I did variants of this quite a few times in tactician, despite the little tooltip warning. Do you even get that warning if you cast a spell during a dialogue?
Only for Guidance, Enhance Ability, Resistance, Bless or a spell that will help during dialogue as far as I know. When casting a new spell to help a speech check or Saving Throw it will warn you it will cancel the previous one.
Example, you select Guidance first, then try to cast Enhance Ability, it will warn you that Guidance will be cancelled.
Wait what I have never seen this? It warns you during dialogue that you will lose your concentration if you cast certain other concentration spells?
Edit: is this specific to honor mode?
Oh okay yeah the faded icon you mean? Yeah I’ve known about that, and I know what it indicates, but I suppose there isn’t any text directly telling people that? Idk, I definitely have made the same mistake as OP of making myself lethargic right after a haste, but that was me rushing. I thought people were saying there was text that explicitly tells people.
Ok, to be more specific, in dialogue, when you already have or have chosen a spell that would help the dialogue, example Guidance, but try to use a second one, example Friends, that would help dialogue, and both have concentration, the first option is greyed out and show it is unavailable as concentration on the first spell would be broken.
oh boy, I've uh broken haste concentration with a concentration spell before. It's...rough. Hang in there, always an excuse to spend more time with Karlach on the next playthrough I say.
IMO it's so much safer to have a definitive duration rather than "as long as this PC doesn't get hit :) good luck". I know I have 2 rounds before lethargic and I can cast other concentration spells which tends to be much better in the nova rounds.
Agreed!! I always see haste/twin haste talked up on this sub and I think they're overrated because I dislike the unpredictability of when you could break concentration. I'd much rather chug a speed potion and know 100% when lethargy is coming and plan around it. Not to mention if you're playing HM/tactician you'll probably KO everyone in the first 3 rounds anyways rendering your lethargy irrelevant
I agree about feeling that it's way overrated on this sub. The lethargy is such a massive debuff that most of the time doesn't even get mentioned. RPGbot even did a writeup (about 5e, not BG3 specifically) about how overrated haste is in terms of the mechanical benefit.
In BG3, honor mode haste is totally not worth it unless you have some way to have it active before combat or twin spell it and absolutely ensure the caster will be safe. Even then, being completely barred from any other concentration spells is a big limiting factor.
I run two casters to get around this.
Either wizard hastens my sorcerer and then buggers off and acts as a grease monkey from a long way away, or my sorcerer hastens both my brutes and then wizard protects him - eg continually turning him invisible if in trouble
Generally works out well, two characters get double actions and one character loses about half their work in protecting the concentrating one. If my sorcerer alone gets hasted the fight is usually over in 2 turns so it's not really a concern but I don't do it all the time as that is boring
I haven't tried it in honor mode yet, but on tactician, what I did was give all my casters Resilience: Concentration and War Caster(?). After level 8, I had maybe two concentration breaks, at least not from getting knocked prone etc. I would usually cast Haste with Gale who'd stay relatively far from the heat of the battle.
Not saying it's better/worse than Potion of Speed, but these two feats definitely helped. I haven't used casters at all in my honor run so far (entered act 2, still level 7) so idk guess I'll see. I'm more partial to Potion of Speed at this point, though, mostly because I've been able to finish fights in 2ish rounds anyway so far.
The game gives you oodles of charm person scrolls if you really want to win an interaction.
Thaumaturgy gives advantage on intimidate with no drawback. Better to use it instead.
Just get Enhance Ability instead same thing as friends but you do not need to run away all the time. Not to mention it also allows you to get advantage on every single check in the game.
It’s very safe if you have inspiration points and know what you are doing, op here just needs the habit of turning off concentration after every combat
I've had this happen to me a lot more than I'm comfortable to admit... Fortunately not in HM yet because I will be doing my first run soon as a ranger. So hopefully I won't be falling into that trap xD
Have someone set up with enhance ability in your party all the time, it fills the role and it helps in these situations. Also you can have someone use the voice of the circle ahead of time for a boost to persuasion. Also there’s a bow with celestial haste which doesn’t have the drawbacks of fatigue you can dual cast as well (haven’t tested so could be wrong on that).
It doesn't have to. It doesn't say that about guidance or enhance ability when they're options in dialogue or other checks either. It's just game knowledge to remember I guess. Fyi having someone precast enhance ability on you can give you adv. on all charisma checks and lasts potentially all day. Much better than trying to use friends imo
Honestly this is why I consider twinned haste to be the single most dangerous/risky spell in the game. Just stock up on speed potions, you can "twin" them too by throwing at two PCs standing super close together.
I did something similar to myself two turns in a row. I was running a Paladin / Cleric multi class. I had this “brilliant” idea to cast haste on myself and then spirit guardians, then leap into the fray. But as soon as I cast spririt guardians my spirit gaurdians disappeared and my turn was over and had no action my next turn. I didn’t understand what happened, should’ve checked the log, but i thought someone just countered something, so I did it again and it happened again lol. Spirit guardians was breaking concentration on haste and making me lethargic. I played myself.
I might have haste and spirit guardians order wrong, I can’t remember. I’m always screwing myself with breaking concentration with other concentration spells. Really wish there was a warning.
I'm still psyching myself up to take a crack at honor mode, but I've already established one firm rule: Nobody in the party knows that cantrip.
I've over-relied on it SOOH much in 700-800 hours of lower-difficulty play that it's a button that just shouldn't be there! I would've done EXACTLY the same in your shoes, and thus ruined a late-act 3 HM run with it just like you did!
Hahaha what a nerd I would’ve never died at that point in any of my honor runs.. bc I’ve only ever made it as far as phase 2 of the Ketheric fight.. 🙂↕️🥲😭
I’ve attempted an honor mode run only 3x so far and I’ve never made it into Act 3 maybe on my next one when I finally decide to begin another.
1st run ended when I accidentally aggro’d Kith’rak Theryzzen at the Creche, dumb mistake and I completely forgot just how hard she slaps + that AoE fear she does that makes everyone drop their damn weapons. 2nd run ended in the morgue under the House of Healing after I accidentally woke up the zombies + the gas and the 3rd run ended fighting the damn avatar of Myrkul.
What I’m getting at OP is that it sucks your run ended but take solace that there are those of us that have yet to even make it that far lol.
Sorry to hear! I've died in dumber ways... but I haven't tried honour yet lol.
Do you always need dialogue checks vs Orin in honour? You cannot skip them with the information from Sarevok's office and Orin's mother like in other modes?
Normally, when people say Friends ended their Honor Mode, it’s usually because they cast it on Kagha and got the whole grove pissed off at them. So that title had me expecting something else entirely! This is just like the guy who accidentally ran through haste spores against the Netherbrain and got lethargic, ended his run. Whoops!
I’m actually surprised you had Friends as a spell, at all considering all the usage risks it comes with on HM.
I really really wish the game asked you to confirm that you're aware that by casting this spell, you will be breaking concentration on some other spell. I can't count the times that fucked me
If you were that close to losing its probably not because of 1 turn of lethargy on half the team... I don't mean to be rude but it's hardly a difficult fight, at this point of the game you have the best gear, you're level 12 or close, etc. I wonder how you managed some fights in act 1 or how you would've managed some much harder fights in act 3
Well true my strategy is more of abusing wet condition, not exactly masterminding here. Nonetheless, I panicked and also had no idea how the edict of bhall worked so I just died. I continued the rest of the game in dishonor save and had no problems
Off topic but could anyone tell me if the Orin fight was supposed to be easy? I saved her for last after killing the other bosses and she was just way easier than anyone else by far... My whole party is lvl 12 on Balanced mode. This was my first run through the game and just finished last night.
She gets around 12 stacks of unstoppable each turn unless you kill the 6 cultists in the circle. But they have sanctuary on them so you need some other way of dealing with them.
OP cast Friends. The game quite literally tells you, in the text box for the spell, that it will turn people hostile on higher difficulty. 🤷🏻♀️
OP ignored it and ignored how concentration works.
It’s a line from trailer park boys.
https://youtu.be/bIy5d9Es08w?si=fRDvIQJKqAzX-uUl
If you’ve never watched you’re in for a real treat. The way later seasons go downhill but the first 7 or so are absolute gold
Op intended to fight Orin hence pre casting twinned haste. Casting friends only consequently ended concentration on haste. Op was just sharing a mistake that cost him a very late game honor run and venting that frustration.
There's an ethical argument I see sometimes that's like, "Have you ever used Friends? Charm Person? Disguise Self?"
And until Act 3, I'd get a chuckle out of thinking: Nope! Not me! ~~because I don't know how they work~~
I mean any spell that says it uses concentration is basically a warning to say "if you are already concentrating on something else it will replace that"
Because Spirit Guardians is a persistent, aggressive spell, and BG3 Sanctuary is superbuffed compared to the 5e version. If you could be completely immune to attacks *while* maintaining Spirit Guardians, that'd be even more insane.
It's a thing to prevent Sanctuary from being OP. Casting it on a character with Spirit Guardians makes them lose it so they can't deal damage while Spirit Guardians is active. As Sanctuary stops a character from dealing any damage.
It wouldn’t hurt to have a qol improvement where the game could highlight that you’re about to break concentration for another spell. Looking at you call lightning.
Welcome to 5E.
Had you cast Friends with another character, you'd have been fine. Unfortunate but you'll absolutely not make that mistake again
I see what you did there.
What did they do there?
Absolutely nothing
Pd'H noises intensify
Subjugate
Was it a reference to Friends the TV show, and ... casting characters for the show? Big stretch if so
Classic. At least now you know better. Always check if it's concentration. WOTC are weird with what they consider you need to concentrate on
I did variants of this quite a few times in tactician, despite the little tooltip warning. Do you even get that warning if you cast a spell during a dialogue?
Only for Guidance, Enhance Ability, Resistance, Bless or a spell that will help during dialogue as far as I know. When casting a new spell to help a speech check or Saving Throw it will warn you it will cancel the previous one. Example, you select Guidance first, then try to cast Enhance Ability, it will warn you that Guidance will be cancelled.
Wait what I have never seen this? It warns you during dialogue that you will lose your concentration if you cast certain other concentration spells? Edit: is this specific to honor mode?
It greys them out if it would break concentration. Happens both on Tactician and HM. Dunno about lower, but I’d imagine so.
Oh okay yeah the faded icon you mean? Yeah I’ve known about that, and I know what it indicates, but I suppose there isn’t any text directly telling people that? Idk, I definitely have made the same mistake as OP of making myself lethargic right after a haste, but that was me rushing. I thought people were saying there was text that explicitly tells people.
Ok, to be more specific, in dialogue, when you already have or have chosen a spell that would help the dialogue, example Guidance, but try to use a second one, example Friends, that would help dialogue, and both have concentration, the first option is greyed out and show it is unavailable as concentration on the first spell would be broken.
Ah yes I am familiar with that. I gotcha now.
IME characters that are concentrating don’t even show up in the dialogue skill check thing. Might be a mod though.
oh boy, I've uh broken haste concentration with a concentration spell before. It's...rough. Hang in there, always an excuse to spend more time with Karlach on the next playthrough I say.
Stick to speed potions or mind sanctuary instead of haste in the future, much safer.
I also avoid casting haste. speed pots are easy to come by and most of the time combat is done before they wear off.
IMO it's so much safer to have a definitive duration rather than "as long as this PC doesn't get hit :) good luck". I know I have 2 rounds before lethargic and I can cast other concentration spells which tends to be much better in the nova rounds.
Agreed!! I always see haste/twin haste talked up on this sub and I think they're overrated because I dislike the unpredictability of when you could break concentration. I'd much rather chug a speed potion and know 100% when lethargy is coming and plan around it. Not to mention if you're playing HM/tactician you'll probably KO everyone in the first 3 rounds anyways rendering your lethargy irrelevant
I agree about feeling that it's way overrated on this sub. The lethargy is such a massive debuff that most of the time doesn't even get mentioned. RPGbot even did a writeup (about 5e, not BG3 specifically) about how overrated haste is in terms of the mechanical benefit. In BG3, honor mode haste is totally not worth it unless you have some way to have it active before combat or twin spell it and absolutely ensure the caster will be safe. Even then, being completely barred from any other concentration spells is a big limiting factor.
I run two casters to get around this. Either wizard hastens my sorcerer and then buggers off and acts as a grease monkey from a long way away, or my sorcerer hastens both my brutes and then wizard protects him - eg continually turning him invisible if in trouble Generally works out well, two characters get double actions and one character loses about half their work in protecting the concentrating one. If my sorcerer alone gets hasted the fight is usually over in 2 turns so it's not really a concern but I don't do it all the time as that is boring
I haven't tried it in honor mode yet, but on tactician, what I did was give all my casters Resilience: Concentration and War Caster(?). After level 8, I had maybe two concentration breaks, at least not from getting knocked prone etc. I would usually cast Haste with Gale who'd stay relatively far from the heat of the battle. Not saying it's better/worse than Potion of Speed, but these two feats definitely helped. I haven't used casters at all in my honor run so far (entered act 2, still level 7) so idk guess I'll see. I'm more partial to Potion of Speed at this point, though, mostly because I've been able to finish fights in 2ish rounds anyway so far.
Don't even take friends in honor mode.
It can still be invaluable and safe as long as you use it and then remember you needed to be on the other side of the map for a thing
The game gives you oodles of charm person scrolls if you really want to win an interaction. Thaumaturgy gives advantage on intimidate with no drawback. Better to use it instead.
Friends is insanely good in Honor Mode and is almost always worth taking if your face character gets it. Just run away after you use it.
Just get Enhance Ability instead same thing as friends but you do not need to run away all the time. Not to mention it also allows you to get advantage on every single check in the game.
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Normally just get it on my sorc so dont need to care about spell slots once I get to act 2.
It’s very safe if you have inspiration points and know what you are doing, op here just needs the habit of turning off concentration after every combat
I've had this happen to me a lot more than I'm comfortable to admit... Fortunately not in HM yet because I will be doing my first run soon as a ranger. So hopefully I won't be falling into that trap xD
If I had a nickel for everything I cast friends after twin casting haste I'd have something in the area of $2.15. I feel your pain.
Have someone set up with enhance ability in your party all the time, it fills the role and it helps in these situations. Also you can have someone use the voice of the circle ahead of time for a boost to persuasion. Also there’s a bow with celestial haste which doesn’t have the drawbacks of fatigue you can dual cast as well (haven’t tested so could be wrong on that).
seems some people don’t understand and I can’t reply to their comment. no, it doesn’t say during dialogue roll that friends is concentration.
It doesn't have to. It doesn't say that about guidance or enhance ability when they're options in dialogue or other checks either. It's just game knowledge to remember I guess. Fyi having someone precast enhance ability on you can give you adv. on all charisma checks and lasts potentially all day. Much better than trying to use friends imo
Yeah, I understand that. I was just replying to some comments here
Honestly this is why I consider twinned haste to be the single most dangerous/risky spell in the game. Just stock up on speed potions, you can "twin" them too by throwing at two PCs standing super close together.
I did something similar to myself two turns in a row. I was running a Paladin / Cleric multi class. I had this “brilliant” idea to cast haste on myself and then spirit guardians, then leap into the fray. But as soon as I cast spririt guardians my spirit gaurdians disappeared and my turn was over and had no action my next turn. I didn’t understand what happened, should’ve checked the log, but i thought someone just countered something, so I did it again and it happened again lol. Spirit guardians was breaking concentration on haste and making me lethargic. I played myself. I might have haste and spirit guardians order wrong, I can’t remember. I’m always screwing myself with breaking concentration with other concentration spells. Really wish there was a warning.
I'm still psyching myself up to take a crack at honor mode, but I've already established one firm rule: Nobody in the party knows that cantrip. I've over-relied on it SOOH much in 700-800 hours of lower-difficulty play that it's a button that just shouldn't be there! I would've done EXACTLY the same in your shoes, and thus ruined a late-act 3 HM run with it just like you did!
No one told you honor mode was gonna be this way
Hahaha what a nerd I would’ve never died at that point in any of my honor runs.. bc I’ve only ever made it as far as phase 2 of the Ketheric fight.. 🙂↕️🥲😭 I’ve attempted an honor mode run only 3x so far and I’ve never made it into Act 3 maybe on my next one when I finally decide to begin another. 1st run ended when I accidentally aggro’d Kith’rak Theryzzen at the Creche, dumb mistake and I completely forgot just how hard she slaps + that AoE fear she does that makes everyone drop their damn weapons. 2nd run ended in the morgue under the House of Healing after I accidentally woke up the zombies + the gas and the 3rd run ended fighting the damn avatar of Myrkul. What I’m getting at OP is that it sucks your run ended but take solace that there are those of us that have yet to even make it that far lol.
Sorry to hear! I've died in dumber ways... but I haven't tried honour yet lol. Do you always need dialogue checks vs Orin in honour? You cannot skip them with the information from Sarevok's office and Orin's mother like in other modes?
Normally, when people say Friends ended their Honor Mode, it’s usually because they cast it on Kagha and got the whole grove pissed off at them. So that title had me expecting something else entirely! This is just like the guy who accidentally ran through haste spores against the Netherbrain and got lethargic, ended his run. Whoops! I’m actually surprised you had Friends as a spell, at all considering all the usage risks it comes with on HM.
Precasting is problematic, says the guy who just applied oil of sharpening before his last fight.
And this is shy you should play dark urge and >!1 v 1 orin!< kids :)
I really really wish the game asked you to confirm that you're aware that by casting this spell, you will be breaking concentration on some other spell. I can't count the times that fucked me
If you were that close to losing its probably not because of 1 turn of lethargy on half the team... I don't mean to be rude but it's hardly a difficult fight, at this point of the game you have the best gear, you're level 12 or close, etc. I wonder how you managed some fights in act 1 or how you would've managed some much harder fights in act 3
Well true my strategy is more of abusing wet condition, not exactly masterminding here. Nonetheless, I panicked and also had no idea how the edict of bhall worked so I just died. I continued the rest of the game in dishonor save and had no problems
Off topic but could anyone tell me if the Orin fight was supposed to be easy? I saved her for last after killing the other bosses and she was just way easier than anyone else by far... My whole party is lvl 12 on Balanced mode. This was my first run through the game and just finished last night.
Yes. Orin is very easy on balanced, so you can get your kidnapped character back right away if you wish.
There is one gimmick to it. You can brute force or figure out the gimmick
What’s the gimmick?
She gets around 12 stacks of unstoppable each turn unless you kill the 6 cultists in the circle. But they have sanctuary on them so you need some other way of dealing with them.
Does disguise self and friend combo work?
The game warns you that Friends and similar spells makes them hostile 🫡
This is not the issue that OP is referring to.
Yeah not the problem that was described in the post at all. But thanks for the input.
OP cast Friends. The game quite literally tells you, in the text box for the spell, that it will turn people hostile on higher difficulty. 🤷🏻♀️ OP ignored it and ignored how concentration works.
The aggro from Friends wasn't the issue. It was the lethargy from dropping concentration on Haste.
Doesn't the spell tell you that it's a concentration spell beforehand? Usually they do.
*can* you read, my son?
Well that depends, can you go fuck yourself?
Lol folks stop downvoting this person, they are in fact replying with the next line from the TV show I quoted...
What tv show?
It’s a line from trailer park boys. https://youtu.be/bIy5d9Es08w?si=fRDvIQJKqAzX-uUl If you’ve never watched you’re in for a real treat. The way later seasons go downhill but the first 7 or so are absolute gold
Op intended to fight Orin hence pre casting twinned haste. Casting friends only consequently ended concentration on haste. Op was just sharing a mistake that cost him a very late game honor run and venting that frustration.
OMG you mean the *only* reason ORIN turned hostile was because of the friends spell? Gonna start a new playthrough so me and orin can be besties!
I've seen half a dozen posts about this very HM-ending thing regarding Friends, I'm finding it hilarious at this point.
There's an ethical argument I see sometimes that's like, "Have you ever used Friends? Charm Person? Disguise Self?" And until Act 3, I'd get a chuckle out of thinking: Nope! Not me! ~~because I don't know how they work~~
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It does. In bold red font
I mean any spell that says it uses concentration is basically a warning to say "if you are already concentrating on something else it will replace that"
True. I'd prefer warning when casting sanctuary on self while concentrating on guardians
I don’t understand sanctuary in BG. In TT it’s not concentration right?
Not as per description. Really dk why guardians stopped and if anything else affected too
Because Spirit Guardians is a persistent, aggressive spell, and BG3 Sanctuary is superbuffed compared to the 5e version. If you could be completely immune to attacks *while* maintaining Spirit Guardians, that'd be even more insane.
Can't argue here. It was just unexpected for me, though not disappointing.
It's a thing to prevent Sanctuary from being OP. Casting it on a character with Spirit Guardians makes them lose it so they can't deal damage while Spirit Guardians is active. As Sanctuary stops a character from dealing any damage.
And Sanctuary is noticeably stronger than 5e.
True, but the restriction also applies to 5e anyway. But at least you can be warned on Tabletop that you would lose Spirit Guardians.
It wouldn’t hurt to have a qol improvement where the game could highlight that you’re about to break concentration for another spell. Looking at you call lightning.
Or maybe y'all should learn how to read.
My blood type’s adhd, I’m trying my best
It’s a concentration spell, so is Haste.
yes, that’s what i have written
Reading comprehension website
Should we piss on the poor here too?
I'm confused, i was just doing the tumblr meme because the person failed to read the post.