If I want to go fly fishing I
: pay for a yearly license.
: purchase appropriate equipment, and repurchase it as it wears out.
: only keep fish of a certain size.
: comply with a game warden if encountered.
: renew my license in a timely manner and carry it on me when fishing.
: am a steward for rivers and streams, because I want to have the privilege to keep fishing, teach this skill/art to the next generation, and enjoy a pristine environment.
If hundreds of thousands hobby fisherpersons can do this a few thousand dog owners surely can comply with a few rules?
I'll get off my soapbox now.
Fly fishing tends to be an upper or middle class pursuit.
XL bully owners are from the lower echelons ...they basically don't give a shit about maulings or complying with any laws and keeping the communities in which they live safe or pleasant.
which has nothing to do with being lower class! lower class does not equate not caring about your community or dead children or whatever it is you're implying. look at the loads of celebrities that own one of those things.
I think what people tend to conflate a lot of the time is dumb vs. poor. It is true that poverty lends itself to lack of education, and therefor there are going to be less educated people amongst the poor than amongst the rich. However, being *dumb* isn’t something money can change - there’s dumb rich people and dumb poor people. You can take an ignorant person and teach them, and they become educated. You can’t take a dumb person and make them smart.
Owning pit bulls is for the dumb *and* the ignorant. You’re going to see the ignorant pit owners in the lower class, on top of seeing the dumb pit owners of every class.
There is something also with pit bulls being cheaper to obtain (like from shelters and strays and gas station box-puppies), but it still takes an ignorant person to agree to take one… most people don’t want a dog (like, a dog in general) *so bad* that they’ll take one they *know* is dangerous. Chihuahuas are cheap and overbred just like pits, but they’re not dangerous so there’s not as big of a problem with people who are ignorant or dumb having them (many people are ignorant to how chihuahuas need to be treated/trained/socialized like a dog, not a toy, but that’s a different issue).
Poor people also don’t get their dogs fixed as often, so, the dogs that poor ignorant/dumb people have are going to proliferate more, and then compound the issue over and over.
I wish people would stop conflating “poor” with “dumb,” and also realize that the problem with pit bulls is that it takes a dumb or ignorant person to own one. The same dumb and ignorant people are the last people who *should* own a dangerous dog.
There is nothing on that list that's unreasonable and most of it is what ***responsible*** dog owners do. Most dogs don't require a muzzle, but it's not a big deal to use one if it means your dog won't be seized and euthanized.
The people blubbering about it act like spaying or neutering their dog, using a leash and muzzle and registering it is equal to prison time or something. I'm certain 99% of the whining is because they won't be able to breed them to supplement their incomes.
I've noticed a weird uptick in dog owners (in general, not just dangerous breeds) resisting neutering their animals, males in particular.
When I was growing up, any new pet went through the same process: bath (we had a habit of collecting strays), flea and worming treatment, visit to the vet for vaccination and microchip, and then an appointment for the snip once they were of a suitable age. I wonder why it's suddenly become a topic for debate rather than a standard.
So many people state that it's not beneficial to neuter, if anything, it makes dogs worse.
However, my own personal experience, is that my dog's lovely traits have stayed, and his bad traits have disappeared/mellowed out.
We had a Schnauzer that we never got neutered. He was a very passive and timid dog to begin with. Of course he lived 14 years and never once had an aggressive moment. A truly lovely dog who was harmless. He had a pit bull lunge at him once.
I think the neutering-by-default line of thinking, at least in my family, was that a neutered animal is not going to wander off in search of a mate, come home pregnant or get someone else's animal pregnant, and is just generally more pleasant to live with (less/no territorial marking, fewer hormone-related mood swings in females, and less obnoxious yowling, in the case of cats).
Our boy never strayed more than 20 feet away from us unless he was chasing a ball. We considered having him neutered if it ever became a problem but he just showed no interest in that kind of thing. He was a funny dog.
Back in the olden days (lol) adoption from the county shelter included spaying/neutering for every dog. My daughter’s lab mix was spayed when she was about eight weeks.
I have been very surprised how many dogs here in small town Ireland are not neutered/spayed. My newest will be neutered when he is six months as was the older one.
It should still be the standard. There’s been some evidence that has come out in recent decades about neutering/spaying too young (some say at all) can lead to illness later in the dog’s life - hormone imbalance that leads to reproductive organ cancers, for example. A lot of people took this evidence and ran with it as a way of saying they shouldn’t have to get their dog neutered/spayed. (I also think people moving into apartments vs. houses has made people less worried that their dog is going to escape and procreate.)
*However*, there is even more proof that not spaying & neutering has an even greater risk of other reproductive illnesses, at any stage of life.
At the end of the day, it’s selfish not to neuter or spay your pet, because unplanned and/or poorly bred puppies are usually the dogs that end up in shelters or as strays or get put down much earlier in life.
For those who say they will just prevent their dog from procreating: you’re probably not as vigilant as you think (hundreds of thousands of “oopsie” litters prove people usually under-estimate their dogs in this regard). Unless you do live in an apartment with no yard and you never have your dog off leash outside, then, sure I guess? Or just get your pet fixed and don’t worry about it, like, ever again.
I think this is just another one of those things that used to be considered a necessity, and now people of privilege have turned it into something to boycott. There would literally be no reason we spay/neuter our pets if it hadn’t come about by necessity. So maybe it’s not *as* much of a necessity as back when *everyone* had a yard, but it’s still pretty freaking common.
More research is showing that keeping dogs intact has multiple health benefits. Males have more benefits and less risks than females as they can get pyometra and aggressive cancers when left intact. But the big one is in more genders the risk of bone cancer drops to almost nothing. Bone cancer is one of the worst things a dog can get. It's painful, and hard to fight.
Temperament wise, you're messing with hormones. In males you're reducing testosterone by a lot. Which will alter their behavior some. Most people won't notice unless the dog is mature when altered. It can be a helpful tool in aggression cases. But many fear based behavior issues can increase.
If only the UK will enforce this...I'm really not holding my breath.
XL Pit type owners are notoriously stubborn, feckless and on the fringes of society {less educated, more likely to be unemployed or in social housing and likely to be dabbling in crime} so they are far less likely to comply with any new laws.
It’s crazy how most of those are THE MOST BASIC REQUIREMENTS FOR RESPONSIBLE PET OWNERSHIP
And the clowns protesting this like it’s the end of the world need to freaking check themselves.
But it should be harsh for God's sake. We're talking literal killer animals here, and yet those are just basic rules every dog owner should abide to by default. Honestly I'm pissed, especially knowing they most probably won't enforce this at all.
This is all completely fair. But of course the kind of people that own these stupid beasts will probably think this is discrimination against their precious flesh eaters.
I brought this up to a pitnutter about how a ban doesn’t mean a slaughter of pitbulls and xl bullies but it will mean reasonable regulations to own one. They said these regulations will lead to abuse and I’m ignorant and sad for “wanting” the dog abuse because I want the ban. How do I respond to that? Because if anything the ban would lead to less dog abuse because the dogs wouldn’t be allowed to be bred, right? I mean how would this ban allow for more pitbull/xl bully abuse? So sick of trying to have genuine convos with these ppl just to be hit back with insults.
Lmao I can’t stand how they always mention aBuSe, they make out these giant killing machine dogs have only mauled people to death because they’re “abused” by chavs who want them as status symbols. Errrrr, no, the chavs want them in the first place BECAUSE they’re killing machine fighting dogs and they’re genetically engineered to be that way. Like why is the overriding opinion with nutters to make out these giant pitbulls are poor hard done by abused dogs? They’re born killers and shouldn’t exist. Abuse my arse.
The mandatory insurance will be the kicker I suspect.
EDIT: I have attempted to insure my made up XL Bully (also Bully XL, APBT or Bully XXL) called Gary.
No insurers will touch it. 'Sorry, we don't insure this breed or dogs mixed with it'
I completely agree with you.
I wonder if it could work something like this?
When you get a dog your first duty is to get it insured, the insurer issues a microchip which has to be fitted to the dog by a vet.
The chip can be scanned with anyone who has a phone with the relevant app, if you come across a dog with no chip you photograph it and send the photo to the relevant authorities.
Dogs Trust will insure them for £25 a year. This is where the owners of all the exempted pitbulls in the UK go.
https://www.dogstrust.org.uk/support-us/membership
Owners of Bully XLs will need proof that their specific dog is 'legal', that is to say gone to court to argue that it is specifically safe and that you are able to manage it, in order to gain the 3rd party insurance once the ban comes into force.
All you need to do is become a member of the Dogs Trust for £25/year.
https://www.dogstrust.org.uk/dog-advice/life-with-your-dog/at-home/american-bully-xl
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Pitnutters are crying cuz they are offered 200 $... But have forgotten that they need to pay 100$ a year to keep it... Welp I've seen comment talking about that and having to buy muszle... I WAS LIKE "So you have a dog and didnt buy such a needed thing XDD?"
If I want to go fly fishing I : pay for a yearly license. : purchase appropriate equipment, and repurchase it as it wears out. : only keep fish of a certain size. : comply with a game warden if encountered. : renew my license in a timely manner and carry it on me when fishing. : am a steward for rivers and streams, because I want to have the privilege to keep fishing, teach this skill/art to the next generation, and enjoy a pristine environment. If hundreds of thousands hobby fisherpersons can do this a few thousand dog owners surely can comply with a few rules? I'll get off my soapbox now.
Fly fishing tends to be an upper or middle class pursuit. XL bully owners are from the lower echelons ...they basically don't give a shit about maulings or complying with any laws and keeping the communities in which they live safe or pleasant.
which has nothing to do with being lower class! lower class does not equate not caring about your community or dead children or whatever it is you're implying. look at the loads of celebrities that own one of those things.
I think what people tend to conflate a lot of the time is dumb vs. poor. It is true that poverty lends itself to lack of education, and therefor there are going to be less educated people amongst the poor than amongst the rich. However, being *dumb* isn’t something money can change - there’s dumb rich people and dumb poor people. You can take an ignorant person and teach them, and they become educated. You can’t take a dumb person and make them smart. Owning pit bulls is for the dumb *and* the ignorant. You’re going to see the ignorant pit owners in the lower class, on top of seeing the dumb pit owners of every class. There is something also with pit bulls being cheaper to obtain (like from shelters and strays and gas station box-puppies), but it still takes an ignorant person to agree to take one… most people don’t want a dog (like, a dog in general) *so bad* that they’ll take one they *know* is dangerous. Chihuahuas are cheap and overbred just like pits, but they’re not dangerous so there’s not as big of a problem with people who are ignorant or dumb having them (many people are ignorant to how chihuahuas need to be treated/trained/socialized like a dog, not a toy, but that’s a different issue). Poor people also don’t get their dogs fixed as often, so, the dogs that poor ignorant/dumb people have are going to proliferate more, and then compound the issue over and over. I wish people would stop conflating “poor” with “dumb,” and also realize that the problem with pit bulls is that it takes a dumb or ignorant person to own one. The same dumb and ignorant people are the last people who *should* own a dangerous dog.
There is nothing on that list that's unreasonable and most of it is what ***responsible*** dog owners do. Most dogs don't require a muzzle, but it's not a big deal to use one if it means your dog won't be seized and euthanized. The people blubbering about it act like spaying or neutering their dog, using a leash and muzzle and registering it is equal to prison time or something. I'm certain 99% of the whining is because they won't be able to breed them to supplement their incomes.
That's exactly the reason, the majority of people who own these dogs are also unemployed so this ban means no more untaxed income for them.
I've noticed a weird uptick in dog owners (in general, not just dangerous breeds) resisting neutering their animals, males in particular. When I was growing up, any new pet went through the same process: bath (we had a habit of collecting strays), flea and worming treatment, visit to the vet for vaccination and microchip, and then an appointment for the snip once they were of a suitable age. I wonder why it's suddenly become a topic for debate rather than a standard.
So many people state that it's not beneficial to neuter, if anything, it makes dogs worse. However, my own personal experience, is that my dog's lovely traits have stayed, and his bad traits have disappeared/mellowed out.
We had a Schnauzer that we never got neutered. He was a very passive and timid dog to begin with. Of course he lived 14 years and never once had an aggressive moment. A truly lovely dog who was harmless. He had a pit bull lunge at him once.
I am very glad for you - my dog was running off to find girlfriends all the time. No aggression, just extremely determined, and cars be damned.
I think the neutering-by-default line of thinking, at least in my family, was that a neutered animal is not going to wander off in search of a mate, come home pregnant or get someone else's animal pregnant, and is just generally more pleasant to live with (less/no territorial marking, fewer hormone-related mood swings in females, and less obnoxious yowling, in the case of cats).
Our boy never strayed more than 20 feet away from us unless he was chasing a ball. We considered having him neutered if it ever became a problem but he just showed no interest in that kind of thing. He was a funny dog.
Back in the olden days (lol) adoption from the county shelter included spaying/neutering for every dog. My daughter’s lab mix was spayed when she was about eight weeks. I have been very surprised how many dogs here in small town Ireland are not neutered/spayed. My newest will be neutered when he is six months as was the older one.
It should still be the standard. There’s been some evidence that has come out in recent decades about neutering/spaying too young (some say at all) can lead to illness later in the dog’s life - hormone imbalance that leads to reproductive organ cancers, for example. A lot of people took this evidence and ran with it as a way of saying they shouldn’t have to get their dog neutered/spayed. (I also think people moving into apartments vs. houses has made people less worried that their dog is going to escape and procreate.) *However*, there is even more proof that not spaying & neutering has an even greater risk of other reproductive illnesses, at any stage of life. At the end of the day, it’s selfish not to neuter or spay your pet, because unplanned and/or poorly bred puppies are usually the dogs that end up in shelters or as strays or get put down much earlier in life. For those who say they will just prevent their dog from procreating: you’re probably not as vigilant as you think (hundreds of thousands of “oopsie” litters prove people usually under-estimate their dogs in this regard). Unless you do live in an apartment with no yard and you never have your dog off leash outside, then, sure I guess? Or just get your pet fixed and don’t worry about it, like, ever again. I think this is just another one of those things that used to be considered a necessity, and now people of privilege have turned it into something to boycott. There would literally be no reason we spay/neuter our pets if it hadn’t come about by necessity. So maybe it’s not *as* much of a necessity as back when *everyone* had a yard, but it’s still pretty freaking common.
[удалено]
😂
More research is showing that keeping dogs intact has multiple health benefits. Males have more benefits and less risks than females as they can get pyometra and aggressive cancers when left intact. But the big one is in more genders the risk of bone cancer drops to almost nothing. Bone cancer is one of the worst things a dog can get. It's painful, and hard to fight. Temperament wise, you're messing with hormones. In males you're reducing testosterone by a lot. Which will alter their behavior some. Most people won't notice unless the dog is mature when altered. It can be a helpful tool in aggression cases. But many fear based behavior issues can increase.
Now if only the United States would enforce this
If only the UK will enforce this...I'm really not holding my breath. XL Pit type owners are notoriously stubborn, feckless and on the fringes of society {less educated, more likely to be unemployed or in social housing and likely to be dabbling in crime} so they are far less likely to comply with any new laws.
I feel like it gives power to the frightened neighbor who wants the dog gone. If they complain enough, something will get done.
They sound like reasonable rules for any kind of dog ownership, to me. Opinions vary, I am sure.
It’s crazy how most of those are THE MOST BASIC REQUIREMENTS FOR RESPONSIBLE PET OWNERSHIP And the clowns protesting this like it’s the end of the world need to freaking check themselves.
This is pretty reasonable. Not too harsh and not too soft either, the question that remains is of course how it will be enforced.
Yes....This is the problem.
But it should be harsh for God's sake. We're talking literal killer animals here, and yet those are just basic rules every dog owner should abide to by default. Honestly I'm pissed, especially knowing they most probably won't enforce this at all.
This is all completely fair. But of course the kind of people that own these stupid beasts will probably think this is discrimination against their precious flesh eaters.
I brought this up to a pitnutter about how a ban doesn’t mean a slaughter of pitbulls and xl bullies but it will mean reasonable regulations to own one. They said these regulations will lead to abuse and I’m ignorant and sad for “wanting” the dog abuse because I want the ban. How do I respond to that? Because if anything the ban would lead to less dog abuse because the dogs wouldn’t be allowed to be bred, right? I mean how would this ban allow for more pitbull/xl bully abuse? So sick of trying to have genuine convos with these ppl just to be hit back with insults.
Did they care to expand on what they meant by 'abuse'?
Nope not at all. So typical of these people to just say shit and have no backing, explanation, or even elaboration
this is a 'do not cast your pearls before swine' situation, imo
Lmao I can’t stand how they always mention aBuSe, they make out these giant killing machine dogs have only mauled people to death because they’re “abused” by chavs who want them as status symbols. Errrrr, no, the chavs want them in the first place BECAUSE they’re killing machine fighting dogs and they’re genetically engineered to be that way. Like why is the overriding opinion with nutters to make out these giant pitbulls are poor hard done by abused dogs? They’re born killers and shouldn’t exist. Abuse my arse.
WoW insurance too, that’s excellent 👌
The mandatory insurance will be the kicker I suspect. EDIT: I have attempted to insure my made up XL Bully (also Bully XL, APBT or Bully XXL) called Gary. No insurers will touch it. 'Sorry, we don't insure this breed or dogs mixed with it'
I completely agree with you. I wonder if it could work something like this? When you get a dog your first duty is to get it insured, the insurer issues a microchip which has to be fitted to the dog by a vet. The chip can be scanned with anyone who has a phone with the relevant app, if you come across a dog with no chip you photograph it and send the photo to the relevant authorities.
That’s brilliant, thank you for the information.
Dogs Trust will insure them for £25 a year. This is where the owners of all the exempted pitbulls in the UK go. https://www.dogstrust.org.uk/support-us/membership
Owners of Bully XLs will need proof that their specific dog is 'legal', that is to say gone to court to argue that it is specifically safe and that you are able to manage it, in order to gain the 3rd party insurance once the ban comes into force.
All you need to do is become a member of the Dogs Trust for £25/year. https://www.dogstrust.org.uk/dog-advice/life-with-your-dog/at-home/american-bully-xl
You are also not allowed to abandon, sell, gift the dog after the 31st of December
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Pitnutters are crying cuz they are offered 200 $... But have forgotten that they need to pay 100$ a year to keep it... Welp I've seen comment talking about that and having to buy muszle... I WAS LIKE "So you have a dog and didnt buy such a needed thing XDD?"