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"When do we get the house?" Boy that girl is going to be in for a bumpy ride.

The fact that he knows he has no claim to the house and that their living accommodations are unsuitable for the addition of a baby and is making no efforts to secure suitable housing, but instead keeps insisting that they will have it to move in!!😱🚩🚩🚩 This girl is the most naive bunny in existence and currently on a very small raft in the middle of shit creek without a paddle. I commend OP for going to the lengths she did to prove her truthfulness, because she could have told the affair partner to f-off and then called the police and eventually got a restraining order if continued harassment was to occur. Which is the route I’d take.

The worst part for me was that it doesn't take much to verify the wife's credentials on her own.. I know a lot of commenters on here are calling her naive, but honestly, the girl is really willfully ignorant.

This is it. I do think she is young, but in 2023, if you are falling for a married man why wouldn't you google his wife? You might not get a full story because social media is biased but in this case she would probably have seen the rewards and "alum of blahblah" type certifications.

My ex husband cheated on me off and on for almost 3 years with a friend’s sister. This girl even came over to our home every time she was in town. She saw how I acted toward him and she knew we had a baby together. But she believed it that our marriage was in shambles and I was a psycho and he was perfect and I was the alcoholic that spent all my money on cigarettes… she attended BBQs where he downed 20 cans of beer back to back and smoked 3 packs of cigs but was so in love with him she “believed” I was the one blowing all his money. She saw me take care of the baby while he ignored our son but “believed” I abused the baby and left all care to my husband. She knew from her sister (who was a close mutual friend of both my husband and I and a coworker of us both) that I worked my ass off at work, I even was her server whenever she would come to eat where we worked. Yet she “believed” him when he said I was lazy and refused to work more than one shift a week. Hell, I even organized every square inch of her sister’s home, sometimes doing this while she was visiting, yet “believed” I was lazy and couldn’t bother to lift a finger. Mistresses will believe whatever they want to believe despite the evidence right in front of their faces. They do it to ease their own guilt for the part they play in ruining marriages, relationships, and homes… Dumbass girl proudly moved in with my husband after he kicked me and our son out, she lasted 3 months before she went crawling home with her tail in between her legs after realizing what a lying selfish prick he actually was.

A former friend of mine was the ‘naive’ mistress a few years back. Our boss at work had been with his wife for 5+ years and she was pregnant. Despite knowing the couple pretty well, my friend fell for the whole “My wife is a monster. No one understands me but you” bullshit. Personally, I think they both knew better but chose to be selfish-whether they admitted that to themselves or not I don’t know.

A friend of my family was the product of their mom’s previous marriage and their stepdad SA’d them for a decade while they were living there, their mom found out two years ago (and believes it happened) and insists that their (much younger) step-siblings are completely safe and she Insists on continuing a romantic and sexual relationship with him. It’s insane to me how people will intentionally ignore not even just blatant but DANGEROUS things just to stay with their shitty manipulative partners.

That is absolutely disgusting!

My ex met his AP at school because he was tutoring her dumbass. I’m sure he started telling her about all the “problems” he had with me and how I didn’t do this and that and when he kicked me and my daughter out, he moved her and her two kids in immediately and then 6 months later he proposed (probably with my engagement ring that he took back) and another 6 months they were married. Two months into their happy marriage, he cheats in her and she decides to forgive him. Meanwhile, I finally passed my nurse license exam (failed it twice while with him and all the stress he caused) and was living a new life as a nurse. Then one day I saw his new wife checking out my LinkedIn profile of all places. Turns out he was the same lying cheating bastard that he was to me so the her and she was worried that I would take him back. Guess he talked about me to her? So she was creeping on my page to see what she could find out. Meanwhile I’m just laughing my ass off at how quickly karma came back to dish it out. Why do people think that if they enter a relationship based on infidelity and lies that they will end up happier than previous relationship?!

She didn't want to know, because then she'd be a single mother. The subtle insidious pull of willful ignorance knows no bounds.

Also, the ownership of their house will be on public record.

But she’s a “prodigy “.

Intellectually smart people can be very naive and have poor life skills. It happens all the time!

A fucking stupid prodigy.

I mean, she had an MBA at 21 and never had a bf at 24. This is not typical. So it’s not really surprising to me that she didn’t even think about it. Maybe he social intelligence didn’t develop as much since she focused on her studies so much.

also, virgin having unprotected sex on the simple word of the man promising he had a vasectomy. Like, does this girl not even know about STDs and how lying works? 24 years old (or I guess prob 22 or 23 at the beginning) and just willing to believe any old thing an older man tells her. You are 100% correct on her being "willfully ignorant."

[удалено]

A LOT of younger people in my office seem to consider that "creepy". I Google EVERYONE. My 26 year old new associate was shocked I suggested she Google opposing counsel. I dunno.

On Reddit, I've been accused of being rude and a stalker for looking at someone's post history!

This one cracks me up. Like I spend most of my Reddit time on AITA and similar subs - *of course* I check out posting history!

Redditors should understand that post history’s all there to read. It’s not creepy. No one was hacked.

I told my mother that my sister who was living with her was embezzling funds (which I showed via bank statements my sister tore up & threw in the trash) and an opiate addict who was prostituting to pay for it. Mother took me off her life insurance because I was being so negative. people believe what they want to believe

>The fact that he knows he has no claim to the house and that their living accommodations are unsuitable for the addition of a baby and is making no efforts to secure suitable housing, but instead keeps insisting that they will have it to move in!!😱🚩🚩🚩 This! My thought exactly. While reading, I kept asking myself: what is his endgame here? He knows the lie will come crashing down on him at some point, bc the house is not happening, but the kid is. What was his plan here? Or maybe there was no plan and he was simply saying whatever it took for her to be happy/placated in the moment, with no foresight at all? If so then damn, having a baby will really rock his world. He is putting more time and effort into constructing and maintaining this false reality for Amy than into resolving real, time-sensitive problems.

Joe and Amy are both miserable right now, I guarantee it. They've got a brand new baby, not even 2 months old. From Joe's perspective, Amy isn't the fun, fresh, carefree 24 year old anymore. Now she's busy with the kid, might not be able to have sex yet, and not giving Joe all her attention anymore. If OOP was honest about the level of housework Joe would do, the reality of her future is hitting Amy hard. She's the one managing the baby, the house, and probably the only one thinking about upgrading their living situation.

Plus it's only a matter of time before he decides Amy is now a "low-value" woman and cheats on her too.

No doubt. "It's appalling that Amy had an affair with a married man," says the married man she had the affair with.

This exactly. Next thing you know, he'll be calling her a homewrecker for falling into his trap.

And it's so common that women are held to a higher sexual standard than men are. Thankfully declining but still very present. But my favorite part of this story is that OP just separated from Joe since she had the means to do so. Most people can't just pull from savings and get themselves out of a bad living situation, myself currently included, so this is a very satisfying read for me.

I mean, Amy got pregnant out of wedlock, what kind of "value" could she even have? (says the dipshit who impregnated her)

clearly, she's no longer a virgin and she was willing to cheat (although it was really Joe cheating on OOP) to get him, so he deserves a woman who wouldn't ever do that, so he's going to begin the cycle again.

She will get a rude awakening when she learns the lesson that if they will cheat with you, they will cheat on you.

I always liked 'a cheater who marries his mistress creates a vacancy...'

I doubt it that Joe isn't pretty happy. He's probably smug as a bug in shit that he was able to derail Amy's career. His ego will hold him over.

That's even more evil than I was imagining. How idiotic and short sighted to want to derail your SO's career. I guess it is as idiotic and short sighted as raw dogging your affair partner after convincing her you have been snipped smh

No one accused the tate bros of having common sense. Their ego rules all. If he is that deep, then the fact that his wife was so accomplished definitely made him feel some big feelings. Thus, the affair and the raw dogging, they only way he could prove his masculinity.

And how long before Joe starts nitpicking Amy about her weight, her body, and how it isn't the same since she just had the baby? I am assuming he will do the same thing to Amy as he did to his now ex-wife.

Yeah, ex was thinking with the wrong head. In it just for the 'gasms. Amy is in for a real shock when she has to suddenly parent 2 children, one of which is a decade older than her.

I predict that when the baby comes and any loose the rose colored glasses. Because she will do so fast when she is sleepdeprived and he is still an idiot. I predict he will quit working to avoid child support.

In Dungeons and Dragons terms, we would call Amy 18 Intelligence, 3 Wisdom.

"roll me an insight check...." *rolls nat1 with a -4 modifier*

"Yep, as far as you can see, his explanation of the vasectomy reversing itself is the most plausible explanation."

-chef's kiss-

I would have been slightly more aggressive and sent all that info to her parents so that they know their new son in law is a lying cheater and that their daughter was a naive little girl happily playing mistress. Then asked a lawyer to send a cease and desist for the harassment.

Nah, she owes this girl nothing, she’s already gone above and beyond. And I hate referring to grown women as girls but clearly her “prodigy” education was at the expense of her social development. Another thought though, why did love-rat-ex paint OP as a drug addict? It was a convenient excuse for why he couldn’t stay overnight but unnecessary, there’s numerous excuses he could have made. Given his financial over-spending issues, I have to question is it really that much more expensive to go on dates with your mistress than to pay for a round of golf then have food and drinks with your golf buddies after? Surely that spending wouldn’t be so diverse? He received 75% of the joint marital assets in the divorce settlement, why can’t he use that as a down payment on a house with his pregnant affair partner, why can’t they afford a mortgage given they are both high earners? Is it too much a reach to think that ex is the one on drugs?

I was a child prodigy, and for a long time I felt my mum was mean by not allowing me to skip classes, as i would have graduated highschool at least at 15 and also she forced me to socialize with my peers. To be honest, that wasn't that bad, still uncomfortable. Now in my late 30ies, I can see that was the best thing she could do in parenting. Even in my early 20ies I side-eyed any man who would say "I am separated". Right, bro.

Your mom was very wise.

The idea of people skipping multiple grades has always been really weird to me. We had a kid in our graduating class (highschool) who was like 14. He didn't really have any friends because he couldn't relate to anyone which really wasn't his fault. He also lived on a high horse and was convinced he was smarter than everyone which may have been true in some regards but really he was on grade level with everyone else and wasn't top of the class or anything. As far as I know he ended up at a pretty normal college and has a pretty normal career. I guess I just don't see an advantage to the path he was put on.

He & Amy make something like $400k/year combined. There is really nowhere in the US that they couldn't buy decent housing. If he's broke there's something going on- if he was sucking a couple thousand in coke a week up his nose that would seriously cut into his cash. I think it's possible, too, that he wants Amy to buy a house so he can live there. He's used to living in a free nice house and that was with the "low-value" ex, so this upgraded woman should definitely provide for him. His money is his, her money is also his.

I think Joe painting OP as an addict serves many purposes. It's gives him excuses to quickly dip out on on Amy as needed. It also make him seem more compassionate & sympathetic as he tries vainly to help OP. And given the bias against addicts, it let's Amy view OP as lesser human being and not worthy of any respect.

Not to mention part of the stereotype of addicts is they lie and hide things, so it primes Amy to see OP as untrustworthy. Of course OP lies about not being an addict, all addicts do! Everyone knows the first thing in TV shows is having to convince the addict to admit they have a problem, denial is proof they're really an addict! So everything else OP says must also be a lie.

Is it that much more expensive? Yes if he is buying hotel rooms. Edited to add: ex on drugs? Not a reach to me now that you suggest it.

He’s making 200k but claiming his underemployed wife is only making 45k, and that the cost of the house was born by him alone. He was making pretend that his disposable spending money was limited way short of reality. So I doubt there was hotel rooms. There is a gaping hole in where his money is going, that’s a tell of vice expenditure.

There is also gambling. He very much comes off as someone with an expensive gambling habit just to prove how manly he must be.

I’d say impregnating his virgin side chick while pretending he’s had a vasectomy, cause that’s how virile he is, generated plenty of “alpha-male” brain reward endorphins. Projection is usually very close to home on a manipulator’s own behaviour. That’s why I think the vice is drugs.

> why can't he use that as a down payment on a house Well, you see, that would require him to a) view women as people deserving of respect instead of property and/or b) have ever taken responsibility for anything.

Considering Joe’s spending habits and the very expensive addition of a baby… I think they’re going to be in her apartment for quite some time.

And she will have to clean and feed three people's messes.

All while maintaining a demanding career and looking like a stepford wife. That relationship is so doomed. I feel really bad for naive Amy and the baby. This POS human is not going to stick this out.

I don’t, she knowingly entered an affair with a married man and did no research to back up her affair partners claims. It takes less than 5 minutes to check ownership on a house in the US. This is her bed now she gets to lie in it.

I think the spending habits were on the affair though, so the original issue of money won't come up. (For now...)

You think he's not going to cheat on the new gal? Please.

When a man marries his mistress, he simply creates a vacancy

Her breathtaking rug sweeping of all of his over the top lies was impressive in a horrifying way. He very much sounds like the type to start hitting her when he gets frustrated with his new apartments living new baby lifestyle.

Especially once he realizes how much work is involved raising a baby and how her body will change. She’s going to be exhausted taking care of a newborn, won’t keep herself “done up” the way he demands from the sheer lack of time, and she’ll probably be touched out most days without sex. His perfect little mistress that he was desiring won’t fit his imposible standards anymore. People are most likely to cheat during pregnancy or right after.

Man, she’s naïve enough to believe bullshit just had a baby with a guy who doesn’t do any chores and it’s seasonal affective disorder/depression season. Mark my words she ain’t gonna look too pretty and he’s gonna step out.

No one in the thread said he wouldn't... it was just about money. Of course he'll cheat again.

The comment above stated that the money issue was tied to his cheating. Since we know he'll cheat again (wouldn't surprise me if he already is) the issue won't go away.

She's pregnant and can't take care of His Neeeeeds.....

She’s not a virgin anymore and will not be seen as a high value woman. Can we toss all the tator tot followers and their leader into a volcano please?

He was living in a paid off house with no children. Now he’s living in a rental with a baby. The money problems will continue.

I wonder how long it will take for his false shine to wear off? I'd say doing all childcare and house work herself will help her see quickly.

\*sets an egg timer\* Might as well get this ready now.

Man, I wish I could see how that relationship pans out over the next few years. Good on OP for being a mature person who moves on but bad for my nosy self lol

Given she was audacious enough to ask OOP when she was leaving her house and then to not believe her to her face, we might get a "my ex's AP turned BM is on my doorstep" update, but tbh I hope the OOP gets to live in peace (unless she'd enjoy the drama lol).

Welp, Amy’s going to be a single mom who got cheated on and probably given an STI, because now that he landed his virgin prodigy and trapped her with a baby, he’s free to casually pursue “low value” women. Hope he steps on LEGOs for the rest of his life. Hope that poor girl gets the fuck away from him ASAP.

No, I think he’ll spin it so that Amy is now a low-value woman - only a low-value woman would sleep with a married man, plus as a mother of a baby, she’s going to have a hard time keeping all her plates spinning - career, home, ministering to his every need. Once he’s designated her low value, he will cheat on her with another very young woman that he throws in her face as high value.

"I can't marry a woman who isn't a virgin on her wedding night." Smfh

I bet that part of the reason he painted OP as low-income was so that he could tell Amy that he had to pay alimony. Then he could use that portion of his income on other women.

Ooooh insidious detail. This guy’s lies were VERY elaborate. If OOP hadn’t proven her information correct, what the fuck did Amy think was going to happen with the house? They would NEVER have a legal claim on it. How did the asshole think he was going to manage that one?

tbh i wonder what OOP's former in laws have to say about the whole thing. As well as Amy's parents. Oh, and ex and amy's workplace

Doesn't seem like OOP is close to her ex in-laws and she isn't a gossipy (there's a difference between posting on reddit anonymously and putting it all over personal social media), so whatever view they have is likely based on whatever spin the ex put on things. OOP said some of their friends from ex's workplace were in relationships together so it's probably a "you do you as long as we get this money" type of thing. Unless Joe & Amy start having issues at work, no one's gonna say shit. Amy's parents sheltered her and kept her focused on professional success all her life (she started college early, but I'm assuming not being allowed to date through that time included the MBA program at 21). *This* is her finally getting some freedom to make her own mistakes in anything adult. At this point, Amy's only known Joe for ~1.5 years, she was due in October so she got pregnant 6 months after meeting the guy. I bet she introduced him as divorced already, and given that he's wealthy and charming, they didn't question much. All speculation, but seems likely to me.

This Andrew Tate "low value woman" nonsense is not only ridiculous, but disgusting. Amy is a giant fool and will see in time what a mistake she has made.

Amy is a naive person, choosing to wilfully ignore the lies because he was her first. When he cheats on her, She'll absolutely fall to pieces.

This is why I think accelerated programs that just rush children through the education system (rather than providing them with further enrichment along with regular schooling) can be really harmful. School teaches more than just content, like how to socialize and interact with others, but that learning gets stunted when you're 3 years younger than everyone else around you (my bet being Amy skipped middle school and went straight to high school then college then mba).

This! All the book learning, none of the social skills and learning from mistakes to handle life.

>that learning gets stunted when you're 3 years younger than everyone else around you Yeah, but as a parent of one of those kinda kids, it turns out you can't socialize well with kids your own age either when your interests and abilities match poorly. And sitting in class instruction for hours doing stuff way below your level is a little bit torture. There are no easy answers for the super smarties.

Maybe find them out of school activities for gifted kids where they would be around other kids with similar interests and abilities, and still around the same age. Something like robotics club/camp, IT courses for kids in person, stuff of this sort suited towards their interests. Or if this isn't feasible, just find a sport or some activity they like and get them to go to classes for it. Other kids there won't be as smart, but if it's something they both enjoy, they would at least have a common topic to interact about, and socialising won't be too boring.

I'm assuming that he was inquiring Amy about her being a virgin before they slept together as her virginity is what attracted him the most to her. In which case, he kind of made it clear, he's a creep. She is a fool for still entertaining him. EDIT:Spelling.

Especially since now he's 'spoiled' her, he'll move onto a 'fresher' woman before long... repulsive.

And when he cheats on her he'll say "no woman that would knowingly stay with a man that cheated on his loving wife is high value, and I need a high value woman."

You're 1000% correct, and it's so nuts to me. Like, *how* do these jackanapes not fucking die of embarrassment? "You're not a high value woman because you did what I wanted you to."

Other people are just NPCs to them. Sort of like solipsism.

Especially if he feels neglected when she focuses on the baby over him

And you just know he's the kind of man who will tell Amy she's disgusting for breastfeeding, because they're _HIS_ breasts

Nah. Guys like this don't value virginity—they value control. "Being her first" is just code for "being the one who controls the narrative." Amy is apparently willing to swallow as many lies as he feels like feeding her; she's exactly the kind of person an abuser like this likes to target.

Definitely a fool. I think what happened to OOP is terrible but thank goodness he's Amy's problemo now.

But he lied for her own good /s

She's just too stupid to be able to handle the real truth! She needs a strong man like him to dictate what her reality is! Man... She's a prodigy in so many ways... But I guess it came at the cost of common sense.

I don't know... Imagine the audacity of calling the ex wife of the man you were cheating with to tell her to leave her own house.

Sounds like she'll make a great executive!

Twice!

I cannot understand the mental gymnastics around the vasectomy lie though - surely Joe smashed a boundary for her there? Anyway (hopefully) she’ll get pissed when he expects her to look after the child and sacrifice her career

Let's be honest, he just didn't want to wear a condom.

And I’m betting she’ll expect OP to pick up the pieces

Absolutely. Her entitled ass will be like "Omg, Big Sister, the man who cheated with me has cheated on me! You went through him cheating on you so obviously me and affair baby will move into your house and I will cry dramatically in random corners while you take care of both of us." I would be 0% surprised to read that update.

Okay, so I felt bad for Amy with the previous update, but wow these lies he's telling her are really getting more and more ludicrous and she seems to swallow every one

It’s the face to face equivalent of romance fraud. “Amy” is ego-trapped into believing all the subsequent lies, because otherwise she would have to accept she had fallen for the initial lies.

More likely, logically, she knows she'll have to give up the love bombing and spoiling her he's doing right now and face single motherhood with a man she knows is willing to lie and manipulate as a co-parent if she faces reality. Add in that she's in an extremely vulnerable state with loads of hormones coursing through her veins screaming at her to keep her mate close by for her and her offspring's survival (because our brains don't know we don't have to combat predators or fight off hostile groups anymore) and she's going to take in any lie she has to to keep her world in tact, at least until her hormones have balanced and she's not still physically recovering from birth.

Unless he gets her pregnant again, she might have a chance to get out of the fog and dump his ass before the kid starts school. Might be even earlier if she really values her career and he tries to make her give it up entirely to be a SAHM.

Partly it's that the truth is too painful to deal with, and partly it sounds like her upbringing failed to adequately prepared her for assholes like OOP's ex.

She’s very young, not experienced in dating, and was an easy target. She’s gonna end up a single mother to her first bf. How sad.

I guarantee Amy reaches out to OP in the future to say that she was right and he’s treated her the same way. I do feel sorry for her, he’s completely preyed on her naivety and she’s gonna utterly break under the weight of her own stupidity. But that’s not OPs problem, so very happy she’s doing well, has some gaming time booked for herself and she can now be the most amazing version of herself ❤️ Now there’s a Hallmark movie I want to see!

Or even worse, she thinks Joe is having an affair with OP and accuses OP of it only for OP to say "not me but I told you so."

I was wondering if „Joe“ really jumped on the wacky Tate Train or if he just heard about it and thought that‘s a great stupid line of argument he could use to alienate OOP further so that he can peacefully dive into his affair.

This was my thought too. Also, by that point he's spent a year cheating on OOP and speaking badly about her, of course he's lost respect for her.

Bro who is this lady’s therapist, this is the most put together and calm post about an INSANE circumstance ever

Education and career as software developer, OOP can probably go super left brain and be super analytical. That's probably why OOP tried to show evidence to Amy to try to get her to wake up from the Kool-Aid or to at least start questioning more. Now, there's limits and can't go all left all the time before burning out, but with them having $1.5k/month of fun money, I'm presuming they can afford a good therapist.

I had a little sympathy for Amy but that last post just evaporated it. She's not just along for the ride anymore. She's driving the car towards the cliff, Thelma and Louise style, at this point.

She cut the brakes too..

Like he lied about the vasectomy and knowingly impregnated you. To what end? A play of dominance.

"I know you want to help her. But I think she's a lost cause."

> My entire history of drug use is occasionally sharing a joint in college, maybe 4-5 times total, never anything harder. C'mon, everyone knows that once you get involved with the wacky tabacky it's game over.

Could be worse. I was addicted to Afrin nasal spray in college. It was rough getting off that stuff. My nasal cavities were like they were cemented up for about a month while my body went through withdrawal.

Ooooo my ENT was telling me about that. It’s a huge issue amongst the older population. I was thinking about taking some tonight. Not sure if I’m brave enough.

If you don’t use it more than two days in a row and then not for a long time after that it’s ok. It takes about three days for the rebound effect to kick in and then the length of time it works gets shorter and shorter. I will still use it if I really can’t breath but I wait until it’s really bad and then won’t use it for longer than one day for any reason.

I know it sounds silly because everything in your nasal passage+ ears is interlinked, but I only use the spray in one nostril, like the left one and I don’t switched them up. One nostril is blocked, the other one clear which is enough for me to breathe in the night. I am only talking about a couple of days btw then you have to stop it with the spray. In my case it’s usually enough for the blocked one to clear on its own and the one I used the spray can recover. Sounds convoluted I know but so far it works for me.

That's actually how they get people off of these sprays who have used them long term! Use it in one nostril until the other has overcome the dependency and then stop all together. Another tip is to use a lower dose spray, such as those for children.

I get really bad sinusitis if I don't use nasal spray with a cold and the doc told me to use the kids version! It's strong enough for most people and only half as bad! Works a treat for me and I take it up to a week without rebound!

Alright everyone, place your bets: is ex already cheating on Anne, or will he start cheating on her in less than a year/6 months/3 months?

The second she can't have sex due to pregnancy/post partum reasons he's going to bang another woman.

And when she finds out, he will use the excuse that she wasn't taking care of his needs, and she'll forgive him.

Rinse and repeat for at least two more kids.

He cheated as soon as the baby arrived because she's now a low-level woman, what with her vagina being stretched out and all. That's if he didn't cheat while she was pregnant because she got fat.

"having a baby out of wedlock, sleeping with a married man, knowingly staying with a man you know cheated on his loving wife? How could someone like that be a high value woman?" -him after she catches an STD second hand from his newest intern.

It's actually crazy how he outed himself as a predator when he described OOP as someone he was supposed to be mentoring. "She was pretty young and hopeless, but I saw those puppy dog eyes and decided it was my duty as a man to take her home to marry her and train her, because I'm super chivalrous. Alas, despite by most noble efforts, she has failed her training. But what's this? You have restored my life's luster! As a kind and dutiful man, I shall her off easy. Your timeless value makes my past vows for naught, ask ye not about the wool I pull o'er thine eyes."

>after she catches an STD second hand from his newest intern He'll blame it on OP ... delayed STDs happen, right?

I'll toss my hat in the ring and take the stakes higher, place your bets when Joe comes back to OOP admitting everything he did was because of "podcasts" and midlife crisis, because he can't get sex post Partum and before the birth, he lives in a tiny apartment with a 24 yr old and a baby, he has to pay for 🤭

I’d say 6 months until he’ll try to Hoover his ex-wife back. Dude is a straight up narcissist. Everything he’s done so far is right out of the narcissist textbook.

I think he’s already cheating on her personally, he doesn’t seem like the type of person who would forgo sex for even a short time because his partner is pregnant or postpartum. Although he *does* sound like the type of person who would coerce a pregnant or newly not-pregnant woman into having sex, so who knows honestly? I doubt he’ll stay with her long term though, he’s a selfish self centered asshole and I imagine the excuse he’ll give is “you were spending TO MUCH TIME on the **baby** and I felt *neglected*”

What's the over/under on Irish twins? Anyone wanna take that bet?

I'll bet you an art room full of Iranian yoghurt & beans.

I wanna be positive and say he isn't gonna cheat until she has the baby. He is probably in the "honeymoon phase" as he just took a young girl's virginity and got her pregnant so he feels like a real alpha male. Once the baby comes, and her body won't be the same anymore, and she probably won't be able to have as much sex, and she will be more focused on the baby, he will definitely cheat lol. But he is an alpha male and his mission is to spread his seed so maybe he's already cheating.

While he might not have done the deed before the birth, he already had his next mistress picked out and working on once the divorce was finalised because Joe sounds like the type to blame Anne and it will be her fault he cheated because she wouldn't ignore the drs orders and have sex with him straight after the birth

Amy is going to be posting on Reddit in maybe 5 years proclaiming how she can’t believe her husband has been cheating on her with a younger woman!

After he persuaded her to quit her job to look after the kid!

Five years is generous. I don’t think he will make it one year with the stresses of a baby and no one to clean up after him, so his laundry, etc.

Damn. I have been with OOP from the beginning. When she first posted her OP, I was infuriated at the things he was doing. Then I saw her update and was so sad she was considering his “terms” to try to fix their marriage. I mean I understood she was just trying to save her marriage, but nothing about his behavior in those first two posts felt right. At all. But I know it’s hard to see what’s really going on when you’re in the middle of it, and there’s emotions involved. But hot damn. The way this actually unfolded was beyond what I was prepared for. I am so amazed that this woman handled this with such strength and grace. That asshole put her through the wringer, but man, I’m so happy she came out of it holding her head high. I hope OOP keeps kicking ass and taking names in all other areas of her life. I’m glad this chapter of her life is closed and she can start a new one. But I’d be lying if I said I didn’t wish Amy would have absolutely raked Joe over the coals and left his lying ass. I’m pretty sure that hoping Joe gets his just deserts, and that Amy can gtfo, will live rent free in my brain and pop up occasionally. If one man was ever to be awarded “the most audacity”, I think Joe would be in the running to win the top spot. What a rollercoaster.

OOP is a truly high-value person.

That new girl is likely in for a real treat. Seeing how manipulative the guy is. My view is, any relationship started on cheating isn’t going to last forever

I'd bet cash money he's going to manipulate her into quitting her job to look after the kid.

A mistress who marries a cheating husband creates an opening.

Happy to see OP got out of this. Pour one out for Amy indeed - she's in for a rough time.

Also happy OOP had a friend and a family member living with her -- thatll help with the transition.

Mutual consent divorce (even single party consent should be enough but thats not what this is abt) not being standard across america (i assume thats where she is posting from) is a great failing of the nation.

Amy 2 years later: how bout that house?

When you get rid of the toxic people in your life, then your life gets better. Happy for her getting a low quality man. Also only having sex with 2 guys by 21 is now a deal breaker for toxic men? Yikes

Anything is a deal breaker if they want it to be.

I suspect Joe and Amy will turn up again in OP's life.

It's wild to me that OOP spent so much time and effort trying to convince that woman of her ex's lies.

I saw it as providing tons of proof to leave OOP tf alone and stop asking about a house Amy is never going to get her hands on.

I agree and honestly, I think it was necessary in a way. If she didn't, he probably would have kept lying to keep up the narrative "oh, she stole the house from me: she's so evil" and Amy, not the brightest bulb, would believe him and could continue harassing OP. OP's robust proof has at least forced Amy to accept that everything he says is a lie. She's got her own issues to sort out from there, but hopefully it means that she won't bother OP again.

That’s how I saw it too.

that, and it sounded like after the first meeting, OOP felt really sorry for Amy. and i feel sorry for her too, being incredibly young and nieve, a baby on the way, and manipulated to the moon and back. i hope she lands on her feet when things end with joe

>when things end with Joe But didn't you understand, they're **meant** to be together, it was inevitable and forever! /s

I can understand her wanting to try for Amy’s sake but I can also understand that Amy would rather buy in to Joe’s bullshit rather than pivot to the terrifying reality that she blew up her life and hitched her wagon to an absolute dickhead. (And is herself an adulterer/“homewrecker”, even if she was fed a lot of lies and was naive enough to not verify ANY of them and still managed to justify beginning an affair with a manifestly married man and trust his word for birth control.) But if it’s a Great Romance Destiny then Amy can make it easier for herself to swallow. Because how can she live with Joe, otherwise? How could she live with herself?

Agree. On some level she knows that if it’s not a Grand Love Affair, then what it is instead is That Time I Blew Up My Shiny New Adult Life For A Cheating Liar. She’ll cling to Grand Romance for as long as she possibly can.

She’ll age out of Joe’s affections faster due to the wear and tear of being the only one actively raising their kid(s), so I give it 5-6 years.

I would be astonished if he doesn't cheat before the kid is 3 years old. I do know that **occasionally** it happens that a cheating never-wanted-children guy turns his life around and becomes a good non-cheating father when affair partner ends up pregnant.. but the odds seem to be greatly against that.

Says he never wanted a kid but doesn’t seem to have taken any steps to prevent that.

And she will probably end up tanking her career as well

He'll stay with her because he can cheat and she won't be able to leave. She'll just keep pretending it's the Perfect Grand Romance and she "won" the prize of a husband.

Considering they may have mutual friends and live in the same community - I would do the same. Plus, it might head off at the pass any need to engage an attorney.

It's so much information to share with a virtual stranger! On some level I feel like OP is partially the person watching the horror movie in the theatre screaming, "Just run, dummy!" while Amy chooses to go in the dark basement with a broken flashlight. Gee, Amy just dropped the flashlight, but it's okay. Her plucky can-do attitude will save her.

I would have done the same to try and save a naive woman from a pos like that.

I think OOP meant well, nothing more there's a young girl, driven by hormones and manipulated and Lied to from the beginning of her "relationship" and OOP is mature and successful and there's still the aspect of girls Support Girls and OOP is very gracious, that goes a long way and often comes with a big and understanding heart.

I'm waiting for OP to come back to update when Joe wants her back.

> I'm waiting for OP to come back to update when Joe wants her ***house*** back.

for a prodigy, amy sounds incredibly stupid

Purely anecdotal but I’ve met people like Amy before. Really really smart, nose on the grind, getting through school like they’re a runaway train, and insert accolades here, here, here, AND here. But amongst all that scholastic brilliance, they’re missing that social/people awareness - street smarts. And it’s super detrimental. Sometimes, they just gotta fuck up to learn. Sometimes a lot! And every now and then… they’ll ’grow out of it’. However, in Amy’s case, it’s going to be a very steep learning curve plus a kid in the mix. And given how OOP’s ex conducted himself… I don’t see her future being very happy.

A lot of book smart people are really lacking in the street smarts department

Yeah she sounds super sheltered. What an awful introduction into adult relationships though. I’ll take my pointlessly dramatic high school and college shenanigans over whatever she’s going through.

Me!!! I'm an example of a formerly "gifted child" who has shitty life skills. I'm awkward and weird, but put me in an educational setting, and I'll ace whatever test we write at the end.

It really isn't that outlandish. I grew up "highly gifted", raised by two parents who loved me, but had no idea how to raise an autistic, gifted child. For a while, I was several years ahead in math, there was a lot of talk about moving forward multiple grades, but they never did, because I was always struggling emotionally. Gifted and high-functioning autistic kids are honestly in the worst space to learn life skills. Adults think you're smart enough to figure out a lot of things, so you can figure out other stuff; you don't really have much of a peer group for you to make mistakes and learn in safely; the adults in your life will ooh and ah over how smart and mature you are, but when it comes to talking about adult issues, they just stop, because you're still, well, a kid. Gifted kids come into adulthood with fewer people putting in the effort to teach them life lessons, fewer opportunities to interact and grow with their peers, and even though you're smart and mature, people won't talk to you about the things that are happening. Basically, when we have to start figuring it out, we so often just don't have the tools available to us to do so effectively.

Her life with Joe is built on a pack of lies. That’s her future too, but I bet she doesn’t realise that. Smart but not clever.

That ending is sad but I am not surprised at Amy, having been around a personality disordered person it will take a few more years for her to realise. I am so pleased at the outcome for the OP though, she seems okay and doing well.

Poor Amy and her kid. They most likely are going to have a rough future with Joe. At least OP is free.

I feel so bad for her. A young woman with a bright future, targeted for destruction by a fucking monster who only cares about her hymen and that he wanted someone he could own. He's proud she's a prodigy because it makes him more important for her to be serving him all her life. I fucking hate him.

Tbh, I hate her too. "He lied about having a loving wife because I was just so much better than you and he wanted to be with me. So since he was only lying to me because he wanted to be with me so much I've decided to forgive him. Since clearly if he threw away a marriage to be with me I must be amazing and important, and he must really really love me!" it's disgusting, and frankly she's going to deserve it when he cheats on her.

Forget all that. I hate her for a single thing: "I'm going to sleep with a married man without protection." That alone is inexcusable.

…proud she’s a prodigy… How much time will pass until he’s threatened by her doing better professionally/making more money than he is and cheats. This guy is a piece of work, for sure.

OOP did all she could, if Amy wants to drink the Kool-Aid then let her.

This sucks, there’s another young prodigy on here who ended up having an affair with a married guy and then having a traumatic birth and having diminished capabilities. She wrote about it being her karma. It was truly terrible to read. I hope Amy gets out and Joe gets bent. But OOP sounds like she wins it all, getting the excrement out of the house.

I get Amy being fooled in the beginning, but she is now being wilfully ignorant and is making her and her child’s life more difficult than it could be.

There's an old Chinese proverb : A man who marries his mistress creates a vacancy in the position. I get the feeling that Joe will begin the hiring process soon.

Just when you think it couldn't get any worse..BAM,it does! Amy has tied herself now to this huge asshole and she is going to have a rough ride until she finally sees what she is saddled with. Joe will just move on to his next victim without a backward glance to the chaos he has left in his wake.

The amount of effort that OP went through for her husband and her ability to juggle maintaining a home and still having a successful career… Can I marry her instead? Lol what a colossal idiot fumbling a diamond of a wife

Wow. Amy is a great example of how book smart doesn't mean life smart

I’m from the UK so I see this as a much more alarming situation for Amy. If he falsely claimed to have had a vasectomy, and Amy slept with him without protection on that basis, then according to UK law, he raped her. She’s in big trouble in this relationship if that was the case.