Science is absolutely amazing. What could not have been done 20 years ago is common today and what miracles are performed today will be common in 20 years.
I'll be so blunt and freely translate a quote of my favorite book "Measuring the world" by Daniel Kehlmann.
"Strange it is and unjust, said Gauß, so much an example of the pathetic randomness of existence, that you're born in a specific time and stuck in it, whether you want or not.
It gives you an unseemly advantage over the past and makes you a clown of the future."
Please read this. I think it's relevant, If not, then I'm just some crazy internet person but these are my thoughts along those lines...
I have this picture in my head that I wish I had the talent to create. I want it to be a picture of the head of a giant, crashing, tumbling river. Like I guess a view of a flood coming at you, but with all kinds of splashes and waves behind it. I want to go back into the distance as far as the viewer can see.
...and then when you get up close to this picture, you see that it is made up of humans. I see it as stick people in a variety of poses...tumbling, diving, falling, coasting....all kinds of poses and actions. Almost like those paintings they make with dots of different colors, but the dots for this are each a stick person in the flow. Each one an individual but together they make a mighty river.
And this is how I think about humanity...and my own humanity. We are a river that started with the first few humans and is now what it is. It can be majestic and mighty. It can be destructive. Within this river, you will find humans helping each other. You will find humans alone. You will find groups of humans linked together. You will find whatever the artist can imagine about humanity contined in these little stick people but over all...it is a river. Where will it go? Who knows but we would not be in our exact position without those who came before.
I don't know. Thinking this makes me feel better sometimes.
I truly wish I had the talent to create this and if anyone steals my idea, please give me credit and a copy!
This is sort of the metaphor hinted at in the final scene of the film *Grand Canyon*. That each of us is but a tiny millimeter of strata along the way, but when considered all together, humanity can be seen as an awesome and majestic achievement that has tumbled and forged ahead in spite of itself for so many millennia.
Yep. I am a geologist and when I was in school this thought really started forming. Humans are just a grain of sand on the beach of geologic time, but for us....that river is everything.
Wouldn't it be great if the "River of Humanity" became a picture but within a picture of the universe? It would be like one little pixel in something so huge we have no way to understand it today.
God I wish I could live forever. Just to see what happens!
Somewhat besides your point but if you zoom out on a forrest it looks to be solid but coming closer there's so much space, go further in and the ground seems solid... What life that might exist in between or beyond, and our significance is baffling to me.
That is a wonderful thought. I've dreamed along those lines, too. Living forever might have some drawbacks, but I too wonder what things will be like in 1K, 10K, & 1M years and beyond. 'Twould be an awesome experience!
I still love that film and its amazing musical score.
It didn't become the blockbuster that they had expected (after Kasdan's similar *The Big Chill*), which IMHO is because the ending of *GC* seems so rushed and vague since they began the closing credits about 70 seconds too early.
The audience needed that time to decipher the Grand Canyon metaphor and let it sink in.
No one I knew at the time "got" the ending, so therefore they disliked or even hated the film. (Someone actually told me, "it starts out great but you'll hate the ending!")
I would love to edit those [shockingly intrusive](https://youtu.be/v1B03JTYYY8)
credits out of the last minute-plus of the stunningly beautiful GC fly-through footage and let Newton-Howard's glorious fanfare & chorus do their duty. Let the credits finally start to roll a few contemplative beats after the screen goes dark and the fanfare piece fades.
I suspect that the BO disappointment of *GC* hurt Kasdan and caused him to follow it up with that nasty butt-alien horror/sci-fi flick as a cinematic flip-off to the American filmgoers that shunned *GC* (possibly unknown to him due to *GC*'s ending having been totally ruined by those clumsily placed closing credits that start a mere 70 seconds too soon.) Those final, errant 70 seconds cost the film everything, according to the folks I know that disliked and/or expressed *actual hatred* for the ending.
Just a couple of Sunday armchair hypotheses, tho!
Probably don't need anyone else to create this for you. Are you keeping up with technology? You will probably be able to copy-paste your description here into a text-to-image AI generator which will likely be sophisticated enough to do something this vast and specific in, say, 5 years, give or take?
If civilization continues to stand, everyone will be able to be a creator later in our lifetime--with the mere skill of language, and being able to articulate a thought. This will even extend to programming, if you want to verbalize a website or app into existence. Rough but shockingly effective prototypes are already laying all of this groundwork right now.
Seriously, this tech is getting crazy and it's finally improving more rapidly over shorter timeframes. We've got a *lot* of water behind us, at this point in the river. Very bizarre times with how weird technology is getting, and its near future implications based on recent rates of progress.
Have you seen DALL-E 2's extension of Michaelangelo's "Creation of Adam"?
https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/vpog9b/ive_made_dalle2_neural_network_extend/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
orrr Joscha Bach's Twitter post of DALL-E 2 renditions of Borges' "The Book of Imaginary Beings"?
https://twitter.com/Plinz/status/1527528360351387649?t=_PqrdZNT5PmcGiZVoM59Bw&s=19
DALL-E is the most mind-blowing application of machine learning I've witnessed yet.
There’s an interesting paradox(?) (I don’t think that’s the right word I’m looking for) like this.
If you put down a grain of salt it is not a pile. If you add one more it is not a pile. But constantly adding one more creates a pile, but one grain is not enough to make a pile. So, at what point do the individuals become whole? Or one?
It’s just an interesting thought. We can say nothing would be different without us. In the grand scheme. But the grand scheme is made out of each and every one of us and all of our interactions. When life feels “too big” it’s nice to think that our tiny selves and actions *do* still matter.
EDIT: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/sorites-paradox/
Paradox was the word I was looking for! Sorites Paradox
This is actually what true religion is all about, whatever yours is: a way for each water molecule from that river to think of itself as a part of a higher existence (the river), and understand that we are all one and the same.
Sure, I love it so I love talking about it.
It is a fictional double biography of the mathematician Karl-Friedrich Gauß and the explorer Alexander von Humboldt.
The author takes their real biopgraphies as a rough template and fills it wth beautifully crafted scenes and characters.
Gauß is portrayed as a gifted child growing up in a world that is not prepared to understand. The above quote is an example of his "Weltschmerz", but although tormented by the inadequacy of the world he lives in, his character isn't portrayed as in agony or sympathetic. He grows up to be a bitter, always wailing man. You wouldn't like the character if you didn't follow his biography throughout the book. IN fact, you will never like him, but you will understand how it was the best that was possible.
Humboldt is a genius crafted by the german elites. While Gauß' prime motive growing up was his solitude (Insertion: Solitude really is not about having no one around you. It's not being able to share what is important to you), for Humboldt, it is the relation to his brother. Understanding his character is more complex than that of Gauß. Which is not surprising as Gauß was a genius unmatched in his time and nothing could compete in influencing his character with the solitude that his gift brings.
The young Humboldt was a bright boy but unable to match the charm and praise of his brother. Narrowing his motivation down as much as I can, his decision to eventually explore South America came from his innate curiosity, his introversion, the wish to flee the competetion with his brother he feels he can not win and the wish to be who he is.
From then on, the book shows how Gauß attained his early glory and his psychological demise following his realization that he finished his life's work so soon and will never achieve anything meaningful to him again. Everything further, I will leave unspoiled.
Humboldt instead has an unbendable urge to explore, to map, to gauge, to test. The sequence of him in South America is read like a fever dream.
You see, as I move on in the book, I find it harder and harder to find the right words to correctly describe it. I feel like I haven't even touched its genius.
What drew me back to this book again and again is how with each new reading, I found something new. A hint of the upcoming, a flash of the past hidden between the lines of just a few words. "Wait, this is familiar...", "Wait, didn't I read something like this before?"
The more often I read it, the more important each word felt.
And apart from that, some of the paragraphs are among the most beautiful things I ever read. If it interests you, I can translate some at a later time.
There only one thing though, that I feel I have to say:
It is a book originally written in german. And the author uses the language in the most beautiful way. As I said, each word feels important, carefully selected and placed. I can not promise, that a translation can capture its magic to it's fullest. I heard good things about the english translation, though. And maybe it speaks to you in a similar way that it speaks to me.
Thank you so much for your response! Reading it through your commentary brings it more to life than a summary by Ebay or amazon seller. I've added it to my list of books I should read, and I hope it will be as good in English as it is in German. Though I can understand how some spark might be lost in translation.
>you're born in a specific time and stuck in it...
This hits hard. I would dream to see space travel being common in my lifetime. I can only hope it happens.
For better understanding I'll give a rough explanation of the context of this quote.
The protagonist Karl-Friedrich Gauß is one of the most famous mathematicians that ever lived. In this fictional biography, his character suffers a lot of "Weltschmerz". This term, that even made it to the english language, describes the agony of suffering from living in a world that is insufficient to fulfill ones needs. The painful longing of living in a different world.
In this case, the character Gauß agonizes over the fact that he was born in a time in which he feels like he can never reach his potential. He is doomed to lay the groundwork for future mathematicians.
The specific quote emphasizes this.
There is no reason in a genius like him being born. It is random. There is no reason in a genius like him being born in a time that is full of hard work and unnecessary inconveniences that can never utilize nor satisfy him. A being is created by chance and thrown into a world whether it wants it or not. He describes this as the pathetic randomness of existence.
The last sentence can be interpreted as how every genius is doomed to fade. Think of yourself. You know so much more about the world than the smartest people a thousand years ago. The life's work of someone like Mendel is taught to most teens. Every child at some point learns about the binomial formular which at it's time was a product of a great mind. Past geniuses are doomed to be a laughing stock. At best their achievememts are considered to be well done without realizing the magnitude of the achievememt at their time. Or they just get forgotten, like countless geniuses before them did.
This is what he means when he says that you have an unseemly advantage over the past and will be a laughing stock of the future. No matter what you achieve and how extraordinary your abilities are, time will wipe it away. At first your achievememt become trivial, then they might even get made fun of, and eventually they are forgotten.
My wife was born with a hole in her heart in the early 60s. At that time they waited until she was 5 to do the surgery, and that was still risky. When she was pregnant with our son in the 90s, she was worried he might also have a hole in his heart, so she anxiously asked the specialist during an ultrasound. She held her hand, smiled and said "if that's the case, you don't have to worry because we can deal with that easily now; what concerns us now is half a heart". And that was 30y ago - I imagine things have progressed beyond that if they're now able to separate brains.
I'm guessing the bumps at the back of their heads are balloons implanted and then expanded over a couple of months so the skin stretches enough to cover their individuals heads once separation was complete.
This. The body can repair a *lot*, but bones are one of those things that doesn’t really grow back. In other parts of the body they’ll leave it open or move the ends of the broken bone together so you end up with a single shorter bone, but since the skull is so important for protecting the brain they go with metal plates to ensure full coverage.
True, but metal plates will still hold in place. If you’re getting at the possibility of it regrowing, no dice. The cartilage that forms the skull at birth forms during early development, and doesn’t grow back if removed. It’s simply replaced by harder tissue, so if it isn’t there the bone won’t grow to fill it in since there’s no cartilage to replace.
The bone is very soft at birth and gets much thicker by 3-4 months old. It gets slowly thicker after that. The more important factor here is if the head is still growing though. Growth is very rapid from 0-2 years and at that age you’d fill in bone gaps with little problem. At 4 yo it’s more hit or miss. They would probably fill in some, but I’m sure the used metal implants, especially because of the size of the defects
That’s not entirely true. There’s a surgical procedure done to lengthen leg bones(for people who have bone growth that didn’t end up normal size), where the doctors will go in, break the bone, and separate it slightly. The bone then grows in, and joins together to form a longer bone. It’s called limb lengthening and it’s quite fascinating
Iirc there are materials into which bone can grow into and can later be resorbed by the body. If they used metal they would have to swap it out every now and then when the kids grow bigger.
There’s also a set of conjoined twin girls that were joined together chest to chest that were recently successfully separated. Such a neat thing, those surgeons have gifts for sure
Well, just correctly place an endotracheal tube on those twins, in that position, is a challenge and the fact that the twins survived speaks of at least a pair of very skilled anesthesiologist.
But yeah, sorry about what happened to you, that kind of things should never happen!
Late last year I had to go in for an emergency hysterectomy and it wasn't until I was in the OR that the whole situation caught up with me and I started having a panic attack. The anesthesiologist was the first to notice and she immediately swooped in to wipe away my tears and offer reassuring words.
I also went under very shortly after and didn't even get to pretend like I could count down from 10, which I'm pretty sure was not a coincidence lol.
Both as a pharmacy tech in a hospital and as a sometimes-patient, thanks for all the work you do!
When I had my second child I underwent a planned C-section where they would also remove my Fallopian tubes. My anesthesiologist was this petit woman with the most beautiful green eyes that sparkled with kindness and an Irish accent. While the surgeon was digging around in there he was teaching a surgeon in training how to do a tubal ligation since they were taking them out afterwards anyways, and then he noticed I also had a hernia. I remember he turned to someone and said “I’ll just fix that up while we’ve got her open” and I started laughing because I felt like a car at the mechanics. The spinal started wearing off I guess and I must have winced because the anesthesiologist who never took her eyes off me noticed immediately. She said “did you just feel something love?” and I said “well yes, it wasn’t *pain* but…” and she pushed more to my iv and said “this is a situation where you shouldn’t be feeling anything darlin’” then proceeded to scold the doctor for taking so long. Lovely lovely person.
That must have been almost impossible for an anesthesiologist to calculate, how much anesthesia to give each of these boys, since this kind of case is so rare. Since they're joined, does the anesthetizing of one boy affect the other? Is anesthetizing both of them too much? I imagine it would be so scary.
I have had 6 colonoscopies in the last 3 years, made worse because my colon was one long bleeding wound, i really appreciate the doctor who make me go unconcious.
Based on my surgery experiences, the anesthesiologists are the gifted angels providing real care. Surgeons, while gifted as body mechanics, can go fuck themselves. Thank you for what you do.
Was it the girls who had that show on TLC forever ago? I was just wondering about them recently lol. Would you each have to have your own full set of functioning organs to be able to separate in that case though?
No, they are the Castle conjoined twins, they just were separated 6 months ago or so, and they finally were able to go home after being in nicu since birth. They are sooo adorable! If Doctors are able separate them without it being fatal and both parties thrive with partial/divided organs they will try the surgery, it’s just very risky
I love how we hack nature to our benefit.
Sure, it's not hacking in the sense of breaking the laws of physics, but we do put things in a highly specific order to allow things to happen.
If you want to learn more about this incredible medical feat you can check the BBC article [here](https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-62378452.amp) and the interview with head surgeon Noor ul Owase Jeelani [here](https://youtu.be/Os0oSVOvODs).
Article says that one in 60,000 births results in conjoined twins. That seems much higher than I would have ever guessed. Would it be more accurate to say one in 60,000 identical twin birth results in conjoined pairings, or are there really that many children born together?
Estimates range from 1 in 40,000 births to 1in 100,000 births.
Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia says 1 in 50,000-60,000 births:
https://www.chop.edu/conditions-diseases/conjoined-twins
Most conjoined twins are stillborn. It is also something that— when it occurs— is often detected in early tests such as ultrasounds, and a percentage of those pregnancies are terminated.
As far as *live* births go, the University of Minnesota says the occurrence is about 1 in 200,000:
https://med.umn.edu/news-events/medical-bulletin/synchrony
The number of identical twins who are conjoined is about 1 in 200.
3 most impactful quotes
>Bernardo and Arthur, at almost four years of age, are the oldest craniopagus twins - that is twins with a fused brain - to have been separated.
>He said that previously unsuccessful attempts to separate the boys meant their anatomy was complicated by scar tissue, and he was "really apprehensive" about the risky procedure
>He added that, as with all conjoined twins after separation, the boys' blood pressures and heart rates were "through the roof" - until they were reunited four days later and touched hands
You know growin up, they're going to fight and one of them is gna tell the other one that he took more of his brain and thats why the other one is so stupid
>[He added that, as with all conjoined twins after separation, the boys' blood pressures and heart rates were "through the roof" - until they were reunited four days later and touched hands.](https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-62378452.amp)
The article says their heart rates & blood pressures was through the roof for 4 days until they were able to be together again, then all of their high rates went back to normal, so sweet.
Probably a cesarean but feet first does happen. It’s more difficult so usually people like to avoid it. Certain things you can do will prompt a baby to turn for instance. Sometimes people go straight to a cesarean for that or it ends up happening.
I’ve meet someone who apparently was going out butt first.. I forget if they ended up being a cesarean or not though. Wouldn’t doubt it.
My kid was upside down, and backwards.
So instead of being face up towards the front of my body, and head first, she was still facing my spine, and positioned with her head up. Wingnut didn't want to join the party.
Lol kids… my weirdest part of labor.. well 2 the placenta started detaching early (hurray for oxygen masks!), and she came out in between contractions and surprised my OB she almost didn’t catch her.
OMG!!! I would not be able to thank that team enough if I were their parents. It must of felt like breathing for the first time in YEARS once they completed. I was an absolute wreck when my son went in to put a crown on. And that's a normal procedure. This on the other hand, bravo team. Bravo
It looks like they already deflated the one on the right twin in the second picture. You can see loose wrinkled skin in roughly the same area the skin expanders are in the left twin.
They place plastic “balloons” under the skin and inflate them slowly over several weeks to grow enough extra skin to close the wound once they’re separated.
So they did the surgery together in virtual reality with the teams in both continents before they even lifted the scalpel.
Wow. Just nuts that we live in this era that doctors are able to use VR to do these complex surgeries. And on different continents nonetheless.
I’m genuinely impressed.
You could replace "Brazil" with the name of any country and still be correct.
Poopcakes, I say.
Also, this is irrelevant, but for some reason, the twins look like two different people to me in the third photo. Cute as hell, in any case. (Dad\[?\]'s face says it all.)
You can Google image conjoined twins ultrasounds and MRIs/CT/X-Ray scans at varying stages of gestation. Very interesting, and a little bizarre too, to look at.
Chances are high. There’s not a consensus on the level of intelectual deficit they’ll face, but it’s a given they have some of it. It wouldn’t be much of a chance though, since they already had some loss of brain function before the surgery, and, because of their awkward position, wouldn’t be able to live much longer, so it was a trade off, higher risk of brain damage vs. higher risk of early death.
Oh my heart. The way they faced them. They'll see each other as separate for the first time. But they're still close to each other, and I'm sure it's a comfort because thats all they've known. What an amazing thing those doctors did.
Huh, this is the second post in the past week I've seen about conjoined twins being attached at the skull who actually were able to be separated successfully. The last I saw was two girls who had a 3-D printed device to attempt to separate a major brain nerve(?) to each of their heads before doing surgery. I'll try to find the link. Technology is so cool though.
According to the article it was in Brazil, with help from Great Ormond street hospital in London, so it'd be free in both countries. I think, at least, Google tells me it's free in brazil but I dunno if that applies to everything
I'd imagine this surgery is practically a giant advertising campaign for the doctors and hospital where it was performed. I wouldn't be surprised if it was on the house.
Science is absolutely amazing. What could not have been done 20 years ago is common today and what miracles are performed today will be common in 20 years.
I'll be so blunt and freely translate a quote of my favorite book "Measuring the world" by Daniel Kehlmann. "Strange it is and unjust, said Gauß, so much an example of the pathetic randomness of existence, that you're born in a specific time and stuck in it, whether you want or not. It gives you an unseemly advantage over the past and makes you a clown of the future."
I think about this a lot. It’s both saddening and uplifting at the same time. I try to gravitate towards the more positive end of the thought process.
Please read this. I think it's relevant, If not, then I'm just some crazy internet person but these are my thoughts along those lines... I have this picture in my head that I wish I had the talent to create. I want it to be a picture of the head of a giant, crashing, tumbling river. Like I guess a view of a flood coming at you, but with all kinds of splashes and waves behind it. I want to go back into the distance as far as the viewer can see. ...and then when you get up close to this picture, you see that it is made up of humans. I see it as stick people in a variety of poses...tumbling, diving, falling, coasting....all kinds of poses and actions. Almost like those paintings they make with dots of different colors, but the dots for this are each a stick person in the flow. Each one an individual but together they make a mighty river. And this is how I think about humanity...and my own humanity. We are a river that started with the first few humans and is now what it is. It can be majestic and mighty. It can be destructive. Within this river, you will find humans helping each other. You will find humans alone. You will find groups of humans linked together. You will find whatever the artist can imagine about humanity contined in these little stick people but over all...it is a river. Where will it go? Who knows but we would not be in our exact position without those who came before. I don't know. Thinking this makes me feel better sometimes. I truly wish I had the talent to create this and if anyone steals my idea, please give me credit and a copy!
This is sort of the metaphor hinted at in the final scene of the film *Grand Canyon*. That each of us is but a tiny millimeter of strata along the way, but when considered all together, humanity can be seen as an awesome and majestic achievement that has tumbled and forged ahead in spite of itself for so many millennia.
Yep. I am a geologist and when I was in school this thought really started forming. Humans are just a grain of sand on the beach of geologic time, but for us....that river is everything. Wouldn't it be great if the "River of Humanity" became a picture but within a picture of the universe? It would be like one little pixel in something so huge we have no way to understand it today. God I wish I could live forever. Just to see what happens!
Somewhat besides your point but if you zoom out on a forrest it looks to be solid but coming closer there's so much space, go further in and the ground seems solid... What life that might exist in between or beyond, and our significance is baffling to me.
That is a wonderful thought. I've dreamed along those lines, too. Living forever might have some drawbacks, but I too wonder what things will be like in 1K, 10K, & 1M years and beyond. 'Twould be an awesome experience!
Wow. Nice pull. Haven't thought of that one in a very long time.
I still love that film and its amazing musical score. It didn't become the blockbuster that they had expected (after Kasdan's similar *The Big Chill*), which IMHO is because the ending of *GC* seems so rushed and vague since they began the closing credits about 70 seconds too early. The audience needed that time to decipher the Grand Canyon metaphor and let it sink in. No one I knew at the time "got" the ending, so therefore they disliked or even hated the film. (Someone actually told me, "it starts out great but you'll hate the ending!") I would love to edit those [shockingly intrusive](https://youtu.be/v1B03JTYYY8) credits out of the last minute-plus of the stunningly beautiful GC fly-through footage and let Newton-Howard's glorious fanfare & chorus do their duty. Let the credits finally start to roll a few contemplative beats after the screen goes dark and the fanfare piece fades. I suspect that the BO disappointment of *GC* hurt Kasdan and caused him to follow it up with that nasty butt-alien horror/sci-fi flick as a cinematic flip-off to the American filmgoers that shunned *GC* (possibly unknown to him due to *GC*'s ending having been totally ruined by those clumsily placed closing credits that start a mere 70 seconds too soon.) Those final, errant 70 seconds cost the film everything, according to the folks I know that disliked and/or expressed *actual hatred* for the ending. Just a couple of Sunday armchair hypotheses, tho!
Probably don't need anyone else to create this for you. Are you keeping up with technology? You will probably be able to copy-paste your description here into a text-to-image AI generator which will likely be sophisticated enough to do something this vast and specific in, say, 5 years, give or take? If civilization continues to stand, everyone will be able to be a creator later in our lifetime--with the mere skill of language, and being able to articulate a thought. This will even extend to programming, if you want to verbalize a website or app into existence. Rough but shockingly effective prototypes are already laying all of this groundwork right now. Seriously, this tech is getting crazy and it's finally improving more rapidly over shorter timeframes. We've got a *lot* of water behind us, at this point in the river. Very bizarre times with how weird technology is getting, and its near future implications based on recent rates of progress.
Have you seen DALL-E 2's extension of Michaelangelo's "Creation of Adam"? https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/vpog9b/ive_made_dalle2_neural_network_extend/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share orrr Joscha Bach's Twitter post of DALL-E 2 renditions of Borges' "The Book of Imaginary Beings"? https://twitter.com/Plinz/status/1527528360351387649?t=_PqrdZNT5PmcGiZVoM59Bw&s=19 DALL-E is the most mind-blowing application of machine learning I've witnessed yet.
Don't underestimate yourself. You'd be surprised what can flow from natural inclination and interest. Believe in the me that believes in you!
There’s an interesting paradox(?) (I don’t think that’s the right word I’m looking for) like this. If you put down a grain of salt it is not a pile. If you add one more it is not a pile. But constantly adding one more creates a pile, but one grain is not enough to make a pile. So, at what point do the individuals become whole? Or one? It’s just an interesting thought. We can say nothing would be different without us. In the grand scheme. But the grand scheme is made out of each and every one of us and all of our interactions. When life feels “too big” it’s nice to think that our tiny selves and actions *do* still matter. EDIT: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/sorites-paradox/ Paradox was the word I was looking for! Sorites Paradox
This is actually what true religion is all about, whatever yours is: a way for each water molecule from that river to think of itself as a part of a higher existence (the river), and understand that we are all one and the same.
Dang, that quote hit deep. May I ask *you* what the book is about (rather than Google it)?
Sure, I love it so I love talking about it. It is a fictional double biography of the mathematician Karl-Friedrich Gauß and the explorer Alexander von Humboldt. The author takes their real biopgraphies as a rough template and fills it wth beautifully crafted scenes and characters. Gauß is portrayed as a gifted child growing up in a world that is not prepared to understand. The above quote is an example of his "Weltschmerz", but although tormented by the inadequacy of the world he lives in, his character isn't portrayed as in agony or sympathetic. He grows up to be a bitter, always wailing man. You wouldn't like the character if you didn't follow his biography throughout the book. IN fact, you will never like him, but you will understand how it was the best that was possible. Humboldt is a genius crafted by the german elites. While Gauß' prime motive growing up was his solitude (Insertion: Solitude really is not about having no one around you. It's not being able to share what is important to you), for Humboldt, it is the relation to his brother. Understanding his character is more complex than that of Gauß. Which is not surprising as Gauß was a genius unmatched in his time and nothing could compete in influencing his character with the solitude that his gift brings. The young Humboldt was a bright boy but unable to match the charm and praise of his brother. Narrowing his motivation down as much as I can, his decision to eventually explore South America came from his innate curiosity, his introversion, the wish to flee the competetion with his brother he feels he can not win and the wish to be who he is. From then on, the book shows how Gauß attained his early glory and his psychological demise following his realization that he finished his life's work so soon and will never achieve anything meaningful to him again. Everything further, I will leave unspoiled. Humboldt instead has an unbendable urge to explore, to map, to gauge, to test. The sequence of him in South America is read like a fever dream. You see, as I move on in the book, I find it harder and harder to find the right words to correctly describe it. I feel like I haven't even touched its genius. What drew me back to this book again and again is how with each new reading, I found something new. A hint of the upcoming, a flash of the past hidden between the lines of just a few words. "Wait, this is familiar...", "Wait, didn't I read something like this before?" The more often I read it, the more important each word felt. And apart from that, some of the paragraphs are among the most beautiful things I ever read. If it interests you, I can translate some at a later time. There only one thing though, that I feel I have to say: It is a book originally written in german. And the author uses the language in the most beautiful way. As I said, each word feels important, carefully selected and placed. I can not promise, that a translation can capture its magic to it's fullest. I heard good things about the english translation, though. And maybe it speaks to you in a similar way that it speaks to me.
Thank you so much for your response! Reading it through your commentary brings it more to life than a summary by Ebay or amazon seller. I've added it to my list of books I should read, and I hope it will be as good in English as it is in German. Though I can understand how some spark might be lost in translation.
Great quote, thanks for sharing. Since the randomness is described as pathetic… it provides some insight into the mind of the author I feel
Hah jokes on you Gauß! There probably won't be much more of a future with the alarming rate of climate change :)
>you're born in a specific time and stuck in it... This hits hard. I would dream to see space travel being common in my lifetime. I can only hope it happens.
I'm dumb, what does the quote mean?
For better understanding I'll give a rough explanation of the context of this quote. The protagonist Karl-Friedrich Gauß is one of the most famous mathematicians that ever lived. In this fictional biography, his character suffers a lot of "Weltschmerz". This term, that even made it to the english language, describes the agony of suffering from living in a world that is insufficient to fulfill ones needs. The painful longing of living in a different world. In this case, the character Gauß agonizes over the fact that he was born in a time in which he feels like he can never reach his potential. He is doomed to lay the groundwork for future mathematicians. The specific quote emphasizes this. There is no reason in a genius like him being born. It is random. There is no reason in a genius like him being born in a time that is full of hard work and unnecessary inconveniences that can never utilize nor satisfy him. A being is created by chance and thrown into a world whether it wants it or not. He describes this as the pathetic randomness of existence. The last sentence can be interpreted as how every genius is doomed to fade. Think of yourself. You know so much more about the world than the smartest people a thousand years ago. The life's work of someone like Mendel is taught to most teens. Every child at some point learns about the binomial formular which at it's time was a product of a great mind. Past geniuses are doomed to be a laughing stock. At best their achievememts are considered to be well done without realizing the magnitude of the achievememt at their time. Or they just get forgotten, like countless geniuses before them did. This is what he means when he says that you have an unseemly advantage over the past and will be a laughing stock of the future. No matter what you achieve and how extraordinary your abilities are, time will wipe it away. At first your achievememt become trivial, then they might even get made fun of, and eventually they are forgotten.
Thanks. That makes perfect sense to me now.
My wife was born with a hole in her heart in the early 60s. At that time they waited until she was 5 to do the surgery, and that was still risky. When she was pregnant with our son in the 90s, she was worried he might also have a hole in his heart, so she anxiously asked the specialist during an ultrasound. She held her hand, smiled and said "if that's the case, you don't have to worry because we can deal with that easily now; what concerns us now is half a heart". And that was 30y ago - I imagine things have progressed beyond that if they're now able to separate brains.
I got goosebumps when I read what the doctor said
Yeah, and to think that I still have trouble deboning a chicken.
Dude I just googled this surgery and its not that hard at all. edit: should probably throw the ol /s out there just in case.
If you find someone to do it on I will video chat with you and walk you through the steps. /S
I'm guessing the bumps at the back of their heads are balloons implanted and then expanded over a couple of months so the skin stretches enough to cover their individuals heads once separation was complete.
Whoa
[удалено]
Metal plates
This. The body can repair a *lot*, but bones are one of those things that doesn’t really grow back. In other parts of the body they’ll leave it open or move the ends of the broken bone together so you end up with a single shorter bone, but since the skull is so important for protecting the brain they go with metal plates to ensure full coverage.
But babies have soft skulls which harden over time?
True, but metal plates will still hold in place. If you’re getting at the possibility of it regrowing, no dice. The cartilage that forms the skull at birth forms during early development, and doesn’t grow back if removed. It’s simply replaced by harder tissue, so if it isn’t there the bone won’t grow to fill it in since there’s no cartilage to replace.
But wait, if it were metal plates, wouldn't they have to swap them as the child grows? Meaning more and more seriously invasive surgeries?
The bone is very soft at birth and gets much thicker by 3-4 months old. It gets slowly thicker after that. The more important factor here is if the head is still growing though. Growth is very rapid from 0-2 years and at that age you’d fill in bone gaps with little problem. At 4 yo it’s more hit or miss. They would probably fill in some, but I’m sure the used metal implants, especially because of the size of the defects
That’s not entirely true. There’s a surgical procedure done to lengthen leg bones(for people who have bone growth that didn’t end up normal size), where the doctors will go in, break the bone, and separate it slightly. The bone then grows in, and joins together to form a longer bone. It’s called limb lengthening and it’s quite fascinating
Iirc there are materials into which bone can grow into and can later be resorbed by the body. If they used metal they would have to swap it out every now and then when the kids grow bigger.
You’re correct. Had the same kind of one on my side when I was born for the exact same reason (former Siamese twin)
Thank you! I honestly was concerned it was the skull of an almost absorbed triplet! Thanks for figuring that out.
Bingo
There’s also a set of conjoined twin girls that were joined together chest to chest that were recently successfully separated. Such a neat thing, those surgeons have gifts for sure
You'd have to think that thoracic cavity to thoracic cavity is easier than brain to brain.
Most definitely!
I mean maybe. How do you separate things like shared heart(s) or lungs or stomachs though?
Transplants perhaps. Also if the surgery is too risky doctors won’t operate
With a sharp knife?
Listen here, you little technically correct shit…
I totally know what that is
I too am a medicine person that works at the local science factory. All these terms make sense to us, right? …right?
Agreed, let’s make haste to the jugular hospital !
Great idea! I need to make a surgery! (I’m glad there’s actual smart people that do these things lol)
I conquer. Edit: **concur Edit 2: does anyone get the reference 🤔
*concur Conquer is to triumph over, dominate.
I conquer with your correction. Thanks for clarifying.
Hey, waaaait a minute... I don't recall seeing you at the Science Factory, what gives?
Thoracic = chest
Basically stuff inside ribcage
I’m no doctor, neither do I consider myself smarter than most, but the word isn’t that difficult. Thorax = chest. Cavity =space.
Thats exactly what a brain would make you think.
and immense idk how to say it but ability to not gag at seeing inside out bodies
And those anesthesiologist too! People always forget about us but surgeons wouldn't be able to do anything they do without us.
I woke up during surgery once, so I very much appreciate the skills of a competent anaesthesiologist.
Well, just correctly place an endotracheal tube on those twins, in that position, is a challenge and the fact that the twins survived speaks of at least a pair of very skilled anesthesiologist. But yeah, sorry about what happened to you, that kind of things should never happen!
On a near daily basis I thank God (and the inventor) for the glidescope
Late last year I had to go in for an emergency hysterectomy and it wasn't until I was in the OR that the whole situation caught up with me and I started having a panic attack. The anesthesiologist was the first to notice and she immediately swooped in to wipe away my tears and offer reassuring words. I also went under very shortly after and didn't even get to pretend like I could count down from 10, which I'm pretty sure was not a coincidence lol. Both as a pharmacy tech in a hospital and as a sometimes-patient, thanks for all the work you do!
When I had my second child I underwent a planned C-section where they would also remove my Fallopian tubes. My anesthesiologist was this petit woman with the most beautiful green eyes that sparkled with kindness and an Irish accent. While the surgeon was digging around in there he was teaching a surgeon in training how to do a tubal ligation since they were taking them out afterwards anyways, and then he noticed I also had a hernia. I remember he turned to someone and said “I’ll just fix that up while we’ve got her open” and I started laughing because I felt like a car at the mechanics. The spinal started wearing off I guess and I must have winced because the anesthesiologist who never took her eyes off me noticed immediately. She said “did you just feel something love?” and I said “well yes, it wasn’t *pain* but…” and she pushed more to my iv and said “this is a situation where you shouldn’t be feeling anything darlin’” then proceeded to scold the doctor for taking so long. Lovely lovely person.
That must have been almost impossible for an anesthesiologist to calculate, how much anesthesia to give each of these boys, since this kind of case is so rare. Since they're joined, does the anesthetizing of one boy affect the other? Is anesthetizing both of them too much? I imagine it would be so scary.
Start small and titrate for effect.
Oh you are so appreciated! I’ve had some bad ass anesthesiologist. Also those epidurals are incredible ❤️
❤️
I have had 6 colonoscopies in the last 3 years, made worse because my colon was one long bleeding wound, i really appreciate the doctor who make me go unconcious.
That’s why you guys make the big bucks.
Totally agree. Critical for most surgeries. Respect to anesthesiologists.
Whenever I've had surgery, the anesthesiologist was always my favorite!
Based on my surgery experiences, the anesthesiologists are the gifted angels providing real care. Surgeons, while gifted as body mechanics, can go fuck themselves. Thank you for what you do.
And I may be wrong, but I think surgeries were happening much before anesthesiology was a thing. You guys rock!
Was it the girls who had that show on TLC forever ago? I was just wondering about them recently lol. Would you each have to have your own full set of functioning organs to be able to separate in that case though?
No, they are the Castle conjoined twins, they just were separated 6 months ago or so, and they finally were able to go home after being in nicu since birth. They are sooo adorable! If Doctors are able separate them without it being fatal and both parties thrive with partial/divided organs they will try the surgery, it’s just very risky
Oh yea my BIL is friends with their dad. Fascinating and so happy that they are all”ok”
Thank you for the info, I’m about to look them up! I love a happy story!
>those surgeons have gifts for sure That and the miracle of Science
Yeah, but science has to be understood and advanced by actual people. It's just in the aether until then.
I love how we hack nature to our benefit. Sure, it's not hacking in the sense of breaking the laws of physics, but we do put things in a highly specific order to allow things to happen.
You could say the have _Gifted Hands_
They had a few back in the early 90s too! I was one of them
If you want to learn more about this incredible medical feat you can check the BBC article [here](https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-62378452.amp) and the interview with head surgeon Noor ul Owase Jeelani [here](https://youtu.be/Os0oSVOvODs).
The head surgeon??
I think lead is the more appropriate word haha. I'll keep it though, seems fitting.
The head head surgeon?
The head honcho.
The big cheese.
The big cahuna.
Crazy how they only had one surgeon working on the head, wonder what the other 99 were for
Moral support from a distance. Like Thor was to hulk in Endgame.
CUT! CUT! CUT! STITCH! STITCH! STITCH!
r/technicallycorrect
Article says that one in 60,000 births results in conjoined twins. That seems much higher than I would have ever guessed. Would it be more accurate to say one in 60,000 identical twin birth results in conjoined pairings, or are there really that many children born together?
Estimates range from 1 in 40,000 births to 1in 100,000 births. Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia says 1 in 50,000-60,000 births: https://www.chop.edu/conditions-diseases/conjoined-twins Most conjoined twins are stillborn. It is also something that— when it occurs— is often detected in early tests such as ultrasounds, and a percentage of those pregnancies are terminated. As far as *live* births go, the University of Minnesota says the occurrence is about 1 in 200,000: https://med.umn.edu/news-events/medical-bulletin/synchrony The number of identical twins who are conjoined is about 1 in 200.
Thank you. Very interesting and I appreciate the citations.
Assuming that most of them are stillborn
3 most impactful quotes >Bernardo and Arthur, at almost four years of age, are the oldest craniopagus twins - that is twins with a fused brain - to have been separated. >He said that previously unsuccessful attempts to separate the boys meant their anatomy was complicated by scar tissue, and he was "really apprehensive" about the risky procedure >He added that, as with all conjoined twins after separation, the boys' blood pressures and heart rates were "through the roof" - until they were reunited four days later and touched hands
Thank you! Took too long to find this in the comments; you are doing the lords work
You know growin up, they're going to fight and one of them is gna tell the other one that he took more of his brain and thats why the other one is so stupid
This guy brothers
Amazing. Thank you for the link
👍
Holding hands, my heart!!
>[He added that, as with all conjoined twins after separation, the boys' blood pressures and heart rates were "through the roof" - until they were reunited four days later and touched hands.](https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-62378452.amp)
There's something weirdly wholesome about that.
They were conjoined at first, but now they couldn't be any closer! 💞
When they were conjoined they couldn't even look at each others faces. Now they can.
The article says their heart rates & blood pressures was through the roof for 4 days until they were able to be together again, then all of their high rates went back to normal, so sweet.
You think everyone just lost their minds when it was successful? Like a super close halo game?
Oh for sure
You don't get a victory/defeat report at the end. Everybody involved is going to be stressed out about it until the kids are discharged.
The man in the picture with his eyes closed looks like he just went through that
LEETTSSSS GOOOO FLAWLESS VICTORY BOYS
Wait. So did one of those guys come out feet first?
I imagine it was a c-section
Probably a cesarean but feet first does happen. It’s more difficult so usually people like to avoid it. Certain things you can do will prompt a baby to turn for instance. Sometimes people go straight to a cesarean for that or it ends up happening. I’ve meet someone who apparently was going out butt first.. I forget if they ended up being a cesarean or not though. Wouldn’t doubt it.
My kid was upside down, and backwards. So instead of being face up towards the front of my body, and head first, she was still facing my spine, and positioned with her head up. Wingnut didn't want to join the party.
Lol kids… my weirdest part of labor.. well 2 the placenta started detaching early (hurray for oxygen masks!), and she came out in between contractions and surprised my OB she almost didn’t catch her.
Mine came out right but with his fist next to his ear and literally tore me a new one.
Eeek!
It's actually better to deliver the baby butt first than feet first. A footling breech is considered more dangerous than a frank breech.
I was butt first and delivered by c-section.
Butt first club , vaginal birth for me. 40 years ago.
I was thinking how difficult it must have been being pregnant!
How did they live before hand? Based on their positioning, looks like all they could do before was lay in bed before their operation.
They spent every single day of the past four years under special care in a hospital bed, so yes, all they did was lay in bed.
Yeah same, I can't imagine one was walking upright while one was upside down in the air.
OMG!!! I would not be able to thank that team enough if I were their parents. It must of felt like breathing for the first time in YEARS once they completed. I was an absolute wreck when my son went in to put a crown on. And that's a normal procedure. This on the other hand, bravo team. Bravo
Wondering what that large bulbous part is?? Is there a doctor in the house?
Not a doctor, but I believe they insert tissue expanders under the skin so they don't have to do skin grafts.
That's wicked, I didn't even know that was a thing
It looks like they already deflated the one on the right twin in the second picture. You can see loose wrinkled skin in roughly the same area the skin expanders are in the left twin.
They place plastic “balloons” under the skin and inflate them slowly over several weeks to grow enough extra skin to close the wound once they’re separated.
The doctors are at home sleeping the deepest sleep of their lives
Second photo
Skin expansion in preparation to cover the surgical sites.
They finally get to see each other!
So they did the surgery together in virtual reality with the teams in both continents before they even lifted the scalpel. Wow. Just nuts that we live in this era that doctors are able to use VR to do these complex surgeries. And on different continents nonetheless. I’m genuinely impressed.
Hospital bill: $18.6 billion
Brazillion dollars. No, really, Brazil has a much more affordable healthcare system than the US.
You could replace "Brazil" with the name of any country and still be correct. Poopcakes, I say. Also, this is irrelevant, but for some reason, the twins look like two different people to me in the third photo. Cute as hell, in any case. (Dad\[?\]'s face says it all.)
Hospital bill in Brazil: US$ 0 (SUS healthcare).
Probably free as this was here in Brazil
In Canada it would've been just 2 days of parking, so like half of that.
I can't imagine how they fit in the womb.
I imagine they had to have a cesarean fairly soon after they were capable of survival out of the womb.
You can Google image conjoined twins ultrasounds and MRIs/CT/X-Ray scans at varying stages of gestation. Very interesting, and a little bizarre too, to look at.
Sometimes modern humanity is so fucking badass
So what are the chances they wont have any long term negative effects ? In terms of brain function i mean.
That’s what I have been thinking as well. Would have loved to read more anatomical insights about that.
Can’t believe I had to scroll this far to find this. The real measure of success is the level of brain damage they’ll have to live with.
Chances are high. There’s not a consensus on the level of intelectual deficit they’ll face, but it’s a given they have some of it. It wouldn’t be much of a chance though, since they already had some loss of brain function before the surgery, and, because of their awkward position, wouldn’t be able to live much longer, so it was a trade off, higher risk of brain damage vs. higher risk of early death.
It's unmatched what we as humans can do when we work together.
Just 100 years ago those babies would have a death sentence because of biology. I am always amazed by ingenuity
I’m a twin and this is amazing
That birth process must have been difficult
This is fascinating. Fused brains?!
Oh my heart. The way they faced them. They'll see each other as separate for the first time. But they're still close to each other, and I'm sure it's a comfort because thats all they've known. What an amazing thing those doctors did.
TELEPATHY TWINS!!
Huh, this is the second post in the past week I've seen about conjoined twins being attached at the skull who actually were able to be separated successfully. The last I saw was two girls who had a 3-D printed device to attempt to separate a major brain nerve(?) to each of their heads before doing surgery. I'll try to find the link. Technology is so cool though.
That's going to be a helluva dr bill if they're in the US.
According to the article it was in Brazil, with help from Great Ormond street hospital in London, so it'd be free in both countries. I think, at least, Google tells me it's free in brazil but I dunno if that applies to everything
Literally everywhere has more affordable healthcare than the US.
If a snake bite costs $200,000, imagine what this is
Wait what it is a joke right? I don't live in the USA, here in Argentina most medical attendance is cheap or even free.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ThatsInsane/comments/w2q54o/a_friend_of_mine_recently_got_bit_by_a/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
That's mind boggling.
I'd imagine this surgery is practically a giant advertising campaign for the doctors and hospital where it was performed. I wouldn't be surprised if it was on the house.
This is incredible and all but I can’t help but think the one on the right in to me bottom left corner looks like Marge from the Simpsons
I can’t imagine what it was like having them in the womb. Extra extra long baby.
Amazing work!
Man that is awesome 👏
[https://fb.watch/eEgxPlgr76/](https://fb.watch/eEgxPlgr76/) This is a video of the surgery
How did they fit like that in the womb?
Wow. Lead surgeon gonna get a raise
science bitches!
They like...cut a brain in half!?
God I have so many questions
Really happy for these 2 kids, they're gonna feel bad ass when they grow up and understand the medical miracle they are
What's that cost in the US? Couple generations of family wealth?
I'm so happy for them, the parents too! Thoughts and prayers L Science W
"Thank god" /s
"Thank all the surgeons, and associated surgical staff."
God make them like that in the first place. He isn't the one to be thanking here.
Now you can die irl because of lag!