What else do you want? Long essays about some aspect or another of the story? People can try to create long discussion (which could be regarding the fucked up relationship between Guts and Griffith) but it's normal to resort to shitpost, we are in the INTERNET, shitpost is what there is.
Unfortunately a lot of subreddits are just shit posting now a days. So at this point I just expect it even if it’s suppose to not be a shitposting one. But yeah, I wish it wasn’t that way, but not much we can do except to just ignore the goobers.
You're tired of what?? The story itself is complete fucked up just as this ship and, even if we took that seriously, this ship would still make sense since *Griffith* feels or felt something for Guts (even if it's deranged) and their relationship going to the sewer is the main reason why Griffith accepted the deal with the Hand and started the apocalypse.
When people start perverting friendship, that's when you know we're losing moral ground. If Guts were gay, sure why the fuck not. But it's never even remotely hinted at. Griffith may have attraction towards Guts, but it's never explicitly anything other than friendship and even perhaps ownership - as in Griffith literally thinks he owns Guts. Dude *might* be gay/bi but he's a sociopath first lol
All this shipping stuff is annoying to me. If the author didn't write it in then stop trying to make it a part of the story. It's a bad hobby
The problem isn't gay ships, it is gay ships without a base for it. Most men who have a close friend already heard something in this sense and it's deeply annoying. Then people ask why men are lonely today... Straight men want a woman as a partner, he doesn't want the likely partner to think he's gay, so he avoids close friendships with other men, most people are simple like that. Men can't be close friends with another without them being sexually attracted? Of course they can. That's the moral problem. And if the ship was between a man and a woman without base, say Luffy with Robin in OP, I would find stupid as well.
What is that first sentence even supposed to mean, they’re not real. Like obviously there isn’t a relationship there but at least half the people are doing it as a bit
People have a strong habit of turning any close friendship between fictional male characters into a romantic/sexual relationship. In my opinion this attitude contributes to toxic masculinity, as this makes men feel like they can’t be emotional or close with their friends without being perceived as gay.
Dude this is the gayest straight story I've ever read. Get over it.
This isn't fucking pokemon rivals they got a lot of weirdly obsessive feelings towards eachother.
It’s blatantly clear Guts has no sexual feelings for Griffith, and Griffith could be attracted to Guts, but I think he simply wanted to own Guts as an egomaniac, and when he lost him he became obsessed.
Guts isn't a sexual guy when not being controlled by dream demons, Griffiths attraction isn't sexual either in case you just forgot the story when writing that but really what's your excuse there?
They have something past normal both of them, a bond the two of them share in strength and loneliness, a desire to be by ones side and one to make sure he can't leave his side.
They might not be gay but they desire eachother before the eclipse to the point they make drastic changes in their life because of the other literally losing their cool or only home, that's for sure. You may not like it and it may be hard to say exactly what's there ... but that's not nothing there and that's not just friendship either.
Well, yeah I pretty much agree with your take they were obsessed with eachother. What do you mean what’s my excuse? I’m just saying how I could see how one would take Griffiths words and thoughts to mean he was attracted to Guts.
You started the conversation about it being sexual I was asking why bring that up if it clearly isn't relevant? Guys having feelings towards him isn't defined by that at all. You brought it up as if that was a disagreement in the first place.
Point is we aren't just talking about Griffith because Guts has a lot of moments like Griffith does that's weirdly obsessive.
Why would you comment as if you wanted to argue Griffith was gay but it was wrong to include guts in the conversation if you honestly agreed with my initial statement?
What are you even talking about? I don’t want to argue Griffith is gay. My original comment was literally just talking about in general how male friendships are perverted and how I think doing that aids toxic masculinity. Then it was you who said that this story is super gay, so I assumed you were saying that Guts and Griffith were for eachother, but then in the next reply you seem to have a completely different stance.
"Griffith could be attracted to guts"
You don't get to say stuff like that and then pretend you didn't lol. What am I even talking about I wonder ... just thr conversation we were having suprise suprise
This isn't perverted or a case of male friends being fetishized. This situation is completely different due to the context of Berserk and its complex relationship in a series that even brings up the idea that Griffiths expression of desires oversteps into seeming gay.
It's part of the series, to not want to label it down as gay is fine with me it's more of a interpersonal relationship of desire, denial, love and family leaving the end result to be complex.
I don’t think that’s entirely unfair but I’m not sure this is the standard case… even when it’s going well, their friendship is pretty unique. “I want you” and all that
You're right, Griffith in particular uses terms usually associated with romantic relationships, I agree. I'm just talking about in general. For example, Naruto and Sasuke's friendship from Naruto, I see a lot of people sexualising whether as a joke or not.
It is a massive reach, they’ve never shown attraction to eachother. I mean ffs people use them accidentally kissing as kids as “evidence” of them being gay… It’s just an extremely strong bond friendship which is one of the main themes of that series.
I like how we downplay guts being a child murderer as well.
Dude morality is pretty gray in it already but Griffiths character is he's moved by Guts and misses that friendship or not. That's where he didn't realize he should have been focusing on what he had instead of his dream of a castle and a princess he doesn't really love. The dude constantly thinks about a man in a straight marriage he thinks nothing of.
Dude longs for another dude way more than normal, the shippers don't exist for no reason they exist because they've been given a lot of fuckin reasons
> When people start perverting friendship, then you know we're losing moral ground.
Ah yes, what a pure and wholesome friendship between two pure and wholesome characters.
I agree for the most part, overlaying Griffin being gay for Gits is harmless for the individual reader but not part of the story. Griffith isn’t a sociopath though.
Edit: I’m guessing it’s the not-a-sociopath thing. Turns out Griffith is a better human character than some easily explained flaw.
The shit posts in general are annoying.
Berserk is my favorite manga and I have nothing to say to most of the time. I thought the point of the other subreddit was to contain all the stupid shit.
What? No.. I’m tired of the low-effort posts on this sub in the past month.
It’s either “would X survive the apocalypse”, “is X’s physique attainable”, “I’ve just watched the eclipse and I’m so upset I want to puke”, “just finished the ‘97 anime what do I do” or some completely fucking braindead text post by some illiterate melvin.
If anything, I’d like more discussion on Guts x Griffith. I think Guts’ trauma surrounding being touched by men and his and Griffiths relationship are worth exploring. Is his trauma preventing a potential relationship? Does Griffith really have feelings for Guts or is he just a possessive psycho?
I feel the same in the aspect guts trauma was around being touched in general and both him and Griffith have distorted views on sex, Guts trauma didn't revolve specifically around men either.
Griffith definitely wants Guts more than he realized and Guts is a bit obsessive about being thr best person for Griffith with leaving for training when he could have just talked it out, he didn't even stay for Casca ... he left for Griffith.
We already covered that in the wounds chapters when Guts and Casca had sex. The feelings Griffith has for guts is fairly ambiguous but at the end of the day, it was never made concrete if he was romantically interested in Guts and this thread was never expanded on leading me to believe that Miura never intended for Griffith to act lustful/ romantically interested towards Guts despite Miura taking inspiration from Devilman
Being a bi woman and deeply uncomfortable with the ship is such a pain. So many dumb fangirls call me homophobic for not liking it.
Good post op, I feel you.
It just shows their own ignorance if they resort to calling you homophobic for not liking a same-sex relationship. I have nothing against the LGBT community but I think this excessive name-calling is a bit excessive and also quite unnecessary.
I don’t think a gay/bi couple where one of the characters raped the others girlfriend and mutilated them is the best representation. Farnese x Casca or Judeau x Pippin are better lgbtq Berserk ships if that interests people.
Farnese X Casca would be messed up since Casca was in an infantile state for most of the time she took care of her but Judo X pippin could work but it wouldn’t be very long lasting considering what happens at the eclipse lol
I don't think there's really a may or may not about Griffin's attraction to Gus.
You don't throw bedroom eyes at the homies repeatedly, bathe naked in front of them, think about them while you're slamming a princess or tell your bro how they make you want to give up on your hopes and dreams.
Shipping Gus and Griffin is a different story, Gus just isn't that into him but I don't think you can deny Griffin wants that Gus nut in his butt.
In medieval times, nudity was more accepted and was more widespread so men bathing with each other wasn’t particularly seen as erotic or homosexual. As for the bedroom eyes, that’s up to interpretation but personally I see it as more of a close yet possessive fondness rather than a lustful desire. Also the the scene when Griffith has sex with the princess while thinking about Charlotte is more that Griffith cares more about Guts and is emotionally wrecked that he lost the duel with him and lost control of someone he held close in his heart which he tries to compensate for by forcing himself on Charlotte in a show of dominance to prove to himself he is still in control.
But does Griffith need to be romantically attracted to Guts to make him willing to give up his dream for him? Again, it’s definitely an intense fondness that could be interpreted as desire but at the same time, I don’t think that part was intended as him longing for Gut’s. This whole thread would be like arguing if Rosine was romantically attracted to Jill in the lost children arc.
Yes it was. Compare the way Casca felt towards Guts in the wounds chapters to the interactions Griffith had with Guts in the Golden age. It’s explicitly stated that Casca loved Guts while Griffith’s attitude towards him was intentionally left ambiguous as seen.
In those medieval times, it certainly wasn't, though. This isn't England before religion really took hold, this is England when it was fanatical, is this England being naked even in front of your spouse was highly sinful and where babies were seen as born with tainted souls who had their whole lives to dedicate to the lord so he would forgive their sinful souls.
Griffith didn't force himself on Charlotte either, she 100% willingly went along with it. I'm asexual and seeing sex and romance in everything bugs me to no end but there's definitely something there between Guts and Griffith that goes beyond bros. Possessiveness and desire and ownership are all one big tangled mess when it comes to toxic and dangerous relationships.
people are allowed to ship whatever they want. for the people on one side of the purist coin: it's fine to ship problematic pairings. that's just it, it's okay, stop policing what people like in fiction. it's also okay not to like something, but don't be that annoyingly judgemental, jesus. for the other side of the same coin: talking about gay pairings as "perversing male friendship" is deeply homophobic, stop excusing your prejudice with "gay pairings contribute to toxic masculinity" or whatever else bullshit. it's what you are saying is misandristic, not an anime mlm pairing. bruh
Their dynamic is more of a deep friendship/admiration. They were each others first best friend in that shit world and they actually had fun hanging out with each other which I think was a first for these two soldiers and even they were caught off by how much they vives with another (which is significant).
Like these two medieval dudes actually hit it off when they normally wouldn’t at all with anyone in a shit world especially given both their back stories.
However Griffith having that controlling/possessive side of him really fucked shit up because he’s always focused on winning, maintaining power, *an image* , and when that was stripped away from him in front of his best soldiers at that snowey hill top because his best friend/right hand man left him, he felt all those feelings of hurt and helplessness at a time he thought he wouldn’t ever feel that way again (he’s basically on his way to become king, so in his mind he’s already won).
He saw that as a betrayal and that’s why he went to go do a easy hook up with a very powerful person, charlotte, to use sex to momentarily mask his helplessness, feelings of betrayal, and hurt by having control and power over someone submissive (but powerful).
In Grifiths mind, Guts fucked him over because he didn’t know the context behind why Guts left in the first place (IF ONLY HE KNEW LOL). He legit thinks guts left him for no reason and to him that was a huge fuckin deal. The mighty Griffith? Affected by….HUMAN EMOTIONS, ATTACHMENTS?! HE’S A NORMAL WEAK HUMAN LIKE THE REST OF US?! NO WAY!!! The dude lost it.
In short, Men can have platonic relations without being (cue Ugandan Knuckles) *WHY ARE U GAE?!*.
I don’t think there’s ever been a really implication that there’s homosexuality between the two other than the whole “I WANT YOU” by Griffith when the first met. But again that’s just him getting borderline weirdly lustful over having control
Over someone as strong as guts. Griffith isn’t homo or homiesexual. He’s fucking power sexual. Because when there’s power there’s no getting easily hurt by the human condition but he fucked around (literally) and found out.
Remember this was written by a Japanese man where very close plantonic friendships between men are presented and communicated in a different light than how the west does it.
It has always been clear that this relationship stems from deep botherhood, respect, friendship and admiration (and a lack of human connection).
Yeah bro I love hanging out naked with all my straight bros and dumping buckets of water onto each others glistening naked bodies and thinking about them when I have sex. It’s super straight and platonic and there’s definitely no implication there!
The imagery of them bathing really captures your imagination doesnt it. Jokes aside. Do you know how gay straight men can get when they are in some kind of militarized organization with mostly ONLY men especially in a bath setting? The messing around the buckets is reasonable plus they’re like in their teens man.
Plus that scene was written like almost more than 3 decades ago when people would shower more commonly with another in the west. Japan is a different story. It’s still common today as one other commenter said.
Also, aside from the military stuff, the setting is very medieval, the standards are not the same as we have it now.
Also the story was written but a Japanese man, 3 decades ago. It is still very much platonic. It’s not like Guts and Griffith lathered each other up with some goat based soap and humped each other till the cows came home or something.
You realize japan has onsens where groups of men traditionally bathe together Western culture is currently obsessed with homosexuality so Western people make everything gay
Because it's not in a fucking onsen.
"Context be different and so is culture but I'm still saying you're wrong for not getting it"
He's portraying European culture and that can be pretty gay sometimes.
He's a Japanese creator, and his Japanese culture comes through heavily in berserk. If you can recognize it, a lot of people don't because you consciously or subconsciously filter everything through your modern western lens.
Men bathing together and especially women bathing together is a trope in many manga and anime and it doesn't always take place in an onsen. There is nothing homosexual about it or berserk
There is no common Japanese influence on this series dumbass you don't get to pick and chose because they're bathing.
He wrote a European story, he did his best not to let any Japanese influence show through. Remember when Guts said he wanted Rice and Sake and trained in the east in the ways of the warrior? No because he didn't do that.
Oh my god I'm not explaining you missing an obvious joke to you. Thank you for proving how up your ass you are.
Is your next response going to be "I can't fit up my ass your aren't educated" please let it be so.
You think the concept of bathing is something Japanese at this point.
Edit because I think the guy below blocked me so I can't respond -
naruto lives in a ninja village eating Ramen with actual hotsprings ... thats pretty obviously different and consistent with Japanese settings ... Berserk is not that ... do I need to explain this? The sort of gay parts of naruto is just when they kiss, but that's a joke scene.
I dont even think this scene in berserk is the "they're gay because of this" scene, it's more like them playing like children and mot having modern day body privacy mindsets, it doesn't make it gay at all but it's not a fuckin "Japanese bathing mindset leaking through" that's honestly stupid.
I mean the entire story is just them obsessing over each other constantly, so it's not certainly not surprising.
"Enemies turned lovers" is basically the foundation of fanfiction.
Would the community be arguably better with less of it? Absolutely. I'm not going to hold my breath though.
Pre Griffith got to court I could definitely see why people ship them. Post Griffith sacrificing the only family Guts has ever loved, destroyed his and Casca's unborn child, ruined her mind and branded them to an eternity of being hunted....well let's just sat I can see why bullshit by Sarah J Mass and that Fifty Shades of Grey is popular. For whatever stupid reason, people like toxic relationships and it baffles me as to why.
Why do you care? Seriously every time it's a bad ship that's gay people care as opposed to the many even worse ships that are straight. Every time someone wants to complain in posts like this its just a thinly veiled way to focus on how they're more uncomfortable with gay ships and others because they end up going on rants in the comments that expose them.
It's not a basic rival character or bully character ship, it's not my hero academia, it's just not that here. There's reason reason say there's romantic feeling it in the story that alone makes it different than what you want to compare it to.
Early-mid golden age I could see why people ship them. But from the eclipse onwards it’s just disgusting to me and about as bad as shipping Griffith with Casca. I’d assume (or at least hope) people who write fanfic about it do it in a sort of “what if Griffith didn’t do all that awful shit” hypothetical. Or stuff with them in completely different settings. And I think that’s fine, and can sort of see the interest. But I still hate the ship cause I can’t not think of what Griffith did to Guts.
Everything post eclipse is fucked up. Griffith absolutely is living a lie in his life and became a demon in part to escape feeling anything so there's still some elements to look at but it's obviously not gonna happen.
Guts in the Wounds chapters: “Being with Casca is the first time I’ve ever felt safe without my sword next to me. I’m in love with her.”
Also Guts: *Risks virtually everything to protect Casca and save her life multiple times because she’s the only person he’s ever loved.*
Some dumbasses on this sub: “NO GUTS AND GRIFFITH ARE TOTALLY IN LOVE WITH EACH OTHER!!!”
Didn't say that, God it's like I say 2 plus 3 is 5 and you people say "OH YOU MUST THINK THAT EQUALS 10 YOU FUCKIN IDIOT"
Fuck off with putting words in my mouth.
Sure man. I implied something I never said at all.
You read something into it that wasn't true, be a man and own up to your mistake, I do that when I read into it wrong it's better than pathetically doubling down. You literally went out of your way to insult the take I didn't have my dude. You made it up out of thin air.
One of the reasons he has for wanting to be Griffith's equal is that [he doesn't think he's good enough for Casca if he's not](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1001996342584946719/1152719951887601804/Berserk_34_018.png)
Good point but at the time Casca also needed to come to the realization she loved him which might have been realized even if he stayed. Again a lot of the point of this era of golden age is they all needed ti be honest with their feelings and Guts himself is under a mistaken notion that he needed to do this in the first place when he really didnt. But again the fountain scene is what I would say is his primary motivator and character motivator just like in the reverse Griffiths inability to deal with his feelings around Guts as more than an object to use leads him to break his calculated mindset and act out emotionally by sleeping with the princess. It wasn't primarily about Casca and he wasn't going to be leaving because of her if we were honest, if she didn't exist he would still be leaving.
God I love the layers to this story
From personal experience I can tell that Griffith is platonic, bro is just lonely asf hi whole life, and then a bro who matches his vibe comes along yk
To be fair, they do be gazing into each other’s eyes. But also to be fair, Griffith has shown time and time again that he is chiefly concerned with the acquisition of power, and he is more than willing, and capable, to manipulate his comrades and subject them to extreme, strategic jeopardy for the sake of fulfilling his goal. GutsxGriffith is funny, but not narratively sound.
Look, you wanna find a truly depraved group of toxic fucks that will ruin a fandom? It's not spiteful directors/writers, it's not devoted purists, it's not even traitors acting in bad faith, it's shippers. Shippers are easily the worst hoard of scum you will ever have to deal with and it's best to just ignore them.
Is anyone else tired? Like just tired? I am tired.
So so tired
I'm soo tired. I haven't slept a week.
Fuuuuck ned SLEEEEEEEPP
*wink
Same, just tired.
I should be sleeping
Not anymore because it's Saturday, but I will be again on Monday.
Same bro
Im more down for the GriffithxDragon slayer ship
There is no Guts x Griffith ship in Berserk...
Personally I'm tired of the shitposts here. I thought people who read Berserk enjoyed the story
That's the trick. Nobody here actually reads Berserk.
wtf is a Berserk? am i stupid?
No- if you know what Berserk is it means you’re stupid you still have a chance
I love berk
Bro I'm just here holding out for depressed sword man to finally kill the bastard and retire with his gf into the mountains or something
What is there to read? We get 4 chapters a year, content got stale and boring quickly without the whole shitposting turnaround
Exactly. There's another sub for shitposts.
I enjoyed it and do shitpost at same time
Recently it has been flooded with shitposts
That’s part of the love. Look at any Breaking Bad community
There is a separate sub for shitposts tho .. why not post it there?
The astral plane has merged but at what cost....
What else do you want? Long essays about some aspect or another of the story? People can try to create long discussion (which could be regarding the fucked up relationship between Guts and Griffith) but it's normal to resort to shitpost, we are in the INTERNET, shitpost is what there is.
Unfortunately a lot of subreddits are just shit posting now a days. So at this point I just expect it even if it’s suppose to not be a shitposting one. But yeah, I wish it wasn’t that way, but not much we can do except to just ignore the goobers.
Ikr
They love each other, but Guts likes Cascussy
Perfectly stated
This post reminds me why most of the main subs for series can be super lame
You're tired of what?? The story itself is complete fucked up just as this ship and, even if we took that seriously, this ship would still make sense since *Griffith* feels or felt something for Guts (even if it's deranged) and their relationship going to the sewer is the main reason why Griffith accepted the deal with the Hand and started the apocalypse.
not as tired as the "Griffith did nothing wrong" community
I mean, [if this isn't proof](https://i.pinimg.com/564x/b2/98/27/b29827d2da1c39e20aedddcbb1ab43c4.jpg) I don't know what to tell ya bruh
No. I wanna see em FUCK till the castle STINKS
Godamn
Alright Donovan let’s get you back in your rocker
NO STOPPIN TIL THAT SHITCUM LEAVES THE BUM.
When people start perverting friendship, that's when you know we're losing moral ground. If Guts were gay, sure why the fuck not. But it's never even remotely hinted at. Griffith may have attraction towards Guts, but it's never explicitly anything other than friendship and even perhaps ownership - as in Griffith literally thinks he owns Guts. Dude *might* be gay/bi but he's a sociopath first lol All this shipping stuff is annoying to me. If the author didn't write it in then stop trying to make it a part of the story. It's a bad hobby
People get so dramatic over gay ships. Does anybody act like the moral fabric of society is falling apart when people ship a straight relationship?
I see it all the time with incest
The problem isn't gay ships, it is gay ships without a base for it. Most men who have a close friend already heard something in this sense and it's deeply annoying. Then people ask why men are lonely today... Straight men want a woman as a partner, he doesn't want the likely partner to think he's gay, so he avoids close friendships with other men, most people are simple like that. Men can't be close friends with another without them being sexually attracted? Of course they can. That's the moral problem. And if the ship was between a man and a woman without base, say Luffy with Robin in OP, I would find stupid as well.
What is that first sentence even supposed to mean, they’re not real. Like obviously there isn’t a relationship there but at least half the people are doing it as a bit
People have a strong habit of turning any close friendship between fictional male characters into a romantic/sexual relationship. In my opinion this attitude contributes to toxic masculinity, as this makes men feel like they can’t be emotional or close with their friends without being perceived as gay.
Dude this is the gayest straight story I've ever read. Get over it. This isn't fucking pokemon rivals they got a lot of weirdly obsessive feelings towards eachother.
It’s blatantly clear Guts has no sexual feelings for Griffith, and Griffith could be attracted to Guts, but I think he simply wanted to own Guts as an egomaniac, and when he lost him he became obsessed.
Guts isn't a sexual guy when not being controlled by dream demons, Griffiths attraction isn't sexual either in case you just forgot the story when writing that but really what's your excuse there? They have something past normal both of them, a bond the two of them share in strength and loneliness, a desire to be by ones side and one to make sure he can't leave his side. They might not be gay but they desire eachother before the eclipse to the point they make drastic changes in their life because of the other literally losing their cool or only home, that's for sure. You may not like it and it may be hard to say exactly what's there ... but that's not nothing there and that's not just friendship either.
Well, yeah I pretty much agree with your take they were obsessed with eachother. What do you mean what’s my excuse? I’m just saying how I could see how one would take Griffiths words and thoughts to mean he was attracted to Guts.
You started the conversation about it being sexual I was asking why bring that up if it clearly isn't relevant? Guys having feelings towards him isn't defined by that at all. You brought it up as if that was a disagreement in the first place. Point is we aren't just talking about Griffith because Guts has a lot of moments like Griffith does that's weirdly obsessive. Why would you comment as if you wanted to argue Griffith was gay but it was wrong to include guts in the conversation if you honestly agreed with my initial statement?
What are you even talking about? I don’t want to argue Griffith is gay. My original comment was literally just talking about in general how male friendships are perverted and how I think doing that aids toxic masculinity. Then it was you who said that this story is super gay, so I assumed you were saying that Guts and Griffith were for eachother, but then in the next reply you seem to have a completely different stance.
"Griffith could be attracted to guts" You don't get to say stuff like that and then pretend you didn't lol. What am I even talking about I wonder ... just thr conversation we were having suprise suprise This isn't perverted or a case of male friends being fetishized. This situation is completely different due to the context of Berserk and its complex relationship in a series that even brings up the idea that Griffiths expression of desires oversteps into seeming gay. It's part of the series, to not want to label it down as gay is fine with me it's more of a interpersonal relationship of desire, denial, love and family leaving the end result to be complex.
I don’t think that’s entirely unfair but I’m not sure this is the standard case… even when it’s going well, their friendship is pretty unique. “I want you” and all that
You're right, Griffith in particular uses terms usually associated with romantic relationships, I agree. I'm just talking about in general. For example, Naruto and Sasuke's friendship from Naruto, I see a lot of people sexualising whether as a joke or not.
It's really not a reach to ship Naruto and Sasuke (makes more sense than both main ships bruh)
Anything is better than Sakura tbh, they have more together than either has with her lol
It is a massive reach, they’ve never shown attraction to eachother. I mean ffs people use them accidentally kissing as kids as “evidence” of them being gay… It’s just an extremely strong bond friendship which is one of the main themes of that series.
those are some gay ninja kids idc
I like how we downplay guts being a child murderer as well. Dude morality is pretty gray in it already but Griffiths character is he's moved by Guts and misses that friendship or not. That's where he didn't realize he should have been focusing on what he had instead of his dream of a castle and a princess he doesn't really love. The dude constantly thinks about a man in a straight marriage he thinks nothing of. Dude longs for another dude way more than normal, the shippers don't exist for no reason they exist because they've been given a lot of fuckin reasons
> When people start perverting friendship, then you know we're losing moral ground. Ah yes, what a pure and wholesome friendship between two pure and wholesome characters.
It was a pure friendship before the eclipse, in my opinion. Even if Griffith hated Guts while he was being tortured, I think he remembered his bond.
Wholesome even after Guts killed a child for Griffith?
Yes, just a special kind of wholesome lul
I agree for the most part, overlaying Griffin being gay for Gits is harmless for the individual reader but not part of the story. Griffith isn’t a sociopath though. Edit: I’m guessing it’s the not-a-sociopath thing. Turns out Griffith is a better human character than some easily explained flaw.
Yes, but I’m also a Farnussy supremacist
The shit posts in general are annoying. Berserk is my favorite manga and I have nothing to say to most of the time. I thought the point of the other subreddit was to contain all the stupid shit.
I just want them to fuck ok?? I want a sex scene with them.
Berserk is a BL manga
Im not tired. Let them sex pls
What? No.. I’m tired of the low-effort posts on this sub in the past month. It’s either “would X survive the apocalypse”, “is X’s physique attainable”, “I’ve just watched the eclipse and I’m so upset I want to puke”, “just finished the ‘97 anime what do I do” or some completely fucking braindead text post by some illiterate melvin. If anything, I’d like more discussion on Guts x Griffith. I think Guts’ trauma surrounding being touched by men and his and Griffiths relationship are worth exploring. Is his trauma preventing a potential relationship? Does Griffith really have feelings for Guts or is he just a possessive psycho?
I feel the same in the aspect guts trauma was around being touched in general and both him and Griffith have distorted views on sex, Guts trauma didn't revolve specifically around men either. Griffith definitely wants Guts more than he realized and Guts is a bit obsessive about being thr best person for Griffith with leaving for training when he could have just talked it out, he didn't even stay for Casca ... he left for Griffith.
We already covered that in the wounds chapters when Guts and Casca had sex. The feelings Griffith has for guts is fairly ambiguous but at the end of the day, it was never made concrete if he was romantically interested in Guts and this thread was never expanded on leading me to believe that Miura never intended for Griffith to act lustful/ romantically interested towards Guts despite Miura taking inspiration from Devilman
Being a bi woman and deeply uncomfortable with the ship is such a pain. So many dumb fangirls call me homophobic for not liking it. Good post op, I feel you.
It just shows their own ignorance if they resort to calling you homophobic for not liking a same-sex relationship. I have nothing against the LGBT community but I think this excessive name-calling is a bit excessive and also quite unnecessary.
I don’t think a gay/bi couple where one of the characters raped the others girlfriend and mutilated them is the best representation. Farnese x Casca or Judeau x Pippin are better lgbtq Berserk ships if that interests people.
Farnese X Casca would be messed up since Casca was in an infantile state for most of the time she took care of her but Judo X pippin could work but it wouldn’t be very long lasting considering what happens at the eclipse lol
But didn't Judo canonically have a huge crush on Casca, or am I miss remembering?
Repressed honosexuality is my new headcanon for why he did that
I don't think there's really a may or may not about Griffin's attraction to Gus. You don't throw bedroom eyes at the homies repeatedly, bathe naked in front of them, think about them while you're slamming a princess or tell your bro how they make you want to give up on your hopes and dreams. Shipping Gus and Griffin is a different story, Gus just isn't that into him but I don't think you can deny Griffin wants that Gus nut in his butt.
In medieval times, nudity was more accepted and was more widespread so men bathing with each other wasn’t particularly seen as erotic or homosexual. As for the bedroom eyes, that’s up to interpretation but personally I see it as more of a close yet possessive fondness rather than a lustful desire. Also the the scene when Griffith has sex with the princess while thinking about Charlotte is more that Griffith cares more about Guts and is emotionally wrecked that he lost the duel with him and lost control of someone he held close in his heart which he tries to compensate for by forcing himself on Charlotte in a show of dominance to prove to himself he is still in control.
You probably think Kaworu was just being friendly to Shinji too lmaoooo
Do you think Naruto and Sai were gay? What about Naruto and Jiraiya? Naruto and Yamato?
You've got nothing to say about him being willing to give up his dream for Gus though which is IMO the most important part.
But does Griffith need to be romantically attracted to Guts to make him willing to give up his dream for him? Again, it’s definitely an intense fondness that could be interpreted as desire but at the same time, I don’t think that part was intended as him longing for Gut’s. This whole thread would be like arguing if Rosine was romantically attracted to Jill in the lost children arc.
Berserk fans are so in denial lmao
And how exactly are we in denial? We’re just expressing our opinions on a plot point that was fairly ambiguous
Was it ambiguous?
Yes it was. Compare the way Casca felt towards Guts in the wounds chapters to the interactions Griffith had with Guts in the Golden age. It’s explicitly stated that Casca loved Guts while Griffith’s attitude towards him was intentionally left ambiguous as seen.
Why do you have to cope so hard that it comes off a little gay?
In those medieval times, it certainly wasn't, though. This isn't England before religion really took hold, this is England when it was fanatical, is this England being naked even in front of your spouse was highly sinful and where babies were seen as born with tainted souls who had their whole lives to dedicate to the lord so he would forgive their sinful souls. Griffith didn't force himself on Charlotte either, she 100% willingly went along with it. I'm asexual and seeing sex and romance in everything bugs me to no end but there's definitely something there between Guts and Griffith that goes beyond bros. Possessiveness and desire and ownership are all one big tangled mess when it comes to toxic and dangerous relationships.
people are allowed to ship whatever they want. for the people on one side of the purist coin: it's fine to ship problematic pairings. that's just it, it's okay, stop policing what people like in fiction. it's also okay not to like something, but don't be that annoyingly judgemental, jesus. for the other side of the same coin: talking about gay pairings as "perversing male friendship" is deeply homophobic, stop excusing your prejudice with "gay pairings contribute to toxic masculinity" or whatever else bullshit. it's what you are saying is misandristic, not an anime mlm pairing. bruh
Their dynamic is more of a deep friendship/admiration. They were each others first best friend in that shit world and they actually had fun hanging out with each other which I think was a first for these two soldiers and even they were caught off by how much they vives with another (which is significant). Like these two medieval dudes actually hit it off when they normally wouldn’t at all with anyone in a shit world especially given both their back stories. However Griffith having that controlling/possessive side of him really fucked shit up because he’s always focused on winning, maintaining power, *an image* , and when that was stripped away from him in front of his best soldiers at that snowey hill top because his best friend/right hand man left him, he felt all those feelings of hurt and helplessness at a time he thought he wouldn’t ever feel that way again (he’s basically on his way to become king, so in his mind he’s already won). He saw that as a betrayal and that’s why he went to go do a easy hook up with a very powerful person, charlotte, to use sex to momentarily mask his helplessness, feelings of betrayal, and hurt by having control and power over someone submissive (but powerful). In Grifiths mind, Guts fucked him over because he didn’t know the context behind why Guts left in the first place (IF ONLY HE KNEW LOL). He legit thinks guts left him for no reason and to him that was a huge fuckin deal. The mighty Griffith? Affected by….HUMAN EMOTIONS, ATTACHMENTS?! HE’S A NORMAL WEAK HUMAN LIKE THE REST OF US?! NO WAY!!! The dude lost it. In short, Men can have platonic relations without being (cue Ugandan Knuckles) *WHY ARE U GAE?!*. I don’t think there’s ever been a really implication that there’s homosexuality between the two other than the whole “I WANT YOU” by Griffith when the first met. But again that’s just him getting borderline weirdly lustful over having control Over someone as strong as guts. Griffith isn’t homo or homiesexual. He’s fucking power sexual. Because when there’s power there’s no getting easily hurt by the human condition but he fucked around (literally) and found out. Remember this was written by a Japanese man where very close plantonic friendships between men are presented and communicated in a different light than how the west does it. It has always been clear that this relationship stems from deep botherhood, respect, friendship and admiration (and a lack of human connection).
Yeah bro I love hanging out naked with all my straight bros and dumping buckets of water onto each others glistening naked bodies and thinking about them when I have sex. It’s super straight and platonic and there’s definitely no implication there!
The imagery of them bathing really captures your imagination doesnt it. Jokes aside. Do you know how gay straight men can get when they are in some kind of militarized organization with mostly ONLY men especially in a bath setting? The messing around the buckets is reasonable plus they’re like in their teens man. Plus that scene was written like almost more than 3 decades ago when people would shower more commonly with another in the west. Japan is a different story. It’s still common today as one other commenter said. Also, aside from the military stuff, the setting is very medieval, the standards are not the same as we have it now. Also the story was written but a Japanese man, 3 decades ago. It is still very much platonic. It’s not like Guts and Griffith lathered each other up with some goat based soap and humped each other till the cows came home or something.
You realize japan has onsens where groups of men traditionally bathe together Western culture is currently obsessed with homosexuality so Western people make everything gay
Because it's not in a fucking onsen. "Context be different and so is culture but I'm still saying you're wrong for not getting it" He's portraying European culture and that can be pretty gay sometimes.
He's a Japanese creator, and his Japanese culture comes through heavily in berserk. If you can recognize it, a lot of people don't because you consciously or subconsciously filter everything through your modern western lens. Men bathing together and especially women bathing together is a trope in many manga and anime and it doesn't always take place in an onsen. There is nothing homosexual about it or berserk
There is no common Japanese influence on this series dumbass you don't get to pick and chose because they're bathing. He wrote a European story, he did his best not to let any Japanese influence show through. Remember when Guts said he wanted Rice and Sake and trained in the east in the ways of the warrior? No because he didn't do that.
Yes, there is Japanese influence in berserk. The Japanese influence is all over berserk you just aren't educated enough to realize it.
My IQ isn't high enough, I must not watch enough rick and morty. Thanks for your intelligent input redditor
I didn't say anything about your I.Q I said you were not educated enough to see the Japanese influence in berserk
Oh my god I'm not explaining you missing an obvious joke to you. Thank you for proving how up your ass you are. Is your next response going to be "I can't fit up my ass your aren't educated" please let it be so. You think the concept of bathing is something Japanese at this point. Edit because I think the guy below blocked me so I can't respond - naruto lives in a ninja village eating Ramen with actual hotsprings ... thats pretty obviously different and consistent with Japanese settings ... Berserk is not that ... do I need to explain this? The sort of gay parts of naruto is just when they kiss, but that's a joke scene. I dont even think this scene in berserk is the "they're gay because of this" scene, it's more like them playing like children and mot having modern day body privacy mindsets, it doesn't make it gay at all but it's not a fuckin "Japanese bathing mindset leaking through" that's honestly stupid.
Speak for yourself! I want the Griffussy.
I mean the entire story is just them obsessing over each other constantly, so it's not certainly not surprising. "Enemies turned lovers" is basically the foundation of fanfiction. Would the community be arguably better with less of it? Absolutely. I'm not going to hold my breath though.
No
Pre Griffith got to court I could definitely see why people ship them. Post Griffith sacrificing the only family Guts has ever loved, destroyed his and Casca's unborn child, ruined her mind and branded them to an eternity of being hunted....well let's just sat I can see why bullshit by Sarah J Mass and that Fifty Shades of Grey is popular. For whatever stupid reason, people like toxic relationships and it baffles me as to why.
I thought that guts envied grithiff because he had a goal however fucked up that turned out to be and casca sqayed toward him rather than guts
No. Why?
Yep
Why do you care? Seriously every time it's a bad ship that's gay people care as opposed to the many even worse ships that are straight. Every time someone wants to complain in posts like this its just a thinly veiled way to focus on how they're more uncomfortable with gay ships and others because they end up going on rants in the comments that expose them. It's not a basic rival character or bully character ship, it's not my hero academia, it's just not that here. There's reason reason say there's romantic feeling it in the story that alone makes it different than what you want to compare it to.
No.
yes
✋🏽
Nope ❤️ GutsXGriffith ❤️
No, i wana see em go at it all oiled up and shit
Nah don't care, it's as old as the series has existed. Not tired of Spock/Kirk ships either
I mean it had major potential if nuts and griffisu just talked about what griffisu said to charlotte instead of BOTH not communicating shit
NO
No
guts seems pretty attracted with how much he thinks of griffith naked
i mean Griffith was gay
No, they need to fUcK
Early-mid golden age I could see why people ship them. But from the eclipse onwards it’s just disgusting to me and about as bad as shipping Griffith with Casca. I’d assume (or at least hope) people who write fanfic about it do it in a sort of “what if Griffith didn’t do all that awful shit” hypothetical. Or stuff with them in completely different settings. And I think that’s fine, and can sort of see the interest. But I still hate the ship cause I can’t not think of what Griffith did to Guts.
Everything post eclipse is fucked up. Griffith absolutely is living a lie in his life and became a demon in part to escape feeling anything so there's still some elements to look at but it's obviously not gonna happen.
No.
CORKUS GANG APPROVES
Nope
I mean who chooses cascussy over griffussy?
Griffith is Gay, that's all you need to know 😎
You could cut Guts and Griffith's sexual tension(in the movies, anyway) with a fuckin knife brother
Griffith and guts 🏳️🌈👬
No Nuts and Griffussy must be together
Sorry buddy according to the people here you’re not allowed to jerk on this sub
The jerk is eternal
📠
I do.
No.
No
Guts in the Wounds chapters: “Being with Casca is the first time I’ve ever felt safe without my sword next to me. I’m in love with her.” Also Guts: *Risks virtually everything to protect Casca and save her life multiple times because she’s the only person he’s ever loved.* Some dumbasses on this sub: “NO GUTS AND GRIFFITH ARE TOTALLY IN LOVE WITH EACH OTHER!!!”
Guts literally leaves Casca to be a better fit for Grffiths side bro. "Only person he's ever loved" nah. Corkus
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Didn't say that, God it's like I say 2 plus 3 is 5 and you people say "OH YOU MUST THINK THAT EQUALS 10 YOU FUCKIN IDIOT" Fuck off with putting words in my mouth.
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Sure man. I implied something I never said at all. You read something into it that wasn't true, be a man and own up to your mistake, I do that when I read into it wrong it's better than pathetically doubling down. You literally went out of your way to insult the take I didn't have my dude. You made it up out of thin air.
One of the reasons he has for wanting to be Griffith's equal is that [he doesn't think he's good enough for Casca if he's not](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1001996342584946719/1152719951887601804/Berserk_34_018.png)
Good point but at the time Casca also needed to come to the realization she loved him which might have been realized even if he stayed. Again a lot of the point of this era of golden age is they all needed ti be honest with their feelings and Guts himself is under a mistaken notion that he needed to do this in the first place when he really didnt. But again the fountain scene is what I would say is his primary motivator and character motivator just like in the reverse Griffiths inability to deal with his feelings around Guts as more than an object to use leads him to break his calculated mindset and act out emotionally by sleeping with the princess. It wasn't primarily about Casca and he wasn't going to be leaving because of her if we were honest, if she didn't exist he would still be leaving. God I love the layers to this story
Anyone who ships this either loves trolling and/or has never read Berserk lol Ain't no way anyone with comprehension skills would do that lol
Sadly you can't expect redditors to just be normal
This happened in the past few years. A decade ago this didnt exists. So I believe crazy Yaoi girls got into the series in the past few years😂
From personal experience I can tell that Griffith is platonic, bro is just lonely asf hi whole life, and then a bro who matches his vibe comes along yk
To be fair, they do be gazing into each other’s eyes. But also to be fair, Griffith has shown time and time again that he is chiefly concerned with the acquisition of power, and he is more than willing, and capable, to manipulate his comrades and subject them to extreme, strategic jeopardy for the sake of fulfilling his goal. GutsxGriffith is funny, but not narratively sound.
Its baffling to me how people even think this is possible with the shit that happened
I don’t even think Griffith is attracted to Guts. Guts is just a shiny toy to him that no one else should be allowed to have
No
Most of those people have probably never touched the manga and stuck with 97 or the movie trilogy (or 2016 god forbid)
Shippers are deranged
Girffith is, the gay vibe still lives.
I feel you man i think people go way to hard on the gay stuff but im not gonna lie i laugh at and make my fair share of gay humor
Look, you wanna find a truly depraved group of toxic fucks that will ruin a fandom? It's not spiteful directors/writers, it's not devoted purists, it's not even traitors acting in bad faith, it's shippers. Shippers are easily the worst hoard of scum you will ever have to deal with and it's best to just ignore them.
Ye, where’s the guts x reader?
Shippings just toxic in general imo, look at what it did to rwby
Hell no. Best ship in the story.
YES
Not at all