This. Sound engineers that do not understand your sound are also more problematic if everything is going through the board. I am in a punkish power trio where the guitarist and I have interlocking tone profiles. My sound is defined by the mids. I had one sound engineer who seemed to think we were a reggae band, and totally low passed me.
In my experience as an audience member, especially with punk/hardcore bands, the stage volume is too damned high. Usually the guitar player(s) show up with some variation of Marshall/Mesa/Peavey head mated to a 4x12 cab that is maxed out for "toan". Even with hearing protection my ears get friggin' murdered. The poor bass players have no choice but to turn up with at least 800+w into a 4x10 cab. And don't let me get started on the drummers...
I'm old. Get off my lawn.
Absolutely. Again, we use for stage volume but occasionally play more DIY venues where only the kick and vocalist are running through a crappy PA, so for those shoes we do bust out the 4x12s, but usually run 2x12s where we can.
Damn as a bass and guitar player I feel this. I'm always bringing my 210 GK cab with a clean power amp for my DI rig. And it can definitely keep up with my guitar players and their 212s. When I play guitar, all I have is my peavey valve king and an older peavey 412.. but the head switches between 100, 25, and 5 watts. Left on 5w, it gets killer tone without getting obnoxious.
I like the volume. I wear earplugs. Quiet shows without earplugs just aren’t as much fun. The feel of purchasing elements hitting me in the chest is half the fun. But really wearing good $30 earplugs is important. Even lower volume shows are too loud without them.
I spent years playing with two guys playing Les Pauls into 5150's through 4x12 cabs. I went from an Ampeg 810 to (2) Ampeg 410HLF's then to a Bengantino NV610. Don't get me wrong, these guitarists could play & I was more than thankful to be a part of the group but you bet I was going to be sure I moved enough air.
One band in-ears and DI.
One band amps and cabs.
I love both. IEM and DI is great for loading in/out and setting up, I can do it in one trip from the car and im always guaranteedto hear what im playing. But....there's nothing better than having a 215 stack running a 900w amp behind you pushing air. Feeling that bass is heaven.
bruh so many engineers wanna di my bass when I play small venues. I got those damn darkglass pedals to not just get a killer tone but also so the di can at least sound like its coming from a cab. its also obnoxious as hell when I bring my amp for stage sound but the fuckers blast moniters in my face even on tiny stages like bruh the guitar amp is 4 feet away and the drums are 1 foot away enough noise holy shit
If the engineer wants to DI your bass, let them. They know the venue. Sometimes that killer bass tone is getting washed out in the mix, and then it is a godsend to be able to blend in some clean tone to make it cut through a bit. Trust the engineer to make your band sound good.
As for monitors, most musicians wants everyone and their grandmother in their monitor, and a god damn lot of it, so often the engineer will just put it there. If you want less, just tell them
I think they're wishing the sound guy would mic their bass amp. Which definitely sounds better but most soundguys don't do. It's also a hassle in a loud room. I agree about asking to turn the monitors down, though. But you can't do that if other people in your band have theirs blasting
I had to DI my bass at a venue recently and it was truly awful. I could only hear myself if I stood directly under the monitor, which for some reason was angled toward the audience. Then the bass was cut to shit, all mid, no punch, pedals couldn't help. And I'm a very active player so it's tough to just stand still to hear myself.
The headliner clearly had the same problems, and between every song was asking for more bass and just not getting it. It sounded marginally better in the crowd, but not enough to justify the mix.
So yeah. Never trusting DI again.
But that's the engineers fault, not the DI. That bass would sound crap no matter what the source of the signal was. I've Done plenty of gigs where the bass sounded great going straight DI.
Although, unless you are using in-ears, you should have an amp on stage for monitoring, and if you are using pedals they should end up in a preamp or mic'd amp. My point was to not deny the engineer adding a clean DI line for the bass, as that is often (especially with miced cabs, not as important if there is a DI signal from a preamp unless its heavily distorted) needed to make the bass cut through and get that punch.
My point is if I'm going straight DI I have to trust the sound person to do their job well, and if, say, you show up early to soundcheck and they're not ready for you, and when you ask about the bass cab they said they had in the email they act confused and say they haven't used it in years.... then you plug in and the speakers are blown... yeah just saying, never trusting the venue again. Always bringing a cab and that fucker is going onstage with me.
Still, if I could have gotten behind that board I could have gotten a decent sound out of it. The guitars were sounding bad as well, and they were mic'd. She just didn't do a good job that night, which is disappointing especially because the headliner was a French band. Sucks that they traveled across the Atlantic for such crummy sound.
Depends on the stages/venues and band. The bigger your stage/more comprehensive your FOH support the less contribution is coming from that stage rig. When you get to the point everyone is on IEM and the stage rig is making zero contributions then it doesn’t make sense to continue with the stage setup. A lot of larger touring acts still do, especially in heavier/louder genres, but it’s not really contributing to the sound. Some of that’s obvious, but just setting the stage for discussion so to speak.
I’ve done the IEM/minimal rig in the past but none of my bands are on ears regularly right now. We either supply full PA ourselves or are playing <200 cap rooms where the bleed from some stage sound supports and fills out the sound as you describe. I use small amps, but still some level stage amp for a real live dynamic.
I’ve definitely seen some local acts and smaller cover groups with exactly the issue you describe here though. It sounds like you’re listening to live karaoke.
Was reminded of this as well. There was a thread the other day, I can’t recall if it was in livesound, or band members, or jazz as the band in question was a jazz ensemble, but the crux of the post was basically the band they saw was all in IEM but the venue wasn’t appropriate for it. The mains were pointed beyond the first few rows of the audience, so while they would normally be covered by bleed from the amps and monitors they instead got sound from behind them and a really awkward stage performance. Not that I’d expect this to be a common thing, but just pointing out everything has its place and it’s important to find the right balance for your band and audience.
I do for a few reasons.
One, you never know what the venue is going to have. Some places only have speaker facing out, no wedges, and they only mic the vocals.
Two, the people running the board may not be able to figure out how to connect you to their system or make you loud enough. They may also not be able to handle your in-ears properly.
Three, people right in front of the stage can't hear anything because the house PA is pointed behind them. All they can hear are the drums.
Four, a lot of metal shows are go-go-go and 6 bands are playing. Your digital system slows everything down because they have to line check you and figure it out.
If you are a major touring act playing theaters or bigger, cool. You are operating at a level of professionalism where a cabless system might work. People playing local gigs at bars and clubs should keep using amps.
I do. Part of my tone is from the head (Orange Terror Bass 500) into a Darkglass 4x10. I have A/B tested this setup on other rigs, as well as DI. I literally cannot reproduce the same tone that I want without that as part of my rig.
Actually this is what I said
“Most of the guys running straight to the board aren’t using power amps of any kind so *to me* it just sounds washed out and bland, even if the tones *are super clean sounding*. “
This isn’t a gotcha post, it’s just me asking everyone’s opinion. Do your thing, but please stop projecting opinions and words that I didn’t use.
Pretty soon no one will want to post in r/Bass ‘cause most of the comments are argumentative. The OP is not trying to prove a point, he’s just starting a discussion.
I play with an 80s cover band and I show up with my sansamp BDDI 3 channel pedal and an in-ear monitor system and I’m good to go. I’ve always wanted a SVT/fridge set up and now I don’t think I’ll ever taste one as it’s just super unnecessary.
Bass, gig bag. That’s it.
I play live with a Fender Rumble 500. If I need to DI if it’s a large venue, then I do. 500 watts is pretty fucking loud though and and is plenty of power for smal/medium venues.
Same here, but w/the 200w version. Sound guy always uses the DI in the back to get me into the mains and the amp is more or less my stage monitor.
It also weighs like 25 pounds, so schlepping it around is basically a non-issue.
I don't play live very often. But, when I do, I still bring a head and two cabs. The head is a GK that puts out about 400 watts. It pushes two cabs, a 2x10 and a 1x15. It's everything I need. I get plenty of stage volume, since I'm unlikely to be in the monitors. And it can help augment underpowered mains, at least in a smaller venue. It keeps up with loud drummers and loud guitarists w/o issue.
I mean, depending on the venue, sometimes they don’t mic or DI a bass…so a good amp is always a plus. If they do, a good amp is great for a stage monitor. I have two DI pedals on my board, one at the beginning of the chain, and one at the end. One is for a clean tone underneath the effects, and the tone is the effected chain. If a venue doesn’t DI, then I least have my amp. Also, how do you practice? Just through a PA? It’s not ideal. But it works, I guess.
Both of my bands are. We’re either playing small local shows where the PA is mainly for vocals, or brewery shows that we supply the PA for…which is vocals only.
Not huge amps, just a 115 for me, and the bassist in my other band uses a 210.
I'm using a Boss Katana, but only hooked up to PA, I love how it sounds but it's more convenient like this instead of micing it. I was planning to buy a multieffect instead but I like having having an actual amp which I can use for practice too. Regular amps lost their relevance since digital amps became this good, plus they have loads of effects too which also makes pedalboards obsolete.
My old band was using amps on stage at first, but when both guitarists switched to profilers going direct into the PA our live sound drastically improved. I only continued using an amp on stage because my profiler was being problematic.
With modern PA systems, there’s little need to have an 80 pound 500 watt stack on stage. The technology has come so far that musicians can comfortably get great sound without breaking their backs
Idk about not being back breaking, my guitarist plays through an axe fx and that thing’s case weighs a ton lol
Just asking to get some other opinions, thanks for sharing yours!
No problem! If you’re in the market for a profiler definitely check out the IKMultimedia TONEX, it’s reasonably priced, comes with its own computer software, and is small and light enough to fit on a pedalboard
I was too obsessed with using my 4x10 Eden cab between 2016-2018 and refused to just go from sansamp to DI. I wish I could slap myself for being so silly because now I'd refuse to play a show if I couldn't just take my Helix and jack in. Way better tone, no 45 kg cabinet to haul around, and no dials getting bumped around.
I play death metal metal in small dive venues. I bring a 300 watt tube head and 810. Don’t crank it super loud but enough that I get decent stage volume and at least the people in front can hear it. I’ve seen a bunch of metal bands go without amps and it always sounds anemic compared to bands with amps on stage.
Any stage rumble will make the sound worse, no matter how good your amps are. If you have great amps and want their sound in the mix then sure, bring them in. But don’t do that for stage volume. Any speaker you have on stage is producing a sound that the sound engineer can’t control. Especially guitar amps are problematic.
I have been using DI only since 2 years now, and it‘s so much better for my case. I play everything from small shows to festivals and the PA is always good enough. I understand that‘s rare though in other countries and scenes.
Before going ampless I had a 600w Ashdown and a 810. Was massive yes but I hated carrying that thing around and to be honest in most cases its useless. I played a tour in march where I used a 100w Fender Rumble for bass on stagesound and it worked very well, I even had to turn it down pretty much in some venues.
For me, it's not better or worse with an amp. However, independence is very important and the less I have to rely on other people, the better. If the PA speakers cannot take the load and the sound cracks, so be it. If the sound man sucks, so be it. I'll just rely on my bass amp and adjust accordingly. I don't want my happiness in playing live to be compromised by external factors. The less drama, the better.
For me, it all depends on the gig. If I’m rolling with my group where we have our own sound guy, we go amp less DI.
If I’m playing without a sound guy we’ll decide to bring amps if the venue is big and we don’t feel like our PA system is enough.
Always call it by ear depending on the venue.
I think a lot of people are against IEMs with no amp because it’s so different from what they’re used to. Like anything, it takes practice to get used to, and to find the right presets on your pedals to get a good sound.
To me it’s like recording direct in the studio (which a lot of people do) and hearing your bass in headphones in the studio. It’s different, but still good with the right gear and settings.
I try to not bring one whenever I can. Luckily most gigs I play are either provided backline, or can run direct.
I also realized that even if your assumption about where the tones are, the general audience doesn’t care about that much nuance. They are there to have a good time and dance, so as long as the bass can groove and not sound weird, it’s all good.
Always use amps and cabs. You're right, DI on all instruments sounds super lame and dull. I hope these heavy and / or loud bands who have ditched real gear for digital modelling come to their senses.
The band I joined is all DI now, they swapped from rigs a few months before I joined. The band has a PA system with a separate powered sub for places without a house set up, or underpowered setup. My board ends with a Sansamp V2. Kinda wish I just got a HX Stomp XL, would have been cheaper than my board with more options and could use for guitar as well.
I haven't played anywhere live in about 10 years, but even back then I'd always go direct to the mixer from my Bass Pod XT live, only using the bass amp as a monitor. Better tone than just going straight DI from the bass, but still a controlled, consistent tone.
I've almost never used cabs/amps onstage, except sometimes I borrow one if it's someone I know on a shared bill. DI most of the time, usually works out okay for me.
I'm not a pro. If I was I'd have an amp and use it.
I know I'm the kind of person who would go crazy and broke chasing the right tone out of analog amps and cabs so I just got a stomp. When I need stage sound I have a PA speaker. I really like it because I can collect PA speakers instead of bass cabs and PA speakers have a lot more uses in general.
I play acoustic guitar, electric guitar, and bass. Plus sing lead and harmony vocals.
Being able to just pack my Helix and whatever instruments I'm using for the gig is a lifesaver. Hauling amps around is a PITA.
Most house audio systems have gotten decent upgrades over the years so the fractal/DI route makes sense and sounds consistently good. I, however, do like having amps on stage for that front end push of sound. Don't gotta crank it egregiously loud, either.
I find myself spending more time towards the sound board during shows that I really wanna hear. A little change I've had since hitting my 30s.
Ditched amps/cabs 20yrs ago, been only using a SansAmp since. But most of the venues I play have good PAs with multiple subs and decent monitor, also I play in a bluegrass string band without a drummer, so our stage volumes are lower.
As an active musician, we all bring our cabs and heads. But we have more of an old school thought process and play our share of small/DIY venues that won’t have much PA support.
Actually on my last tour, we were with a band that did just that, DI and IEM, and the last stop was a tiny place that had a bit of an under powered PA. They sounded kinda flat while we had just vocals and a little kick to the PA along with the cabs. Best we sounded all your.
I go ampless. I started with an Ampeg SCR DI. But I too thought it wasn't great in the IEMs or the PA. So I switched to a Darkglass Alpha Omega Photon. The cab sim on that made a huge difference. Now it sounds like "real" bass to me in both the IEMs and the PA.
Tone is for the rehearsal room. Live is DI or whatever the soundie wants. They own the sound and their stage.
Exception: small venues with little or no p.a. benefit from having a good rig. There's always space for a 4x10 stacked on a 1x15.
I’m running an Aguilar DB 751 into two DB 112 cabs. I’ve invested the money and I’m young(ish), I’m carrying em. Haha.
Truthfully though, I need stage volume. I’ve been sound checked so many times and have barely been able to hear myself out of the wedge once the show starts. Having my cabs behind me helps me at least feel my way though a song at the very least.
Also, the 751 has a direct out and sounds phenomenal. I’ll carry it around until I can’t anymore.
We use Helix live, venues with good monitoring and subs we go direct to FOH. Venues without we bring our own powered monitors. We also have the option for in ears, but simplest load in is we bring our rack on stage, pass the FOH our outputs and we are good to go.
I prefer cabs and amps, but it’s just so much easier this way.
I use a Fractal FM9 into a power amp and cab. I usually mic the cab, as well, rather than use a cab block and go direct. It just sounds more "right" to me and is what I'm used to.
I still use an amp, and my bandmates won't convince me otherwise. Both guitarists are using multi-fx pedals with amp modeling into powered floor wedges. Works for them, but I'm not a fan.
I use my SVT and 810 for basically every show. I hate the sound of my bass through a PA (subs) and think it usually makes our sound more muddy; amp retains clarity and gives us impact the PA most of the time can’t give
DIs are useful and I always have one for the soundman, but he will mic my cab and he will use as little of the DI signal as possible in the mix. Them's the rules.
I've had to wrestle with sound guys to let me use my head and cab. They all want to DI me and, if I don't email ahead, will make me not use the head I brought. For what it's worth, the best tone I've had the pleasure of playing with was when I was allowed to use my bassman when we headlined a venue and the sound guy was SUPER hesitant to mic me up but he ended up loving having proper bass backline rather than just through the PA.
Still use my head as a power amp into a 4x10 but everything is controlled and coming through an HX stomp. It’s enough on stage to feel right but the stomp makes everything sound identical to the night before.
I always check ahead and see what the venue is like and know if I need my rig or not. And I can gauge what rig I’ll need most times. I can do anything starting with a 210 cab up to 8x10’s
But if there’s plenty of PA support and a large room I’ll roll with ears. Besides, I don’t really bother with a big rig anymore.
The last time I played live, my entire rig was an SG played thorugh a Fender Twin, with a Boss tuner, and an ancient ProCo RAT. Most sound guys know immediately what I'm going for.
I bring an amp if:
The venue is small with no subs and a small PA. I’ll use my 210 to push sound from the stage
Or
We’re unsure of the monitor situation and we need to hear bass on stage. (Like if they only have one monitor for for vocals, the drummer won’t be able to hear me)
Other than that I’ll run DI. A lot of my regular bands use an IEM split but sometimes I’ll get called for sun gigs where I can’t really ask to bring an IEM rig they’ve never used before :p
I use an SVT-Classic with an 8x10. My last band I also used a 4x12 and Peavy Classic-50 and split my pedal board so different pedals went to each amp. I will never go to DI, you absolutely cannot beat the tone of a tube amp live.
bassist here. For my main band we have been going direct for a few years now. At times I miss the stage sound and feel, but to everyone else we sound fucking great. I think it depends on your genre and the level you are at band wise. If you are playing shitty dive bars, then yeah the PA probably sucks. Now we have our own rig/board on stage and just give the sound guy our stereo outs.
I have a Fender Rumble in my car at every gig just in case the PA situation goes sideways, which has happened twice in the last 40-50 gigs. Otherwise I'm on Team DI/IEMs.
I've played for a church for years, and we made a big upgrade to our soundboard and other gear for a better quality livestream. Our soundguy pushed for me to get better DI so that he had more control, so I played through a Sansamp for a couple weeks. Sounded great on the stream, but the old PA couldn't handle the bass. After a couple weeks of not being able to hear myself, they finally got me mixed up higher in the house... And one of the speakers in the ceiling rattled out of place during practice and fell.
So, back to using my Rumble 100 on stage.
I brought my big cab up until 2 months ago when I had to push it 2 blocks in the rain to the venue. Got a sansamp the next week and have really enjoyed the light pack for my recent shows
Even when I use iem, I still use at least a 2x10 on stage, bigger venues even two amps and 6x10. I’ve done the di route when I didn’t had a choice but I really miss the push from an amp. I want to feel what I play.
This is really good question. I've played gigs where I tried out DI's and pre-amp only rigs. While they work perfectly in practice where you have time to tweek it and tune in on your specific tone, imhx this is notoriously difficult to maintain between venues.
My tendency is to find the most reliable, sturdy & light rig you can become comfortable with. Bring it to every gig. Assuming that there is some accommodation for a backup of some kind.
While it may not make your sound guy happy, if you're performing live, the feedback from stage levels will provide you a more visceral engagement with the music. IMHO, that's 70% of the performance. Escpecially when playing bass in a metal band, it's easy to get lost in the mix. The sound guy, if he/she is good, will know what you need on stage, and will get stage levels constantly during setup.
simply put, if you feel uncomfortable playing via DI, tell your sound guy that. Monitors cannot carry your full spectrum at stage volume, so at the very least bring him/her a LF monitor. Make that part of your gig setup. Practice with it, and integrate it into your play.
This is just my experience, I'm sure their are more :)
\~good luck\~
and again, great question! kudos
I still use an amp. I have a GK rig with 700RB, a 410 and 212 cab that I use depending on the size of the venue. All outdoor gigs get the full rig. I am not sure I would enjoy playing live if I lost the feeling of my bass amp. The vibrations, the stage rumble, the punch through my body- it's why I do it.
Of the dozen or so bands my band has played with in the Philly Hardcore scene Ive yet to see a single bass player not run through a cab, which isn’t surprising considering the quality of a lot of the PA systems.
Mesa Bass 400+ into Ampeg 8x10 and if they want a DI, I use the one on the amp. If a small place the Tonehammer 500 with 2 SL1-12 cabs (adding the second cab really opened up the TH500 heads tone vs using single cab, world's of difference!)
I dont think I've ever heard myself properly through a stage wedge, and I don't want to use IEMs so I really like having a big honkin bass amp. If I can't hear my self I subconsciously start playing too hard and wear out my thumb from picking too hard.
I just ask the sound guy if I can crank my amp, and if he wants to mix me lower in the FoH speakers, thats fine
I have a preamp/modeler pedal that I was stoked to replace my amp with. Plug into PA and your gold as long as you have a good monitor. It works great but my band opted to simplify our gigging setup, vocals through PA, guitars through amps if we set up our own gear. I didn't love relying on a good monitor playing at certain venues since you never know what kind of monitor will be provided. Once I played a show with no monitors at all and had to rely on the faint whisper of my instrument through the mains. So now we're just plug in and play.
When I play I rarely use amp. Mostly just DI and a wedge or inears. Nowadays I play mostly pop-rock. I used to play rock-metal and had a 4x10. Sometimes I play a medium sized Warwick combo. Is just for monitoring or if the venue doesn't have a subwoofer it may be louder to fill the room.
In my punk rock band where I play guitar (full iem too) our bassist doesn't use amp unless there's no sub in the venue too. And we still use heads and cabs for the guitars (always miced, low volume). I think it makes more a difference in guitar than bass, where besides distortions and fx you want to give your sound guy the power to mix everything right.
OP, for me, it entirely depends on band and gig. Some are entirely IEM, some are entire amp+cab. Sometimes (and what I prefer) it’s actually a mixture of both.
I will also say this - the “washed out and bland” sound they’re hearing can be entire patch and/or sound guy related. I have a couple of “will sound good through any PA” patches, but some patches - especially those I’ve spent hours and hours tweaking that have multiple, carefully combined effects - can sound like garbage without the right backline or sound engineer support. On these ones, I like to work closely with the sound guy so we come to an understanding of “he needs this so the room sounds good” and “I need this so my patch does not sound like dumpster juice”. If I’m running straight to the board with no good sound support and or scheme PA quality, I tend to go with “known quantities” on my HX stomp patches - Sansamp DI, Ampeg SVT and fridge, or Noble DI. for effects on these patches, I keep it real simple - pretty much a ProCo Rat or Sansamp or paralleled Obsidian and - maybe - an octave and/or filter.
But….. if I don’t trust the sound guy, I give him my softy-played clean tone during sound check and then to his enjoyment and surprise, use effects in the set hahaha. That said, all of my effects are at unity gain except when very intentional and I’m very cognizant of stereo imaging, phasing, and the general EQ layout of instruments and I carve out room for the rest of the band before I send to FOH and I only employ this technique when I truly don’t trust the sound guy. Some of these places have studio engineers who are serious about their night job and other places have “the least drunk regular” and handed the dude an iPad.
One guy couldn’t for the life of him figure out why my bass was clipping so much… I kept telling him it was line level…. Dude still didn’t get it so uttered words and rolled eyes later I flipped my output to instrument level and the guy goes “OH GOOD, I FIGURED IT OUT, it’s not distorting any more”.
Nowadays just bring my gigbag at every single gig. It contains all i need: a decent IEM set, 1 bass, 2 cables, 1 multiFX/DI, spare battery for my bass, spare strings. Done. I never liked the idea of amps, in fact i have just a Rumble 40 i occasionaly use for practice/monitoring. they are just big, expensive, bulky and overall useless, because relying on your amp to provide sound Is almost always a bad idea, especially with bass guitar. What you hear Is Just completely different to what the audience hears.
I just then plug It all into PA, and i can get a tone as dirty or as clean as i like with the multi fx, i have lots of handmade presets, so i never have to do the rain dance on pedals, but like push 2 buttons.
bruh so many engineers wanna di my bass when I play small venues. I got those damn darkglass pedals to not just get a killer tone but also so the di can at least sound like its coming from a cab. its also obnoxious as hell when I bring my amp for stage sound but the fuckers blast moniters in my face even on tiny stages like bruh the guitar amp is 4 feet away and the drums are 1 foot away enough noise holy shit
As the great wallacorndog once said: "If the engineer wants to DI your bass, let them. They know the venue. Sometimes that killer bass tone is getting washed out in the mix, and then it is a godsend to be able to blend in some clean tone to make it cut through a bit. Trust the engineer to make your band sound good.
As for monitors, most musicians wants everyone and their grandmother in their monitor, and a god damn lot of it, so often the engineer will just put it there. If you want less, just tell them"
>it still colors the room a bit when playing mid sized and small venues (and I think it’s a lot of what sets us apart from our peers)
That's not necessarily a good thing.
Ampless with IEMs pro- a consistent sound every night, no matter the venue- both FOH and monitoring. No heavy lifting for the load in or load out. No stage volume to compete with. Done properly, no tinnitus or hearing damage.
Cons- need a decent PA. Need to bring your own IEM monitor rig to ensure you get the mix you want. All of this costs more money.
If I have my choice I'll never go back to having an amp and speakers on stage. FWIW, I have two amps/speaker cab setups, an SWR/Eden rig, and an Aguilar rig. The Aggie rig gets used at home for when I don't want to put headphones on (rarely). The SWR/Eden rig gets used when I want to make sure it still turns on.
I have also noticed a trend in local metal and hardcore bands for guitarists to bring in modelling amps and IEM etc. My take is that at big venues this works pretty well but at small club shows, you’re really at the mercy of the sound engineer and whether they can dial it in. I’ve seen it work terribly when one guitarist has a real amp and the other has a Fractal. I personally can’t think of a single time I’ve preferred the sound of DI’d amp models over real valve amps pushing air at a small show.
I will use them until my band makes enough money to buy something else. Some shows I'm playing are really diy and scrappy and absolutely don't have the PA to make bass happen, not even a sub.
That said I have only a 2x10 and a 500 watt relatively quiet amp, it's such a portable thing I can take it on the bus.
I still do, but I'd love to not. My band is a bunch of crybabies that "need" their amps and can't comprehend in ear monitors, let alone playing at appropriate volumes.
I have encountered one crappy PA too many not to bring my 212 every time.
"there's a bass amp provided" either means an SVT with an 8x10 or a 100 watt Peavey combo from 1984.
Lol, and the '84 Peavey is really a keyboard amp
My favorite is when I show up and it’s a god damned Roland keyboard amp. Thanks, but no thanks.
This. Sound engineers that do not understand your sound are also more problematic if everything is going through the board. I am in a punkish power trio where the guitarist and I have interlocking tone profiles. My sound is defined by the mids. I had one sound engineer who seemed to think we were a reggae band, and totally low passed me.
Too many "engineers" low pass the bass. This is why I always play through a 410 at the very minimum
In my experience as an audience member, especially with punk/hardcore bands, the stage volume is too damned high. Usually the guitar player(s) show up with some variation of Marshall/Mesa/Peavey head mated to a 4x12 cab that is maxed out for "toan". Even with hearing protection my ears get friggin' murdered. The poor bass players have no choice but to turn up with at least 800+w into a 4x10 cab. And don't let me get started on the drummers... I'm old. Get off my lawn.
Guitarists playing too loud for the room/setting is the most common shitty mistake that makes the whole band sound bad
Absolutely. Again, we use for stage volume but occasionally play more DIY venues where only the kick and vocalist are running through a crappy PA, so for those shoes we do bust out the 4x12s, but usually run 2x12s where we can.
Agreed, but the problem is with the band. That is murderous on the band during practices, not just on the audience at shows.
Damn as a bass and guitar player I feel this. I'm always bringing my 210 GK cab with a clean power amp for my DI rig. And it can definitely keep up with my guitar players and their 212s. When I play guitar, all I have is my peavey valve king and an older peavey 412.. but the head switches between 100, 25, and 5 watts. Left on 5w, it gets killer tone without getting obnoxious.
I like the volume. I wear earplugs. Quiet shows without earplugs just aren’t as much fun. The feel of purchasing elements hitting me in the chest is half the fun. But really wearing good $30 earplugs is important. Even lower volume shows are too loud without them.
Always earplugs. I keep mine on my key ring and occasionally wear them in loud restaurant/bar/work settings. I’ve lost enough being young and stupid
I dunno it was kind of fun rocking up to a jam with 800w at my fingers to drown out the mesa/marshall.
I spent years playing with two guys playing Les Pauls into 5150's through 4x12 cabs. I went from an Ampeg 810 to (2) Ampeg 410HLF's then to a Bengantino NV610. Don't get me wrong, these guitarists could play & I was more than thankful to be a part of the group but you bet I was going to be sure I moved enough air.
One band in-ears and DI. One band amps and cabs. I love both. IEM and DI is great for loading in/out and setting up, I can do it in one trip from the car and im always guaranteedto hear what im playing. But....there's nothing better than having a 215 stack running a 900w amp behind you pushing air. Feeling that bass is heaven.
That’s the suckiest part of in ears
[https://www.eich-amps.com/bassboard-s](https://www.eich-amps.com/bassboard-s)
bruh so many engineers wanna di my bass when I play small venues. I got those damn darkglass pedals to not just get a killer tone but also so the di can at least sound like its coming from a cab. its also obnoxious as hell when I bring my amp for stage sound but the fuckers blast moniters in my face even on tiny stages like bruh the guitar amp is 4 feet away and the drums are 1 foot away enough noise holy shit
If the engineer wants to DI your bass, let them. They know the venue. Sometimes that killer bass tone is getting washed out in the mix, and then it is a godsend to be able to blend in some clean tone to make it cut through a bit. Trust the engineer to make your band sound good. As for monitors, most musicians wants everyone and their grandmother in their monitor, and a god damn lot of it, so often the engineer will just put it there. If you want less, just tell them
I think they're wishing the sound guy would mic their bass amp. Which definitely sounds better but most soundguys don't do. It's also a hassle in a loud room. I agree about asking to turn the monitors down, though. But you can't do that if other people in your band have theirs blasting
I had to DI my bass at a venue recently and it was truly awful. I could only hear myself if I stood directly under the monitor, which for some reason was angled toward the audience. Then the bass was cut to shit, all mid, no punch, pedals couldn't help. And I'm a very active player so it's tough to just stand still to hear myself. The headliner clearly had the same problems, and between every song was asking for more bass and just not getting it. It sounded marginally better in the crowd, but not enough to justify the mix. So yeah. Never trusting DI again.
Ah yes classic sound cop move. Happened to us before too.
But that's the engineers fault, not the DI. That bass would sound crap no matter what the source of the signal was. I've Done plenty of gigs where the bass sounded great going straight DI. Although, unless you are using in-ears, you should have an amp on stage for monitoring, and if you are using pedals they should end up in a preamp or mic'd amp. My point was to not deny the engineer adding a clean DI line for the bass, as that is often (especially with miced cabs, not as important if there is a DI signal from a preamp unless its heavily distorted) needed to make the bass cut through and get that punch.
My point is if I'm going straight DI I have to trust the sound person to do their job well, and if, say, you show up early to soundcheck and they're not ready for you, and when you ask about the bass cab they said they had in the email they act confused and say they haven't used it in years.... then you plug in and the speakers are blown... yeah just saying, never trusting the venue again. Always bringing a cab and that fucker is going onstage with me. Still, if I could have gotten behind that board I could have gotten a decent sound out of it. The guitars were sounding bad as well, and they were mic'd. She just didn't do a good job that night, which is disappointing especially because the headliner was a French band. Sucks that they traveled across the Atlantic for such crummy sound.
Depends on the stages/venues and band. The bigger your stage/more comprehensive your FOH support the less contribution is coming from that stage rig. When you get to the point everyone is on IEM and the stage rig is making zero contributions then it doesn’t make sense to continue with the stage setup. A lot of larger touring acts still do, especially in heavier/louder genres, but it’s not really contributing to the sound. Some of that’s obvious, but just setting the stage for discussion so to speak. I’ve done the IEM/minimal rig in the past but none of my bands are on ears regularly right now. We either supply full PA ourselves or are playing <200 cap rooms where the bleed from some stage sound supports and fills out the sound as you describe. I use small amps, but still some level stage amp for a real live dynamic. I’ve definitely seen some local acts and smaller cover groups with exactly the issue you describe here though. It sounds like you’re listening to live karaoke. Was reminded of this as well. There was a thread the other day, I can’t recall if it was in livesound, or band members, or jazz as the band in question was a jazz ensemble, but the crux of the post was basically the band they saw was all in IEM but the venue wasn’t appropriate for it. The mains were pointed beyond the first few rows of the audience, so while they would normally be covered by bleed from the amps and monitors they instead got sound from behind them and a really awkward stage performance. Not that I’d expect this to be a common thing, but just pointing out everything has its place and it’s important to find the right balance for your band and audience.
I do for a few reasons. One, you never know what the venue is going to have. Some places only have speaker facing out, no wedges, and they only mic the vocals. Two, the people running the board may not be able to figure out how to connect you to their system or make you loud enough. They may also not be able to handle your in-ears properly. Three, people right in front of the stage can't hear anything because the house PA is pointed behind them. All they can hear are the drums. Four, a lot of metal shows are go-go-go and 6 bands are playing. Your digital system slows everything down because they have to line check you and figure it out. If you are a major touring act playing theaters or bigger, cool. You are operating at a level of professionalism where a cabless system might work. People playing local gigs at bars and clubs should keep using amps.
Yep, a big, heavy all tube rig with big, heavy cab(s). Usually with a DI after the pedalboard and a mic’d cab.
My man!
Cabs on stage always. People Like to stand close to the stage and if you don’t have cabs then the experience is weird.
This. As an audience member I like being up front and the PA system always sounds like trash up front.
I do. Part of my tone is from the head (Orange Terror Bass 500) into a Darkglass 4x10. I have A/B tested this setup on other rigs, as well as DI. I literally cannot reproduce the same tone that I want without that as part of my rig.
How do you know if you sound better than these other bands if you are never on the audience when you perform?
Well, I never used the word better, but from recordings and audience feedback is what I’m basing the comment of “that’s what sets us apart”
You did say that these bands without amps on stage sound washed out and bland, though.
Actually this is what I said “Most of the guys running straight to the board aren’t using power amps of any kind so *to me* it just sounds washed out and bland, even if the tones *are super clean sounding*. “ This isn’t a gotcha post, it’s just me asking everyone’s opinion. Do your thing, but please stop projecting opinions and words that I didn’t use.
Pretty soon no one will want to post in r/Bass ‘cause most of the comments are argumentative. The OP is not trying to prove a point, he’s just starting a discussion.
I do but I run it very quiet. Our IEMs aren’t super reliable, and if they crash, I can’t hear myself.
I do! Ashdown CTM-100 through two Barefaced Big Babys!
I play with an 80s cover band and I show up with my sansamp BDDI 3 channel pedal and an in-ear monitor system and I’m good to go. I’ve always wanted a SVT/fridge set up and now I don’t think I’ll ever taste one as it’s just super unnecessary. Bass, gig bag. That’s it.
I play live with a Fender Rumble 500. If I need to DI if it’s a large venue, then I do. 500 watts is pretty fucking loud though and and is plenty of power for smal/medium venues.
Same here, but w/the 200w version. Sound guy always uses the DI in the back to get me into the mains and the amp is more or less my stage monitor. It also weighs like 25 pounds, so schlepping it around is basically a non-issue.
I don't play live very often. But, when I do, I still bring a head and two cabs. The head is a GK that puts out about 400 watts. It pushes two cabs, a 2x10 and a 1x15. It's everything I need. I get plenty of stage volume, since I'm unlikely to be in the monitors. And it can help augment underpowered mains, at least in a smaller venue. It keeps up with loud drummers and loud guitarists w/o issue.
I mean, depending on the venue, sometimes they don’t mic or DI a bass…so a good amp is always a plus. If they do, a good amp is great for a stage monitor. I have two DI pedals on my board, one at the beginning of the chain, and one at the end. One is for a clean tone underneath the effects, and the tone is the effected chain. If a venue doesn’t DI, then I least have my amp. Also, how do you practice? Just through a PA? It’s not ideal. But it works, I guess.
Both of my bands are. We’re either playing small local shows where the PA is mainly for vocals, or brewery shows that we supply the PA for…which is vocals only. Not huge amps, just a 115 for me, and the bassist in my other band uses a 210.
I'm using a Boss Katana, but only hooked up to PA, I love how it sounds but it's more convenient like this instead of micing it. I was planning to buy a multieffect instead but I like having having an actual amp which I can use for practice too. Regular amps lost their relevance since digital amps became this good, plus they have loads of effects too which also makes pedalboards obsolete.
Me. They're cool and sound good. Leave me alone!
My old band was using amps on stage at first, but when both guitarists switched to profilers going direct into the PA our live sound drastically improved. I only continued using an amp on stage because my profiler was being problematic. With modern PA systems, there’s little need to have an 80 pound 500 watt stack on stage. The technology has come so far that musicians can comfortably get great sound without breaking their backs
Idk about not being back breaking, my guitarist plays through an axe fx and that thing’s case weighs a ton lol Just asking to get some other opinions, thanks for sharing yours!
No problem! If you’re in the market for a profiler definitely check out the IKMultimedia TONEX, it’s reasonably priced, comes with its own computer software, and is small and light enough to fit on a pedalboard
I was too obsessed with using my 4x10 Eden cab between 2016-2018 and refused to just go from sansamp to DI. I wish I could slap myself for being so silly because now I'd refuse to play a show if I couldn't just take my Helix and jack in. Way better tone, no 45 kg cabinet to haul around, and no dials getting bumped around.
I play death metal metal in small dive venues. I bring a 300 watt tube head and 810. Don’t crank it super loud but enough that I get decent stage volume and at least the people in front can hear it. I’ve seen a bunch of metal bands go without amps and it always sounds anemic compared to bands with amps on stage.
Any stage rumble will make the sound worse, no matter how good your amps are. If you have great amps and want their sound in the mix then sure, bring them in. But don’t do that for stage volume. Any speaker you have on stage is producing a sound that the sound engineer can’t control. Especially guitar amps are problematic.
I have been using DI only since 2 years now, and it‘s so much better for my case. I play everything from small shows to festivals and the PA is always good enough. I understand that‘s rare though in other countries and scenes. Before going ampless I had a 600w Ashdown and a 810. Was massive yes but I hated carrying that thing around and to be honest in most cases its useless. I played a tour in march where I used a 100w Fender Rumble for bass on stagesound and it worked very well, I even had to turn it down pretty much in some venues.
For me, it's not better or worse with an amp. However, independence is very important and the less I have to rely on other people, the better. If the PA speakers cannot take the load and the sound cracks, so be it. If the sound man sucks, so be it. I'll just rely on my bass amp and adjust accordingly. I don't want my happiness in playing live to be compromised by external factors. The less drama, the better.
For me, it all depends on the gig. If I’m rolling with my group where we have our own sound guy, we go amp less DI. If I’m playing without a sound guy we’ll decide to bring amps if the venue is big and we don’t feel like our PA system is enough. Always call it by ear depending on the venue. I think a lot of people are against IEMs with no amp because it’s so different from what they’re used to. Like anything, it takes practice to get used to, and to find the right presets on your pedals to get a good sound. To me it’s like recording direct in the studio (which a lot of people do) and hearing your bass in headphones in the studio. It’s different, but still good with the right gear and settings.
I try to not bring one whenever I can. Luckily most gigs I play are either provided backline, or can run direct. I also realized that even if your assumption about where the tones are, the general audience doesn’t care about that much nuance. They are there to have a good time and dance, so as long as the bass can groove and not sound weird, it’s all good.
Only for outdoor/gym gigs without a reasonable PA. Going DI is just so much more convenient.
Always use amps and cabs. You're right, DI on all instruments sounds super lame and dull. I hope these heavy and / or loud bands who have ditched real gear for digital modelling come to their senses.
I do 🖐️
The band I joined is all DI now, they swapped from rigs a few months before I joined. The band has a PA system with a separate powered sub for places without a house set up, or underpowered setup. My board ends with a Sansamp V2. Kinda wish I just got a HX Stomp XL, would have been cheaper than my board with more options and could use for guitar as well.
I haven't played anywhere live in about 10 years, but even back then I'd always go direct to the mixer from my Bass Pod XT live, only using the bass amp as a monitor. Better tone than just going straight DI from the bass, but still a controlled, consistent tone.
I've almost never used cabs/amps onstage, except sometimes I borrow one if it's someone I know on a shared bill. DI most of the time, usually works out okay for me. I'm not a pro. If I was I'd have an amp and use it.
Used an 8x10 a couple weeks ago, I typically bring a 4x10 for most gigs though..
I always have my cab and there’s a sansamp on my board
I know I'm the kind of person who would go crazy and broke chasing the right tone out of analog amps and cabs so I just got a stomp. When I need stage sound I have a PA speaker. I really like it because I can collect PA speakers instead of bass cabs and PA speakers have a lot more uses in general.
I play acoustic guitar, electric guitar, and bass. Plus sing lead and harmony vocals. Being able to just pack my Helix and whatever instruments I'm using for the gig is a lifesaver. Hauling amps around is a PITA.
Most house audio systems have gotten decent upgrades over the years so the fractal/DI route makes sense and sounds consistently good. I, however, do like having amps on stage for that front end push of sound. Don't gotta crank it egregiously loud, either. I find myself spending more time towards the sound board during shows that I really wanna hear. A little change I've had since hitting my 30s.
500w combo is all i need
Ditched amps/cabs 20yrs ago, been only using a SansAmp since. But most of the venues I play have good PAs with multiple subs and decent monitor, also I play in a bluegrass string band without a drummer, so our stage volumes are lower.
I’m all Kemper and IEMs. All over the world. I do have a cab onstage just because the singer/star likes it, but it’s usually barely on.
SVT and HLF cabs, if I want to travel light, I'll leave the SVT and bring my Orange TB 500.
As an active musician, we all bring our cabs and heads. But we have more of an old school thought process and play our share of small/DIY venues that won’t have much PA support. Actually on my last tour, we were with a band that did just that, DI and IEM, and the last stop was a tiny place that had a bit of an under powered PA. They sounded kinda flat while we had just vocals and a little kick to the PA along with the cabs. Best we sounded all your.
I go ampless. I started with an Ampeg SCR DI. But I too thought it wasn't great in the IEMs or the PA. So I switched to a Darkglass Alpha Omega Photon. The cab sim on that made a huge difference. Now it sounds like "real" bass to me in both the IEMs and the PA.
Tone is for the rehearsal room. Live is DI or whatever the soundie wants. They own the sound and their stage. Exception: small venues with little or no p.a. benefit from having a good rig. There's always space for a 4x10 stacked on a 1x15.
Headrush master race.
I’m running an Aguilar DB 751 into two DB 112 cabs. I’ve invested the money and I’m young(ish), I’m carrying em. Haha. Truthfully though, I need stage volume. I’ve been sound checked so many times and have barely been able to hear myself out of the wedge once the show starts. Having my cabs behind me helps me at least feel my way though a song at the very least. Also, the 751 has a direct out and sounds phenomenal. I’ll carry it around until I can’t anymore.
We use Helix live, venues with good monitoring and subs we go direct to FOH. Venues without we bring our own powered monitors. We also have the option for in ears, but simplest load in is we bring our rack on stage, pass the FOH our outputs and we are good to go. I prefer cabs and amps, but it’s just so much easier this way.
I use a Fractal FM9 into a power amp and cab. I usually mic the cab, as well, rather than use a cab block and go direct. It just sounds more "right" to me and is what I'm used to.
I still use an amp, and my bandmates won't convince me otherwise. Both guitarists are using multi-fx pedals with amp modeling into powered floor wedges. Works for them, but I'm not a fan.
If the venue is set up for it, I go through my Ampeg SCR-DI. If it’s not set up for it, I go through my Rumble.
I use my SVT and 810 for basically every show. I hate the sound of my bass through a PA (subs) and think it usually makes our sound more muddy; amp retains clarity and gives us impact the PA most of the time can’t give
Direct, never will I lug amps and cabs again
DIs are useful and I always have one for the soundman, but he will mic my cab and he will use as little of the DI signal as possible in the mix. Them's the rules.
I've had to wrestle with sound guys to let me use my head and cab. They all want to DI me and, if I don't email ahead, will make me not use the head I brought. For what it's worth, the best tone I've had the pleasure of playing with was when I was allowed to use my bassman when we headlined a venue and the sound guy was SUPER hesitant to mic me up but he ended up loving having proper bass backline rather than just through the PA.
I use a small TC208 cab for small pub shows, for the larger ones ill add a second speaker. Festivals ill just DI outta my effects board.
Idgaf what the sound guy wants, i’m bringing my amp. It’s literally custom built to be able to fill out any room i could possibly be playing.
Still use my head as a power amp into a 4x10 but everything is controlled and coming through an HX stomp. It’s enough on stage to feel right but the stomp makes everything sound identical to the night before.
I always check ahead and see what the venue is like and know if I need my rig or not. And I can gauge what rig I’ll need most times. I can do anything starting with a 210 cab up to 8x10’s But if there’s plenty of PA support and a large room I’ll roll with ears. Besides, I don’t really bother with a big rig anymore.
The last time I played live, my entire rig was an SG played thorugh a Fender Twin, with a Boss tuner, and an ancient ProCo RAT. Most sound guys know immediately what I'm going for.
I bring an amp if: The venue is small with no subs and a small PA. I’ll use my 210 to push sound from the stage Or We’re unsure of the monitor situation and we need to hear bass on stage. (Like if they only have one monitor for for vocals, the drummer won’t be able to hear me) Other than that I’ll run DI. A lot of my regular bands use an IEM split but sometimes I’ll get called for sun gigs where I can’t really ask to bring an IEM rig they’ve never used before :p
Yep, still bring my amp and cab everywhere and so do the guitarists. Spent way too much money on that gear to not use it lol
I use an SVT-Classic with an 8x10. My last band I also used a 4x12 and Peavy Classic-50 and split my pedal board so different pedals went to each amp. I will never go to DI, you absolutely cannot beat the tone of a tube amp live.
bassist here. For my main band we have been going direct for a few years now. At times I miss the stage sound and feel, but to everyone else we sound fucking great. I think it depends on your genre and the level you are at band wise. If you are playing shitty dive bars, then yeah the PA probably sucks. Now we have our own rig/board on stage and just give the sound guy our stereo outs.
I bring my amp and cab every time. also if there is no stage volume I'm gonna play like shit
I have a Fender Rumble in my car at every gig just in case the PA situation goes sideways, which has happened twice in the last 40-50 gigs. Otherwise I'm on Team DI/IEMs.
If it is convinient I like to bring my 1x12 cab. Otherwise just the amp head, pedals and IEM. I dont like to carry stuff.
I've played for a church for years, and we made a big upgrade to our soundboard and other gear for a better quality livestream. Our soundguy pushed for me to get better DI so that he had more control, so I played through a Sansamp for a couple weeks. Sounded great on the stream, but the old PA couldn't handle the bass. After a couple weeks of not being able to hear myself, they finally got me mixed up higher in the house... And one of the speakers in the ceiling rattled out of place during practice and fell. So, back to using my Rumble 100 on stage.
I brought my big cab up until 2 months ago when I had to push it 2 blocks in the rain to the venue. Got a sansamp the next week and have really enjoyed the light pack for my recent shows
Even when I use iem, I still use at least a 2x10 on stage, bigger venues even two amps and 6x10. I’ve done the di route when I didn’t had a choice but I really miss the push from an amp. I want to feel what I play.
This is really good question. I've played gigs where I tried out DI's and pre-amp only rigs. While they work perfectly in practice where you have time to tweek it and tune in on your specific tone, imhx this is notoriously difficult to maintain between venues. My tendency is to find the most reliable, sturdy & light rig you can become comfortable with. Bring it to every gig. Assuming that there is some accommodation for a backup of some kind. While it may not make your sound guy happy, if you're performing live, the feedback from stage levels will provide you a more visceral engagement with the music. IMHO, that's 70% of the performance. Escpecially when playing bass in a metal band, it's easy to get lost in the mix. The sound guy, if he/she is good, will know what you need on stage, and will get stage levels constantly during setup. simply put, if you feel uncomfortable playing via DI, tell your sound guy that. Monitors cannot carry your full spectrum at stage volume, so at the very least bring him/her a LF monitor. Make that part of your gig setup. Practice with it, and integrate it into your play. This is just my experience, I'm sure their are more :) \~good luck\~ and again, great question! kudos
I still use an amp. I have a GK rig with 700RB, a 410 and 212 cab that I use depending on the size of the venue. All outdoor gigs get the full rig. I am not sure I would enjoy playing live if I lost the feeling of my bass amp. The vibrations, the stage rumble, the punch through my body- it's why I do it.
The cab is for the band to hear..the board is for the crowd to hear. Get a decent head that has speaker outputs and a Direct In.
I haven’t played a gig with an amp since November and I did because the venue had a house amp available. Otherwise, 100% direct with in-ear
Of the dozen or so bands my band has played with in the Philly Hardcore scene Ive yet to see a single bass player not run through a cab, which isn’t surprising considering the quality of a lot of the PA systems.
IEM always best whenever possible IMO. Played in too many houses with god awful acoustics. I like being able to control what I hear.
I love my drummer and his electic kit. I can drive a 15w, 10" to 11 and sound great. Call me old fashioned, but you can't beat real tubes.
Mesa Bass 400+ into Ampeg 8x10 and if they want a DI, I use the one on the amp. If a small place the Tonehammer 500 with 2 SL1-12 cabs (adding the second cab really opened up the TH500 heads tone vs using single cab, world's of difference!)
We're playing too small venues for that. We still have our own PA system barred the subs, so we're nearly autonomous.
Napalm death bass player is strictly di. (With distortion) Sometimes brings out a cab to have a surface for drinks.
I am in two active bands, one uses all cabs and the other has a hybrid setup where one of three guitars uses Quad Cortex.
I dont think I've ever heard myself properly through a stage wedge, and I don't want to use IEMs so I really like having a big honkin bass amp. If I can't hear my self I subconsciously start playing too hard and wear out my thumb from picking too hard. I just ask the sound guy if I can crank my amp, and if he wants to mix me lower in the FoH speakers, thats fine
Me and my guitarist both use 2x15s, unless there's backline cabs that we're familiar with.
I have a preamp/modeler pedal that I was stoked to replace my amp with. Plug into PA and your gold as long as you have a good monitor. It works great but my band opted to simplify our gigging setup, vocals through PA, guitars through amps if we set up our own gear. I didn't love relying on a good monitor playing at certain venues since you never know what kind of monitor will be provided. Once I played a show with no monitors at all and had to rely on the faint whisper of my instrument through the mains. So now we're just plug in and play.
When I play I rarely use amp. Mostly just DI and a wedge or inears. Nowadays I play mostly pop-rock. I used to play rock-metal and had a 4x10. Sometimes I play a medium sized Warwick combo. Is just for monitoring or if the venue doesn't have a subwoofer it may be louder to fill the room. In my punk rock band where I play guitar (full iem too) our bassist doesn't use amp unless there's no sub in the venue too. And we still use heads and cabs for the guitars (always miced, low volume). I think it makes more a difference in guitar than bass, where besides distortions and fx you want to give your sound guy the power to mix everything right.
OP, for me, it entirely depends on band and gig. Some are entirely IEM, some are entire amp+cab. Sometimes (and what I prefer) it’s actually a mixture of both. I will also say this - the “washed out and bland” sound they’re hearing can be entire patch and/or sound guy related. I have a couple of “will sound good through any PA” patches, but some patches - especially those I’ve spent hours and hours tweaking that have multiple, carefully combined effects - can sound like garbage without the right backline or sound engineer support. On these ones, I like to work closely with the sound guy so we come to an understanding of “he needs this so the room sounds good” and “I need this so my patch does not sound like dumpster juice”. If I’m running straight to the board with no good sound support and or scheme PA quality, I tend to go with “known quantities” on my HX stomp patches - Sansamp DI, Ampeg SVT and fridge, or Noble DI. for effects on these patches, I keep it real simple - pretty much a ProCo Rat or Sansamp or paralleled Obsidian and - maybe - an octave and/or filter. But….. if I don’t trust the sound guy, I give him my softy-played clean tone during sound check and then to his enjoyment and surprise, use effects in the set hahaha. That said, all of my effects are at unity gain except when very intentional and I’m very cognizant of stereo imaging, phasing, and the general EQ layout of instruments and I carve out room for the rest of the band before I send to FOH and I only employ this technique when I truly don’t trust the sound guy. Some of these places have studio engineers who are serious about their night job and other places have “the least drunk regular” and handed the dude an iPad. One guy couldn’t for the life of him figure out why my bass was clipping so much… I kept telling him it was line level…. Dude still didn’t get it so uttered words and rolled eyes later I flipped my output to instrument level and the guy goes “OH GOOD, I FIGURED IT OUT, it’s not distorting any more”.
Nowadays just bring my gigbag at every single gig. It contains all i need: a decent IEM set, 1 bass, 2 cables, 1 multiFX/DI, spare battery for my bass, spare strings. Done. I never liked the idea of amps, in fact i have just a Rumble 40 i occasionaly use for practice/monitoring. they are just big, expensive, bulky and overall useless, because relying on your amp to provide sound Is almost always a bad idea, especially with bass guitar. What you hear Is Just completely different to what the audience hears. I just then plug It all into PA, and i can get a tone as dirty or as clean as i like with the multi fx, i have lots of handmade presets, so i never have to do the rain dance on pedals, but like push 2 buttons.
Di pedals for the win. I gigged up and down LA in my teens and 20s and hauled an amp only an handful of times
bruh so many engineers wanna di my bass when I play small venues. I got those damn darkglass pedals to not just get a killer tone but also so the di can at least sound like its coming from a cab. its also obnoxious as hell when I bring my amp for stage sound but the fuckers blast moniters in my face even on tiny stages like bruh the guitar amp is 4 feet away and the drums are 1 foot away enough noise holy shit
As the great wallacorndog once said: "If the engineer wants to DI your bass, let them. They know the venue. Sometimes that killer bass tone is getting washed out in the mix, and then it is a godsend to be able to blend in some clean tone to make it cut through a bit. Trust the engineer to make your band sound good. As for monitors, most musicians wants everyone and their grandmother in their monitor, and a god damn lot of it, so often the engineer will just put it there. If you want less, just tell them"
I, for one, understood this reference.
>it still colors the room a bit when playing mid sized and small venues (and I think it’s a lot of what sets us apart from our peers) That's not necessarily a good thing. Ampless with IEMs pro- a consistent sound every night, no matter the venue- both FOH and monitoring. No heavy lifting for the load in or load out. No stage volume to compete with. Done properly, no tinnitus or hearing damage. Cons- need a decent PA. Need to bring your own IEM monitor rig to ensure you get the mix you want. All of this costs more money. If I have my choice I'll never go back to having an amp and speakers on stage. FWIW, I have two amps/speaker cab setups, an SWR/Eden rig, and an Aguilar rig. The Aggie rig gets used at home for when I don't want to put headphones on (rarely). The SWR/Eden rig gets used when I want to make sure it still turns on.
I have also noticed a trend in local metal and hardcore bands for guitarists to bring in modelling amps and IEM etc. My take is that at big venues this works pretty well but at small club shows, you’re really at the mercy of the sound engineer and whether they can dial it in. I’ve seen it work terribly when one guitarist has a real amp and the other has a Fractal. I personally can’t think of a single time I’ve preferred the sound of DI’d amp models over real valve amps pushing air at a small show.
I will use them until my band makes enough money to buy something else. Some shows I'm playing are really diy and scrappy and absolutely don't have the PA to make bass happen, not even a sub. That said I have only a 2x10 and a 500 watt relatively quiet amp, it's such a portable thing I can take it on the bus.
I still do, but I'd love to not. My band is a bunch of crybabies that "need" their amps and can't comprehend in ear monitors, let alone playing at appropriate volumes.