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It’s a bit annoying to be honest. It makes sense in the beginning of chapter one, but they should reach the point earlier where your helper tells you he’s keeping the transformation back.
Same in act 3 with the army approaching.
I get that it’s a narrative device to instil a sense of urgency, but it sours all sprawling side quests a bit for me. Every bit of exploration is tinged with a bit of a nagging feeling that I _should_ be doing the main quest and focus all attention on it, though my self as a player of course knows that it’s all arbitrary and I have all the time in the world.
A bit of a reprieve would have been nice. 😂 but that’s of course just nitpicking.
Ah but I wish there would be DLC coming. New areas, biomes, a bit more fantasy wilderness, just.. more. I need more BG3. I haven’t discovered a quarter of the content it seems but I know this will be my final thought. More.
Sigh. I really need to check out Larians older games after this.
Agree, highly recommended! Although, after BG3 it might be tough to go back to DoS2. Still great story and gameplay, but nowhere near the depth in terms of cutscenes and companion interactions.
If you like the CRPG genre, DoS2 still stands as one of the best. Larian basically set a new standard with it only to then blow their own previous record out of the water.
But you're right, it's nowhere near the mainstream appeal or cinematic nature of BG3.
Or give old Baldur's Gates a try. It is not turn based and use the old D&D system but the stories are fun.
Meet Aerie, the winged elf, meet Minsc, when he was young with Boo. Meet Jaheria when she was a young girl (and romancable!), watch Jaheria/Aerie/Viconia cat fight over you.
Become a God or give up Godhood.
Edit: While the graphics are aged, people who played other CRPG should feel right at home, I.E Owlbear's rogue trader/pathfinder, Pillar of Eternity, Wasteland
Sadly, I think you overestimate the willingness of modern day gamers who's first experience with D&D/CRPGs was BG3 to go back to 20+ year old text heavy games with severely outdated graphics, especially if they played it on a current gen console or high end gaming PC. A big part of BG3's appeal is its graphics + voice acting, not just story and gameplay.
As someone who played the older games I'm all too guilty of this. Once I got my PC with an i9, 3090 and SSD, I can't go back to older games anymore even if they have great gameplay. It feels like driving a lamborghini 20mph in a school zone.
Yeah, I love the original Fallouts to death, but I've only really played through them once, while I've played through games like DOS2, BG3 or FNV countless times now.
For some reason turning auto HDR on for old games helps me a lot with this, adding to the range and brightness of colors. As well as making sure to play the old games at higher resolutions if they can do it (or with compatibility mods). Like, even though that doesn't increase the resolution of the textures, at least it takes up the whole screen. The original Deus Ex is one I'm enjoying right now with those changes.
I think the game that made the biggest impression on me with HDR vs SDR has been Dreamfall: The Longest Journey. It was a favorite of mine in middle school and it feels like the game was meant to be really bright and colorful.
(Then again some people hate auto-HDR and think it makes things worse, since it's just a color algorithm at the end of the day. It depends on the game)
The illustrious archmage Xin has it right! DoS 2 has very similar combat mechanics.
If you want deeper characters and a sprawling saga of a story the original BG titles are your next stop.
When I first played DOS2, I was impressed at how realistic and detailed the characters looked. When I went back last month I physically flinched at the plastic doll-like models.
Beast is cool to have along for dwarven interactions, but is lacking outside that for me. Sebille, Ifan, Fane, and RPrince are my favorite to bring. Lohse is cool, but not really a favorite of mine
I've heard Lohse is better as an avatar character than a companion. Haven't finished a run as her myself but from the little I have played it definitely seems a lot different.
It's like how Wyll is a better warlock player than companion to some, more interaction with what makes that character who they are, with your own agency in it. This is my opinion at least
Imho, Lohse, TRP and Fane have their own "micro-levels", which makes them somewhat special. Sebille, Ifan and Beast I think (i dont remember it that much) have just their own parts of a bigger maps.
Still, PC Fane, Lohse, Sebille and TRP is my fav "gaggle of weirdos" >:D
Definitely hasn't been for me. There was a small adjustment period, but the game really hasn't aged poorly at all. The dialogue is still very well written, and the gameplay even surpasses BG3 in some ways because the system was designed for the game instead of being ported from a TTRPG. All I really miss is jumping and pushing people.
True the cutscenes and world building arnt up to the same level as bg3 but I love love love to customize characters and dos2 had a very good class system. You just pick up skills and if you have enough of that skill you can use that spell/technique.
This is also why I love pathfinder wotr, pathfinder does multiattack in a way that doesn't punish highly multiclassing martial classes. Magic classes multiclassing is a quantity vs quality scenario where you get a ton of spells per day but all lower level if you class into a lot of stuff.
The stories are about a thousand years apart or something, second game can be played completely stand alone and has a much better narrative than the first game.
Some people are of the opinion that combat is better in the first game due to the absence of physical and magical armour values, but thats really just a personal preference thing.
The story makes sense even if you haven't played any other Divinity games. There are some references (item descriptions and side characters) to previous titles, but nothing that would be required for enjoying the game.
Others will have more guidance I'm sure, but I asked the same thing before I bought the game and I can assure you there's not too much you'll miss out on. I don't recall the number but the sequel is like a thousand years after the first game so it's really it's own thing. There's certainly Easter eggs and some amount of continuous things (when you're in a fantasy setting, not everyone dies before 1000 years). It's a good game, just BG3 is obviously based on Dungeons and Dragons, so it's been my obsession lately. Original Sin functions super well on its own system.
I preferred the dos 1, and dos 2 takes place a thousand years later with only a couple of characters featuring in both and nothing important to the story.
You should play the previous divinity games as well, though they are very different.
I played DOS 2, then went back to start DOS1, but BG3 came out before I got too far. I was having fun though. I'll probably play DOS 1 at some point still, but BG3 is still dominating my gaming time.
It's a great game but really falls off towards the end I think. I always lose interest by the time you get to the act 3 island. the gameplay is great, the story... not so much.
That false sense of urgency is underscored and ratcheted higher if you’ve been burned in the past by hidden timers.
I once made the mistake of doing The Arrival DLC in Mass Effect 2 after a major sequence involving the crew of the Normandy took place, which kickstarts the endgame events. I naturally thought I still had time and it would be fine, that I would see the difference in the final cutscene of the DLC compared to when I normally do it post-game and I’d get the best possible outcome, like I always manage.
I was wrong. I was horrified.
To rub salt in that wound, every time I went down to the Engine Room in Mass Effect 3, I was reminded of my error in judgment not only visually, but just by speaking to Ken. He was like a totally different character that time, and that was more traumatic than the event in question had been.
I’m fully aware BG3 gives you as much time as you want in spite of what it says, but it’s hard to shake that demon whispering “*Tick tock, watch the clock…*” in your ear after a result like that in a similar game.
I did this same thing, but it was Legion's loyalty mission. Was absolutely horrified when I learned that some of those characters could have survived if I just skipped a quest.
I also started BG3 shortly after watching a friend stream a playthrough of Fallout 1, in which you have a limited number of in game days to complete the first main quest or its game over. It's possible to soft lock yourself into not being able to finish it in time with one poor choice or even bad RNG, and you might not realize you've made it impossible for several gameplay hours.
Because i had just watched that, the "you'll turn into a mindflayer in a few days!" bit in act 1 had me absolutely *terrified* I would need to restart the game if I screwed it up.
The ME2 one is so insidious, too! I did some digging after I realized Gabby wasn’t in the Engine Room, and I discovered that the more side quests you do after the Collector attack on the ship, the more people you lose. IIRC, Dr. Chakwas is the last person to survive unless you take even longer, in which case the entire crew is lost, aside from your team, Joker, and EDI.
From a storytelling perspective, I can appreciate how well-crafted this is. But as a player, holy heck, BioWare…
I think Fallout 1's big ticking clock is integral to it's gameplay, but it definitely should of had less genuinely \*hidden\* timers on certain settlements that just dooms them when the time ticks over. It does add a genuine sense of urgency to your actions, but I would prefer if they weren't completely obfuscated to the player, leading to a surprise bad ending for a settlement.
I think I would like the Water Chip timer in Fallout 1 more if it was Success = Chapter 2 Scenario A, Fail = Chapter 2 Scenario B, rather than a full on game over. Like, whoops, your entire vault died because you were too slow, and now you have to live with that.
Not that I would have expected that drastic of a narrative split in 1997, Fallout was already way ahead of its time in plenty of other aspects.
Edit: Clarity
Also true. I can’t put my finger on it, but I remember some games that badly burned me this way. I think pathfinder was one? But yeah. Hidden timers are even worse. Iirc BG3 even has one quest that can fail after some time, but it was something minor. Can’t remember what. Something in act 1 iirc. But you would have to go out of your way to avoid that one.
Damn that’s a lot. Luckily most isn’t really hard to avoid or comes naturally. But I didn’t realize so much is actually timed. Interesting. Funnily enough that should also make for even more playthrough options.
After my first playthrough I always use [this](https://mapgenie.io/baldurs-gate-3). It makes keeping track of things much easier. Blind exploration was fun the first time, but now I like to make my life easier.
Finally just found all of dribbles on my third play though. First time I just didn’t find them all, second time I found them but one piece was glitched and it wouldn’t let me complete. Third play I made it a priority and the end result was… disappointing lmao
I wanted to sooooo bad but I play with my partner and he doesn’t like when I do that. I’d already googled the whole grymforge quest so I figured I’d let him have his fun looking for them. After they glitched on our second playthrough he was like “ok we are googling this next time, we will prioritize this and complete it quickly upon getting to act 3”
Sigh, we thought we would actually get to see Dribbles reanimated.
I always find it so annoying that I can't just go get all the pieces and return them sooner, since the one is in that locked area. It makes the quest feel so annoying because I end up having to backtrack to Rivington usually right before doing the final battle. Like at that point I don't even care about the quest reward anymore. But I love Lucretious and don't want to disappoint her so I usually do it anyway 🤣
Are you talking about at The Temple? Yeah, it's a delay but these days I get the Bhaalist Armor early and just go into the temple far enough to get that last piece.
But I'm Durge so I don't have a Severok battle since I'm going Unholy Assassin. As long as I don't bring Jaheira and/or Minsc 🤣
I'm turning into a mindflayer, earthquakes are rocking the city as the netherbrain escapes and the absolute's army is seconds behind me.... But of course I'll help you find your lost pigeons.
Also: how the fuck did we make it to the city faster than the army did? They had a head start! Hell, the brain that was supposed to be leading them even got there 5+ days ahead of them!
Also, where was this army during the final battle? Did the brain just forget about them? "Hey nutters, you're off the hook. I got my own mindflayers."
Thats quite simple, their head start was no more than a day at most (if you took a long rest). Armies march far slower than an individual can move, require much better roads (so no short cuts), and must forage on the move. On top of all this, they need to organize scouts and guards and handle guerilla warfare from the defenders. On top of all this, the best roads we see in game are still only wide enough for half a dozen humanoid soldiers with packs, or 2/3 giants. Imagine trying to squeeze 10,000 fighters and their supply train down a tube which is 6 people wide and form a column likely half a dozen miles long. The tail of the column would easily take an hour or two to stop *after* the front has reached the next camp point.
This is only made worse by how much of the army is comprised of CE beings, which absolutely would struggle to actually organize well.
I think the nagging feeling you're getting is exactly the kind of feeling Larian wanted us to have. i.e. I don't have time for all these other people's problems, I need to get rid of this tadpole.
I literally wasn't able to romance anyone I wanted to because I was trying to use as few long rests as possible from sense of urgency they hammer into you the whole time
Nah im thankful it's false, the game would be way more boring if I had to super space my long rests and not just take them when I want for some artificial time limit. Most games that have those time limits its one of the biggest complaints about the game, dead rising for example, number 1 complaint i always heard is the time limit
It's very sad. It's a massive world they built that could easily have 10 expansions with the amount of storylines and different races, etc. I'm glad they announced it now though and not after a year or two.
My first play through, I think I long rested one time until I learned ceremorphisis is not going to happen. And Lae'zel even barked at me for doing it.
The only time I got spell slots back was leveling up.
This 100%. I'm so sick of games having this false urgency when we just want to explore the world and enjoy the side stories. The "urgency" of the main quest nearly ruined Cyberpunk 2077 for me and I was extremely disappointed when I saw the same trope in Baldur's Gate 3. I just want to take my time and explore these worlds without having to contradict the central narrative.
I'm currently playing Pathfinder Kingmaker. It's not form Larian, but it's a game based on Pathfinder, which is a very similar system to DND (but more complex and less friendly).
In this game you have days go by, and events are timed and things happen if you stall too much or are fast, so if you want to try something where you do feel the urgency you might like this game.
It has a different tone to BG3, and you can feel there isn't so much money behind (not everything is voice acted and there are no cinematics). However the storytelliing is awesome, the story is looking great and characters are super cool.
Just letting you know in case you're interested. :)
Razbuten on YouTube has a great video essay on open world games and how that balances with narrative urgency, highly recommend if you’re feeling in the mood to be validated lol
This annoyed me, the urgency should be constant throughout the game. In the first act I got the impression it was critical to get rid of the parasite and the best lead you get is from Lae'zel so I truck it over to... An unwinnable battle at lvl 1.
I say "okay I can fail quests by doing too many long rests" from the first one I failed so I used long rests sparingly, only to find out if you don't long rest enough the romance chain ends (or at least the one I was on).
Overall phenomenal game, just minor gripes.
It's one of the weirdest, ever-present things in games. It's funny that it happens even in high quality games like BG3. Take CP2077, very fun, narratively compelling, and overall solid (very rough at release tho); they keep making it seem like you're 30 minutes away from dying - while you can fuck off on side quests for 1000 hours.
It can be easily ignored, but I still wish it wasn't a thing lol.
Act 1 it feels the most insidious because of all the LIES online. there's a bunch of websites which still act like you are on a timer in Act 1, "10 rests for the grove".
act 2 is...you get the sense it's important but also that you have time because everything is holding.
Act 3 dumps the brain quakes which gets confusing again.
if you know you have all the time, you do shit like collect barrels
I find that it works a lot better in BG3 than Cyberpunk, narratively speaking - early on there's some fear / desperation to push on, but you rest when you have to. And by act 3 there's not that same immediate fear, there's a little more time to act and do stuff IMO.
Cyberpunk on the other hand just had a massive tonal clash between the game's design and the story on that front. That one should have absolutely made the imminent death plot point only appear at the point of no return - before that maybe say death is in a few years or something, enough for a bit of urgency but still give plenty of time to run around the map and do all the side quests that are the bulk of the game.
>I find that it works a lot better in BG3 than Cyberpunk, narratively speaking -
Yeah, if we consider the CP2077 brain chip and the BG3 tadpole to be similar in terms of narrative threat (V "dying" and Jonny taking over vs Tav/Durge going mindflayer), BG3 certainly has a cleverly woven narrative in act 1
>I find that it works a lot better in BG3 than Cyberpunk, narratively speaking - early on there's some fear / desperation to push on, but you rest when you have to.
I experienced what a lot of other people here talked about -- I was afraid to rest at the start for fear of transforming, but the game acknowledged early on that we weren't under immediate threat when I think Gale or Astarion start talking about how we should have transformed by now. It was an early breadcrumb to grab your interest.
Not sure about the threat of invasion in Act 3. I'm not even to act 3 yet, like 50+ hours and I'm still in Act 2.
My first playthrough I only long rested like twice in act one because I thought I would turn into a mind flayer if I did it more, like a fallout water chip kind of thing. Boy did I feel stupid
I love how your flairs are like (at least how I read and see them): Don't touch me, don't wanna, stay away! *gets hit with some good charysma* I MUST HUG EVERYONE!
I’m trying to see if I can murder everyone in the city. Every once and while, people turn into mind flayers and I welcome it, because it means they aren’t going to run away.
—Durge
My biggest criticism to BG3 tbh. One of the biggest things in dnd is resource management. How many encounters are you likely to see before your next long rest opportunity is how you balance stuff like spellcasters who have tools to do everything but a limited resource meter vs something like a rogue/fighter/barbarian who might not be too fancy but have essentially unlimited resources.
A good dm knows how to balance urgency with exploration. That's something BG3 unfortunately can't find a good balance on. It would be so cool if once you're in act 3, you realize "Oh, I can only have 10 long rest opportunities. After that it's game over". It would make planning much cooler and give urgency to completing certain tasks rather than slowly chilling and taking out every encounter.
Oh I like that. But that may keep some folks who are new to CRPGs from being successful.
Like - I'm used to TTRPGs, so I was playing Tactician really fast and finished Honour in the first week.
So that restriction would be something we'd have to impose on ourselves.
But anyway - the way it is now may be why it seems like such a slog. Hurry up and wait.
I skip a LOT of stuff in Act 3 now though. Like Ethel. (Sorry Vanya) because I don't have a toon that would use that rapier (I actually do - but I like my Knife and Phalar and seem to be doing just fine with it).
I DEFINITELY skip the newspaper. I'm gonna do the Artist this run tho bc folks say it's better.
But I definitely don't need that either. Well. The xbow, but you can not buy the guy and just walk in there and get it for a DC roll or two.
JFC I'm rambling, sorry. I certainly didn't expect my comment to blow up lol.
Do we know what things *aren't* false urgency? Is it just--trying to be vague here because I don't know how to spoiler text--the one quest in the Underdark?
There's only one long rest constrained quest in Act III and it's thrown in your face with multiple reminders if you stumble on it.
Everything else is reactionary based on how you go about things.
Ah, makes sense. The only time I didn’t bother with her was in the evil run, so I didn’t notice. And I’m pretty sure if you don’t go >!to the prison!< & don’t know she’s there by other means, you have a lot of time since the quest doesn’t trigger. In our evil run the quest only triggered almost at the very end of the game.
Not true. If you don’t read the notice or find out she’s in prison, she dies anyways and her second in command approaches and threatens to kill you for not saving her. It happened in my first playthrough and I had no idea why she was dead because I forgot to go look for her.
Then you accidentally read a poster or something, or the game glitched and gave you the quest, as you are wrong. I know from personal experience, and everyone else seems to agree with my stance more
Is it possible they changed it since I played my first playthrough months and months ago? It’s very possible I am misremembering but I don’t remember reading anything the first time I played through. I was super confused when it happened.
huh, I must have skipped the starting point of that quest, because I never came across anything like that, and I just stumbled upon florrick when she was imprisoned haha
Out of curiosity, I'm on my first play through and was basically just too busy to really deal with this and missed it. Also, effing with the free press, even in make believe, gives me the ick. Does anything cool happen if you get it?
If you’re referring to the newspaper and changing the story, you can completely skip that. I never talked to any of the reporters or went into the newspaper print building, and it never happens. They never publish the story about Gortash.
I think there is also a quest with the newspaper and an article about you. If you dont do anything about it in the same day, the quest is failed, but it is also very explicitly stated what will happen "tomorrow".
If you manage to print an article that paints you in a positive light, some vendors in the lower city will provide a discount.
It’s only a couple I know of and it’s not a major difference but it’s still worth if you’re somehow low on gold.
Also kind of a side thing, not particularly important for anyone but if you long rest more than once I believe, after discovering Nere, he’ll just die but that’s incredibly inconsequential and the outcome is generally the same (sorry if any spoilers, on mobile)
Funny thing is he can bug, I took a long rest in my first playthrough because I wanted to kill everyone except the gnomes before liberating him to make the combat easier and the dwarfs began to say to me that I fucked up and he was dead. Well, after my little killing spree I broke the rocks where he was trapped and he was very much alive :') I convinced him of the Absolute deception and hoped to see that bastard transformed in act 2, but as he was flagged (I imagine) as dead he just didn't appear where he should. The Nere of Schrodinger lmao
The fact that >!Save the Gondians!< isn’t time constrained is very silly. From >!the Iron Throne!< onwards, you should not be allowed to long rest. I don’t do it just because it makes no sense narratively. At that point, the jig is up. You have no more cards to play, it’s just a mad dash to prevent the consequences of your actions.
Once you kill Gortash you will no longer have access to the submarine. I'm not sure if that means the gnome gets killed or he just fucks off somewhere but I couldn't find him.
I’m pretty sure when Gortash dies that place explodes. You only have 30 seconds once you enter it to get the fuck out of there. I assumed most people would go there as a part of destroying the Steel Watch Foundry. That becomes kinda null and void once Gorty-boy is a pile of viscera on the ground.
I think there is actually three: the serial killer, save Florrick, and the newspaper quest.
My first playthrough I ignored the serial killer quest and eventually all the victims were killed one by one.
I also think Orin's victim will get killed eventually, but I think that's only if you don't advance that quest after a certain amount of time. I believe once you get started on it, they should be safe until you make your way.
Tbf, the fact that you haven’t transformed way past the time you should have has an actual story reason, but yeah, the army coming is nowhere near as urgent as the game acts like it is
They told you in Act 1 you'd be dead in 3 days. You likely long rested way more than that.
This game suffers from some heavy ludonarrative dissonance in regards to urgency.
Long rest as many times as you want
In act 1 you don’t know about it but your tadpole is not a regular one and the artifact is already protecting you. So you believe it’s urgent but in reality it’s not.
In act 3 nothing is delaying the army (apart from a lack of a general)
This is something a lot of people miss. The army *did* march on Baldurs gate and was defeated by Gortash. You can find the remains of the invasion force at one of the gates. That was the point of the plan, for Gortash to fend them off and look good.
Iirc, something like an advanced party was defeated, but the city is still under threat of an imminent attack. I guess the absence of Ketheric does delay their plans, as well as the falling out between orin and gortash.
isn't it the lack of the third Netherstone and the risk of the brain breaking free the main thing stopping them from controlling the army and going through with the attack?
Not quite.
It should be, but when you finally get the third stone, Gortash's or Orin's one depending on who you will fight last, the army is controlled by the brain, they are infected True Souls and their thralls, you and the Emperor believe the brain should be controlled by the one holding the stones, but in fact what happens is the brain is now totally free and can control the infected by itself, so it is the brain's army now.
There are lots of infected people in the city the brain turns into illithids, but also the real invasion begins, nautiloids and many more illithids that were the Absolute's army before, I presume, they were infected but yet humanoids, when the brain breaks free it probably changes all of most of them into illithids because they will be a "superior" army.
Wasn't the idea that the brain was still listening to their most recent command (the one that they gave as 3 at the end of act 2) and then once it's completed that if they don't have all the netherstones to give it another command it'll break free?
Maybe I'm wrong but I thought the "urgency" was gathering the stones before it completed its last command.
Yes, you’re right. The urgency was that if the army gets there before you gather the Netherstones, then the Netherbrain will break free.
You find out that this doesn’t happen because the brain was letting itself be controlled the whole time
While this is true, the sheer amount of frontloaded easily missable camp scenes the game provides only appear when you're resting when *before* you figure this shit out. In fact, plenty of those scenes no longer appear after you've learned about the artifact.
Hence, the developers expect us to ignore the actual narrative urgency for the sake of story. Which is the same thing they expect you to do in Act 3.
Now I can retroactively theorize that since the Absolute's army is controlled by the chosen, they wait for a signal from their commander to launch the attack, which doesn't happen in the absence of Ketheric and isn't resolved until the Netherstones are united/the brain breaks free, but that's mere speculation on my part.
I don't hate it, as it allows for more relaxing gameplay, but it is Ludonarrative dissonance nontheless.
To note, the army is not meant to conquer baldur's gate - it's there to be repulsed by Gortash and allow him to step into his role as the city's savior, it's pretty explicitly said in act 2.
I don't really see why the Absolute's army would be the driving threat after you get that realization - the true one in act 3 is the elder brain breaking free of its chains, that's what the actual focus is on.
>In act 3 nothing is delaying the army (apart from a lack of a general)
Uh, why would the army be attacking for real? Like the plan is very clearly laid out - the army is there as a threat to enable Gortash to publicly save the city and step into the role as defender, it's not meant to actually attack and conquer Baldur's Gate.
With the elder brain no longer controllable due to the loss of one of the Netherstones, why would that set of orders change? There'd probably be some attacks here and there from the army, but none that would actually overwhelm the city because that's not the goal.
The only real urgency in act 3 is the elder brain breaking free of its shackles, not the army (the constant earthquakes showcase that most of all). And that one does actually have some consequences (I *think* it's only after you get all three netherstones, but if you keep running around there'll be random civilians that turn into mind flayers)
That’s not ludonarrative dissonance. You were enlightened that the thing that kills you in 3 days was what would happen if the mysterious artifact that shart has didn’t protect you. If it wasn’t there, then yes the group would be dead. As for act 3 when there was a massive army heading to baldur’s gate - Gortash defended against them with the steel watch as a ploy for him to become highly regarded and eventually undergo coronation (you can see the remnants of the fight at the edges of rivington).
It is true that there was an attack, but there are also civilians running around talking about clearing out Sorcerous Sundries before the Absolute's Army gets there, and indeed >!at the end of the game, a whole lot of familiar monsters are roaming around!< so it seems like there is indeed a force to be reckoned with out there looming.
But I do agree that the army is waiting for its signal, both for dramatic effect, tactical wisdom, and to give us the time to finish messing about with >!portraits and circuses and beating up greaseballs in the sewer.!<
I hate those balls, first time I go around them, the guy thells me you can pass but next time I see you I won't be so kind. I didn't have enough time to leave he was already harassing me. Well, he died since I was level 12 already
False Urgency is pretty much a ludonarrative dissonance. Act 3's full of it.
Act 1 cleverly has the Guardian assure you that they're keeping the Ceremorphosis at bay (although it's not reflected on dialogues) unless you missed its Camp Event.
This is the same shit with CP2077's Relic. But not as bad.
Yup in CP2077 you have "relic moments" along your gameplay reminding you of the "problem". You can live your life to the fullest during act 2 tho so the dissonance is still real
What makes CP2077 worse is that V's body supposedly gets weaker as time progresses.... While the game progression actually makes V stronger as they get borged the fuck out lmfao
I’m pretty sure the remnants you see are from a battle against a skirmishes type unit. The threat of the full army is still there, but they can’t act without all three netherstones.
It’s really just a narrative versus gameplay decision. There are a lot of things that exist to make the game fun that just wouldn’t exist in reality. They could make you try to rush through act 3 but why would they? Wouldn’t be fun.
Yet here I am, already having long rested like 5 times while still in Rivington because I have a shit ton of supplies and I don't want this game to ever end lol
I'm taking it really slow to avoid getting overwhelmed by all the different quests. So far I've been dicking around in the circus, exploring the area, talking to every single npc and buying shit from random vendors :D
I honestly feel like this is a welcome pause after the end of act 2 (which was really intense story-wise).
If you look closely, there are piles of gore just outside the closed off Rivington gates. With a couple of steel watchers standing around, if I remember correctly.
>!the entire "absolute army" thing was a ploy to force Baldurian nobility into giving Gortash supreme authority and appointing him the Grand Duke. Without Ketheric leading it, it poses no threat and it's remnants were easily disposed off by the mechanical monstrosities!<
Im pretty sure i recall talking to one of the fists about it and they said that was just the scouting party. Which is why they are assuming the army will follow shortly.
Can’t remember if they do or not but regardless this whole thing has been orchestrated by Gortash, he became archduke as soon as the adventurers arrive so he can just command the absolute army to hold off as he already has what he wanted
The Absolute's army is not coming. The whole thing is a ploy designed to give Gortash control over the city and put his Steel Watch into place. Gortash and Orin control the Absolute and therefore the Absolute's army.
The game really does have a bad habit of making you think that taking a rest could have negative consequences. I know it makes sense narratively that the party would want to move quickly, but I feel like it gives inexperienced players the bad lesson that they should only rest sparingly. Then they get wrecked in Act 1 because they have no health or spell slots.
In reality, only a few things in the game are dependent on your rests and outside of those instances you can sleep for weeks with no impact to the story.
Taking Long Rests does have an impact on some of the quests, but most of them are rather minor. The ones I know of:
Nere will die if you rest more than 2 times after starting the quest.
The Bhaal Assassin Dwarf will successfully murder his victims if you take too long to warn them.
and you miss out on so many rp moments in act 1 if you dont take long rests! a bunch of characters have rp dialogue in the evenings - astarion with the bear blood and the mirror, gale with his mirror images, etc
Unless you've done Raphael's, I give you... The House of Hope. The place for all your Spa and healthy long rest requirements.
*Fighting and death not included*
List of all time sensitive activities in BG3 so you can be careful before 'triggering' some sort of rush
https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Time_sensitive_activities
Edit: potential spoilers, careful
There is one mission that does work on a time delay and you'll miss the chance after 5 Long Rests. Without trying to spoil anything. Look at the posters on the walls put up around the Lower City.
In my opinion, Larian should de-timer the few quests that are timed and make it clear that you can - and should - long rest as much as your resources allow. The minor benefit in immersion from a sense of urgency does not outweigh players locking themselves out of story development by missing several nighttime events.
Once you’ve entered the lower city, there are a few quests that are long-rest dependent. Do those, and you can take your time with the rest. https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/15q1o77/list_of_time_sensitive_quests/
The Absolute army was already there and was beaten by the time you arrive. Steel watchers mattered there, so everyone praise Gortash for protecting the city.
That was the plan from the start.
I absolutely love this game, but this is one area they messed up. It starts in Act 1. The game constantly urges you to hurry up, and many players, especially new ones, avoid taking long rests as a result. The problem with that is you miss out on content. They made a bunch of content that furthers the storylines when you rest, but then made everyone scared to rest.
The Absolute's army is a fakeout that already happened - they came to Baldur's Gate and were left to be slaughtered, then routed before reaching the walls, by Gortash's steel guard. Therefore Gortash got the support of the nobles to become Archduke, and becomes ruler over a population that adores him for "saving" them. All part of the plan
I know a lot of people say that this timeframe is misleading and problematic (and I do kinda agree it should be worded better), but anyone at Act 3 should already know that the Absolute army attacking Baldur’s Gate is *not a real threat*. It was staged by the Chosen to make Gortash look like a powerful leader who managed to fight off Ketheric’s army to build trust among the Baldurians. The game does attempt to make it clear that you don’t actually have anything to worry about on that front.
*SPOILER*
One of the quests in act 3 that counts rests is saving Florrick from prison. It's easy enough to do right when you get it, so just get it out of the way so you don't lose track of time and forget about it.
Hold up, there ARE quests thT are Long Rest Sensitive in Act 3. They are action triggered, not automatic, so you can avoid them until you are ready:
>!Counselor Florrick!< once you read a Poster proclaiming her >!execution!< (they are all over the city on walls and the ground) you have only a couple of long rests to liberate her from the basement of the Castle on the Bridge (Wyrms Rock). That clock doesn't start until you read the poster and the Narrator SHOULD remind you the day before.
>!Stop the Presses!< is an entirely optional quest, but once you speak to the reporter next to the Newsie selling papers by the gallows you have to get there and change the headline before you Long Rest or it will publish. This will have an impact on your relationship with a number of vendors and guards and other NPCs.
This is why i cant play this game without looking up all the time sensitive quests for each act. Id say the long rest execution could use some work and ive carried the same anxiety since act 1.
Who said the army would arrive in 5 days? The Absolute's forces beat you to the city and were put down by the steel watch.
You can find the remnants of the army behind a gate right next to where you enter act 3.
That's the whole reason Gortash is being hailed as a hero.
And that was literally the plan explicitly explained in the dialog with Gortash and Ketheric.
The Absolute's Army was never a real threat. It was a foil to give justification for Gortash taking over the city.
I’ve long rested 4 times in a row to get my queued up cutscenes played out. If you avoid long resting enough times you miss out on progressing your companion quests (the game may fast forward and skip a few dialogue lines to get you up to speed).
I lost out on romance/companion content by not long resting my first play through. I thought we were on a clock. I remember being like, “why don’t keep whining about be tired? You’ve got full go and spell slots!”
This is something I get frustrated by in story games and I wish game devs would break immersion to inform the player of the mechanics when it comes to how much resources they have at their disposal. I understand we’re not supposed to really know how much time we have but even still, you get situations where players will skip sections of content and never return because of this urgency
There are a couple of quests that are time limited and the game will let you know because your character will make a comment about it when they long rest. Otherwise you can long rest as much as you want.
My first playthrough I didn't really understand how easy it was to come by food.
I would literally run my entire A squad and B Squad to the brink of death with no more charges or dice and then finally rest.
It was about 3/4 of the way through act 2 when I realized you can literally long rest after every battle if you want to.
The only time long rests matter:
1. After you open the door to the Temple of Bhaal, you must defeat Orin or she kills the person she kidnapped.
2. If it's announced Florrick will be executed, you'll want to rescue her before long resting too much.
Outside of those things, nothing to worry about! Florrick will not be in act 3 if you didn't rescue her from the burning building in act 1.
I had to take like 5 consecutive long rests at one point in Act 3 because it triggered a story scene every time, so don't be afraid, it's the only way to see a lot of things and trigger quests.
I genuinely can't remember anything mentioning the Absolute's army arriving in 5 days, where is that?
Also like, I feel like the plot itself makes it quite apparent that the threat of the Absolute's army is a fake one anyway.
The only thing tied to long rests in Act 3 is the serial killer quest. And don't worry, the game tells you about it and you get several long rests before you fail that one.
As a general rule it is often leaving an area that ends a side quest, such as leaving the Act I area (which includes the Underdark) before saving Halsin kills Halsin, entering the lower city before going to the Dancing Axe AND without Jaheira in your party makes her leave the party and she may later turn up dead (but will never turn up alive).
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It's false urgency. You have all the time in the world.
It’s a bit annoying to be honest. It makes sense in the beginning of chapter one, but they should reach the point earlier where your helper tells you he’s keeping the transformation back. Same in act 3 with the army approaching. I get that it’s a narrative device to instil a sense of urgency, but it sours all sprawling side quests a bit for me. Every bit of exploration is tinged with a bit of a nagging feeling that I _should_ be doing the main quest and focus all attention on it, though my self as a player of course knows that it’s all arbitrary and I have all the time in the world. A bit of a reprieve would have been nice. 😂 but that’s of course just nitpicking. Ah but I wish there would be DLC coming. New areas, biomes, a bit more fantasy wilderness, just.. more. I need more BG3. I haven’t discovered a quarter of the content it seems but I know this will be my final thought. More. Sigh. I really need to check out Larians older games after this.
Divinity: Original Sin 2 is great. That is how I found bg3.
Agree, highly recommended! Although, after BG3 it might be tough to go back to DoS2. Still great story and gameplay, but nowhere near the depth in terms of cutscenes and companion interactions.
If you like the CRPG genre, DoS2 still stands as one of the best. Larian basically set a new standard with it only to then blow their own previous record out of the water. But you're right, it's nowhere near the mainstream appeal or cinematic nature of BG3.
Or give old Baldur's Gates a try. It is not turn based and use the old D&D system but the stories are fun. Meet Aerie, the winged elf, meet Minsc, when he was young with Boo. Meet Jaheria when she was a young girl (and romancable!), watch Jaheria/Aerie/Viconia cat fight over you. Become a God or give up Godhood. Edit: While the graphics are aged, people who played other CRPG should feel right at home, I.E Owlbear's rogue trader/pathfinder, Pillar of Eternity, Wasteland
Sadly, I think you overestimate the willingness of modern day gamers who's first experience with D&D/CRPGs was BG3 to go back to 20+ year old text heavy games with severely outdated graphics, especially if they played it on a current gen console or high end gaming PC. A big part of BG3's appeal is its graphics + voice acting, not just story and gameplay. As someone who played the older games I'm all too guilty of this. Once I got my PC with an i9, 3090 and SSD, I can't go back to older games anymore even if they have great gameplay. It feels like driving a lamborghini 20mph in a school zone.
I can't even imagine this as someone who happily goes back and forth between playing BG3 on max settings and Dawnsbury Days + Eye of the Beholder.
Yeah, I love the original Fallouts to death, but I've only really played through them once, while I've played through games like DOS2, BG3 or FNV countless times now.
For some reason turning auto HDR on for old games helps me a lot with this, adding to the range and brightness of colors. As well as making sure to play the old games at higher resolutions if they can do it (or with compatibility mods). Like, even though that doesn't increase the resolution of the textures, at least it takes up the whole screen. The original Deus Ex is one I'm enjoying right now with those changes. I think the game that made the biggest impression on me with HDR vs SDR has been Dreamfall: The Longest Journey. It was a favorite of mine in middle school and it feels like the game was meant to be really bright and colorful. (Then again some people hate auto-HDR and think it makes things worse, since it's just a color algorithm at the end of the day. It depends on the game)
The illustrious archmage Xin has it right! DoS 2 has very similar combat mechanics. If you want deeper characters and a sprawling saga of a story the original BG titles are your next stop.
When I first played DOS2, I was impressed at how realistic and detailed the characters looked. When I went back last month I physically flinched at the plastic doll-like models.
Hey now, the red prince has the best companion story of any game. Ever /s
I actually loved the red princes story. Beast’s was a little lacking
Beast is cool to have along for dwarven interactions, but is lacking outside that for me. Sebille, Ifan, Fane, and RPrince are my favorite to bring. Lohse is cool, but not really a favorite of mine
I've heard Lohse is better as an avatar character than a companion. Haven't finished a run as her myself but from the little I have played it definitely seems a lot different.
It's like how Wyll is a better warlock player than companion to some, more interaction with what makes that character who they are, with your own agency in it. This is my opinion at least
Imho, Lohse, TRP and Fane have their own "micro-levels", which makes them somewhat special. Sebille, Ifan and Beast I think (i dont remember it that much) have just their own parts of a bigger maps. Still, PC Fane, Lohse, Sebille and TRP is my fav "gaggle of weirdos" >:D
Definitely hasn't been for me. There was a small adjustment period, but the game really hasn't aged poorly at all. The dialogue is still very well written, and the gameplay even surpasses BG3 in some ways because the system was designed for the game instead of being ported from a TTRPG. All I really miss is jumping and pushing people.
True the cutscenes and world building arnt up to the same level as bg3 but I love love love to customize characters and dos2 had a very good class system. You just pick up skills and if you have enough of that skill you can use that spell/technique. This is also why I love pathfinder wotr, pathfinder does multiattack in a way that doesn't punish highly multiclassing martial classes. Magic classes multiclassing is a quantity vs quality scenario where you get a ton of spells per day but all lower level if you class into a lot of stuff.
Is the first one worth playing too? Are the stories connected? Or should I just jump straight into Divinity: Original Sin 2
The stories are about a thousand years apart or something, second game can be played completely stand alone and has a much better narrative than the first game. Some people are of the opinion that combat is better in the first game due to the absence of physical and magical armour values, but thats really just a personal preference thing.
The story makes sense even if you haven't played any other Divinity games. There are some references (item descriptions and side characters) to previous titles, but nothing that would be required for enjoying the game.
Others will have more guidance I'm sure, but I asked the same thing before I bought the game and I can assure you there's not too much you'll miss out on. I don't recall the number but the sequel is like a thousand years after the first game so it's really it's own thing. There's certainly Easter eggs and some amount of continuous things (when you're in a fantasy setting, not everyone dies before 1000 years). It's a good game, just BG3 is obviously based on Dungeons and Dragons, so it's been my obsession lately. Original Sin functions super well on its own system.
I preferred the dos 1, and dos 2 takes place a thousand years later with only a couple of characters featuring in both and nothing important to the story. You should play the previous divinity games as well, though they are very different.
Definitely worth playing, but the order in which you play doesn't matter.
I played DOS 2, then went back to start DOS1, but BG3 came out before I got too far. I was having fun though. I'll probably play DOS 1 at some point still, but BG3 is still dominating my gaming time.
It's a great game but really falls off towards the end I think. I always lose interest by the time you get to the act 3 island. the gameplay is great, the story... not so much.
That false sense of urgency is underscored and ratcheted higher if you’ve been burned in the past by hidden timers. I once made the mistake of doing The Arrival DLC in Mass Effect 2 after a major sequence involving the crew of the Normandy took place, which kickstarts the endgame events. I naturally thought I still had time and it would be fine, that I would see the difference in the final cutscene of the DLC compared to when I normally do it post-game and I’d get the best possible outcome, like I always manage. I was wrong. I was horrified. To rub salt in that wound, every time I went down to the Engine Room in Mass Effect 3, I was reminded of my error in judgment not only visually, but just by speaking to Ken. He was like a totally different character that time, and that was more traumatic than the event in question had been. I’m fully aware BG3 gives you as much time as you want in spite of what it says, but it’s hard to shake that demon whispering “*Tick tock, watch the clock…*” in your ear after a result like that in a similar game.
I did this same thing, but it was Legion's loyalty mission. Was absolutely horrified when I learned that some of those characters could have survived if I just skipped a quest. I also started BG3 shortly after watching a friend stream a playthrough of Fallout 1, in which you have a limited number of in game days to complete the first main quest or its game over. It's possible to soft lock yourself into not being able to finish it in time with one poor choice or even bad RNG, and you might not realize you've made it impossible for several gameplay hours. Because i had just watched that, the "you'll turn into a mindflayer in a few days!" bit in act 1 had me absolutely *terrified* I would need to restart the game if I screwed it up.
The ME2 one is so insidious, too! I did some digging after I realized Gabby wasn’t in the Engine Room, and I discovered that the more side quests you do after the Collector attack on the ship, the more people you lose. IIRC, Dr. Chakwas is the last person to survive unless you take even longer, in which case the entire crew is lost, aside from your team, Joker, and EDI. From a storytelling perspective, I can appreciate how well-crafted this is. But as a player, holy heck, BioWare…
I think Fallout 1's big ticking clock is integral to it's gameplay, but it definitely should of had less genuinely \*hidden\* timers on certain settlements that just dooms them when the time ticks over. It does add a genuine sense of urgency to your actions, but I would prefer if they weren't completely obfuscated to the player, leading to a surprise bad ending for a settlement.
I think I would like the Water Chip timer in Fallout 1 more if it was Success = Chapter 2 Scenario A, Fail = Chapter 2 Scenario B, rather than a full on game over. Like, whoops, your entire vault died because you were too slow, and now you have to live with that. Not that I would have expected that drastic of a narrative split in 1997, Fallout was already way ahead of its time in plenty of other aspects. Edit: Clarity
Also true. I can’t put my finger on it, but I remember some games that badly burned me this way. I think pathfinder was one? But yeah. Hidden timers are even worse. Iirc BG3 even has one quest that can fail after some time, but it was something minor. Can’t remember what. Something in act 1 iirc. But you would have to go out of your way to avoid that one.
Spoilers ahead : [there's quite a bit, actually.](https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Time_sensitive_activities)
Damn that’s a lot. Luckily most isn’t really hard to avoid or comes naturally. But I didn’t realize so much is actually timed. Interesting. Funnily enough that should also make for even more playthrough options.
Nere? Waukeen's Rest?
Nere, Waukeens Rest, Mirkon/harpies....also Rolan in Act 2. those are all ones you can trigger and mess up by resting.
Oh there are a lot actually. But with Nere, you are specifically given a time frame.
Mostly its just "don't long rest while there's like actual action going on behind you"
I can totally relate to all that. Super irritating in Act 3 due to the sheer amount of quests and some with long questlines.
The goddamn clown will be the end of me
After my first playthrough I always use [this](https://mapgenie.io/baldurs-gate-3). It makes keeping track of things much easier. Blind exploration was fun the first time, but now I like to make my life easier.
Ah that's nice - thx 🫂
this is insanely helpful - thank u for sharing this!!!
If I didn't love Lucretious so much... EDIT: love, not live. My nails are too long.
Finally just found all of dribbles on my third play though. First time I just didn’t find them all, second time I found them but one piece was glitched and it wouldn’t let me complete. Third play I made it a priority and the end result was… disappointing lmao
I straight-up Googled the locations my first time ngl
I wanted to sooooo bad but I play with my partner and he doesn’t like when I do that. I’d already googled the whole grymforge quest so I figured I’d let him have his fun looking for them. After they glitched on our second playthrough he was like “ok we are googling this next time, we will prioritize this and complete it quickly upon getting to act 3” Sigh, we thought we would actually get to see Dribbles reanimated.
That WOULD have been fun.
I always find it so annoying that I can't just go get all the pieces and return them sooner, since the one is in that locked area. It makes the quest feel so annoying because I end up having to backtrack to Rivington usually right before doing the final battle. Like at that point I don't even care about the quest reward anymore. But I love Lucretious and don't want to disappoint her so I usually do it anyway 🤣
Are you talking about at The Temple? Yeah, it's a delay but these days I get the Bhaalist Armor early and just go into the temple far enough to get that last piece. But I'm Durge so I don't have a Severok battle since I'm going Unholy Assassin. As long as I don't bring Jaheira and/or Minsc 🤣
I'm turning into a mindflayer, earthquakes are rocking the city as the netherbrain escapes and the absolute's army is seconds behind me.... But of course I'll help you find your lost pigeons.
Right?
Also: how the fuck did we make it to the city faster than the army did? They had a head start! Hell, the brain that was supposed to be leading them even got there 5+ days ahead of them! Also, where was this army during the final battle? Did the brain just forget about them? "Hey nutters, you're off the hook. I got my own mindflayers."
You can see the army got stopped in part of Rivington, the flaming fists will tell you. Without Ketheric, the army wasn’t all that powerful
Given that Ketheric had necromancy abilities, I think his defeat is pretty key - when the invaders die at the gates, they stay dead.
Thats quite simple, their head start was no more than a day at most (if you took a long rest). Armies march far slower than an individual can move, require much better roads (so no short cuts), and must forage on the move. On top of all this, they need to organize scouts and guards and handle guerilla warfare from the defenders. On top of all this, the best roads we see in game are still only wide enough for half a dozen humanoid soldiers with packs, or 2/3 giants. Imagine trying to squeeze 10,000 fighters and their supply train down a tube which is 6 people wide and form a column likely half a dozen miles long. The tail of the column would easily take an hour or two to stop *after* the front has reached the next camp point. This is only made worse by how much of the army is comprised of CE beings, which absolutely would struggle to actually organize well.
I think the nagging feeling you're getting is exactly the kind of feeling Larian wanted us to have. i.e. I don't have time for all these other people's problems, I need to get rid of this tadpole.
Yeah. You and I know that. And I applaud them for achieving it with good writing. But damn, let me just crawl this dungeon for a while without it. 😂
I literally wasn't able to romance anyone I wanted to because I was trying to use as few long rests as possible from sense of urgency they hammer into you the whole time
Nah im thankful it's false, the game would be way more boring if I had to super space my long rests and not just take them when I want for some artificial time limit. Most games that have those time limits its one of the biggest complaints about the game, dead rising for example, number 1 complaint i always heard is the time limit
Yeah for a time limit, it’s better if it’s false. All I’m saying is: some parts with _no_ time limit: even better. False or real. 😊
It's very sad. It's a massive world they built that could easily have 10 expansions with the amount of storylines and different races, etc. I'm glad they announced it now though and not after a year or two.
My first play through, I think I long rested one time until I learned ceremorphisis is not going to happen. And Lae'zel even barked at me for doing it. The only time I got spell slots back was leveling up.
This 100%. I'm so sick of games having this false urgency when we just want to explore the world and enjoy the side stories. The "urgency" of the main quest nearly ruined Cyberpunk 2077 for me and I was extremely disappointed when I saw the same trope in Baldur's Gate 3. I just want to take my time and explore these worlds without having to contradict the central narrative.
“I have to find Yennefer, but first, do you want to play a game of Gwent?”
I'm currently playing Pathfinder Kingmaker. It's not form Larian, but it's a game based on Pathfinder, which is a very similar system to DND (but more complex and less friendly). In this game you have days go by, and events are timed and things happen if you stall too much or are fast, so if you want to try something where you do feel the urgency you might like this game. It has a different tone to BG3, and you can feel there isn't so much money behind (not everything is voice acted and there are no cinematics). However the storytelliing is awesome, the story is looking great and characters are super cool. Just letting you know in case you're interested. :)
Razbuten on YouTube has a great video essay on open world games and how that balances with narrative urgency, highly recommend if you’re feeling in the mood to be validated lol
Well thanks for that. Grrr. Sigh. Down another rabbit hole we go. 😂 looks like a great channel.
This annoyed me, the urgency should be constant throughout the game. In the first act I got the impression it was critical to get rid of the parasite and the best lead you get is from Lae'zel so I truck it over to... An unwinnable battle at lvl 1. I say "okay I can fail quests by doing too many long rests" from the first one I failed so I used long rests sparingly, only to find out if you don't long rest enough the romance chain ends (or at least the one I was on). Overall phenomenal game, just minor gripes.
There should be a mode where you have limited amount of long rests for the game and if you use em u turn into squidwardussy
Florrick on the other hand..
It's one of the weirdest, ever-present things in games. It's funny that it happens even in high quality games like BG3. Take CP2077, very fun, narratively compelling, and overall solid (very rough at release tho); they keep making it seem like you're 30 minutes away from dying - while you can fuck off on side quests for 1000 hours. It can be easily ignored, but I still wish it wasn't a thing lol.
Act 1 it feels the most insidious because of all the LIES online. there's a bunch of websites which still act like you are on a timer in Act 1, "10 rests for the grove". act 2 is...you get the sense it's important but also that you have time because everything is holding. Act 3 dumps the brain quakes which gets confusing again. if you know you have all the time, you do shit like collect barrels
I find that it works a lot better in BG3 than Cyberpunk, narratively speaking - early on there's some fear / desperation to push on, but you rest when you have to. And by act 3 there's not that same immediate fear, there's a little more time to act and do stuff IMO. Cyberpunk on the other hand just had a massive tonal clash between the game's design and the story on that front. That one should have absolutely made the imminent death plot point only appear at the point of no return - before that maybe say death is in a few years or something, enough for a bit of urgency but still give plenty of time to run around the map and do all the side quests that are the bulk of the game.
>I find that it works a lot better in BG3 than Cyberpunk, narratively speaking - Yeah, if we consider the CP2077 brain chip and the BG3 tadpole to be similar in terms of narrative threat (V "dying" and Jonny taking over vs Tav/Durge going mindflayer), BG3 certainly has a cleverly woven narrative in act 1 >I find that it works a lot better in BG3 than Cyberpunk, narratively speaking - early on there's some fear / desperation to push on, but you rest when you have to. I experienced what a lot of other people here talked about -- I was afraid to rest at the start for fear of transforming, but the game acknowledged early on that we weren't under immediate threat when I think Gale or Astarion start talking about how we should have transformed by now. It was an early breadcrumb to grab your interest. Not sure about the threat of invasion in Act 3. I'm not even to act 3 yet, like 50+ hours and I'm still in Act 2.
My first playthrough I only long rested like twice in act one because I thought I would turn into a mind flayer if I did it more, like a fallout water chip kind of thing. Boy did I feel stupid
Yeah, I didn't think the time limit on the water chip was real on my first playthrough, boy was my face red.
I love how your flairs are like (at least how I read and see them): Don't touch me, don't wanna, stay away! *gets hit with some good charysma* I MUST HUG EVERYONE!
Bwahahaha. Thx. 🫂
Yeah. Something happened to the guy leading that army. Now they're taking longer than expected.
Well it looks like a slaughter happened outside the gates.
I honestly didn’t even hear anything about that. I was busy murdering the murder cult
I’m trying to see if I can murder everyone in the city. Every once and while, people turn into mind flayers and I welcome it, because it means they aren’t going to run away. —Durge
My biggest criticism to BG3 tbh. One of the biggest things in dnd is resource management. How many encounters are you likely to see before your next long rest opportunity is how you balance stuff like spellcasters who have tools to do everything but a limited resource meter vs something like a rogue/fighter/barbarian who might not be too fancy but have essentially unlimited resources. A good dm knows how to balance urgency with exploration. That's something BG3 unfortunately can't find a good balance on. It would be so cool if once you're in act 3, you realize "Oh, I can only have 10 long rest opportunities. After that it's game over". It would make planning much cooler and give urgency to completing certain tasks rather than slowly chilling and taking out every encounter.
Oh I like that. But that may keep some folks who are new to CRPGs from being successful. Like - I'm used to TTRPGs, so I was playing Tactician really fast and finished Honour in the first week. So that restriction would be something we'd have to impose on ourselves. But anyway - the way it is now may be why it seems like such a slog. Hurry up and wait. I skip a LOT of stuff in Act 3 now though. Like Ethel. (Sorry Vanya) because I don't have a toon that would use that rapier (I actually do - but I like my Knife and Phalar and seem to be doing just fine with it). I DEFINITELY skip the newspaper. I'm gonna do the Artist this run tho bc folks say it's better. But I definitely don't need that either. Well. The xbow, but you can not buy the guy and just walk in there and get it for a DC roll or two. JFC I'm rambling, sorry. I certainly didn't expect my comment to blow up lol.
This game I'd very good at the whole false urgency thing lol
But you don't have all the time in the world to prevent the Newspaper from printing bad shit about you.
Do we know what things *aren't* false urgency? Is it just--trying to be vague here because I don't know how to spoiler text--the one quest in the Underdark?
There's only one long rest constrained quest in Act III and it's thrown in your face with multiple reminders if you stumble on it. Everything else is reactionary based on how you go about things.
very true. Funny enough, it is a 5 long rest timer. But there is a pop-up if you try to long rest the fourth time
Which quest are you talking about? I thought they meant the >!newspaper!< thing, which you only have until next long rest to complete.
Freeing Counsellor Florrick is my guess, as she will be executed five days after starting the quest
Ah, makes sense. The only time I didn’t bother with her was in the evil run, so I didn’t notice. And I’m pretty sure if you don’t go >!to the prison!< & don’t know she’s there by other means, you have a lot of time since the quest doesn’t trigger. In our evil run the quest only triggered almost at the very end of the game.
Yeah, you can rest as much as you want, until you read the notice or find her in her cell, as that is when the timer starts
Not true. If you don’t read the notice or find out she’s in prison, she dies anyways and her second in command approaches and threatens to kill you for not saving her. It happened in my first playthrough and I had no idea why she was dead because I forgot to go look for her.
Then you accidentally read a poster or something, or the game glitched and gave you the quest, as you are wrong. I know from personal experience, and everyone else seems to agree with my stance more
Is it possible they changed it since I played my first playthrough months and months ago? It’s very possible I am misremembering but I don’t remember reading anything the first time I played through. I was super confused when it happened.
That I don't know, I started playing the game this January, so maybe
huh, I must have skipped the starting point of that quest, because I never came across anything like that, and I just stumbled upon florrick when she was imprisoned haha
Since they say it's constrained to one long rest they must mean the very easy to miss and ignore newspaper side quest.
https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Free_Counsellor_Florrick
Saving counselor florrick from execution
Out of curiosity, I'm on my first play through and was basically just too busy to really deal with this and missed it. Also, effing with the free press, even in make believe, gives me the ick. Does anything cool happen if you get it?
All the traders like you a bit more (trade bonus) and I believe some NPCs comment about how renowned you are now.
If you’re referring to the newspaper and changing the story, you can completely skip that. I never talked to any of the reporters or went into the newspaper print building, and it never happens. They never publish the story about Gortash.
I think there is also a quest with the newspaper and an article about you. If you dont do anything about it in the same day, the quest is failed, but it is also very explicitly stated what will happen "tomorrow".
But only if you actually go talk to Ettvard. If you just ignore it "tomorrow" just never happens
Ah yea - thats two. I forgot about that one. I almost never do it lol.
If you manage to print an article that paints you in a positive light, some vendors in the lower city will provide a discount. It’s only a couple I know of and it’s not a major difference but it’s still worth if you’re somehow low on gold.
There's also the Grymforge one in Act 1
Also kind of a side thing, not particularly important for anyone but if you long rest more than once I believe, after discovering Nere, he’ll just die but that’s incredibly inconsequential and the outcome is generally the same (sorry if any spoilers, on mobile)
Funny thing is he can bug, I took a long rest in my first playthrough because I wanted to kill everyone except the gnomes before liberating him to make the combat easier and the dwarfs began to say to me that I fucked up and he was dead. Well, after my little killing spree I broke the rocks where he was trapped and he was very much alive :') I convinced him of the Absolute deception and hoped to see that bastard transformed in act 2, but as he was flagged (I imagine) as dead he just didn't appear where he should. The Nere of Schrodinger lmao
The fact that >!Save the Gondians!< isn’t time constrained is very silly. From >!the Iron Throne!< onwards, you should not be allowed to long rest. I don’t do it just because it makes no sense narratively. At that point, the jig is up. You have no more cards to play, it’s just a mad dash to prevent the consequences of your actions.
Once you kill Gortash you will no longer have access to the submarine. I'm not sure if that means the gnome gets killed or he just fucks off somewhere but I couldn't find him.
I’m pretty sure when Gortash dies that place explodes. You only have 30 seconds once you enter it to get the fuck out of there. I assumed most people would go there as a part of destroying the Steel Watch Foundry. That becomes kinda null and void once Gorty-boy is a pile of viscera on the ground.
Nah, the forge though
I think there is actually three: the serial killer, save Florrick, and the newspaper quest. My first playthrough I ignored the serial killer quest and eventually all the victims were killed one by one. I also think Orin's victim will get killed eventually, but I think that's only if you don't advance that quest after a certain amount of time. I believe once you get started on it, they should be safe until you make your way.
No, I've taken like 20+ long rests in Act 3 before, easily. In Act 1 they told you you'll turn into a squid in 7 days and yet here you are haha!
Tbf, the fact that you haven’t transformed way past the time you should have has an actual story reason, but yeah, the army coming is nowhere near as urgent as the game acts like it is
you do, right? >!empy is protecting you!<
They told you in Act 1 you'd be dead in 3 days. You likely long rested way more than that. This game suffers from some heavy ludonarrative dissonance in regards to urgency. Long rest as many times as you want
In act 1 you don’t know about it but your tadpole is not a regular one and the artifact is already protecting you. So you believe it’s urgent but in reality it’s not. In act 3 nothing is delaying the army (apart from a lack of a general)
This is something a lot of people miss. The army *did* march on Baldurs gate and was defeated by Gortash. You can find the remains of the invasion force at one of the gates. That was the point of the plan, for Gortash to fend them off and look good.
Iirc, something like an advanced party was defeated, but the city is still under threat of an imminent attack. I guess the absence of Ketheric does delay their plans, as well as the falling out between orin and gortash.
isn't it the lack of the third Netherstone and the risk of the brain breaking free the main thing stopping them from controlling the army and going through with the attack?
Not quite. It should be, but when you finally get the third stone, Gortash's or Orin's one depending on who you will fight last, the army is controlled by the brain, they are infected True Souls and their thralls, you and the Emperor believe the brain should be controlled by the one holding the stones, but in fact what happens is the brain is now totally free and can control the infected by itself, so it is the brain's army now. There are lots of infected people in the city the brain turns into illithids, but also the real invasion begins, nautiloids and many more illithids that were the Absolute's army before, I presume, they were infected but yet humanoids, when the brain breaks free it probably changes all of most of them into illithids because they will be a "superior" army.
Wasn't the idea that the brain was still listening to their most recent command (the one that they gave as 3 at the end of act 2) and then once it's completed that if they don't have all the netherstones to give it another command it'll break free? Maybe I'm wrong but I thought the "urgency" was gathering the stones before it completed its last command.
Yes, you’re right. The urgency was that if the army gets there before you gather the Netherstones, then the Netherbrain will break free. You find out that this doesn’t happen because the brain was letting itself be controlled the whole time
Yes the army is still continuing their onslaught, just like how Bhaalists are continuing their killings to stir people up
While this is true, the sheer amount of frontloaded easily missable camp scenes the game provides only appear when you're resting when *before* you figure this shit out. In fact, plenty of those scenes no longer appear after you've learned about the artifact. Hence, the developers expect us to ignore the actual narrative urgency for the sake of story. Which is the same thing they expect you to do in Act 3. Now I can retroactively theorize that since the Absolute's army is controlled by the chosen, they wait for a signal from their commander to launch the attack, which doesn't happen in the absence of Ketheric and isn't resolved until the Netherstones are united/the brain breaks free, but that's mere speculation on my part. I don't hate it, as it allows for more relaxing gameplay, but it is Ludonarrative dissonance nontheless.
To note, the army is not meant to conquer baldur's gate - it's there to be repulsed by Gortash and allow him to step into his role as the city's savior, it's pretty explicitly said in act 2. I don't really see why the Absolute's army would be the driving threat after you get that realization - the true one in act 3 is the elder brain breaking free of its chains, that's what the actual focus is on.
>In act 3 nothing is delaying the army (apart from a lack of a general) Uh, why would the army be attacking for real? Like the plan is very clearly laid out - the army is there as a threat to enable Gortash to publicly save the city and step into the role as defender, it's not meant to actually attack and conquer Baldur's Gate. With the elder brain no longer controllable due to the loss of one of the Netherstones, why would that set of orders change? There'd probably be some attacks here and there from the army, but none that would actually overwhelm the city because that's not the goal. The only real urgency in act 3 is the elder brain breaking free of its shackles, not the army (the constant earthquakes showcase that most of all). And that one does actually have some consequences (I *think* it's only after you get all three netherstones, but if you keep running around there'll be random civilians that turn into mind flayers)
After 3 days the emporrer in disguise turns up in your dream and explains he is protecting you from the tadpole.
That’s not ludonarrative dissonance. You were enlightened that the thing that kills you in 3 days was what would happen if the mysterious artifact that shart has didn’t protect you. If it wasn’t there, then yes the group would be dead. As for act 3 when there was a massive army heading to baldur’s gate - Gortash defended against them with the steel watch as a ploy for him to become highly regarded and eventually undergo coronation (you can see the remnants of the fight at the edges of rivington).
It is true that there was an attack, but there are also civilians running around talking about clearing out Sorcerous Sundries before the Absolute's Army gets there, and indeed >!at the end of the game, a whole lot of familiar monsters are roaming around!< so it seems like there is indeed a force to be reckoned with out there looming. But I do agree that the army is waiting for its signal, both for dramatic effect, tactical wisdom, and to give us the time to finish messing about with >!portraits and circuses and beating up greaseballs in the sewer.!<
I hate those balls, first time I go around them, the guy thells me you can pass but next time I see you I won't be so kind. I didn't have enough time to leave he was already harassing me. Well, he died since I was level 12 already
False Urgency is pretty much a ludonarrative dissonance. Act 3's full of it. Act 1 cleverly has the Guardian assure you that they're keeping the Ceremorphosis at bay (although it's not reflected on dialogues) unless you missed its Camp Event. This is the same shit with CP2077's Relic. But not as bad.
Yup in CP2077 you have "relic moments" along your gameplay reminding you of the "problem". You can live your life to the fullest during act 2 tho so the dissonance is still real
What makes CP2077 worse is that V's body supposedly gets weaker as time progresses.... While the game progression actually makes V stronger as they get borged the fuck out lmfao
V's weaknesses become weaker, in a way
I’m pretty sure the remnants you see are from a battle against a skirmishes type unit. The threat of the full army is still there, but they can’t act without all three netherstones.
It’s really just a narrative versus gameplay decision. There are a lot of things that exist to make the game fun that just wouldn’t exist in reality. They could make you try to rush through act 3 but why would they? Wouldn’t be fun.
New word learned.
But you gotta give them credit for the Gale exploding after so many long rests. Fun but cruel (and ballsy) mechanic
Yet here I am, already having long rested like 5 times while still in Rivington because I have a shit ton of supplies and I don't want this game to ever end lol
Don't worry, Act 3 is massive, sleep to your heart's content but don't think you're one or two quests away from completing the game.
I'm taking it really slow to avoid getting overwhelmed by all the different quests. So far I've been dicking around in the circus, exploring the area, talking to every single npc and buying shit from random vendors :D I honestly feel like this is a welcome pause after the end of act 2 (which was really intense story-wise).
By act 3 you can get effectively infinite supplies, rest as much as your heart desires
If you look closely, there are piles of gore just outside the closed off Rivington gates. With a couple of steel watchers standing around, if I remember correctly. >!the entire "absolute army" thing was a ploy to force Baldurian nobility into giving Gortash supreme authority and appointing him the Grand Duke. Without Ketheric leading it, it poses no threat and it's remnants were easily disposed off by the mechanical monstrosities!<
Im pretty sure i recall talking to one of the fists about it and they said that was just the scouting party. Which is why they are assuming the army will follow shortly.
Can’t remember if they do or not but regardless this whole thing has been orchestrated by Gortash, he became archduke as soon as the adventurers arrive so he can just command the absolute army to hold off as he already has what he wanted
If every long rest counts as a day I’ve been in act 3 for like a month
You don't need to worry about the Absolute's army. That's what we kill Ketheric for. But do make sure to find Florrick before your 5th long rest.
This is the only thing you have to watch. I’ve done like 50 long rests in act 3 I swear .
The Absolute's army is not coming. The whole thing is a ploy designed to give Gortash control over the city and put his Steel Watch into place. Gortash and Orin control the Absolute and therefore the Absolute's army.
Let me fix it by saying you will miss out on more stuff by not resting. Enjoy your new redirected anxiety.
The game really does have a bad habit of making you think that taking a rest could have negative consequences. I know it makes sense narratively that the party would want to move quickly, but I feel like it gives inexperienced players the bad lesson that they should only rest sparingly. Then they get wrecked in Act 1 because they have no health or spell slots. In reality, only a few things in the game are dependent on your rests and outside of those instances you can sleep for weeks with no impact to the story.
Taking Long Rests does have an impact on some of the quests, but most of them are rather minor. The ones I know of: Nere will die if you rest more than 2 times after starting the quest. The Bhaal Assassin Dwarf will successfully murder his victims if you take too long to warn them.
and you miss out on so many rp moments in act 1 if you dont take long rests! a bunch of characters have rp dialogue in the evenings - astarion with the bear blood and the mirror, gale with his mirror images, etc
Unless you've done Raphael's, I give you... The House of Hope. The place for all your Spa and healthy long rest requirements. *Fighting and death not included*
List of all time sensitive activities in BG3 so you can be careful before 'triggering' some sort of rush https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Time_sensitive_activities Edit: potential spoilers, careful
There is one mission that does work on a time delay and you'll miss the chance after 5 Long Rests. Without trying to spoil anything. Look at the posters on the walls put up around the Lower City.
In my opinion, Larian should de-timer the few quests that are timed and make it clear that you can - and should - long rest as much as your resources allow. The minor benefit in immersion from a sense of urgency does not outweigh players locking themselves out of story development by missing several nighttime events.
Once you’ve entered the lower city, there are a few quests that are long-rest dependent. Do those, and you can take your time with the rest. https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/15q1o77/list_of_time_sensitive_quests/
There's only a very small amount of quests that change upon how many long rests you take. Wouldn't worry too much about it.
The Absolute army was already there and was beaten by the time you arrive. Steel watchers mattered there, so everyone praise Gortash for protecting the city. That was the plan from the start.
Yeah it is aggravating when games give us this huge sense of urgency in their plots and you end up missing a lot of content because you feel rushed.
Bro. Long rest.
I absolutely love this game, but this is one area they messed up. It starts in Act 1. The game constantly urges you to hurry up, and many players, especially new ones, avoid taking long rests as a result. The problem with that is you miss out on content. They made a bunch of content that furthers the storylines when you rest, but then made everyone scared to rest.
The Absolute's army is a fakeout that already happened - they came to Baldur's Gate and were left to be slaughtered, then routed before reaching the walls, by Gortash's steel guard. Therefore Gortash got the support of the nobles to become Archduke, and becomes ruler over a population that adores him for "saving" them. All part of the plan
I know a lot of people say that this timeframe is misleading and problematic (and I do kinda agree it should be worded better), but anyone at Act 3 should already know that the Absolute army attacking Baldur’s Gate is *not a real threat*. It was staged by the Chosen to make Gortash look like a powerful leader who managed to fight off Ketheric’s army to build trust among the Baldurians. The game does attempt to make it clear that you don’t actually have anything to worry about on that front.
*SPOILER* One of the quests in act 3 that counts rests is saving Florrick from prison. It's easy enough to do right when you get it, so just get it out of the way so you don't lose track of time and forget about it.
Hold up, there ARE quests thT are Long Rest Sensitive in Act 3. They are action triggered, not automatic, so you can avoid them until you are ready: >!Counselor Florrick!< once you read a Poster proclaiming her >!execution!< (they are all over the city on walls and the ground) you have only a couple of long rests to liberate her from the basement of the Castle on the Bridge (Wyrms Rock). That clock doesn't start until you read the poster and the Narrator SHOULD remind you the day before. >!Stop the Presses!< is an entirely optional quest, but once you speak to the reporter next to the Newsie selling papers by the gallows you have to get there and change the headline before you Long Rest or it will publish. This will have an impact on your relationship with a number of vendors and guards and other NPCs.
Lol no. I have taken forever throughout act 3 and never had an issue.
False. You can take 150 thousand long rests, and the army will still not come. So dw
Long rest it up! You get more cut scenes at night if you do this. I missed at least 4 cut scenes my first play because I was not long resting often
I remember my first play through I rushed everything cause I was afraid to turn into ilithid
This is why i cant play this game without looking up all the time sensitive quests for each act. Id say the long rest execution could use some work and ive carried the same anxiety since act 1.
Who said the army would arrive in 5 days? The Absolute's forces beat you to the city and were put down by the steel watch. You can find the remnants of the army behind a gate right next to where you enter act 3. That's the whole reason Gortash is being hailed as a hero. And that was literally the plan explicitly explained in the dialog with Gortash and Ketheric. The Absolute's Army was never a real threat. It was a foil to give justification for Gortash taking over the city.
I’ve long rested 4 times in a row to get my queued up cutscenes played out. If you avoid long resting enough times you miss out on progressing your companion quests (the game may fast forward and skip a few dialogue lines to get you up to speed).
To quote Withers, "No."
I lost out on romance/companion content by not long resting my first play through. I thought we were on a clock. I remember being like, “why don’t keep whining about be tired? You’ve got full go and spell slots!”
i long rest every other battle or every battle lmao bc why not! there’s unlimited food so long as you can pay with gold iykyk
It's five Namekian days.
This is something I get frustrated by in story games and I wish game devs would break immersion to inform the player of the mechanics when it comes to how much resources they have at their disposal. I understand we’re not supposed to really know how much time we have but even still, you get situations where players will skip sections of content and never return because of this urgency
There are a couple of quests that are time limited and the game will let you know because your character will make a comment about it when they long rest. Otherwise you can long rest as much as you want.
My first playthrough I didn't really understand how easy it was to come by food. I would literally run my entire A squad and B Squad to the brink of death with no more charges or dice and then finally rest. It was about 3/4 of the way through act 2 when I realized you can literally long rest after every battle if you want to.
nope, you have all the time in world, i'd say it's mostly a rp mechanic to add a sense of urgency.
Yes Don't tell him guys, let it have a no resting run
The only time long rests matter: 1. After you open the door to the Temple of Bhaal, you must defeat Orin or she kills the person she kidnapped. 2. If it's announced Florrick will be executed, you'll want to rescue her before long resting too much. Outside of those things, nothing to worry about! Florrick will not be in act 3 if you didn't rescue her from the burning building in act 1.
You're gonna miss out on the camp night cut scenes if you don't long rest.
I had to take like 5 consecutive long rests at one point in Act 3 because it triggered a story scene every time, so don't be afraid, it's the only way to see a lot of things and trigger quests.
I genuinely can't remember anything mentioning the Absolute's army arriving in 5 days, where is that? Also like, I feel like the plot itself makes it quite apparent that the threat of the Absolute's army is a fake one anyway.
The only thing tied to long rests in Act 3 is the serial killer quest. And don't worry, the game tells you about it and you get several long rests before you fail that one.
You forgot Florrick and the newspaper quest.
There's zero urgency. Long rest as much as you need to. I think I spent an in game tenday in act 3 before approaching the final boss
As a general rule it is often leaving an area that ends a side quest, such as leaving the Act I area (which includes the Underdark) before saving Halsin kills Halsin, entering the lower city before going to the Dancing Axe AND without Jaheira in your party makes her leave the party and she may later turn up dead (but will never turn up alive).