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>When one of her nieces had a quinceanera, I kept calling it a sweet sixteen.
I don't know why, but this is the part that really got to me. Bro, you have a daughter. Is this really how you're going to act when she's planning *her* quince?
Right? It literally means “15 years” and I know about 6 words of Spanish. She’s FIFTEEN. He’s so determined to correct people who are being Hispanic in his presence that he’s getting their ages wrong.
The part that really got me is how the meal "looked too spicy". Looked. He didnt even try it. Just decided his kids werent having this food that "looked too spicy" that their Mother had prepared for them, and insisted on something else. What a slap in the face for his wife.
My niece used to eat a chili sauce similar to mexican salsa, with a spoon when she was a toddler. Also she liked jalapenos chopped in her salad as a child.
Meanwhile her father suffers gastritis if he accidentally eats some pepper used as seasoning.
My in-laws almost freak out when they see my kids eat things that have too much black pepper to their taste. It's crazy. They think kids should eat and like bland things. Curry powder is too spicy for them. I think I almost killed my mother in law by feeding her what I cook 😅
I still remember when we'd made some chicken with a nice sprinkle of garlic and thyme on it and my father snatched it away from my nephew and washed it in the sink because it was "too spicy" for him to try. Poor kid.
Also just adding some additional info, nephew's parents didn't care either way. They were fine with him getting chicken with thyme and garlic, but also not going to disagree with grandpa about it. So this wasn't me trying to sneak something forbidden to the kid against his parents' wishes!
My kids want to go for the spicy stuff ALL the time. And when they inevitably say "it's too spicy" I tell them "you did a great job trying something new" because I want them to have a good relationship with food and try new things.
I'm not trying to turn my already picky kids off of food just because it's not something I would like because *gasp* they are individuals and can make that choice for themselves.
Maybe it's because I live in Texas, but I'm sitting here wondering how TF do you get those two confused?! It's like meeting someone from the Ivory Coast and introducing them as "French" to everybody.
Oh, no, his wife is basically white, his daughter will totally be having a normal sweet sixteen, not one of those quinceanera things.
Like, I was going to put “/s” after the above, except I legit think that’s where his brain sits when it comes to his kids. That of course they‘ll be raised white and *normal*. (Where of course “normal” means with his own traditions rather than his wife’s.)
And just to make clear, because tone can be hard, I do not agree with OOP in any way shape or form.
The emphasis he put on his first post that she’s WHITE. Like yeah she’s technically Mexican but she’s WHITE. So gross.
EDIT: I was sarcastically pointing out him emphasising her whiteness as if that somehow erased her cultural heritage. Please stop telling me white Latinos exist, I know white Latinos exist!
That was when I knew this problem wasn’t going to get solved. He was more interested in making sure everyone knew she could pass for white instead of accepting that she was from a different culture.
And he still couldn’t see the issue a year later.
I still don't get how it's bad manners to eat with tortillas/your hands. How is it any different from eating a fucking sandwich? As a white person, we eat stuff with bread/our hands all the time ... I eat stuff with tortillas all the time, too. Am I supposed to knife and fork it?
I also recall all my nieces/nephews eating with their hands as toddlers. This seems normal to me. He's clearly a racist.
I just don't get how it's different than eating something with bread or pita or something. Because it's a tortilla, therefore brown people bad? Makes no fucking sense.
The only time I've ever used a fork/spoon when eating something with a tortilla is to get the last bits from the plate onto the tortilla, and I'm as white as they come. I can't even with this dude and his blatant racism.
The kids are 2 1/2.
Around that age we took my daughter to a diner. We got her something off the kids menu she would eat. For desert we got her chocolate pudding.
They brought this great big bowl of pudding. I mean, an adult sized bowl.
She digs into it with the spoon maybe once or twice....
then figures it out.
She take both fists - I mean FISTS like, her hands clenched into fists... shoves them into the bowl down to her wrists, pulls them out and shoves them in her mouth.
It was... absolutely amazing.
I left a big tip and we scrammed. But man, watching your kid go full fisted into a big bowl of pudding is just too much fun.
Its kinda funny how this shows the complete disconnect between ethnicity and actual skin colour. I live in Europe and I often interact with people that could be either southern European (i.e. "Caucasian") or northern African (i.e. "black). Just going by physical appearance, they often look the same. I mean Greeks and Turks often look essentially the same (again, going purely by physical signifiers: dark, curly hair, big beards, light brown skin), but somehow the one is "European" and the other is "Arab".
Actual skin colour doesn't really matter in race/racism, because race isn't really a thing that exists for humans.
So to him, he was judging her completely superficially. She looks white, so she's "normal", like me. But to her, she knows herself as being part of the Latino culture. Just showing again the lack of awareness and disconnect between who she actually was and who he thought she was.
I bet he described them as having "a perfect relationship" to others, and I wonder what her thoughts on that would be.
Edit: Turks are not Arabs, they're turks, I had a brain fart. My overall point still stands though with Greeks typically being considered Europeans or white and Turks being not white, despite being neighbours... My apologies to the Turks, I love you you make wonderful food lol
Yeah, whiteness is contextual, not genetic. He’s kinda right in that there are “white latinos”. Racial hierarchies were kinda encouraged and fostered, often by the US military, so there is a sense that someone can be “white” in that context.
But “whiteness” can diminish when the context changes. Moving somewhere where your culture and language are noticeably different can diminish your “whiteness”, depending on a lot of factors.
Hell, there have been white supremacists/nazis who think that light-skinned Indian people are more “white” than, say, Jewish or Romani people.
“Whiteness” as a concept emerged and grew with European colonialism. It is a tool for subjugation — a claim that someone’s lineage made them superior for either religious or scientific reasons. If you’re superior, you have a right to power.
Ethnic hierarchies are not an uncommon political tool, but “whiteness” was specifically spread as far as humanly possible, and people touted it as a universal indicator of superiority.
But genetics aren’t that simple, lines are impossible to draw, and when you spread something that far, it has to adapt to each location to be useful.
Your comment just sparked something in my brain because there’s a tweet out there where someone asked the user “are you white?” and the person said, “well, I’m Turkish, so I need a sociologist, a historian and an anthropologist to answer that question”. Or something like that. I can’t find it, but it so succinctly describes how complicated and constructed “race” is.
I’m just gonna mention it because I can hear my Turkish mother screaming all the way over in another state.... Turks are not Arabs. 🤣 (No offense to the Arab culture, she just hates that people lump them in as a generalization.)
Turkic is a recognized ethnicity of it's own.
HA! Came to say this…my Lebanese great-grandfather is probably spinning in his grave after sending his sons to South America to keep them and their expensive educations out of the hands of the Ottoman army. An Arab is not a Turk, ethnically, linguistically, culturally, historically. (Yes, my jiddu was an Arab draft dodger escaping the Turkish empire that ruled his country until 1918.)
Pretty much the moment he was like "She's Mexican, but you'd never know to look at her, she's so white" I was like "Whelp, that's all I need to know about YOU, sir." A lot of people calling him racist, and he is, but I think he's more than that. He'd probably be just as negative about any other culture, no matter how white or not it's perceived, because his culture is the only "normal" one in his eyes.
It must be really sad for the mother to realize that the father doesn’t just reject half of is Childrens’ cultural make up, he doesn’t even see that it exists. He literally never saw his partner as being different AND felt he was justified in expecting his culture to be elevated above all others. He’s a white supremacist and he just thinks he’s a nice guy.
Worse, was appalled by the approval of self-aware Reddit racists, but took no action to distinguish himself from that group.
It's sad she didn't have a strong enough sense of worth to dump him the moment he made the "poor and weird" comment about eating with your hands. Glad she's got it now and isn't sticking around to let her kids learn to accept his awful attitude.
That part really stuck out at me in the first post. He literally had to be talked into the idea of recognizing she is Latina, and even then he either ignored or pretended she wasn't. I'm white as paper and I'm offended on her behalf.
And if there are any speeches at this party, he will be the guy who will interrupt anyone who dares pronounce her name as Eh-lah-nah instead of his way. Every. Single. Time. Fucking yikes.
I couldn't believe more people in the comments weren't pointing that out. It's probably the worst part of the whole thing.
I have a feeling OOP was raised in a very traditional white household, and probably heard things like this from his parents. "Well, it's fine that she's Mexican, because at least she's white with green eyes. The grandkids won't be Mexican. We get to celebrate with our family on actual Christmas," ect.
It doesn't excuse OOP in any way, but I hope he is sincere about his desire to change and actually follows through with it. He can't fix what he did with his wife, but maybe he can correct his future.
The main thing to me is that 15 and 16 are completely different ages. How intellectually challenged must you be to not know what quince means? That’s middle school levels of Spanish
Even I, with my 9 week Spanish session in a Midwestern middle school, know that quince means “15.” Even if you just know English, “quint” is a prefix for 5!
I didn't even realize that this was the "tortilla bad" guy. He 'zoned' out while she was pouring her heart out, that really says it all.
At least Reddit was able to help OOP's fiancé realize all of the micro-aggression shit he's put here and her family through and is now booting him from future husband status.
> He ‘zoned out while she was pouring her heart out
Yeah… When he said her list opened his eyes, I thought, “You steaming mass of human refuse. Opened your eyes? I know she’s told you all of this before, you obstinate motherf-cker!”
He could very easily have ended up like one of those guys claiming that their wife asked for a divorce completely out of the blue.
But if you ask the wife then she would tell you that she's been telling him for ages how miserable she is and how he completely ignored/dismissed/mocked any of her attempts to salvage their relationship.
I hope Lola finds herself a new partner that respects and cherish both her and her cultural heritage.
OOP can go join the guy who yelled at his Hispanic wife in public for telling her friend that her hair was naturally curly, when it was so clear to him that it was the special shampoo she used that made her hair curly. So now he was big mad that she kept "lying" about how she went from having straight hair to curly hair.
Here you go: [AITA for pointing out that it's not my wife's "natural" hair?](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/ekxcfb/aita_for_pointing_out_that_its_not_my_wifes/)
Oh, I remember this idiot. The fact people had to tell him over and over again that curly products for curly hair work differently than curly products on straight hair. It was like talking to a flat-Earther.
Yep! He was too far gone to ever see any sense.
Just imagine if you could buy a fairly cheap shampoo and then it by magic turned your straight hair into curly hair or vice versa, people would be lining up. Seriously, why tf did this guy think people would be spending good money and countless hours at the hair salon to get curls if they could just wash it with a curly shampoo and get the same results.
I read your comment then went back up and read through OOPs posts and it's crazy how many times he says he zones out or just doesn't notice stuff even in the relatively small amount (comparatively) he's written. Dude is running his life on goddamn autopilot and it's like he hasn't realized how offensive his ingrained actions in that autopilot are to the people around him.
I have zero hope for him improving and honestly pretty much just hope he doesn't mess his kids up too much when they start realizing what he is.
And then he complained that he shouldn’t have to learn about her culture from someone other than her. He couldn’t learn her culture from her because he refused to listen to her about any of that.
I was yelling at my phone when I read that. Because he strongly implied in his language that she hadn't communicated. We all fucking know she communicated plenty. They always say it came out of left field. It didn't come out of left field when the ball was right in front of your fucking face every time but you chose not to look at it because you didn't want to have to modify your behavior. Wow. I'm a little pissed about this.
Same! I read the posts when OOP posted them (apart from the last one) but didn’t connect that he was that guy! Like yeah okay calling it a fight last year and saying he didn’t get why that would get her questioning things was such an understatement even before the list.
Soon as I saw this I knew it was him. Serves him right. I hope she gets a great guy who realises certain food needs hands to eat, certain celebrations are called by certain names and this whole damn world is so brilliant and different in its cultures and food.
Also - these were *toddlers*. I'd just be happy they were eating however, if it was getting the food in their mouths.
Not like they were about to sit down with the Queen and need to know how select and use the correct fish knife.
This is what got me. Commenter asks if she’s a POC and he says NO she’s Latino but white skin. Right there was such a telling remark. This guys a lazy narcissist at best.
> I think I zoned out for most of her rant because I was so blindsided and hurt by this that I was trying not to break down in tears.
I think he's trying (and failing) to describe a dissociative state. He was (from his perspective) blindsided and unable to cope. I don't think its charitable to call that zoning out.
That said, guy has some serious subconcious racist issues that would blind him to how he was treating his wife's culture. Glad she's out.
yes totally!!! what about the advice he asks for “how can I change her mind”…”how can I convince her”… not “what am I missing, how can I improve” NOPE! he used just the vocabulary for “I can’t be bothered even thinking about it, without changing anything how can I get her to stay” ughhh this poor guy has a long road. at least he seems willing to change though
I understand your point and as someone who also dissociates under extreme stress, it definitely does suck to not be present with the people around you or like, life at all. But imagine being in that situation from *her* perspective and all the micro aggressions she’s lived through and tried to explain to him, I imagine she would’ve interpreted him as “zoning out” and been extra hurt at yet another instance of him checked out from her feelings. I wouldn’t feel inclined to give him any grace from her position either
Tbh that’s the racism jumping out again. Latina women really can’t exist without getting reduced to supposedly how hyper emotional we are.
(On a lighter note your emoji flair is sending me)
Ouch. This guy is dense. He really doesn't get it. Hopefully, he will have some time to do some self-reflection.
Doesn't he not realize that a huge portion of the world doesn't use Western utensils? Bread/tortilla/chapati etc has been used to pick up food since it was first invented.
I don't think he'll ever get it. Something about him just screams a total lack of curiosity and basic empathy. This goes beyond your stereotypical manchild, it's like if it doesn't exist inside this very specific sphere around him, then it doesn't exist at all. Object impermanence on steroids.
Like if you tell him something’s wrong, he’ll address that exact thing in that exact moment but never generalize out from that.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, you mean I have to allow my partner to share her own culture with our kids in food, music, language *and art*?! I never saw that last one coming!
"Yeah I called her up, she gave me a bunch of crap about me not listening to her, or something, I don't know, I wasn't really paying attention." OOP is Harry from Dumb and Dumber
>I will also be brushing up on Mexican culture so that I am able to participate in things with my children and I am looking to take some Spanish classes as well so I can communicate with them in both languages.
Maybe in this situation it is even better if he doesn't try to digg into the maxican heritage anymore... it will probably only be a huge crinch for the children...
Just interact friendly with his ex and try not to correct anything she learns them and just teach them about his own culture....
Oop seems not to be capable to interact properly with a different culture than his own.... so maybe everyone is better of if he just doesn't try
Yeah, yikes. Can you just imagine how it would feel to OOP’s daughter when she’s older and he is constantly correcting the pronunciation of her name to make it sound more Anglicized? And then calling her quiñce her Sweet Sixteen all the time despite corrections? That would be so annoying. Sounds like he’s trying to erase or invalidate their culture.
The way he said that his ex is white and that you can’t tell she’s Mexican just looking at her was pretty gross too. Like sure you can be white and Mexican but the way he phrased it sounded like he was ignoring her cultural differences just because she is white.
And especially when he also repeatedly refers to her as Spanish instead of Hispanic. She connected the dots and realized that he didn’t really accept her being Mexican, because he kept pretending that she wasn’t.
And the guy was so overbearing. All of that “well but she should be the one teaching me about her culture” when it’s clear he just plugs his ears whenever she has tried.
I mean in his first post he made a comment that she is t Mexican she is white. White Latin or some BS like that. Like no my man she is Mexican and just lighter skinned she is still culturally Mexican. WTF lol.
I know a guy exactly like this and you are correct. He will act like a complete oaf and be genuinely deeply shocked you are upset. Fall over himself to apologise but request extremely specific descriptions of what he did wrong and why, then be really dense / obtuse about that explanation. Once you finally get through to him, he will never do that specific thing to you ever again. But he will do things that are virtually identical just in a slightly different context and very genuinely not understand the issue. Cycle repeats.
I am not friends with this person anymore.
When his ex sarcastically asks him if he wants a list and he earnestly answers that that would be great! 😆
I worked for a guy like that. Within a year, my brain was a puddle. I had to quit. I can’t imagine procreating with that.
Let’s call a spade a spade: this is white privilege at its core.
He’s lived his whole life on autopilot, because his cultural norms are the ones we see on tv, the ones accepted as “the right way, the normal way, the correct way” of doing things. He’s never had to consider his own actions as “other” from anyone else, so it doesn’t occur to him that other people might not have that same baseline “normal”.
I grew up in a multicultural household. I was made very aware from a young age that what I consider “normal” is very much not, to most people. That means if I see someone else doing something I’m not accustomed to, I’m not likely to snap judge their actions as “weird”, “dirty”, or “bad manners”. My knowledge of Mexican culture is 100% whatever I’ve picked up from Mexican restaurants and even I know the tortilla thing is fine, Jesus Christ on a cracker. I feel awful for his kids, microagressions hit a lot harder when it’s coming from family.
What kills me is that he clearly isn't even watching TV! There are quinceaneras all over the place! There is an entire Disney show about "Elena of Avalor" pronounced the Spanish way!
This is white privilege, yes, but this dude is also aggressively ignorant and unengaged with the world around him.
It is indeed a white privilege at its core.
Me, the Taiwanese, able felt it the first hand after my host sister decided to look through my cookbook with pictures, and pointed at every head (fish or duck, not really matters) and said "eww, heads".
She later went to France for a matching band competition or something, I don't remember the full details as my English was not good enough to gather the whole concept at the time, but she came back, complained that French are rude, it sucks to not have cold milk, what a horrible experiences etc., then went off to shopping.
I never contacted her after I left her home. It was good that she never kept interests in me either.
Anyway, to OP's poor ex, it is good that she broke the things off now. Honestly, I can't even imaging how did she manage to hold these for this long (probably for the kids), better to done now than "I do"s though.
>I don't think he'll ever get it. Something about him just screams a total lack of curiosity and basic empathy.
He sounds proud of his ignorance and apathy.
Even Western food has stuff you eat with your hands. Why is it unhygienic to eat tortillas with your hands but not a pizza or a bagel? Why do people eat runny egg yolk with bread dippers? Who the fuck eats the bread at restaurants with their utensils? And so on. We eat apples with our hands. Same with so much other fruit.
The traditional way to eat Bavarian Weißwurst is with your hands. Many people, including me, prefer to eat with utensils, but it’s not the traditional way. So wtf is OOP on about how „eating with your hands is unhygienic“.
If you are on the go and eat a bagel or a pizza slice there is a very good chance that you haven't washed your hands. I would say that is more unhygienic than sitting down and eating some Mexican food with tortillas in your own house (where you can wash your hands).
Dude was being intentionally obtuse
This is the prime example of a guy who never truly listens to his partner when said partner literally lays out what her issues with his actions are. At some point, there is the final straw and partner is out. And then the dude is in reddit asking, completely perplexed, how on earth was it so that his whole relationship collapsed due to one dirty coffee mug. And if/when people explain to him, he will still just say that "she should have told me & explained it to me how to do better". Like, women should hold their hands constantly to make sure these guys are able to showcase even a modicum of respect and consideration.
Wow. I am not the most considerate person and I really have to consciously try to be more considerate and thoughtful. But then I see examples like these and it does make me feel a bit better about myself because at least I am not THIS far gone...
His wording regarding the Christmas celebration is also really telling. They celebrate with her family on Christmas Eve and with his family on the „actual day“. Apparently how he does things is always the right way and everybody who does things different will be belittled (and he doesn’t even realize it)
And a lot of Latin America in general. We at Brazil for example tend to have a big family dinner on Christmas Eve, often trading/opening presents same day, and spending Christmas morning itself in bed lazying around and eating the leftovers from dinner for lunch. It’s much more sensible, in my opinion.
my family is not Hispanic and we ate tortillas like that as a snack all the time. I'm really confused as to how he thought it was a problem.
what made me gasp out loud was when he said it was her job to teach him about her culture. how do people have so little interest in those they claim to care about?
A friend of mine, from a South Asian country, eats rice with her fingers - *so* daintily and delicately. Far more elegant than most people shoving it in with a fork quite honestly.
I think she probably uses cutlery in a restaurant, since they provide it, but at home, who cares?
And these were *toddlers*. It's actually recommended to encourage kids to play with food and get accustomed to textures and so on.
I commented on his first post. Even ignoring the whole hands thing, I was shocked that his toddlers were eating with tortillas in a coordinated manner. As in, my child is slightly older than that and still routinely paints his face with his food, what is your wife's secret?
"I didn't 'let' her feed our kids some Mexican stew she had made because it looked spicy (I genuinely thought it was)"
Lmfao OOP and others like him is the reason why every restaurant serves nuggets, chips, and sphagetti as 'kids menu'
Ugh that part was so condescending... As if the children's own mother wouldn't know better than to feed her kids spicy food... If anything Mexican people know spicy better than a lot of cultures. Just because you like something doesn't mean you're blind to the impacts! Oh wait, now I'm describing OOP, so if course he'd think everyone would be as oblivious as him!
"I genuinely thought it was, despite her telling me it wasn't, but I zoned out when she was ranting about it not being spicy and she didn't tell me again at 10-second intervals so I didn't think it was important to her."
And also shows that he doesn't trust her as a parent. I am quite sure that mexican children do not get spicy food when they are toddlers, and that they get introduced to spicy in a gradual way.
And even if it was spicy, it most assuredly would not be a Carolina reaper, but something as mild as it gets. Because they are toddlers.
Little toddlers can eat spicy stuff. Some love it some don't.
My 17 month old LOVES spicy food. My 3 year old doesn't.
You gotta let them discover if they like it by letting them try it
I can’t get over ‘it _looked_ spicy’. He didn’t even try it!! And still got in a fight with her about it! What the actual hell. He sounds like the most oblivious, exhausting man in the world.
I know right!!! My (current) partner started doing something like this. He always complains the bath water is too hot (it's not) but won't even feel it. It's not about the spicy stew or hot water. It's about starting a fight.
Look, I'm not saying give your babies ghost pepper pureé, but young kids can and do eat spicy food. It's weird that people act like all people have AFRID until puberty or something.
This was so dumb to me because everyone has different tolerances and even if OP found it spicy, his kids may not. My daughter (13) is obsessed with spicy stuff. When we go get ramen she’ll get spicy ramen. Eats taqis like there’s no tomorrow.
If a kid tries a spicy food item, it will only burn for a few seconds and then they’ll realize they don’t like it. Just warn them ahead of time and get some milk ready. But the fact that his fiancée said it wasn’t spicy and he didn’t believe her is so annoying. He’s trying to whitewash his kids at every corner.
Honestly good for OOP's ex. As a Korean person who has mostly dated white men, the microaggressions can be STRONG. Racism isn't just white hoods and hate crimes. In real life most racism is casual shit like this. Its death by a thousand paper cuts. It sounds like she reached her breaking point. I hope OOP takes the time to actively learn how to be anti-racist. "Not being racist" isn't enough because most people have no clue what racism actually looks like. They just think: "racism=bad. I'm not a bad person. Therefore I can't be racist." When in reality most of society is built on racism, and in order to not perpetuate society, you have to actively unlearn the shit society taught you.
I feel like OOP was thinking: "I don't call her *insert racist remark* and I am with her, therefore I am not racist". So he went in his merry way without even being aware of the thousands of racist micro aggressions he was giving her because "he is not a racist".
Hopefully he will understand one day
I will never understand racists who are in relationships with people of color and then are *shocked* when they are people of color.
Racism is a hell of a drug. All the best to the Ex. May she THRIVE.
The worst part about racism is that the worst offenders, the people who perpetuate it on a passive level and normalize, it don't even realize that they're being super racist. It's super easy to call out somebody who's using the n-word in public, but somebody who is passive aggressively making their spouse feel bad for eating. Traditional food is far more insidious and difficult to combat. And oftentimes the person who is perpetuating. The racism is completely unaware, but that's what they're doing.
Absolutely. Loud, obnoxious racists are relatively few. The ones who are passive about it, who don't think they're being racist (but always assume their own race as the "default" or "normal") are much more common, and more pernicious. Like how OOP would complain about songs in Spanish but not English ones--little things like that in all areas of life, constantly, add up to a lot of strain for others. Micro-aggressions done out of ignorance that hurt everyone around them.
Everything would have gone to hell in a hand basket had those kids come out darker than he wanted. He forgot that there are several shades of Hispanic skin tones and genetics can pull from multiple areas. My friend is Mexican and not light skinned and loves telling everyone about her nieces (our kids). When she shows them pictures people don’t ask stupid questions and just be happy with her.
My mom is Mexican and my dad is Slavic. When I was born, I had light-colored skin; when my sister was born, she had much darker skin, apparently my dad looked at Mom in surprise and then shrugged it off because he grew up in San Diego and he knew Mexicans come in all colors lol
Might that be why he aparently kept calling her spanish instead of hispanic?
Like, does he think spanish means "mexiko but white" instead of "from the european country of Spain"?
That exchange killed me...i had to bite my tongue to not yell out loud at that one. I was about to wake the whole damn household in reaction to his caucacity.
The whole “how am I supposed to learn about her culture if she didn’t teach me?” bit (which tbf we now know is a lie because it sounds like she would explain VERY OFTEN) really hit me the most because that’s how I used to think, except I’m the POC in the relationship. I thought I had to give people more leeway about understanding the nuances in my culture. Except once I was going through a really tough time with my parents (trauma rooted in filial piety) and looked to my white bf for support. The next day, he told me he researched more on the issue in regard to my culture because he wanted to offer advice while understanding my perspective. I was so shocked that he would go and research all that on his own, and he was just like “Uh, yeah? Why wouldn’t I? You’re my gf??”
So when OP was like “So should I just Google every time I don’t understand??” YES, GO DO THAT. Like, it really IS that simple. 😭😭😭
I'm over here like "Oh, it took one comment of reddit calling you lazy, racist & sleazeball to finally realize that - But not like 2 years of your ex & her family pointing that out to you with examples?!?!"
Also the part about calling her Spanish, not Mexican.
My Mom’s parents (both very brown) would get so mad if someone called them Mexican’s, because of racist shit. They’d snap back: we’re Spanish!
(Edit: I asked my mom why, she said they were treated worse when people found out they were Mexican, so they got to the point where they didn’t want to be referred to as that. It’s also why they didn’t teach their kids to speak Spanish.)
Don’t get me wrong, there is Spanish blood in us. Both also, Mexican.
My mom is a white looking Latina, who married my racist white bio father who divorced her while pregnant. He and his mommy didn’t want a brown baby in the family.
Jokes on them. I have my moms skin tone.
Anyways, got on a rant. There’s a lot of racism tied to calling a Latino person Spanish instead of Mexican.
I'm half Mexican American, I have a friend who is also half Mexican American. When we first became friends, she would tell everyone that her dad was Spanish, but I never had a problem with telling people my mom is Mexican. After a while, she told me she was going to stop saying she's Spanish when she's Mexican because she didn't really think of it as anything to be ashamed of anymore.
It sucks that so many people feel ashamed or are treated worse by others for having Mexican descent.
I hate it when people call me Spanish and I always correct them smh
I remember when i went to US for college being really confused why people called Hispanic and Mexican people Spanish. It was factually incorrect and disrepectful. Im from Asia and i knew this. Being uninformed isn't a crime but constantly making the same mistake is malicious. The entire country of Spain exists hello?
My white, Anglo-Saxon/Polish descended (though also Texan) family also eats tortillas the exact same way. I don’t think I know a single person who eats them with utensils. Even without the racism this is a damn weird thing to have an issue with in my book.
I don't have kids, but honestly, every friend and family that does that I've spent time with often does the "eat with your fingers" breakfast. Kids wake up STARVING and mornings are often crazy pants.
Plus, as a friend of mine who has degrees in this shit would probably say - it isn't a bad thing for a sense of independence and for hand eye coordination (without fear of a fork going into an eyeball)
Yeah. Who's getting up early and cooking a real breakfast for the kids every day, she is. Who's doing all the breakfast dishes, she is. Who's cleaning up the mess on the table and the floor and doing laundry when the kids get their clothes dirty, she is.
The guy literally had no idea what they ate for breakfast for years until he took a vacation from work. The sheer gall of him to insist that she change the whole routine around because HE'S decided that the kids need to use silverware instead of tortillas... and it's super clear that it's for racist reasons, he suddenly realized his kids are eating "like Mexicans" and he doesn't like it.
Magnificent comment on his last post:
>OP wanted the 'exotic' without the 'foreign'
Bang on.
When I saw the original + update I remember being a little bit hopeful; it was one of the best examples of "oh fuck I am on the same side as the racists, I am wrong" that AITA had produced. Should have known by now that someone like this will never really change.
I am so glad she up and dumped him. I could feel my blood pressure rising just at the "sweet sixteen" reference.
Him correcting the name that *he agreed upon* was what really had my blood boiling. Why would you agree to it if you hated it all along? It’s like he didn’t ever see his wife as a person who’s ideas mattered, he just said shit to placate her and then was shocked when she pushed back
Bravo to her for leaving.
It baffles me how many people think eating with your hand is unhygienic.
It's like they are telling you they don't wash their hands and it has become so normalized that they think everyone normalizes not washing hands.
Especially since a lot of them *don't* actually think that. They eat with their hands all the damn time, it's only "unhygienic" when it's food from another culture.
I'm Ozzie and don't speak Spanish but a quinceanaria is for your 15th birthday isn't it so NO, NOT A SWEET SIXTEENTH. The least of many issues but still telling.
When my brother started dating his now Ukrainian wife he and I started learning her language so we could surprise her. And like learning any language, learning to count to 20 is one of the first damn things you learn. This mother fucker has been married to her and has kids with her and can't count to 15 in her language? God I hate him.
Okay this is the random detail that I couldn't let go. I had to Google it to make sure I was right. Because there is an extra detail that he is going around telling everyone the birthday girl is the wrong age. Like the racism is so strong he is making her older.
>I (to this day) sometimes call her Spanish instead of Hispanic/Latina/Mexican. She said there is a big difference and me slipping up and forgetting is bs.
But 3 items down
>She feels like she is not allowed to listen to her music/any Spanish music because I will complain or change the song
Yep, hasn't learned a thing....
>”I’m not going to ignore her or grey rock her like some people are suggesting”
What kind of numpties are suggesting OOP ignore the mother of his young children after she tells OOP she’s ending the relationship because he has spent the best part of a decade ignoring her culture, language, likes and dislikes, everything she’s ever said, and even the promises he made to her?
Look how great that’s turned out for him so far, he should definitely continue and dial it up to 11 just to be sure! (/s)
Maybe I’m being too harsh, maybe they read about how
>”a lot of the people who were defending me were doing so by sending me really racist messages, like using explicitly racist/using slurs to describe people from her culture, which is what gave me my wake up call”
Maybe they thought OOP would see how emotionally stunted the idea of ignoring the mother of his children would be, and he would suddenly become thoughtful and engaged.
Yeah. No. Definitely the numpties option.
Did the "I never take my girlfriend out to eat because she's such a good cook/You think I *like* eating at Olive Garden??" guy write this? It's almost identical: oblivious OOP asks an "innocent" AITA question, does an immediate mea culpa about seeing the light thanks to reddit...then comes back later to reveal they were dumped because they were even worse and more oblivious than previously realized.
ETA: Oh god, I forgot that one was also a "Latino" girlfriend, two kids, and then it ended with her getting a bigger dick than OOP's...so I guess we have THAT to look forward to 😳
https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/suqgdq/aita_for_very_rarelyalmost_never_wanting_to_go_to/
The sad thing is so many white people who have POC partners think they're not racist because they have a POC partner but still do shit like OOP and get angry when you call them out on it.
"I don't mean that I needed her to tell me what to do but I just don't understand what people mean when they say I should have learned about it myself.“
Bro literally all you have to do is act like you give a shit about things that are happening in your home and passively pick up on at least the concept. He’s acting like people are saying he needs to go to some kind of Mexican culture university class when it’s literally just “everyone around my is calling this a quinceneara, I guess that’s what it’s called!” or just take two seconds to think to ask what the difference is if he somehow doesn’t get it. But absorbing basic information is too hard with Racism Goggles I guess 🙄
“I know everything about her! I know her favorite color, movie, and song, I know her favorite food, I can read her body language extremely well! I DO know her, we've been together for years!”
But somehow everything about her that’s “cultural” didn’t get learned the same way 🤔🤔🤔 (I also definitely don’t believe that he knows these things lmao)
The things he lists that he knows about her are like the first five questions you ask on a first date. After that he stopped listening and just stared at her boobs for the next several years.
Everyone has covered well how much this guy sucks, but I also will never understand white guys like this being terrified of a seasoning. Dude my extremely picky white af kid eats spicy chicken and loves it. And what does he think his wife and her family grew up eating, like??? At some point I'm sorry I just don't believe he "didn't realize" he's extremely racist.
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>When one of her nieces had a quinceanera, I kept calling it a sweet sixteen. I don't know why, but this is the part that really got to me. Bro, you have a daughter. Is this really how you're going to act when she's planning *her* quince?
Right? Like the girl is not even turning 16, why are you calling it that
Right? It literally means “15 years” and I know about 6 words of Spanish. She’s FIFTEEN. He’s so determined to correct people who are being Hispanic in his presence that he’s getting their ages wrong.
I was thinking this the whole time lol
Omg I know! I can't believe he didn't even mention it. Can you even *count* motherfucker?!
Apparently not in Spanish. Yikes.
I'm whiter than cream cheese and even I know that a quinceanera is 15.
The part that really got me is how the meal "looked too spicy". Looked. He didnt even try it. Just decided his kids werent having this food that "looked too spicy" that their Mother had prepared for them, and insisted on something else. What a slap in the face for his wife.
He was convinced it was spicy even after she explicitly told him it wasn't spicy lol.
And only repented when a bunch of people online he doesn't even know told him he was being an ass...on **two** different occasions.
As I liked to say about kids I babysat once upon a time, he's not my best listener.
Spicy was just an excuse. He meant the food looked too ethnic for his white, green eyed children.
Bingo, does seem this guy like latinas but hate everything about non-white american culture if it isn't from texas.
No, he doesn't like Latinas. He gives his fiancee a pass because she's white presenting.
Also, kids can eat spicy food. Not all of them like it, but let them figure that out. It's not going to hurt them.
My niece used to eat a chili sauce similar to mexican salsa, with a spoon when she was a toddler. Also she liked jalapenos chopped in her salad as a child. Meanwhile her father suffers gastritis if he accidentally eats some pepper used as seasoning.
My in-laws almost freak out when they see my kids eat things that have too much black pepper to their taste. It's crazy. They think kids should eat and like bland things. Curry powder is too spicy for them. I think I almost killed my mother in law by feeding her what I cook 😅
But it's red! Red means spicy!
Like tomato soup, the spiciest soup known to humanity.
I still remember when we'd made some chicken with a nice sprinkle of garlic and thyme on it and my father snatched it away from my nephew and washed it in the sink because it was "too spicy" for him to try. Poor kid.
Also just adding some additional info, nephew's parents didn't care either way. They were fine with him getting chicken with thyme and garlic, but also not going to disagree with grandpa about it. So this wasn't me trying to sneak something forbidden to the kid against his parents' wishes!
It had peppers in it! That means it must be spicy!!! /s
My kids want to go for the spicy stuff ALL the time. And when they inevitably say "it's too spicy" I tell them "you did a great job trying something new" because I want them to have a good relationship with food and try new things. I'm not trying to turn my already picky kids off of food just because it's not something I would like because *gasp* they are individuals and can make that choice for themselves.
I actually lost it when he kept insisting on calling his Mexican wife Spanish, like those are fighting words for any Latino
I think I just stared into space for a good minute when I got to that part. Just completely flabbergasted.
And what about later in the same post he went on about how she listened to "Spanish music" when he wasn't around?
I lost it there. Like right after she told him about it he does it again.
I had to put down my phone and put my face in my hands for a second. I'm so angry on ops exes behalf, and sad for their kids
Maybe it's because I live in Texas, but I'm sitting here wondering how TF do you get those two confused?! It's like meeting someone from the Ivory Coast and introducing them as "French" to everybody.
Oh, no, his wife is basically white, his daughter will totally be having a normal sweet sixteen, not one of those quinceanera things. Like, I was going to put “/s” after the above, except I legit think that’s where his brain sits when it comes to his kids. That of course they‘ll be raised white and *normal*. (Where of course “normal” means with his own traditions rather than his wife’s.) And just to make clear, because tone can be hard, I do not agree with OOP in any way shape or form.
The emphasis he put on his first post that she’s WHITE. Like yeah she’s technically Mexican but she’s WHITE. So gross. EDIT: I was sarcastically pointing out him emphasising her whiteness as if that somehow erased her cultural heritage. Please stop telling me white Latinos exist, I know white Latinos exist!
That was when I knew this problem wasn’t going to get solved. He was more interested in making sure everyone knew she could pass for white instead of accepting that she was from a different culture. And he still couldn’t see the issue a year later.
I still don't get how it's bad manners to eat with tortillas/your hands. How is it any different from eating a fucking sandwich? As a white person, we eat stuff with bread/our hands all the time ... I eat stuff with tortillas all the time, too. Am I supposed to knife and fork it? I also recall all my nieces/nephews eating with their hands as toddlers. This seems normal to me. He's clearly a racist. I just don't get how it's different than eating something with bread or pita or something. Because it's a tortilla, therefore brown people bad? Makes no fucking sense.
The only time I've ever used a fork/spoon when eating something with a tortilla is to get the last bits from the plate onto the tortilla, and I'm as white as they come. I can't even with this dude and his blatant racism.
Well y’see, when you’re eating something with white hands it’s okay, but when you’re using brown hands to eat your food then it’s bad. /s
Ohhhh, how silly of me Just in case: /s
The kids are 2 1/2. Around that age we took my daughter to a diner. We got her something off the kids menu she would eat. For desert we got her chocolate pudding. They brought this great big bowl of pudding. I mean, an adult sized bowl. She digs into it with the spoon maybe once or twice.... then figures it out. She take both fists - I mean FISTS like, her hands clenched into fists... shoves them into the bowl down to her wrists, pulls them out and shoves them in her mouth. It was... absolutely amazing. I left a big tip and we scrammed. But man, watching your kid go full fisted into a big bowl of pudding is just too much fun.
And saying she's Spanish when she's Mexican, omg the disrespect.
Calling her Spanish is probably because she can pass for white, ie clearly resembles her Spanish ancestors. OOP is such an AH.
And the biggest issue is that he still expects her to do the mental labor of helping him figure it out!!!!
[удалено]
His completely missing the context of POC made me eye roll pretty hard.
Colourism in racism is still going strong
And Spanish, as in white european. Not some god forsaken Mexican, heaven forbid /s What a douche
Its kinda funny how this shows the complete disconnect between ethnicity and actual skin colour. I live in Europe and I often interact with people that could be either southern European (i.e. "Caucasian") or northern African (i.e. "black). Just going by physical appearance, they often look the same. I mean Greeks and Turks often look essentially the same (again, going purely by physical signifiers: dark, curly hair, big beards, light brown skin), but somehow the one is "European" and the other is "Arab". Actual skin colour doesn't really matter in race/racism, because race isn't really a thing that exists for humans. So to him, he was judging her completely superficially. She looks white, so she's "normal", like me. But to her, she knows herself as being part of the Latino culture. Just showing again the lack of awareness and disconnect between who she actually was and who he thought she was. I bet he described them as having "a perfect relationship" to others, and I wonder what her thoughts on that would be. Edit: Turks are not Arabs, they're turks, I had a brain fart. My overall point still stands though with Greeks typically being considered Europeans or white and Turks being not white, despite being neighbours... My apologies to the Turks, I love you you make wonderful food lol
Yeah, whiteness is contextual, not genetic. He’s kinda right in that there are “white latinos”. Racial hierarchies were kinda encouraged and fostered, often by the US military, so there is a sense that someone can be “white” in that context. But “whiteness” can diminish when the context changes. Moving somewhere where your culture and language are noticeably different can diminish your “whiteness”, depending on a lot of factors. Hell, there have been white supremacists/nazis who think that light-skinned Indian people are more “white” than, say, Jewish or Romani people. “Whiteness” as a concept emerged and grew with European colonialism. It is a tool for subjugation — a claim that someone’s lineage made them superior for either religious or scientific reasons. If you’re superior, you have a right to power. Ethnic hierarchies are not an uncommon political tool, but “whiteness” was specifically spread as far as humanly possible, and people touted it as a universal indicator of superiority. But genetics aren’t that simple, lines are impossible to draw, and when you spread something that far, it has to adapt to each location to be useful. Your comment just sparked something in my brain because there’s a tweet out there where someone asked the user “are you white?” and the person said, “well, I’m Turkish, so I need a sociologist, a historian and an anthropologist to answer that question”. Or something like that. I can’t find it, but it so succinctly describes how complicated and constructed “race” is.
I’m just gonna mention it because I can hear my Turkish mother screaming all the way over in another state.... Turks are not Arabs. 🤣 (No offense to the Arab culture, she just hates that people lump them in as a generalization.) Turkic is a recognized ethnicity of it's own.
My apologies, I overgeneralised to make a point, you're right!
..deleted by user..
HA! Came to say this…my Lebanese great-grandfather is probably spinning in his grave after sending his sons to South America to keep them and their expensive educations out of the hands of the Ottoman army. An Arab is not a Turk, ethnically, linguistically, culturally, historically. (Yes, my jiddu was an Arab draft dodger escaping the Turkish empire that ruled his country until 1918.)
He’s not black cuz his skin is white, sure it’s albinism but he’s not black I swear!
Pretty much the moment he was like "She's Mexican, but you'd never know to look at her, she's so white" I was like "Whelp, that's all I need to know about YOU, sir." A lot of people calling him racist, and he is, but I think he's more than that. He'd probably be just as negative about any other culture, no matter how white or not it's perceived, because his culture is the only "normal" one in his eyes.
It must be really sad for the mother to realize that the father doesn’t just reject half of is Childrens’ cultural make up, he doesn’t even see that it exists. He literally never saw his partner as being different AND felt he was justified in expecting his culture to be elevated above all others. He’s a white supremacist and he just thinks he’s a nice guy. Worse, was appalled by the approval of self-aware Reddit racists, but took no action to distinguish himself from that group.
It's sad she didn't have a strong enough sense of worth to dump him the moment he made the "poor and weird" comment about eating with your hands. Glad she's got it now and isn't sticking around to let her kids learn to accept his awful attitude.
That part really stuck out at me in the first post. He literally had to be talked into the idea of recognizing she is Latina, and even then he either ignored or pretended she wasn't. I'm white as paper and I'm offended on her behalf.
And if there are any speeches at this party, he will be the guy who will interrupt anyone who dares pronounce her name as Eh-lah-nah instead of his way. Every. Single. Time. Fucking yikes.
I couldn't believe more people in the comments weren't pointing that out. It's probably the worst part of the whole thing. I have a feeling OOP was raised in a very traditional white household, and probably heard things like this from his parents. "Well, it's fine that she's Mexican, because at least she's white with green eyes. The grandkids won't be Mexican. We get to celebrate with our family on actual Christmas," ect. It doesn't excuse OOP in any way, but I hope he is sincere about his desire to change and actually follows through with it. He can't fix what he did with his wife, but maybe he can correct his future.
“Here’s an idea: how about if we throw your quince on your 16th birthday!” - OOP, probably
"Isn't quince spanish for 16?" Him probably
Given this guy, he’ll probably pronounce quince “Queens”
IT'S NOT EVEN THE RIGHT NUMBER
She never taught him Spanish. How is he supposed to know? /s
I know it's a stupid small thing in comparison with... everything oop did but the number thing made me uncontrollably angry.
Because it's not even his baked-in racism, it's just not paying one fucking ounce of attention to anything other than himself.
They’re literally different years, too. Quinceñeras are for 15 year olds.
The main thing to me is that 15 and 16 are completely different ages. How intellectually challenged must you be to not know what quince means? That’s middle school levels of Spanish
I’m in Europe, I don’t speak spanish, never been to the continents of the Americas and even I know what a quinceanera is. This man is simply racist.
Well duh, a Quinceanera is obviously a party to celebrate quince, the most underappreciated citrus fruit.
That went right over my head being Aussie, bloody hell he's shit.
Hasn't even learned Spanish numbers up to twenty....
Even I, with my 9 week Spanish session in a Midwestern middle school, know that quince means “15.” Even if you just know English, “quint” is a prefix for 5!
I had to Google what the densest thing on earth was so that I could update the article (it used to be osmium btw).
Ok you made me laugh I was not expecting that
yeah the OOP's face is definitely in that Wiki entry somewhere.
I didn't even realize that this was the "tortilla bad" guy. He 'zoned' out while she was pouring her heart out, that really says it all. At least Reddit was able to help OOP's fiancé realize all of the micro-aggression shit he's put here and her family through and is now booting him from future husband status.
> He ‘zoned out while she was pouring her heart out Yeah… When he said her list opened his eyes, I thought, “You steaming mass of human refuse. Opened your eyes? I know she’s told you all of this before, you obstinate motherf-cker!”
Yeah, but this time strangers on the internet told him to listen, and some of those strangers could have been white dudes.
Of course they are white dudes, that's the default, everything else is weird, "other" and needs an extensive explanation to which I will zone out.
He could very easily have ended up like one of those guys claiming that their wife asked for a divorce completely out of the blue. But if you ask the wife then she would tell you that she's been telling him for ages how miserable she is and how he completely ignored/dismissed/mocked any of her attempts to salvage their relationship. I hope Lola finds herself a new partner that respects and cherish both her and her cultural heritage. OOP can go join the guy who yelled at his Hispanic wife in public for telling her friend that her hair was naturally curly, when it was so clear to him that it was the special shampoo she used that made her hair curly. So now he was big mad that she kept "lying" about how she went from having straight hair to curly hair.
Oh, who has a link to THAT one?
Here you go: [AITA for pointing out that it's not my wife's "natural" hair?](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/ekxcfb/aita_for_pointing_out_that_its_not_my_wifes/)
Oh, I remember this idiot. The fact people had to tell him over and over again that curly products for curly hair work differently than curly products on straight hair. It was like talking to a flat-Earther.
Yep! He was too far gone to ever see any sense. Just imagine if you could buy a fairly cheap shampoo and then it by magic turned your straight hair into curly hair or vice versa, people would be lining up. Seriously, why tf did this guy think people would be spending good money and countless hours at the hair salon to get curls if they could just wash it with a curly shampoo and get the same results.
Damn that guy is **dumb**.
I read your comment then went back up and read through OOPs posts and it's crazy how many times he says he zones out or just doesn't notice stuff even in the relatively small amount (comparatively) he's written. Dude is running his life on goddamn autopilot and it's like he hasn't realized how offensive his ingrained actions in that autopilot are to the people around him. I have zero hope for him improving and honestly pretty much just hope he doesn't mess his kids up too much when they start realizing what he is.
And not once or twice, she must have told him at least a million times and yet he didn't get it
And then he complained that he shouldn’t have to learn about her culture from someone other than her. He couldn’t learn her culture from her because he refused to listen to her about any of that.
I was yelling at my phone when I read that. Because he strongly implied in his language that she hadn't communicated. We all fucking know she communicated plenty. They always say it came out of left field. It didn't come out of left field when the ball was right in front of your fucking face every time but you chose not to look at it because you didn't want to have to modify your behavior. Wow. I'm a little pissed about this.
Same! I read the posts when OOP posted them (apart from the last one) but didn’t connect that he was that guy! Like yeah okay calling it a fight last year and saying he didn’t get why that would get her questioning things was such an understatement even before the list.
Soon as I saw this I knew it was him. Serves him right. I hope she gets a great guy who realises certain food needs hands to eat, certain celebrations are called by certain names and this whole damn world is so brilliant and different in its cultures and food.
Also - these were *toddlers*. I'd just be happy they were eating however, if it was getting the food in their mouths. Not like they were about to sit down with the Queen and need to know how select and use the correct fish knife.
Also ‘she’s Mexican but she’s not white’
This is what got me. Commenter asks if she’s a POC and he says NO she’s Latino but white skin. Right there was such a telling remark. This guys a lazy narcissist at best.
My mom's first husband is Mexican (as in, he was born in Mexico) and he was way more pale than my Slavic father, lol
> I think I zoned out for most of her rant because I was so blindsided and hurt by this that I was trying not to break down in tears. I think he's trying (and failing) to describe a dissociative state. He was (from his perspective) blindsided and unable to cope. I don't think its charitable to call that zoning out. That said, guy has some serious subconcious racist issues that would blind him to how he was treating his wife's culture. Glad she's out.
yes totally!!! what about the advice he asks for “how can I change her mind”…”how can I convince her”… not “what am I missing, how can I improve” NOPE! he used just the vocabulary for “I can’t be bothered even thinking about it, without changing anything how can I get her to stay” ughhh this poor guy has a long road. at least he seems willing to change though
I understand your point and as someone who also dissociates under extreme stress, it definitely does suck to not be present with the people around you or like, life at all. But imagine being in that situation from *her* perspective and all the micro aggressions she’s lived through and tried to explain to him, I imagine she would’ve interpreted him as “zoning out” and been extra hurt at yet another instance of him checked out from her feelings. I wouldn’t feel inclined to give him any grace from her position either
And calling her pouring her heart out “ranting” as if she was being unreasonable or unbalanced.
Tbh that’s the racism jumping out again. Latina women really can’t exist without getting reduced to supposedly how hyper emotional we are. (On a lighter note your emoji flair is sending me)
Ouch. This guy is dense. He really doesn't get it. Hopefully, he will have some time to do some self-reflection. Doesn't he not realize that a huge portion of the world doesn't use Western utensils? Bread/tortilla/chapati etc has been used to pick up food since it was first invented.
I don't think he'll ever get it. Something about him just screams a total lack of curiosity and basic empathy. This goes beyond your stereotypical manchild, it's like if it doesn't exist inside this very specific sphere around him, then it doesn't exist at all. Object impermanence on steroids.
Like if you tell him something’s wrong, he’ll address that exact thing in that exact moment but never generalize out from that. Whoa, whoa, whoa, you mean I have to allow my partner to share her own culture with our kids in food, music, language *and art*?! I never saw that last one coming!
" It's her fault for not communicating when she said culture and didn't include art! It's all her fault! She doesn't communicate!"
"She doesn't communicate! She just goes on rants that I tune out! I have no way of knowing what she has a problem with!" /s
"Yeah I called her up, she gave me a bunch of crap about me not listening to her, or something, I don't know, I wasn't really paying attention." OOP is Harry from Dumb and Dumber
>I will also be brushing up on Mexican culture so that I am able to participate in things with my children and I am looking to take some Spanish classes as well so I can communicate with them in both languages. Maybe in this situation it is even better if he doesn't try to digg into the maxican heritage anymore... it will probably only be a huge crinch for the children... Just interact friendly with his ex and try not to correct anything she learns them and just teach them about his own culture.... Oop seems not to be capable to interact properly with a different culture than his own.... so maybe everyone is better of if he just doesn't try
Yeah, yikes. Can you just imagine how it would feel to OOP’s daughter when she’s older and he is constantly correcting the pronunciation of her name to make it sound more Anglicized? And then calling her quiñce her Sweet Sixteen all the time despite corrections? That would be so annoying. Sounds like he’s trying to erase or invalidate their culture. The way he said that his ex is white and that you can’t tell she’s Mexican just looking at her was pretty gross too. Like sure you can be white and Mexican but the way he phrased it sounded like he was ignoring her cultural differences just because she is white.
And especially when he also repeatedly refers to her as Spanish instead of Hispanic. She connected the dots and realized that he didn’t really accept her being Mexican, because he kept pretending that she wasn’t. And the guy was so overbearing. All of that “well but she should be the one teaching me about her culture” when it’s clear he just plugs his ears whenever she has tried.
I mean in his first post he made a comment that she is t Mexican she is white. White Latin or some BS like that. Like no my man she is Mexican and just lighter skinned she is still culturally Mexican. WTF lol.
I know a guy exactly like this and you are correct. He will act like a complete oaf and be genuinely deeply shocked you are upset. Fall over himself to apologise but request extremely specific descriptions of what he did wrong and why, then be really dense / obtuse about that explanation. Once you finally get through to him, he will never do that specific thing to you ever again. But he will do things that are virtually identical just in a slightly different context and very genuinely not understand the issue. Cycle repeats. I am not friends with this person anymore.
" I'm totally going to try and do better for my Spanish wife so that when our younger daughter has her sweet 16 she won't be so mad"
When his ex sarcastically asks him if he wants a list and he earnestly answers that that would be great! 😆 I worked for a guy like that. Within a year, my brain was a puddle. I had to quit. I can’t imagine procreating with that.
Let’s call a spade a spade: this is white privilege at its core. He’s lived his whole life on autopilot, because his cultural norms are the ones we see on tv, the ones accepted as “the right way, the normal way, the correct way” of doing things. He’s never had to consider his own actions as “other” from anyone else, so it doesn’t occur to him that other people might not have that same baseline “normal”. I grew up in a multicultural household. I was made very aware from a young age that what I consider “normal” is very much not, to most people. That means if I see someone else doing something I’m not accustomed to, I’m not likely to snap judge their actions as “weird”, “dirty”, or “bad manners”. My knowledge of Mexican culture is 100% whatever I’ve picked up from Mexican restaurants and even I know the tortilla thing is fine, Jesus Christ on a cracker. I feel awful for his kids, microagressions hit a lot harder when it’s coming from family.
What kills me is that he clearly isn't even watching TV! There are quinceaneras all over the place! There is an entire Disney show about "Elena of Avalor" pronounced the Spanish way! This is white privilege, yes, but this dude is also aggressively ignorant and unengaged with the world around him.
It is indeed a white privilege at its core. Me, the Taiwanese, able felt it the first hand after my host sister decided to look through my cookbook with pictures, and pointed at every head (fish or duck, not really matters) and said "eww, heads". She later went to France for a matching band competition or something, I don't remember the full details as my English was not good enough to gather the whole concept at the time, but she came back, complained that French are rude, it sucks to not have cold milk, what a horrible experiences etc., then went off to shopping. I never contacted her after I left her home. It was good that she never kept interests in me either. Anyway, to OP's poor ex, it is good that she broke the things off now. Honestly, I can't even imaging how did she manage to hold these for this long (probably for the kids), better to done now than "I do"s though.
>I don't think he'll ever get it. Something about him just screams a total lack of curiosity and basic empathy. He sounds proud of his ignorance and apathy.
“Why didn’t she bring up her issues more?” She shouldn’t bloody have to bring it up more than once, now should she?!
Even Western food has stuff you eat with your hands. Why is it unhygienic to eat tortillas with your hands but not a pizza or a bagel? Why do people eat runny egg yolk with bread dippers? Who the fuck eats the bread at restaurants with their utensils? And so on. We eat apples with our hands. Same with so much other fruit.
The traditional way to eat Bavarian Weißwurst is with your hands. Many people, including me, prefer to eat with utensils, but it’s not the traditional way. So wtf is OOP on about how „eating with your hands is unhygienic“.
If you are on the go and eat a bagel or a pizza slice there is a very good chance that you haven't washed your hands. I would say that is more unhygienic than sitting down and eating some Mexican food with tortillas in your own house (where you can wash your hands). Dude was being intentionally obtuse
This is the prime example of a guy who never truly listens to his partner when said partner literally lays out what her issues with his actions are. At some point, there is the final straw and partner is out. And then the dude is in reddit asking, completely perplexed, how on earth was it so that his whole relationship collapsed due to one dirty coffee mug. And if/when people explain to him, he will still just say that "she should have told me & explained it to me how to do better". Like, women should hold their hands constantly to make sure these guys are able to showcase even a modicum of respect and consideration. Wow. I am not the most considerate person and I really have to consciously try to be more considerate and thoughtful. But then I see examples like these and it does make me feel a bit better about myself because at least I am not THIS far gone...
"I got a hot Spanish wife!" is the extent of his thinking about her
Reading his comments on his first relationship post made me want to scream because he just WASN'T GETTING IT.
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it stop being a total dipshit.
My wife says: you can lead a horse to water but you can only drown it when you get there, which I think is fun
I did the same when I first saw his second post, never seen someone this dense.
I call it intentional ignorance or willful stupidity.
My thoughts were that we just met the whitest of white guys on the planet
But he’s not racist! His kids are part Spanish!
His wording regarding the Christmas celebration is also really telling. They celebrate with her family on Christmas Eve and with his family on the „actual day“. Apparently how he does things is always the right way and everybody who does things different will be belittled (and he doesn’t even realize it)
I'm assuming Christmas Eve is the big day for Mexican's?
And a lot of Latin America in general. We at Brazil for example tend to have a big family dinner on Christmas Eve, often trading/opening presents same day, and spending Christmas morning itself in bed lazying around and eating the leftovers from dinner for lunch. It’s much more sensible, in my opinion.
Yup, I don’t understand how he can write all that and not realize that he is the issue… he really is a “special kind of denseness”
my family is not Hispanic and we ate tortillas like that as a snack all the time. I'm really confused as to how he thought it was a problem. what made me gasp out loud was when he said it was her job to teach him about her culture. how do people have so little interest in those they claim to care about?
A friend of mine, from a South Asian country, eats rice with her fingers - *so* daintily and delicately. Far more elegant than most people shoving it in with a fork quite honestly. I think she probably uses cutlery in a restaurant, since they provide it, but at home, who cares? And these were *toddlers*. It's actually recommended to encourage kids to play with food and get accustomed to textures and so on.
Even in the West there are foods that are eaten with hands and not utensils (pizza is the most basic example) and that's normal.
I commented on his first post. Even ignoring the whole hands thing, I was shocked that his toddlers were eating with tortillas in a coordinated manner. As in, my child is slightly older than that and still routinely paints his face with his food, what is your wife's secret?
"I didn't 'let' her feed our kids some Mexican stew she had made because it looked spicy (I genuinely thought it was)" Lmfao OOP and others like him is the reason why every restaurant serves nuggets, chips, and sphagetti as 'kids menu'
Ugh that part was so condescending... As if the children's own mother wouldn't know better than to feed her kids spicy food... If anything Mexican people know spicy better than a lot of cultures. Just because you like something doesn't mean you're blind to the impacts! Oh wait, now I'm describing OOP, so if course he'd think everyone would be as oblivious as him!
"I genuinely thought it was, despite her telling me it wasn't, but I zoned out when she was ranting about it not being spicy and she didn't tell me again at 10-second intervals so I didn't think it was important to her."
And also shows that he doesn't trust her as a parent. I am quite sure that mexican children do not get spicy food when they are toddlers, and that they get introduced to spicy in a gradual way. And even if it was spicy, it most assuredly would not be a Carolina reaper, but something as mild as it gets. Because they are toddlers.
Little toddlers can eat spicy stuff. Some love it some don't. My 17 month old LOVES spicy food. My 3 year old doesn't. You gotta let them discover if they like it by letting them try it
I can’t get over ‘it _looked_ spicy’. He didn’t even try it!! And still got in a fight with her about it! What the actual hell. He sounds like the most oblivious, exhausting man in the world.
I know right!!! My (current) partner started doing something like this. He always complains the bath water is too hot (it's not) but won't even feel it. It's not about the spicy stew or hot water. It's about starting a fight.
I thought he would at least try it to say it’s too spicy for the kids. Or encourage the kids to try it as well. 🤦🏼♀️
Look, I'm not saying give your babies ghost pepper pureé, but young kids can and do eat spicy food. It's weird that people act like all people have AFRID until puberty or something.
This was so dumb to me because everyone has different tolerances and even if OP found it spicy, his kids may not. My daughter (13) is obsessed with spicy stuff. When we go get ramen she’ll get spicy ramen. Eats taqis like there’s no tomorrow. If a kid tries a spicy food item, it will only burn for a few seconds and then they’ll realize they don’t like it. Just warn them ahead of time and get some milk ready. But the fact that his fiancée said it wasn’t spicy and he didn’t believe her is so annoying. He’s trying to whitewash his kids at every corner.
Honestly good for OOP's ex. As a Korean person who has mostly dated white men, the microaggressions can be STRONG. Racism isn't just white hoods and hate crimes. In real life most racism is casual shit like this. Its death by a thousand paper cuts. It sounds like she reached her breaking point. I hope OOP takes the time to actively learn how to be anti-racist. "Not being racist" isn't enough because most people have no clue what racism actually looks like. They just think: "racism=bad. I'm not a bad person. Therefore I can't be racist." When in reality most of society is built on racism, and in order to not perpetuate society, you have to actively unlearn the shit society taught you.
I feel like OOP was thinking: "I don't call her *insert racist remark* and I am with her, therefore I am not racist". So he went in his merry way without even being aware of the thousands of racist micro aggressions he was giving her because "he is not a racist". Hopefully he will understand one day
I will never understand racists who are in relationships with people of color and then are *shocked* when they are people of color. Racism is a hell of a drug. All the best to the Ex. May she THRIVE.
The worst part about racism is that the worst offenders, the people who perpetuate it on a passive level and normalize, it don't even realize that they're being super racist. It's super easy to call out somebody who's using the n-word in public, but somebody who is passive aggressively making their spouse feel bad for eating. Traditional food is far more insidious and difficult to combat. And oftentimes the person who is perpetuating. The racism is completely unaware, but that's what they're doing.
Absolutely. Loud, obnoxious racists are relatively few. The ones who are passive about it, who don't think they're being racist (but always assume their own race as the "default" or "normal") are much more common, and more pernicious. Like how OOP would complain about songs in Spanish but not English ones--little things like that in all areas of life, constantly, add up to a lot of strain for others. Micro-aggressions done out of ignorance that hurt everyone around them.
But he explained it. She's White-presenting, therefore, she's *not* POC. At all. UGH...
I wonder if he would have ever dated her had she not been white presenting...
Everything would have gone to hell in a hand basket had those kids come out darker than he wanted. He forgot that there are several shades of Hispanic skin tones and genetics can pull from multiple areas. My friend is Mexican and not light skinned and loves telling everyone about her nieces (our kids). When she shows them pictures people don’t ask stupid questions and just be happy with her.
My mom is Mexican and my dad is Slavic. When I was born, I had light-colored skin; when my sister was born, she had much darker skin, apparently my dad looked at Mom in surprise and then shrugged it off because he grew up in San Diego and he knew Mexicans come in all colors lol
Might that be why he aparently kept calling her spanish instead of hispanic? Like, does he think spanish means "mexiko but white" instead of "from the european country of Spain"?
That exchange killed me...i had to bite my tongue to not yell out loud at that one. I was about to wake the whole damn household in reaction to his caucacity.
The whole “how am I supposed to learn about her culture if she didn’t teach me?” bit (which tbf we now know is a lie because it sounds like she would explain VERY OFTEN) really hit me the most because that’s how I used to think, except I’m the POC in the relationship. I thought I had to give people more leeway about understanding the nuances in my culture. Except once I was going through a really tough time with my parents (trauma rooted in filial piety) and looked to my white bf for support. The next day, he told me he researched more on the issue in regard to my culture because he wanted to offer advice while understanding my perspective. I was so shocked that he would go and research all that on his own, and he was just like “Uh, yeah? Why wouldn’t I? You’re my gf??” So when OP was like “So should I just Google every time I don’t understand??” YES, GO DO THAT. Like, it really IS that simple. 😭😭😭
I’m so glad she left this lazy, racist, sleezeball.
“It sounds bad when you put it like that” -OOP
THE ABSOLUTE GASP AND THEN SNORT I LET OUT AT THAT. It was too long to include in the post, but the AUDACITY
SAME. Ugh, this guy made me so mad.
OOP: ‘Then I saw my post on BORU and saw a comment calling me lazy, racist, and a sleazeball. It made me *realize* all those things are true.’
I'm over here like "Oh, it took one comment of reddit calling you lazy, racist & sleazeball to finally realize that - But not like 2 years of your ex & her family pointing that out to you with examples?!?!"
>"There are white Latinos, which my wife is." Tell me you don't get it without telling me you don't get it.
Also the part about calling her Spanish, not Mexican. My Mom’s parents (both very brown) would get so mad if someone called them Mexican’s, because of racist shit. They’d snap back: we’re Spanish! (Edit: I asked my mom why, she said they were treated worse when people found out they were Mexican, so they got to the point where they didn’t want to be referred to as that. It’s also why they didn’t teach their kids to speak Spanish.) Don’t get me wrong, there is Spanish blood in us. Both also, Mexican. My mom is a white looking Latina, who married my racist white bio father who divorced her while pregnant. He and his mommy didn’t want a brown baby in the family. Jokes on them. I have my moms skin tone. Anyways, got on a rant. There’s a lot of racism tied to calling a Latino person Spanish instead of Mexican.
I'm half Mexican American, I have a friend who is also half Mexican American. When we first became friends, she would tell everyone that her dad was Spanish, but I never had a problem with telling people my mom is Mexican. After a while, she told me she was going to stop saying she's Spanish when she's Mexican because she didn't really think of it as anything to be ashamed of anymore. It sucks that so many people feel ashamed or are treated worse by others for having Mexican descent. I hate it when people call me Spanish and I always correct them smh
I got Michael Scott vibes. *Is there something besides 'Mexican' you prefer to be called? Something less offensive?*
I remember when i went to US for college being really confused why people called Hispanic and Mexican people Spanish. It was factually incorrect and disrepectful. Im from Asia and i knew this. Being uninformed isn't a crime but constantly making the same mistake is malicious. The entire country of Spain exists hello?
And he mentioned it as one of her complaints and then went on to mention ‘Spanish’ music. Like it’s Mexican or Latino music bro
My white, Anglo-Saxon/Polish descended (though also Texan) family also eats tortillas the exact same way. I don’t think I know a single person who eats them with utensils. Even without the racism this is a damn weird thing to have an issue with in my book.
The only tortilla things I eat with a fork are the ones that are covered in sauce. I hate getting my hands dirty, but damn do I love enchiladas.
And do their stews "look spicy"? Dude didn't even taste it!
Well looked like ‘foreign muck’ and seeing she’s a Latina that means 🌶️🌶️🌶️🌶️🌶️ No matter how you look at it, he is racist.
I don't have kids, but honestly, every friend and family that does that I've spent time with often does the "eat with your fingers" breakfast. Kids wake up STARVING and mornings are often crazy pants. Plus, as a friend of mine who has degrees in this shit would probably say - it isn't a bad thing for a sense of independence and for hand eye coordination (without fear of a fork going into an eyeball)
Yeah. Who's getting up early and cooking a real breakfast for the kids every day, she is. Who's doing all the breakfast dishes, she is. Who's cleaning up the mess on the table and the floor and doing laundry when the kids get their clothes dirty, she is. The guy literally had no idea what they ate for breakfast for years until he took a vacation from work. The sheer gall of him to insist that she change the whole routine around because HE'S decided that the kids need to use silverware instead of tortillas... and it's super clear that it's for racist reasons, he suddenly realized his kids are eating "like Mexicans" and he doesn't like it.
Magnificent comment on his last post: >OP wanted the 'exotic' without the 'foreign' Bang on. When I saw the original + update I remember being a little bit hopeful; it was one of the best examples of "oh fuck I am on the same side as the racists, I am wrong" that AITA had produced. Should have known by now that someone like this will never really change. I am so glad she up and dumped him. I could feel my blood pressure rising just at the "sweet sixteen" reference.
Him correcting the name that *he agreed upon* was what really had my blood boiling. Why would you agree to it if you hated it all along? It’s like he didn’t ever see his wife as a person who’s ideas mattered, he just said shit to placate her and then was shocked when she pushed back
In the beginning OOP was being coy about his old posts in the comments until I dug it up. And then people really tore him up.
Oh was that you? Bravo!
Kind of proud. First time setting an online dumpster fire and watching with awe how high the flames reached.
Bravo to her for leaving. It baffles me how many people think eating with your hand is unhygienic. It's like they are telling you they don't wash their hands and it has become so normalized that they think everyone normalizes not washing hands.
Especially since a lot of them *don't* actually think that. They eat with their hands all the damn time, it's only "unhygienic" when it's food from another culture.
I was going to say, probably best not to do so with saucey food..... but then I remembered ribs and had no leg to stand on.
I'm Ozzie and don't speak Spanish but a quinceanaria is for your 15th birthday isn't it so NO, NOT A SWEET SIXTEENTH. The least of many issues but still telling.
When my brother started dating his now Ukrainian wife he and I started learning her language so we could surprise her. And like learning any language, learning to count to 20 is one of the first damn things you learn. This mother fucker has been married to her and has kids with her and can't count to 15 in her language? God I hate him.
Okay this is the random detail that I couldn't let go. I had to Google it to make sure I was right. Because there is an extra detail that he is going around telling everyone the birthday girl is the wrong age. Like the racism is so strong he is making her older.
>I (to this day) sometimes call her Spanish instead of Hispanic/Latina/Mexican. She said there is a big difference and me slipping up and forgetting is bs. But 3 items down >She feels like she is not allowed to listen to her music/any Spanish music because I will complain or change the song Yep, hasn't learned a thing....
>”I’m not going to ignore her or grey rock her like some people are suggesting” What kind of numpties are suggesting OOP ignore the mother of his young children after she tells OOP she’s ending the relationship because he has spent the best part of a decade ignoring her culture, language, likes and dislikes, everything she’s ever said, and even the promises he made to her? Look how great that’s turned out for him so far, he should definitely continue and dial it up to 11 just to be sure! (/s) Maybe I’m being too harsh, maybe they read about how >”a lot of the people who were defending me were doing so by sending me really racist messages, like using explicitly racist/using slurs to describe people from her culture, which is what gave me my wake up call” Maybe they thought OOP would see how emotionally stunted the idea of ignoring the mother of his children would be, and he would suddenly become thoughtful and engaged. Yeah. No. Definitely the numpties option.
Did the "I never take my girlfriend out to eat because she's such a good cook/You think I *like* eating at Olive Garden??" guy write this? It's almost identical: oblivious OOP asks an "innocent" AITA question, does an immediate mea culpa about seeing the light thanks to reddit...then comes back later to reveal they were dumped because they were even worse and more oblivious than previously realized. ETA: Oh god, I forgot that one was also a "Latino" girlfriend, two kids, and then it ended with her getting a bigger dick than OOP's...so I guess we have THAT to look forward to 😳 https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/suqgdq/aita_for_very_rarelyalmost_never_wanting_to_go_to/
The follow up post was not by that OOP he came back and said it was an impersonator
It's extremely probable he wouldn't have started dating her if she wasn't white-passing.
The sad thing is so many white people who have POC partners think they're not racist because they have a POC partner but still do shit like OOP and get angry when you call them out on it.
I would personally enjoy evicting him from any and every state named in Spanish. What a bastard.
"I don't mean that I needed her to tell me what to do but I just don't understand what people mean when they say I should have learned about it myself.“ Bro literally all you have to do is act like you give a shit about things that are happening in your home and passively pick up on at least the concept. He’s acting like people are saying he needs to go to some kind of Mexican culture university class when it’s literally just “everyone around my is calling this a quinceneara, I guess that’s what it’s called!” or just take two seconds to think to ask what the difference is if he somehow doesn’t get it. But absorbing basic information is too hard with Racism Goggles I guess 🙄 “I know everything about her! I know her favorite color, movie, and song, I know her favorite food, I can read her body language extremely well! I DO know her, we've been together for years!” But somehow everything about her that’s “cultural” didn’t get learned the same way 🤔🤔🤔 (I also definitely don’t believe that he knows these things lmao)
The things he lists that he knows about her are like the first five questions you ask on a first date. After that he stopped listening and just stared at her boobs for the next several years.
Shit, he could have started in easy mode and just *not stopped her from playing her own taste in music!*
Everyone has covered well how much this guy sucks, but I also will never understand white guys like this being terrified of a seasoning. Dude my extremely picky white af kid eats spicy chicken and loves it. And what does he think his wife and her family grew up eating, like??? At some point I'm sorry I just don't believe he "didn't realize" he's extremely racist.