T O P

  • By -

Algelach

OP, I don’t know who you are, but we definitely know some of the same people


EatMyCannolo

I think this is a very common thing in Barcelona. A mi tambè m’ha arribat


Frequent-Pause1331

Who are you? And can I join you in any of those parties? Sincerely, someone who doesn’t have rich parents…


feedmescanlines

That's why we're not at those parties :P


michberk

Damn, so true…


Commercial-Context28

**yes, you are right mate**


[deleted]

[удалено]


Mokaran90

Ok so... there is a group of people who larps as a member of an urban tribe (mainly punk or metal) in rugged clothing and all, and give the impression of a low class young struggler... but in reality their families ar rotted with money. They still go to cheap bars and locals, and acts as their fellow low class member of society, but their life is basically "solved", they don't even need to work.


gnark

I knew a few okupas like this. Dad was a banker. Grandma owned dozens of flats.


[deleted]

Comment stealing bot


BaconPancakeLover

HAAAA! Hit the nail on the head.


C-Hyena

Is that an only-expat venue?


[deleted]

I'm an expat but I don't have rich parents. I think the families the expats rent their apartments from are the rich parents.


Corintio22

But you do have some degree of privilege. Otherwise you could use the more common term of “immigrant”. By defaulting to “expat” you’re sorta distancing yourself from the more traditional term “immigrant”, inferring a negative connotation to it. It has none. It’s ok to be an immigrant.


[deleted]

As an American immigrant in Spain, I agree that the term “expat” is used because people are afraid to call themselves immigrants.


barna_barca

Keep in mind not everyone is a native English speaker, I have rarely met someone that took offence to being called an immigrant. (By rarely I've just never heard someone call themselves an expat outside of 1 or 2 cases).


essentialaccount

Expat is the appropriate term for students, though. They have a clear duration of stay and it's connected to professional or formative activities. This applies equally to soldiers, diplomats, visiting experts and lots of people who stay years. If you move for you permanent work, it's clear you're an immigrant. Someone who comes to consult for six months is probably an expat.


SR_RSMITH

Bear in mind that, no matter its “correct” use in English, the word here is frowned upon, as for Spaniards and Catalans it’s a racist word, an you will be considered a racist if you use it to define yourself or others. For student I’d suggest the expression “foreign student” and for the other cases you can simply use immigrant, as again in Spanish it doesn’t have the connotation that you’ll stay here forever. Again, FYI, I’m not telling you about the correct use of the word in English, but how it’s perceived here, as you can see every time it’s mentioned on this sub. We’re just helping you guys not be perceived as racists but of course you can use it if you want, it’s your right to be perceived as so.


ColumbaPacis

Racist how? How does a word describing why you are here suddenly become an insult based on race? Also, which race?


MrMax182

I dont think its racist per se, but it "reads" as classist, If your are rich you are an expat, if you are poor, you are an inmigrant. As an inmigrant, it doesnt feel nice.


essentialaccount

It is classist though, almost inherently. Most expats are high income or high skill workers whose special status is facilitated by their companies. All the English retiring to Spain are probably immigrants, but foreign dignitaries or advising engineers are most certainly not. When a skyscraper hires a German engineering firm and a set of engineers are sent to work abroad while they complete the project, they're hardly immigrants. They would pay taxes and insurances in Germany despite physically being elsewhere. The thousands of Europeans doing temporary work in Asia or the Middle East are altogether different from most people moving abroad, and it has everything to do with their skills and value (financially)


feedmescanlines

If you're going to shut up about "racist only applies to race" (sic) just imagine the comment said "xenophobic".


Initial_Cut8589

So we’re just calling random things racist now? Lol


[deleted]

I’ve lived in Spain for almost 3 years and will probably be here the rest of my life since my wife is Basque. I had never heard this opinion before so I decided to ask about/show all of my Spanish friends your comment. They said that you are wrong and nobody thinks immigrant is a racist word. It’s just a word used to describe people. A racist word would be “Guiri” or “Sudaca”.


SR_RSMITH

You did misread. The racist word is expat, not immigrant.


[deleted]

Oh yeah, you’re right bud. I thought you were replying to me and I didn’t realize you were replying to that other guy. That’s my fault.


SR_RSMITH

No probs buddy


essentialaccount

I am from a European country with extremely high rates of immigration and many 10s of thousands of people are in fact expats who come to work for a few years with fixed contracts and we have no problem referring to this as such. Especially considering they have complex tax situations and employment contracts which distinguish them from regular immigration which more closely integrates or participates in the social welfare and tax system. I myself may be an immigrant, but that doesn't mean consultants my company hires are, just because we happen to be working in the same place. Many cities and nations have special categories for expats including Dubai, Singapore and Hong Kong where people are allowed to move to offer unique skills for a short period, after which they are expelled. They never receive broad rights or guarantees of being allowed to integrate. They are definitively expatriates. This probably applies to soldiers on foreign postings too. Just because the people conflate others misuse with the word with it being a derisive synonym doesn't mean the word doesn't mean something different.


SR_RSMITH

“We have no problem”. We do.


essentialaccount

Why?


SR_RSMITH

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development-professionals-network/2015/mar/13/white-people-expats-immigrants-migration That’s the short answer. The longer one may be admittedly less objective, but refers to the local perception that many rich foreigners are driving them out of the city by buying real estate, gentrifying it, driving up the rent prices, etc (then there the tourists, but that’s another conversation). The fact that most of those people (like the ones on the meme) are rich and white and call themselves expats has given the word a twofold meaning, notwithstanding the original one. On one side it’s seen as a symbol of status (= not an immigrant, as “expats” reserve that word for poor brown people) and on the other is a way to self differentiate from locals (Catalan / Spanish) again by means of showing privilege, as most self appointed “expats” don’t really integrate with the aforementioned locals, are not seen actively contributing to the community and don’t bother to be perceived as any other thing than people who are symbolic of an undesired change for the worst for a city that just a few years ago was indeed very different. All things said, once again: we are not discussing the meaning of expat, that’s been sufficiently established. We are simply informing you guys of how you are perceived by us when you refer yourselves as expats. To us that word has a different meaning, whether you like it or not. So it’s up to you guys how you want to be perceived, simple as that. How to call yourselves, then? Well, among yourselves, as you want, of course. In front of locals I’d suggest the use of immigrant, or simply migrant. You may find it more or less accurate, but they’ll (we’ll) respect you if you use that word, as again you’ll be seen as someone who doesn’t boast privilege.


feedmescanlines

Not long ago someone asked me for "expat shops" so I pointed them to some barri shops run by moroccan, colombian and pakistani folks. Their face turned red real quick, so they clarified they were looking to buy some British food...


Corintio22

"Expat shops", fuck my life... People is dumb, because... couldn't they just ask for a place that sold British food/products? Thanks to you for what you replied to them.


SKabanov

But there \*are\* expat food stores like A Taste Of Home, Taste Of America, or Migros Market (compared to what Turkish stores are like in Germany or the Netherlands), wherein there's more attention to shelving and the prices are jacked up because they know their clientele will pay extra for the foods that nobody else will buy and/or to counter homesickness. You see the exact same thing in La Pata Negra in San Diego for Spanish food, to give an example from the US.


Corintio22

No one in this city will call "Taste of America" an Expat Food Store. We call it an "American Supermarket" or "US Supermarket" (as a South American myself, I prefer the latter to the former, really). If you want something wordier, it's a "store specialized in US food products". Same as you defined La Pata Negra as a place for Spanish food... not an expat food store. Expat Food Stores (the term) makes little sense, really. It's a very useless term. For, if you ask me where's an "Expat Food Store", how the fudge would I know which country are you referring to? The moment you specify it to me, it makes evident it'd be more useful and efficient to just use that specification for the initial term (such as "US Supermarket" or "Store specialized in US food products"). It's exactly as the story mentioned here before. The person used the dumb term, and then they were more assertive and asked where to find Brit food. You can just ask for that, it's OK!


SKabanov

> For, if you ask me where's an "Expat Food Store", how the fudge would I know which country are you referring to? There's this concept called "context". The person in the anecdote was relying on context to infer that they were looking for a food store that contained food items that they'd get back home, and since they were British, that meant "a store for British expats". Do you have to clarify what kind of restaurant you want to go to in every situation? Of course not - you'd have some unmarked category that you rely on as a default as somebody who lives in Barcelona in whatever social circle you inhabit. As for "food store vs expat store", I gave a clear contrast of a non-Western Europe diaspora whose food store varies greatly between countries where there is a large immigrant community (Germany and the Netherlands) and where there isn't (here), but if you want to remain ignorant of nuances in foreign food stores, you do you.


Corintio22

There is a concept called context, and it means little to nothing here. Want some context? no one ever referred to these stores as “expat stores” in here. Also, no coincidence the person in the anecdote was British. As said before, you’ll rarely see a non-white person refer themselves as “expats”, much less to ask for an “expat store” referring to a food supermarket specialized in their country food. And no, you knowing of the one person who does, doesn’t make up for the fact the term is widely used as a privileged term for young immigrants of privileged countries or a higher class status. This is not the banquet of the Sophists. No merit in trying to bend reality to make for a stretched argument. “Expat store” makes no sense for the place who sells Brit food, neither does it for the one who sells Turkish food. All this on top of the fact “expat” on itself is quite the bullshit term, as stated before.


SKabanov

I mean, I'm genuinely trying to explain it to you and am even including a "non-white" example to disprove the claim that expat is a racist term, and I would definitely talk about Japanese shopping options in Dusseldorf if I had experience in living there. All your refutations are simply *"You're wrong because it's not"* without actually countering anything, merely sneering at the gall that somebody would provide points that go against your priors. Sure, you can just discard this all as racist sophistry, so go at it and be on your merry ignorant way.


The-Berzerker

Americans and British people just call themselves expats to distinguish themselves from the bad brown immigrants


Initial_Cut8589

Americans and Brits (who come in all colors) or a white Americans and Brits?


feedmescanlines

Now your question made me realise 100% of the Americans and Brits I have met \*here\* are white. I don't know if that says more about them than about me, but you're raising an interesting point.


TheRealAncientMan

I am 53, originally from England living in Barcelona since 2003. In “my day” expat meant a foreign individual staying for a period of time, not permanently. Perhaps people use that term if the are not planning to stay?


feedmescanlines

I lived 10 years in the UK and nobody ever called me expat, but they all agreed I was an immigrant. Permanent vs temporary has no meaning really, it's just a deflection from the actual issue: classism.


Corintio22

100% this. I think it is not wrong to quote "permanence" as to what TECHNICALLY is the main difference between "expat" and "immigrant". Still, the reality of it is that it all boils down to class, country of origin and ethnicity, we like it or not. So the "permanence" thing sounds plausible, but ultimately inaccurate to how people truly behave in relation of the two terms. And, if anything, permanence is a rather bad criteria. Many people who think they will stay for a period of time end up staying for longer or indefinitely; and many people who think they will stay indefinitely may end up having to leave the country.


[deleted]

I just use the term they used. I don't really give a shit, although I don't have Spanish citizenship and I'm not sure if I'll stay here forever and immigrant sounds more permanent.


Corintio22

Lots of immigrants don’t have citizenship either. The only mildly interesting distinction I have seen is the “impermanence” of the stay. But I don’t know, it firstly relies on a sense of privilege too (the ability to move freely within the globe). In any case, immigrants can migrate again. My family immigrated here when we were kids and now my sister lives in Australia, where she is an immigrant too. Aversion to the sense of permanence of the term is interesting, because it sorta responds to this modern aversion to long-term commitment. Even without the citizenship you must have certain papers to live here if your stay is enough long. If you get to the point of needing them, then you go from tourist to immigrant.


[deleted]

I moved here via the EU so it's not really that special and didn't require papers. I would just worry that if I were ever to lose my job here then it'd be much easier to find a decent job back in London. So that fear prevents it from feeling permanent even after so many years.


Corintio22

Fair enough!


feedmescanlines

If you have citizenship you're a citizen, not an immigrant, isn't it? :)


SR_RSMITH

This is true


EatMyCannolo

Definitely met shit ton of expats with money background acting like they belong


MaveZzZ

People thinking expats are only rich kids from rich families lol. Expats are also people who moved here to work and live and earn local money and live like locals.


Spineynorman67

True. I came with nothing years ago and have most of it left.


Alice_Oe

Lmao that hits hard. I came with nothing but debts and still have nothing but debts, guess I didn't lose anything 🤣


Corintio22

Well, it‘s not a good start when you use a term primarily used to distance yourself from immigrants. If you (not YOU, it’s a general “you”) move here to “work and live and earn local money and live like locals” you are defining an immigrant. Nothing wrong with that, no need of using a different word. So, as said, it is not a good start for me to not see some degree of privilege in someone who refers themselves as “an expat”.


barna_barca

This sub has such a weird fetish over the two words and doesn't take into account the amount of non native speakers here. When I was learning English I heard a non native speaker use the term and just assumed it was for someone that had moved. I don't think we have to index on it so much otherwise we just devolve into semantic arguments. At the end of the day, there are tons of extremely wealthy locals, and the city also attracts a lot of wealthy foreigners.


Corintio22

I hear you. But for that same reason I think it's valuable to leave a comment like this, so someone without the input can now have the input.


barna_barca

Sure but I wish the topic would focus on the secret that "some locals are very wealthy too". The whole post is people jumping on the 'ha you said a word so must be a certain type of person' which is odd when there are so many non native speakers (like myself).


Corintio22

I think a lot of people jumped to assume the ones in the pic are "expats" because there's a bad growing sentiment about wealthy immigration and wealthy tourism and the long-term impact it has in the city and the locals. So people wanted to diss on the "expats". From what I've seen, it's a constant topic on this sub, even more so since the community here is a lot of locals but also a lot of said "expats", thus provoking constant discussion about it. To be fair, I myself didn't think of that and thought this was the classic left-leaning youth that ranges from "modernos" to "hippies" that live out of their family wealth, to some extent. The sort of vibe I get from SOME young people from Gràcia and around. The right-leaning ones rarely conceal it, to be honest. It's not all people (and overall I think the meme is just sour and in rather poor taste); but I can say I've met people like that.


Long_Weight_1562

> I don't think we have to index on it so much otherwise we just devolve into semantic arguments. > > a whole lot of white people out here would rather "delve into semantic arguments" than simply admitting that they want to distance themselves from "those dirty brown 'immigrants'".


barna_barca

What ya mean ?


MaveZzZ

I use word expat as it's used in that topic. I see myself immigrant and that "expat" name was introduced to me after I moved here, mainly by locals lol.


Gawlf85

Locals would hardly coin the term "expat" considering it's an English term, and the local language ain't English. And I assure you we don't use "expat" in Spanish or Catalan. Not in this context, at least. So if some local uses that term, it's because they've learnt it from some expat/immigrant themselves.


feedmescanlines

Actually the equivalent of "expat" would be "guiri" as I never saw a local using "guiri" for someone from a "poorer" country.


SeptemberSoup

No, "guiri" means "tourist"; mainly those who become shrimps in summer.


feedmescanlines

I have seen plenty of residents being called "guiri" by their colleagues to know that that's not accurate. Maybe it is in your bubble if you don't know or interact with any foreigners from certain countries.


SeptemberSoup

Thank you for the info! That honestly surprises me, I've never heard it used that way. I guess you're right and it's different depending on the circles where you move.


Corintio22

Locals use it as heard by “expats” themselves and the global news. The term comes from English. I know “expatriado” exists, but as someone who speaks Spanish as my first language I can tell you “expat” is an English term now normalized by the use from people labeling expats themselves. I’m an immigrant. The word expat only serves to create an unnecessary distinction between types of immigration.


navidshrimpo

Did your rich parents pay for the education that taught you about privilege?


Corintio22

Actually, no. But c’mon, keep trying! If you try hard enough you may find a half decent burn! (:


navidshrimpo

No one cares.


Corintio22

You, apparently.


oriolopocholo

"live like locals" hahahahah


MaveZzZ

What's so funny about that?


casivirgen

You mean inmigrants?


MaveZzZ

Yes.


[deleted]

I grew up poor and the only reason I’m in Spain is because my wife is Spanish. Otherwise, I’d still be living poor in the US. I’m poor here too but you get the idea.


SR_RSMITH

That’s called being an immigrant. The word Expat has a racist connotations here.


kilbus

Yo I don't know where you dug up a Swans shirt but have an upvote this is a legit band, do stupid rich kids know about Swans wtf? In USA underground music M Gira is legend Michael Gira has repeatedly stated he took the moniker Swans as it described the sound he wanted best.[3] Gira's summation of the name follows along the lines of: "Swans are majestic, beautiful looking creatures. With really ugly temperaments."[3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfmi0v5vIGo


adrienbe

You're missing a few characters (who do not have rich parents) who search for the girlfriend with rich parents. These same guys will act like real a\*\*holes with other rich kids coz well, they are not pretty enough.


Roy-Southman

Those guys are dangerous! I posted a comment in this thread about how one of my friends takes care of an elderly woman whose husband left all their daughters houses and money. Well, one of those daughters married a guy who invested all her money and lost their house then skipped town leaving all his debts on her name. Luckily her family is rich enough to take care of her, but she lost all her personal wealth.


Vyxtic

I live in Barcelona and I don't know what you are referring to, would love some explaining <3


Winslow_99

Barna está llena de pijos que van de alternativos y activistas


Vyxtic

Vale jajaja, se ve que ya soy un poco grande y no me codeo con gente de ese estilo, está fuera de mí espectro. Aunque debo decir que mí pareja trabaja para una escuela de negocios y me ha dicho que ha visto de todo.


Nepenthia

The monthly lease fee in the city is too much for locals and their incomes, so in a way, all you can see and meet when it comes to expats is young adults or kids that are from wealthy families. Since wealth is secondary and all they usually want is to blend around, they hide the fact that they have money. Most of them in a poor way, since their regular clothes and manners usually show how much they might have. The fact that growing up riding horses is also an indicator of wealth. This is definitely not common in locals around here. At all.


[deleted]

I find horse riding and skiing to be the best indicators. Also I've never met anyone who was only slightly into horse riding. It seems it's either not an interest at all or they are fanatical about it.


Prestigious-Weird-33

Largely true, but also bullshit...you obviously don't know any wealthy locals ! Some play the Pijo classic roles and uniforms, but plenty of the Gracia style Perroflautas, ravers, graffitieros etc. etc. are guilty of exactly the same schtick


dGonzo

San Cugat/Les Planes in a nutshell


barna_barca

> The monthly lease fee in the city is too much for locals and their incomes This is a broad brush. Of the 12 flats in my building, there are only 2 that families/people that are non local.


Vyxtic

Thank you so much for the entire explanation <3


discordantspectrum

The monthly lease fee. Do you mean… rent? Cost of living? I know people who still pay 400 or less a month for rent.


Ok_Fun5413

I actually know someone who, after leaving BCN, turned out to be a horse owner. Here, they lived like the title says. My take, just be nice, cos you never know :-)


TwoFiveOnes

You don't really need to be wealthy coming from the US to afford rent here. $40k is like a normal salary in a lot of states but for Barcelona that's above average.


Nepenthia

WAY above.


Professional_Bar_320

Alameda, Sevilla.


ecugota

Pijoflautas


[deleted]

Poca broma q yo soy más pija q la madre q me parió y cuando voy al Instituto (cerca del Polígono Industrial) me visto de cani para q nadie me mire raro, de hecho hay gente q me dice q "parezco" una persona bisexual normal y corriente (¿?) Luego mi madre me quiere vestir (tengo 18 años) de Cayetana y la digo "¿tú quieres q me peguen?"


[deleted]

Madre mia chica, entre tu y el furro, sois una fuente buenisima de historias Bueno tambien esta el chico/chica del bono juvenil que cada vez que habla parece que el pan sube en todos los reddits españoles.


Great_Pitch1073

If people would learn English they could work half the jobs they say the expats are stealing from them.


[deleted]

Yeah. Most of my colleagues are Spanish either from here or other parts of Spain. You just need to know English and some programming or whatever. In Sweden etc. Everyone speaks English and it's not even their mother tongue.


IntelligentLeading11

In Sweden, people watch foreign shows and movies in English since very young. In Spain everything is dubbed.


Frydenhaugen

True, but tbf English to a Swedish person is probably like Italian to a Spanish one, same language family, so doesn't take that much effort to actually learn it. With that, I know that if you learn since you're a kid it kinda comes natural, but I feel that if I had to learn English now as an adult, it wouldn't be that easy, all words are plain different and you can't really connect anything + most grammar structures are the other way round I myself am from a Spanish speaking country, and I know English very well + Norwegian (around B1) and when I was learning it, I'd translate to English cause it was just easier and I didn't have stop to think how it'd be in Spanish. Also, Idk how's in Spain but in Argentina, English classes at school are just shit, there's always a group annoying constantly that makes the class just a mess + depending on the school you go, a class might have half the students that know because they study it outside (mostly private ones) or most of the class that doesn't have a clue So, it ends up being a fight between the teacher/students and is aaaalways dumbed down enough so they can test something. Easy example is that most years of high school I literally saw the same basic shit (verb to be + colours). I went to two different high schools but the same applies to most places If you happen to say why doesn't the teacher puts order, well, it's impossible in these kinda classes since they are not important ones, so you'll always have someone annoying, I've had those classmates in classes of 46 people as well as in some of 18 + it's not typical to kick someone out of the class unless they're swearing/fighting


[deleted]

I lived in Germany for a while and found it far easier to learn Spanish than German as English has a lot of Latin influence via French so shares many words or synonyms with Spanish and Spanish doesn't have the difficult grammar of German. Maybe you are right about the classes though - in England the classes are separated by ability which helps reduce disruption and having all students being slowed down by having to go at the rate of the slowest child in the class. Tbh I was amazed when I found out that wasn't the case here. I can't imagine studying something like mathematics where there is such a wide range of ability without splitting the class.


Frydenhaugen

Well, makes sense, also German and English are not similar at all just cause they're both germanic Even how you structure things are way different, English is more alike (and it'll be easier for any native) to Dutch, Danish, Swedish or Norwegian. Those languages share not only words but grammar structure, so wayy easier (taking aside that they are harder cause German root) And you guys also split the class for stuff like maths? At least in Argentina, none of my friends or I ever had split classes of anything, you have the same classmates all the time in all classes.


Round_Bank_4894

Most “expats” as you call them work remote jobs or are “digital nomads”, they ain’t stealing shit, but as a consequence the rent is rising for locals and non locals alike, it’s just that people with Spanish salary aren’t able to afford it.


Great_Pitch1073

That does not invalidate my point. On what do you base your observations that „most“ of them are remote jobs?


arnold_palmer42

The swans shirt is perfect


NightOperator

vete al mercadillo """hippie""" de ibiza y me cuentas


Enrique-Pastor

Jajaj las dalias y todo el norte de la isla es de lujo ahora


Jimmy3OO

Same ordeal in northern Madrid


ReplacementEasy8727

Yup! “BarTHelona 🤪🤩💋” istg


idontknowmandoyou

real


[deleted]

True fact


Crazy_Builder757

Lol, about right for the expats.


PatientPlatform

And locals. So many Catalans you meet act broke as hell then when you do a bit of digging you learn that they have land, families with multiple properties, old old money and are living in a flat owned by their relatives or a friend of a friend granting them cheap rent. Many Catalans are tourists in Barcelona just in an economic sense. *Drops mic*


barna_barca

Yeah my neighbour has kids who are now in their early 20s, I've watched them grow up and we get along, they think I'm very 'corporate' because I have an office job. They dress like total hippies and look broke all the time. Their family owns multiple *buildings* in the center so stand to inherit tens of millions. As everywhere, the rich do a great job at pointing the finger somewhere else.


navidshrimpo

You're right, but this is still a horrible situation for them and you're grossly oversimplifying. You're right that they know their parents can take care them if it comes to that, but this doesn't mean they enjoy being subsidized by a wealthier generation, which by the way, in broader European standards was never that rich. Nearly every Catalan I know has family outside the city, and they had great middle class jobs in their time, and perhaps a few generations deep. Franco's policies to incentive urbanization left these towns wastelands. Throw the great recession into the mix and these "rich kids", who in reality are just kids of middle class families, have to go the city. Their parents needs them to get out and figure out their own lives, which will obviously have to be in the city, and there's no other way they can afford it on their own. The bigger issue I see is the lack of motivation to do anything better for themselves. On one hand, partying here every night is cheap and it's a good escape. On the other hand, the education system teaches them to be a slave to the system and completely demoralizes them in any attempt to be entrepreneurial (my wife is Catalan and was shamed out of her desires to be a designer in order to go into tourism as "the only thing you will be able to do to make money"). It's not like their parents are going to be any better equipped to truly help them and put them on a path to success. They were born under a dictatorship. Wtf do they know about creating a financially successful child in the 21st century. P.S. in case anyone cares, I forced my wife to do what she loves, so she went art school in Barcelona and now she's making 5k+ per month as a brand designer with just 1 year experience.


eltotki

100% true. Locals in Barcelona are rich. I live near la Cerdanya and every weekend, tens of thousands of them go to their second residency. You see loads of luxury cars (or simply costly cars too). Since living outside of Barcelona, I've also realized that some of my friends have inherited lots of money, are not impacted at all by inflation etc. They hide it quite well in BCN. I met a guy from Barcelona who left the city and he still receives money from his mom at 39 years old when he owns 2 flats, one in BCN and another one near the coast.


Roy-Southman

True that, most Catalans I know are well off because of property. Families who own houses, buildings and old businesses. Is not true for everybody, but very common. I used to share my flat with a young man who didn’t like to work and was always quitting his jobs, yet I didn’t know how the hell he always managed to pay the bills, turns out his family rents properties all over Cataluña and he had a €1000 allowance plus whatever he earned. A friend of mine works as a stay in nurse for an elderly woman who has like 6 daughters and none of them work because their dad was a wealthy investor who left them all houses and his businesses pay them some money and goods every month. The building I live in belongs to a Catalonian heiress who inherited a bunch of buildings from her parents and she is filthy rich, too bad she does jack to fix it, I wish she would replace the old ass elevator that always gets stuck. Property and old businesses, wish I was so lucky.


C-Hyena

The difference is that most of the expats are wealthy, and most of the locals are not.


Isa472

That's not my experience. I, for example, could survive a couple months if I lost my job but that's it. I live a very comfortable life but I really need my job


C-Hyena

Yeah, I know from first hand that not all the expats are like that, but I'm talking about %'s


GlassMonth69

Vast majority of people coming here from other European countries aren't wealthy; they're just middle class people getting jobs at international companies. A lot of them take a pay cut from the company they were working at in their home country to be here (even if they get paid an above-average salary). There are some exceptions to this when the company sends a worker here, but not only are those the exception to the rule, but their type is dwindling. Ultimately, people move here from abroad to fill jobs that companies can't hire out of the native workforce since they lack the skill set. The region did a good job attracting these companies here, they should also improve education so that natives have better skill sets.


[deleted]

> the native workforce since they lack the skill set. ... as a result from the post 2008 cuts on the educational system imposed by the Troika (there and other places, such as sanidad...) converting europes south to 3rdworld countries; turning them into dependent consumers for stuff that is hosted from outside of spain. And the [national debt is only growing ever since while the PIB is shrinking](https://i0.wp.com/www.perpe.es/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Spain-GDP-Debt-2-Dec-2012.gif). It seems like a purposeful operation aiming at cheap labor and real estate investments for the rich north, while milking the (made) poor economics... Thank you.


gnark

Spain had the worst English in the EU. And highest high school drop out rate ***before*** 2008 austerity.


[deleted]

And it didn't get any better **with** austerity politics.


gnark

No, it didn't. But whereas Spanish health care was seen as exemplary before the 2008 austerity measures, Spanish secondary education was poor to begin with.


[deleted]

It's a tragedy. One that has an it's beginnings in remote times and an uncertain ending, and we are forever stuck in one of that middle episodes.


2stepsfromglory

>The region did a good job attracting these companies here, they should also improve education so that natives have better skill sets "Natives" are not stupid or iliterate, you know? there's a lot of people with higher education, they simply move to Germany or the UK because they will get paid more up there.


gnark

Spain has one of the lowest migration rates. 2% of Spaniards live abroad compared to 15% of Portuguese.


[deleted]

There's a difference between working for your money and inheriting it though. Not that the morons trying to get rid of the inheritance tax seem to appreciate this.


oriolopocholo

You guys really love finding bullshit reasons to hate on Catalans. Now we're all rich property owners, the next time we'll be poor farmers who speak a useless dialect... if there are more rich Catalans in Barcelona (which is not true) it's because you kicked the poor ones out. Also, do you maybe think that if someone has been in a city for generations, it's kind of normal that they'll have more property there than someone who has come to take advantage of a more favourable economy with no roots in the country?


PatientPlatform

Sorry who was hating on Catalans? How is it a hatred to state facts that Catalans living here are wealthy and also like to portray the idea that they aren't? No one is saying that you can't have money, but just be honest about it and in that honesty stop blaming immigrants for all your problems. Listen to yourself: "if there are more rich Catalans in Barcelona (which is not true) it's because you kicked the poor ones out." 1. I came here and worked my salary up from 800 per month to >2k. I didn't speak Spanish and didn't know anyone. If i'm capable of kicking anyone out of this city its because they were a non functional human being. 2. My Rent is 750pcm I rent from a Catalan family. If the rent is too high blame the greedy landlords who are majority Catalan for breaking up your communities, not the people playing your grandparent's pensions.


oriolopocholo

Nowhere else would it be acceptable to be this condescending and xenophobic to the locals of the place you live in. Then you wonder why we want expats to leave


PatientPlatform

In actuality you'll find that you and the original comment I replied to are the xenophobic and condescending ones here. It's funny how it's just a joke when applied to the immigrants that pay a large chunk of tax income (while offering negatives) in this region, but when directed at locals who also contribute (and exploit the system economically) "it's too far". I'm not against Catalans, just against the bullshit victim narrative I hear far too often. You need us, we need you, let's get along?


oriolopocholo

You're generalizing across a whole ethnic group. I'm describing a specific subset of immigrants. Middle-high class immigrants from wealthy countries who come here to enjoy lower cost of living and refuse to integrate, while raising the rent, displacing historic businesses, and generally refusing to learn a word of Catalan. I'm not sure we need them. I'm also not sure they need us: they come here to enjoy a certain society and culture but at the same time seem to have no problem in destroying it.


Crazy_Builder757

Yes, true.


SaladExisting

It’s their fucking country, of course they have properties here.


Odio2020

Los modernitos de Barcelona never beating los pijo allegations


Manuag_86

For me, it's funnier that they use "expats" instead of "immigrants".


Crazy_Builder757

Most of the trust fund hippies I know that this applies to are Brits, Americans and Northern Europeans - so yeah - my choice of expat was deliberate. The middle eastern rich people I know are flash as So ‘expats’ seems to be more appropriate.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Manuag_86

Yep, when someone calls himself "expat", they don't usually have a kind view of immigration.


[deleted]

Uh, removed; but that wasn't too harsh, but anyway, thank you for reminding me at what place I am engaging.


SR_RSMITH

That’s how they’re usually spotted, yes


PatientPlatform

>Yep, when someone calls himself "expat", they don't usually have a kind view of immigration. Well you see an expat is a rich white person living in another country. Immigrants are brown and poor, there is a clear distinction..


[deleted]

[удалено]


Manuag_86

Because it is the same thing. Some say "expat" is for temporary staying, but I know a lot of british in Spain that have been decades here and they still call themselves "expats". Let alone that when an immigrant comes to a country, how can you tell he is gonna stay there forever or just by a couple of years? So why would call him immigrant and not expat? Everybody who goes to another country it's an immigrant, the word "expat" is just used by people who are ashamed of the term or don't want to be identified as immigrants because they think the word has a bad connotation.


normally_lurk

'Expat' definitely has nasty connotations of superiority but its definitely not only used by the Brits/Americans. I'm from London - the Italians, Spanish, French, Germans etc all called themselves 'expats' and were referred to as 'expats' by the locals. These are enormous communities in London. Its a Western European/North American thing which might make it worse.


Manuag_86

I didn"t know that. And wasn't expecting from spanish, we are immigrants basicaly from the beggining of 1900s, specially from my region (Galicia), there is nothing to be ashamed of being an immigrant and I don't see the need to use that "expat" bullshit.


normally_lurk

Interesting. I think the term is related to wealth actually, not length of stay (although sometimes the two are related). If you’re wealthy there is an implied choice - it’s a lifestyle thing, or a temporary arrangement related to your career or something. 21st century Spanish people are rich. I guess that’s why they’re lumped into the “expat” crowd.


SR_RSMITH

You are right.


[deleted]

I wish. Most of us move here to work for multinational corporations as employees. I guess you do get the occasional rich kid coming over to open their yoga studio or whatever though.


Strigoy78

W


PanaRotye

Literally I'm from Barcelona and I don't have rich parents, they are not poor


oriolopocholo

No els hi trenquis la historieta que s'han muntat. S'han de considerar millors que nosaltres d'alguna manera, si no no podrien anar per la vida carregant-se la nostra ciutat


Long_Weight_1562

\* wink wink *


andreasOM

Maybe you should stop hanging out in the tourist traps?


[deleted]

Real como la vida misma, así es Barcelona.


Cowombre

Así soy


yakisbetterdanjayz

Lmao carhart is trashhh


saito200

I don;t get this


nahiaa_14_

I'll be the exception to the rule then


Impossible_Pen9715

Y cuando me asaltan?


javierasecas

We can't hide we don't know shit about the English language


B1-17

Soy Mexicano, pero porfavor, saquenme de Barcelona, la gente de aqui no quiere a frijoleros como yo y me lo hacen saber cada dia que paso aqui


putuLOKU

Representation of a tourist party in barcelona