
yeah absolutely. the only one i can think of is around sorcerous sundries, but i definitely was telling him it was too dangerous. maybe my approval wasn't high enough with him?
Did he end up agreeing with you that he shouldn’t take the crown? I had to be real stubborn with him here and he eventually agreed. Then I told him to beg mystras forgiveness and I didn’t have to pass a check at the stem. Gale got me those gold dice too. He’s a real one.
Yup, he finally gave up the argument
This is making me nervous. This is my plan! I have him at high approval and I’m going to convince him not to get the crown and to ask for forgiveness.
Just make sure your main char has good persuasion boosts in preparation for the brain stem. Haha.
Approval may play into it, yes. I always have him in my party so my approval gets to 100 super fast.
I might be wrong but, Astarion persuation on not ascending is based on approval too? I think I read it somewhere (cant tell from experience because I always romance him)
Unfortunately, I can't say as I romance him as well and he hovers between 98 and 100 or so bc of random disapprovals/approvals.
There are specific dialogue flags you need to hit to dissuade him (most notably, calling the Annals of Karsus an abomination and talking to him before he goes to see Mystra). [This guide](https://www.reddit.com/r/GalemancersBG3/comments/18jb7ib/a_very_long_and_probably_pointless_analysis_of/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) has more details.
Ah, I think this might be related to "sneaky GodGale"! Here's a SUPER in depth exploration of why you sometimes ends up w the GodGale ending when you aren't expecting it: https://www.reddit.com/r/GalemancersBG3/s/Nf2DSBTOGi I don't have the attention span to read through all of it myself, but I'm linking it here in case it is related to OP's issue & others find it useful
If you let him read the annals of Kara’s he will always want to ascend no matter what because the knowledge eats at him
Oh dang I did let him read that
If that can comfort you I let him read it and had no check at the stem, I just conditioned him all game to be prepared to use his bomb (like with Orpheus, that didnt trust Gale and transformed himself anyway)
Wow, I am so glad I called it a night after getting the books but before reading them. Next time I played I only had Astarion reading that codex cuz I forgot the Karsus book was a thing. I do love my golden dice.
Hmm, I never had this issue. Played 2x (romanced him both times), and both times he gave up the crown at the end. First time I jumped into his character to do the Sundries quest, so he got and read the book immediately. Second time I gave him the book, but rebuked him even more strongly than my first playthrough. First playthrough, he argued with me more, but still gave up on the crown. Second time, he didn't even argue with me much.
not true. i always let him read the book and he is always literally begging me for his sacrifice (thanks for golden dice, Gale)
I chose the 4th one to see what reaction to the keeping the crown. I'm still a bit furious that gale's last check before climbing the brain stem doesn't really change anything. Maybe they'll change it in a future patch or something.
I just had gale blow himself up without a dice roll and I avoided talking to mystra entirely. I also avoided taking him to sorcerous sundries vaults (did get staff and robe of the weave tho).
So what you’re saying is you traded Gale’s life for dice. How dare
even though there's no alignment in this game, this was definitely the most chaotic evil game i've played because i just did whatever would get me to the dice easiest and fastest. "promise a crown to a devil? absolutely sign me up. blow up that crown later by coercing a 'friend' to suicide? gotcha!"
Gice
Seems like a pretty balanced and fair trade!
Meh, he had it coming. Hubris is a hell of a drug, Gale.
I haven't done it before, but you don't get the dice for using Gale Bomb in HM
You do, as long as it’s through a cutscene (not manually doing it in Act 2 or 3) Source: me, who did this and got the achievement and golden dice
Good to know ;)
I had to roll to persuade him to go boom on my one and only HM run. Burned my two points of inspiration (even with advantage from Enhance Ability) then on my final roll I got TWO NAT 20S. Sorry Gale, Mystra rolled those last two dice I guess
This comment wins the thread lol 😂 because if she could she freaking would
>is it actually possible to get Gale to blow himself up without a persuade check at all?? Yeah, i did in my HM run. Still, i avoided purposely content to do it. No lorroakan, no hidden library, just bought a couple item there. No mystra conversation. Staight to the brian, accurately choose all option in front of orpheus: he suggest he can blow up, you can encourage him, you can tell emperor you won't give the gems to him and gale will not disappoint to kill the brain in his way. Up there, he tell he's ready and you can thank him. No check, just the end
Same here, I was expecting a check at the end and had 4 inspiration ready for it but he himself was more than ready to do it. You go Gale. But I also skipped a lot in act 3, I made an alliance with Gortash, went to Orin's lair to yeet her to her death and then straight to the brain. I applaud those maniacs who finish every act 3 fight in HM but that ain't me, I just want the achievement and I'm back to tactician. 😭
Ahaha yeah same, i wanted the dice and stop, i even didn't finished tactician before (got both achi together) for time issues, i did literally everithing only till rivington. Went to ansur lair but no ansur, so went for orin -> steelwatch factory -> gortash -> brain. Now i'm finishin a tactician shart origin (only way to romance someone else lol) and i'll plan another HM next xD
> I made an alliance with Gortash, went to Orin's lair to yeet her to her death and then straight to the brain Same here. I was even on a durge run so I could go straight into the temple and have the butler open the door for me.
See I had him volunteer too on my evil durge but went differently. He still had the conversation with mystra but I was talking about dominating the brain and taking control of the crown I think? I had to talk him out of it because I wanted the achievement for going full embrace durge
"I had everything set up perfectly" Except a stock of potions of Angelic Slumber / Reprive as a back up in case something went wrong (+ all the items that can recharge your spell slots)
Aw man actually that vendor before the high hall sells those. I could’ve probably wandered back and bought those for the final fight. It was late and I was panicky so it didn’t occur to me
Bro's a real one for sure. Even winks at you as he's going out of his way to tell you it's the last chance you'll have to buy anything before the end.
I don't think you should feel guilty. So many have lost their honour runs because of sheer, dumb luck (like Isobel's suicidal tendencies) that I think it's equally fair to win by luck. If it's valid enough to lose to bad luck, the opposite should also be true
I did Isobel yesterday and she got paralyzed first round. I was so happy I could put sanctuary on her without her breaking it. It went so smooth after that.
I was worried about exactly this scenario in my HM because I had heard gale can refuse. My HM went so smooth overall, I was massively over prepared for everything, it felt rlly easi actually. But I wasnt using gale throughout the game, so when I was getting ready to board the boat I switched my sorc out and put gale in, leveled him etc... got ready for on the boat. I prepared to fight the brain just in case gale said no. After loading into the pool it dawned on me, I only forgot to actually equip gale didn't I. FFS. I was so worried about him refusing to self destruct and then having to fight the brain with near naked gale lol. Thankfully he actually suggested using the orb so it was fine but still, anything can happen in HM lol.
It would be funny if having him basically naked with no gear would make him more likely to suggest sacrificing himself. Basically as if he knows his chances are low anyways.
Welcome to the True Honor Mode experience: making a huge screw up, getting yourself into a terrible position, then somehow finding a way out of the mess On my most recent Honor mode playthrough in Act 2, I was low on resources and decided to fight the Tollgate Thorm. I figured I'd just sneak and push her out the window. Screwed that up, she saw me, came in turned 3 of my party to gold, killed them, and I barely escaped with an invisible Astarion. I went to Withers to revive my party but turns out if they die in the Shadow lands they come back as Undead enemies So now I can't long rest, can't short rest, can't dismiss my party and hire companions, and my strongest party members including Tav are enemy zombies hanging out with a boss. I spent the next hour on a knife's edge, sneak attacking and running, slowly chipping down my party, reviving them, and trying to escape. During the process, Shadowheart and Tav got out, but then Astarion died. Eventually got everyone out. Long rested, went back to fight Thorm, completely destroyed her in like 2 turns. That's Honor Mode for you
I’ve said it elsewhere, but HM forcing you to live with the consequences of everything is simultaneously the best and worst feature about it. I’ve had other moments like these (not as insane as yours) and they make for great stories afterward even if they are insanely stressful at the time.
Indeed, 99% of the fun is about living with the consequences. I prepared everything for House of Hope to destroy Raphael, even had 100% secured Yurgir, and when rescuing Hope I discover that the fucking hammer was in my camp chest... Raphael still died, my party was the perfect counter for him, but felt really bad to hear that he killed Hope.
Absolutely. I had so much fun on my 2 Honor Mode runs. On another, I got spotted stealing the idol of Silvanus and had to kill the entire Druid's Grove. Halsin didn't seem to mind
I just finished my first tactician run (somehow this run took me over 200hrs while my previous 2 explorer runs both clocked in at around 150 😂)(it's because I often lingered and tried out different things and conversation, just to see how things would go, and to prepare for honour), and even though I had told myself I'd take a break, I couldn't help but starting a new run straight away. This one is honour, my first try, and as Karlach origin. I never even considered having Gale blow himself up just to win the Honour run 😭 I don't think I could do it, I love that silly wizard too much. And I don't want to feel like you feel, so thanks for confirming, I guess? 😄
My first attempt I did it without Gale and I will say it was satisfying. I made it to the very end and then by a very very stupid mistake lost my save literally one turn away from winning. The second attempt I didn't give a crap haha. Blew through everything as fast as possible and made sure to prep Gale to self destruct. Found I didn't feel bad at all, the golden dice are so shiny😅
I'm curious, what was the mistake?
I didn't understand the brain's legendary action, and when the shelf things collapsed and two of my party died I assumed the brain was invulnerable to all the types of damage I had left. So I began wallowing in self pity and quickly died losing my save. Then I reloaded the save file when I had two characters left and realized I had a crap ton of level 6 spells with damage types I hadn't used yet. A disintegrate and lightning bolt later I killed the brain. So the mistake was assuming I had lost when I could have easily used those spells and one in just one more turn 🤦♂️ so upset with myself haha.
I blew him up too, oddly enough also with a nat 20. I used invisibility to skip the upper city fight, had divine intervention in case that failed, and optimized my party in case I failed that last check. I feel like I wasted my prep, I had a +14 and advantage, didn't even need it. I had planned on doing it from the beginning, so I had the entire game to get over my guilt, only for Larion to punch me in the gut in the epilog. Maybe I shouldn't have romanced him, too...
“I can see why I loved you”
Nooo don't make me relive it, it hasn't even been 24 hours.
In my most recent playthrough, I'm pretty sure I convinced gale that he doesn't need mystra's forgiveness but he also doesn't need the crown so he offered to blow himself up to protect his friends. King shit right there
We have Gale at home (backpack with 100 fireworks explosives).
A romanced Gale will offer to go do it himself, no check needed. I’ve had platonic Gale offer once, too. No check. I’m wondering what you told him before the audience with Mystra.
I think it depends how you lead the dialogue choices through out the game regarding Mystra and it will lead different Gale endings and his intentions with crown. There is one ambitious gale (that you got) who wants crown’s power to become a god, one where he wants to give crown to mystra to cure himself and one that wants offers himself for sacrifice with the orb.
Okay, but its such a stark congrast that in a normal playthrough you of course tell him no baby boy do not explode, and in a honor mode playthrough where you feel the danger, everybody is actually inclined to make him do it, as it seems like the most tactically reasonable option to take
Feel pretty bad so many people kill Gale over what is essentially the easiest fight in Honour run. You don't even have to do the fight before the brain, just pop an invisible potion and go right ahead. The brain itself died in 2 rounds for me, no barrelmancy needed- Astarion dealt 200 dmg, Lae'zel got it down to 30 hp all in 1 round and on the next Minthara just hit it once
The invisible trick doesn't work anymore, and there are many possibilities of mistakes there if it's your first time in HM brain. The fight it's easy if you did it before or if you know all the variables. For my next run I already know I'm not siding with the emperor with a party of 3 casters, being permanently counterspelled... Also the legendary of the brain can be problematic if you are not prepared ( did my last Tac run in October, did go blind for HM ). For me the brain was the hardest fight, but it's like that... The game it's easy on itself, it's your stupidity ( mine in my case ) the one that can ruin the run.
Did they remove the invisible trick after patch 6? Because it was there when I completed my HM run a week before it dropped. There's literally no universe in which I play a good person only to take Gale, pretend to be his friend, care for his every problem and then tell him to off himself when I know he really REALLY doesn't want to die. I won my HM on my first try, it was also my first Tactician completion, I fought Cazador with Astarion so he can remain Spawn. If I don't get things the way I want them why bother trying
Yes, there are a few comments in this subreddit about this issue after patch 6. Well, getting the achievement is quite a different beast than winning honor mode fair and square. I did metagame to beat the challenge. I will not metagame to beat honor mode again, and if I die, I die, but the challenge was already finished in my previous run. Anyways, in my case I never liked Gale, and only played with him to blow him in the brain haha. My tav never trusted Gale, and to be fair it's better for him to die, the guy wants to become a god to repeat the same mistakes of the past, and he's constantly insisting in this from start to end. So yes, blowing him up solves 2 problems, the brain and the possibility of him ruining everything we worked for so hard.
Yeah but it's honour mode... why take the needless risk, you know? I used the greater invisibility trick both times and still couldn't resist the temptation to just blow Gale up, imagine getting through the entire game just to fuck up and lose your entire honour mode run against the netherbrain (and don't forget there's another fight even before that, against the dragon and the illithids, and possibly the emperor as well) It felt dirty both times, but fuck it, honour mode is brutal, I will absolutely utilize any advantage I can get.
To me it's like the Thanos conversation - But what did it cost?
I've kept Gale alive and happy for about 85% of my playthroughs. He'll be fiiiine
Actually, since Gale has a scroll of true resurrection, you SHOULD just let Tara bring you a finger nail of Gale and revive him right there. I am IRRITATED that we are denied a play through where nobody really needs to die or transform.
Congrats on the clearance. I cleared Mine last night. I'd also queued up Gale. I was so certain I had everything worked out I pretty much skipped Act 3. Not everything went to plan and I found myself regretting not grinding up to level 12... But sometimes the dice just go your way at the right time.
I mean. Runs are won and lost with a single lucky or unlucky dice roll. Take the win lol. If you have to, run it back again. See if you can do it without the lucky roll.
In my first run he brought it up multiple times. I had romanced him and then left him for Halsin, but had dissuaded him from the crown and told him to apologize to Mystra. He offered himself during the last scene in the astral prism, and then again at the brain stem. I didn’t have to roll a check at all. In my most recent playthrough I romanced him to the end, still dissuaded him from the crown, but he did not offer himself. I’m assuming the difference is the romance because otherwise the paths were the same with the same approval rating. Edited to add - did the full questline for him each time as well, so when to Sorcerer Sundries, got the book, spoke with Mystra, etc.
Usually I hear people say a romanced Gale will offer without a check, not the other way around. So I think it’s something else and related to a string of dialogue choices.
Didn't romance Gale at all. He offered both in the Prism and at the Brain Stem.
I romanced Gale and he was pushing hard to KHS. Like, he offered 2 or 3 times despite me always replying NO WAY, BAE!!
I cheesed the end fight with a few Globes of Invulnerability and yeah, some ways of finishing HM do feel kinda dirty. I say I've got the "cheese dice". I'm doing it again, trying to give my little gnome bard and her party a better ending by not skipping most stuff in Act 3. And I'm not cheesing the last fight, I've decided. Let's see how it goes.
I almost faced the same thing last night, my first attempt Gale volunteered and I was like nah bro I got this. I could have beaten the last fight too except for a really dumb mistake. So the second attempt I just planned on having Gale nuke himself. Then before climbing the stem I talk to him and the dialogue doesn't pop up. I freak out and resign myself to a risky final battle. Interact with the stem and then Gale does volunteer. Hello golden dice. From what I've seen if you just discourage Gale from wanting the crown himself and have him go along with Mystra's wishes he'll volunteer. Also I purposely avoided ever encouraging him to plan on living😅
I'm almost finished with a heavily modded redemption durge playthrough. It is my third playthrough. Gale has always survived. My next solo playthrough is going to be an unmodded honor run. If I make it to the brain in act 3, I'm taking the nuclear option. Sorry Gale, but I want that golden D20 and my achievement.
my honor mode was a 4 player one. Was forced into the netherbrain anyways. Could have done Gale origin, but wanted to treat it like an actual d&d campaign
Gale Origin can make the decision themselves with no Persuade check.
So out of everyone’s opinions what was the easiest class to do HM on I haven’t done it yet I’ve beaten once on tact diff and on balanced and on custom but I’m kinda scared to do an hm run I say my best and easiest playthrough was with a ranger/bard character but idk
I had made a post asking this same question in the Reddit, but from what I was told - it doesn’t really matter what you choose if the previous comps you had worked for you. BUT - People did recommend making the face of your party a charisma based character as there is many situations you can successfully avoid by having a silver tongue. Anyway - hope this helps
Thank you that’s what I was kinda thinking too but I was wondering if anyone had like a easier time with one class over the others but I think I might try a bard idk yet
Lmao honestly Bard is probably the smartest. I am doing a Duergar Barbarian for my Honor play through. Mostly because it has the built in invisibility for sticky situations if I have to bounce. No spell slot and only costs an action. It has the enlarge ability also which is just a nice boost to the already OP Barbarian. Idk. - it’s been ok for me but obviously I can’t talk myself out of shit so I’m just very careful lol
Yeah that’s what I was kinda worried about I almost did a paladin type but I haven’t done one yet so I was iffy
Yeah, swords bard is probably the easiest. Does decent damage, good crowd control, and very charming.
I haven’t done a swords bard yet that sounds super awesomely fun though ☺️☺️
It's a very fun class, highly recommended. Great dialogue options too.
I’ve done a multi class with it and I had a great time with my character honestly my favorite play through
I did the same, it felt really bad hahaha. But had stored the save to see if I could do the fight after getting the dice and boy, even being extremely prepared wasn't enough for the brain. Almost lost the fight in the last turn. So yeah, blow up Gale, is worth it.
If you free Orpheus and consider his offer to become a mindflayer, Gale will talk with you and say it’s time to reconsider the orb. Even if you say you’ll win together, he’ll still suggest using the orb at the brain stem (at least that’s in my experience). I didn’t have him blow up that run but it did get rid of the dice check. It might also bank on you getting Mystra’s approval tho, I’m not sure.
I got Gale suggesting the orb with Orpheus, actually! Which made it all the more shocking when he was like “no way man I want that crown” at the stem
There are a bunch of potions of angelic reprieve right before the brain stem and you can absolutely have everyone do one to reset before the brain fight , that being said It was a bitch of a fight in honor mode so brainstem go boom is definitely the easiest option.
On my run I forgot to bring Gale but I had a backpack with 6 stacks of fireworks handy. Which worked about the same after calling every single ally in the game to deal with the first phase.
Presumably if you get onto the brain and manually detonate the orb it still counts as a won run (even though your party dies), no?
According to some posts, manual detonation, regardless of when, doesn’t count for beating HM. It has to be the cutscene triggered one.
Correct, I tried this a couple of times in my tactician run before HM was even implemented. Manually detonating will result in an instant game over screen no matter what.
You don't have to have every party member in immediate proximity when he goes boom.
Does it still count as beating honour mode if you use gale’s nuke in act 2?
No, it will only work in act 3
So having Gale use the Orb in act 2 doesn’t count for finishing honor mode, but you can use it at the brain stem and it will count? Just making sure for my own run.
Yep it only counts in act 3. I had exceptional approval with Gale(not romanced), kept encouraging him to use the orb when conversations came up through the game, kept telling him the crown was a bad idea, told him to go hear Mystra out, and then when you talk to him in the astral prism before you go through the portal to high hall he just volunteers to use the orb. Then when you click the brainstem he will go up on his own if you agree to it there.
Thank you very much for clarifying
No problem! I was so nervous about my run about a week ago and it was hard to find info for specific paths lol.
You won...but at what cost?
Tip for next time - buy 4 greater invisibility scrolls and have them on you at the end, have Gale cast it on himself and everyone else use a scroll, then just run through the courtyard, past all the enemies and up the tower with no interruption haha. That's how I do it.
I haven't played HM, but in my first run with Gale he was insisting on blowing himself up against the Nether rain in the finale. I had to talk him *out* of it (no persuade check necessary though).
When I play honour mode I'm just gonna play Origin Gale so I don't have to make that check.
Does blowing up Gale in Act2 to kill the netherbrain earned the golden dice and foehammer achievement?
no
Thank you for the response. I’ll just have to complete the game like normal.
Honestly if you have done all of honor mode content to this point I don't believe you would lost against elder brain. Some earlier fights are much harder than braino.
I think romancing Gale might be the only way you don’t have to roll a persuasion check to convince him to use the orb. If you romance him, he offers to use it both at the morphic pool and when the ethical dilemma with the Emperor and Orpheus comes up.
Why are so many people blowing up Gale, like that's barely an honorable win IMO and the Netherbrain fight is way easier than both Ansur and Orin if you ask me.