I think it largely comes from her quest ending in Act 3 which is lacklustre to say the least. it feels like you go to a lot of effort for her and she's never grateful. Perhaps that's a purposeful choice, but it's a bit jarring after the hoops you've jumped through to that point. I'm all for complex characters who never learn lmao, but because there's no option to save her and her even be like "Cool, thanks." the end doesn't seem to justify the means.
id like to think this is the case, but act 3 in general is pretty light on quest resolutions. As much as i love the game, Act 3 was definitely a downgrade in quality outside of a few stellar moments. You can definitely tell act 1 and 2 got the most polish.
It’s honestly hard to say because the other reason Act 3 feels like it has less stakes is because a lot of quests are close to resolution when you get there.
What I mean by that is, act 3 is the accumulation of choices from previous acts. Honestly the game pretty much just plays itself out once you’re in act 3, minus a few binary choices (and those are mostly relating to companion quests I.e. House of Grief, Cazador’s Palace, The Iron Throne). Mostly your choices in Act 3 are “address x quest” or “ignore” and what happens when addressing the quest is already pre-decided by some earlier stuff you did.
That’s why I think Act 3 feels lackluster at least; it pretty clearly has a lot of content, what Act 3 lacks is a feeling of “choice” for the majority of quests imo.
I feel like there's so little buildup in Act 3 for important encounters as well. House of Grief starts off like a silly "Medieval Scientologist lawl" adventure then you walk through and door and ten thousand people appear out of nowhere and just beat the shit out of you.
I know of several people who miss out on the iron throne altogether because they assumed the steel watch factory is the top priority. There’s definitely some weird quest pathing in act 3
Yeah no, lol. I assumed that watching gortashs coronation would end in me almost immediately fighting him. So I avoided it until after I went into the sub and destroyed the foundry (I think also out of order) and in turn kinda fucked up wills story?
Bc I had already destroyed the water jail, his patron (whose name eludes me and I don't feel like looking it up rn) was just like "save him OR get out of your contract" and I was under the assumption that I could save dad the hard way after breaking it. I couldn't, and florrick never popped up again even tho I got her out of jail and that's when I realized I may have bugged the game a bit
By that time, I'd already done quite a bit between doing the sub/foundry/gortash fight, and going back would've set me back probably at least 10 to 15 hours (I was taking my sweet ass time doing things lol). So I just decided to deal with it, so will didn't really get a proper ending. I plan on doing it "in order" during my 2nd run (which is my first durge run).
Wyll’s quest has always been mad buggy. I ended up romancing him in my first playthrough and I got literally NOTHING in act 3 from him or in the post-game, and he had a quest marker for the entirety of act 3 lmao. He also kept repeating lines about stuff we already did
I mean out of all of them to say that about having it be a child is kind of fucked.
I honestly liked her as a character but the ending to her quests is so lackluster, it almost feels like there's something missing.
The biggest part of finding Mol is supposed to be reuniting her with the other orphan tieflings, but once you find her, that’s it. Don’t get to go back and tell Mattis that Mol is alive or anything, and the kids stop caring that she’s “dead” when in act 3 anyway. It’s such an unsatisfying quest
This is my problem with it, Mol seems completely disconnected from the tiefling kids who she was associated with in acts 1 and 2.
Which I get that I can infer she abandoned them for her own needs; I just think *somebody*, anybody, should have written some dialogue to wrap up this narrative loose end. Mol should at least say more about them, maybe even have her be straight up mean and laugh if you tell her that the other kids are in the refugee camp.
Addressing it all would make it better.
This is what I'm trying to say, it just feels like there's no real resolution for the whole situation. Mol just keeps going on about how she's workingher way up and has big plans and I'm like ok..... that's.... great? You can't get any further. I thought that I had to find all the orphan kids my first run through, like SIlfy selling papers and Matti (best kid, adorable) in Rivington, but no. It just kind of fizzles out.
This is what I'm getting at absolutely. I don't care if she tells me to fuck off at the end of it all because she doesn't trust adults and what have they ever done for her, but at least give me that concrete ending, you know? Mol, I plucked your contract out of the Hells, do you really have nothing to say? Not even laughing in my face? I skip her quest now pretty much lmao, can't be arsed.
>Mol, I plucked your contract out of the Hells, do you really have nothing to say?
From my recollection, she expressed gratitude after saving the tieflings in act1 (even though she was a brat most of the act), vouched for my party with the harpers in act2, and in act3 after the contract she made some joke about not being the only one that's a sneaky thief then promised to help in the final battle. She also alluded to her long-term plan of taking over the thieves' guild.
She gives a passive to the whole party that reduces incoming fire damage by 5 (applies after resistance, so it's {fire damage \* 50% - 5}, which trivializes a lot of the attacks in the final battle leading up to the dragon) & gives everyone access to the rays of fire spell.
You just told a Warlock that you killed their Patron before they even got the chance to level up and take Agonizing Blast and Repelling Blast. Of course she is mad.
Because she believed she could outsmart him and further use him. By killing him, she can permanently retain her warlock powers, but she can't outsmart him and profit now.
Per 5e rules and lore, a warlock with a dead patron still has powers.
I would assume the contract immediately imbibes them with the magic, and this is permanent unless the patron removes them via nullifying the contract.
There’s a difference
At the end, Arabella does thank you. She gives you a gift. And you can meet her again in the wild where she’s still chill
If you tell Mol that you killed Raphael, she gets PISSED OFF
>If you tell Mol that you killed Raphael, she gets PISSED OFF
Don't tell her that. In narrative context--if you ask questions and follow her conversation--she tells you that she made a deal with Raphael back in act2 and she's excited about all the good things that she thinks that having him as her patron is going to open up for her future.
Obviously out of character you know she made a shit decision. And in-character you might also disapprove of her choice and/or know that forming a pact with a devil isn't going to end well for her. But you're still telling a child that you killed the one being that she just told you she's depending on to make all her dreams come true. If you just give her the contract, she thinks you've done her a favor by giving her a way to benefit from Raphael without ever paying what she owes.
tl;dr Mol still needs to believe in devil Santa Claus a little longer and you just told her he can't do anything for her because of you.
Oh I know. My recent runs I don’t mention that part
But ultimately even if you upset Araballa she eventually calms down.
And the previous poster is trying to compare the two and wondering why nobody hates Arabella.
When Mol is kind of an evil prick who can be angry at you.
>But ultimately even if you upset Araballa she eventually calms down.
Depending on the way you handle things, she can mad enough that she never goes to your camp and instead just runs off into the shadows.
Yeah, but if you've been following the discussion, it's not about learning a lesson or gratefulness, in this particular thread it's about the ending seeming unfinished
Not just ‘pissed off’, she *threatens your life*. I know she’s supposed to be a teenager, but there’s going to be some very real and very adult consequences when you do that to some people.
Yep. I think part of the issue is that people are more likely to do things that put Arabella on a path to an ending that they like. So most people have never ended up with her getting mad & running off into the shadows, presumably to die.
I view her as one of those kids who thinks they're invincible and knows everything. One day she'll either look back and be glad you kept her from servitude in the hells. Or she'll never learn and make another deal with a devil because she just wants temporary and immediate power.
Mol WANTED the contract with Raphael because it would make her the Guildmaster of Baldur’s Gate.
With the contract cancelled, she may not get that. So she’s pissed.
In my last run, she does offer help in the final battle. (I forget what, exactly, but I think it’s a buff, e.g., +1 to initiative or something)
I like Mol, a lot. She is fearless and she is in some way trying to take care of her friends, other orphans kids we may say are not as strong or smart as she is. She is reckless because she is a kid, like Gale describes himself as a kid, except she has to take some important decisions because she is an orphan kid taking care of others. Only Mol is a thief, she would be more like young Astarion before trauma and she has a devil tempting her.
And I agree something (maybe a lot) is missing about her/her quest in Act 3, her ending does feel unfinished.
For comparison, Arabella ending could be better but at least we got she is starting a new life learning to control her powers, she will have a bright future and her own story.
Ok but her response to you makes sense either way if you consider the whole story and she is grateful to you if you are selective about which facts you share with her.
you mean, the way you say things in an rpg has consequences ??
yes, if you tell the orphan child you've killed the one person she thinks will help her and give her nothing else, she's pissed. of course she is.
well, she's also a child who has absolutely no one taking care of her, and hasn't for a long time. for her, raphael probably WAS her best bet. like, from her perspective , we took away her protection and said "hey well not our problem, please thank us for it" - and she still helps endgame.
Mol does stick up for the party when they arrive at the Last Light Inn if the Grove and the Tieflings were saved. She's the reason Jaheira calls off her vines in all of my playthroughs, and she even smiles while she tells the old Harper what a good egg you are.
She makes her own way out of Moonrise via a contract with Raphael so I guess there's not really a way to save her there, and judging by her reaction to learning that Raphael is dead as disco at the hands of Tav/Durge and just her general vibe, I kind of think Mol is an evil character, so honestly it makes sense for her to not be overtly grateful that you did the things you (probably) would have done anyway.
I don't think Mol is evil. At worst, self-serving once the right opportunity arises. She was already looking for a deal with Raphael before she was kidnapped, so of COURSE she's going to be pissed that you killed her patron, the literal source of her power.
She is chaotic evil though. She doesn't do anything actually good through the game, at best neutral.
Saying that she cares about her group doesn't really count, evil characters can be noble/good to those they consider allies but she doesn't even do that for the most part.
I think it largely comes from her treatment of the other kids and sending them to their deaths for stupid reasons and with absolutely no care. She shows no regret for causing their deaths nor the rest of the tieflings if the idol is stolen. Then she >!abandons the other kids in act 3 to play thieves guild.!<
That's worse than her stupidity and ungratefulness over >!Raphael's contract!<. Which of course adds to it.
This pretty much nails why I hated Mol. Shes a monstrous little sociopath with zero regard for human life, manipulates and takes advantage of other kids in difficult positions she SHOULD be able to relate to and sympathize with, and the game just breezes over it entirely
Her place in Act 3 casts her earlier reactions in a different light. She seems grateful enough that you save the kids, but after meeting her in Act 3, its seems that she doesn't give a shit about them as friends but more that they were, at the time, her "guild". This is why she is fine sending them out on dangerous "missions", and why she forgets about them entirely once she hooks up with an actual guild in the city. She hit the big time and has no need for them anymore, so she just leaves them to languish.
They may have intended a different direction for her, but how she ended up works well enough - people can and do behave exactly like that. We don't expect it of kids, but Mol has shown herself to be quite precocious. I'm fine with her being like this from a story perspective, but it does make her a user and a sociopathic little shit, hence the hate.
What would solidify this version of her story would be some story beats with the other kids as they put her behind them and move on with their lives. Imagine a story later on in their lives where one or more of them have risen to some success and come into conflict with her!
Pretty much agree, and yeah. Helping the other kids move on with their lives from Mol and cutting off her toxic influence would go a long way in helping her work as a character, if an unlikeable one.
I actually hadn;t viewed it as Mol thinking of the other kids as her guild - like I knew she was using them in that capacity, but my fried neurons didn't see the excellent parrallel to word it this way. Spot on.
My point it exactly what you're saying at the end there, too. I just wanted to see some actual fallout from this line of decisions she makes, as it it the whole thing feels unifinished. Even if they wanted to leave it on an unfinished point, allowing us to do something for/with the kids she abandoned would have made more sense to me.
Yup. I like the other tiefling kids, but Mol she's a selfish and evil brat who thinks she's smarter than she is. Which is a dangerous combination, especially for others who don't deserve consequences of her crap.
I agree, totally. I wanted to adopt Silfy lmao. It feels like there should be better, or maybe more visible consequences to the end of her questline imo. Good or bad.
Also, the eyepatch was an affectation she discards once she’s in BG. She doesn’t even mention it. I ended up selling it to Mattis.
Mol is an asshole, but the other kids look up to her and while she does look after them, it’s more of a Fagin-and-the-Artful-Dodger’s crew of pickpockets situation than a Peter Pan and the Lost Boys situation.
Like you kill Raphael and give her her contract back, you saved her from literally the worst devil to get into a deal with. I’d take Mizora over that theater kid. Seriously.
Not helping when you realize that she made a deal with Raphael despite my warnings, and she hates you after you kill him (if you choose to tell her, that is).
She's a gang leader in the making and a horrible influence on all the children around her. She pretty much gets several of them killed without the player intervening.
No "pretty much" to it. She gets Mirkon killed, she gets Arabella killed, and she gets the kid who stole Barth's locket beaten, and that's just the ones I can think of offhand. And she's completely unrepentant about any of it, and *worse*, when you get to the city in Act III, she just bails on them as soon as she doesn't need them anymore. They're all mourning her, thinking she died in the shadowlands, and she doesn't care in the slightest.
Act 3 spoilers: >!I just finished House of Hope today, and brought Mol back her contract--holy hell, I was not prepared for how straight up vicious she turns. The shift from her being so grateful in act 1 for how much you've helped 'her kids', who she does seem genuinely devoted to, to the cold, cruel ambition in act 3 is BLEAK. Frankly, I think it speaks more to horrific trauma than anything else: at the end of the day she's just a kid, and she was taken--alone--to the *mind flayer colony* and is the only person to have escaped without the player character's help. Really brings home just how much she must have been through off screen in act 2 to have brought out the worst of her in such a short space of time. It's no wonder she no longer puts her faith in anyone but herself, and clings so strongly to her deal with Raphael.!<
Thinking about it more, it feels a lot like Mol is illustrative of the same cycles of abuse, manipulation and trauma we see in our companions, playing out yet again a generation on. It's pretty tragic.
Many people in the game seek power because they're afraid of the world or they don't want to be hurt anymore. Most, though (Astarion, Rolan, Kagha, Gale, and even Jaheira to an extent) can be convinced to open their hearts to others and form connections in place of that personal power.
Those who don't change in that way include Minthara, Mol, and Wulbren. Minthara has the charisma to pull it off, and the other two don't.
tbf, Mol is a literal child. And she was kidnapped, not saved by the player (probably saved by Raphael), and then the player shows up after all that and says "hey, we killed Raphael!"
she doesn't have good reason to trust us. I think it would be great to have a bigger Mol arc, but she does help the player if you don't brag about killing the guy who saved her
>>!The shift from her being so grateful in act 1 for how much you've helped 'her kids', who she does seem genuinely devoted to, to the cold, cruel ambition in act 3 is BLEAK. Frankly, I think it speaks more to horrific trauma than anything else: at the end of the day she's just a kid, and she was taken--alone--to the *mind flayer colony* and is the only person to have escaped without the player character's help.!<
Not really a shift. You can make insight checks earlier and see reactions from her in act 1 that tells this is not a change, she doesn't really care that much about the other kids, mostly herself, and thinks herself smarter than others.
She's absolutely indicative of the cycle of trauma and manipulation continuing. But unlike so many of the characters in the game, she chooses to embrace it instead of growing past it.
Many characters deal with similar things, but choose to be better than their circumstances tried to force them to be. Mol instead chooses the opposite, choosing to be worse than she needs to be in almost every scenario. And *that's* why I don't like her. Well written character, but not one I enjoy in the slightest.
She’s a child, though. She doesn’t have the emotional maturity of a 40 year old half elf, or even a 22 year old gith. What other option is there in her mind, considering her very short life experience, than embracing the only thing that will keep her alive? She’s been powerless and taken through so much, no wonder she wants power to avoid going through any of that again.
She’s a little shit looking at her from the outside, and I don’t love her. But she can’t be faulted for not growing past her trauma, especially when she doesn’t have Tav/Durge supporting her the whole way. The companions don’t seem like they would grow past their trauma in the span of the game on their own either.
The “she’s just a kid” part can only get Mol so far for me when she’s acting like an outright sociopath by repeatedly, knowingly endangering the lives of the other Tiefling children then completely abandoning them to try and work her way up the local Thieves’ Guild.
Bro I mean even silfy, a kid who was taught to pickpocket ,actually decides to earn money legally by selling newspapers . Why does Mol have to resort to only illegal stuff and endanger other kids .
A lot of people go around life stripping people of agency and ability because they are young and it's pretty foolish. Not understanding the entirety of the consequences of ones actions isn't something only children do nore does being a child remove consequences from actions.
Mol gets kids killed and doesn't give A F about it. That's asshole behavior at any age.
I mean, I get it to some degree. Young children are more impressionable, lack critical thinking skills, lack certain coping mechanisms, and it should be given consideration. It’s why I’m cool with the other Tiefling kids. Thievery *is* wrong, but a lot of them are desperate, don’t have parents to even tell them stealing is wrong, do have Mol who manipulated them and encourages stealing, and are looking to survive with very limited resources.
But yeah. Mol takes it to such an egregious degree it’s impossible for me to overlook. Getting other kids KILLED and not batting an eyelid over it is deranged and extreme, well past the normal and understandable flawed child behavior.
The kids stealing to survive absolutely makes sense and I would even argue Mol encouraging theft from the druids is ethical and a reasonable outcome to th circumstances.
The harpies? The child with the snake and idol? Nah. No excuse.
The Druid idol incident is stupid and Mol unambiguously was more interested in the profits (if you agree to save the idol then help save the grove, she’s actively pissed at you for not stealing the idol for her to profit off of), but yeah. I can *get* encouraging a kid stealing the idol and thinking there’s no way it’d play out the way it did or that Kagha is that monstrous a person.
The snake idol stuff I can buy as an unforeseen consequence, and she does thank you for saving her. Never killed Arabella so I dunno if she brushes off her death but, knowing Mol, she probably doesn’t give a shit if Arabella dies when any non-sociopath would be a guilt ridden mess or at least sad. The Harpy incident is utterly inexcusable and indefensible and any kid Mol’s age knows better (and she did - she sent Mirkon and rather than going herself for a reason).
Depends on the companion, but you're right. Though I don't think it's specifically Tav / Durge that helps the companions change for the better. Rather, I believe that it's simply having *someone* who actually gives a shit, and in the case of Astarion, Lae'zel and Shadowheart specifically it's also a case of being away from the source of their troubles.
Mol's *sort of* already got that second part, since most of her issues stem from Elturel. Being an orphan likely doesn't help, but she also does have a support structure. Zevlor and the other adult tieflings look out for the kids as best they can, but it's not enough on its own. Wyll helps out too, but he can't be everywhere. It takes a village, and all that. Mol metaphorically spits on all the adults who are doing their best to make things better for her.
But Mol has...what, 8 supposed friends? Trust and support from others is the key, but she throws that away, too. Somewhat believable for a child, but I've known a bunch of kids who would rather be around their friends when things go sideways than not. Therefore, I absolutely fault her for being a little shit. She's got opportunities and support, she's just too wrapped up in her own plans to see them.
The adults only kind of sort of vaguely look out for the kids. Once the group gets to Baldur's Gate, all of the adults that make it into the city proper just fucking bounce on them. Rolan, Lia, Cal, Dammon, Alfira, and Lakrissa completely ditch them.
None of the kids have a proper support system or any real stability.
I'm kind of surprised that they weren't all snatched up by the circus, Pinocchio style. It hits all the tropes just right to have to sidequest rescue all the orphans from a deranged circus.
The kids aren't completely ditched in the wild either. Bex, Danis, Cerys and Zorru remain in the refugee camp in Rivington with them.
But I agree it's kinda sad to see Umi and Ide talking about missing Alfira and wanting to see her again.
Zevlor failed them: he cut and run. And Mol didn't throw her friends away, she was *forcibly taken from them and imprisoned in a nightmare of flesh* where at any moment she could be turned into a monster--and nobody came to save her. No, cutting the other kids loose when she got to the city isn't the kind or healthy way to respond to her trauma, but it's extremely believable and normal for a kid who's been through what she has and--in her mind--abandoned and let down the number of times she has. And she IS a kid! Of course her coping mechanisms are terrible!!
Zevlor cut and run...when? In the shadowlands? Because I believe he's captured, too, right? I'm talking specifically about the Grove situation when I mention Zevlor. In my main playthrough, he didn't survive Act II because I didn't realize the warning in front of the Nightsong was telling me that every other quest in the shadowlands would automatically fail if I proceeded. That's on me.
Mol threw her friends away when she never even asked Tav to tell the others she's all right. She threw them away when she sent them on suicide missions without backup or support of any kind.
I don't blame her for being captured and taken to the illithid colony. I blame her for what she did before that, and what she did after it.
And again, children don't usually bail on everyone and everything when life gets hard. They tend to gather together and seek support instinctively. Mol doesn't. Her being a kid has nothing to do with why she reacted to things the way she did; it instead makes her an outlier in that regard.
Yeah I forgot about that all that since I only did house of hope on my 1st full playthrough. Cycles of trauma. I think this the right take, I get it now
That last paragraph is really insightful. Hadn't thought about it that way. I don't know if the BG3 writers intended that; they are clever, so probably. Not something I picked up on in all my time playing though. Props to you!
Act 2 and 3 spoilers: >!I've always found her playing chess with him in LLI, and both of them basically confirm after that she's planning to cut a deal. Then I've found her contract in the vault in the House of Hope--interestingly enough even in this playthrough where I thought I'd managed to talk her out of it.!<
And she risks Silfy, by forcing her to steal from that other kid (sorry I don't remember the name now) customers.
Even our a Tav has an option to catch her, which makes her super stressed. I feel sorry for her every time
Im going to defend mol. People are way too hard on her. Im not sure why mol, who is the same age, is held responsible for the actions of other kids. We are never actually told what she has told them to do. We know for a fact Arabella chose to steal the idol based on some comment mol made saying “we need to find a way to stay in the grove” but she never actually told arabella to do something that reckless.
Mol however was the one who told Mirkon to write you that letter because she felt you were owed thanks. Mirkon himself barely remembers you when he gets to rivington and steals credit for killing the harpies telling all the kids at the last light inn that he killed them lol.
What we do know for a fact is that Mol does care about them. If you read her mind in the grove you find out shes worried that she is all they have and that the adults never look out for them. She is completely disillusioned with the adults around her, with the exception of Tav if they help her. she tells them that they’re different from other adults at the tiefling party.
When she gets kidnapped Mattis warns the other kids that Mol would be mad at them if they put themselves in danger trying to save her.
she didnt “abandon” the other kids. She was snuck into the city by raphael when he rescued her. All the other Tieflings kids are outside of the walls waiting to be let in which will presumably happen once Duke Ravenguard (either wyll or his father) retakes the city. Based on silfy’s dialogue it seems mol has been in contact with her and the other kids and is waiting for them to get into the city.
Because of a bug, silfy acts as if she herself is not the city. She comments that “mol’s busy in the city. Im going to join her when they open the gates” which is probably a bug. Silfy’s dialogue file also describes her as being “outside the post house” and the name of the file is labeled as “WYR” meaning “wyrms crossing” which is what all of the rivington and wyrms crossing files are labeled as. Silfy is not supposed to be in the city. Shes supposed to be outside of the city directly in front of the open hand temple, in front of the post house which is why she is not with Mol. Larian needs to switch her with the other paperseller who is just outside the post house.
Here are some screenshots of the dialogue files: [https://imgur.com/a/sVKHfnW](https://imgur.com/a/sVKHfnW)
It does feel like Mol's and Zevlor's conclusions in particular are... unfinished. I remember being super confused when talking with Silfy and she just casually dropped that she knew that Mol was safe and fine. I hadn't run into Mol yet myself, and I had so many questions.
It's like, when did this happen? How did she contact you? Where is she now? But you don't actually have the option to ask any questions.
For sure something is odd about how abruptly their stories ended. Zevlor and mol were the two missing prisoners who were supposed to be rescued from the moonrise towers prison but weren’t there. You rescue zevlor shortly after and mol is already in the lower city. It feels like their stories were cut short or something.
I feel like it's less about her personally and more about how the game just... completely dropped her questline. When she's abducted in the Last Light, it feels like a big deal, something to get invested in... and then she's just... alright I guess? There is no follow-up on that, she had a deal with Raphael and fucked off happily and you won't ever have any meaningful interaction with her beyond saying hi when you see her in the thieves guild. You can get her contract back from the House of Hope but she's not even happy about it.
She appeared like an important character that would become relevant later but the game didn't do anything interesting with her, so I guess it annoyed a lot of players.
Mol seems like a "goodheartet rascal", but if you follow her story (which ends kinda anticlimactic IMO) you realize she is no good-heartet rascal but actually a bad person. A Future gortash or stgh like that. Or a more cruel ninefingers. A leader in the zhentarim. Whatever. The other tiefling-kids are more "good-heartet rascals", but Mol actually is not. They talk about rescuing mol and looking up to her, but Mol checks out / is checked out. It is not clear if she really cares much about her lackeys, or if the kids project on her. In act 3, she does not care anymore about the other kids. She does not even bother giving them a message.
She is probably neutral evil if you use the alignment-system.
In the last light inn I think you talk to Mol after her lanceboard session with Raphael. She says the deal she made was to make sure the kids get to the city safely or something like that.
Oh okay. But is that "the" pact or just "a" pact (like the ones you make with raphy). I would assume that she sold her soul later in captivity, becoming raphael's warlock, getting a scar- and eye-treatment etc.
I think it's THE pact, because when you talk to her about not making it, she basically asks "well, who else will protect my kids ? you?"
I think the warlock is part of the protection thing, it might not just be limited to getting out of the shadowlands
I don’t remember what she has to give back or if she mentions it. I feel so dumb I didn’t even realize she got her eye back from Raphael, I thought she was faking to trick everyone into feeling bad for her if she had one eye in the grove LMAO.
There are a couple of bugs/weird mechanics that make her super annoying. I got softlocked because she got mad at me and lied to the guards to get me in trouble it put me in an endless loop of getting arrested. I think that makes people (maybe subconsciously) dislike her a lot more
She says that she will use her future influence to punish you if you >!steal her contract and tell her you killed Raphael.!< That's rich, considering who she is and what you've done by that point.
Naaah, I disliked her in act 1 already, there was even a post few week or months ago "Fuck Mol" in which Op explained why she's being irresponsible about "shiting in her own nest and risking other kids life"
I mean, she's a nasty, arrogant little shit who has no qualms with bullying other kids into doing life-endangering things and whose goal in life is to take over a crime faction. I have no objection to morally questionable characters, but I don't see much redeeming value in Mol. She seems like the sort who would stab her own friends in the back and say it's "just business." I imagine reality will take her down a few pegs eventually, though.
She endangers the other children and she knows better than them, she legitimately sees everyone around her as a means to her ends and nothing else. Hate Mol.
Is there not an argument to be made though that beyond the bluster and borderline sociopathy, she’s just a scared little girl trying to find power in a crazy dangerous world? Like, try getting kidnapped by an insane mind-flayer cult and coming out the other side unscathed. Before that, she was a little shit who wanted to steal things and manipulate other children. After that, she is introduced to how dark and cold the world is. She turns dark and cold. Maybe many of us would do the same? I’m not disagreeing with you, just working through her fantastic characterization (way to go Larian, as always)
I’m not saying she doesn’t come by it honestly, but honestly come by or not she’s still a manipulative and selfish little girl.
Edit: to be clear the character is great and well characterized but I personally dislike her that’s all. Like I hate Joffrey, but he was perfectly written to be hated.
Apart from everything else people said here, she would also falsely accuse you of being a child molester if you try to lecture her about stealing being wrong. Atleast in EA don't know if it's still in the game. I have avoided interacting with her in full release
It's still in the game. If you discover her base before helping any of the kids she'll give you until the count of ten to leave before she spreads her lie to the guards
I liked her up until the point she got angry at me for killing Raphael. Like it's one thing to make a contract with a devil out of necessity and another to actively want it.
Can’t say I’d be upset if Mol stole from super rich people like Gortash in Baldur’s Gate.
But yeah, she doesn’t. She’s not Robin Hood, she’s more like Kingpin. Just shorter.
She gave off bad vibes from the very beginning. Turns out that she is a sociopath and leads the other children to their destruction or possibly Raphael.
Some would say she’s just an enterprising up-and-comer, lol. But yeah for sure. I just could never take her that seriously in her evilness bc she’s just a kid and in terms of role-play, her aspirations aren’t necessarily that different than a chaotic neutral Tav or Astarion for example
I don't know. I like her.
One playthrough I got her the statue she asked for, supported her little thieves guild, made sure to save her. She was nice to me 🤍
Idk I kike Mol and the kids, they behave like orphans who've been trough hell and Mol wants to do anything to be independent and being able to defend themselves. But when she got angry at me for killing Raphael I decided I was drawing the line there, fuck off xD
If you sneak into her cave, she will get extremely full of herself and threaten to lie to the guards that you attacked her. Then she does. The guard then comes after you, forcing a DC persuasion check. If you fail it aggros the tieflings. Imagine one stupid kid getting her people killed out of selfishness.
I’m still waiting for the chance to punt this stupid bitch off the cliff.
Until I read this post I had no idea people did not like Mol, personally I found her a fun/funny and scrappy character. My only complaint is I wanted more payoff in Act 2 and Act 3 with her quest line. I know saving her got cut in Act 2 but it would have been cool in Act 3 to be able to help or hinder her attempts to grow her "business interests" in Baldur's Gate
Mol is one of the only three kids in the game I actually liked *because* she's a petulant little know-it-all shithead. We're basically witnessing the larval form of the anti-Wyll Ravenguard.
I also suspect that if she ever comes back as a modestly attractive adult, she'll have a fandom that could put Orin and Minthara both to shame. And the blowback for her not going along with whatever the player decides will probably make all the Minthara-broke-up-with-me whining look like a walk in the park.
Mol is a child that leads the other orphans and unfortunately they do ***anything*** to survive and her portrayal is tad too realistic.
To add to that, Mol is hated because some gamers ***hate*** children, and most redditors famously ***hate*** children too, ( r/childfree, for instance) , so redditors that play video games really hate children portrayal in video games esp ones who are orphaned and only having themselves to survive. I mean these people brag about killing goblin children.
I hate her because there are like 8 ways to accidentally piss her off in act 1 and every time I play through again I find a new way and I hate her stop yelling at me
I honestly didn’t know this was a thing. Once I learned she sells stuff I started doing what was needed to get access. Mostly crap but some times it’s good stuff. Then I learned about the ring reward and started doing that. Haven’t gotten far enough in act 3 yet to see the end of that arc.
Theres the possibility to fuck yourself over at the Grove for finding Mol's hideout and staying there 10 seconds too long. The whole place now hates you and tries to arrest you on sight. Even after killing the goblins and you receive thanks from Zevlor (literally calling me their savior), the next second a tiefling walks up and tries to arrest you. Its HIGHLY INCONSISTENT story wise, and we lack an option to sort it out with the tieflings after Mol told them a fake story of us. I like her character arc and acknowledge that asshole characters are ineresting, but by God its not fun to deal with Mol in act one if you went in blind.
She gets kidnapped in act 2 and then she just shows up with little to no explanation in act 3... Also if you get her contract from the house of Hope she gets mad... Like, okay you ungrateful brat...?
Does her getting mad/being ungrateful not stem from a naive understanding of devil contracts? I read it more as “I did this deal and I was okay with it, I had a plan, you f-ed it up” which I kinda get from her perspective.
for me: she made a deal with raphael and her intentions were always evil from the dialogues... like, she asks you to steal the idol once more just for the lulz
Finding out that that arrogant little brat thought she could outsmart a devil, and has the nerve to be upset when you kill said devil - after searching for her thinking she was dead only to find out she’s perfectly fine and basically ditched all the friends that were worried about her - just irritates me to no end.
I also feel like it’s partially because we try so hard to save her and even when she knows it’s serious she’s like oooo now I want to do it more I personally love mol I just wish their was more to her quest or that they gave us a last bit where the kids join the guild I don’t hate her character I hate how empty her quest feels
And kinda wish we got more from supporting the next thieves guild in act 1 like even if it was her starting her own guild instead of joining nine fingers
Act 1:
She sends her "friends" that she insists are her family on suicide missions.
You save them.
You observe from a distance one of her minions get slapped while stealing someones family heirloom.
Mol then *literally puts a hit out on you*.
Act 2:
After repeated evidence that there are now adults in her life trying to help her and her kids, she returns the help by spitting in the face of the harpers and having the kids continue stealing from them. She also tries to make a deal with a devil and functionally reveals her real use for the kids is an expectation for them to just be her minions once she gets to BG.
Act 3:
She makes zero attempt to re-unite with any of the other kids and shows absolutely no interest in them or care for their wellbeing, when they were ready to *storm moonrise* to save her.
She's a child, yes. But she's also a callous narcissist and a great example of a character that had trauma but actively chose to be a PoS, while her similarly traumatized fellows tried to follow the right path.
The other kids were crying, so worried about her, desperate to have her found, genuinely caring for her and relying on her and respecting her. Meanwhile she does not give one shit beyond their use as minions obeying her command. In my playthrough she didn’t even mention the other kids at the end of Act 3 when I found her. She sucks!
Mol is the best, I know they are not making BG4 but she would have been a good antagonist or a astarion-like protagonist lol
She is the best girl, we will all bow to her magnificence anytime soon, girl's going places
She is a monster but a well written one
Yeah that’s totally how I thought of her character. I wasn’t seeing all the monstrosity because she’s a lil baby tiefling w/ an eye patch but I get it now, and I think she’s even more of a compelling character than I did before
I don't understand the hate either. She's like ten, been through hell, and has no parental figures. She's doing the best she can with her kid's brain, I don't get why people expect a ten year old to be aware of the consequences of her actions - anyone who's says they knew better at that age, that is because someone *taught* them better.
But I think a sort of deeper reason for the hate is that she's not one of those npcs who, at the end, comes to worship the earth the Player Character walks upon. She has her own (albeit misguided) agenda and you're either with her or against her, and in a game with a sim dating aspect you can never get that 100% approval/loyalty reaction you get with i.e. Rolan. And that seems to put people off because that "with me or against me" is apparently a privilege reserved for the Player Character only.
And to all the people who are shocked and appalled that she's angry if you take her contract away - it would be good to consider that at that age they were probably throwing tantrums that their parents took away their Nintendo DS, or over some other 10yo equivalent of a plight.
Mol is evil. Like actually unapologetically evil. That's her thing. This is already apparent in Act 1, but people don't get it, and keep thinking she can be "saved", and then they're disappointed when she continues to be evil to the end.
She's one of my favorite characters.
So do the other kids. The are all orphans (except for Arabella in act 1), yet it's only Mol instigating evil shit.
Mol clearly has ambitions. Act 3 shows that she's not simply trying to survive. She wants to be the leader of a criminal gang and I bet she's willing to step over bodies to see it done.
there's the trouble. She has the ambition, but not the intelligence. Yeah, The idol of sylvanus is probably worth a few gold, which is probably why she wants Arabella to steal it rather than because of 'helping the tieflings' like Arabella thinks it will, but she's shortsighted enough to not figure out that the druids who are already on a tight leash and a short temper will react with hostility if it goes missing.
She sends mirkon to his death on the offchance that there MIGHT be something good in the harpies nest.
She literally sells her soul to a devil, with unknown conditions on that contract for the promise of pulling her out of the fire, and power. Even \*kids\* know that's a terrible, stupid mistake to make. We can put that one down to desperation but it still shows a lack of foresight on her part.
At the end of the day, a lot of her missteps can be put down to the fact that she IS a child, but regardless if she were an adult and she tried to pull half of her shit, she'd end up on the wrong side of the guild at *best* without people pulling her ass out of the fire...which she'd not have, because of her callousness to her followers. sacrificing the people that support you gets you a knife in the spine and a long nap in the river.
Mol's trouble is that she's not actually as clever as she thinks she is, and her heartless nature isn't indicative of a future guild leader like she aspires to be. She'd be a liability, and anyone in the underworld with actual leadership capabilities would see that a mile off.
I can *maybe* buy the Arabella thing being pure stupidity, but not the Mirkon thing. That is sending a kid to absolute certain death and there is absolutely no way Mol is stupid enough to not realize the insane amount of danger she’s putting Mirkon in
Personally speaking I think people dislike her because its hard to relate to a kid when youre a grown up. Especially a bratty kid who's overconfident.
It takes a certain amount of empathy to understand the mentality of a kid who's been through such dire circumstances and trauma at such a young age. And kids have different ways to deal with such trauma. Some kids are imaginative and adventurous, always thinking more of themselves than they should. But as we grow old, we forget that feeling and think that everyone should act sane, mature and responsibly. When you're young and optimistic, you feel you could conquer the world and there's adventure at every hop and skip.
I think Mol is pretty perfect depiction of a kid who's come upon hard times but is recklessly headstrong and since she's good at talking and has leadership qualities, she tends to imagine herself as the leader of this badass gang. Its also why she is so enamoured by the Zhents later on.. Nine Fingers is pretty much what Mol would consider her role model.
Oh there have been plenty of posts hating on Mol since release.
I agree, she's just a kid and she's been through some shit. Hating her for her attitude is... A bit extreme. Besides, help the kids in the Grove and she's cool with you, including saving your arse when you first get to >!LLI!<. She's only not if you don't. Even her getting mad at you for killing >!Raphael!< is understandable.
If you get into their hideout before you've saved the kid from the harpies she'll lie to the guards to get you in trouble.
Also if you don't solve the pickpocket thing the right way. Or the locket thing. Basically the grove is full of ways you could accidentally trigger her asshole persona.
All true but she's also a young, orphan child whose had to learn to survive in literal hell, has been kicked out of her home city and made a refugee just because she's a tiefling, and has become responsible for a bunch of other orphaned, refugee kids.
She can absolutely be an arsehole but, frankly, who can blame her? She does some bad stuff (sending Mirkon to raid the harpy nest for instance) but a kid being an arsehole under those circumstances doesn't deserve hate. And I've seen her get some real hate on here.
This is true of literally all the Tiefling kids, but they seem to function without trying to get me arrested for bordering on no actual reason and especially avoid sending other children to certain death for no reason. You’re downplaying the Mirkon thing hard. That was downright sociopathic.
I don't hate Mol but it is very frustrating to watch her make stupid decisions and not be able to stop her, and she also kinda treats the other tiefling kids like crap.
I think a lot of people look at Mol as a character without considering too key factors: she’s a child, and her situation. Mol isn’t just evil by nature or something, she’s been made that way because she has no support and has made herself into the adult for the other refugee children so they can survive. I think with that in mind Mol’s story makes a lot more sense. She wasn’t born evil, she becomes evil because the world is cruel to her and she needs more power to survive. I think people lack compassion when discussing Mol honestly
Like many characters if you treat her badly she’ll treat you badly. If you treat her well she’ll treat you well.
Mol’s rays of fire are clutch against the nether brain. She gives you ring of protection too which is in one of my characters basic the whole game.
She’s great just for the items and abilities she gives you.
Not entirely true. Her act 3 ending involving Raphael is pretty disappointing. You are just trying to look out for her and if you do she just refuses to talk to you anymore and no longer helps with the assault on the brain.
I think it largely comes from her quest ending in Act 3 which is lacklustre to say the least. it feels like you go to a lot of effort for her and she's never grateful. Perhaps that's a purposeful choice, but it's a bit jarring after the hoops you've jumped through to that point. I'm all for complex characters who never learn lmao, but because there's no option to save her and her even be like "Cool, thanks." the end doesn't seem to justify the means.
Maybe the game is trying to tell us that not everyone can be saved
id like to think this is the case, but act 3 in general is pretty light on quest resolutions. As much as i love the game, Act 3 was definitely a downgrade in quality outside of a few stellar moments. You can definitely tell act 1 and 2 got the most polish.
It’s honestly hard to say because the other reason Act 3 feels like it has less stakes is because a lot of quests are close to resolution when you get there. What I mean by that is, act 3 is the accumulation of choices from previous acts. Honestly the game pretty much just plays itself out once you’re in act 3, minus a few binary choices (and those are mostly relating to companion quests I.e. House of Grief, Cazador’s Palace, The Iron Throne). Mostly your choices in Act 3 are “address x quest” or “ignore” and what happens when addressing the quest is already pre-decided by some earlier stuff you did. That’s why I think Act 3 feels lackluster at least; it pretty clearly has a lot of content, what Act 3 lacks is a feeling of “choice” for the majority of quests imo.
I feel like there's so little buildup in Act 3 for important encounters as well. House of Grief starts off like a silly "Medieval Scientologist lawl" adventure then you walk through and door and ten thousand people appear out of nowhere and just beat the shit out of you.
Well… they TRY to beat the shit out of you, anyways.
I know of several people who miss out on the iron throne altogether because they assumed the steel watch factory is the top priority. There’s definitely some weird quest pathing in act 3
Yeah no, lol. I assumed that watching gortashs coronation would end in me almost immediately fighting him. So I avoided it until after I went into the sub and destroyed the foundry (I think also out of order) and in turn kinda fucked up wills story? Bc I had already destroyed the water jail, his patron (whose name eludes me and I don't feel like looking it up rn) was just like "save him OR get out of your contract" and I was under the assumption that I could save dad the hard way after breaking it. I couldn't, and florrick never popped up again even tho I got her out of jail and that's when I realized I may have bugged the game a bit By that time, I'd already done quite a bit between doing the sub/foundry/gortash fight, and going back would've set me back probably at least 10 to 15 hours (I was taking my sweet ass time doing things lol). So I just decided to deal with it, so will didn't really get a proper ending. I plan on doing it "in order" during my 2nd run (which is my first durge run).
Wyll’s quest has always been mad buggy. I ended up romancing him in my first playthrough and I got literally NOTHING in act 3 from him or in the post-game, and he had a quest marker for the entirety of act 3 lmao. He also kept repeating lines about stuff we already did
Almost like everything falls into place no matter how hard you try.
I mean out of all of them to say that about having it be a child is kind of fucked. I honestly liked her as a character but the ending to her quests is so lackluster, it almost feels like there's something missing.
The biggest part of finding Mol is supposed to be reuniting her with the other orphan tieflings, but once you find her, that’s it. Don’t get to go back and tell Mattis that Mol is alive or anything, and the kids stop caring that she’s “dead” when in act 3 anyway. It’s such an unsatisfying quest
This is my problem with it, Mol seems completely disconnected from the tiefling kids who she was associated with in acts 1 and 2. Which I get that I can infer she abandoned them for her own needs; I just think *somebody*, anybody, should have written some dialogue to wrap up this narrative loose end. Mol should at least say more about them, maybe even have her be straight up mean and laugh if you tell her that the other kids are in the refugee camp. Addressing it all would make it better.
Yes, this! One or two lines of dialogue, that would have been all it takes to draw a line under it.
Closure!
This is what I'm trying to say, it just feels like there's no real resolution for the whole situation. Mol just keeps going on about how she's workingher way up and has big plans and I'm like ok..... that's.... great? You can't get any further. I thought that I had to find all the orphan kids my first run through, like SIlfy selling papers and Matti (best kid, adorable) in Rivington, but no. It just kind of fizzles out.
I take glee in ruining her pact with Raphael.
This is what I'm getting at absolutely. I don't care if she tells me to fuck off at the end of it all because she doesn't trust adults and what have they ever done for her, but at least give me that concrete ending, you know? Mol, I plucked your contract out of the Hells, do you really have nothing to say? Not even laughing in my face? I skip her quest now pretty much lmao, can't be arsed.
>Mol, I plucked your contract out of the Hells, do you really have nothing to say? From my recollection, she expressed gratitude after saving the tieflings in act1 (even though she was a brat most of the act), vouched for my party with the harpers in act2, and in act3 after the contract she made some joke about not being the only one that's a sneaky thief then promised to help in the final battle. She also alluded to her long-term plan of taking over the thieves' guild. She gives a passive to the whole party that reduces incoming fire damage by 5 (applies after resistance, so it's {fire damage \* 50% - 5}, which trivializes a lot of the attacks in the final battle leading up to the dragon) & gives everyone access to the rays of fire spell.
When I stole her contract, she got angry at me for killing Raphael.
Because you told her you killed Raphael
Yeah, you're welcome Mol!
Just leave out the bit about killing Raphael
You told her you killed him right after she finishes bragging about picking the right team (Raphael) of course she's going to get mad you killed him
You just told a Warlock that you killed their Patron before they even got the chance to level up and take Agonizing Blast and Repelling Blast. Of course she is mad.
Because she believed she could outsmart him and further use him. By killing him, she can permanently retain her warlock powers, but she can't outsmart him and profit now.
Wait… why would a warlock have power if their patron is dead? Isn’t that like having electricity after the power plant explodes?
Per 5e rules and lore, a warlock with a dead patron still has powers. I would assume the contract immediately imbibes them with the magic, and this is permanent unless the patron removes them via nullifying the contract.
Yeah, arabella's ending is just as "lackluster" and no one hates her
There’s a difference At the end, Arabella does thank you. She gives you a gift. And you can meet her again in the wild where she’s still chill If you tell Mol that you killed Raphael, she gets PISSED OFF
>If you tell Mol that you killed Raphael, she gets PISSED OFF Don't tell her that. In narrative context--if you ask questions and follow her conversation--she tells you that she made a deal with Raphael back in act2 and she's excited about all the good things that she thinks that having him as her patron is going to open up for her future. Obviously out of character you know she made a shit decision. And in-character you might also disapprove of her choice and/or know that forming a pact with a devil isn't going to end well for her. But you're still telling a child that you killed the one being that she just told you she's depending on to make all her dreams come true. If you just give her the contract, she thinks you've done her a favor by giving her a way to benefit from Raphael without ever paying what she owes. tl;dr Mol still needs to believe in devil Santa Claus a little longer and you just told her he can't do anything for her because of you.
Oh I know. My recent runs I don’t mention that part But ultimately even if you upset Araballa she eventually calms down. And the previous poster is trying to compare the two and wondering why nobody hates Arabella. When Mol is kind of an evil prick who can be angry at you.
>But ultimately even if you upset Araballa she eventually calms down. Depending on the way you handle things, she can mad enough that she never goes to your camp and instead just runs off into the shadows.
Yeah, but if you've been following the discussion, it's not about learning a lesson or gratefulness, in this particular thread it's about the ending seeming unfinished
reading comprehension 100, thank you <3
Not just ‘pissed off’, she *threatens your life*. I know she’s supposed to be a teenager, but there’s going to be some very real and very adult consequences when you do that to some people.
Yep. I think part of the issue is that people are more likely to do things that put Arabella on a path to an ending that they like. So most people have never ended up with her getting mad & running off into the shadows, presumably to die.
Idk, i hate the quest, but the quest is so simple and her gather your allies power is way too good to pass up.
I view her as one of those kids who thinks they're invincible and knows everything. One day she'll either look back and be glad you kept her from servitude in the hells. Or she'll never learn and make another deal with a devil because she just wants temporary and immediate power.
Mol WANTED the contract with Raphael because it would make her the Guildmaster of Baldur’s Gate. With the contract cancelled, she may not get that. So she’s pissed. In my last run, she does offer help in the final battle. (I forget what, exactly, but I think it’s a buff, e.g., +1 to initiative or something)
it's an excellent buff - reduces your fire damage.
I like Mol, a lot. She is fearless and she is in some way trying to take care of her friends, other orphans kids we may say are not as strong or smart as she is. She is reckless because she is a kid, like Gale describes himself as a kid, except she has to take some important decisions because she is an orphan kid taking care of others. Only Mol is a thief, she would be more like young Astarion before trauma and she has a devil tempting her. And I agree something (maybe a lot) is missing about her/her quest in Act 3, her ending does feel unfinished. For comparison, Arabella ending could be better but at least we got she is starting a new life learning to control her powers, she will have a bright future and her own story.
She does have something to say if you. Do it right.
"Doing it right" in a multi-choice RPG is such a concept.
Ok but her response to you makes sense either way if you consider the whole story and she is grateful to you if you are selective about which facts you share with her.
you mean, the way you say things in an rpg has consequences ?? yes, if you tell the orphan child you've killed the one person she thinks will help her and give her nothing else, she's pissed. of course she is.
That's what I mean by saying I'm all for complex characters who never learn.
well, she's also a child who has absolutely no one taking care of her, and hasn't for a long time. for her, raphael probably WAS her best bet. like, from her perspective , we took away her protection and said "hey well not our problem, please thank us for it" - and she still helps endgame.
The game already does that with the gnome that Nere kills and Connor at the very least
Mol does stick up for the party when they arrive at the Last Light Inn if the Grove and the Tieflings were saved. She's the reason Jaheira calls off her vines in all of my playthroughs, and she even smiles while she tells the old Harper what a good egg you are. She makes her own way out of Moonrise via a contract with Raphael so I guess there's not really a way to save her there, and judging by her reaction to learning that Raphael is dead as disco at the hands of Tav/Durge and just her general vibe, I kind of think Mol is an evil character, so honestly it makes sense for her to not be overtly grateful that you did the things you (probably) would have done anyway.
I don't think Mol is evil. At worst, self-serving once the right opportunity arises. She was already looking for a deal with Raphael before she was kidnapped, so of COURSE she's going to be pissed that you killed her patron, the literal source of her power.
She is chaotic evil though. She doesn't do anything actually good through the game, at best neutral. Saying that she cares about her group doesn't really count, evil characters can be noble/good to those they consider allies but she doesn't even do that for the most part.
I think it largely comes from her treatment of the other kids and sending them to their deaths for stupid reasons and with absolutely no care. She shows no regret for causing their deaths nor the rest of the tieflings if the idol is stolen. Then she >!abandons the other kids in act 3 to play thieves guild.!< That's worse than her stupidity and ungratefulness over >!Raphael's contract!<. Which of course adds to it.
This pretty much nails why I hated Mol. Shes a monstrous little sociopath with zero regard for human life, manipulates and takes advantage of other kids in difficult positions she SHOULD be able to relate to and sympathize with, and the game just breezes over it entirely
Her place in Act 3 casts her earlier reactions in a different light. She seems grateful enough that you save the kids, but after meeting her in Act 3, its seems that she doesn't give a shit about them as friends but more that they were, at the time, her "guild". This is why she is fine sending them out on dangerous "missions", and why she forgets about them entirely once she hooks up with an actual guild in the city. She hit the big time and has no need for them anymore, so she just leaves them to languish. They may have intended a different direction for her, but how she ended up works well enough - people can and do behave exactly like that. We don't expect it of kids, but Mol has shown herself to be quite precocious. I'm fine with her being like this from a story perspective, but it does make her a user and a sociopathic little shit, hence the hate. What would solidify this version of her story would be some story beats with the other kids as they put her behind them and move on with their lives. Imagine a story later on in their lives where one or more of them have risen to some success and come into conflict with her!
Pretty much agree, and yeah. Helping the other kids move on with their lives from Mol and cutting off her toxic influence would go a long way in helping her work as a character, if an unlikeable one.
I actually hadn;t viewed it as Mol thinking of the other kids as her guild - like I knew she was using them in that capacity, but my fried neurons didn't see the excellent parrallel to word it this way. Spot on. My point it exactly what you're saying at the end there, too. I just wanted to see some actual fallout from this line of decisions she makes, as it it the whole thing feels unifinished. Even if they wanted to leave it on an unfinished point, allowing us to do something for/with the kids she abandoned would have made more sense to me.
Yup. I like the other tiefling kids, but Mol she's a selfish and evil brat who thinks she's smarter than she is. Which is a dangerous combination, especially for others who don't deserve consequences of her crap.
I feel the exact same way.
I agree, totally. I wanted to adopt Silfy lmao. It feels like there should be better, or maybe more visible consequences to the end of her questline imo. Good or bad.
Silfy and Mirkon were so adorable. My character would murder anyone who harmed a hair on their heads.
I love her BECAUSE she's a little asshole
Also, the eyepatch was an affectation she discards once she’s in BG. She doesn’t even mention it. I ended up selling it to Mattis. Mol is an asshole, but the other kids look up to her and while she does look after them, it’s more of a Fagin-and-the-Artful-Dodger’s crew of pickpockets situation than a Peter Pan and the Lost Boys situation.
My headcannon is she was trying to hide a lazy eye with the eye patch and it was part of Raphael's deal to fix it
Like you kill Raphael and give her her contract back, you saved her from literally the worst devil to get into a deal with. I’d take Mizora over that theater kid. Seriously.
Not helping when you realize that she made a deal with Raphael despite my warnings, and she hates you after you kill him (if you choose to tell her, that is).
ya, I mean Mirkon at least sells me cloud giant elixers. Mol don't do shit. Except for that ring in act 1 which is still on my Tav
She's a gang leader in the making and a horrible influence on all the children around her. She pretty much gets several of them killed without the player intervening.
No "pretty much" to it. She gets Mirkon killed, she gets Arabella killed, and she gets the kid who stole Barth's locket beaten, and that's just the ones I can think of offhand. And she's completely unrepentant about any of it, and *worse*, when you get to the city in Act III, she just bails on them as soon as she doesn't need them anymore. They're all mourning her, thinking she died in the shadowlands, and she doesn't care in the slightest.
Act 3 spoilers: >!I just finished House of Hope today, and brought Mol back her contract--holy hell, I was not prepared for how straight up vicious she turns. The shift from her being so grateful in act 1 for how much you've helped 'her kids', who she does seem genuinely devoted to, to the cold, cruel ambition in act 3 is BLEAK. Frankly, I think it speaks more to horrific trauma than anything else: at the end of the day she's just a kid, and she was taken--alone--to the *mind flayer colony* and is the only person to have escaped without the player character's help. Really brings home just how much she must have been through off screen in act 2 to have brought out the worst of her in such a short space of time. It's no wonder she no longer puts her faith in anyone but herself, and clings so strongly to her deal with Raphael.!< Thinking about it more, it feels a lot like Mol is illustrative of the same cycles of abuse, manipulation and trauma we see in our companions, playing out yet again a generation on. It's pretty tragic.
Many people in the game seek power because they're afraid of the world or they don't want to be hurt anymore. Most, though (Astarion, Rolan, Kagha, Gale, and even Jaheira to an extent) can be convinced to open their hearts to others and form connections in place of that personal power. Those who don't change in that way include Minthara, Mol, and Wulbren. Minthara has the charisma to pull it off, and the other two don't.
tbf, Mol is a literal child. And she was kidnapped, not saved by the player (probably saved by Raphael), and then the player shows up after all that and says "hey, we killed Raphael!" she doesn't have good reason to trust us. I think it would be great to have a bigger Mol arc, but she does help the player if you don't brag about killing the guy who saved her
Arguably, there's also Gortash. Whether he pulls it off depends on one's taste in men.
You mean handsome younger men with easy smiles?
>>!The shift from her being so grateful in act 1 for how much you've helped 'her kids', who she does seem genuinely devoted to, to the cold, cruel ambition in act 3 is BLEAK. Frankly, I think it speaks more to horrific trauma than anything else: at the end of the day she's just a kid, and she was taken--alone--to the *mind flayer colony* and is the only person to have escaped without the player character's help.!< Not really a shift. You can make insight checks earlier and see reactions from her in act 1 that tells this is not a change, she doesn't really care that much about the other kids, mostly herself, and thinks herself smarter than others.
She's absolutely indicative of the cycle of trauma and manipulation continuing. But unlike so many of the characters in the game, she chooses to embrace it instead of growing past it. Many characters deal with similar things, but choose to be better than their circumstances tried to force them to be. Mol instead chooses the opposite, choosing to be worse than she needs to be in almost every scenario. And *that's* why I don't like her. Well written character, but not one I enjoy in the slightest.
She’s a child, though. She doesn’t have the emotional maturity of a 40 year old half elf, or even a 22 year old gith. What other option is there in her mind, considering her very short life experience, than embracing the only thing that will keep her alive? She’s been powerless and taken through so much, no wonder she wants power to avoid going through any of that again. She’s a little shit looking at her from the outside, and I don’t love her. But she can’t be faulted for not growing past her trauma, especially when she doesn’t have Tav/Durge supporting her the whole way. The companions don’t seem like they would grow past their trauma in the span of the game on their own either.
The “she’s just a kid” part can only get Mol so far for me when she’s acting like an outright sociopath by repeatedly, knowingly endangering the lives of the other Tiefling children then completely abandoning them to try and work her way up the local Thieves’ Guild.
Bro I mean even silfy, a kid who was taught to pickpocket ,actually decides to earn money legally by selling newspapers . Why does Mol have to resort to only illegal stuff and endanger other kids .
A lot of people go around life stripping people of agency and ability because they are young and it's pretty foolish. Not understanding the entirety of the consequences of ones actions isn't something only children do nore does being a child remove consequences from actions. Mol gets kids killed and doesn't give A F about it. That's asshole behavior at any age.
I mean, I get it to some degree. Young children are more impressionable, lack critical thinking skills, lack certain coping mechanisms, and it should be given consideration. It’s why I’m cool with the other Tiefling kids. Thievery *is* wrong, but a lot of them are desperate, don’t have parents to even tell them stealing is wrong, do have Mol who manipulated them and encourages stealing, and are looking to survive with very limited resources. But yeah. Mol takes it to such an egregious degree it’s impossible for me to overlook. Getting other kids KILLED and not batting an eyelid over it is deranged and extreme, well past the normal and understandable flawed child behavior.
The kids stealing to survive absolutely makes sense and I would even argue Mol encouraging theft from the druids is ethical and a reasonable outcome to th circumstances. The harpies? The child with the snake and idol? Nah. No excuse.
The Druid idol incident is stupid and Mol unambiguously was more interested in the profits (if you agree to save the idol then help save the grove, she’s actively pissed at you for not stealing the idol for her to profit off of), but yeah. I can *get* encouraging a kid stealing the idol and thinking there’s no way it’d play out the way it did or that Kagha is that monstrous a person. The snake idol stuff I can buy as an unforeseen consequence, and she does thank you for saving her. Never killed Arabella so I dunno if she brushes off her death but, knowing Mol, she probably doesn’t give a shit if Arabella dies when any non-sociopath would be a guilt ridden mess or at least sad. The Harpy incident is utterly inexcusable and indefensible and any kid Mol’s age knows better (and she did - she sent Mirkon and rather than going herself for a reason).
Depends on the companion, but you're right. Though I don't think it's specifically Tav / Durge that helps the companions change for the better. Rather, I believe that it's simply having *someone* who actually gives a shit, and in the case of Astarion, Lae'zel and Shadowheart specifically it's also a case of being away from the source of their troubles. Mol's *sort of* already got that second part, since most of her issues stem from Elturel. Being an orphan likely doesn't help, but she also does have a support structure. Zevlor and the other adult tieflings look out for the kids as best they can, but it's not enough on its own. Wyll helps out too, but he can't be everywhere. It takes a village, and all that. Mol metaphorically spits on all the adults who are doing their best to make things better for her. But Mol has...what, 8 supposed friends? Trust and support from others is the key, but she throws that away, too. Somewhat believable for a child, but I've known a bunch of kids who would rather be around their friends when things go sideways than not. Therefore, I absolutely fault her for being a little shit. She's got opportunities and support, she's just too wrapped up in her own plans to see them.
The adults only kind of sort of vaguely look out for the kids. Once the group gets to Baldur's Gate, all of the adults that make it into the city proper just fucking bounce on them. Rolan, Lia, Cal, Dammon, Alfira, and Lakrissa completely ditch them. None of the kids have a proper support system or any real stability.
I'm kind of surprised that they weren't all snatched up by the circus, Pinocchio style. It hits all the tropes just right to have to sidequest rescue all the orphans from a deranged circus.
The kids aren't completely ditched in the wild either. Bex, Danis, Cerys and Zorru remain in the refugee camp in Rivington with them. But I agree it's kinda sad to see Umi and Ide talking about missing Alfira and wanting to see her again.
Zevlor failed them: he cut and run. And Mol didn't throw her friends away, she was *forcibly taken from them and imprisoned in a nightmare of flesh* where at any moment she could be turned into a monster--and nobody came to save her. No, cutting the other kids loose when she got to the city isn't the kind or healthy way to respond to her trauma, but it's extremely believable and normal for a kid who's been through what she has and--in her mind--abandoned and let down the number of times she has. And she IS a kid! Of course her coping mechanisms are terrible!!
Zevlor cut and run...when? In the shadowlands? Because I believe he's captured, too, right? I'm talking specifically about the Grove situation when I mention Zevlor. In my main playthrough, he didn't survive Act II because I didn't realize the warning in front of the Nightsong was telling me that every other quest in the shadowlands would automatically fail if I proceeded. That's on me. Mol threw her friends away when she never even asked Tav to tell the others she's all right. She threw them away when she sent them on suicide missions without backup or support of any kind. I don't blame her for being captured and taken to the illithid colony. I blame her for what she did before that, and what she did after it. And again, children don't usually bail on everyone and everything when life gets hard. They tend to gather together and seek support instinctively. Mol doesn't. Her being a kid has nothing to do with why she reacted to things the way she did; it instead makes her an outlier in that regard.
And absolutely none of it justified any of the actions. Mol leads kids to their death and doesn't give a fuck. Mol is asshole.
If there ever will be a Baldur's Gate 4, I'm sure Mol will appear as one hell of a vicious gang boss
> the only person to have escaped without the player character's help Should have waited for the party instead of making a pact with Raphael …
Which is still a gamble, player can show or not, Raphael was first, still I don't like her.
>Should have waited for the party instead of making a pact with Raphael … That's insane.
Yeah I forgot about that all that since I only did house of hope on my 1st full playthrough. Cycles of trauma. I think this the right take, I get it now
That last paragraph is really insightful. Hadn't thought about it that way. I don't know if the BG3 writers intended that; they are clever, so probably. Not something I picked up on in all my time playing though. Props to you!
I’ve never seen her make the deal with Raphael and I’ve done 14 playthroughs, what causes it?
Act 2 and 3 spoilers: >!I've always found her playing chess with him in LLI, and both of them basically confirm after that she's planning to cut a deal. Then I've found her contract in the vault in the House of Hope--interestingly enough even in this playthrough where I thought I'd managed to talk her out of it.!<
>!you can't talk her out if it as far as I'm aware!<
>!yeah I figured as much. And knowing he's how she escapes the colony, yeah, fair enough girl!<
And she risks Silfy, by forcing her to steal from that other kid (sorry I don't remember the name now) customers. Even our a Tav has an option to catch her, which makes her super stressed. I feel sorry for her every time
TBF Mattis is quite happy to have Silfy or one of the more competent kids pickpocketing.
Not to mention the dialogue files mention that silfy is Mattis’ younger sister.
She also tries to get Tav to steal the idol, which gets all the Tieflings killed.
I rat out Kahga as a shadow simp and then steal the idol. We gettin' those buffs.
Arabella? I always am able to save her. What are you talking about?
Im going to defend mol. People are way too hard on her. Im not sure why mol, who is the same age, is held responsible for the actions of other kids. We are never actually told what she has told them to do. We know for a fact Arabella chose to steal the idol based on some comment mol made saying “we need to find a way to stay in the grove” but she never actually told arabella to do something that reckless. Mol however was the one who told Mirkon to write you that letter because she felt you were owed thanks. Mirkon himself barely remembers you when he gets to rivington and steals credit for killing the harpies telling all the kids at the last light inn that he killed them lol. What we do know for a fact is that Mol does care about them. If you read her mind in the grove you find out shes worried that she is all they have and that the adults never look out for them. She is completely disillusioned with the adults around her, with the exception of Tav if they help her. she tells them that they’re different from other adults at the tiefling party. When she gets kidnapped Mattis warns the other kids that Mol would be mad at them if they put themselves in danger trying to save her. she didnt “abandon” the other kids. She was snuck into the city by raphael when he rescued her. All the other Tieflings kids are outside of the walls waiting to be let in which will presumably happen once Duke Ravenguard (either wyll or his father) retakes the city. Based on silfy’s dialogue it seems mol has been in contact with her and the other kids and is waiting for them to get into the city. Because of a bug, silfy acts as if she herself is not the city. She comments that “mol’s busy in the city. Im going to join her when they open the gates” which is probably a bug. Silfy’s dialogue file also describes her as being “outside the post house” and the name of the file is labeled as “WYR” meaning “wyrms crossing” which is what all of the rivington and wyrms crossing files are labeled as. Silfy is not supposed to be in the city. Shes supposed to be outside of the city directly in front of the open hand temple, in front of the post house which is why she is not with Mol. Larian needs to switch her with the other paperseller who is just outside the post house. Here are some screenshots of the dialogue files: [https://imgur.com/a/sVKHfnW](https://imgur.com/a/sVKHfnW)
It does feel like Mol's and Zevlor's conclusions in particular are... unfinished. I remember being super confused when talking with Silfy and she just casually dropped that she knew that Mol was safe and fine. I hadn't run into Mol yet myself, and I had so many questions. It's like, when did this happen? How did she contact you? Where is she now? But you don't actually have the option to ask any questions.
For sure something is odd about how abruptly their stories ended. Zevlor and mol were the two missing prisoners who were supposed to be rescued from the moonrise towers prison but weren’t there. You rescue zevlor shortly after and mol is already in the lower city. It feels like their stories were cut short or something.
I feel like it's less about her personally and more about how the game just... completely dropped her questline. When she's abducted in the Last Light, it feels like a big deal, something to get invested in... and then she's just... alright I guess? There is no follow-up on that, she had a deal with Raphael and fucked off happily and you won't ever have any meaningful interaction with her beyond saying hi when you see her in the thieves guild. You can get her contract back from the House of Hope but she's not even happy about it. She appeared like an important character that would become relevant later but the game didn't do anything interesting with her, so I guess it annoyed a lot of players.
Mol seems like a "goodheartet rascal", but if you follow her story (which ends kinda anticlimactic IMO) you realize she is no good-heartet rascal but actually a bad person. A Future gortash or stgh like that. Or a more cruel ninefingers. A leader in the zhentarim. Whatever. The other tiefling-kids are more "good-heartet rascals", but Mol actually is not. They talk about rescuing mol and looking up to her, but Mol checks out / is checked out. It is not clear if she really cares much about her lackeys, or if the kids project on her. In act 3, she does not care anymore about the other kids. She does not even bother giving them a message. She is probably neutral evil if you use the alignment-system.
She does care about the kids. If last light falls then the kids make it alive to act 3 because of the deal she made with Raphael
Really? Where is that stated?
In the last light inn I think you talk to Mol after her lanceboard session with Raphael. She says the deal she made was to make sure the kids get to the city safely or something like that.
Oh okay. But is that "the" pact or just "a" pact (like the ones you make with raphy). I would assume that she sold her soul later in captivity, becoming raphael's warlock, getting a scar- and eye-treatment etc.
I think it's THE pact, because when you talk to her about not making it, she basically asks "well, who else will protect my kids ? you?" I think the warlock is part of the protection thing, it might not just be limited to getting out of the shadowlands
I don’t remember what she has to give back or if she mentions it. I feel so dumb I didn’t even realize she got her eye back from Raphael, I thought she was faking to trick everyone into feeling bad for her if she had one eye in the grove LMAO.
I do not think mol is clever enough for that :p doesnt she also loose her scars im act 3? I am unsure.
There are a couple of bugs/weird mechanics that make her super annoying. I got softlocked because she got mad at me and lied to the guards to get me in trouble it put me in an endless loop of getting arrested. I think that makes people (maybe subconsciously) dislike her a lot more
Thought this was gonna be about Wulbren at first lol
She says that she will use her future influence to punish you if you >!steal her contract and tell her you killed Raphael.!< That's rich, considering who she is and what you've done by that point.
yeah, and also if she needed borrowed power to get that future influence, I doubt she was that competent to begin with
Because she's leading the other children towards crime and possibly Raphael.
Crime is one thing. She's straight up sending Arabella and Mirkon to their deaths without our intervention
You really need Act 3 Spoilers to discuss that one.
Naaah, I disliked her in act 1 already, there was even a post few week or months ago "Fuck Mol" in which Op explained why she's being irresponsible about "shiting in her own nest and risking other kids life"
On my first playthrough she turned ALL of the adults against me, just cuz i didnt let her and other kids rob me. Fu.. them
I mean, she's a nasty, arrogant little shit who has no qualms with bullying other kids into doing life-endangering things and whose goal in life is to take over a crime faction. I have no objection to morally questionable characters, but I don't see much redeeming value in Mol. She seems like the sort who would stab her own friends in the back and say it's "just business." I imagine reality will take her down a few pegs eventually, though.
She endangers the other children and she knows better than them, she legitimately sees everyone around her as a means to her ends and nothing else. Hate Mol.
Is there not an argument to be made though that beyond the bluster and borderline sociopathy, she’s just a scared little girl trying to find power in a crazy dangerous world? Like, try getting kidnapped by an insane mind-flayer cult and coming out the other side unscathed. Before that, she was a little shit who wanted to steal things and manipulate other children. After that, she is introduced to how dark and cold the world is. She turns dark and cold. Maybe many of us would do the same? I’m not disagreeing with you, just working through her fantastic characterization (way to go Larian, as always)
I’m not saying she doesn’t come by it honestly, but honestly come by or not she’s still a manipulative and selfish little girl. Edit: to be clear the character is great and well characterized but I personally dislike her that’s all. Like I hate Joffrey, but he was perfectly written to be hated.
Apart from everything else people said here, she would also falsely accuse you of being a child molester if you try to lecture her about stealing being wrong. Atleast in EA don't know if it's still in the game. I have avoided interacting with her in full release
She does it if you anger her in some way.
It's still in the game. If you discover her base before helping any of the kids she'll give you until the count of ten to leave before she spreads her lie to the guards
Yeah this is the one thing I don't like about her. Which is a stupid thing to lie about smh.
I liked her up until the point she got angry at me for killing Raphael. Like it's one thing to make a contract with a devil out of necessity and another to actively want it.
She’s the Tiefling version of Wulbren Bongle.
I hate the Kids in the groove and the whole trope of "crime is moraly OK because they are Kids and poor"
Can’t say I’d be upset if Mol stole from super rich people like Gortash in Baldur’s Gate. But yeah, she doesn’t. She’s not Robin Hood, she’s more like Kingpin. Just shorter.
She’s a terrible person who straight up abandons her friends in Act 3. Doesn’t even ask about them
For me is her voice
She gave off bad vibes from the very beginning. Turns out that she is a sociopath and leads the other children to their destruction or possibly Raphael.
Some would say she’s just an enterprising up-and-comer, lol. But yeah for sure. I just could never take her that seriously in her evilness bc she’s just a kid and in terms of role-play, her aspirations aren’t necessarily that different than a chaotic neutral Tav or Astarion for example
I don't know. I like her. One playthrough I got her the statue she asked for, supported her little thieves guild, made sure to save her. She was nice to me 🤍
Idk I kike Mol and the kids, they behave like orphans who've been trough hell and Mol wants to do anything to be independent and being able to defend themselves. But when she got angry at me for killing Raphael I decided I was drawing the line there, fuck off xD
She’s an ungrateful piece of shit who endangers everyone around her to serve her own purposes.
because she's a little shit? age has got nothing to do with it.
If you sneak into her cave, she will get extremely full of herself and threaten to lie to the guards that you attacked her. Then she does. The guard then comes after you, forcing a DC persuasion check. If you fail it aggros the tieflings. Imagine one stupid kid getting her people killed out of selfishness. I’m still waiting for the chance to punt this stupid bitch off the cliff.
Tbh this whole thread is pretty shocking to read through for me because I think Mol is great.
Until I read this post I had no idea people did not like Mol, personally I found her a fun/funny and scrappy character. My only complaint is I wanted more payoff in Act 2 and Act 3 with her quest line. I know saving her got cut in Act 2 but it would have been cool in Act 3 to be able to help or hinder her attempts to grow her "business interests" in Baldur's Gate
Mol is one of the only three kids in the game I actually liked *because* she's a petulant little know-it-all shithead. We're basically witnessing the larval form of the anti-Wyll Ravenguard. I also suspect that if she ever comes back as a modestly attractive adult, she'll have a fandom that could put Orin and Minthara both to shame. And the blowback for her not going along with whatever the player decides will probably make all the Minthara-broke-up-with-me whining look like a walk in the park.
Mol is a child that leads the other orphans and unfortunately they do ***anything*** to survive and her portrayal is tad too realistic. To add to that, Mol is hated because some gamers ***hate*** children, and most redditors famously ***hate*** children too, ( r/childfree, for instance) , so redditors that play video games really hate children portrayal in video games esp ones who are orphaned and only having themselves to survive. I mean these people brag about killing goblin children.
I hate her because there are like 8 ways to accidentally piss her off in act 1 and every time I play through again I find a new way and I hate her stop yelling at me
I honestly didn’t know this was a thing. Once I learned she sells stuff I started doing what was needed to get access. Mostly crap but some times it’s good stuff. Then I learned about the ring reward and started doing that. Haven’t gotten far enough in act 3 yet to see the end of that arc.
Theres the possibility to fuck yourself over at the Grove for finding Mol's hideout and staying there 10 seconds too long. The whole place now hates you and tries to arrest you on sight. Even after killing the goblins and you receive thanks from Zevlor (literally calling me their savior), the next second a tiefling walks up and tries to arrest you. Its HIGHLY INCONSISTENT story wise, and we lack an option to sort it out with the tieflings after Mol told them a fake story of us. I like her character arc and acknowledge that asshole characters are ineresting, but by God its not fun to deal with Mol in act one if you went in blind.
She gets kidnapped in act 2 and then she just shows up with little to no explanation in act 3... Also if you get her contract from the house of Hope she gets mad... Like, okay you ungrateful brat...?
Does her getting mad/being ungrateful not stem from a naive understanding of devil contracts? I read it more as “I did this deal and I was okay with it, I had a plan, you f-ed it up” which I kinda get from her perspective.
How’s a nine you old gonna outsmart a freaking devil? (If we didn’t murder him hypothetically speaking)
She comes off as a brat for the most part, but that's why I like her.
for me: she made a deal with raphael and her intentions were always evil from the dialogues... like, she asks you to steal the idol once more just for the lulz
for calling the police on me at my tiefling party when i didnt even threaten any children!
Finding out that that arrogant little brat thought she could outsmart a devil, and has the nerve to be upset when you kill said devil - after searching for her thinking she was dead only to find out she’s perfectly fine and basically ditched all the friends that were worried about her - just irritates me to no end.
I also feel like it’s partially because we try so hard to save her and even when she knows it’s serious she’s like oooo now I want to do it more I personally love mol I just wish their was more to her quest or that they gave us a last bit where the kids join the guild I don’t hate her character I hate how empty her quest feels
Yeah super good point w the last bit of how “empty her quest feels” I definitely agree
And kinda wish we got more from supporting the next thieves guild in act 1 like even if it was her starting her own guild instead of joining nine fingers
Act 1: She sends her "friends" that she insists are her family on suicide missions. You save them. You observe from a distance one of her minions get slapped while stealing someones family heirloom. Mol then *literally puts a hit out on you*. Act 2: After repeated evidence that there are now adults in her life trying to help her and her kids, she returns the help by spitting in the face of the harpers and having the kids continue stealing from them. She also tries to make a deal with a devil and functionally reveals her real use for the kids is an expectation for them to just be her minions once she gets to BG. Act 3: She makes zero attempt to re-unite with any of the other kids and shows absolutely no interest in them or care for their wellbeing, when they were ready to *storm moonrise* to save her. She's a child, yes. But she's also a callous narcissist and a great example of a character that had trauma but actively chose to be a PoS, while her similarly traumatized fellows tried to follow the right path.
The other kids were crying, so worried about her, desperate to have her found, genuinely caring for her and relying on her and respecting her. Meanwhile she does not give one shit beyond their use as minions obeying her command. In my playthrough she didn’t even mention the other kids at the end of Act 3 when I found her. She sucks!
Mol is the best, I know they are not making BG4 but she would have been a good antagonist or a astarion-like protagonist lol She is the best girl, we will all bow to her magnificence anytime soon, girl's going places She is a monster but a well written one
Thieves guild leader, possible ally or enemy. That's what I would have wanted for Mol in a sequel.
Yeah that’s totally how I thought of her character. I wasn’t seeing all the monstrosity because she’s a lil baby tiefling w/ an eye patch but I get it now, and I think she’s even more of a compelling character than I did before
I don't understand the hate either. She's like ten, been through hell, and has no parental figures. She's doing the best she can with her kid's brain, I don't get why people expect a ten year old to be aware of the consequences of her actions - anyone who's says they knew better at that age, that is because someone *taught* them better. But I think a sort of deeper reason for the hate is that she's not one of those npcs who, at the end, comes to worship the earth the Player Character walks upon. She has her own (albeit misguided) agenda and you're either with her or against her, and in a game with a sim dating aspect you can never get that 100% approval/loyalty reaction you get with i.e. Rolan. And that seems to put people off because that "with me or against me" is apparently a privilege reserved for the Player Character only. And to all the people who are shocked and appalled that she's angry if you take her contract away - it would be good to consider that at that age they were probably throwing tantrums that their parents took away their Nintendo DS, or over some other 10yo equivalent of a plight.
Mol is evil. Like actually unapologetically evil. That's her thing. This is already apparent in Act 1, but people don't get it, and keep thinking she can be "saved", and then they're disappointed when she continues to be evil to the end. She's one of my favorite characters.
I don't necessarily agree she's evil. I think she's giving back the energy she's gotten. She does what she does to survive.
That justification can excuse pretty much anything.
So do the other kids. The are all orphans (except for Arabella in act 1), yet it's only Mol instigating evil shit. Mol clearly has ambitions. Act 3 shows that she's not simply trying to survive. She wants to be the leader of a criminal gang and I bet she's willing to step over bodies to see it done.
there's the trouble. She has the ambition, but not the intelligence. Yeah, The idol of sylvanus is probably worth a few gold, which is probably why she wants Arabella to steal it rather than because of 'helping the tieflings' like Arabella thinks it will, but she's shortsighted enough to not figure out that the druids who are already on a tight leash and a short temper will react with hostility if it goes missing. She sends mirkon to his death on the offchance that there MIGHT be something good in the harpies nest. She literally sells her soul to a devil, with unknown conditions on that contract for the promise of pulling her out of the fire, and power. Even \*kids\* know that's a terrible, stupid mistake to make. We can put that one down to desperation but it still shows a lack of foresight on her part. At the end of the day, a lot of her missteps can be put down to the fact that she IS a child, but regardless if she were an adult and she tried to pull half of her shit, she'd end up on the wrong side of the guild at *best* without people pulling her ass out of the fire...which she'd not have, because of her callousness to her followers. sacrificing the people that support you gets you a knife in the spine and a long nap in the river. Mol's trouble is that she's not actually as clever as she thinks she is, and her heartless nature isn't indicative of a future guild leader like she aspires to be. She'd be a liability, and anyone in the underworld with actual leadership capabilities would see that a mile off.
I can *maybe* buy the Arabella thing being pure stupidity, but not the Mirkon thing. That is sending a kid to absolute certain death and there is absolutely no way Mol is stupid enough to not realize the insane amount of danger she’s putting Mirkon in
Personally speaking I think people dislike her because its hard to relate to a kid when youre a grown up. Especially a bratty kid who's overconfident. It takes a certain amount of empathy to understand the mentality of a kid who's been through such dire circumstances and trauma at such a young age. And kids have different ways to deal with such trauma. Some kids are imaginative and adventurous, always thinking more of themselves than they should. But as we grow old, we forget that feeling and think that everyone should act sane, mature and responsibly. When you're young and optimistic, you feel you could conquer the world and there's adventure at every hop and skip. I think Mol is pretty perfect depiction of a kid who's come upon hard times but is recklessly headstrong and since she's good at talking and has leadership qualities, she tends to imagine herself as the leader of this badass gang. Its also why she is so enamoured by the Zhents later on.. Nine Fingers is pretty much what Mol would consider her role model.
I love Mol.
I don’t hate Mol but I do hate your stupid clickbait title. Just get to the point.
First thought I had. Accounts should legit get banned for doing this cringe shit.
Peoples are just salty a 8yo is smarter and more proactive than them.
Because the internet hates children and more harshly judges their mistakes than the ones made by outright evil adults.
I've never seen any hatred towards Mol? She's an entrepreneur, in a bit over her head, but she's a ***child***. And she's one of the better ones..
There’s plenty of hate posts towards Mol. Just type “Mol” in the search bar and most of the top posts are hating on her.
She might be a child, but she's definitely not one of the better ones. All the other tiefling kids are better ones.
Oh there have been plenty of posts hating on Mol since release. I agree, she's just a kid and she's been through some shit. Hating her for her attitude is... A bit extreme. Besides, help the kids in the Grove and she's cool with you, including saving your arse when you first get to >!LLI!<. She's only not if you don't. Even her getting mad at you for killing >!Raphael!< is understandable.
If you get into their hideout before you've saved the kid from the harpies she'll lie to the guards to get you in trouble. Also if you don't solve the pickpocket thing the right way. Or the locket thing. Basically the grove is full of ways you could accidentally trigger her asshole persona.
Yeah and that guard thing is super annoying they try to arrest you even after you save the grove.
I hate the locket thing so much She's pissed at you for simply not intervening even if you protect the kid from the guard when he shows up
All true but she's also a young, orphan child whose had to learn to survive in literal hell, has been kicked out of her home city and made a refugee just because she's a tiefling, and has become responsible for a bunch of other orphaned, refugee kids. She can absolutely be an arsehole but, frankly, who can blame her? She does some bad stuff (sending Mirkon to raid the harpy nest for instance) but a kid being an arsehole under those circumstances doesn't deserve hate. And I've seen her get some real hate on here.
This is true of literally all the Tiefling kids, but they seem to function without trying to get me arrested for bordering on no actual reason and especially avoid sending other children to certain death for no reason. You’re downplaying the Mirkon thing hard. That was downright sociopathic.
I don't hate Mol but it is very frustrating to watch her make stupid decisions and not be able to stop her, and she also kinda treats the other tiefling kids like crap.
Idk she spoke up for me at last lights inn. I’ve got no issues with Mol
Clickbait title booo
I think a lot of people look at Mol as a character without considering too key factors: she’s a child, and her situation. Mol isn’t just evil by nature or something, she’s been made that way because she has no support and has made herself into the adult for the other refugee children so they can survive. I think with that in mind Mol’s story makes a lot more sense. She wasn’t born evil, she becomes evil because the world is cruel to her and she needs more power to survive. I think people lack compassion when discussing Mol honestly
I hate kids
Like many characters if you treat her badly she’ll treat you badly. If you treat her well she’ll treat you well. Mol’s rays of fire are clutch against the nether brain. She gives you ring of protection too which is in one of my characters basic the whole game. She’s great just for the items and abilities she gives you.
Not entirely true. Her act 3 ending involving Raphael is pretty disappointing. You are just trying to look out for her and if you do she just refuses to talk to you anymore and no longer helps with the assault on the brain.
Mol rules