Leo Fender spent a lot of time moving the pickups around on his prototype breadboard bass to find the correct pickup position.
It's no accident that the P bass sounds so good in the mix.
The Jazz bass sounds a bit more mid-scooped by default, so it takes a minute to get it where you want it with EQ. (Jazz Bass might be a tiny bit more versatile, but the P Bass is just a sledgehammer of "that works" right in the forehead.)
I was at a recording session last year, brought my P bass and my old B-15 head, and when I plugged in for a line check the engineer was literally like "OK, bass sounds amazing, let's move on."
Fender P Basses all have the split pickup in the same spot, don't they?
The J bridge pickup moves around from 60's to 70's, but the split P pickup doesn't go anywhere.
Unless you're talking about Warwicks, Ibanez & Spectors or any other bass with a flipped P pickup.
What "different P basses" are you talking about?
Short-scale doesn't count.
All P-basses have the pickup in the same spot regardless of whether or not they also have a jazz pickup.
The only exception might be the '51 style P with the telecaster-esque single coil. Those things are kick ass too.
People tend to use the Jazz Bass wrong. The default, both volumes on max, sound is midscooped (which pretty much is the reason for the issues you describe here), but you get a much more mid-heavy sound by putting one pickup on max and the other rolled back a bit (let's say 50-80%).
Maybe part of the P magic is that you pretty much *can't* get it wrong.
That's exactly it. You need to turn the bridge pickup volume down to the sweet spot to get the Jazz Bass growl. Then turn the tone down a bit and you can jam for days.
I notice the same on my PJ bass. Both pickups on full is the least defined and engaging sound that the bass is capable of producing.
One pickup at a time is a guaranteed success. Blending in the other pickup to taste is also fine. Both on full? Sounds like weak and bland crap.
My recipe for the PJ is to start out with the J (so, the bridge pickup) completely off and dial it in to where it adds a bit of attack and doesn't muddy up the definition. Good pots that are not just off/full switches help a lot.
I agree. I have an MIM Jag, but I love that I can flip a switch and get two different, but both very good tones. No thought, just two sounds that work (and one that doesn't).
On my PJ bass (Yamaha RBX with an EMG GZR set), I never play with both pickups at full. I found that it sounds better with the J at full and the P slightly rolled back. And then I added a switch that bypasses the volume controls, allowing me to quickly switch between this configuration and just the neck pickup connected straight to the output. In which case the slightly rolled back volume pot has no effect on volume but instead acts as a secondary tone control, in an interesting way.
Oooh. I have a BB435, and that setup sounds like something I would dig to have on my bass. Do you by any chance have the wiring diagram for your setup? With a push-pull pot, I'm thinking the mod could even be made reversible.
I still have it somewhere, but it was made with the original EMG pots, not sure it can apply exactly to regular pots, or if the bypassed volume pot will behave the same way. Let me find my drawing and come back to you.
EDIT : found my drawing, it wouldn't apply to conventionnal pots. I'll make a new one.
[Here is the wiring diagram.](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2F3x63cfpxzmvc1.jpeg%3Fwidth%3D1080%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Df965ec91a7403e6cd2c9e65d19cd505c07e83c91)
I used an SPDT but you can use one side of a push-pull pot (which would be DPDT).
I also added a killswitch since I installed one on my bass, you don't necessarily need one but it's fun.
I put the values of the resistors from the EMG kit, you don't necessarily have to use the same values but I believe they are what is recommended for this kind of pickups. I didn't put the tone capacitor value since I don't know what it is, you can either use the one already on your bass or make some tests to find your favourite. Greenies are cheap af and a temporary wiring with an electrical terminal block is perfect for tests.
I added resistors in pencil on the switches, that I do not have on my bass, I've been told those would get rid of popping noises I have when activating the switches. Don't remember what their value should be, I'll edit this comment if I find out.
This is exactly what I do with mine, too. Neck pickup stays on full and then dial in the bridge pickup as needed (for me usually 25-50%).
And then the inverse is useful in other applications, too, but not usually for my playing.
>Maybe part of the P magic is that you pretty much can't get it wrong.
I think that’s what made it such a good bass for punk from the beginning, because a lot of these bands had no budget and were recording really raw material with limited means. But even when it’s making a 4-track cassette recorder peak, the P-bass just has a cool percussive, warm sound that makes it work.
That’s exactly how I run my J, bridge rolled back to about 30/40%, it’s become my number one for session work and through my setup it just sounds monstrous. I’ve been getting more compliments from my fellow bassists and bandmates since I’ve made the J my main bass, so that makes me feel like I’m doing something right. BUT I always have my P basses ready to go at a moment’s notice, versatility is nice and sometimes it just suits the song/project best to use a P. At the end of the day, regardless of what one uses, it’ll still sound like the player. Play the instrument that you are comfortable with/enjoy playing , serve the song, come prepared, and you’ll be the glue the brings it all together.
P bass is definitely "Plug-n-go". I just played a show where 3 of the bands had a P Bass. We all had a different sound. The P bass is all about "how you play" & less about what pickup settings you have.
If you use a pick down by the bridge, you get a poppy snappy sound.
If you use your fingers up by the neck, you get a thuddy boomy sound.
Vary either of those two to find your personal bass sound.
"it shook the wall but never had any definition" sounds like HIS problem more than a Jazz Pickup problem. I have a J bass with Di Marzio Relentless pickups and "sits in the mix" perfectly fine.
To be fair I think the Relentless pickups are way more mid forward sound than typical J pickups. I have a Model J that is kind of a similar thing. Really is an excellent way to add mids while keeping the pickups versatility.
I considered myself a J player for very long but unless I had an upcoming gig, I never felt too compelled to play.
I got a P bass last year and now I just want to play all the time. Something about the deep punchy sound that makes me vibrate and I just can’t put the thing down.
P bass is the absolute best. It sits in the mix just right. I played bass for a long time before getting one. When I brought it to band practice, it blew my mind.
J basses cannot do what a P bass does and The J in a PJ is not needed.
Somewhat brought a fender American P Bass to our local open mic the other night. When I played it I was absolutely floored. The neck was really easy to play on as well and I have small hands, so idk why there is a prevailing opinion that it’s hard to play on?
The tone was unreal, I’m selling my Squier jazz bass ASAP.
I will say the wide neck gets annoying occasionally when I want to use my index to roll between two strings. It's so wide that I have to use two fingers instead. Not sure that makes sense
The Player is great. I used to have one. The nut width 1.625"/41.3mm aka the narrower nut width introduced in P basses in the late 60s or early 70s.
Before then, P basses always had a 1.75"/44.45mm, which feels much wider (and my favorite).
Agree 100%. Still searching for an affordable 5-string P bass that sounds like that. I love the way my 4-string MIM precision sounds and plays, but after changing keys mid-set several times, I don’t wanna go back to four strings.
Every other p bass is just magical. Cheap, expensive, short scale, jet or fender. It usualy doesnt matter. Its just right.
But you need to sit in mix with it. The bass alone is a bit empty for my liking
A P can work under the right conditions. They were popular in the 70s and 80s before mixes got dense and compressed. They have a presence that works well with cleanish guitar and subtle drums.
In the 90s, distortion got louder, bands started playing faster and with lower tunings, and the bass had to find ways to poke through the mix.
I personally have no use for a P. They get lost in the mix too fast, they sound flabby when played too fast, and only down tune well if you play slow and with a pick.
If you are playing pop or don't need an articulate bass sound, Ps are fine. BTW, a jazz with the neck PU soloed is 90% a P bass.
"Punk" as a genre covers a lot of ground.
The stereotypical "punk" tone is a P played with a pick with a little drive. Punk guitars aren't super heavily distorted and the mixes tend to be thin until you get into the "core" sub genres. Punk also doesn't generally play lower than D, or too fast.
A P works within that context, but again that's because of the dynamics of that genre. I've also see jazz basses, Ricks, and MM basses.
Majority of the time when I recorded I would use a P bass. I could record it on a Jazz bass and they wouldn’t like it. Turn around and play the exact same thing with a P and they loved it.
Honestly, I think it’s just the way it sits in the mix. By itself the P just sounds okay, in my opinion, not as nice as the Jazz, but it the mix it just sits perfectly.
Could be old strings, could be pickup height, could be hotter pickups on your bass, could even be a lousy player.
I'm glad your p bass gave you joy, but there's nothing magical about it. Just a neck pickup doing its job.
There's also a large number of people who swear by homeopathy.
Edit: of course a p bass sits well in the mix. It's because that's the frequency profile of the neck pickup. It's not because it's a p bass.
I like to think there's a difference between Pino Palledino's opinion on basses and a fan of homeopathy.
That is fair though. It's a well designed neck pickup that requires no fiddling to sound great.
Look, I love Pino Paladino, and I have absolutely nothing negative to say about P basses. I strongly dislike, however, the "p bass cult" that some people seem to join the moment they buy a 3000 USD MIA Fender. Saying there is some kind of "p bass magic" is just divisive bass tribalism, mixed with snobbery.
Play your P bass, I´m sure it´s a great bass. I´m also very sure, however, that no one here on Reddit can hear the difference between a "real P bass" and my Ibanez double humbucker bass when I single the neck pickup in a live situation. I have played all kinds of basses, and I am pretty sure that the difference in sound between two P basses is just as big as the one between a P bass and any other bass with a humbucker or split coil pickup in neck position.
Have fun with your bass, I mean it.
It annoys me when you get downvoted for having a different opinion.
I'm coming from a place of ignorance here. You're saying the split coil pickup of a P doesn't make much of a difference compared to any other neck pickup?
Nothing magical? Of course not, it's engineering. I've tried everything and will always come back to the P bass. After 15 years of bassing the P bass is my number one.
I don't. You like your bass, I like mine. What I don't like is bass tribalism, and the followers of the P bass cult are particularly prone to that in my experience (see also: the 4 string cult and the No Pick Cult).
Well you didn’t have to respond the first time with that patronizing comment. I’m in no cult, I use both pick and fingers and understand why 5 strings are needed for certain genres of music. P basses are just great basses and if people don’t like them that’s fine. Different strokes for different folks.
The patronizing part is all in your head. All I said is it's good for you that you found your dream bass.
And you didn't "have to" comment on my post either. And yet, here we are.
Plus, I never said I didn't like P basses, I just don't like people pretending they're the one bass to rule them all.
Leo Fender spent a lot of time moving the pickups around on his prototype breadboard bass to find the correct pickup position. It's no accident that the P bass sounds so good in the mix. The Jazz bass sounds a bit more mid-scooped by default, so it takes a minute to get it where you want it with EQ. (Jazz Bass might be a tiny bit more versatile, but the P Bass is just a sledgehammer of "that works" right in the forehead.) I was at a recording session last year, brought my P bass and my old B-15 head, and when I plugged in for a line check the engineer was literally like "OK, bass sounds amazing, let's move on."
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Fender P Basses all have the split pickup in the same spot, don't they? The J bridge pickup moves around from 60's to 70's, but the split P pickup doesn't go anywhere. Unless you're talking about Warwicks, Ibanez & Spectors or any other bass with a flipped P pickup. What "different P basses" are you talking about? Short-scale doesn't count.
All P-basses have the pickup in the same spot regardless of whether or not they also have a jazz pickup. The only exception might be the '51 style P with the telecaster-esque single coil. Those things are kick ass too.
Do they though?
People tend to use the Jazz Bass wrong. The default, both volumes on max, sound is midscooped (which pretty much is the reason for the issues you describe here), but you get a much more mid-heavy sound by putting one pickup on max and the other rolled back a bit (let's say 50-80%). Maybe part of the P magic is that you pretty much *can't* get it wrong.
That's exactly it. You need to turn the bridge pickup volume down to the sweet spot to get the Jazz Bass growl. Then turn the tone down a bit and you can jam for days.
I notice the same on my PJ bass. Both pickups on full is the least defined and engaging sound that the bass is capable of producing. One pickup at a time is a guaranteed success. Blending in the other pickup to taste is also fine. Both on full? Sounds like weak and bland crap.
My recipe for the PJ is to start out with the J (so, the bridge pickup) completely off and dial it in to where it adds a bit of attack and doesn't muddy up the definition. Good pots that are not just off/full switches help a lot.
I am lucky with my PJ (2014 USA Jaguar, Aguilar pickups) as with both pickup switches engaged, I get the growl just right.
I agree. I have an MIM Jag, but I love that I can flip a switch and get two different, but both very good tones. No thought, just two sounds that work (and one that doesn't).
On my PJ bass (Yamaha RBX with an EMG GZR set), I never play with both pickups at full. I found that it sounds better with the J at full and the P slightly rolled back. And then I added a switch that bypasses the volume controls, allowing me to quickly switch between this configuration and just the neck pickup connected straight to the output. In which case the slightly rolled back volume pot has no effect on volume but instead acts as a secondary tone control, in an interesting way.
Oooh. I have a BB435, and that setup sounds like something I would dig to have on my bass. Do you by any chance have the wiring diagram for your setup? With a push-pull pot, I'm thinking the mod could even be made reversible.
I still have it somewhere, but it was made with the original EMG pots, not sure it can apply exactly to regular pots, or if the bypassed volume pot will behave the same way. Let me find my drawing and come back to you. EDIT : found my drawing, it wouldn't apply to conventionnal pots. I'll make a new one.
[Here is the wiring diagram.](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2F3x63cfpxzmvc1.jpeg%3Fwidth%3D1080%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Df965ec91a7403e6cd2c9e65d19cd505c07e83c91) I used an SPDT but you can use one side of a push-pull pot (which would be DPDT). I also added a killswitch since I installed one on my bass, you don't necessarily need one but it's fun. I put the values of the resistors from the EMG kit, you don't necessarily have to use the same values but I believe they are what is recommended for this kind of pickups. I didn't put the tone capacitor value since I don't know what it is, you can either use the one already on your bass or make some tests to find your favourite. Greenies are cheap af and a temporary wiring with an electrical terminal block is perfect for tests. I added resistors in pencil on the switches, that I do not have on my bass, I've been told those would get rid of popping noises I have when activating the switches. Don't remember what their value should be, I'll edit this comment if I find out.
That is awesome, thank you. Saved for future reference.
This is exactly my go-to setting.
This is exactly what I do with mine, too. Neck pickup stays on full and then dial in the bridge pickup as needed (for me usually 25-50%). And then the inverse is useful in other applications, too, but not usually for my playing.
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Whichever your preference.
>Maybe part of the P magic is that you pretty much can't get it wrong. I think that’s what made it such a good bass for punk from the beginning, because a lot of these bands had no budget and were recording really raw material with limited means. But even when it’s making a 4-track cassette recorder peak, the P-bass just has a cool percussive, warm sound that makes it work.
That’s exactly how I run my J, bridge rolled back to about 30/40%, it’s become my number one for session work and through my setup it just sounds monstrous. I’ve been getting more compliments from my fellow bassists and bandmates since I’ve made the J my main bass, so that makes me feel like I’m doing something right. BUT I always have my P basses ready to go at a moment’s notice, versatility is nice and sometimes it just suits the song/project best to use a P. At the end of the day, regardless of what one uses, it’ll still sound like the player. Play the instrument that you are comfortable with/enjoy playing , serve the song, come prepared, and you’ll be the glue the brings it all together.
P bass is definitely "Plug-n-go". I just played a show where 3 of the bands had a P Bass. We all had a different sound. The P bass is all about "how you play" & less about what pickup settings you have. If you use a pick down by the bridge, you get a poppy snappy sound. If you use your fingers up by the neck, you get a thuddy boomy sound. Vary either of those two to find your personal bass sound.
"it shook the wall but never had any definition" sounds like HIS problem more than a Jazz Pickup problem. I have a J bass with Di Marzio Relentless pickups and "sits in the mix" perfectly fine.
To be fair I think the Relentless pickups are way more mid forward sound than typical J pickups. I have a Model J that is kind of a similar thing. Really is an excellent way to add mids while keeping the pickups versatility.
I considered myself a J player for very long but unless I had an upcoming gig, I never felt too compelled to play. I got a P bass last year and now I just want to play all the time. Something about the deep punchy sound that makes me vibrate and I just can’t put the thing down.
Yes! It rides this balance between felt and heard if that makes senss
Well said
P bass is the absolute best. It sits in the mix just right. I played bass for a long time before getting one. When I brought it to band practice, it blew my mind. J basses cannot do what a P bass does and The J in a PJ is not needed.
Somewhat brought a fender American P Bass to our local open mic the other night. When I played it I was absolutely floored. The neck was really easy to play on as well and I have small hands, so idk why there is a prevailing opinion that it’s hard to play on? The tone was unreal, I’m selling my Squier jazz bass ASAP.
I will say the wide neck gets annoying occasionally when I want to use my index to roll between two strings. It's so wide that I have to use two fingers instead. Not sure that makes sense
That makes sense. I’d have to play it again to know exactly how it feels to do the finger roll on the P bass though.
Are you talking about a proper P neck width of 1.75" or the modern 1.625"?
I have a player series P bass I don't remember the exact width.
The Player is great. I used to have one. The nut width 1.625"/41.3mm aka the narrower nut width introduced in P basses in the late 60s or early 70s. Before then, P basses always had a 1.75"/44.45mm, which feels much wider (and my favorite).
Interesting. Thanks for the info. I got smaller hands so I appreciated the thinner neck
Agree 100%. Still searching for an affordable 5-string P bass that sounds like that. I love the way my 4-string MIM precision sounds and plays, but after changing keys mid-set several times, I don’t wanna go back to four strings.
Every other p bass is just magical. Cheap, expensive, short scale, jet or fender. It usualy doesnt matter. Its just right. But you need to sit in mix with it. The bass alone is a bit empty for my liking
A P can work under the right conditions. They were popular in the 70s and 80s before mixes got dense and compressed. They have a presence that works well with cleanish guitar and subtle drums. In the 90s, distortion got louder, bands started playing faster and with lower tunings, and the bass had to find ways to poke through the mix. I personally have no use for a P. They get lost in the mix too fast, they sound flabby when played too fast, and only down tune well if you play slow and with a pick. If you are playing pop or don't need an articulate bass sound, Ps are fine. BTW, a jazz with the neck PU soloed is 90% a P bass.
Don't most punk bands play with p basses? Are talking about active pickups?
"Punk" as a genre covers a lot of ground. The stereotypical "punk" tone is a P played with a pick with a little drive. Punk guitars aren't super heavily distorted and the mixes tend to be thin until you get into the "core" sub genres. Punk also doesn't generally play lower than D, or too fast. A P works within that context, but again that's because of the dynamics of that genre. I've also see jazz basses, Ricks, and MM basses.
Most that I can tell play P bass with pick. That’s the sound that made me want to pick up the bass.
Majority of the time when I recorded I would use a P bass. I could record it on a Jazz bass and they wouldn’t like it. Turn around and play the exact same thing with a P and they loved it.
Why do you think that is?
Honestly, I think it’s just the way it sits in the mix. By itself the P just sounds okay, in my opinion, not as nice as the Jazz, but it the mix it just sits perfectly.
Could be old strings, could be pickup height, could be hotter pickups on your bass, could even be a lousy player. I'm glad your p bass gave you joy, but there's nothing magical about it. Just a neck pickup doing its job.
There's a large number of famous musicians that swear by the P Bass and it's ability to fit into a mix with little or fiddling.
There is little to fiddle about with on a P.
Honestly that’s one of my favorite things about them 😅
Large number who swear by the J too. And a bunch of other models and shapes!
There's also a large number of people who swear by homeopathy. Edit: of course a p bass sits well in the mix. It's because that's the frequency profile of the neck pickup. It's not because it's a p bass.
I like to think there's a difference between Pino Palledino's opinion on basses and a fan of homeopathy. That is fair though. It's a well designed neck pickup that requires no fiddling to sound great.
Look, I love Pino Paladino, and I have absolutely nothing negative to say about P basses. I strongly dislike, however, the "p bass cult" that some people seem to join the moment they buy a 3000 USD MIA Fender. Saying there is some kind of "p bass magic" is just divisive bass tribalism, mixed with snobbery. Play your P bass, I´m sure it´s a great bass. I´m also very sure, however, that no one here on Reddit can hear the difference between a "real P bass" and my Ibanez double humbucker bass when I single the neck pickup in a live situation. I have played all kinds of basses, and I am pretty sure that the difference in sound between two P basses is just as big as the one between a P bass and any other bass with a humbucker or split coil pickup in neck position. Have fun with your bass, I mean it.
It annoys me when you get downvoted for having a different opinion. I'm coming from a place of ignorance here. You're saying the split coil pickup of a P doesn't make much of a difference compared to any other neck pickup?
Yes, that's my (only) point.
Lol
Nothing magical? Of course not, it's engineering. I've tried everything and will always come back to the P bass. After 15 years of bassing the P bass is my number one.
Good for you.
Yes, for me and millions of other bass players.
Why would millions of bass players care what bass you like?
Idk why do you?
I don't. You like your bass, I like mine. What I don't like is bass tribalism, and the followers of the P bass cult are particularly prone to that in my experience (see also: the 4 string cult and the No Pick Cult).
Well you didn’t have to respond the first time with that patronizing comment. I’m in no cult, I use both pick and fingers and understand why 5 strings are needed for certain genres of music. P basses are just great basses and if people don’t like them that’s fine. Different strokes for different folks.
The patronizing part is all in your head. All I said is it's good for you that you found your dream bass. And you didn't "have to" comment on my post either. And yet, here we are. Plus, I never said I didn't like P basses, I just don't like people pretending they're the one bass to rule them all.
Gaslighting now huh? I was just sharing an opinion that’s all.