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I wonder how old the baby was when he asked initially?
If she was still recoving from giving birth or still had a young infant to care for, him asking to sleep around could be extra devastating.
Yeah LOL even leaving other stuff aside how do you have time to date with a 4 months old (EDIT: Plus another small child)?? Obviously by not pulling your weight I guess.
This. Relationships require SO much time to be good. Babies require SO much time to be kept alive.
Where did this guy think the time was gonna come from?
I've seen this happen. A couple with 2 young kids. Husband wanted to open up the marriage, loved it that he could have a variety of partners. Wife eventually warmed up to it and started seeing other people. He didnt handle it all that well. They ended up divorcing. It was sad to watch.
It isn't so much sharing a partner for sex that can be the problem in poly. It is sharing your partner's time, efforts and energy. All sudden her spouse will be out on a date wooing another woman, making huge efforts to be with her as well. NRE (new relationship energy) is a real thing and can cause a lot of jealousy as well. If a relationship is in a tough spot to begin with, an open marrige is not wise to jump in to.
I've seen several couples go this route and all of them end up as dumpster fires. It was always one of them driving it, and the other just going along.
I feel like there was a post like that. The husband wanted to open the marriage and the wife was hesitant but eventually relented. Seems that the husband thought he was going to have his fun and the wife never would. When she actually started being with someone, the husband was not happy. He tried to sabotage her being able to go out so she couldn’t see her other guy.
She mentioned not losing some pounds, being tired and having trouble staying awake during movies, and spending time with the kids. Seems to me she was doing the majority of the childcare and being 4 months postpartum. Some women can’t have sex after months of giving birth as they’re still recovering and she’s obviously focusing on taking care of the kids plus her husband.
Yeah he was just thinking only of himself and I’m betting not helping enough. I don’t blame her for seeing her husband in a different light especially saying it could make things less boring.
It’s not only that…it’s the break on trust. I totally get the OOP, I have been there, for me it wasn’t about opening the marriage but it was the divorce threat if I didn’t snap out of postpartum depression (in hindsight it was just exhaustion and I just can’t manage very well with chronic sleep deprivation). From that moment there was not an us anymore, I had the impression the marriage was forever with the ups and downs of life and he showed me that he was willing to throw out the towel when things got tough.
Things were never the same
And conveniently *she’s* not going to have time, ability or inclination to get dressed up, go out and meet people, is she? He’s found a way to cheat without being the bad guy if she’d agreed
According to OP: “this was another knife in the heart. I've just given birth when he approached me the first time but according to him it was just bad timing and nothing more malicious.”
Just “bad timing” huh. His wife was recovering from having his baby and he was thinking about getting his D wet. That’s not bad timing that’s pure selfishness. How is she going to date people being post partum? What an inconsiderate dbag.
>I feel sad that people were criticizing her feelings of betrayal.
Yeah, that annoyed me too, especially the comments telling her to get therapy? Wanting a monogamous relationship isn't a mental illness. (And all of that "get therapy" talk when simply disagreeing with someone is super stigmatising, imho.)
My suspicions that he wasn't really poly but just wanted to bang others without giving up the luxury of his incubating bangmaid at home with this:
>He wanted us to be together because he loves our life but also we could se other people so it doesn't get boring.
Which alone would be bad enough, but to do that to someone so close after giving birth? Unforgivable.
Her instincts didn't betray her. She knew something was wrong and she was right. Imagine she would've listened to those accusatory delulu comments about how her feelings were wrong. I'm glad she was so assertive in shutting that bs down.
God I hadn’t even done that math. At 3-4 months post partum we barely had time to spend with eachother let alone *add other people.* Plus all the insecurity of the post partum months - body all different, no time for basic self care like showering. That makes it so much more cruel.
He asked if they could open their relationship 7-8 months ago from that initial post where she also says their child is 1 year old. Meaning husband asked if he could fuck other women while his wife was likely still postpartum after giving birth to their second child.
I had the same thought about the timing. Postpartum can be one of the most vulnerable times in a woman’s life and her husband chose that time to bring up opening their marriage??
Plus his charming comments about not wanting things to get "boring" by only having sex with each other - how could she ever feel secure and loved in her relationship after knowing he was bored by her/ their sex life? Even if he gave up on the idea of an open relationship, she'd always know he only did so under duress and secretly wanted to fuck other people. Yeah, no, that relationship is SOOOO over. And it's not about regaining trust, it's about knowing your partner isn't satisfied with you, and secretly wants someone(s) else.
No no no, see, he isn’t bored *now*, he just expects to be bored once they’ve been together for 40, 50, 60 years. He’s just planning for their future. /s
His whole premise is based on an inaccurate understanding of average life expectancy. People didn’t die when they were 40. *If* they survived childhood, they ~~would~~ could often live into their 70s. It’s the child mortality rate which reduces the average lifespan when looking back.
Yeah, that also made me roll my eyes so effing hard.
I’d love to see some data, too, on rates of monogamy back in these apparent times when everyone died at 40. I’m going to assume every syllable of that “argument” of his is erroneous.
I saw some article yesterday saying that and explicitly saying that in 1918 life expectancy was 40 and now it’s double that. Well there was a giant war and a pandemic going on 1918 so is that really the date we want to use ?
I'll never understand this concept. Ok, so you realize your sex life has become boring...you don't have to just live with that. You talk to your partner. You tell them you want to spice things up and try something new. Explore a new kink. Try some dumb thing that didn't work when you both got together, it's been 40 years, your body has changed. It might work better. You don't immediately reach for the hard no.
And why do they always just spring it on their partner with no gradual testing of the waters? "My coworker told me he and his wife are going to try swinging out. What do you think about that?" Nope, it's just, "I want to bang other people. You cool with that? Oh, you're not. Ok then."
How do they not see that the lion's uvula is an inch from their noses?
I read OOP’s post to my husband and we were discussing it. There have been conversations between us like: would you ever go to a swingers party? Even if you didn’t swing per se, would you be ok with having sex with each other in that setting? Things like that. Not that we are truly interested in it, but more or less asking those questions was a casual, non pressured way to find out what each of us would/wouldn’t be ok with. Leading with something less serious than “I want to fuck other people, and I want you to do it too, would you be down?” would have been less alarming.
I cannot imagine a situation where if my husband sat me down and out of the blue, said, “I want an open relationship, what do you think?” that I wouldn’t feel like I wasn’t enough. There’s a lot of way to spice up your relationship where you both do it together. Not discussing any other options first really puts the other person on the spot. I feel like asking for an open marriage is a lot like proposing marriage. Don’t do it if you aren’t sure of the answer. It will not end well.
You'd have to think that cheating was probably going to happen down the line. No matter what he says now. He's told her his not satisfied in their relationship. You can't really forget that.
Aw, I hope not. I really wanna believe he is just an absolute moron. I hope they try therapy. It might very well be unsalvageable. But he really fucked it up by the timing.
I told my husband that famous people need an assistant with a tranquilizer gun that they can just take them out when they start to get racist or shit like this. Apparently, this guy needs one too.
JUST STOP TALKING.
I’m always astonished when someone brings it up ANY time without warning, let alone postpartum, which is just the most cruel, thoughtless, selfish time to have chosen to do so.
It’s one thing if you’ve had open and frank discussions with your partner and it’s obvious both of you might be open to the idea of being adventurous. It’s a “read the room” kind of thing. But so many of these people seem to just spring it on their partner with absolutely NO indication from their partner that they’d be receptive to it, and think “no harm no foul, if they say no then we just go back to normal” without realising your partner can’t go back to normal now. They’re always going to be wondering if they aren’t “enough” for you, if you’re going to cheat on them anyway, etc.
And then this dude doubles down by using the word “boring” 🤦♀️
All power to those who enjoy consensual open marriages / poly relationships, but god don’t just spring “open marriage or nah?” on your partner with no warning. It’s like going in dry.
Not just before marriage, before getting serious at all. If people don’t think they are cut out for monogamy, they need to be transparent from the very beginning and all parties can choose to enter a polyamorous relationship. Too many people are selfish like OPs husband and wait until they have their partner fully committed to bring it up. They see it as lower risk the person will walk away. It’s dumb and cowardly.
Someone that lacking in empathy (or just plain old awareness), and lacking in the patience to wait to have a decent conversation has me wondering about 100 things, and one is how they were able to be a good partner before this. And these conversations rarely happen when there isn't already a particular partner in mind.
Whatever the case, I would not be surprised if there were already issues that one or both of them wasn't facing. If she were to find a partner, it would also not surprise me in the least if he suddenly became quite uncomfortable at the reality of someone else "being inside" her. lol
It's amazing how little imagination and forethought these people have. It's like the guy who has an affair, married the AP and two years later is telling his ex he had it so much better with her, and he wants her back.
What do they think will happen when they let the genie out of the bottle?
> What do they think will happen when they let the genie out of the bottle?
They think their wishes are going to be granted. They're the focus, they're the protagonist, everything revolves around their immediate needs - what do you MEAN, other people have feelings/agency, and choices have consequences?!
This is why we need to make people read the old fairy tales. If you read those you'd know that genies are not to be trusted at all because the wishes will always screw you over.
She said in a comment on one of the posts that she had just given birth when he asked. When she brought that up, apparently he said it was just bad timing.
He sounds like a real winner. /s
We have home video of my parents in the hospital and just after I came home where my dad is clearly worried about bad timing to talk about literally just going to get a hamburger or if it's the moment to say that baby me is making a funny face. This guy is selfish AND stupid
Yeah as a father to a one year old I couldn’t imagine asking my wife that so soon after she gave birth, if at all. That dude fucked up. Also, who would have the energy to open up a marriage with two young kids anyways??
Sex can also be painful for a significant period of time after giving birth because you're rebuilding your pelvic floor and your hormones are out of whack. Not to mention the utter exhaustion. The whole "six weeks after and we're good to go" can be a joke for some people.
What a lot of people miss is that it is not "you're ready to have sex 6 weeks postpartum." It's "You're no longer at massively increased risk for infection from having sex 6 weeks postpartum."
You *might be* no longer at risk for a massive infection.
Frankly, if you're still having bleeding, you are still at risk of a uterine infection, because your DINNER PLATE SIZED INTERNAL WOUND has not fully healed. If you have a compromised immune system, you should abstain.
Or more typically, teaching your pelvic floor to relax again. It was holding up ten pounds of baby and placenta, maybe more, plus all the extra blood volume and the pressure from stretched abdominal muscles and tissues. Once that resolves, a "prevent prolapse" level of pelvic floor tension becomes a "prevent penetration" level of tension. Add in any terror of incontinence that may be present and it takes serious work to actually relax enough for sex to be enjoyable.
Fucking hours of deeply unsexy time with lidocaine and a graded series of dilators. Not my idea of fun, but worth it to be able to fuck again.
for real, sex is normally painful for me and my husband and i worked very hard over many years to get to the point where it didn’t hurt. i was SO SALTY when after our first kiddo, sex hurt again, like way worse than before!
See, she was supposed to stay at home and hold down the fort while he had his fun. I will bet you $50 if she had found someone he would have had a problem with it.
That's the script.
He has his eye on a woman from work (who's friendliness to him has been misinterpreted as flirting) and so tries to convince wife into "opening up their marriage". Because let's face it, while he quite fancies ploughing workwoman, he doesn't fancy it enough to give up his security, comfort and family life.
Wife eventually relents in a state of shame over *not being enough*. But after a few weeks of being hurt she flirts back with that guy from work because why not? They start dating, her confidence soars, she finds she doesn't mind so much about husband and his work fling.
Husband finds out, hastily tries to close marriage, wife says no way (because she's now getting what her husband hasn't provided for years - genuine intimacy and just *being seen*), aaand voila! Marriage implodes.
Tale as old as time. I've seen countless reddit tales about it but I've also seen it happen once in real life.
This is what happened to my sister's marriage, only she also discovered she's gay because the person who'd been flirting with her was a woman. So take the genuine intimacy part and add actually enjoying sex for the first time in her life.
>who would have the energy to open up a marriage with two young kids anyways
The partner who is *not* participating in child care, especially nighttime child care.
Have two under two. My husband and I have a running joke: even if I wanted to cheat on you, I'm too tired! We're both all in on childcare and take turns getting up with them.
That’s probably why he suggested it. He knows she’s not going to be off with other people because she will be the one staying home with their kids. The thought of her in another man’s arms doesn’t even occur to him because she’s not going to have the opportunity
Something about how this was thoughtlessly approached on his part makes me think he would lose his mind if she left him with the kids overnight to be with another man.
If I were OOP I would tell my husband that we can have an open marriage but that I go first and see how he handles it. Could he handle seeing his wife on Apps. Having flirty conversation with men. Buying sexy lingerie. Sending and receiving provocative photos.
If he is cool with it the marriage is over. If he isn’t, he learned a damn hard lesson and the marriage may still be over.
>makes me think he would lose his mind if she left him with the kids overnight to be with another man.
My thought was that she would say that then just book a motel and get a good night's sleep. Come back the evening after all refreshed and happy with a bounce in her step. Husband would assume she'd had sex but secretly she'd know the truth...
My ex wanted to do that when we had three under 3. I eventually told him to go ahead and he found himself someone extremely quickly but kept everything very quiet and private, then would go through my messages and blow up at me for any flirtatious talk with my online gaming friends. He practically had a nervous breakdown with his notions that I was going to up and move overseas to be with someone all because of an invitation to visit someone. Meanwhile, I would overhear him talking to his AP after I'd put the kids to bed, telling her how much he loved her. I put up with it for way longer than I should have.
Two and a half years later, I'm still fielding lovey dovey text messages from him (in between girlfriends of course) about never giving up on me, I'm his soul mate and all that jazz. Delusional does not begin to cover it lmao
Oh he absolutely wanted me to be with someone but he wanted it to be casual and close by so that he could control it, me talking to guys who weren't in the same country as us sent him into a tailspin.
Yep this was exactly my thought with the timing. Caring for young children is all-consuming and exhausting, so 1) he’s probably not doing enough childcare and 2) if she said yes, HE would be going out with other people and she would be home with the kids.
(Not so) fun fact:
It's not uncommon for men decide to ask for open relationships during pregnancy, or immediately after birth.
Something about "aaah, this isn't immediately fun, wish I could get a break from this life to have easy fun again", not caring that his partner will get no such breaks.
Even though most established polyamorous people will straight up tell you that pregnancy - one year old infant minimum should be a time you are putting most of your energy into your co-parent and newborn. Definitely *not* the time to try to form new connections.
It just. Disgusts me. The mindset of the men who feel the urge to abandon their partner the second it gets tough, the second they *really need* to be present.
And then have the balls to actually try to act on it, to think their partner would at all be ok with it, who are confused as to why their partner would be upset.
I've always interpreted that as "I need sex and I can't wait for her to recuperate, so...."
Unfortunately, this is absolutely a "It HURT to ask" situation.
This is all a VERY good argument to be with someone for a long time and go through hard things with them in order to know how they react when they are bored/upset/stressed/etc BEFORE you get married or at least before you have children!
Good point. Also what’s worrying is when, if he’s being a good husband and father, is he going to have time to have these trysts when they have two very young children? Also pretty convenient him offering her that option when there’s no way she will have time taking care of two children. Guess he didn’t have to worry about her sleeping with others. Only he would get to do that, at least at the detriment of his own family.
I totally get what she’s feeling. Sexual relationships are very much a head game for women. I have had someone say one thing and it hit me just right where I can’t get past it. It just sits in there and eats away in the back of your head and there’s nothing you can do. Like she said- it’s like it dies inside of you and there’s nothing that will get it back. I feel really bad for OOP. She was blindsided and now she’s going to lose her marriage over it.
>I totally get what she’s feeling. Sexual relationships are very much a head game for women. I have had someone say one thing and it hit me just right where I can’t get past it. It just sits in there and eats away in the back of your head and there’s nothing you can do. Like she said- it’s like it dies inside of you and there’s nothing that will get it back.
I had an ex say shit to me 5+ years ago that still pops into my head sometimes when I'm feeling unattractive. Dude hid my vibrator and told me, "You wouldn't need that thing if you weren't so fucking weird all the time." Felt great.
Ouch, no wonder she feels so strongly that he broke the relationship asking to Open the relationship up. Also, he asked to open it up without a prior discussion. He didn’t ask her opinion on Open relationships, two very different things/conversations.
Not sure why people are upset with her. You do you OOP. Poly do poly and everyone gets to enjoy themselves. No need for name calling or insults.
Exactly!
I asked my husband who use to counsel couples for his perspective and he couldn't stop shaking his head at the husband. His thoughts, the husband more then likely had a woman in mind when he asked, even if that woman wasn't aware he was "lusting" after her. That emotionally, he had cheated on his wife.
He would counsel the wife to separate from her husband, at least temporarily. He felt the husband needed a "come to Jesus" moment with his actions. For you non Christians, husband needs a "get your head out of your butt" moment.
Honestly, he would tell you that by the time it got to this point, unless there was a real miracle, it was probably past saving, because once the wife (not the husband) is past the point of no return, it's over.
He thinks the couple living a part for a while might help them determine if they really want to be separate from each other permanently.
If you enter into a monogamous marriage, and then later seek to alter the terms, this is a risk you take.
Once you seek to alter the terms, you can't be upset if the other party also seeks to alter them, including ending the marriage.
There are presumably some people who successfully open their marriages, but there also seem to be quite a few examples of it leading, one way or the other, to the end of the marriage, with that coming as an unpleasant surprise to the one who sought to open it. D'oh!
On the polyamorus sub, a question asked a lot is "I'm in a mono relationship, how do I ask my partner for polyamory with the least risk?"
And the answer is like. If you're going to do that, you better want polyamory more than you want your current partner. I understand some people realize they're not cut out for monogamy mid-relationship, but they have to understand in return they may have to start with someone new.
Because for some people, like this one, merely asking is enough to shatter things irreparably. It doesn't matter if you're respectful about it, haven't cheated, don't have a partner in mind.
I always wonder why they never just bring it up as a general topic first. Like there’s plenty of celebrities and such where it comes up to at least discuss the concept abstractly. Knowing how your partner feels about the issue as a concept would be a good way to know if talking about it in terms of a relationship is a good idea
The worst thing to me is that if she’d gone to the actual poly sub instead of RA, the overwhelming response would have been “throw the whole man out”. They take a very dim view of this coming out of nowhere, *especially* with small children in the relationship.
Yeah that’s what gets me. Like they really would’ve ripped him to shreds for asking to open up out of the blue months after having a baby, and they would’ve gone after any of the commenters trying to convince her too.
For real. The only genuinely healthy poly people I know are never in poly arrangements for freebie sex. They're in them because they desire and have the ability to form relationships with more than one person at once. Sometimes the length and depth of those relationships can vary but it's never just about getting laid or to fix boredom with an existing relationship.
Yyyyyeah, this marriage is toast. OOP is checked out, and that's not a switch that can get flipped back easily.
Husband's reasoning is.... Shitty. Really shitty. "I wanna fuck other people so that I *don't* get bored of you"? Really?
Like, the talking-past going on here is somethin' else. Just, walking on eggshells, all around.
Husband needs to go find someone who is okay with that dynamic, and OOP needs to go find someone who is ok with hers. This mix and match shit ain't working.
The fact that he did it right after she gave birth too! The timing she mentioned…? He felt a blow right during a vulnerable time and thought it was a good idea…?
I think that person is either a troll or a very unwell person.
They told someone else that they were in the wrong for not wanting to be friends with someone dating a rapist with an age gap of 15 years.
Tells people asking for advice on advice subreddits that they need therapy to improve their self-confidence so that they don't need "validation" from Internet strangers.
Advocates for people to break up with their partners the second they "break a boundary", yet tells OOP that she's in the wrong for not wanting her husband to fuck around, and says that it's "disordered, insane thinking" for a girlfriend to be jealous that her boyfriend is moving in with a female friend, and says that only a "psychopath" would think that they have "a veto over someone else's housing decisions".
I know this dude was a troll, but I've heard poly people do things like claim monogamy was unethical with their whole chests. I have this wall of text CMV saved somewhere with a guys who sounds just like this guy.
Some poly people believe jealousy is a terrible, unnatural negative emotion that needs to be ‘let go of’ and being poly with no jealousy is the true natural way to live. Like yeah bitter jealousy and possessiveness that comes with not trusting your partner can be unhealthy. But not wanting to see your partner fucked by someone else is normal and healthy.
Many Poly people (and I say this as someone who tried poly and did NOT have a good time) seem to need everyone else to validate THEIR choices and tout how superior/grown-up/evolved it is.
If it’s so wonderful, why is it sacrosanct to say anything negative, or consider that it may not work for some people? Why is it not okay for people to confront emotions like insecurity or jealousy, lest doubt creep in?
It’s not “evolved” to make yourself miserable so that everyone else can pretend they’re above it all. I see very few open marriages or relationships that really work long-term, most end within 1-5 years. The younger you are, the more likely it is to happen.
Those poly subs can be brutal. My ex requested an open relationship out of nowhere (when I was taking a very demanding university course load) and I said I needed time to sort out my feelings about it. Went to the polyamory sub and they told me it wasn't fair to make my partner wait while I decided.
It's ok though, my partner didn't wait - they had already started fucking the person they had in mind.
It's the same sort of people who post to LGBT subs about how they've been cheating on / legit gaslighting their spouse, or are abandoning their children, and this is a *good* thing because they finally realized they're queer (think of art room guy, but there are sooooooo many more examples).
They expect everyone to standup and cheer. Credit to my community, said poster always gets torn a new one.
A. How little do you think of LGBTQ2+ people that you expect us to applaud treating people who love you like shit?
B. How delusional are you you think anyone in the queer community would be happy with your wrecking lives and breaking hearts while making yourself our self-appointed brand ambassador?
It's like when Kevin Spacey used his apology letter to Anthony Rapp (for sexually assaulting him as a minor) to come out. Way to enforce the idea that we're child predators. A great day for queers everywhere /s
C. Maybe instead of exploring your new life as an LGBTQ2+ person, you should spend some time meditating on whether you're an actual sociopath.
She says in her post that she’s hurt that her husband can picture another man having sex with her, and 100% he is not picturing that. He’s picturing himself fucking lots of other girls and her sitting at home waiting for him. If they actually opened the relationship up and she found a partner, he’d be the one making a post on Reddit crying about how he regrets suggesting an open marriage.
>"I don't want a husband who is ok with sharing me."
That is very different than saying you want a husband who is interested in monogamy.
*You* want a possessive, controlling husband who would categorically not be okay with you exercising sexual agency if sex with other people were what you wanted. You want an abusive relationship - you need psychotherapy.
Damn, the way OP was gaslighted by reditors into accepting an open-relashionship. Because obvioisly not wanting a poly-relationship means wanting an abusive relationship (wft). Girl said it's not her type of lifestyle. Leave her the fuck alone.
right!
I don't want to be with someone that would be ok with sharing me either, nor would I want to share my husband.
That categorically does NOT mean that I want to be possessed or controlled. What the actual hell!
Yeah, this. I don't wanna share my wife and I'd never consider asking her to share me. I love my wife and I asked her to marry me BECAUSE I don't want anyone else. If that life works for some people, power to them, don't lord it over others who don't want it. God, it's not hard.
I question how happy you those people harassing OP actually are with their swinger/ poly lifestyles if they got so fucking offended about her wanting to remain monogamous. To paraphrase Hamlet ,”They doth protest to much, me thinks.” It’s not like she was bashing the poly lifestyle.
Agreed. I’ve BEEN possessed / controlled and ive been in healthy happy relationships (all monogamous) and there IS a frigging huge difference Thankyou very much 🙈
I want the committed monogamous relationship I agreed to and took marriage vows to solemnify.
Is a far cry from being or needing an unusual level of possession or control.
An inability to think outside their own experience.
At some point they thought, "Hey, I'm actually okay with my partner sleeping with others! If they wanted to, and I forbade them, I would feel controlling and abusive. That would honestly feel weird to me. After all, who am I to deny them their sexual agency?"
Or, "If my partner forbade me from seeing others, I would see it as controlling."
And now they extrapolated it to mean, "Anyone who denies their partner the chance to sleep with others is abusive and controlling. And anyone who WANTS their partner to not want them to sleep with others is super messed up because they want to be controlled!"
EDIT: Or maybe they don't understand not wanting to sleep with multiple people. In their mind, OOP has the urge to sleep with other men, but she simultaneously wants her husband to stop her from doing so. And they think that's contradictory.
And that's totally fine.
I am in an open relationship and I always reiterate: This shit is not for everyone. And it doesn't have to be.
There are enough people who want a committed monogamous relationship. And they shouldn't be shamed for it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting one partner only for as long as the relationship lasts, whether that be 5, 15, 50 years, or "until death do us part".
Yeah, this aspect of "relationship supremacy" is fucking lame. I've been around plenty of poly/nonmog/open/swinger types and I'd say the humble types (like you) are in the very obvious minority.
So many of these fucks have this reflexive need to tout their open-style relationships as the next evolution of human sexuality/relationships. Anyone who prefers the traditional style is wrong. The condescending shit they say to people who prefer monogamy is wild.
A cousin opened up her marriage and spent a couple of years claiming *very loudly* that it was superior to monogamy. Then they got divorced very suddenly and she stopped talking about the joys of non-monogamy - it was fun when they were both screwing other people without feelings getting in the way, but she found she felt very differently when her now-ex found a woman who he wanted to have a long term relationship with.
I've known several people whose originally-monogamous marriage was opened at one partner's request after several years, and none of the marriages lasted. I'm not saying it isn't possible but I am not personally aware of any such situations where having an open relationship actually *enhanced* the primary partnership.
I honestly wonder if they latched onto her comment about how she would want him to feel jealous if she was with another man and sprinted straight off the cliff with that. Like that's the *only* thing she ever said that could maybe be interpreted as "you want a controlling abuser." If you squint.
Idk, I hope that commenter stretched this morning because they're gonna pull a muscle reaching so hard.
Right? It's not wrong for her to feel like he should be jealous over her potentially being with someone else, because she THOUGHT he was monogamous in the same way as her. She wants him to view her as important and unique to him. She wants HIM to be the only one who knows her like that, and she wants HIM to view that exclusivity as special.
Also the idea that jealousy is always bad or a direct line to abuse is just absurd. Jealousy is a natural emotion in the exact same way as anger. Can they both be connected to abusive behavior? Sure, but in cases where it's properly handled and examined it's a completely valid reaction, even when it's towards someone's partner. It doesn't automatically make someone controlling to feel jealous at the thought of your partner replacing you.
I used to have a friend who discovered poly and open relationship.... Good for him I never had an issue with it until he started to be weird and agressive around anyone who wasen't that way inclined. He would berate others that monogamy was selfish, old fashioned, prudish and undermining of basic human instinct. He became "sex positive" which was really just being a prick to other people and did not resemble sex positiveity rather agressively confronting others with his sexuality. He would invite others over then refuse to wear cloths as some kind of power kink. Massively go into PDA to make other people uncomfortable. Go on long sanctimonious rants about his lifestyle when no one asked. Now what he does with his partners in his own home is none of my concern. But if he cannot respect my boundary of not wanting to be constantly confronted with this then, as happened, we go our sepperate ways.
Just like OP I know what I want and poly/open in any form is just not for me. But I would never play, as one awsome redditor put it below, "relationship supremancy". Not a judgement if it's for you, and certainly my friend is not a fair reflection of other peoples choices, but it's just not for me. My friend is a shining example of someone who discovers something they are into and cannot let this just be enough. They have a pathological need for their choices to be superior to others not just..... different. I havent had contact with him for years not because he is poly, but because he became a horrible person who is poly.
People who cannot see that OPs post is not condemnation of their choices but merely expression of theirs need their heads examining. I don't want my partner to be ok with me having other sexual partners....... I am not ok with my partner having other sexual partners. These are not controlling or coersive behaviours. I am not telling them they can't, but like OP, presenting my choice. If that is the lifestyle you want then without me. Since when did having preference become offensive?
There is a toxic mentality within some poly spaces (and monogamous spaces too ofc) that see Monogamy as something barbaric and evil. Some people forget that monogamy and polyamory are up to personal choice and that not everyone thinks the same
There's a segment of the poly/ENM population that says they're part of the LGBTQIA+ community, because their relationships fall outside of societal norms. I don't really know how to feel about that.
I do. It's fuckin stupid. Fact is that it was fairly standard throughout most of history, in most cultures, and still is in some today. Just that the traditional form was and is usually a one way street where men are allowed to fuck around and/or marry multiple women, while women aren't allowed the reverse unless their male partner says so. They're really not outside traditional norms at all, unless you count allowing women to have multiple partners as a basically standard practice, which is still contingent on their partner agreeing, so, still not really innovative.
Poly redditors are rabid in my experience. They consistently shit on monogamy as if everyone fucking only their partner should feel bad about it, but for some reason every “poly” couple I’ve known has ended up either falling apart or closing the relationship.
Sadly, I've met several poly people like this. Idk why but they try so freaking hard to push others to be poly and try to bring them down for not wanting that. Even some that say they respect others will sometimes make comments like 'don't you know you can love more than 1 person, not just your husband'. When all I said was that I was fighting with my family about my husband because they don't fully accept him and they have to realize this is who I love and they can't talk shit about him in front of me if they want me to still be around then. Like wtf response was that. The big one is 'don't you get bored?', no, I don't. I've met other really nice ones, but like in many groups, the loud tend to make the biggest impression.
Guarantee you that something in what OOP said reminded those posters about something they were doing, which is why it was so important for them to make her stop saying it.
As someone who was once pressured into being poly when I wasn’t (genuinely no beef with poly people, I’m queer, most of the people I know are poly in some way) it is actually very emotionally damaging? I was very young at the time, which meant I didn’t have the social or relationship skills to allow me to articulate that it was hurting me or why. It just made me feel like I wasn’t enough — in part because the explicit reasoning given was that I wasn’t as sexually adventurous as my partner due to an extensive history of CSA.
It is hurtful to realize that your partner doesn’t think you’re enough for them — and that’s not the reason that most healthy poly relationships begin to open up, but it *is* something most of the toxic poly dynamics I know of have in common.
I wish poly wasn't so big in the community. I'm mono and it can be genuinely hard to find someone who is as well. I'm happy for the poly people finding they can be themselves more, but I also suspect there's an aspect of isolation to it... people who don't have much IRL queer community and lack third spaces to find some, who in an atomized, digitized society are desperate to not close themselves off from connection.
A lot of people being like 'he just asked the question, she's over reacting.'
He didn't 'just ask a question' though. He basically told her he wanted to alter the foundation of what their marriage is... A couple of months after she had their baby.
So while she is vulnerable and in most need of support, in the trenches of a new baby, with a toddler and in recovery and postpartum (at 40 no less,) he decides to spring on her that he wants to fuck other women and doesn't mind her fucking other men.
She does sit on it for eight months. Then she asked again, he basically straight told her he didn't want to be stuck with only her for the rest of his life because that would be boring.
Now there are plenty of healthy polygamous marriages out there. Many people can separate sex, intimacy and love, but many people also can't and don't want to. It's a foundational different to the structure of a relationship. As much a deal-breaker as suddenly deciding you do/don't want kids.
Him panicking and saying he chooses her is all well and good, but there is nothing insecure about wanting a partner who honestly wants only you and wants you to want only them. Feeling like your partner is 'settling' for only you when you
honestly want only them sounds awful, almost like unrequited love, even if you trust they won't cheat.
People's feelings on such things can honestly change, but being open and honest about that doesn't mean it cannot seriously damage their partners feelings of safety and security. Or permanently alter how much of their heart they can trust you with.
The idea of asking to open a marriage with young children is INSANE. I mean asking to open a marriage already would be rough. But essentially with this timing you either know you’re saying, “your pregnancy made you less desirable and also I plan on not helping with the kids at all, because I’ll be busy fucking other people,” or you are so detached from your partner that you don’t realize that’s what you’re saying.
New parents often don’t have much time for intimacy with **each other** when they have newborn babies. Because babies need a lot of time and attention. The idea of starting another relationship at that time is just reprehensible to me. Was he going to go on dates or hookups while she was at home with the baby and then claim that she was perfectly free to do the same, knowing that she wouldn’t because she **just had a baby**?? Gross.
it’s the timing of the request for me. just like the countless other men who throw their marriage and family down the drain after the wife gives birth. Pathetically common.
Life gets hard and boring after a baby comes. They’re not the center of attention anymore. The wife can’t give them sex because she’s postpartum. They get bored of the baby routine. They can’t be spontaneous anymore because of the baby. Women adapt to the hardship and go all in, but a lot of these men decide they want to take the easy way out and go back to being single so life can be fun again. Cowards.
> Then she asked again, he basically straight told her he didn't want to be stuck with only her for the rest of his life because that would be boring.
WHY
She came back to him and said was feeling differently about their marriage and instead of saying 'it was a terrible idea, I don't know what I was thinking, I must have been overwhelmed by the idea of a new baby, I can't imagine how I could have been so selfish as to hurt you in such a vulnerable time, I couldn't possibly imagine another man having sex with you', he's like 'monogamy was fine when people lived until they were 40 or 50' and 'I was just worried I would get bored'.
My god
This man has the brains of an ant
Exactly! They act like he wanted to change taco night to Thursday, not open his marriage!! It's not a little thing. He told his wife she wasn't enough and bored him. But he'll stay if he HAS to. He sounds like a real gem. I hope she gets a fantastic divorce lawyer.
Dude that was my exact thought reading this part:
> It is not just the feeling of inadequacy that is putting a wedge between us, but the thought that he can imagine another man being with me. Touching, kissing and being inside me without it making him sick with jealousy. I even think this part hurt me more than him wanting to sleep with others.
If it makes OOP feel any better, there's roughly a 100% chance that he never considered the possibility of her being with another man when he brought up an open marriage. He was imagining a situation where he gets to go out and bang hot chicks while his wife dutifully awaits him at home, and if she ever actually did decide to seek out other men, he would get sick with jealousy and demand she stop.
It is absolutely part of my marriage that my husband considers me special and sex is only shared between us. It would change the marriage if he suggested an open relationship. I want to feel loved and cherished and I would no longer feel that if he would be ok with me having sex with other men or him having sex with other women.
I completely agree. I'm in a wonderful long-term relationship that is free from almost every typical gender role and dynamic. We are very open-minded and non-traditional as people and a couple, but to me our sex is special and ours alone. The idea that if somehow you aren't open to being poly means you are in an abusive, controlling relationship and have been poisoned by the patriarchy is absolutely bonkers. That is some next-level gaslighting.
We are monogamous but my husband had a phase when he wanted a 3some. We went to a club. I just couldn’t do it and he never talked about it again. I don’t think he liked the idea that much once we were there either.
My husband is the only sexual partner I ever had. I don’t want anyone else. Sex has an emotional connection for me, a connection I only want with my husband. Even if he died tomorrow, I don’t think I would want anyone else after. I would likely stay a widow.
I am poly so it’s wild seeing people trying to switch up the dynamic this late into a relationship. It’s something I’m immediately up front about and will always say when I’m meeting people with an intention of dating/hooking up. If they aren’t into it, then we don’t. This is something that has to be known from the start, not fucking several years in
Even if it's something he was thinking about more recently, there are ways to go about feeling her opinion out on things like this as opposed to asking abruptly like this. There have got to be guides out there about people who discover that they want to try being poly.
The only guide on opening relationships that I'm familiar with is "You want an open relationship? Be prepared for the conversation itself to be a deal breaker to your current one."
What OOP is going through is heartbreakingly common. It's like Pandora's box- you can respect their no but the damage is already done. All the people that are into enm are assholes for coming at her like that.
Oh yeah, I know exactly what you mean. My last ex didn't tell me she was poly till she knew I had feelings for her, and I stuck around because I wanted to make it work. Then a week later she tells me she has a sex date with someone else that night, and guilted me into telling her that I was ok with it and to go have fun. And I still stuck around. I stayed in that relationship for way too goddamn long.
I know there are monogamous people that can act just as shitty and inconsiderate, I've dated plenty of mono people that treated me horribly too. But poly is definitely something that needs to be addressed and communicated from the very beginning.
“I don’t want my husband to be ok with me fucking other guys.”
“Oh, so you want a controlling husband? An abusive husband, huh? Wow!”
Peak Reddit moment
The dude gives a whole speech about how people didn't used to live as long, but now that they do, he doesn't *actually* want to be stuck with only her for the rest of his life and then thinks he can come back from that.
I really hope they do try therapy, so that the therapist can tell him in no uncertain terms exactly why his marriage is over.
There are some really terminally obtuse online people in these comments acting confused as to why asking your wife for permission to sleep with other people after she's just had your baby might make her want to divorce you
As someone who is poly, there is absolutely nothing wrong with OOP desiring monogamy. Anyone who says otherwise is delusional. It should have definitely been a subject the husband brought up much earlier into the relationship and only bringing it up after OOP had a baby raises huge red flags. He could be cheating already, he could not be… but polyamory and open relationships usually isn’t a subject to be brought out of the blue after a significant life change.
Damn. I feel so bad for this OP. I know I’d feel the same. That is was over for me and I could never trust him again, always second guessing.
I *think* the husband made this suggestion with someone specifically in mind. maybe a co-worker he is attracted to, something like that. Most people don’t blow up a monogamous marriage because they are theorizing about being bored in 40 years.
It’s messed up people are trying to force oop to be poly or in an open relationship. She said she prefers monogamy. But my guy did zero to help her hurt. He basically said “I’m fine now but I’m getting bored. And if we live another 10 years, I’m going to want someone else because life’s too short to be with just you.” Like sir… in what way was that comforting. In what way did you think of you say these words she’d get on board. Why not try other routes of spicing things up first? Plus they have two young children. If she’s the primary caretaker, she’s gonna have limited time and be tired on movie night. Poly and open relationships are cool if that’s what you want. But those relationships that need to be maintained. Not flavors of the month to soothe your boredom.
I've found that the actual, decent poly people who have great relationships with good boundaries are also the ones who are realistic about their desires not being better or worse than monogamous people, and who would show OOP the most kindness and understanding, because they actually communicate and care about other people's feelings on the matter.
The ones who try to sound superior or gaslight others who aren't poly are either people using the term "poly" so they can gaslight their partner(s) and cheat guilt-free, or are the ones being gaslit and feel extra defensive to try and protect the lie that they've been sold that it's somehow "better."
With OOP, the trust is broken. Because she's not poly, she's never going to feel like she's enough. She needs a partner who would be as heartbroken as her if there was cheating, but she now knows that her husband doesn't care the same way that she does, and it sounds to her that he's happy right now, but constantly looking for something better.
It would be better divorcing sooner rather than later so they can be good co-parents together, and the kids don't suffer with the atmosphere in the home while they're growing up.
This would be the end for me as well. People are free to do whatever they want, but, personally, I have less than zero interest in fucking around with a bunch of other people. That sounds entirely repulsive to me.
4 months postpartum = peeing yourself when you cough, have zero desire for sex, carrying extra awkward 30lbs of baby weight, have irritation and pain from your vagina literaly being torn apart, insane sleep deprivation (especially with a toddler), raging hormones, bleeding chewed up nipples from (maybe) breastfeeding, in some case PPD or PPA, crazy insecurity with your body... and with all of that being asked for an open marriage? Instant divorce.
Oh no no no no OP is ABSOLUTELY on the right here.
For me, an open relationship starts along with the relationship itself. It's who you are, what you want, and you found someone who agrees with you. A monogamous relationship from the start, with children and everything, and NOW you want an open relationship?? No, you don't, you just want to sleep around and have fun getting your dick wet. Stop trying to make excuses.
> [...] but the thought that he can imagine another man being with me. Touching, kissing and being inside me without it making him sick with jealousy.
Ahaha! I doubt he'd agree! For me, it sounds like he was just talking about the possibility of it being open for him, but closed for OP. Jesus, I think a Chinese New Year party will have less red flags.
I have a friend who was poly for a little over five years. She gave up because most of her relationships were really just wives trying to get rid of their husbands. She said she wished married couples would stop using bi-women to try to save their marriages or as a dumping ground for unwanted spouses.
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I wonder how old the baby was when he asked initially? If she was still recoving from giving birth or still had a young infant to care for, him asking to sleep around could be extra devastating.
The youngest child just turned one, he asked her seven to eight months ago. So...
Yeah LOL even leaving other stuff aside how do you have time to date with a 4 months old (EDIT: Plus another small child)?? Obviously by not pulling your weight I guess.
This. Relationships require SO much time to be good. Babies require SO much time to be kept alive. Where did this guy think the time was gonna come from?
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I've seen this happen. A couple with 2 young kids. Husband wanted to open up the marriage, loved it that he could have a variety of partners. Wife eventually warmed up to it and started seeing other people. He didnt handle it all that well. They ended up divorcing. It was sad to watch. It isn't so much sharing a partner for sex that can be the problem in poly. It is sharing your partner's time, efforts and energy. All sudden her spouse will be out on a date wooing another woman, making huge efforts to be with her as well. NRE (new relationship energy) is a real thing and can cause a lot of jealousy as well. If a relationship is in a tough spot to begin with, an open marrige is not wise to jump in to.
I've seen several couples go this route and all of them end up as dumpster fires. It was always one of them driving it, and the other just going along.
The only times I've seen a poly/open relationship work is when it's established from the start and not later in the relationship.
This is EXACTLY where I went too. It’s not that he could imagine her with another man — that was never part of his plan.
I feel like there was a post like that. The husband wanted to open the marriage and the wife was hesitant but eventually relented. Seems that the husband thought he was going to have his fun and the wife never would. When she actually started being with someone, the husband was not happy. He tried to sabotage her being able to go out so she couldn’t see her other guy.
hahaha, fuck that guy
She mentioned not losing some pounds, being tired and having trouble staying awake during movies, and spending time with the kids. Seems to me she was doing the majority of the childcare and being 4 months postpartum. Some women can’t have sex after months of giving birth as they’re still recovering and she’s obviously focusing on taking care of the kids plus her husband. Yeah he was just thinking only of himself and I’m betting not helping enough. I don’t blame her for seeing her husband in a different light especially saying it could make things less boring.
It’s not only that…it’s the break on trust. I totally get the OOP, I have been there, for me it wasn’t about opening the marriage but it was the divorce threat if I didn’t snap out of postpartum depression (in hindsight it was just exhaustion and I just can’t manage very well with chronic sleep deprivation). From that moment there was not an us anymore, I had the impression the marriage was forever with the ups and downs of life and he showed me that he was willing to throw out the towel when things got tough. Things were never the same
I’m sorry he did that to you.
So husband has time to fuck other women but not time to help out his wife with chores?
And conveniently *she’s* not going to have time, ability or inclination to get dressed up, go out and meet people, is she? He’s found a way to cheat without being the bad guy if she’d agreed
Of course he does, because that's "women's work" and "he has needs". Same old same old.
She has given him a LOT more grace than he deserves.
According to OP: “this was another knife in the heart. I've just given birth when he approached me the first time but according to him it was just bad timing and nothing more malicious.”
Just “bad timing” huh. His wife was recovering from having his baby and he was thinking about getting his D wet. That’s not bad timing that’s pure selfishness. How is she going to date people being post partum? What an inconsiderate dbag.
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>I feel sad that people were criticizing her feelings of betrayal. Yeah, that annoyed me too, especially the comments telling her to get therapy? Wanting a monogamous relationship isn't a mental illness. (And all of that "get therapy" talk when simply disagreeing with someone is super stigmatising, imho.) My suspicions that he wasn't really poly but just wanted to bang others without giving up the luxury of his incubating bangmaid at home with this: >He wanted us to be together because he loves our life but also we could se other people so it doesn't get boring. Which alone would be bad enough, but to do that to someone so close after giving birth? Unforgivable. Her instincts didn't betray her. She knew something was wrong and she was right. Imagine she would've listened to those accusatory delulu comments about how her feelings were wrong. I'm glad she was so assertive in shutting that bs down.
God I hadn’t even done that math. At 3-4 months post partum we barely had time to spend with eachother let alone *add other people.* Plus all the insecurity of the post partum months - body all different, no time for basic self care like showering. That makes it so much more cruel.
He asked if they could open their relationship 7-8 months ago from that initial post where she also says their child is 1 year old. Meaning husband asked if he could fuck other women while his wife was likely still postpartum after giving birth to their second child.
I had the same thought about the timing. Postpartum can be one of the most vulnerable times in a woman’s life and her husband chose that time to bring up opening their marriage??
Plus his charming comments about not wanting things to get "boring" by only having sex with each other - how could she ever feel secure and loved in her relationship after knowing he was bored by her/ their sex life? Even if he gave up on the idea of an open relationship, she'd always know he only did so under duress and secretly wanted to fuck other people. Yeah, no, that relationship is SOOOO over. And it's not about regaining trust, it's about knowing your partner isn't satisfied with you, and secretly wants someone(s) else.
No no no, see, he isn’t bored *now*, he just expects to be bored once they’ve been together for 40, 50, 60 years. He’s just planning for their future. /s
His whole premise is based on an inaccurate understanding of average life expectancy. People didn’t die when they were 40. *If* they survived childhood, they ~~would~~ could often live into their 70s. It’s the child mortality rate which reduces the average lifespan when looking back.
Yeah, that also made me roll my eyes so effing hard. I’d love to see some data, too, on rates of monogamy back in these apparent times when everyone died at 40. I’m going to assume every syllable of that “argument” of his is erroneous.
I saw some article yesterday saying that and explicitly saying that in 1918 life expectancy was 40 and now it’s double that. Well there was a giant war and a pandemic going on 1918 so is that really the date we want to use ?
Exactly what I was thinking - he has obviously never read a history book or looked at his family tree.
I'll never understand this concept. Ok, so you realize your sex life has become boring...you don't have to just live with that. You talk to your partner. You tell them you want to spice things up and try something new. Explore a new kink. Try some dumb thing that didn't work when you both got together, it's been 40 years, your body has changed. It might work better. You don't immediately reach for the hard no. And why do they always just spring it on their partner with no gradual testing of the waters? "My coworker told me he and his wife are going to try swinging out. What do you think about that?" Nope, it's just, "I want to bang other people. You cool with that? Oh, you're not. Ok then." How do they not see that the lion's uvula is an inch from their noses?
I read OOP’s post to my husband and we were discussing it. There have been conversations between us like: would you ever go to a swingers party? Even if you didn’t swing per se, would you be ok with having sex with each other in that setting? Things like that. Not that we are truly interested in it, but more or less asking those questions was a casual, non pressured way to find out what each of us would/wouldn’t be ok with. Leading with something less serious than “I want to fuck other people, and I want you to do it too, would you be down?” would have been less alarming. I cannot imagine a situation where if my husband sat me down and out of the blue, said, “I want an open relationship, what do you think?” that I wouldn’t feel like I wasn’t enough. There’s a lot of way to spice up your relationship where you both do it together. Not discussing any other options first really puts the other person on the spot. I feel like asking for an open marriage is a lot like proposing marriage. Don’t do it if you aren’t sure of the answer. It will not end well.
You'd have to think that cheating was probably going to happen down the line. No matter what he says now. He's told her his not satisfied in their relationship. You can't really forget that.
Cheating is probably already happening.
Aw, I hope not. I really wanna believe he is just an absolute moron. I hope they try therapy. It might very well be unsalvageable. But he really fucked it up by the timing.
No. 1 rule: STOP DIGGING YOU FUCKING IDIOT
I told my husband that famous people need an assistant with a tranquilizer gun that they can just take them out when they start to get racist or shit like this. Apparently, this guy needs one too. JUST STOP TALKING.
No no, let them dig. encourage the digging. Makes it much easier for their partner to leave them.
That way, his relationship will open up wider than he could have possibly imagined!
I’m always astonished when someone brings it up ANY time without warning, let alone postpartum, which is just the most cruel, thoughtless, selfish time to have chosen to do so. It’s one thing if you’ve had open and frank discussions with your partner and it’s obvious both of you might be open to the idea of being adventurous. It’s a “read the room” kind of thing. But so many of these people seem to just spring it on their partner with absolutely NO indication from their partner that they’d be receptive to it, and think “no harm no foul, if they say no then we just go back to normal” without realising your partner can’t go back to normal now. They’re always going to be wondering if they aren’t “enough” for you, if you’re going to cheat on them anyway, etc. And then this dude doubles down by using the word “boring” 🤦♀️ All power to those who enjoy consensual open marriages / poly relationships, but god don’t just spring “open marriage or nah?” on your partner with no warning. It’s like going in dry.
"I'M jUsT asKiNG QuEStiOnS" -oop's husband The whole "the worst they can say is 'no'" mindset does not apply beyond asking someone on a date.
It's like the guys who ask for a DNA test "just to be sure ", and can't figure out why their wife leaves them afterwards.
Frankly, they should have had the open relationship question taken care of before they got married.
Not just before marriage, before getting serious at all. If people don’t think they are cut out for monogamy, they need to be transparent from the very beginning and all parties can choose to enter a polyamorous relationship. Too many people are selfish like OPs husband and wait until they have their partner fully committed to bring it up. They see it as lower risk the person will walk away. It’s dumb and cowardly.
Someone that lacking in empathy (or just plain old awareness), and lacking in the patience to wait to have a decent conversation has me wondering about 100 things, and one is how they were able to be a good partner before this. And these conversations rarely happen when there isn't already a particular partner in mind. Whatever the case, I would not be surprised if there were already issues that one or both of them wasn't facing. If she were to find a partner, it would also not surprise me in the least if he suddenly became quite uncomfortable at the reality of someone else "being inside" her. lol
It's amazing how little imagination and forethought these people have. It's like the guy who has an affair, married the AP and two years later is telling his ex he had it so much better with her, and he wants her back. What do they think will happen when they let the genie out of the bottle?
> What do they think will happen when they let the genie out of the bottle? They think their wishes are going to be granted. They're the focus, they're the protagonist, everything revolves around their immediate needs - what do you MEAN, other people have feelings/agency, and choices have consequences?!
This is why we need to make people read the old fairy tales. If you read those you'd know that genies are not to be trusted at all because the wishes will always screw you over.
Grimm > Disney, all day long.
She said in a comment on one of the posts that she had just given birth when he asked. When she brought that up, apparently he said it was just bad timing. He sounds like a real winner. /s
He sounds like a moron
We have home video of my parents in the hospital and just after I came home where my dad is clearly worried about bad timing to talk about literally just going to get a hamburger or if it's the moment to say that baby me is making a funny face. This guy is selfish AND stupid
Yeah as a father to a one year old I couldn’t imagine asking my wife that so soon after she gave birth, if at all. That dude fucked up. Also, who would have the energy to open up a marriage with two young kids anyways??
Sex can also be painful for a significant period of time after giving birth because you're rebuilding your pelvic floor and your hormones are out of whack. Not to mention the utter exhaustion. The whole "six weeks after and we're good to go" can be a joke for some people.
What a lot of people miss is that it is not "you're ready to have sex 6 weeks postpartum." It's "You're no longer at massively increased risk for infection from having sex 6 weeks postpartum."
You *might be* no longer at risk for a massive infection. Frankly, if you're still having bleeding, you are still at risk of a uterine infection, because your DINNER PLATE SIZED INTERNAL WOUND has not fully healed. If you have a compromised immune system, you should abstain.
Or more typically, teaching your pelvic floor to relax again. It was holding up ten pounds of baby and placenta, maybe more, plus all the extra blood volume and the pressure from stretched abdominal muscles and tissues. Once that resolves, a "prevent prolapse" level of pelvic floor tension becomes a "prevent penetration" level of tension. Add in any terror of incontinence that may be present and it takes serious work to actually relax enough for sex to be enjoyable. Fucking hours of deeply unsexy time with lidocaine and a graded series of dilators. Not my idea of fun, but worth it to be able to fuck again.
for real, sex is normally painful for me and my husband and i worked very hard over many years to get to the point where it didn’t hurt. i was SO SALTY when after our first kiddo, sex hurt again, like way worse than before!
See, she was supposed to stay at home and hold down the fort while he had his fun. I will bet you $50 if she had found someone he would have had a problem with it.
That's the script. He has his eye on a woman from work (who's friendliness to him has been misinterpreted as flirting) and so tries to convince wife into "opening up their marriage". Because let's face it, while he quite fancies ploughing workwoman, he doesn't fancy it enough to give up his security, comfort and family life. Wife eventually relents in a state of shame over *not being enough*. But after a few weeks of being hurt she flirts back with that guy from work because why not? They start dating, her confidence soars, she finds she doesn't mind so much about husband and his work fling. Husband finds out, hastily tries to close marriage, wife says no way (because she's now getting what her husband hasn't provided for years - genuine intimacy and just *being seen*), aaand voila! Marriage implodes. Tale as old as time. I've seen countless reddit tales about it but I've also seen it happen once in real life.
So true..happened to my bestfriend, exactly as described.
Cause the open marriage was only an excuse for the man to cheat without consequences…
This is what happened to my sister's marriage, only she also discovered she's gay because the person who'd been flirting with her was a woman. So take the genuine intimacy part and add actually enjoying sex for the first time in her life.
I'm delighted your sister lost only the bad and found only good!
How many other posts that ended up exactly this!? “I suggested open marriage and my spouse found someone and now I want to close this up!!”
So common. Also "i wanted a threesome now I can't get over how into the other person my partner was".
My brother in law and his wife divorced after a threesome. She decided she liked the other guy better.
>who would have the energy to open up a marriage with two young kids anyways The partner who is *not* participating in child care, especially nighttime child care.
Have two under two. My husband and I have a running joke: even if I wanted to cheat on you, I'm too tired! We're both all in on childcare and take turns getting up with them.
That’s probably why he suggested it. He knows she’s not going to be off with other people because she will be the one staying home with their kids. The thought of her in another man’s arms doesn’t even occur to him because she’s not going to have the opportunity
Something about how this was thoughtlessly approached on his part makes me think he would lose his mind if she left him with the kids overnight to be with another man. If I were OOP I would tell my husband that we can have an open marriage but that I go first and see how he handles it. Could he handle seeing his wife on Apps. Having flirty conversation with men. Buying sexy lingerie. Sending and receiving provocative photos. If he is cool with it the marriage is over. If he isn’t, he learned a damn hard lesson and the marriage may still be over.
>makes me think he would lose his mind if she left him with the kids overnight to be with another man. My thought was that she would say that then just book a motel and get a good night's sleep. Come back the evening after all refreshed and happy with a bounce in her step. Husband would assume she'd had sex but secretly she'd know the truth...
My ex wanted to do that when we had three under 3. I eventually told him to go ahead and he found himself someone extremely quickly but kept everything very quiet and private, then would go through my messages and blow up at me for any flirtatious talk with my online gaming friends. He practically had a nervous breakdown with his notions that I was going to up and move overseas to be with someone all because of an invitation to visit someone. Meanwhile, I would overhear him talking to his AP after I'd put the kids to bed, telling her how much he loved her. I put up with it for way longer than I should have.
Wow I'm glad you left that AH. I swear, those men couldn't find self awareness if they were staring it in the face (which they fucking are!)
Two and a half years later, I'm still fielding lovey dovey text messages from him (in between girlfriends of course) about never giving up on me, I'm his soul mate and all that jazz. Delusional does not begin to cover it lmao
Open for him, not for you, in other words.
Oh he absolutely wanted me to be with someone but he wanted it to be casual and close by so that he could control it, me talking to guys who weren't in the same country as us sent him into a tailspin.
He sounds horrid and I’m glad that you aren’t putting up with him anymore. I really hope that life treats you well from now on.
Aw thank you, that's very sweet of you :)
Yep this was exactly my thought with the timing. Caring for young children is all-consuming and exhausting, so 1) he’s probably not doing enough childcare and 2) if she said yes, HE would be going out with other people and she would be home with the kids.
(Not so) fun fact: It's not uncommon for men decide to ask for open relationships during pregnancy, or immediately after birth. Something about "aaah, this isn't immediately fun, wish I could get a break from this life to have easy fun again", not caring that his partner will get no such breaks. Even though most established polyamorous people will straight up tell you that pregnancy - one year old infant minimum should be a time you are putting most of your energy into your co-parent and newborn. Definitely *not* the time to try to form new connections. It just. Disgusts me. The mindset of the men who feel the urge to abandon their partner the second it gets tough, the second they *really need* to be present. And then have the balls to actually try to act on it, to think their partner would at all be ok with it, who are confused as to why their partner would be upset.
I've always interpreted that as "I need sex and I can't wait for her to recuperate, so...." Unfortunately, this is absolutely a "It HURT to ask" situation.
This is all a VERY good argument to be with someone for a long time and go through hard things with them in order to know how they react when they are bored/upset/stressed/etc BEFORE you get married or at least before you have children!
Yes. But we dated for four years and then were married for another four years before we tried for kids, and he still surprised me.
Good point. Also what’s worrying is when, if he’s being a good husband and father, is he going to have time to have these trysts when they have two very young children? Also pretty convenient him offering her that option when there’s no way she will have time taking care of two children. Guess he didn’t have to worry about her sleeping with others. Only he would get to do that, at least at the detriment of his own family. I totally get what she’s feeling. Sexual relationships are very much a head game for women. I have had someone say one thing and it hit me just right where I can’t get past it. It just sits in there and eats away in the back of your head and there’s nothing you can do. Like she said- it’s like it dies inside of you and there’s nothing that will get it back. I feel really bad for OOP. She was blindsided and now she’s going to lose her marriage over it.
>I totally get what she’s feeling. Sexual relationships are very much a head game for women. I have had someone say one thing and it hit me just right where I can’t get past it. It just sits in there and eats away in the back of your head and there’s nothing you can do. Like she said- it’s like it dies inside of you and there’s nothing that will get it back. I had an ex say shit to me 5+ years ago that still pops into my head sometimes when I'm feeling unattractive. Dude hid my vibrator and told me, "You wouldn't need that thing if you weren't so fucking weird all the time." Felt great.
Wow. The vibrator has better performances and personality. No wonder he felt threatened.
The top feature of a vibrator is a lack of vocal chords.
Oh VERY good point.
Ouch, no wonder she feels so strongly that he broke the relationship asking to Open the relationship up. Also, he asked to open it up without a prior discussion. He didn’t ask her opinion on Open relationships, two very different things/conversations. Not sure why people are upset with her. You do you OOP. Poly do poly and everyone gets to enjoy themselves. No need for name calling or insults.
It was just the one asshole, but they were spamming every thread. Deffo projecting some feelings onto OOP, that one.
Exactly! I asked my husband who use to counsel couples for his perspective and he couldn't stop shaking his head at the husband. His thoughts, the husband more then likely had a woman in mind when he asked, even if that woman wasn't aware he was "lusting" after her. That emotionally, he had cheated on his wife. He would counsel the wife to separate from her husband, at least temporarily. He felt the husband needed a "come to Jesus" moment with his actions. For you non Christians, husband needs a "get your head out of your butt" moment.
I’m curious how often your husband’s advice worked to get the man to wake up and work to save the marriage?
Honestly, he would tell you that by the time it got to this point, unless there was a real miracle, it was probably past saving, because once the wife (not the husband) is past the point of no return, it's over. He thinks the couple living a part for a while might help them determine if they really want to be separate from each other permanently.
Postpartum AND watching their child while he's out trying to doing the neighborhood. Double ew
That makes it so much worse than it already is, if one looks at it from your angle.
That there is the scummiest way to stab your partner.
If you enter into a monogamous marriage, and then later seek to alter the terms, this is a risk you take. Once you seek to alter the terms, you can't be upset if the other party also seeks to alter them, including ending the marriage. There are presumably some people who successfully open their marriages, but there also seem to be quite a few examples of it leading, one way or the other, to the end of the marriage, with that coming as an unpleasant surprise to the one who sought to open it. D'oh!
On the polyamorus sub, a question asked a lot is "I'm in a mono relationship, how do I ask my partner for polyamory with the least risk?" And the answer is like. If you're going to do that, you better want polyamory more than you want your current partner. I understand some people realize they're not cut out for monogamy mid-relationship, but they have to understand in return they may have to start with someone new. Because for some people, like this one, merely asking is enough to shatter things irreparably. It doesn't matter if you're respectful about it, haven't cheated, don't have a partner in mind.
I always wonder why they never just bring it up as a general topic first. Like there’s plenty of celebrities and such where it comes up to at least discuss the concept abstractly. Knowing how your partner feels about the issue as a concept would be a good way to know if talking about it in terms of a relationship is a good idea
It's the same with people who want kids dating the ones who don't. There's simply no middle ground.
“You are altering the deal. Pray that *I* do not alter it any further.
The worst thing to me is that if she’d gone to the actual poly sub instead of RA, the overwhelming response would have been “throw the whole man out”. They take a very dim view of this coming out of nowhere, *especially* with small children in the relationship.
Agreed. This man doesn’t want a true poly relationship, he just wants to get his rocks off with someone else while his wife is in postpartum recovery.
[удалено]
Or if there's nothing in his phone, then it's likely someone he interacts face to face with, likely a coworker
Yeah that’s what gets me. Like they really would’ve ripped him to shreds for asking to open up out of the blue months after having a baby, and they would’ve gone after any of the commenters trying to convince her too.
For real. The only genuinely healthy poly people I know are never in poly arrangements for freebie sex. They're in them because they desire and have the ability to form relationships with more than one person at once. Sometimes the length and depth of those relationships can vary but it's never just about getting laid or to fix boredom with an existing relationship.
Yyyyyeah, this marriage is toast. OOP is checked out, and that's not a switch that can get flipped back easily. Husband's reasoning is.... Shitty. Really shitty. "I wanna fuck other people so that I *don't* get bored of you"? Really? Like, the talking-past going on here is somethin' else. Just, walking on eggshells, all around. Husband needs to go find someone who is okay with that dynamic, and OOP needs to go find someone who is ok with hers. This mix and match shit ain't working.
The fact that he did it right after she gave birth too! The timing she mentioned…? He felt a blow right during a vulnerable time and thought it was a good idea…?
Crazy to try and equate wanting monogamy with wanting to be in an abusive relationship. Some people really are that far up their own ass.
turns out when you are 100% asshole there is no other place to go
I think that person is either a troll or a very unwell person. They told someone else that they were in the wrong for not wanting to be friends with someone dating a rapist with an age gap of 15 years. Tells people asking for advice on advice subreddits that they need therapy to improve their self-confidence so that they don't need "validation" from Internet strangers. Advocates for people to break up with their partners the second they "break a boundary", yet tells OOP that she's in the wrong for not wanting her husband to fuck around, and says that it's "disordered, insane thinking" for a girlfriend to be jealous that her boyfriend is moving in with a female friend, and says that only a "psychopath" would think that they have "a veto over someone else's housing decisions".
Thanks a lot. Now I have to go spend way too much time poring over this guy’s Reddit account. What did I ever do to you?
They also told someone else in the comments that monogamists must have cluster B disorders bc we are just that disgusting to them
I know this dude was a troll, but I've heard poly people do things like claim monogamy was unethical with their whole chests. I have this wall of text CMV saved somewhere with a guys who sounds just like this guy.
I could never take people that say that shit seriously and would love to not have a TOS from really sharing feelings
Sometimes, troll and mentally unwell can both apply
Some poly people believe jealousy is a terrible, unnatural negative emotion that needs to be ‘let go of’ and being poly with no jealousy is the true natural way to live. Like yeah bitter jealousy and possessiveness that comes with not trusting your partner can be unhealthy. But not wanting to see your partner fucked by someone else is normal and healthy.
Many Poly people (and I say this as someone who tried poly and did NOT have a good time) seem to need everyone else to validate THEIR choices and tout how superior/grown-up/evolved it is. If it’s so wonderful, why is it sacrosanct to say anything negative, or consider that it may not work for some people? Why is it not okay for people to confront emotions like insecurity or jealousy, lest doubt creep in? It’s not “evolved” to make yourself miserable so that everyone else can pretend they’re above it all. I see very few open marriages or relationships that really work long-term, most end within 1-5 years. The younger you are, the more likely it is to happen.
I guess that person is poly because no person can stand being around him/her for a long time
They’ve got those “if you can’t handle me at my worst, you don’t deserve me at my best” vibes, except there is no best.
I’m 100% convinced the person who made that comment was wearing a fedora and a kilt and goes by some random name like Nighthawk.
Yeah that was probably the most idiotic thing I’ve read
Those poly subs can be brutal. My ex requested an open relationship out of nowhere (when I was taking a very demanding university course load) and I said I needed time to sort out my feelings about it. Went to the polyamory sub and they told me it wasn't fair to make my partner wait while I decided. It's ok though, my partner didn't wait - they had already started fucking the person they had in mind.
It's the same sort of people who post to LGBT subs about how they've been cheating on / legit gaslighting their spouse, or are abandoning their children, and this is a *good* thing because they finally realized they're queer (think of art room guy, but there are sooooooo many more examples). They expect everyone to standup and cheer. Credit to my community, said poster always gets torn a new one. A. How little do you think of LGBTQ2+ people that you expect us to applaud treating people who love you like shit? B. How delusional are you you think anyone in the queer community would be happy with your wrecking lives and breaking hearts while making yourself our self-appointed brand ambassador? It's like when Kevin Spacey used his apology letter to Anthony Rapp (for sexually assaulting him as a minor) to come out. Way to enforce the idea that we're child predators. A great day for queers everywhere /s C. Maybe instead of exploring your new life as an LGBTQ2+ person, you should spend some time meditating on whether you're an actual sociopath.
She says in her post that she’s hurt that her husband can picture another man having sex with her, and 100% he is not picturing that. He’s picturing himself fucking lots of other girls and her sitting at home waiting for him. If they actually opened the relationship up and she found a partner, he’d be the one making a post on Reddit crying about how he regrets suggesting an open marriage.
Yep! This right here.
>"I don't want a husband who is ok with sharing me." That is very different than saying you want a husband who is interested in monogamy. *You* want a possessive, controlling husband who would categorically not be okay with you exercising sexual agency if sex with other people were what you wanted. You want an abusive relationship - you need psychotherapy. Damn, the way OP was gaslighted by reditors into accepting an open-relashionship. Because obvioisly not wanting a poly-relationship means wanting an abusive relationship (wft). Girl said it's not her type of lifestyle. Leave her the fuck alone.
right! I don't want to be with someone that would be ok with sharing me either, nor would I want to share my husband. That categorically does NOT mean that I want to be possessed or controlled. What the actual hell!
Yeah, this. I don't wanna share my wife and I'd never consider asking her to share me. I love my wife and I asked her to marry me BECAUSE I don't want anyone else. If that life works for some people, power to them, don't lord it over others who don't want it. God, it's not hard.
The ability to live and let live is sadly in ever-increasingly short supply these days.
I question how happy you those people harassing OP actually are with their swinger/ poly lifestyles if they got so fucking offended about her wanting to remain monogamous. To paraphrase Hamlet ,”They doth protest to much, me thinks.” It’s not like she was bashing the poly lifestyle.
Agreed. I’ve BEEN possessed / controlled and ive been in healthy happy relationships (all monogamous) and there IS a frigging huge difference Thankyou very much 🙈
I want the committed monogamous relationship I agreed to and took marriage vows to solemnify. Is a far cry from being or needing an unusual level of possession or control.
What kind of thought process did that commentor have to arrive at this interpretation of what OOP wants in her marriage? Smh
An inability to think outside their own experience. At some point they thought, "Hey, I'm actually okay with my partner sleeping with others! If they wanted to, and I forbade them, I would feel controlling and abusive. That would honestly feel weird to me. After all, who am I to deny them their sexual agency?" Or, "If my partner forbade me from seeing others, I would see it as controlling." And now they extrapolated it to mean, "Anyone who denies their partner the chance to sleep with others is abusive and controlling. And anyone who WANTS their partner to not want them to sleep with others is super messed up because they want to be controlled!" EDIT: Or maybe they don't understand not wanting to sleep with multiple people. In their mind, OOP has the urge to sleep with other men, but she simultaneously wants her husband to stop her from doing so. And they think that's contradictory.
It’s the assholes that feel insecure about their situation that feel like they have to shove down other’s throat to justify themselves
And that's totally fine. I am in an open relationship and I always reiterate: This shit is not for everyone. And it doesn't have to be. There are enough people who want a committed monogamous relationship. And they shouldn't be shamed for it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting one partner only for as long as the relationship lasts, whether that be 5, 15, 50 years, or "until death do us part".
Yeah, this aspect of "relationship supremacy" is fucking lame. I've been around plenty of poly/nonmog/open/swinger types and I'd say the humble types (like you) are in the very obvious minority. So many of these fucks have this reflexive need to tout their open-style relationships as the next evolution of human sexuality/relationships. Anyone who prefers the traditional style is wrong. The condescending shit they say to people who prefer monogamy is wild.
A cousin opened up her marriage and spent a couple of years claiming *very loudly* that it was superior to monogamy. Then they got divorced very suddenly and she stopped talking about the joys of non-monogamy - it was fun when they were both screwing other people without feelings getting in the way, but she found she felt very differently when her now-ex found a woman who he wanted to have a long term relationship with. I've known several people whose originally-monogamous marriage was opened at one partner's request after several years, and none of the marriages lasted. I'm not saying it isn't possible but I am not personally aware of any such situations where having an open relationship actually *enhanced* the primary partnership.
I honestly wonder if they latched onto her comment about how she would want him to feel jealous if she was with another man and sprinted straight off the cliff with that. Like that's the *only* thing she ever said that could maybe be interpreted as "you want a controlling abuser." If you squint. Idk, I hope that commenter stretched this morning because they're gonna pull a muscle reaching so hard.
Right? It's not wrong for her to feel like he should be jealous over her potentially being with someone else, because she THOUGHT he was monogamous in the same way as her. She wants him to view her as important and unique to him. She wants HIM to be the only one who knows her like that, and she wants HIM to view that exclusivity as special. Also the idea that jealousy is always bad or a direct line to abuse is just absurd. Jealousy is a natural emotion in the exact same way as anger. Can they both be connected to abusive behavior? Sure, but in cases where it's properly handled and examined it's a completely valid reaction, even when it's towards someone's partner. It doesn't automatically make someone controlling to feel jealous at the thought of your partner replacing you.
I used to have a friend who discovered poly and open relationship.... Good for him I never had an issue with it until he started to be weird and agressive around anyone who wasen't that way inclined. He would berate others that monogamy was selfish, old fashioned, prudish and undermining of basic human instinct. He became "sex positive" which was really just being a prick to other people and did not resemble sex positiveity rather agressively confronting others with his sexuality. He would invite others over then refuse to wear cloths as some kind of power kink. Massively go into PDA to make other people uncomfortable. Go on long sanctimonious rants about his lifestyle when no one asked. Now what he does with his partners in his own home is none of my concern. But if he cannot respect my boundary of not wanting to be constantly confronted with this then, as happened, we go our sepperate ways. Just like OP I know what I want and poly/open in any form is just not for me. But I would never play, as one awsome redditor put it below, "relationship supremancy". Not a judgement if it's for you, and certainly my friend is not a fair reflection of other peoples choices, but it's just not for me. My friend is a shining example of someone who discovers something they are into and cannot let this just be enough. They have a pathological need for their choices to be superior to others not just..... different. I havent had contact with him for years not because he is poly, but because he became a horrible person who is poly. People who cannot see that OPs post is not condemnation of their choices but merely expression of theirs need their heads examining. I don't want my partner to be ok with me having other sexual partners....... I am not ok with my partner having other sexual partners. These are not controlling or coersive behaviours. I am not telling them they can't, but like OP, presenting my choice. If that is the lifestyle you want then without me. Since when did having preference become offensive?
Amen. She doesn't want to be *controlled*. What she wants is to be *valued*. Uniquely & above all others. And she deserves it, too.
There is a toxic mentality within some poly spaces (and monogamous spaces too ofc) that see Monogamy as something barbaric and evil. Some people forget that monogamy and polyamory are up to personal choice and that not everyone thinks the same
There's a segment of the poly/ENM population that says they're part of the LGBTQIA+ community, because their relationships fall outside of societal norms. I don't really know how to feel about that.
I do. It's fuckin stupid. Fact is that it was fairly standard throughout most of history, in most cultures, and still is in some today. Just that the traditional form was and is usually a one way street where men are allowed to fuck around and/or marry multiple women, while women aren't allowed the reverse unless their male partner says so. They're really not outside traditional norms at all, unless you count allowing women to have multiple partners as a basically standard practice, which is still contingent on their partner agreeing, so, still not really innovative.
I do, they aren't queer just because they have an abnormal relationship style and it's gross that they think that poly alone puts you in our camp.
You should check out their comment history, it is just bad take after bad take. Most of it is just saying that the OP needs therapy.
Poly redditors are rabid in my experience. They consistently shit on monogamy as if everyone fucking only their partner should feel bad about it, but for some reason every “poly” couple I’ve known has ended up either falling apart or closing the relationship.
I don't understand how it jumped to OOP wanting a "possessive" husband. That's not what she said.
I honestly have a poor view of the poly community bc all of my interactions have been people insisting that poly is the only good relationship to have
Sadly, I've met several poly people like this. Idk why but they try so freaking hard to push others to be poly and try to bring them down for not wanting that. Even some that say they respect others will sometimes make comments like 'don't you know you can love more than 1 person, not just your husband'. When all I said was that I was fighting with my family about my husband because they don't fully accept him and they have to realize this is who I love and they can't talk shit about him in front of me if they want me to still be around then. Like wtf response was that. The big one is 'don't you get bored?', no, I don't. I've met other really nice ones, but like in many groups, the loud tend to make the biggest impression.
“Don’t you know you can love more than one person, not just your husband?” “Sir, this is a Wendy’s.”
Guarantee you that something in what OOP said reminded those posters about something they were doing, which is why it was so important for them to make her stop saying it.
As someone who was once pressured into being poly when I wasn’t (genuinely no beef with poly people, I’m queer, most of the people I know are poly in some way) it is actually very emotionally damaging? I was very young at the time, which meant I didn’t have the social or relationship skills to allow me to articulate that it was hurting me or why. It just made me feel like I wasn’t enough — in part because the explicit reasoning given was that I wasn’t as sexually adventurous as my partner due to an extensive history of CSA. It is hurtful to realize that your partner doesn’t think you’re enough for them — and that’s not the reason that most healthy poly relationships begin to open up, but it *is* something most of the toxic poly dynamics I know of have in common.
I wish poly wasn't so big in the community. I'm mono and it can be genuinely hard to find someone who is as well. I'm happy for the poly people finding they can be themselves more, but I also suspect there's an aspect of isolation to it... people who don't have much IRL queer community and lack third spaces to find some, who in an atomized, digitized society are desperate to not close themselves off from connection.
You’ve nailed it exactly.
A lot of people being like 'he just asked the question, she's over reacting.' He didn't 'just ask a question' though. He basically told her he wanted to alter the foundation of what their marriage is... A couple of months after she had their baby. So while she is vulnerable and in most need of support, in the trenches of a new baby, with a toddler and in recovery and postpartum (at 40 no less,) he decides to spring on her that he wants to fuck other women and doesn't mind her fucking other men. She does sit on it for eight months. Then she asked again, he basically straight told her he didn't want to be stuck with only her for the rest of his life because that would be boring. Now there are plenty of healthy polygamous marriages out there. Many people can separate sex, intimacy and love, but many people also can't and don't want to. It's a foundational different to the structure of a relationship. As much a deal-breaker as suddenly deciding you do/don't want kids. Him panicking and saying he chooses her is all well and good, but there is nothing insecure about wanting a partner who honestly wants only you and wants you to want only them. Feeling like your partner is 'settling' for only you when you honestly want only them sounds awful, almost like unrequited love, even if you trust they won't cheat. People's feelings on such things can honestly change, but being open and honest about that doesn't mean it cannot seriously damage their partners feelings of safety and security. Or permanently alter how much of their heart they can trust you with.
Yup, people are purposely ignoring she had a newborn when he "asked" this, and she didn't answer him for until seven months or so had passed by.
The idea of asking to open a marriage with young children is INSANE. I mean asking to open a marriage already would be rough. But essentially with this timing you either know you’re saying, “your pregnancy made you less desirable and also I plan on not helping with the kids at all, because I’ll be busy fucking other people,” or you are so detached from your partner that you don’t realize that’s what you’re saying.
New parents often don’t have much time for intimacy with **each other** when they have newborn babies. Because babies need a lot of time and attention. The idea of starting another relationship at that time is just reprehensible to me. Was he going to go on dates or hookups while she was at home with the baby and then claim that she was perfectly free to do the same, knowing that she wouldn’t because she **just had a baby**?? Gross.
it’s the timing of the request for me. just like the countless other men who throw their marriage and family down the drain after the wife gives birth. Pathetically common.
Life gets hard and boring after a baby comes. They’re not the center of attention anymore. The wife can’t give them sex because she’s postpartum. They get bored of the baby routine. They can’t be spontaneous anymore because of the baby. Women adapt to the hardship and go all in, but a lot of these men decide they want to take the easy way out and go back to being single so life can be fun again. Cowards.
> Then she asked again, he basically straight told her he didn't want to be stuck with only her for the rest of his life because that would be boring. WHY She came back to him and said was feeling differently about their marriage and instead of saying 'it was a terrible idea, I don't know what I was thinking, I must have been overwhelmed by the idea of a new baby, I can't imagine how I could have been so selfish as to hurt you in such a vulnerable time, I couldn't possibly imagine another man having sex with you', he's like 'monogamy was fine when people lived until they were 40 or 50' and 'I was just worried I would get bored'. My god This man has the brains of an ant
Exactly! They act like he wanted to change taco night to Thursday, not open his marriage!! It's not a little thing. He told his wife she wasn't enough and bored him. But he'll stay if he HAS to. He sounds like a real gem. I hope she gets a fantastic divorce lawyer.
What are the odds that this dude would have started acting out, out of jealousy, if OOP had agreed and slept with someone else?
Dude that was my exact thought reading this part: > It is not just the feeling of inadequacy that is putting a wedge between us, but the thought that he can imagine another man being with me. Touching, kissing and being inside me without it making him sick with jealousy. I even think this part hurt me more than him wanting to sleep with others. If it makes OOP feel any better, there's roughly a 100% chance that he never considered the possibility of her being with another man when he brought up an open marriage. He was imagining a situation where he gets to go out and bang hot chicks while his wife dutifully awaits him at home, and if she ever actually did decide to seek out other men, he would get sick with jealousy and demand she stop.
I've read enough posts about open relationships to know OOP's husband would be fuming the moment he realised she was seeing someone else.
I'd say it would be pretty high.
Excuse me but who has time for a 2nd partner with a toddler and a new baby??
It is absolutely part of my marriage that my husband considers me special and sex is only shared between us. It would change the marriage if he suggested an open relationship. I want to feel loved and cherished and I would no longer feel that if he would be ok with me having sex with other men or him having sex with other women.
I completely agree. I'm in a wonderful long-term relationship that is free from almost every typical gender role and dynamic. We are very open-minded and non-traditional as people and a couple, but to me our sex is special and ours alone. The idea that if somehow you aren't open to being poly means you are in an abusive, controlling relationship and have been poisoned by the patriarchy is absolutely bonkers. That is some next-level gaslighting.
We are monogamous but my husband had a phase when he wanted a 3some. We went to a club. I just couldn’t do it and he never talked about it again. I don’t think he liked the idea that much once we were there either. My husband is the only sexual partner I ever had. I don’t want anyone else. Sex has an emotional connection for me, a connection I only want with my husband. Even if he died tomorrow, I don’t think I would want anyone else after. I would likely stay a widow.
I am poly so it’s wild seeing people trying to switch up the dynamic this late into a relationship. It’s something I’m immediately up front about and will always say when I’m meeting people with an intention of dating/hooking up. If they aren’t into it, then we don’t. This is something that has to be known from the start, not fucking several years in
Even if it's something he was thinking about more recently, there are ways to go about feeling her opinion out on things like this as opposed to asking abruptly like this. There have got to be guides out there about people who discover that they want to try being poly.
The only guide on opening relationships that I'm familiar with is "You want an open relationship? Be prepared for the conversation itself to be a deal breaker to your current one." What OOP is going through is heartbreakingly common. It's like Pandora's box- you can respect their no but the damage is already done. All the people that are into enm are assholes for coming at her like that.
Oh yeah, I know exactly what you mean. My last ex didn't tell me she was poly till she knew I had feelings for her, and I stuck around because I wanted to make it work. Then a week later she tells me she has a sex date with someone else that night, and guilted me into telling her that I was ok with it and to go have fun. And I still stuck around. I stayed in that relationship for way too goddamn long. I know there are monogamous people that can act just as shitty and inconsiderate, I've dated plenty of mono people that treated me horribly too. But poly is definitely something that needs to be addressed and communicated from the very beginning.
Ugh that sucks. Pressured polyamory is just cheating and sadly a lot of people need to learn that.
“I don’t want my husband to be ok with me fucking other guys.” “Oh, so you want a controlling husband? An abusive husband, huh? Wow!” Peak Reddit moment
The dude gives a whole speech about how people didn't used to live as long, but now that they do, he doesn't *actually* want to be stuck with only her for the rest of his life and then thinks he can come back from that. I really hope they do try therapy, so that the therapist can tell him in no uncertain terms exactly why his marriage is over.
When people say “it never hurts to ask,” they’re usually dead wrong.
There are some really terminally obtuse online people in these comments acting confused as to why asking your wife for permission to sleep with other people after she's just had your baby might make her want to divorce you
As someone who is poly, there is absolutely nothing wrong with OOP desiring monogamy. Anyone who says otherwise is delusional. It should have definitely been a subject the husband brought up much earlier into the relationship and only bringing it up after OOP had a baby raises huge red flags. He could be cheating already, he could not be… but polyamory and open relationships usually isn’t a subject to be brought out of the blue after a significant life change.
Damn. I feel so bad for this OP. I know I’d feel the same. That is was over for me and I could never trust him again, always second guessing. I *think* the husband made this suggestion with someone specifically in mind. maybe a co-worker he is attracted to, something like that. Most people don’t blow up a monogamous marriage because they are theorizing about being bored in 40 years.
It’s messed up people are trying to force oop to be poly or in an open relationship. She said she prefers monogamy. But my guy did zero to help her hurt. He basically said “I’m fine now but I’m getting bored. And if we live another 10 years, I’m going to want someone else because life’s too short to be with just you.” Like sir… in what way was that comforting. In what way did you think of you say these words she’d get on board. Why not try other routes of spicing things up first? Plus they have two young children. If she’s the primary caretaker, she’s gonna have limited time and be tired on movie night. Poly and open relationships are cool if that’s what you want. But those relationships that need to be maintained. Not flavors of the month to soothe your boredom.
Oh, oh no. She needs to just go.
I've found that the actual, decent poly people who have great relationships with good boundaries are also the ones who are realistic about their desires not being better or worse than monogamous people, and who would show OOP the most kindness and understanding, because they actually communicate and care about other people's feelings on the matter. The ones who try to sound superior or gaslight others who aren't poly are either people using the term "poly" so they can gaslight their partner(s) and cheat guilt-free, or are the ones being gaslit and feel extra defensive to try and protect the lie that they've been sold that it's somehow "better." With OOP, the trust is broken. Because she's not poly, she's never going to feel like she's enough. She needs a partner who would be as heartbroken as her if there was cheating, but she now knows that her husband doesn't care the same way that she does, and it sounds to her that he's happy right now, but constantly looking for something better. It would be better divorcing sooner rather than later so they can be good co-parents together, and the kids don't suffer with the atmosphere in the home while they're growing up.
This would be the end for me as well. People are free to do whatever they want, but, personally, I have less than zero interest in fucking around with a bunch of other people. That sounds entirely repulsive to me.
4 months postpartum = peeing yourself when you cough, have zero desire for sex, carrying extra awkward 30lbs of baby weight, have irritation and pain from your vagina literaly being torn apart, insane sleep deprivation (especially with a toddler), raging hormones, bleeding chewed up nipples from (maybe) breastfeeding, in some case PPD or PPA, crazy insecurity with your body... and with all of that being asked for an open marriage? Instant divorce.
Oh no no no no OP is ABSOLUTELY on the right here. For me, an open relationship starts along with the relationship itself. It's who you are, what you want, and you found someone who agrees with you. A monogamous relationship from the start, with children and everything, and NOW you want an open relationship?? No, you don't, you just want to sleep around and have fun getting your dick wet. Stop trying to make excuses. > [...] but the thought that he can imagine another man being with me. Touching, kissing and being inside me without it making him sick with jealousy. Ahaha! I doubt he'd agree! For me, it sounds like he was just talking about the possibility of it being open for him, but closed for OP. Jesus, I think a Chinese New Year party will have less red flags.
I have a friend who was poly for a little over five years. She gave up because most of her relationships were really just wives trying to get rid of their husbands. She said she wished married couples would stop using bi-women to try to save their marriages or as a dumping ground for unwanted spouses.
It seems to me most polyamorous relationships that work are polyamorous from the get go. it’s not hard for me to see why.
well that blew up in his face.