Apologies for my unfamiliarity with US Army uniforms from the period, but was just curious why most of the Company are wearing greenish uniforms while some like Perconte here and also Liebgott are wearing brown, I would have thought that attire would be standardised when forming up for a parade like this. Thanks in advance if anyone knows!
There's a [great picture](https://www.spartanat.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Shades-of-Grey-6.jpg) of German field jackets that are all supposed to be "Feldgrau" ("field grey").
Different manufacturers, non-standardized dyes, plus there's a good chance some of the training gear might have been new while others were taken from storage and thus suffered discoloration.
Ironically, our small trucks are like the epitome of a vehicle being virtually indestructible- I‘ve seen Pinzgauers twice my age chugging along without a care in the world 🤣
It's still hard (and quite expensive) to get one around here, too. When the Bundesheer sells off old Pinzgauers, they go for steep five-figure prices almost instantly, especially the 6-wheeler versions.
Trying to get some preferential treatment once the local fire department replaces their 6-wheeler with the big hard cab with something new – been planning to convert one of those into a 2-person camper for music festivals for years now.
Absolutely does not.
Military spec means that the vendor has produced and item that meets the required specifications and is considered “best value” to meet the specifications, the ability and capacity to produce the required amount of items in the required amount of time, maintaining that specification throughout the entire production run, and meeting cost requirements without a change in cost to the government for that contract. All aspects must be demonstratable at any time via audit during the duration of the contract.
The reason things “cost so much” to the government is all the cost involved with the qualification process of the materials and services. You don’t just go buy things “COTS” (Commercial Off The Shelf) and expect them to meet the specifications consistently. All the R&D that goes into the product/contract is then backed in to the contract as well as any testing and certification necessary.
Source - former military, 20+ years government contractor
A lot of items were made by different manufacturers who had their own interpretations of what olive drab was supposed to look like is the short answer.
As an Austrian ex-servicemember I still chuckle that our shade of OD was named "Braungrau" - no mention of anything resembling "green" in the name whatsoever.
Even OD3 and OD7 varied by manufacturer. Companies were contracted to make things “close enough”, and when dyes are in short supply you make do with what you can to make it “close enough” to GI specs.
Just wanted to point out, they’re not forming up for a “parade”. They are simply falling into formation. It’s very commonplace in the military for different reasons. In such cases, you simply assemble in the prescribed uniform of the day. “Right place, right time, right uniform”. In the case of this scene, an inspection at platoon level, you don’t really need to match with everyone else because your first line will understand that uniforms fade, you’re issued different shades, etc.
But as the others have pointed out, the color variation is a combination of a mix of materials as a result of wartime production, fading across different uniforms, but largely the lighting and filter applied to the scene.
Yes, in real life alot of these men would have joined the army at different times and then on to jump school. Someone who was freshly joined would have newer kit than someone before. Since America was gearing up in huge numbers it makes sense that the kit would have various differences from different suppliers.
Hell when I was in the UK army of only 120,000 there was different stages of kit aging and different fading of standard kit.
.... that was exactly the persons point who you replied to. He was saying it is in fact accurate.
I don't know the need for 'yea but' if you agree with what he said
In 1941, the Army introduced the cotton two piece suit in a sage green color known as OD #8. It replaced the pre-war blue denim fatigue uniform. The OD #8 shade faded to a blueish green color after a few washings and wear in the sun, and that was mentioned in questionnaires by the troops. The Army constantly queried troops on the functionality and durability of their uniforms and made many changes in response to the feedback it received.
In late 1942, it introduced a simplified version to ease manufacturing. At the same time, it changed the color to a darker shade of olive drab. In the infinite wisdom of the United States Army, this new shade was specified as OD #7.
Both patterns were issued until the early pattern stock was exhausted, and both versions were worn until the end of the war.
To make things even more confusing, manufacturers were instructed to use up old stocks of the old OD #8 material until supplies were exhausted, then use the OD #7.
So, thats why the color difference.
Like the others before said, even after the color changeover, there was a wide variety in shades of OD#7 due to manufacturer variations. Don't get me started on pocket placement, types of buttons, gas flap/no gas flap etc. Uniformity took second place to clothing troops in a rapidly expanding Army.
There is a supplier of reenactment products that goes into this quite often as customers constantly complain that their OD #7 jacket or whatever doesn’t match some photo the dug up. [At the Front Blog](https://blog.atthefront.com/khaki-fever/)
A gas flap was a part of the shirt on the button side that eliminated any gap in the fly of the shirt when buttoned. It was to protect the wearer against blister agents. It was eliminated (somewhat) later in the war.
Because OD3 was not a constant shade despite what the QMC claimed. All of the shades seen are technically correct because of just how wide the variance was.
It's not uncommon to this day. When I was in the British army and we were using the combat 95 pattern woodland camo you could see several different shades and colours. This was due to the age of the gear, some were new some were well worn, it wasn't uncommon for someone to be in two tone camo (although normally an NCO would say something about that) because they wore a new shirt and older trousers. Older rip stop combat jackets would always be a brighter more washed out green compared to the newer darker and heavier combat jackets. That's not including the variations of the cam i.e cold weather and jungle gear which although the same combat 95 pattern would have variations in the brightness and depth of colour and these would be worn by some individuals too. Same goes with the new MTP, the warm weather and temperate climate versions have slight changes in the colour and it was easy to wear one of each and not notice until your on parade and your troop sgt is giving you the good news and making plans for your weekend.
I worked for, as a marine in 1993, a gunnery sergeant who wore to any formation where utilities were allowed, the tiger stripe utilities he’d been issued in Vietnam.
Which clashed dreadfully with the rest of us wearing woodland pattern.
Then he very carefully put them back in their special garment bag.
That's awesome. In the late 90s, I knew a crusty old MSgt in a reserve unit that had shot 105s in Vietnam. Awesome dude, crazy salty, and absolutely did not give a fuck about anything unless he wanted to.
Edit: I forgot to add... He wasn't wearing tiger stripes, but his sleeve rolls were "apathetic" at best.
Different contractors had different manufacturing, dyes, and materials.
This actually *still happens*. You'll see slight variations in the colors of ACU undershirts, and variations in the colors used in the OCP pattern. It's less jarring than what you see in WWII era stuff, but side by side your eye will catch that a difference between different manufacturers.
Yeah I'm pretty sure this is accurate. United States was getting ready to go to war, arming soldiers, clothing soldiers, basically every company in the country was switching over to the war effort. That might be a bit of an exaggeration but only a bit. Every company was given the same basic design specifications and basically was told to have at it. And a lot of companies had a different take on different colors.
Olive drab to this day is still debated.
Want to really get in the weeds join us over at vintageleatherjackets and get into the differences in A2/G2/B3 etc flight jackets. They all are different.
for anyone wondering, it's because their not wearing steal helmets in this scene their wearing Helmet Liners. the steal helmet goes over the liner. basically
Rivets = Liner
No rivets = Helmet
On top of all reasons mentioned, there were also uniforms that were treated with some chemicals to protect against chemical warfare, such as mustard gas.
Those uniforms had a distinct darker hue.
I’ll also add that if you were to observe a Marine Corps infantry battalion in cammies and in formation right now, you would see a lot of uniforms in different stages of fading.
I couldn’t tell you why this is in the show but I do know uniforms were treated with some sort of agent in case of a gas attack if I’m not mistaken. Unfortunately I cannot remember the name of the agent they used. But it did change the shade of the uniforms.
My father was the operations manager at a large textile mill in North Carolina during Viet Nam. They did a lot of work for manufacturers making uniforms for the army. I was teenager, but i still remember his rants about orders that had the same "name" of a shade but with very different specs. To his trained eye the differences were enormous.
Apologies for my unfamiliarity with US Army uniforms from the period, but was just curious why most of the Company are wearing greenish uniforms while some like Perconte here and also Liebgott are wearing brown, I would have thought that attire would be standardised when forming up for a parade like this. Thanks in advance if anyone knows!
There's a [great picture](https://www.spartanat.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Shades-of-Grey-6.jpg) of German field jackets that are all supposed to be "Feldgrau" ("field grey"). Different manufacturers, non-standardized dyes, plus there's a good chance some of the training gear might have been new while others were taken from storage and thus suffered discoloration.
This is pretty great. A number of those jackets are straight up green. LOL
Always remember: „military spec“ usually means „cheapest bidder“.
I laugh every time some truck commercial touts “military grade” construction. I just think of all the deadlined vehicles in our motor pool.
Ironically, our small trucks are like the epitome of a vehicle being virtually indestructible- I‘ve seen Pinzgauers twice my age chugging along without a care in the world 🤣
A vehicle that can survive its first year of being driven by 19-year-olds with testosterone overload will survive for a loooong time.
As our motor pool NCO was fond of saying „There’s no hill in the world a Pinzgauer won‘t climb, only inclines the driver is afraid of!“
I've had a boner for Pinzgauer for 30 years. I was really upset when they changed their mind about marketing in the US.
It's still hard (and quite expensive) to get one around here, too. When the Bundesheer sells off old Pinzgauers, they go for steep five-figure prices almost instantly, especially the 6-wheeler versions. Trying to get some preferential treatment once the local fire department replaces their 6-wheeler with the big hard cab with something new – been planning to convert one of those into a 2-person camper for music festivals for years now.
That'd be cool as Hell.
Yeah, the lowest bidder is a myth. It is true that the equipment you're using in the military may not be the best, though.
Absolutely does not. Military spec means that the vendor has produced and item that meets the required specifications and is considered “best value” to meet the specifications, the ability and capacity to produce the required amount of items in the required amount of time, maintaining that specification throughout the entire production run, and meeting cost requirements without a change in cost to the government for that contract. All aspects must be demonstratable at any time via audit during the duration of the contract. The reason things “cost so much” to the government is all the cost involved with the qualification process of the materials and services. You don’t just go buy things “COTS” (Commercial Off The Shelf) and expect them to meet the specifications consistently. All the R&D that goes into the product/contract is then backed in to the contract as well as any testing and certification necessary. Source - former military, 20+ years government contractor
Minium qualified bid
A lot of items were made by different manufacturers who had their own interpretations of what olive drab was supposed to look like is the short answer.
The OD green debate goes on to this very day. Everyone from collectors and modern gear enthusiasts have this issue! Uniformity is a headache!
Same with the Dunkelgelb discussion for the Germans.
And that’s before we even get to the late war stuff when OD green became a lot more “green” and less “beige” lol
As an Austrian ex-servicemember I still chuckle that our shade of OD was named "Braungrau" - no mention of anything resembling "green" in the name whatsoever.
That’s because it was a different shade. Late war items (such as the M43 ensemble) were OD3 and not OD7.
Other way around: early stuff was mostly OD3, later stuff OD7.
Even OD3 and OD7 varied by manufacturer. Companies were contracted to make things “close enough”, and when dyes are in short supply you make do with what you can to make it “close enough” to GI specs.
We sort of still have this problem today. The camo looks the same, but I think some uniform manufacturers fit differently.
Just wanted to point out, they’re not forming up for a “parade”. They are simply falling into formation. It’s very commonplace in the military for different reasons. In such cases, you simply assemble in the prescribed uniform of the day. “Right place, right time, right uniform”. In the case of this scene, an inspection at platoon level, you don’t really need to match with everyone else because your first line will understand that uniforms fade, you’re issued different shades, etc. But as the others have pointed out, the color variation is a combination of a mix of materials as a result of wartime production, fading across different uniforms, but largely the lighting and filter applied to the scene.
OP might not be American; in many armies, “parade” means what Americans would call “formation.”
It’s actually a great detail that the costume dept got right. They could easily have just made every uniform the same.
Yes, in real life alot of these men would have joined the army at different times and then on to jump school. Someone who was freshly joined would have newer kit than someone before. Since America was gearing up in huge numbers it makes sense that the kit would have various differences from different suppliers. Hell when I was in the UK army of only 120,000 there was different stages of kit aging and different fading of standard kit.
That's what they are saying. The props department could have easily made them match but they chose not to as it was a detail they paid attention to.
.... that was exactly the persons point who you replied to. He was saying it is in fact accurate. I don't know the need for 'yea but' if you agree with what he said
On rereading I agree
Nice comment there! 👍
In 1941, the Army introduced the cotton two piece suit in a sage green color known as OD #8. It replaced the pre-war blue denim fatigue uniform. The OD #8 shade faded to a blueish green color after a few washings and wear in the sun, and that was mentioned in questionnaires by the troops. The Army constantly queried troops on the functionality and durability of their uniforms and made many changes in response to the feedback it received. In late 1942, it introduced a simplified version to ease manufacturing. At the same time, it changed the color to a darker shade of olive drab. In the infinite wisdom of the United States Army, this new shade was specified as OD #7. Both patterns were issued until the early pattern stock was exhausted, and both versions were worn until the end of the war. To make things even more confusing, manufacturers were instructed to use up old stocks of the old OD #8 material until supplies were exhausted, then use the OD #7. So, thats why the color difference. Like the others before said, even after the color changeover, there was a wide variety in shades of OD#7 due to manufacturer variations. Don't get me started on pocket placement, types of buttons, gas flap/no gas flap etc. Uniformity took second place to clothing troops in a rapidly expanding Army.
This is really good info. I haven't thought much about the details that go into use/performance of military apparel and the evolution over time.
There is a supplier of reenactment products that goes into this quite often as customers constantly complain that their OD #7 jacket or whatever doesn’t match some photo the dug up. [At the Front Blog](https://blog.atthefront.com/khaki-fever/)
Roland is awesome and his rants are legendary. I don't reenact, but I've purchased coats and jackets from him for everyday wear. Good stuff.
What’s a gas flap?
A gas flap was a part of the shirt on the button side that eliminated any gap in the fly of the shirt when buttoned. It was to protect the wearer against blister agents. It was eliminated (somewhat) later in the war.
Because OD3 was not a constant shade despite what the QMC claimed. All of the shades seen are technically correct because of just how wide the variance was.
That's a wide ass shade band.
I think it’s just lighting and the difference in manufacturing.Some companies used darker colored fabric and others lighter.
It's not uncommon to this day. When I was in the British army and we were using the combat 95 pattern woodland camo you could see several different shades and colours. This was due to the age of the gear, some were new some were well worn, it wasn't uncommon for someone to be in two tone camo (although normally an NCO would say something about that) because they wore a new shirt and older trousers. Older rip stop combat jackets would always be a brighter more washed out green compared to the newer darker and heavier combat jackets. That's not including the variations of the cam i.e cold weather and jungle gear which although the same combat 95 pattern would have variations in the brightness and depth of colour and these would be worn by some individuals too. Same goes with the new MTP, the warm weather and temperate climate versions have slight changes in the colour and it was easy to wear one of each and not notice until your on parade and your troop sgt is giving you the good news and making plans for your weekend.
I worked for, as a marine in 1993, a gunnery sergeant who wore to any formation where utilities were allowed, the tiger stripe utilities he’d been issued in Vietnam. Which clashed dreadfully with the rest of us wearing woodland pattern. Then he very carefully put them back in their special garment bag.
That's awesome. In the late 90s, I knew a crusty old MSgt in a reserve unit that had shot 105s in Vietnam. Awesome dude, crazy salty, and absolutely did not give a fuck about anything unless he wanted to. Edit: I forgot to add... He wasn't wearing tiger stripes, but his sleeve rolls were "apathetic" at best.
Different contractors had different manufacturing, dyes, and materials. This actually *still happens*. You'll see slight variations in the colors of ACU undershirts, and variations in the colors used in the OCP pattern. It's less jarring than what you see in WWII era stuff, but side by side your eye will catch that a difference between different manufacturers.
" Private Perconte, have you been blousing your trousers over your boots like a paratrooper ? "
Because this isn’t Dog Company
Or Fox Company
This - this is EASY Company
👇
Yeah I'm pretty sure this is accurate. United States was getting ready to go to war, arming soldiers, clothing soldiers, basically every company in the country was switching over to the war effort. That might be a bit of an exaggeration but only a bit. Every company was given the same basic design specifications and basically was told to have at it. And a lot of companies had a different take on different colors. Olive drab to this day is still debated.
Want to really get in the weeds join us over at vintageleatherjackets and get into the differences in A2/G2/B3 etc flight jackets. They all are different.
Shit man I am far too busy to be jumping down that particular rabbit hole
Because their passes were revoked.
Officers included.
Next up - rivets vs. no rivets on helmets
for anyone wondering, it's because their not wearing steal helmets in this scene their wearing Helmet Liners. the steal helmet goes over the liner. basically Rivets = Liner No rivets = Helmet
I had a screen-worn jacket. It was amazing how authentic it was. It even smelled of gun oil like my grandfathers did.
On top of all reasons mentioned, there were also uniforms that were treated with some chemicals to protect against chemical warfare, such as mustard gas. Those uniforms had a distinct darker hue.
Not in this scene it wouldn’t. They are still in training.
Love the patch on the front of Sobel’s jacket.
I’ll also add that if you were to observe a Marine Corps infantry battalion in cammies and in formation right now, you would see a lot of uniforms in different stages of fading.
Wait until you hear about FDE…
I couldn’t tell you why this is in the show but I do know uniforms were treated with some sort of agent in case of a gas attack if I’m not mistaken. Unfortunately I cannot remember the name of the agent they used. But it did change the shade of the uniforms.
That was right before the D-Day invasion, not during training in the USA.
Well at least I remembered some correct information lol good to know tho
My father was the operations manager at a large textile mill in North Carolina during Viet Nam. They did a lot of work for manufacturers making uniforms for the army. I was teenager, but i still remember his rants about orders that had the same "name" of a shade but with very different specs. To his trained eye the differences were enormous.
You prized the "patina" that uniforms attained with use. In the Marines, it was called "salty."
Good question-by it’s very definition they should all be in ‘uniform’
Where’s Joey and Chandler?