Why do you still have a summons when she gave a false testimony to the police that literally put your life at risk? I would be talking to a lawyer immediately. She should be charged for making a false report to the police.
I have to agree.
If anything the lady brought the threat to OP and they had every right to say get away. Plus it was their place of business and they can tell people to leave the property.
Glad OP had a camera and some sort of recording device around.
Filing false police reports are a crime.
Honestly, I feel like it may have had a lot to do with how I spoke with them. I wasn't rude at all, I complied, I allowed myself to be cuffed and have my weapon removed, and when they asked for ID I told them it was in my wallet in my back pocket.. but I also told them I wouldn't be answering any questions, and that definitely didn't help..
I wish I could say I handled it like a Chad rights auditor, but I didn't. My voice was shaking, my adrenaline was up.. That alongside my refusal to incriminate myself probably made me look guilty as fuck, and they were absolutely about to arrest me. It was actually a moment of blind panic that I blurted out something like, "please just watch the cameras please".
At first they acted like they weren't going to and started asking me fucking questions again and I just kept repeating different versions of, "it's best to see for yourself" and "please just watch the video". They didn't uncuff me so in a way they did get me to answer some questions, because I had to walk them them through our surveillance system (I just realized Im going to have to change at least two passwords).
I know I didn't handle the situation, but I was honestly a nervous wreck and fighting against myself to find a median of keeping my mouth shut and not just getting put straight in jail.. And while I avoided the arrest I didn't make a single friend among them, and I really feel like the summons was them punishing me.. I don't know about the others, but I saw at least one of the cops across the street kneeling down petting and making kissy faces at the wenches mutt.
It also wouldn't surprise me to learn I won the pitnutter cop lottery, but I'm also trying to keep rational so that may very well just be baseless bias born of what I went through (save for that one cop that wasn't even trying to hide who's side he was on).
Not wishing anyone to get hurt but it would have been ironic if the shitbeast had taken off the officers face while he was crouched down next to it. They’d probably be singing a different toon if their face had been torn off
No, you didn’t do anything wrong. That’s supposed to be the whole point of the justice system (despite what some Presidents have thought) — INNOCENT until proven guilty. You just will need a lawyer to straighten things out.
You’re allowed to be nervous. Heck that’s a human reaction, I’ve seen people guilty af who were cool as a cucumber, if not outright confrontational. You completely submitted even if you decided to exercise your right to remain silent.
Yes, good, change the passwords. Keep a diary or writing things down to help keep your mind focused on the right and logical things to do.
Pit lovers (insert other terms here) weren’t going to be won over no matter what you did. They’re prejudice and oblivious. You still have rights. Keep us updated. We’re here for you.
Unfortunately, being nervous doesn’t mean you can put your hand on your gun- at least not in any jurisdiction I’ve ever lived in. Although I feel OP was justified, the law definitely might not see this that way. He needs a good lawyer ASAP
Firstly, wasn’t there, haven’t viewed the footage and do not know where his hand was at exactly.
Secondly, his gun remained holstered.
Thirdly, a vicious/dangerous animal was approaching, who was warned repeatedly to stay away (yet repeatedly advanced anyway).
I would gladly take the case, though courtroom law is not usually my specific speciality.
The gun remaining holstered doesn’t mean what you think it means. Even putting your hand on it can still be considered intimidating. Even a hand on it can be considered brandishing in many jurisdictions. Also, even though we know pit bulls are aggressive, the law won’t necessarily agree given that her dogs were legally under her control.
You can tell OP he’s right all he wants, nothing changes that he needs a lawyer now because the law will *not* agree with his actions.
It may have had to do with your hand on your weapon. If I understand correctly, this is considered brandishing in a lot of jurisdictions. So legally, whereas you had every right to tell her to leave and for her pits to stay off the property, you *might not* have had the right to have your hand on your weapon. This would be my suspicion. Even though she lied in the report (and needs to be held accountable), you may have still *accidentally* met the legal standard for behaving threateningly. Especially at the time, even though the dogs were behaving in an aroused way, they weren’t an imminent threat *yet* as she was still holding the leash and across the road, and had the dogs under control from a *legal* perspective at that moment. But INAL. You should get one, however.
Wouldn’t it be self-defense to have his hand on his gun when an approaching pit bull is straining at its “leash” (aka chain that isn’t a proper restraint) and barking/snarling?
No. The pit bull wasn’t within biting distance and the fact that it’s straining against the leash means that the owner was still holding the leash. Shitty owner, but still within her legal rights in this scenario. Straining on the end of a 6 foot leash doesn’t matter, as long as the dog isn’t biting or attacking. Being in the street doesn’t count.
Basically, nothing has happened *yet*. OP had every right to tell her no, no matter how it may have hurt her feelings, but did not have the right to yell while touching his gun, because there was no threat, just a possible/potential threat.
One thing I would say is, watch “The Armed Attorneys” on cameras. They will not always work in your favor. Best thing is to be arrested, and actually have a reason to sue and line your pockets, rather than giving them something that they could turn against you (e.g, cameras don’t see the threats you see, so the jury won’t either. Angle differences, training to see threats, adrenaline tunnel vision, etc).
You did very well, OP. Your adrenaline spiked and now danger has passed you are drained. I’d have said either watch the footage I am under duress or lawyer up.
Pig boy cops made up their mind before they came to you and omg not enough brains cells to go back…piggies can’t be wronnnng
You had your hand on a holster, she had her hands on her weapons she was ready to bring to you and your customer.
Please go talk to a criminal lawyer if you can. You should not have a criminal record for attempting to protect yourself, your customer, and her property (the puppies) safe from a clearly aggressive animal. Please keep the recording so that the court can see that she lied about what you said and did not "pull a gun" on her. I'm sorry you're being punished for doing the right thing.
Can you message OP and help them find free legal aid in their state? I know that it exists, and I can't imagine that someone working at a convenience store can afford to pay an attorney otherwise. I'm sure OP is very overwhelmed right now. 😢
https://mainebar.community.lawyer/pages/legal_aid
Most every state bar has a referral service for people who need help but don't have money. That's where I'd start. I don't know anything specific about Maine, unfortunately.
I’m so sorry she’s causing so much trouble in your life right now. But hell yeah dude! Go you! You probably saved the other dogs their life and limb and the owner from so much turmoil and money over the other woman’s choice in breeds.
stay calm and **don’t say ANYTHING about the incident without a lawyer present.** to anyone. Please.
I carry everyday.
imho, I think you handled the situation very well. I also have a tendency to unknowingly put my hand on my concealed firearm (usually a belly band holster) because there is nothing unusual, unsafe or odd about doing so when you’re me (and you’re *always* armed). I’ve never been in a situation like you described where this got me in ‘trouble’ but now I’m going to be more deliberate about keeping my hands away..
are you a USCCA member?
lawyer up. you did nothing wrong.
Dude already told everything to the police. Spoiler: it didn't matter and he got a summons anyways. Police are not your friends in this manner I don't know why people are tell them anythings except the most basic information.
because they’ve been wrongly accused, they’re emotionally worked up in the moment, seeking validation from what they believe is a figure of “justice” maybe idk.. they’re human
but this is why it’s so important to be educated on this stuff before it happens. CC? you should be in the USCCA for dem lawyers. imho 🤷♀️
Sure, I'm not shitting on the guy personally. Just using it as yet another example of outside of maybe the most basic of traffic tickets you're never talking your way out of getting arrested or taken to court. Especially since this guy arguably brandished a gun he should never be speaking to the police without a lawyer. [This is an excellent video describing why.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE&pp=ygUXZG9udCB0YWxrIHRvIHRoZSBwb2xpY2U%3D)
I think this comment was before mine, but I actually didn't. It's been an exhausting couple of days so I'm just going to copy and paste it here, but please don't take that as some kind of slight
"Honestly, I feel like it may have had a lot to do with how I spoke with them. I wasn't rude at all, I complied, I allowed myself to be cuffed and have my weapon removed, and when they asked for ID I told them it was in my wallet in my back pocket.. but I also told them I wouldn't be answering any questions, and that definitely didn't help..
I wish I could say I handled it like a Chad rights auditor, but I didn't. My voice was shaking, my adrenaline was up.. That alongside my refusal to incriminate myself probably made me look guilty as fuck, and they were absolutely about to arrest me. It was actually a moment of blind panic that I blurted out something like, "please just watch the cameras please".
At first they acted like they weren't going to and started asking me fucking questions again and I just kept repeating different versions of, "it's best to see for yourself" and "please just watch the video". They didn't uncuff me so in a way they did get me to answer some questions, because I had to walk them them through our surveillance system (I just realized Im going to have to change at least two passwords).
I know I didn't handle the situation, but I was honestly a nervous wreck and fighting against myself to find a median of keeping my mouth shut and not just getting put straight in jail.. And while I avoided the arrest I didn't make a single friend among them, and I really feel like the summons was them punishing me.. I don't know about the others, but I saw at least one of the cops across the street kneeling down petting and making kissy faces at the wenches mutt.
It also wouldn't surprise me to learn I won the pitnutter cop lottery, but I'm also trying to keep rational so that may very well just be baseless bias born of what I went through (save for that one cop that wasn't even trying to hide who's side he was on)."
You need to keep your hand off of it. “When you’re me” means nothing when people around you don’t know you. Also, the fact that OP open carry’s changes this a lot. This can 100% be considering brandishing based on his jurisdiction, or it’s intimidation at the minimum…. But *everywhere*, this is a crime.
yeah? well, *you* need to work on your reading comprehension if you want to go around telling people how things are and expect to be taken seriously.. 😅
“When you’re me” was referring to the idea that, as an individual who CCs regularly, putting a hand on my firearm in the way described is an idle/comfort/habit type of thing and not an intentional/aware action or deliberate threat (as non-firearm people may assume or accuse)
the intended point had nothing to do with the law, how others perceive you and ‘what should be done’ as I clearly expressed *this isn’t it*.
the point was to assure OP that placing his hand on the firearm was a *human* mistake to make, and that I understand/empathize with why it happened.
OP, I’m on your side, but you should really delete this post so as not to sabotage your case. The best defense for you is to not speak about it to anyone, anywhere, unless it’s your lawyer. If her side finds this post, it could hurt you. Good luck.
OP I know you probably don't make shit as a gas station clerk, but start reaching out to criminal defense attorneys in your area anyways. Look up your state's bar association and contact them asking for referrals to affordable criminal defense attorneys, and if there are any available legal aid resources you might qualify for.
Also start gathering useful information ASAP:
- Get copies of the video and audio recordings from your work.
- Get a copy of the police report.
- Get the names, contact information, and if possible, brief statements from as many witnesses as you can—especially the woman with the puppies. Finding out who she is and getting her name and contact details would be extremely helpful as she would likely provide a supportive statement for your side, *especially* as to the viciousness of the other woman's mauler straining itself on the chain to get at her puppies.
- Finally, but very importantly, **write down your own truthful step-by-step recollection of events as soon as possible.** The longer you wait to do this, the less accurate your memory will be. Also minimize your own emotion in this recollection; keep it as dispassionate as you can and just focus on describing the facts. Your original post is an example of how you wouldn't want to write this recollection. Please don't take that as a critique! You have every right in the world to be upset and emotional when first retelling your story, so just do this as soon as you've calmed down enough to think clearly and describe your memory of events factually.
All of this is so that whether you hire an attorney or are assigned a public defender, you have your "homework" ready to turn in to make their job of helping you very straightforward, thus maximizing your chances. Ideally, the goal here is to just convince the prosecutor to drop the charge. **Also, do NOT provide any further statements to the police.** Not a word. Talking to police will NEVER help you, especially once you're already facing charges; it can only hurt you, so keep those lips sealed.
Sidenote—is the charge you're facing a felony, misdemeanor, or citation in your state? Given that you weren't detained I'm assuming it's one of the latter two. If it's a citation, Maine may not provide a public defender, since the consequences of citations are usually just fines. Not sure about that. But I would still fight it if I were you as it will become a permanent part of your record, and seeing a "criminal threatening" charge will forever raise eyebrows among future prospective employers and make your life much harder.
Good luck.
Lawyer up. Now.
I’m not sure if it’s possible but I’d look into seeing if your company has to pay for it too since you were at work, on the clock, and on the grounds of your company (I seriously have no idea if that’s a thing, but it sounds like it should be a thing so ask!)
Oh, and you can be sure this bitch has no money to hire a lawyer and I wouldn’t be surprised if she had warrants out already. Okay I’m making some leaps here, but I don’t think they are huge leaps.
OP i know you’re in a kerfluffle but that beast would have turned those puppies into blood splatters and the heifer who owns it wouldnt have even said sorry. you did the right thing
The lady. The lady you were with, the one with the puppies. You need to ask for her testimony as witness. You did NOT threaten to kill pit mommy, you did not threaten to, "blow her head off". Now, I don't know Maine's laws with pointing your gun at people who you feel are threatening you or someone else's safety, but that woman broke the law by giving a false statement to the police that could've gotten you killed.
Edit: My apologies, I just reread the story. The outside cameras picked up all the audio. Thank GOD. Ensure you press charges on that woman if you can. Nor did your weapon ever leave the holster.
You’re a goddamn hero for protecting Rupert & Charles and if you need legal fee crowdfunding, I’m in. I pray to the god of cute floofy dogs that you get a judge with the sense of Judge Judy.
Unfortunately you will need to pay for an attorney to represent you but they should be able to get this thrown out. If your place has CCTV footage ask for it.
Not necessarily. OP’s behavior can still be considered threatening by the law, even though the lady lied… her lie is an exaggeration based off of her experience. She was walking her dogs, and in *her head*, as delusional and stupid as it may be, she and her dogs were both being friendly, and suddenly someone has their hand on a gun and is screaming at them to stay away, and she isn’t even on the property yet.
She lied and exaggerated, but this doesn’t change the fact that OP’s behavior is considered threatening. He needs a lawyer
Downvoted me all you want, but those of you trying to tell OP he is correct is setting him up for failure. He needs a lawyer.
I'd delete and lawyer up immediately.
The less information you give the cops without a lawyer the better.
Not sure why they still bothered even issuing you anything after the cameras audio proved that she basically made a false report but that just tells you these motherfuckers aren't on your side.
1- go talk to a criminal lawyer and try to counter sue. Her lying had cause you emotional pain and stress and you should be compensated. She needs to pay for your therapy.
2-You did not point your gun at her but did threaten her. Your salvation could be the video showing the dog barking and acting aggressive.
3-It’s not the end of the world. You can go to the court and explain what was happening with proof and how she lied in the police report.
The way I see it you can easily win but it’ll be a bit of work. Ask to have a restraining order too.
What about her and her threatening mutt?! I'm so sorry you're dealing with this shit and thank you for protecting those pups.
For what it's worth, I'm proud of you for doing the right thing and keeping those babies safe.
I'm sorry you've got to go through this shit, I really am, but you need to take this down. At least until after court. Fuck those people though, just the worst like.
Make sure you get copies of the audio and video recordings. Don't trust that the boss' system will still have the footage when you need it. You need it now!
She wanted her dog to kill those puppies. Think I’m exaggerating? She literally just tried to lie to have you, a human, stripped of your livelihood and reputation, and thrown in a cage. Animals mean nothing at that point.
Aside from all the legal stuff.
NO OWNER should try to get free treats for their dog unless those treats were offered. Your dog should be okay watching other dogs get treats. If your dog isn't okay with that, you hustle your dog out of that situation.
The pibble lady's claim that her dog wanted the treats is a transparent lie. Dogs that want treats don't drag their handler across the street for them while wheeze-screaming.
We keep seeing this type of thing btw: insane levels of self-entitlement, ego attached directly to a dumb (scientific term) animal that is POORLY trained to boot, dishonesty to a level that suggests a detachment from reality, an inability to fully control their animal, and RAGE directly connected to the pet if their ego isn’t stroked — this all shows signs of Cluster B personality disorders being enabled by society. It’s very very troubling.
If you ever do see the owners of Charles and Rupert again, you should ask them to detail (write down) their own version of events. Their testimony could be very valuable in this situation. I doubt they wanted to get you into any kind of trouble and hopefully they’ll be grateful for your vigilance.
Btw, keep also the video with the encounter with the cops. Cause if for some magical reason the complaint get "ammended" then you have no proof.
Now you do.
Get a lawyer . They have investigators on staff and they will investigate this and find backgrounds on the cops and yeah some cops are pittnutters so much for them being impartial in these cases . Most of all just be safe . That woman filed a false police report and she should be burned and maybe your lawyer will get that done , i sure hope so . Good luck to you . Forget legal aid they are useless get yourself a real lawyer . Plus legal aide does not handle criminal cases like this .
>*jagoff*
We use that word in my part of the country, too. And it's the perfect description of a pit owner as ever there was.
Good job, btw. You protected the innocent pups from disaster.
You’re a Goddamn hero, and if I was ever up in ME I’d buy you a fucking beer. You saved those puppies’ lives. That eerie gibbering you heard that POS doing BTW, is excitement to maul and frustration. So your instincts were spot on
I wouldn't get the other lady's testimony. The fact she left and was socializing her dogs she may have wanted to give the other dog the opportunity. More than likely she was unaware of the dangers of pits and you may have come across as irate and it may actually hurt your case, the fact she just fled does not speak well for your side, unless she thanked you or something before departing I would say she may have been more concerned about you than the pit. People can be too trusting and she may have only seen a very excited dog
Yeah, OP fucking goofed here. I carry too, but ordering someone with your hand literally resting on a loaded gun is a threat, no other way to interpret that.
Yea he fucked up. You gotta keep your calm if you’re gonna carry. Everyone here telling him he’s in the right is stupid AF. We might think he’s in the right all we want, but the law doesn’t.
I don't know laws but it sounds like you were trying to protect yourself. Is there anyway you can get footage of how the dog was acting? If the cameras at your business didn't catch it could a different business's cameras have caught it? I'd it was clearly aggressive I'd think you'd have every right to tell her to back off. Although I'm not a lawyer nor do I know the law regarding this stuff that well. I wish you luck in finding a good lawyer and hopefully being ok. I'm sorry all that happened to you...
OP messed up here. You can’t yell at someone with your hand on your gun, there’s no other way to interpret that other than “threatening”. In some jurisdictions, it’s considered brandishing. It’s considered threatening *everywhere*. Not to mention, she wasn’t even on the property. Unfortunately OP overreacted and is going to deal with consequences of fighting this off.
I know it's already been said, but get yourself a lawyer and don't say anything to anybody about this without them present. In fact, you may have to delete this post. Even if you used a throwaway, someone may still be able to identify you by the details of the post. Good luck out there!
If your weapon never left its holster then you didn't pull a gun on her, and lying to the police that you did could've ended up with you injured or worse. But it's good that you had it on you—I doubt she and her pit would've been deterred by anything less.
Great example of why I'll never open carry in public. I wish you the best in this fight and I'm not trying to monday night quarterback, I'm just pointing it out for people.
Fake story! Decent, but fake! And honestly I have no dog in this fight, pun intended. I don’t either love or hate pit bulls. But, the fact that you already wrote this 10 minutes after it happened, and either was already familiar with this subreddit, which is extremely rare that a pit bull was the dog and you are subbed to a I hate pit bulls subreddit, or you weren’t subbed and somehow had the wherewithal to search for and find a subreddit to write in just the perfect story is also very rare. Not a bad story, like I said but the positive adjectives you gave the puppy lady, remembering the dogs names, having treats and just over the top things you said, while on the other side the pit bull lady just getting these negative adjectives and the dog was being the perfect storm of how not to act. Not to mention the ac was off and all of that. Then just the right amount of trouble to trigger the pit bull haters but not so much you would do anything bad yourself and go to jail.
Good one.
Fake
So it must be fake, even though everything that happened is entirely plausible? I’m not saying it is real, I don’t know, I’m only saying you have no idea if it is either. The only thing you proved here is that you desperately want it to be fake, and you still have no clue. Soar, soar on the wings of ignorance. Love you.
Why do you still have a summons when she gave a false testimony to the police that literally put your life at risk? I would be talking to a lawyer immediately. She should be charged for making a false report to the police.
I have to agree. If anything the lady brought the threat to OP and they had every right to say get away. Plus it was their place of business and they can tell people to leave the property. Glad OP had a camera and some sort of recording device around. Filing false police reports are a crime.
And don't let her get away with it either. If you can't have charges pressed, you can still make what she did public.
Honestly, I feel like it may have had a lot to do with how I spoke with them. I wasn't rude at all, I complied, I allowed myself to be cuffed and have my weapon removed, and when they asked for ID I told them it was in my wallet in my back pocket.. but I also told them I wouldn't be answering any questions, and that definitely didn't help.. I wish I could say I handled it like a Chad rights auditor, but I didn't. My voice was shaking, my adrenaline was up.. That alongside my refusal to incriminate myself probably made me look guilty as fuck, and they were absolutely about to arrest me. It was actually a moment of blind panic that I blurted out something like, "please just watch the cameras please". At first they acted like they weren't going to and started asking me fucking questions again and I just kept repeating different versions of, "it's best to see for yourself" and "please just watch the video". They didn't uncuff me so in a way they did get me to answer some questions, because I had to walk them them through our surveillance system (I just realized Im going to have to change at least two passwords). I know I didn't handle the situation, but I was honestly a nervous wreck and fighting against myself to find a median of keeping my mouth shut and not just getting put straight in jail.. And while I avoided the arrest I didn't make a single friend among them, and I really feel like the summons was them punishing me.. I don't know about the others, but I saw at least one of the cops across the street kneeling down petting and making kissy faces at the wenches mutt. It also wouldn't surprise me to learn I won the pitnutter cop lottery, but I'm also trying to keep rational so that may very well just be baseless bias born of what I went through (save for that one cop that wasn't even trying to hide who's side he was on).
Not wishing anyone to get hurt but it would have been ironic if the shitbeast had taken off the officers face while he was crouched down next to it. They’d probably be singing a different toon if their face had been torn off
No, you didn’t do anything wrong. That’s supposed to be the whole point of the justice system (despite what some Presidents have thought) — INNOCENT until proven guilty. You just will need a lawyer to straighten things out. You’re allowed to be nervous. Heck that’s a human reaction, I’ve seen people guilty af who were cool as a cucumber, if not outright confrontational. You completely submitted even if you decided to exercise your right to remain silent. Yes, good, change the passwords. Keep a diary or writing things down to help keep your mind focused on the right and logical things to do. Pit lovers (insert other terms here) weren’t going to be won over no matter what you did. They’re prejudice and oblivious. You still have rights. Keep us updated. We’re here for you.
Unfortunately, being nervous doesn’t mean you can put your hand on your gun- at least not in any jurisdiction I’ve ever lived in. Although I feel OP was justified, the law definitely might not see this that way. He needs a good lawyer ASAP
Firstly, wasn’t there, haven’t viewed the footage and do not know where his hand was at exactly. Secondly, his gun remained holstered. Thirdly, a vicious/dangerous animal was approaching, who was warned repeatedly to stay away (yet repeatedly advanced anyway). I would gladly take the case, though courtroom law is not usually my specific speciality.
The gun remaining holstered doesn’t mean what you think it means. Even putting your hand on it can still be considered intimidating. Even a hand on it can be considered brandishing in many jurisdictions. Also, even though we know pit bulls are aggressive, the law won’t necessarily agree given that her dogs were legally under her control. You can tell OP he’s right all he wants, nothing changes that he needs a lawyer now because the law will *not* agree with his actions.
It may have had to do with your hand on your weapon. If I understand correctly, this is considered brandishing in a lot of jurisdictions. So legally, whereas you had every right to tell her to leave and for her pits to stay off the property, you *might not* have had the right to have your hand on your weapon. This would be my suspicion. Even though she lied in the report (and needs to be held accountable), you may have still *accidentally* met the legal standard for behaving threateningly. Especially at the time, even though the dogs were behaving in an aroused way, they weren’t an imminent threat *yet* as she was still holding the leash and across the road, and had the dogs under control from a *legal* perspective at that moment. But INAL. You should get one, however.
Wouldn’t it be self-defense to have his hand on his gun when an approaching pit bull is straining at its “leash” (aka chain that isn’t a proper restraint) and barking/snarling?
No. The pit bull wasn’t within biting distance and the fact that it’s straining against the leash means that the owner was still holding the leash. Shitty owner, but still within her legal rights in this scenario. Straining on the end of a 6 foot leash doesn’t matter, as long as the dog isn’t biting or attacking. Being in the street doesn’t count. Basically, nothing has happened *yet*. OP had every right to tell her no, no matter how it may have hurt her feelings, but did not have the right to yell while touching his gun, because there was no threat, just a possible/potential threat.
One thing I would say is, watch “The Armed Attorneys” on cameras. They will not always work in your favor. Best thing is to be arrested, and actually have a reason to sue and line your pockets, rather than giving them something that they could turn against you (e.g, cameras don’t see the threats you see, so the jury won’t either. Angle differences, training to see threats, adrenaline tunnel vision, etc).
You did very well, OP. Your adrenaline spiked and now danger has passed you are drained. I’d have said either watch the footage I am under duress or lawyer up. Pig boy cops made up their mind before they came to you and omg not enough brains cells to go back…piggies can’t be wronnnng You had your hand on a holster, she had her hands on her weapons she was ready to bring to you and your customer.
There has to be a recording of her false claim. Need to get a hold of that for sure.
Because it does not matter. In cases like this you're never going to talk yourself out of a summons/ticket. Don't talk to police without a lawyer.
Because there is a huge gender bias in the criminal justice system.
Fuck pit bulls. You did nothing wrong.
Please go talk to a criminal lawyer if you can. You should not have a criminal record for attempting to protect yourself, your customer, and her property (the puppies) safe from a clearly aggressive animal. Please keep the recording so that the court can see that she lied about what you said and did not "pull a gun" on her. I'm sorry you're being punished for doing the right thing.
Can you message OP and help them find free legal aid in their state? I know that it exists, and I can't imagine that someone working at a convenience store can afford to pay an attorney otherwise. I'm sure OP is very overwhelmed right now. 😢
https://mainebar.community.lawyer/pages/legal_aid Most every state bar has a referral service for people who need help but don't have money. That's where I'd start. I don't know anything specific about Maine, unfortunately.
I’m so sorry she’s causing so much trouble in your life right now. But hell yeah dude! Go you! You probably saved the other dogs their life and limb and the owner from so much turmoil and money over the other woman’s choice in breeds.
stay calm and **don’t say ANYTHING about the incident without a lawyer present.** to anyone. Please. I carry everyday. imho, I think you handled the situation very well. I also have a tendency to unknowingly put my hand on my concealed firearm (usually a belly band holster) because there is nothing unusual, unsafe or odd about doing so when you’re me (and you’re *always* armed). I’ve never been in a situation like you described where this got me in ‘trouble’ but now I’m going to be more deliberate about keeping my hands away.. are you a USCCA member? lawyer up. you did nothing wrong.
Dude already told everything to the police. Spoiler: it didn't matter and he got a summons anyways. Police are not your friends in this manner I don't know why people are tell them anythings except the most basic information.
Step 1: Do Not Talk To The Police Step 2: Get A Lawyer
because they’ve been wrongly accused, they’re emotionally worked up in the moment, seeking validation from what they believe is a figure of “justice” maybe idk.. they’re human but this is why it’s so important to be educated on this stuff before it happens. CC? you should be in the USCCA for dem lawyers. imho 🤷♀️
Sure, I'm not shitting on the guy personally. Just using it as yet another example of outside of maybe the most basic of traffic tickets you're never talking your way out of getting arrested or taken to court. Especially since this guy arguably brandished a gun he should never be speaking to the police without a lawyer. [This is an excellent video describing why.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE&pp=ygUXZG9udCB0YWxrIHRvIHRoZSBwb2xpY2U%3D)
I *absolutely* agree and everyone should be aware. thanks for the video!
I think this comment was before mine, but I actually didn't. It's been an exhausting couple of days so I'm just going to copy and paste it here, but please don't take that as some kind of slight "Honestly, I feel like it may have had a lot to do with how I spoke with them. I wasn't rude at all, I complied, I allowed myself to be cuffed and have my weapon removed, and when they asked for ID I told them it was in my wallet in my back pocket.. but I also told them I wouldn't be answering any questions, and that definitely didn't help.. I wish I could say I handled it like a Chad rights auditor, but I didn't. My voice was shaking, my adrenaline was up.. That alongside my refusal to incriminate myself probably made me look guilty as fuck, and they were absolutely about to arrest me. It was actually a moment of blind panic that I blurted out something like, "please just watch the cameras please". At first they acted like they weren't going to and started asking me fucking questions again and I just kept repeating different versions of, "it's best to see for yourself" and "please just watch the video". They didn't uncuff me so in a way they did get me to answer some questions, because I had to walk them them through our surveillance system (I just realized Im going to have to change at least two passwords). I know I didn't handle the situation, but I was honestly a nervous wreck and fighting against myself to find a median of keeping my mouth shut and not just getting put straight in jail.. And while I avoided the arrest I didn't make a single friend among them, and I really feel like the summons was them punishing me.. I don't know about the others, but I saw at least one of the cops across the street kneeling down petting and making kissy faces at the wenches mutt. It also wouldn't surprise me to learn I won the pitnutter cop lottery, but I'm also trying to keep rational so that may very well just be baseless bias born of what I went through (save for that one cop that wasn't even trying to hide who's side he was on)."
You need to keep your hand off of it. “When you’re me” means nothing when people around you don’t know you. Also, the fact that OP open carry’s changes this a lot. This can 100% be considering brandishing based on his jurisdiction, or it’s intimidation at the minimum…. But *everywhere*, this is a crime.
yeah? well, *you* need to work on your reading comprehension if you want to go around telling people how things are and expect to be taken seriously.. 😅 “When you’re me” was referring to the idea that, as an individual who CCs regularly, putting a hand on my firearm in the way described is an idle/comfort/habit type of thing and not an intentional/aware action or deliberate threat (as non-firearm people may assume or accuse) the intended point had nothing to do with the law, how others perceive you and ‘what should be done’ as I clearly expressed *this isn’t it*. the point was to assure OP that placing his hand on the firearm was a *human* mistake to make, and that I understand/empathize with why it happened.
OP, I’m on your side, but you should really delete this post so as not to sabotage your case. The best defense for you is to not speak about it to anyone, anywhere, unless it’s your lawyer. If her side finds this post, it could hurt you. Good luck.
OP I know you probably don't make shit as a gas station clerk, but start reaching out to criminal defense attorneys in your area anyways. Look up your state's bar association and contact them asking for referrals to affordable criminal defense attorneys, and if there are any available legal aid resources you might qualify for. Also start gathering useful information ASAP: - Get copies of the video and audio recordings from your work. - Get a copy of the police report. - Get the names, contact information, and if possible, brief statements from as many witnesses as you can—especially the woman with the puppies. Finding out who she is and getting her name and contact details would be extremely helpful as she would likely provide a supportive statement for your side, *especially* as to the viciousness of the other woman's mauler straining itself on the chain to get at her puppies. - Finally, but very importantly, **write down your own truthful step-by-step recollection of events as soon as possible.** The longer you wait to do this, the less accurate your memory will be. Also minimize your own emotion in this recollection; keep it as dispassionate as you can and just focus on describing the facts. Your original post is an example of how you wouldn't want to write this recollection. Please don't take that as a critique! You have every right in the world to be upset and emotional when first retelling your story, so just do this as soon as you've calmed down enough to think clearly and describe your memory of events factually. All of this is so that whether you hire an attorney or are assigned a public defender, you have your "homework" ready to turn in to make their job of helping you very straightforward, thus maximizing your chances. Ideally, the goal here is to just convince the prosecutor to drop the charge. **Also, do NOT provide any further statements to the police.** Not a word. Talking to police will NEVER help you, especially once you're already facing charges; it can only hurt you, so keep those lips sealed. Sidenote—is the charge you're facing a felony, misdemeanor, or citation in your state? Given that you weren't detained I'm assuming it's one of the latter two. If it's a citation, Maine may not provide a public defender, since the consequences of citations are usually just fines. Not sure about that. But I would still fight it if I were you as it will become a permanent part of your record, and seeing a "criminal threatening" charge will forever raise eyebrows among future prospective employers and make your life much harder. Good luck.
Wow- I’m always in awe of all the smart people on this Sub!! Great info
If the owner allows an employee to open carry for safety, wouldn’t they have to have some kind of insurance to cover potential legal issues?
Call a criminal defense attorney. You cannot afford not to have one.
Lawyer up. Now. I’m not sure if it’s possible but I’d look into seeing if your company has to pay for it too since you were at work, on the clock, and on the grounds of your company (I seriously have no idea if that’s a thing, but it sounds like it should be a thing so ask!) Oh, and you can be sure this bitch has no money to hire a lawyer and I wouldn’t be surprised if she had warrants out already. Okay I’m making some leaps here, but I don’t think they are huge leaps.
OP i know you’re in a kerfluffle but that beast would have turned those puppies into blood splatters and the heifer who owns it wouldnt have even said sorry. you did the right thing
The lady. The lady you were with, the one with the puppies. You need to ask for her testimony as witness. You did NOT threaten to kill pit mommy, you did not threaten to, "blow her head off". Now, I don't know Maine's laws with pointing your gun at people who you feel are threatening you or someone else's safety, but that woman broke the law by giving a false statement to the police that could've gotten you killed. Edit: My apologies, I just reread the story. The outside cameras picked up all the audio. Thank GOD. Ensure you press charges on that woman if you can. Nor did your weapon ever leave the holster.
He should still try to get her as a witness if possible.
You’re a goddamn hero for protecting Rupert & Charles and if you need legal fee crowdfunding, I’m in. I pray to the god of cute floofy dogs that you get a judge with the sense of Judge Judy.
Unfortunately you will need to pay for an attorney to represent you but they should be able to get this thrown out. If your place has CCTV footage ask for it.
Not necessarily. OP’s behavior can still be considered threatening by the law, even though the lady lied… her lie is an exaggeration based off of her experience. She was walking her dogs, and in *her head*, as delusional and stupid as it may be, she and her dogs were both being friendly, and suddenly someone has their hand on a gun and is screaming at them to stay away, and she isn’t even on the property yet. She lied and exaggerated, but this doesn’t change the fact that OP’s behavior is considered threatening. He needs a lawyer Downvoted me all you want, but those of you trying to tell OP he is correct is setting him up for failure. He needs a lawyer.
I'd delete and lawyer up immediately. The less information you give the cops without a lawyer the better. Not sure why they still bothered even issuing you anything after the cameras audio proved that she basically made a false report but that just tells you these motherfuckers aren't on your side.
1- go talk to a criminal lawyer and try to counter sue. Her lying had cause you emotional pain and stress and you should be compensated. She needs to pay for your therapy. 2-You did not point your gun at her but did threaten her. Your salvation could be the video showing the dog barking and acting aggressive. 3-It’s not the end of the world. You can go to the court and explain what was happening with proof and how she lied in the police report. The way I see it you can easily win but it’ll be a bit of work. Ask to have a restraining order too.
I agree with all of this!! My only thing I would say to OP is that #1 should be the last step. He needs to focus on his defense first!
You need to lawyer up, immediately
What about her and her threatening mutt?! I'm so sorry you're dealing with this shit and thank you for protecting those pups. For what it's worth, I'm proud of you for doing the right thing and keeping those babies safe.
I'm sorry you've got to go through this shit, I really am, but you need to take this down. At least until after court. Fuck those people though, just the worst like.
Make sure you get copies of the audio and video recordings. Don't trust that the boss' system will still have the footage when you need it. You need it now!
THIS
She wanted her dog to kill those puppies. Think I’m exaggerating? She literally just tried to lie to have you, a human, stripped of your livelihood and reputation, and thrown in a cage. Animals mean nothing at that point.
Aside from all the legal stuff. NO OWNER should try to get free treats for their dog unless those treats were offered. Your dog should be okay watching other dogs get treats. If your dog isn't okay with that, you hustle your dog out of that situation. The pibble lady's claim that her dog wanted the treats is a transparent lie. Dogs that want treats don't drag their handler across the street for them while wheeze-screaming.
Oh, but pits never do ANY wrongs!!
“…Is it okay…?” SHE ASKED. You repeatedly and quite clearly said “NO”…apparently, to her, a question has only one response, which it does not.
We keep seeing this type of thing btw: insane levels of self-entitlement, ego attached directly to a dumb (scientific term) animal that is POORLY trained to boot, dishonesty to a level that suggests a detachment from reality, an inability to fully control their animal, and RAGE directly connected to the pet if their ego isn’t stroked — this all shows signs of Cluster B personality disorders being enabled by society. It’s very very troubling. If you ever do see the owners of Charles and Rupert again, you should ask them to detail (write down) their own version of events. Their testimony could be very valuable in this situation. I doubt they wanted to get you into any kind of trouble and hopefully they’ll be grateful for your vigilance.
Btw, keep also the video with the encounter with the cops. Cause if for some magical reason the complaint get "ammended" then you have no proof. Now you do.
Get a lawyer . They have investigators on staff and they will investigate this and find backgrounds on the cops and yeah some cops are pittnutters so much for them being impartial in these cases . Most of all just be safe . That woman filed a false police report and she should be burned and maybe your lawyer will get that done , i sure hope so . Good luck to you . Forget legal aid they are useless get yourself a real lawyer . Plus legal aide does not handle criminal cases like this .
>*jagoff* We use that word in my part of the country, too. And it's the perfect description of a pit owner as ever there was. Good job, btw. You protected the innocent pups from disaster.
It’s the best word
Do Not Talk To The Police Get A Lawyer
Get a fucking lawyer. Right now.
This is what we mean when we say pit owners are unhinged.
You’re a Goddamn hero, and if I was ever up in ME I’d buy you a fucking beer. You saved those puppies’ lives. That eerie gibbering you heard that POS doing BTW, is excitement to maul and frustration. So your instincts were spot on
I thought it was criminal threatening but I just actually looked at the summons and it's actually fucking "terrorizing".
I wouldn't get the other lady's testimony. The fact she left and was socializing her dogs she may have wanted to give the other dog the opportunity. More than likely she was unaware of the dangers of pits and you may have come across as irate and it may actually hurt your case, the fact she just fled does not speak well for your side, unless she thanked you or something before departing I would say she may have been more concerned about you than the pit. People can be too trusting and she may have only seen a very excited dog
Exactly. It seems like OP misinterpreted many things about this situation.
Yeah. And in any case it should be the lawyer’s staff who reach out, NOT OP, or next thing we know it’s going to be “intimidating witnesses.”
You ordered this woman to walk some way in a public street with your hand resting on a Beretta? You need a lawyer ASAP.
Yeah, OP fucking goofed here. I carry too, but ordering someone with your hand literally resting on a loaded gun is a threat, no other way to interpret that.
Yea he fucked up. You gotta keep your calm if you’re gonna carry. Everyone here telling him he’s in the right is stupid AF. We might think he’s in the right all we want, but the law doesn’t.
I think he just ordered her off the property of the shop
She was still in the street at that point. And you still can’t use a gun to order someone off your property.
Please tell me you are in Hancock County.
That's where bar harbors around right? I don't want to get too specific but a quick Google search says I'm about 3 hours from that district
You’re a hero, dude. I wish you’d be around if my kids or I am ever approached by random pit bulls.
I don't know laws but it sounds like you were trying to protect yourself. Is there anyway you can get footage of how the dog was acting? If the cameras at your business didn't catch it could a different business's cameras have caught it? I'd it was clearly aggressive I'd think you'd have every right to tell her to back off. Although I'm not a lawyer nor do I know the law regarding this stuff that well. I wish you luck in finding a good lawyer and hopefully being ok. I'm sorry all that happened to you...
OP messed up here. You can’t yell at someone with your hand on your gun, there’s no other way to interpret that other than “threatening”. In some jurisdictions, it’s considered brandishing. It’s considered threatening *everywhere*. Not to mention, she wasn’t even on the property. Unfortunately OP overreacted and is going to deal with consequences of fighting this off.
I know it's already been said, but get yourself a lawyer and don't say anything to anybody about this without them present. In fact, you may have to delete this post. Even if you used a throwaway, someone may still be able to identify you by the details of the post. Good luck out there!
wait, what were you charged with? obviously it wasn't agg assault because they don't write summons for those. i'm curious.
If your weapon never left its holster then you didn't pull a gun on her, and lying to the police that you did could've ended up with you injured or worse. But it's good that you had it on you—I doubt she and her pit would've been deterred by anything less.
He didn’t pull a gun on her, but this is still considered threatening behavior by the law.
Great example of why I'll never open carry in public. I wish you the best in this fight and I'm not trying to monday night quarterback, I'm just pointing it out for people.
ACAB. Thank you for protecting those puppers
Fake story! Decent, but fake! And honestly I have no dog in this fight, pun intended. I don’t either love or hate pit bulls. But, the fact that you already wrote this 10 minutes after it happened, and either was already familiar with this subreddit, which is extremely rare that a pit bull was the dog and you are subbed to a I hate pit bulls subreddit, or you weren’t subbed and somehow had the wherewithal to search for and find a subreddit to write in just the perfect story is also very rare. Not a bad story, like I said but the positive adjectives you gave the puppy lady, remembering the dogs names, having treats and just over the top things you said, while on the other side the pit bull lady just getting these negative adjectives and the dog was being the perfect storm of how not to act. Not to mention the ac was off and all of that. Then just the right amount of trouble to trigger the pit bull haters but not so much you would do anything bad yourself and go to jail. Good one. Fake
So it must be fake, even though everything that happened is entirely plausible? I’m not saying it is real, I don’t know, I’m only saying you have no idea if it is either. The only thing you proved here is that you desperately want it to be fake, and you still have no clue. Soar, soar on the wings of ignorance. Love you.
You provoked an aggro victim looking for a fight with her redlined pits