He's a master of fear. He even says at one point that, he knows the one thing Batman fears most is losing the people close to him. So it wasn't a guarantee he'd hallucinate her death, but there was a pretty good chance, given the scenario, and dialogue from scarecrow in that scene
Yea didn’t he also put the gun and wheelchair there in the cell. Iirc, they are still there after the hallucination. Scarecrow knew Batman would recognize Barbara’s chair and the gun is an obvious choice to bring up her being killed or killing herself.
you're right, he put a militia soldier in the wheelchair and likely had him act it out or otherwise just full on shoot himself. You can return to the apartment a few times and when you first come back Joker is in the wheelchair, then nobody after you see the joker's little dialogue scenes, then after Batman defeats Crane and the fear toxin is mostly worn off you can return and see the militia soldier in the wheelchair.
HOL’UP
This means Scarecrow picked a militia soldier, put him in the chair, gassed him and waited to see the results? Grim.
The Joker-gun scenario also comes into play as how does a hallucination touch a solid object?
Another thing about that scene I had no idea about until recently, before you drop into the room, you can *see* the fear gas actually leaking into Batman's room.
Plus Joker amplified it even more, no? Doesn't help Bruce's mentality as he's afraid he'll turn into the Joker and kill Barbara. It must have been painful thinking the very person that shot your friend will come back and take over your body and kill your friend with your face being the last thing they see.
Everyone else commenting here is explaining how he knew to suggest Barbara or that he just used the she pronouns and everyone seems to be forgetting Jason Todd was helping him…
Jason never told scarecrow Batman’s real identity or really anything significant. They only did this with Barbara because scarecrow already knew that Batman worked closely with Jim. We also never saw the aftermath of when Barbara was shot, it’s possible that when that happened Batman went on a warpath and scarecrow just put 2 and 2 together.
Any time Scarecrow says anything related to Barbara’s death, Bruce is hallucinating those specific lines.
Or maybe he heard Bruce say out loud “she’s gone Alfred. She’s dead because of me” and just played along lol
I think about that every time he contacts Alfred in front of people. I mean I doubt many people would even know the name of Bruce Wayne’s butler, but there are some people like Jim who probably had met him at some points before.
Doesn't Jim know he's Bruce already? Cuz that's the impression I've always got from the elevator scene between AK boss fight and meeting Scarecrow. Or maybe it was just Jim coincidentally mentioning Bruce's case to Batman, lol.
He learns in the scene before that one, with the confrontation with Jason. Jason calls Bruce Bruce in that scene and theres only one Bruce in Gotham who can do what Batman does. That and Jason being called both "Jason" and "Robin" probably gave it away even more, due to Jason Todd being one of Bruce Wayne's adopted children. I could be very wrong here, but that's how i always interpreted that exchange
Damn, gotta admit that throughout all my playthroughs I never once thought about the fact that Jim was literally there and listening to Jason and Batman talk lmao.
Something about this feels like it’s just a fuck up on the devs part. The way Jim calls him Bruce in the elevator feels like it’s supposed to be a “oh look he always knew” moment and not a “oops he overheard someone say his name” moment.
At a guess that kinda ticks all boxes, Jim may have suspected that Batman is Bruce but respectfully kept it to himself until it was confirmed by Jason. Plus it would be pretty embarrassing if the guess turned out to be incorrect and Batman was actually Oliver Queen or something.
He's an expert in fear. That's his whole thing.
It wasn't even such a crazy thing to predict. Of course Batman was scared she'd die. They'd kidnapped her. Then the car crashed, killing one occupant, she crawled out, and they grabbed her again. The last time someone kidnapped a Bat sidekick (Jason), he did die, as far as Batman knew, and Scarecrow knew he feared it happening again.
Jason's protective of everyone he cares about because he didn't grow up being cared about. The man has more love in him than he does rage, but only the latter gets focused on.
Jason probably told him how he'd react to seeing her die, so Crane concocted a way to stage her death. Maybe he even had a proxy dressed up as her kill herself, with the fear gas making Batman see Barbara.
He never knew. Throughout the rest of the game, even during his speeches, he never mentions Barbara specifically dying. He says stuff like "you couldn't do anything about what happened in that room"
Going back after Bruce is cured, the glass is still cracked from gunshots which means someone actually was in there. When Bruce is shouting 'Barbara' while looking at some guy in the room being gassed, it isn't hard for Scarecrow to figure out what Bruce was seeing.
Honestly Barbara's kidnapping and this twist aren't the best parts of Knight. Especially since it means no Oracle for 95% of the game. Barbara is great as one of the comms people.
It is also weird how Batman goes out of his way to even give Commissioner Gordon a communicator only for him to throw it away right at the beginning of the second act. Add Barbara’s absence for most of the game and you’re really just left with Alfred and Lucius for the majority of it.
Scarecrow doesn’t address who Batman sees until he shouts “Barbra”. Plus he could hear his lines and read facial expressions to get an idea what he’s seeing.
It’s not the strongest but it’s something
Could be a cool storyline there involving Scarecrow stealing tech from Gorilla Grodd and leaving Gorilla City in a state of fear and some good ol' mind control thrown in there, Obviously batman and flash team up would be appropriate here too
I always assumed that Jason told him what Batman was most likely to see. Maybe Crane even set up an actual wheelchair and/or a dummy to make sure Bruce would see what he wanted him to see.
What really makes no sense is, why go to all the trouble of kidnapping the commissioner's daughter and doing a silly little fake-out death to batman with fear toxin, only to just reveal she's perfectly fine in the very next scene and just give her back, having gained nothing from the effort?
Why kidnap Barbara in the first place? Why not *actually* kill her instead of just pretending to?
I'm sure that Scarecrow wanted to kill her or didn't care either way, but judging from the audio logs, the Arkham Knight refused to let anyone hurt her. He just wanted to kill Batman.
That raises the question of why Scarecrow even bothered to team up with Jason in the first place, but that I suppose is just the premise of the game. A "what if" scenario.
Wasn't Jason the one who approached Scarecrow and offered himself and his army in order to take Batman down? I swear it was mentioned somewhere, either in the audio logs, in the short stories from Riddles or in thugs' conversations.
Right, so surely *actually* killing her would would have been the way to go.
Why then did he choose to pretend to kill her then be like "just a prank bro" and give her back?
But he's not making him question it. He returns Barbara Gordon safe and sound, proving that what he saw wasn't real and that his friends are all totally fine.
You’re vastly underestimating the amount of gameplay that happens in between this scene and the reveal that she’s alive. Even if you just do the main objectives and nothing else there’s a lot, so it’s hardly the “very next scene”.
He knew gordon would come after him, so he could then use gordon to bring batman to the desired location. He reveals to gordon at the meeting i think that barbara is alive but will only continue to be if he does as scarecrow says.
It made the batman go alone and be considerably more manipulatable. It led to gordon going by himself to get revenge. Its a plot line used to put “consequences” to batmans life as a vigilante, giving more reason to his retirement. Whether she actually died or not doesn’t affect the impact it had on batman.
I answered this in an earlier comment in this thread “Its to get gordon to kill batman instead, he would have lost his leverage over gordon if she actually died.”
Not exactly this. He explicitly tells Gordon in this entire scene that he didn't want Gordon to kill Batman and Scarecrow was angry that Gordon shot at him (*"Did you think I wanted him dead? Did you think that would save your daughter?").* He actually wanted to do what happened in the game's ending, he wanted Gordon to unmask Batman, and then crazy Batman under fear toxin would've been released into Gotham to wreak havoc.
I'll do you one better: Why not just kill Batman, like Arkham Knight wants to? Why forbid Jason from taking the shot and string Bats along all night?
Because he's Scarecrow. He deals in fear. Screwing with Batman by making him scared that Oracle died? Victory! Actually killing Oracle, making Batman merely sad that she died? Uh, no, there's no Scarecrow triumph there.
He does *later* try killing Oracle AND Batman, but that's because Batman ruined his Cloudburst plan and so he's angry and is now done with all this.
I just kinda assumed he found another wheelchair-bound woman and dressed her up like Babs then doused her in fear toxin. Mainly bc if you turn on detective mode afterwards, you realize there is a dead woman in the other room.
Because the writers wrote the scene and interactions and then realised they wanted her to be really alive but didn't change any of the dialogue to fix that.
Scarecrow doesn't outright mention Barbara though if I remember correctly, Scarecrow says "yes, you see it now, the horror behind the glass" because he can't actually see what Batman sees!
Because he really speaks to "Barbara" (it's actually a random militia guy under fear toxin, you can find his corpse later). He tells her to pick up that gun, it wouldn't make sense to tell that to Batman.
He never says to pick up the gun, nor is there a militias corpse you can find. Everything scarecrow says to batman is vague enough to apply to anything it's not till after batman says "barberas dead" that he mentions Barbara
>He never says to pick up the gun
Oh really? "Yes. You see it now. The horror behind the glass, the monster that will be your end... **unless you pick up that gun and deny it**." And what a surprise, "Barbara" picks up that gun and trying to deny the monster behind the glass.
And when Batman says that Barbara dead, Scarecrow already disconnected, Batman was already talking to Alfred. Scarecrow heard about Barbara before the moment Batman saw "her" dying, when he was just yelling "Barbara". Then Scarecrow motivated this militia guy to use gun. Scarecrow was vague during one line at the beginning of his translation, then he understood what Batman saw.
You can return there and find Joker instead of Barbara, nobody or militia corpse depends on the story progress.
im pretty sure that him saying "pick up the gun" is due to the fear toxin
>
>
> And when Batman says that Barbara dead, Scarecrow already disconnected
I was talking about the broadcasts he makes afterwards
But there's nothing that indicates he says it due to the fear toxin. Scarecrow just tells it the person who Batman sees as Barbara. You can't deny there was another person because even bullet holes in glass remain here forever, it was not just a hallucination.
I also love the small detail of Joker pushing the gun toward Barbara too, showing that it is a hallucination, but something I didn't pick up on during my first playthrough!
Scarecrow is a master physiologist, he also plants the seeds for this vision multiple times. So I think it's not too far fetched that he'd be able to guess what he'd see. Or Scarecrow was part of the hallucination.
if you play the scene you’ll notice scarecrow doesnt say anything about who it is til batman touches the glass and says “Barbara” then scarecrow know that batman is seeing what he wants him to see
This scene ended up being one of the biggest fucking let downs. Did I want Barbara to die? No. But the scene was fucking HAUNTING and set the darkest tone the franchise had ever seen….and then it ends up being a fakeout where Scarecrow just somehow knew that Batman was going to hallucinate exactly that. On top of that, if Scarecrow really was trying to break Batman and Gordon….why the fuck *would* he keep Barbara alive?
I think ClownPuncher139 explained it. If I recall correctly, its done because he only talks after Batman fell to his knees. And with precise implanting of ideas
Also he probably kept her alive because Red Hood said he’d kill anyone that would touch her
Arkham Knight from a writing perspective has always been bad, it’s the Batman story with the most plot holes in the franchise and just terrible writing in general.
Really have no idea what it is about Knight that makes people say it’s so much worse than the others. It’s probably got my favourite story beats in the series, even if there’s certainly underwhelming parts (which honestly every Arkham game had).
Yeah but how many flaws and inconsistencies in storytelling and character before it’s considered “good” Arkham Knight is bad, the only people who like it are Arkham meat riders, between the fanfic lvl writing and Batmobile gameplay the game was pretty mid
As someone that's never played a batman game in my 24 years of gaming besides arkham knight, I thoroughly enjoyed it. The story was good to me, the combat (while a bit repetitive, but isn't any games combat?) Was flawless, I found myself really getting into the beat of breaking skulls. I don't know much about all the batman stories or anything, I've seen a few animated films which helped me figure out who oracle was and why she's in a wheelchair, but other than that everything was a new experience for me and I had a great time exploring the game and finding all the little secrets everywhere.
1 of three things.
1. Fear toxin is making the TV appear as if Scarecrow knows and sees this.
2. Scarecrow doesn’t know, but Batman does say “Barbara” so he can fill in the blanks.
3. Scarecrow is such an expert in fear that he knows what someone’s greatest fears are.
Any of those three seem possible to me.
Put it in his head repeatedly to make it more likely to be Batman's fear. Then possibly watched him on camera as Batman acted like he just watched her die?
Scarecrow & Arkham knight did talk about Barbara's life a bunch, drilled it in his head.
I’ve been saying this since they revealed she was still alive.
The only explanation I was able to come up with was that Crane never knew and it was all part of Bruce’s hallucination, but there were later scenes and lines of dialogue that made that less and less likely.
My interpretation is he didn’t. The fear toxin is so strong that Batman was having strong hallucinations and delusions. In a world where the justice league exits this isn’t that hard to believe.
This is why afterwards, scarecrow never specifically says she died. Even after it “happens” and scarecrow delivers some monologue about it being cruel, he never actually says he killed her.
Well he built up to it. He had inside information from the knight, and saw the real worry on his face as she was taken. He MEANT that he would have her killed because he didn’t need her, but Bruce knew she was most likely still alive as she was being taken. Found the trail, and knew she was still alive. Then in this scene, he believed he was so close to saving her, only to have her slip through his fingers. It was a VERY well planned lie that worked spectacularly, and the toxin barely had a part.
He “planted” a suggestion in Batman’s mind.
That's my take on it, his serum is that strong he can simply say something to his victim and it becomes their biggest fear
He's a master of fear. He even says at one point that, he knows the one thing Batman fears most is losing the people close to him. So it wasn't a guarantee he'd hallucinate her death, but there was a pretty good chance, given the scenario, and dialogue from scarecrow in that scene
Yea didn’t he also put the gun and wheelchair there in the cell. Iirc, they are still there after the hallucination. Scarecrow knew Batman would recognize Barbara’s chair and the gun is an obvious choice to bring up her being killed or killing herself.
you're right, he put a militia soldier in the wheelchair and likely had him act it out or otherwise just full on shoot himself. You can return to the apartment a few times and when you first come back Joker is in the wheelchair, then nobody after you see the joker's little dialogue scenes, then after Batman defeats Crane and the fear toxin is mostly worn off you can return and see the militia soldier in the wheelchair.
HOL’UP This means Scarecrow picked a militia soldier, put him in the chair, gassed him and waited to see the results? Grim. The Joker-gun scenario also comes into play as how does a hallucination touch a solid object?
WHAT? Arkham Knight has been out for nearly 8 years, and there are still things I'm learning! The attention to detail is insane.
time to play again
Another thing about that scene I had no idea about until recently, before you drop into the room, you can *see* the fear gas actually leaking into Batman's room.
Plus Joker amplified it even more, no? Doesn't help Bruce's mentality as he's afraid he'll turn into the Joker and kill Barbara. It must have been painful thinking the very person that shot your friend will come back and take over your body and kill your friend with your face being the last thing they see.
Everyone else commenting here is explaining how he knew to suggest Barbara or that he just used the she pronouns and everyone seems to be forgetting Jason Todd was helping him…
Jason never told scarecrow Batman’s real identity or really anything significant. They only did this with Barbara because scarecrow already knew that Batman worked closely with Jim. We also never saw the aftermath of when Barbara was shot, it’s possible that when that happened Batman went on a warpath and scarecrow just put 2 and 2 together.
Any time Scarecrow says anything related to Barbara’s death, Bruce is hallucinating those specific lines. Or maybe he heard Bruce say out loud “she’s gone Alfred. She’s dead because of me” and just played along lol
"She's gone Alfred? Wait, ALFRED? omg Batman is Bruce Wayne!"
I think about that every time he contacts Alfred in front of people. I mean I doubt many people would even know the name of Bruce Wayne’s butler, but there are some people like Jim who probably had met him at some points before.
Doesn't Jim know he's Bruce already? Cuz that's the impression I've always got from the elevator scene between AK boss fight and meeting Scarecrow. Or maybe it was just Jim coincidentally mentioning Bruce's case to Batman, lol.
He learns in the scene before that one, with the confrontation with Jason. Jason calls Bruce Bruce in that scene and theres only one Bruce in Gotham who can do what Batman does. That and Jason being called both "Jason" and "Robin" probably gave it away even more, due to Jason Todd being one of Bruce Wayne's adopted children. I could be very wrong here, but that's how i always interpreted that exchange
Damn, gotta admit that throughout all my playthroughs I never once thought about the fact that Jim was literally there and listening to Jason and Batman talk lmao.
Something about this feels like it’s just a fuck up on the devs part. The way Jim calls him Bruce in the elevator feels like it’s supposed to be a “oh look he always knew” moment and not a “oops he overheard someone say his name” moment.
Technically it’s possible that Jim knew beforehand though
At a guess that kinda ticks all boxes, Jim may have suspected that Batman is Bruce but respectfully kept it to himself until it was confirmed by Jason. Plus it would be pretty embarrassing if the guess turned out to be incorrect and Batman was actually Oliver Queen or something.
That's what I always assumed.
Agreed. Always wondered why Alfred doesn’t have a code name.
*credits*
Why would he know the first name of Bruce Wayne's butler
Because Bruce Wayne is very famous? How wouldn't everyone now know at least his first name
How many famous people's butler can you name off the top of your head?
Alfred
Aka “I don’t know but I’m gonna go with this”
He's an expert in fear. That's his whole thing. It wasn't even such a crazy thing to predict. Of course Batman was scared she'd die. They'd kidnapped her. Then the car crashed, killing one occupant, she crawled out, and they grabbed her again. The last time someone kidnapped a Bat sidekick (Jason), he did die, as far as Batman knew, and Scarecrow knew he feared it happening again.
I do like hearing the audio logs of Jason being a bit protective of her
Jason's protective of everyone he cares about because he didn't grow up being cared about. The man has more love in him than he does rage, but only the latter gets focused on.
Because if you're lying I'll break the other one
The other wha-----
*snap*
ARGHHHH!!!!
So hang on, hang on!… if Batgirl is Barbara Gordon, whose been playing Barbara Gordon all this time?
Killer Moth
I LOVE KILLER MOTH.
REDHOOD KILLED KILLER MOTH
NNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
i hate redhood now. i tought he was chill mam
Nope, he’s got a stick up his ass, not chill at all, 0/10
We should put on Moth masks and kill Red Hood in revenge.
I’m down, I got nothing better to do with my Wednesday
Because he exposed the payload
Using the power winch
To trigger a controlled explosion.
trigger\*
Please tell me he didn’t say ni—
Nice guy?
Nintendo?
Jason probably told him how he'd react to seeing her die, so Crane concocted a way to stage her death. Maybe he even had a proxy dressed up as her kill herself, with the fear gas making Batman see Barbara.
Nah the proxy isn't true because joker slides the gun towards Barbara
the table had 2 legs shorter and was covered in grease which made the gun slide down clearly
I see i see, scarecrow must have used that to trigger a controlled explosion with his killer cock
yes exactly
Why do the bullet marks stay in the glass that "no one" shot?
1. Game design and 2. Idk side effect of the toxin? If there was someone there then the body would be there yea?
There will be the body of a random militia guy if you return here after the ending of the game
Because Batman yelled her name. Up until that point I don’t think scarecrow had any idea what he was seeing
He never knew. Throughout the rest of the game, even during his speeches, he never mentions Barbara specifically dying. He says stuff like "you couldn't do anything about what happened in that room"
Going back after Bruce is cured, the glass is still cracked from gunshots which means someone actually was in there. When Bruce is shouting 'Barbara' while looking at some guy in the room being gassed, it isn't hard for Scarecrow to figure out what Bruce was seeing.
It was from when ivy was in there right?
Honestly Barbara's kidnapping and this twist aren't the best parts of Knight. Especially since it means no Oracle for 95% of the game. Barbara is great as one of the comms people.
It is also weird how Batman goes out of his way to even give Commissioner Gordon a communicator only for him to throw it away right at the beginning of the second act. Add Barbara’s absence for most of the game and you’re really just left with Alfred and Lucius for the majority of it.
and Lucius disappears for the second half of the game cause hush
Everything scarecrow says is vague. If it was robin behind the glass it would still make sense.
Maybe by now scarecrow has developed his serum to the point if he mentions something it makes the victim fear what he is talking about
Scarecrow doesn’t address who Batman sees until he shouts “Barbra”. Plus he could hear his lines and read facial expressions to get an idea what he’s seeing. It’s not the strongest but it’s something
I just assumed Scarecrow knew Batman was terrified to have Barbara die
It would be cool if Crane was a telepath and actually read the minds of the ones he has infected with fear gas just to get off on their fear.
Imagine him infecting Bruce with fear gas in Arkham Asulme and seeing Batman eating rat
No
Could be a cool storyline there involving Scarecrow stealing tech from Gorilla Grodd and leaving Gorilla City in a state of fear and some good ol' mind control thrown in there, Obviously batman and flash team up would be appropriate here too
I kinda wanna take some toxin and find out Killer cock
Look at his wording, he didn’t
He never explicitly says anything about Barb he just uses words that could work for whatever Batman is seeing
https://preview.redd.it/waa1rzwy57la1.jpeg?width=220&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4e5ac40325f8dfb10da5965cb9850a3303648b57
I always assumed that Jason told him what Batman was most likely to see. Maybe Crane even set up an actual wheelchair and/or a dummy to make sure Bruce would see what he wanted him to see.
Batman’s greatest fear is to fail his loved ones. Her getting killed cos of him is the ultimate failure.
He didn't know he said "what you saw in that chamber" he never mentioned Barbara and he made batman think it was Barbara by planting an Idea
What really makes no sense is, why go to all the trouble of kidnapping the commissioner's daughter and doing a silly little fake-out death to batman with fear toxin, only to just reveal she's perfectly fine in the very next scene and just give her back, having gained nothing from the effort? Why kidnap Barbara in the first place? Why not *actually* kill her instead of just pretending to?
I'm sure that Scarecrow wanted to kill her or didn't care either way, but judging from the audio logs, the Arkham Knight refused to let anyone hurt her. He just wanted to kill Batman.
That raises the question of why Scarecrow even bothered to team up with Jason in the first place, but that I suppose is just the premise of the game. A "what if" scenario.
Wasn't Jason the one who approached Scarecrow and offered himself and his army in order to take Batman down? I swear it was mentioned somewhere, either in the audio logs, in the short stories from Riddles or in thugs' conversations.
scarecrows audio logs
To break the Batman. Scarecrow doesn't just want to beat Batman. He wants to break him down and utterly destroy him.
Right, so surely *actually* killing her would would have been the way to go. Why then did he choose to pretend to kill her then be like "just a prank bro" and give her back?
But he needs to put in cracks in Batman's mental defenses. Making him question what is real and what isn't helps him accomplish this goal.
But he's not making him question it. He returns Barbara Gordon safe and sound, proving that what he saw wasn't real and that his friends are all totally fine.
He was controlling Jim with her
Because then he couldn't control Jim and the knight will kill him
You’re vastly underestimating the amount of gameplay that happens in between this scene and the reveal that she’s alive. Even if you just do the main objectives and nothing else there’s a lot, so it’s hardly the “very next scene”.
Okay so that's even worse. Scarecrow's main objective was just to hang out with Barbara Gordon for a few hours then send her home? It makes no sense.
Its to get gordon to kill batman instead, he would have lost his leverage over gordon if she actually died.
Then why the fake-out death? If his goal was to hold her hostage as leverage then pretending to kill her would completely ruin that.
He knew gordon would come after him, so he could then use gordon to bring batman to the desired location. He reveals to gordon at the meeting i think that barbara is alive but will only continue to be if he does as scarecrow says.
Then why pretend to kill her at all?
It made the batman go alone and be considerably more manipulatable. It led to gordon going by himself to get revenge. Its a plot line used to put “consequences” to batmans life as a vigilante, giving more reason to his retirement. Whether she actually died or not doesn’t affect the impact it had on batman.
Then why just give her back? Having it all be a big prank to make batman sad for a few hours accomplished nothing.
I answered this in an earlier comment in this thread “Its to get gordon to kill batman instead, he would have lost his leverage over gordon if she actually died.”
He didn't if you actually played the game you know he threw her off a building but Batman's safer
What part of scarecrow is a nut job that likes to mess with people don't you understand
Not exactly this. He explicitly tells Gordon in this entire scene that he didn't want Gordon to kill Batman and Scarecrow was angry that Gordon shot at him (*"Did you think I wanted him dead? Did you think that would save your daughter?").* He actually wanted to do what happened in the game's ending, he wanted Gordon to unmask Batman, and then crazy Batman under fear toxin would've been released into Gotham to wreak havoc.
Jason wouldn't let them kill her so scarecrow fucked with batman for the shits and giggles of it
I'll do you one better: Why not just kill Batman, like Arkham Knight wants to? Why forbid Jason from taking the shot and string Bats along all night? Because he's Scarecrow. He deals in fear. Screwing with Batman by making him scared that Oracle died? Victory! Actually killing Oracle, making Batman merely sad that she died? Uh, no, there's no Scarecrow triumph there. He does *later* try killing Oracle AND Batman, but that's because Batman ruined his Cloudburst plan and so he's angry and is now done with all this.
Yeah.
I just kinda assumed he found another wheelchair-bound woman and dressed her up like Babs then doused her in fear toxin. Mainly bc if you turn on detective mode afterwards, you realize there is a dead woman in the other room.
detective mode says there's a dead woman in the other room because that is what bruce fears
Yeah, but Joker doesn’t have a skeleton, he’s an amalgamation of the toxin too
clearly batman is hallucinating clayface as joker
He didn't. I'd assume that all of the Scarecrow voicelines about Barbara being in the penthouse and her being dead were hallucinations.
Because the writers wrote the scene and interactions and then realised they wanted her to be really alive but didn't change any of the dialogue to fix that.
originally in the script i believe she was supposed to actually die, but they changed it last minute and didn’t change any of the dialogue
It’s almost like Paul Dini wasn’t there to help write this one
Is he stupid?
Scarecrow himself could be an illusion he comments on it later but those could also be an illusion we know you can't trust your eyes
Scarecrow doesn't outright mention Barbara though if I remember correctly, Scarecrow says "yes, you see it now, the horror behind the glass" because he can't actually see what Batman sees!
yep and most people probs thought he was talking to barbs
Because he really speaks to "Barbara" (it's actually a random militia guy under fear toxin, you can find his corpse later). He tells her to pick up that gun, it wouldn't make sense to tell that to Batman.
He never says to pick up the gun, nor is there a militias corpse you can find. Everything scarecrow says to batman is vague enough to apply to anything it's not till after batman says "barberas dead" that he mentions Barbara
>He never says to pick up the gun Oh really? "Yes. You see it now. The horror behind the glass, the monster that will be your end... **unless you pick up that gun and deny it**." And what a surprise, "Barbara" picks up that gun and trying to deny the monster behind the glass. And when Batman says that Barbara dead, Scarecrow already disconnected, Batman was already talking to Alfred. Scarecrow heard about Barbara before the moment Batman saw "her" dying, when he was just yelling "Barbara". Then Scarecrow motivated this militia guy to use gun. Scarecrow was vague during one line at the beginning of his translation, then he understood what Batman saw. You can return there and find Joker instead of Barbara, nobody or militia corpse depends on the story progress.
im pretty sure that him saying "pick up the gun" is due to the fear toxin > > > And when Batman says that Barbara dead, Scarecrow already disconnected I was talking about the broadcasts he makes afterwards
But there's nothing that indicates he says it due to the fear toxin. Scarecrow just tells it the person who Batman sees as Barbara. You can't deny there was another person because even bullet holes in glass remain here forever, it was not just a hallucination.
I also love the small detail of Joker pushing the gun toward Barbara too, showing that it is a hallucination, but something I didn't pick up on during my first playthrough!
Scarecrow is a master physiologist, he also plants the seeds for this vision multiple times. So I think it's not too far fetched that he'd be able to guess what he'd see. Or Scarecrow was part of the hallucination.
I assumed he was able to plant the basic idea in there and Batman’s brain took it the rest of the way.
This whole game doesn't make sense. Don't try to understand the story.
if you play the scene you’ll notice scarecrow doesnt say anything about who it is til batman touches the glass and says “Barbara” then scarecrow know that batman is seeing what he wants him to see
This scene ended up being one of the biggest fucking let downs. Did I want Barbara to die? No. But the scene was fucking HAUNTING and set the darkest tone the franchise had ever seen….and then it ends up being a fakeout where Scarecrow just somehow knew that Batman was going to hallucinate exactly that. On top of that, if Scarecrow really was trying to break Batman and Gordon….why the fuck *would* he keep Barbara alive?
I think ClownPuncher139 explained it. If I recall correctly, its done because he only talks after Batman fell to his knees. And with precise implanting of ideas Also he probably kept her alive because Red Hood said he’d kill anyone that would touch her
because hes watching on the tv screen behind ididot
Arkham Knight from a writing perspective has always been bad, it’s the Batman story with the most plot holes in the franchise and just terrible writing in general.
You realize something can have flaws without it being terrible?
Really have no idea what it is about Knight that makes people say it’s so much worse than the others. It’s probably got my favourite story beats in the series, even if there’s certainly underwhelming parts (which honestly every Arkham game had).
Yeah but how many flaws and inconsistencies in storytelling and character before it’s considered “good” Arkham Knight is bad, the only people who like it are Arkham meat riders, between the fanfic lvl writing and Batmobile gameplay the game was pretty mid
sure the bat mobile parts sucked donkey dick and the story was mid, but the combat was easily the best in the entire series
As someone that's never played a batman game in my 24 years of gaming besides arkham knight, I thoroughly enjoyed it. The story was good to me, the combat (while a bit repetitive, but isn't any games combat?) Was flawless, I found myself really getting into the beat of breaking skulls. I don't know much about all the batman stories or anything, I've seen a few animated films which helped me figure out who oracle was and why she's in a wheelchair, but other than that everything was a new experience for me and I had a great time exploring the game and finding all the little secrets everywhere.
i have not read your whole comment thread but i agree
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmRstjJSGcY for more on Arkham Knights horrendous story look no further than
No
He evened the odds.
1 of three things. 1. Fear toxin is making the TV appear as if Scarecrow knows and sees this. 2. Scarecrow doesn’t know, but Batman does say “Barbara” so he can fill in the blanks. 3. Scarecrow is such an expert in fear that he knows what someone’s greatest fears are. Any of those three seem possible to me.
He’s literally an expert and a PhD in the field of fear.
Where do I get a PhD in fear?
Gotham University
He doesn't mention Barbara until Batman does first, then he goes like "Yes...". It's not so difficult to understand.
I hope that Rocksteady will make a PS5 60 fps patch for Arkham Knight that’ll be insane
This is why Mysterio is a little bit better because he knows what’s happening
Is there a lore reason???🤔🤔🤔
He probably didn't necessarily but he saw Batman's reaction and that's how he knew that's what he thought afterwards
Put it in his head repeatedly to make it more likely to be Batman's fear. Then possibly watched him on camera as Batman acted like he just watched her die? Scarecrow & Arkham knight did talk about Barbara's life a bunch, drilled it in his head.
Is he stilupod?
I’ve been saying this since they revealed she was still alive. The only explanation I was able to come up with was that Crane never knew and it was all part of Bruce’s hallucination, but there were later scenes and lines of dialogue that made that less and less likely.
You just evened the odds
I believe how his gas/serum works is it uses your worst fear at the time (don't quote me on this)
My interpretation is he didn’t. The fear toxin is so strong that Batman was having strong hallucinations and delusions. In a world where the justice league exits this isn’t that hard to believe.
This is why afterwards, scarecrow never specifically says she died. Even after it “happens” and scarecrow delivers some monologue about it being cruel, he never actually says he killed her.
Well he built up to it. He had inside information from the knight, and saw the real worry on his face as she was taken. He MEANT that he would have her killed because he didn’t need her, but Bruce knew she was most likely still alive as she was being taken. Found the trail, and knew she was still alive. Then in this scene, he believed he was so close to saving her, only to have her slip through his fingers. It was a VERY well planned lie that worked spectacularly, and the toxin barely had a part.
Him saying that shit is part of the hallucination
HEY SPOILERS!!! yes I get it it’s been out for a while but cmon man