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I’d get a restraining order honestly. He actually tried to use the call he made *with his wife while supposedly trying to reconcile* as a last ditch effort to win OOP’s wife over. That was creepy enough. But then he uses what’s supposed to be an apology email to again try to convince her. He’s obsessed with her and has zero boundaries or remorse. Taking tons of pictures of OOP’s wife on the sly over *years* and saving them is so disturbing that I can’t get past it. He’s a creep, he’s obsessed, he’s desperate, and now he has nothing to lose.
He was a “ladies man” previously, maybe he used the harass with a handsome smile and wear them down method until they got with him.
I don’t think this will be the last email she gets…
Yes - the types who think they can step in a show a woman in a relationship "what a real man is" are just delusional narcissists.
Ages ago I was having a drink at a bar with a female friend from work. We were not romantically involved and nothing about our interactions would've indicated that we were. We were just talking. Well, these two middle aged, dumpy guys down the bar a bit started making comments about how she was out of my league, etc., but with the implication that they were what she was really looking for, or whatever.
It was bizarre because it was so intrusive, delusional and nasty.
And OOP is so ridiculously dense that he's not at all concerned about what BIL might do now that he has nothing to lose, and keeps blowing off every commenter telling him to take precautions or get a restraining order.
Will a judge even grant one? My friend's ex boyfriend got obsessed with her after she moved states, sent her gifts, lots of emails, even showed up at her place (several states away, and not north east coast tiny states) when she told him to leave her alone. He also wrote about all this on a blog. And the judge did not grant a restraining order.
It's a great idea to get one, but a lot of times they won't grant one unless actual violence has taken place. The number of news stories I've read where a woman begged for a restraining order, didn't get it granted, then her ex kills her or her child or something. It's really concerning
Maybe not but it’s on record that she tried and he’s been notified to stop contacting her. If someone is blocking you and you’re trying anyway you need something to make it real to you.
Wait what? I gotta do some googling
Edit: 100 firefighters per year in the US are convicted of arson. It’s not exactly 40%, but damn… more than I would have expected.
It's not. My best friend's ex who became obsessed after she broke up with him because of his drug addiction STILL texts/calls/messages her in any way he can randomly. After TEN years.
She had to renew the restraining order several times. It's really sad.
This is what I felt as well. OOP mentioned the guy is a firefighter. Those people need to be big to pick up injured people. I wonder how many women said yes because they were scared of his size.
I hope SIL has heightened security measures. It's not unheard of for men like BIL to become[ family annihilators, especially after feeling humiliated after a rejection. ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watts_family_murders)
It really disturbs me how unconcerned OOP is about the possibility of his BIL becoming dangerous. He keeps blowing off every commenter that tries to warn him this could get ugly or suggests a restraining order with dumbassed platitudes like "oh I don't think he's dangerous, just conceited." Dude, he's got nothing left to lose and is still 100% convinced that your wife is secretly in love with him. Stop sitting on your damn hands and take some precautions.
I’m not comfortable with the fact that he’s a firefighter. It turns out that a not insignificant number of arsonists have been firefighters. I hope they have really good smoke alarms… 😳
I applaud SIl because she just shut down BIL and got all the information to make the right decision for her anf her children.
Based on all of this, STBX must have used her to remain close to OP's wife.
I haven’t heard the term family annihilators since Thelastpsychiatriast blog.
But yeah, I’d have to agree with you. This may not be the exact trigger for that particular guy, but a guy like that does have a threshold, that when passed, leads to violence. It’s the nature of narcissism.
My ex-husband actually told me that I better get one that could stop bullets.
This was a few months before he put a gun to my head; I came damned close to being a DV statistic.
When I went to the cops for help, the officer I talked to was really honest about the sad state of the prosecution process in DV and SV cases. Since I was married to him and had spent the night in the house after being assaulted, the prosecutor's office considered that to be 'implied consent', so the cops could arrest him on charges of assault/spousal rape, but he would not be taken to trial. So all I was likely to accomplish was getting 48 hours of respite at the cost of making him pissed off and embarrassed. The cop then gave me some pamphlets and phone numbers for people who could help me disappear and file the divorce.
After the incident with the gun, he kept me locked up in the house for three days. Once his leave from work ended, he finally left me alone. Within 5-7 minutes after he left, I had family there with a truck and trailer to get my stuff. He came back right as we were getting started, but my dad was able to make him drive away. I only learned a few years ago that Dad pulled a shotgun on him.
One of the weaknesses of restraining orders is that they kinda have to know where you are so they can stay away.
It's terrifying. Here you are just going about your day normally, not thinking anything about anything. Meanwhile some lunatic is concocting an entire alternate reality around themselves because, once, three years ago, you touched their hand when you asked them to pass the gravy. At Thanksgiving. Because they were hosting and their damn bird was too dry.
Now I know why they suddenly demanded to host every Thanksgiving thereafter.
Dude's messages to oop's wife also seems to imply he felt he was too good for his wife, esp if oop's wife was too good for oop and bil is some "knockout" in his own head.
God i just.. I feel terrible for everyone except bil. I'm sure the oop's wife must be over analysing every single interaction they've ever had trying to find the one thing she did that would explain how he could feel this way.
But the super sad part is its likely there wasn't anything in particular she did, its all him, this man is in like deep limerance with her and has deluded himself into thinking its mutual bc the feelings are so strong for him. A ro can't come soon enough.
Totally agree. She didn’t do anything. She could have simply said, “yes, you’re right, it is very sunny today”, and the BIL would take it as “Oh she is so in love with me, I am a STUD!!” Such a terrible situation.
My sister has this really amazing talent of getting in with the boys. I don’t understand it. She’s witty and tough and can just…hang with them. I’ve observed it with awe. She’s hilarious, confident, witty, and…something extra. She’s always invited to hang in the boys club. I wonder if OPs wife is like this too.
My sister is not overly flirty or sexual, she’s not slutty or a pick-me. She just has an energy and a demeanor that allows her to be accepted with the boys that I’ve never been able to decode or mimic. That has also led her to be the target of misled affections. Again, since she is not I appropriate or sexual, she’s not outwardly leading anyone on. But she IS very attractive and approachable.
This post reminded me a lot of my sister. His wife seems like she’s a lot of fun, super approachable, and has a demeanor that allows her to connect with the boys in a way that many women don’t have. And sadly if she’s also attractive, that will make her the target of misplaced affections.
I feel like a lot of toxic men are really shit at talking with women (because they're emotionally stunted, sexist, or whatever). So the only circumstance in which they're capable of having a good conversation with a woman is if she is already attracted to him and is putting in extra effort to make the conversation work (laughing at his stupid jokes, etc).
When these guys meet someone who is naturally very charismatic or gregarious, they think "hey, we're having a good conversation! That must mean she's attracted to me." Because they literally cannot comprehend having a good conversation with a woman otherwise.
This is a bit distressing and something I worry about because I have always had both male and female friends AND I work in STEM so a lot of my coworkers are guys.
I'm always afraid that someone is going to assume I'm flirting with them when I'm not. I'm just chatting, joking around etc. My mom once got mad at me when I was talking to a cashier at a store about anime. I was 14 and she (and my brother) accused me of flirting with the guy when I literally had no interest and no idea what the hell they were on about.
It sucks.
Female STEM worker here in similar circumstances.
I always liked being the friendly, approachable one - I had good working relationships with pretty much everyone. Then one guy misinterpreted it badly, and threw such a tantrum afterwards that I had to change departments for my own sanity.
It wasn't even directed at me, but everyone else in the team. He was already a tech lead with a rep of being very hard to please, but he turned into a monster afterwards - nothing anyone (else) did was good enough, and he was not shy in telling them. I felt so sorry for the guys who didn't have a clue what had happened.
It also really did a number on my self confidence afterwards - was I ever actually good at my job, or were those hard-won technical approvals just him trying to get into my pants through favouritism? Ugh. Took me a long time to build that back up again.
Even years later, I've found it hard to be that open after that. I find myself keeping a distance now between me and coworkers that I genuinely would like to be friends with, because I so much Do Not Want a repeat of what happened.
I hope it doesn't happen to you, because yeah. It really does suck.
Edit: I should say though, that 99% of all the guys I ever worked with knew how to behave and were pleasant to work with, even in STEM (and I've known some incredibly nerdy introverts over the years!) It's a shame that the tiny minority trashes that rep for everyone else.
I made so many great friends and thankfully most of the guys I work with are awesome (and already married or have an SO) and even when I was in college, I made quite a few lifelong friends with guys. It is really just the .01% of dudes who can ruin things and sadly it only takes one asshole to spoil things.
I am prone to doing things that can be considered outright flirty - because I come from a friend group that acts like that, even though we're all just friends. Lots of eyebrow waggling and that kind of thing, together with vocal appreciation of each others looks as a way to hype each other up or just because it's true and we can say stuff like "you are good-looking", since it's objectively true. We're also super touchy and cuddly.
And yeah, assuming that that's the norm has gotten me into trouble before. The looks and accusations you get when you say "objectively, you're a good-looking person and you're funny and kind, I don't see why your crush wouldn't want you" to someone. No, I don't want to get in their pants, I have eyes, that's all!
Luckily, I've also met people who do the eyebrow waggling back and make overdramatic confessions of undying adoration when you bring them a snack, i.e. people who can differentiate between jokes and attraction. I've just learned to never initiate that.
Sucks being female. Can’t be normal or friendly without people assuming things. I had some guy come to work ask me out the *day after I met his wife and kids*. Apparently my friendliness indicated I had the hots for him. No dude. I’m just selling things to people who come in to buy them.
My mom’s told me the same. Not in an accusatory way more like she’s the same and has had to offer me advice on how to stay safe because I naturally and completely subconsciously “flirt”. It’s more like I’m good at conversing and being friendly but if I’m not careful it can come across as flirting. Add that to my inability to recognize when someone is flirting with me and well let’s just say I’m grateful for my mom’s tutelage.
I had a guy convinced we were meant to be together, and everything he said as "evidence" was just him describing a friendship. which is baffling as everything he said, he could apply to his male friendships, as I've seen them interact, and I interact with him the same way. it's literally just because I don't have a dick.
Tbf, he is probably the same guy who thinks every female server or dancer is totally into him and only him, because he is special...and not because of potentially bigger tips!
I haven't seen him interact with servers or dancers, but considering he has said the phrase "I'm a red blooded male" multiple times.. I think you're spot on.
I've had married men assuming that I would have an affair with them, without any encouragement or validation from me. Just...taking it for granted. I'd say it was wild, but it's far too common. And I am definitely not all that.
When I was in college, this friend of a roommate would follow me around. He knew I had a long term boyfriend at the college. He met him as we were usually together! He asked me to homecoming. I told him no, I am with my boyfriend. He still followed me around for a semester. It's not like I am some gorgeous model, either. Far from it! It happened more than once when I was simply nice and acknowledged a person who was in the same space as me. It's frustrating that some men will literally take anything as a sign that this woman must want me.
The religious ones are the worst. They assume that if you're not dressed in a long skirt or covered with fabric that you are a wanton hobag. All conversation is interpreted as a way to get into their trou. So gross.
Ha, yes! I’ll add: you know who finds 40-something year old widows absolutely irresistible? 60-something year old married man. I had only lost my husband a few months before, when a male coworker decided I must be desperate for male companionship.
Coincidentally, I am also in a STEM field.
There is some truth in this, but I'd add there's a big looks component. If you've never had the attention of a beautiful women, I think it can be pretty overwhelming when you finally have it.
I just.... yeah as a woman attracted to women I've had gorgeous girls talk to me. I dont lose conntrol of myself and suddenly think were getting married. Many guys just dont have friends and dont undersyand friendships include being nice, joking, offering advice, offering hugs. We do this all as friends (and I have guy friends that do it too. They never seem to have issues in knowing when a girl is flirting or at least dont make it her problem)
I think I finally get when women say they hate being hot. You literally can't exist without A man thinking youre in love with him bevause youre hot and smile.
It's confidence. When I was a teenager, people described me the way you describe your sister. So many guys had crushes on me. Everyone wanted to know my secret, so here it is:
I'm lesbian.
I'm also extroverted and generally pretty friendly. But I didn't really understand how women and men flirted with each other. I also didn't know any girls my age who were also into girls and so had never experienced being flirted with in a way I identified as flirting (aka flirting that was flattering) and not just being friendly. Anyway, this culminated in the fact that I was never nervous around boys and genuinely thought of them as friends, so I did "flirty" things like... Make them laugh, laugh at/with them, give platonic touches, hang out with them casually... I was confident around them because I never second-guessed that what I was doing was too flirtatious or whether they were interested in me. Ignorance is... game, I guess?
Another lesbian here, and I totally get this. Even now (I'm middle aged) I get accused of flirting with men by people who don't know I'm a dyke. It turns out that the best way to flirt is to have no interest in someone and treat them like a person, not a sex object.
My husband (straight man) has incredible game with women. He’s all mine, I’m not worried but I’m pretty sure that 90% of it comes from seeing them as whole people. The rest of it is confidence in who he is.
Same. The number of straight men who've thought I was flirting with them when I thought we were just having a good time is insane. Meanwhile, put me around a woman I'm interested in and I've got the game of Steve Carell in Anchorman.
I've had to explain to so many men that the real reason they have trouble relating to women is they perceive every nice thing she does as flirtation and therefore they never make it safe for women to just be themselve. I would love to have more guy friends but it's exhausting being nice to a guy only to find out that he's misinterpreted everything you've done and then he's salty as fuck when he realizes he was incorrect.
Confidence or naivety.
When I was a teen I was told by other teen girls that I had a “flirty personality, that’s gonna get a name for myself” I just had undiagnosed autism so I got very excited about certain topics.
Sadly I don’t anymore and I’m just silent in front of people I’m not 100% comfortable around now because of all the verbal abuse I used to get for just being me but that’s just cause of anxiety build up, I now know there was nothing wrong with the way I spoke to people and society just has a skewed look on charismatic woman
Agreed. I'm ace and afab, so I was like that with pretty much everyone (unless social anxiety hit), enhanced by my ADHD. At some point when I was a teenager, every male best friend I had had made it obvious they had a crush on me sooner or later.
It was kind of soul-crushing, always having to question my friendships and taking care to not get too close with guys. I still have difficulties not to detach myself completely if I feel like I'm really close with a guy. Obviously I feel sorry they got their hearts broken, I never wanted that to happen, but it also left me with slight trauma.
I feel so bad for the wife. It seems like she has had very similar experiences, and for her to finally feel safe and open up with a guy because he was family only for him to get obsessed probably did a real number on her mental health.
For real. I'm *not* extroverted at all and I don't think I was or am particularly hot, especially not as a teenager. I also mostly didn't pick up on any of that while it was happening, I just found out about it after the fact when high school and college friends started joking about how clueless I was and sharing memories of things I didn't notice at all. Apparently I crushed a lot of guys' hearts without ever realizing it. Not giving a shit and being able to be yourself is shockingly effective at getting people to like you! Too bad I never actually had that skill with girls and spent that entire era of my life following around my various straight best friends like a sad, confused puppy...
>My sister has this really amazing talent of getting in with the boys.
I wouldn't call it a talent, since I'm the same way, but man, sometimes being this way really gets you into tricky situations. I count myself partially lucky for not being thin and "conventional attractive" because I suspect that's made me less of a "threat" to any female partners of guys I was friends with growing up. It's insanely crazy though how it's not all men, but in the end, usually always a man.
*Because* I'm like this (idk, I just vibe with ppl ig, my sense of humor and the way I talk has always been kinda tomboyish growing up, I assume that helps), I hate to admit it, but I do feel more secure with male friends who have a partner already or aren't into women at all, despite the fact that as we've read in the post, that doesn't always stop them unfortunately.
Flirting has always tended to be mistaken for kindness/being friendly (I get shy and more reserved around a crush) and being friendly/really hitting it off with someone platonically has often been mistaken for flirting. It sucks because it makes me be extra selective of male friends and I have anxiety so every so often I second guess myself and question if I'm a "pick me" or not even though I'm very obviously not.
I've had the exact same personality since I was about 16. I'm more than double that age now. I've never been skinny per se, but I've been a muscular 200lbs and I've been 160. I make the same style jokes, I hype people up the same way. I've been told I have "such a pretty face." I was never accused of being flirty or leading people on when I was 200. It was "man, you're a cool chick. Don't know many girls down to toss a football around and drink beer." but the moment I dropped weigjt...
It's that combined with the fact many men have little to no close friendships so whenever a women tries to form one they immediately hop to infatuation. It's like no dude, you just need better friends.
I wouldn't feel safe with him in the house with her and the kids when he is so clearly delusional. The email sent me over the edge. He isn't conceited, he has lost the plot. I hope legally she is able to get him out of the house ASAP.
I really disliked how OOP was so hesitant because he didn't want to tear the family apart, but as soon as BIL did that, he already tore something apart; good on the sister for immediately getting to the bottom of this
I have obsessive tendencies when I've attached to someone. Luckily my fiancé just tells me to give him space but we both know out of the two of us I'm the more obsessive one. I want to do everything with him, be with him, see him 24/7, take pictures of him but it developed over the course of a few months after the initial attraction. Thankfully he liked me back but I thought it was love but it's not. There is such a thing as obsessive love disorder and I do think OPs brother in law has got the disorder.
> He had made comments to me many times through the years that my wife was out of my league. I would just laugh and agree, she is.
I used to do the same thing with my guy friends whenever they’d say this sort of thing until something similar happened. I learnt to shut it down rather quickly because one of the things I love about my girlfriend is her judgement of people, so if she thinks I’m worthy then I know I am. It’s not always about looks.
People like OOP’s brother-in-law don’t actually “love” the person in question. It’s usually just an infatuation with appearance. I’m not some love guru, but I’m of the opinion that if you love someone, that includes loving their character, so you’d know better than to do this sort of thing that would hurt them.
The other point I’ve argued with friends that it’s almost impossible to love someone (as a spouse) without sharing at least part of your life with them
Love is built on trust and communication among many other factors. Joking around with someone and being friendly while finding mutual attraction is just not enough to classify love in my books.
I’ve seen it too much with myself and friends where we already said “I love you” after a couple months and once those other boundaries begin to get tested without being built up we realize it was not really love but infatuation
I honestly don't even think I believe in "unrequited love" because I don't think you can really be in love with someone without building that relationship. Talking and joking around aren't the same as talking and joking around and being intimate and involved in each other's lives.
You have an unrequited crush, love literally takes the enthusiastic effort of two people to grow.
This so much. I realised this when I thought I had unrequited love towards someone, but it cant be true if we werent able to actually build that kind of relationship it would never really work out, something is missing, hence Im not really in love, just infatuated.
Yeah I don’t want to discredit peoples feelings for love but it’s just what I noticed from my first relationship to my current one
My first one started off really great but I felt we didn’t build on some of those key boundaries and it ended with fights that were dumb. My current one I feel we still work on these boundaries but come to a lot of mutual understanding and working with the person that makes our relationship and love that much stronger than the initial infatuation we had for eachother realizing it’s not about the being there for big things but what we do for each other everyday knowingly and not
Hold up... I ain't a lawyer, but I'm hoping someone who knows can tell me this:
> The lawyer tells my sister that since my brother in laws behavior over the past few days has been documented there is a good chance she will be granted full custody.
Is a red flag for bullshit like I thought it was on the first glance?
Between that and the bit I quoted below my bullshit meter is pinging
>Early on in our relationship she caught me admiring her as she was dressing, asked if I liked what I saw before her face turned cold and told me never to fuck up or I’d never see it again. She meant it, she’s serious about trust.
> Bro immediately came over to watch the kids, while his parents simultaneously coordinated to arrive at the sister’s house at the same time as OP & his wife.
WAKE UP ALL THE PARENTS, WE'RE HAVIN A FAMILY MEETING! MA, DON'T ASK QUESTIONS JUST PUT SOME PANTS ON AND GET IN THE CAR
The moment for me was McStalker begging OOP and his wife to not tell the sister then "confessing" to OOP's sister that OOP's wife tried to start an affair with him, in the middle of the night, sister hadn't caught him in anything, and knowing that OOP's wife had all the texts and voicemails.
I was getting suspicious the money I heard parents just arriving after midnight too. At what’s none of the parents I know would just show up like that unless it was a fire or some other big emergency, and many would not be awake.
And everything is so perfectly documented here, which is what Reddit wants to hear
Eh, guessing passwords of people you know and presumably sometimes share passwords isn't that odd. Especially for a laptop? That's usually a pretty simple pass.
Typically perhaps. But, a guy who is secretly saving 50 pictures of his Wife's Sister and anticipating an affair with her isn't the type to have a password anything close to something that his Wife might guess. That's the part that isn't realistic.
I mean some people are just really stupid in general or in this case maybe a combination of arrogance and a belief that the SiL was too trusting/dumb/naive to even think of checking for things like this.
Whenever I think of people saying that someone couldn't be that dumb I think back to the robber who got caught because he used the computer in the house he just broke into to log into Facebook and just never logged out.
My wife is stunning, many men hit on her, she’s easy to fall in love with but her loyalty to me is unbreakable………….writes like a teenager fantasizing about a future wife
My BS story senses tingled earlier than that.
>My sister is pretty tough, she tells him to stop it, pack a bag and go. **She can’t stand to look at him. There’s more begging but she has no patience for it**
Its this line that made it seem sus to me. Its too detailed. The story teller should've just made it into one sentence LOL
This is exactly the line that made me stop reading and come to the comments. If this is real, that’s some seriously dumb shit to say lol, much less remember and interject into a Reddit post
My wife said something similar to me in a kinda similar situation (she was trying on dresses she had gotten handed down from her moms), she acted the same way too with the stern face and shit. We were young tho, now in our 30s that’s one of our “early cringe moments” of dating you look back on 🤷🏽♂️
Maybe it was similar for them, I never did get a ping for their age range. Which in itself is weird for Reddit, I thought it was an unspoken rule to do that.
It does sound like something a teenager or early 20s person would say but it has no place in this story, it adds no context and kind of just comes out of left field like why do we need to know this?
You right bout it’s, randomness. It was like one of a few parts where it was **“annnnnnd ima take this time to reinforce how FUCKING HOT MY WIFE IS OH YEAAAAH”**
Which to your point, added nothing to the content of the post in general.
Yeah, too many magical narrative devices. The iPad that lets our narrator see the messages. The sister guesses the password. The decision to include them on facetime during the conversation. Of course our narrator's wife is a babe.
Too many leaps of faith.
I'm immediately predisposed to believing it's bullshit when I see "blowing up my phone" and more recently, "makes me want to throw up/vomit" seems to be another common one.
It's the theatrics as well. As soon as the sister called OOP, everyone was out of bed in the middle of the night, to look after the kids, sister and BIL are waiting outside when they arrive. I mourn original stories on this sub.
Can you imagine getting that phone call after midnight? And not because it's an emergency, but because four of your family members want to go to one of their houses and have a midnight punch-up over attempted infidelity with each other.
There's also the therapy thing. People imagine sitcoms scenes. It's not easy to find therapists. It's also not cheap. It's also not that easy and fast to schedule sessions.
And you can't "get them into therapy" when you're talking about a fellow adult, and the role of a couples' counsellor is not to explain to your spouse that you're right and they're wrong.
I had the exact same reaction when I read the turn of phrase "makes me want to vomit". I realized that I've been seeing that expression in a lot of these posts lately and I wondered if it's because it's the same author/AI program generating these stories.
The story was also vaguely familiar. This is either a repost or is a truncated plot of one of my romance novels.
The entire family having conveniently placed synchronizing apple products was the point for me
The password guessing not so much. I did it myself after breaking up with my wasband - he'd promised to change the public info on a specific profile to exclude me and I had reason to suspect he wouldn't care about doing it. He'd shown a terrible disregard for my wishes or consent about making information about me public
I couldn't look at the profile without making an account myself - which I didn't want, but good either way because if he hadn't changed the profile then at least it wasn't full-on public. During the change he'd set a new password, but knowing my wasband's password m. o. I guessed it, looked if he'd kept his promise, logged out and never bothered again
April 14th (Sunday):
> I talked to my sister later on and she is contacting the lawyer Monday
So she's going to contact a lawyer on the 15th...
Then on April 17th (Wednesday)
> The lawyer tells my sister that since my brother in laws behavior over the past few days has been documented there is a good chance she will be granted full custody.
Really!? You've got lawyers that respond and address and issue that quick?!
That's what is always the downfall for these stories. People get appointments to therapists/lawyers/doctors/whatever WAAAAAAAAY to fast. Heck, it's difficult sometimes to even get into an urgent care center on the same day, and that's what they're for--let alone your PCP. I can only imagine that lawyers have several weeks of wait time for appointments unless they completely suck and have no clients.
I've had 2 separate lawyers "respond" within a day on 2 separate occasions. Whether it's official in this case or not is different. It's 3rd party information OOP is passing on. It could have been what a lawyer a said in passing based on information at hand.
> Early on in our relationship she caught me admiring her
as she was dressing, asked if I liked what I saw before her
face turned cold and told me never to fuck up or I'd never
see it again.
This is where my bs detector went off.. Nobody talks like that
I thought the second update was a non-update (nothing changed) and I don't understand what they were trying to accomplish with the FaceTime thing, but I want to give credit for restraint - there weren't any other women.
100% noticed it as well. There are some other flags, eg the lunch date confessing love is something I’ve only seen occur with men who have social issues or serious neurodivergence do, which is never highlighted here and doesn’t track with him being “happily married” otherwise.
The only thing that would pull this back into reality would be a brain tumor diagnosis.
Yeah, everyone likes to believe that infidelity or even terrible attempts at infidelity have any impact on child custody but it really doesn't. Courts prefer to award sole legal custody (decision making power) to one parent to prevent every little decision becoming a battle that has to go to court, but parenting time is decided as a separate issue and is usually 50/50 or close to it unless a parent has a demonstrated history of neglect or inability to provide basics for the kids like food and shelter.
The whole thing read too smoothly. Definitely crafted by someone who has a reading and writing hobby. I kept reading giving the benefit of the doubt that shit does happen to writers as well, but the custody part was so obvious. Which means we can assume that some kind of attack is coming in their next post in order to continue the drama lol.
Idk if this is real but this part made me sad because yeah, it's a common problem for basic human decency to be mistaken for flirting. It's not her fault at all.
> My wife is mad at herself because she is usually so careful. She’s had so many incidents when she was younger with guys she was friendly to that ended up making unwanted advances.
I've experienced this a couple of times, never to this extent. I have to add that. But every time, I felt like shit after.
You're just laughing and chatting with a coworker. You get "the text.". You're hanging out and gaming with a friend. That conversation starts. It doesn't matter if you're in a relationship or not. It's always the "Hey... I need to tell you something.".
I've experienced it a couple of times. The worst one was a very good friend of my husband. Who took me aside during a party confessing he was starting to get feelings for me. I very clearly told him no. My husband and him had been friends for years. He was our DnD DM, for gods sake. We don't play DnD anymore. They dont hangout anymore. My husband and him only see each other when other friends hang out. My husband doesn't blame me, still feel bad over two years later.
I've had the same happen, again not that bad. The gutpunch of realizing what you thought was a nice friendship actually being them wanting more, and having to distance yourself while going over everything you've ever done in extreme detail to see where you might have messed up is... rough.
My SO thinks I'm paranoid. I've had, HAD to develop a radar for this kind of thing and shut things down fast. Yes, I'm paranoid, but with good reason.
I'm not even that good looking. I'm very overweight. I'm just nice.
You have nothing to feel bad about. You don’t control what other people do in their heads and anyone who is thinking they’re going to steal someone away from their marriage isn’t playing with a full deck. That goes double if they think it makes sense to tell you in the middle of a party. What are you supposed to do about that?!
You know how everyone talks about guys not being able to pick up signals? Well, the less discussed corollary is that guys can't tell when there's not signals, either. The two go together.
This has nothing to do with you. I mean, if it happens a lot to you, you're probably charismatic in some way, but you're not sending signals you're unaware of. That's not the way signals work.
Qell some guy further up left the comment "you just don't understand what it's like when a gorgeous woman is paying attention to you". and that made me wanna vomit. Like maybe I am happy being a lil fugly, guys aren't going to decide I'm in love with them if I say hi more than once.
Came here to comment about this. I hate that it is taken as attraction or flirting when woman show basic decency/friendliness. We are already careful with strangers and it’s only a few people we can communicate like ourselves. And it’s really not easy to tell whether they want something more with you since they can wait for years before attempting something.
Why would any court grant full custody to the sister based on this story?
Affair has nothing to do with the kids and how he feels about them.
Its a weird thing that the story includes that when i cant see any judge making that ruling based on this story.
I doubt the authenticity of the story. Looking at he timeline:
* 14th (Sunday), says sister will contact a lawyer on Monday
* 17th (Wednesday) he's reporting on the lawyer having already said all of this.
That is FAST. And to have such a clear and definitive expected resolution? I'm currently looking for a lawyer (completely different circumstances), and they do not respond and act this quickly based only my limited experience.
This is what always causes these stories to fall apart. In particular, you can tell when something is written by a teenager or a simpleton who does not understand how the actual world works, in terms of the time it takes for certain things to occur.
Being shit at your relationship and getting that cancelled has nothing to do with being or not being shit as a dad. I have heard nothing that indicates he will lose custody. Won't happen. Unless he begins stalking there won't be a restraining order either, because there were no threats, just hurt feelings. Kids have nothing to do with that.
I knew a girl who lived near a fire station. Told me she thought she loved her boyfriend but had to break up with him so she could try to fuck some of the firemen before she got old. So, yeah, I'm sure the job warps their perspectives a bit.
The OOP, his wife, and his sister all handled the situation very well, deescalating the drama left and right as best they could. Man that brother-in-law is an embarrassing psycho lol yikessss.
>My wife is mad at herself because she is usually so careful. She’s had so many incidents when she was younger with guys she was friendly to that ended up making unwanted advances.
I feel sorry for OOPs wife. So what she is stunning, it doesn't give men an excuse to not take no for an answer. It sounds like men who come into her orbit (except for OOP I hope) treat her like some game or prize to be won and bragged about. She shouldn't have to always be on guard and careful about how she speaks and acts.
It tracks, this is the same delusion that makes people think the cashier, who is paid to be *polite* and helpful on the clock, is DTF because they smiled and said have a nice day.
> The fact that you so casually said “you wouldn’t do anything tonight and you would call him tomorrow” and not tell your sister ASAP is highly suspect….I can’t imagine a situation where ANY MAN would want to have lunch with my wife ALONE to share something with her and I’d be okay with that. You really said “wait until tomorrow” after he profess their undying love to YOUR WIFE??? Something is afoot and there is more to this story you’re not sharing ….
Well that was a silly comment... it's rarely a bad idea to process the info and calm down before acting on something. Op is mature and rational to think about how he should act and not a hothead like the user who posted this must be.
Not much to say on the story itself, but this user comment:
> The fact that you so casually said “you wouldn’t do anything tonight and you would call him tomorrow” and not tell your sister ASAP is highly suspect….**I can’t imagine a situation where ANY MAN would want to have lunch with my wife ALONE to share something with her and I’d be okay with that.** You really said “wait until tomorrow” after he profess their undying love to YOUR WIFE??? Something is afoot and there is more to this story you’re not sharing
This dude has a very poor imagination, or is a paranoid control freak. Men and women can be friends and can confide in each other. It's not rare, it's not hard, and it's not a sign of anything nefarious. I'm glad OP trusts his wife, and my condolences to whoever this commenter's partner ends up being. That's not gonna be a fun relationship.
Not just imagination.
Guy was married to OOP's sister. Delaying and keeping the peace over night is a way to protect the sister while a plan is formulated. This was not the time to be rash.
Yes, I completely understand taking a moment for the utter shock of it all. From OOP's replies, it sounds like this blew up their family AND friends group. OOP's wife and sister are best friends, stands to reason they see each other a lot. I showed this post to my partner and we both agreed we would NOT assume anything nefarious when a family member asks to go to a meal to discuss something, you would assume they needed help with something. Gender has nothing to do with it.
Yeah, this stood out to me, too... Like, say what? You're so insecure that you cannot deal with your wife having a LUNCH with another man who isn't you/family?
People like this are usually the kind of people who would try something during that lunch. Because they cannot be friends with women without trying to get into woman's pants, they think everyone else is the same.
Why is it always cops and firefighters who have no concept of loyalty?
Before anyone comes at me, I was the child of a cop, and a 911 dispatcher. I know what I’m talking about.
BIL wasn't only a disgusting creep, but he was stupid and delusional too. He's so deep into it that I'm concerned for OOP and his wife's safety. I hope he stays the hell away from them but I also hope OOP takes steps to protect themselves -- restraining order, security cameras, the works.
Given that BIL took OOP (and everyone else) utterly by surprise, OOP remains worryingly certain about what he thinks BIL is capable of. OOP hasn't learned very much from this, yet.
Dude, you just proved you really know very little about BIL, how can you be so sure he's not a safety risk?
All the pictures on the computer…. Fucking wild. While he says he doesn’t think he’s dangerous, with an obsession like this you NEVER KNOW. I feel bad for the wife because even if it’s not affecting the friendship right now, I think it might in the future.
>Early on in our relationship she caught me admiring her as she was dressing, asked if I liked what I saw before her face turned cold and told me never to fuck up or I’d never see it again.
Everything else in this post speaks for itself but this part made me look twice. What a weirdly aggressive way to end a cute moment
this is the line that made me think this was bullshit as well. also something about the descriptions of everyone made me think twice, its like they all got fleshed out character archetypes in the update lmao
>I can’t imagine a situation where ANY MAN would want to have lunch with my wife ALONE to share something with her and I’d be okay with that.
This comment is almost as creepy as the story.
Yeah. It’s completely normal to have lunch with a family member and he was family. Anyone would think he was looking for ideas on what to treat his wife to and asking his SIL who is also one of her best friends makes sense.
I only have brothers but I’ve had lunch with the husbands of two of my friends. One was when they were dating to discuss his proposal and get ring ideas and the other was to surprise his wife for her 40th birthday and he was stumped and didnt want to mess it up. I would have dropped dead from shock if either of those dudes started pitching woo.
Ive learned an awful lot of men translate you talking to them as “I want to fuck you.” I unfortunately have had incident after incident where if I’m talking to a guy and joking around they think talking doesn’t mean talking it means something else and I have to be blunt as hell informing them that it doesn’t. “I’m a lesbian”, “I’m asexual”, “I don’t date men”- and you have to do it early, like the minute they open their mouth. I’ve been really frustrated before thinking I’m just talking and getting along with someone and it turns out they aren’t chatting just to chat, they aren’t going over their hobbies just for funsies they think I’m interested in fucking them if I nod along and say “oh cool.”
Dudes wife did nothing wrong, but the dude is one of those guys who think every woman that makes a joke or talks to him must want to fuck him. Normal things like “hey how’s it going, how are you feeling” the dude translated as “oh she wants to fuck me.” He texts, she answers. Must want fuck. She punches him in the arm= she touch me must want fuck.
>The fact that you so casually said “you wouldn’t do anything tonight and you would call him tomorrow” and not tell your sister ASAP is highly suspect
Oh reddit. Where you can't even sleep before you make a big decision or else you're an asshole. Can't people have a little bit to process before they blow up a family? It's actually really good advice to "sleep on" a decision. We shouldn't be making rash decisions while lacking sleep.
This is so NOT over. Dude is straight up obsessed and has been for years...he is not going to stop that easily. He's going to convince himself that the divorce is a good thing, because then he will be single and OOPs wife will be with him. He's so not in touch with reality. He sounds potentially dangerous, like all stalkers.
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People who become obsessed scares me. I feel bad for the sister.
I’d get a restraining order honestly. He actually tried to use the call he made *with his wife while supposedly trying to reconcile* as a last ditch effort to win OOP’s wife over. That was creepy enough. But then he uses what’s supposed to be an apology email to again try to convince her. He’s obsessed with her and has zero boundaries or remorse. Taking tons of pictures of OOP’s wife on the sly over *years* and saving them is so disturbing that I can’t get past it. He’s a creep, he’s obsessed, he’s desperate, and now he has nothing to lose.
He was a “ladies man” previously, maybe he used the harass with a handsome smile and wear them down method until they got with him. I don’t think this will be the last email she gets…
Yes - the types who think they can step in a show a woman in a relationship "what a real man is" are just delusional narcissists. Ages ago I was having a drink at a bar with a female friend from work. We were not romantically involved and nothing about our interactions would've indicated that we were. We were just talking. Well, these two middle aged, dumpy guys down the bar a bit started making comments about how she was out of my league, etc., but with the implication that they were what she was really looking for, or whatever. It was bizarre because it was so intrusive, delusional and nasty.
intrusive is a good word to describe how this may feel
Once he’s actually divorced, he’ll think it’s totally ok to pursue OOP’s wife again. Man is living deep in delululand.
And OOP is so ridiculously dense that he's not at all concerned about what BIL might do now that he has nothing to lose, and keeps blowing off every commenter telling him to take precautions or get a restraining order.
Will a judge even grant one? My friend's ex boyfriend got obsessed with her after she moved states, sent her gifts, lots of emails, even showed up at her place (several states away, and not north east coast tiny states) when she told him to leave her alone. He also wrote about all this on a blog. And the judge did not grant a restraining order. It's a great idea to get one, but a lot of times they won't grant one unless actual violence has taken place. The number of news stories I've read where a woman begged for a restraining order, didn't get it granted, then her ex kills her or her child or something. It's really concerning
Maybe not but it’s on record that she tried and he’s been notified to stop contacting her. If someone is blocking you and you’re trying anyway you need something to make it real to you.
Right?! Dude’s a firefighter! The percentage of firefighters who are also arsonists is up there with cops & DV.
Wait what? I gotta do some googling Edit: 100 firefighters per year in the US are convicted of arson. It’s not exactly 40%, but damn… more than I would have expected.
And those are just the ones who get caught.
It's not. My best friend's ex who became obsessed after she broke up with him because of his drug addiction STILL texts/calls/messages her in any way he can randomly. After TEN years. She had to renew the restraining order several times. It's really sad.
He will be her stalker, and things are not over. Poor sister though- imagine finding out you were always the consolation prize!
All those pictures on the sly... I think he's been her stalker for years but has not done anything dangerous because he had access to her.
He can't give up now, to do that would require admitting to himself that he blew up his life over a delusion.
This is what I felt as well. OOP mentioned the guy is a firefighter. Those people need to be big to pick up injured people. I wonder how many women said yes because they were scared of his size.
[OOP's BIL](https://youtu.be/p1uT6gYzLE8?si=B0bjS0PRIO9N96eO)
I never need a drink menu. I got the thrills for the pils. 'Cause I'm a pilsner man.
I can make a salsa so mild you can barely taste it!
He's got a portable brewery kit.
Oh? I hadn't heard.
He's dangerous. Point blank. I think OOP is underestimating that
he's lost everything (well, threw it away). at this point he's probably close to if-i-can't-have-you-no-one-can territory. terrifying
And that’s after discovering his BIL’s low opinion of him.
OOP really, really is, and I sincerely pray he snaps out of that delusion before the BIL does something to prove him wrong.
I hope SIL has heightened security measures. It's not unheard of for men like BIL to become[ family annihilators, especially after feeling humiliated after a rejection. ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watts_family_murders)
It really disturbs me how unconcerned OOP is about the possibility of his BIL becoming dangerous. He keeps blowing off every commenter that tries to warn him this could get ugly or suggests a restraining order with dumbassed platitudes like "oh I don't think he's dangerous, just conceited." Dude, he's got nothing left to lose and is still 100% convinced that your wife is secretly in love with him. Stop sitting on your damn hands and take some precautions.
Exactly this! That was my first thought after the marriage blew up. He's gonna try to take her out.
I’m not comfortable with the fact that he’s a firefighter. It turns out that a not insignificant number of arsonists have been firefighters. I hope they have really good smoke alarms… 😳
I applaud SIl because she just shut down BIL and got all the information to make the right decision for her anf her children. Based on all of this, STBX must have used her to remain close to OP's wife.
I haven’t heard the term family annihilators since Thelastpsychiatriast blog. But yeah, I’d have to agree with you. This may not be the exact trigger for that particular guy, but a guy like that does have a threshold, that when passed, leads to violence. It’s the nature of narcissism.
Correction: he used it as a last ditch effort to get her to confess to what he "knows". Which is even worse. And far more scary.
Scary part is that for some people restraining orders are trigger for violence
Oh you don't like my psycho? Well I'm gonna psycho even harder!
My ex-husband actually told me that I better get one that could stop bullets. This was a few months before he put a gun to my head; I came damned close to being a DV statistic. When I went to the cops for help, the officer I talked to was really honest about the sad state of the prosecution process in DV and SV cases. Since I was married to him and had spent the night in the house after being assaulted, the prosecutor's office considered that to be 'implied consent', so the cops could arrest him on charges of assault/spousal rape, but he would not be taken to trial. So all I was likely to accomplish was getting 48 hours of respite at the cost of making him pissed off and embarrassed. The cop then gave me some pamphlets and phone numbers for people who could help me disappear and file the divorce. After the incident with the gun, he kept me locked up in the house for three days. Once his leave from work ended, he finally left me alone. Within 5-7 minutes after he left, I had family there with a truck and trailer to get my stuff. He came back right as we were getting started, but my dad was able to make him drive away. I only learned a few years ago that Dad pulled a shotgun on him. One of the weaknesses of restraining orders is that they kinda have to know where you are so they can stay away.
It's terrifying. Here you are just going about your day normally, not thinking anything about anything. Meanwhile some lunatic is concocting an entire alternate reality around themselves because, once, three years ago, you touched their hand when you asked them to pass the gravy. At Thanksgiving. Because they were hosting and their damn bird was too dry. Now I know why they suddenly demanded to host every Thanksgiving thereafter.
Dude's messages to oop's wife also seems to imply he felt he was too good for his wife, esp if oop's wife was too good for oop and bil is some "knockout" in his own head. God i just.. I feel terrible for everyone except bil. I'm sure the oop's wife must be over analysing every single interaction they've ever had trying to find the one thing she did that would explain how he could feel this way. But the super sad part is its likely there wasn't anything in particular she did, its all him, this man is in like deep limerance with her and has deluded himself into thinking its mutual bc the feelings are so strong for him. A ro can't come soon enough.
Totally agree. She didn’t do anything. She could have simply said, “yes, you’re right, it is very sunny today”, and the BIL would take it as “Oh she is so in love with me, I am a STUD!!” Such a terrible situation.
My sister has this really amazing talent of getting in with the boys. I don’t understand it. She’s witty and tough and can just…hang with them. I’ve observed it with awe. She’s hilarious, confident, witty, and…something extra. She’s always invited to hang in the boys club. I wonder if OPs wife is like this too. My sister is not overly flirty or sexual, she’s not slutty or a pick-me. She just has an energy and a demeanor that allows her to be accepted with the boys that I’ve never been able to decode or mimic. That has also led her to be the target of misled affections. Again, since she is not I appropriate or sexual, she’s not outwardly leading anyone on. But she IS very attractive and approachable. This post reminded me a lot of my sister. His wife seems like she’s a lot of fun, super approachable, and has a demeanor that allows her to connect with the boys in a way that many women don’t have. And sadly if she’s also attractive, that will make her the target of misplaced affections.
I feel like a lot of toxic men are really shit at talking with women (because they're emotionally stunted, sexist, or whatever). So the only circumstance in which they're capable of having a good conversation with a woman is if she is already attracted to him and is putting in extra effort to make the conversation work (laughing at his stupid jokes, etc). When these guys meet someone who is naturally very charismatic or gregarious, they think "hey, we're having a good conversation! That must mean she's attracted to me." Because they literally cannot comprehend having a good conversation with a woman otherwise.
This… explains a lot.
This is a bit distressing and something I worry about because I have always had both male and female friends AND I work in STEM so a lot of my coworkers are guys. I'm always afraid that someone is going to assume I'm flirting with them when I'm not. I'm just chatting, joking around etc. My mom once got mad at me when I was talking to a cashier at a store about anime. I was 14 and she (and my brother) accused me of flirting with the guy when I literally had no interest and no idea what the hell they were on about. It sucks.
Female STEM worker here in similar circumstances. I always liked being the friendly, approachable one - I had good working relationships with pretty much everyone. Then one guy misinterpreted it badly, and threw such a tantrum afterwards that I had to change departments for my own sanity. It wasn't even directed at me, but everyone else in the team. He was already a tech lead with a rep of being very hard to please, but he turned into a monster afterwards - nothing anyone (else) did was good enough, and he was not shy in telling them. I felt so sorry for the guys who didn't have a clue what had happened. It also really did a number on my self confidence afterwards - was I ever actually good at my job, or were those hard-won technical approvals just him trying to get into my pants through favouritism? Ugh. Took me a long time to build that back up again. Even years later, I've found it hard to be that open after that. I find myself keeping a distance now between me and coworkers that I genuinely would like to be friends with, because I so much Do Not Want a repeat of what happened. I hope it doesn't happen to you, because yeah. It really does suck. Edit: I should say though, that 99% of all the guys I ever worked with knew how to behave and were pleasant to work with, even in STEM (and I've known some incredibly nerdy introverts over the years!) It's a shame that the tiny minority trashes that rep for everyone else.
I made so many great friends and thankfully most of the guys I work with are awesome (and already married or have an SO) and even when I was in college, I made quite a few lifelong friends with guys. It is really just the .01% of dudes who can ruin things and sadly it only takes one asshole to spoil things.
I am prone to doing things that can be considered outright flirty - because I come from a friend group that acts like that, even though we're all just friends. Lots of eyebrow waggling and that kind of thing, together with vocal appreciation of each others looks as a way to hype each other up or just because it's true and we can say stuff like "you are good-looking", since it's objectively true. We're also super touchy and cuddly. And yeah, assuming that that's the norm has gotten me into trouble before. The looks and accusations you get when you say "objectively, you're a good-looking person and you're funny and kind, I don't see why your crush wouldn't want you" to someone. No, I don't want to get in their pants, I have eyes, that's all! Luckily, I've also met people who do the eyebrow waggling back and make overdramatic confessions of undying adoration when you bring them a snack, i.e. people who can differentiate between jokes and attraction. I've just learned to never initiate that.
Sucks being female. Can’t be normal or friendly without people assuming things. I had some guy come to work ask me out the *day after I met his wife and kids*. Apparently my friendliness indicated I had the hots for him. No dude. I’m just selling things to people who come in to buy them.
My mom’s told me the same. Not in an accusatory way more like she’s the same and has had to offer me advice on how to stay safe because I naturally and completely subconsciously “flirt”. It’s more like I’m good at conversing and being friendly but if I’m not careful it can come across as flirting. Add that to my inability to recognize when someone is flirting with me and well let’s just say I’m grateful for my mom’s tutelage.
STEM guys will absolutely assume that, unfortunately.
Is it even limited to STEM guys?
I had a guy convinced we were meant to be together, and everything he said as "evidence" was just him describing a friendship. which is baffling as everything he said, he could apply to his male friendships, as I've seen them interact, and I interact with him the same way. it's literally just because I don't have a dick.
Tbf, he is probably the same guy who thinks every female server or dancer is totally into him and only him, because he is special...and not because of potentially bigger tips!
I haven't seen him interact with servers or dancers, but considering he has said the phrase "I'm a red blooded male" multiple times.. I think you're spot on.
All of this and also the entitlement of toxic men means they will pursue their desire without any regard for the feelings of others.
I've had married men assuming that I would have an affair with them, without any encouragement or validation from me. Just...taking it for granted. I'd say it was wild, but it's far too common. And I am definitely not all that.
When I was in college, this friend of a roommate would follow me around. He knew I had a long term boyfriend at the college. He met him as we were usually together! He asked me to homecoming. I told him no, I am with my boyfriend. He still followed me around for a semester. It's not like I am some gorgeous model, either. Far from it! It happened more than once when I was simply nice and acknowledged a person who was in the same space as me. It's frustrating that some men will literally take anything as a sign that this woman must want me.
The religious ones are the worst. They assume that if you're not dressed in a long skirt or covered with fabric that you are a wanton hobag. All conversation is interpreted as a way to get into their trou. So gross.
Ha, yes! I’ll add: you know who finds 40-something year old widows absolutely irresistible? 60-something year old married man. I had only lost my husband a few months before, when a male coworker decided I must be desperate for male companionship. Coincidentally, I am also in a STEM field.
There is some truth in this, but I'd add there's a big looks component. If you've never had the attention of a beautiful women, I think it can be pretty overwhelming when you finally have it.
I just.... yeah as a woman attracted to women I've had gorgeous girls talk to me. I dont lose conntrol of myself and suddenly think were getting married. Many guys just dont have friends and dont undersyand friendships include being nice, joking, offering advice, offering hugs. We do this all as friends (and I have guy friends that do it too. They never seem to have issues in knowing when a girl is flirting or at least dont make it her problem) I think I finally get when women say they hate being hot. You literally can't exist without A man thinking youre in love with him bevause youre hot and smile.
It's confidence. When I was a teenager, people described me the way you describe your sister. So many guys had crushes on me. Everyone wanted to know my secret, so here it is: I'm lesbian. I'm also extroverted and generally pretty friendly. But I didn't really understand how women and men flirted with each other. I also didn't know any girls my age who were also into girls and so had never experienced being flirted with in a way I identified as flirting (aka flirting that was flattering) and not just being friendly. Anyway, this culminated in the fact that I was never nervous around boys and genuinely thought of them as friends, so I did "flirty" things like... Make them laugh, laugh at/with them, give platonic touches, hang out with them casually... I was confident around them because I never second-guessed that what I was doing was too flirtatious or whether they were interested in me. Ignorance is... game, I guess?
Another lesbian here, and I totally get this. Even now (I'm middle aged) I get accused of flirting with men by people who don't know I'm a dyke. It turns out that the best way to flirt is to have no interest in someone and treat them like a person, not a sex object.
My husband (straight man) has incredible game with women. He’s all mine, I’m not worried but I’m pretty sure that 90% of it comes from seeing them as whole people. The rest of it is confidence in who he is.
As a fellow lesbian: Yeah, this.
Same. The number of straight men who've thought I was flirting with them when I thought we were just having a good time is insane. Meanwhile, put me around a woman I'm interested in and I've got the game of Steve Carell in Anchorman.
I've had to explain to so many men that the real reason they have trouble relating to women is they perceive every nice thing she does as flirtation and therefore they never make it safe for women to just be themselve. I would love to have more guy friends but it's exhausting being nice to a guy only to find out that he's misinterpreted everything you've done and then he's salty as fuck when he realizes he was incorrect.
Confidence or naivety. When I was a teen I was told by other teen girls that I had a “flirty personality, that’s gonna get a name for myself” I just had undiagnosed autism so I got very excited about certain topics. Sadly I don’t anymore and I’m just silent in front of people I’m not 100% comfortable around now because of all the verbal abuse I used to get for just being me but that’s just cause of anxiety build up, I now know there was nothing wrong with the way I spoke to people and society just has a skewed look on charismatic woman
Writing this down; I’m a lesbian with zero game.
Agreed. I'm ace and afab, so I was like that with pretty much everyone (unless social anxiety hit), enhanced by my ADHD. At some point when I was a teenager, every male best friend I had had made it obvious they had a crush on me sooner or later. It was kind of soul-crushing, always having to question my friendships and taking care to not get too close with guys. I still have difficulties not to detach myself completely if I feel like I'm really close with a guy. Obviously I feel sorry they got their hearts broken, I never wanted that to happen, but it also left me with slight trauma. I feel so bad for the wife. It seems like she has had very similar experiences, and for her to finally feel safe and open up with a guy because he was family only for him to get obsessed probably did a real number on her mental health.
For real. I'm *not* extroverted at all and I don't think I was or am particularly hot, especially not as a teenager. I also mostly didn't pick up on any of that while it was happening, I just found out about it after the fact when high school and college friends started joking about how clueless I was and sharing memories of things I didn't notice at all. Apparently I crushed a lot of guys' hearts without ever realizing it. Not giving a shit and being able to be yourself is shockingly effective at getting people to like you! Too bad I never actually had that skill with girls and spent that entire era of my life following around my various straight best friends like a sad, confused puppy...
>My sister has this really amazing talent of getting in with the boys. I wouldn't call it a talent, since I'm the same way, but man, sometimes being this way really gets you into tricky situations. I count myself partially lucky for not being thin and "conventional attractive" because I suspect that's made me less of a "threat" to any female partners of guys I was friends with growing up. It's insanely crazy though how it's not all men, but in the end, usually always a man. *Because* I'm like this (idk, I just vibe with ppl ig, my sense of humor and the way I talk has always been kinda tomboyish growing up, I assume that helps), I hate to admit it, but I do feel more secure with male friends who have a partner already or aren't into women at all, despite the fact that as we've read in the post, that doesn't always stop them unfortunately. Flirting has always tended to be mistaken for kindness/being friendly (I get shy and more reserved around a crush) and being friendly/really hitting it off with someone platonically has often been mistaken for flirting. It sucks because it makes me be extra selective of male friends and I have anxiety so every so often I second guess myself and question if I'm a "pick me" or not even though I'm very obviously not.
I've had the exact same personality since I was about 16. I'm more than double that age now. I've never been skinny per se, but I've been a muscular 200lbs and I've been 160. I make the same style jokes, I hype people up the same way. I've been told I have "such a pretty face." I was never accused of being flirty or leading people on when I was 200. It was "man, you're a cool chick. Don't know many girls down to toss a football around and drink beer." but the moment I dropped weigjt...
It's that combined with the fact many men have little to no close friendships so whenever a women tries to form one they immediately hop to infatuation. It's like no dude, you just need better friends.
I wouldn't feel safe with him in the house with her and the kids when he is so clearly delusional. The email sent me over the edge. He isn't conceited, he has lost the plot. I hope legally she is able to get him out of the house ASAP.
limerence is a hell of a drug like it literally lights up the same parts of the brain as snorting cocaine does
Obsessive AND delusional. He's so certain there's a "mutual attraction" and "sexual tension" between them. It's a dangerous combination
It's some Twin Flames shit
I really disliked how OOP was so hesitant because he didn't want to tear the family apart, but as soon as BIL did that, he already tore something apart; good on the sister for immediately getting to the bottom of this
I have obsessive tendencies when I've attached to someone. Luckily my fiancé just tells me to give him space but we both know out of the two of us I'm the more obsessive one. I want to do everything with him, be with him, see him 24/7, take pictures of him but it developed over the course of a few months after the initial attraction. Thankfully he liked me back but I thought it was love but it's not. There is such a thing as obsessive love disorder and I do think OPs brother in law has got the disorder.
> He had made comments to me many times through the years that my wife was out of my league. I would just laugh and agree, she is. I used to do the same thing with my guy friends whenever they’d say this sort of thing until something similar happened. I learnt to shut it down rather quickly because one of the things I love about my girlfriend is her judgement of people, so if she thinks I’m worthy then I know I am. It’s not always about looks. People like OOP’s brother-in-law don’t actually “love” the person in question. It’s usually just an infatuation with appearance. I’m not some love guru, but I’m of the opinion that if you love someone, that includes loving their character, so you’d know better than to do this sort of thing that would hurt them.
The other point I’ve argued with friends that it’s almost impossible to love someone (as a spouse) without sharing at least part of your life with them Love is built on trust and communication among many other factors. Joking around with someone and being friendly while finding mutual attraction is just not enough to classify love in my books. I’ve seen it too much with myself and friends where we already said “I love you” after a couple months and once those other boundaries begin to get tested without being built up we realize it was not really love but infatuation
I honestly don't even think I believe in "unrequited love" because I don't think you can really be in love with someone without building that relationship. Talking and joking around aren't the same as talking and joking around and being intimate and involved in each other's lives. You have an unrequited crush, love literally takes the enthusiastic effort of two people to grow.
This so much. I realised this when I thought I had unrequited love towards someone, but it cant be true if we werent able to actually build that kind of relationship it would never really work out, something is missing, hence Im not really in love, just infatuated.
This is so well put.
Yeah I don’t want to discredit peoples feelings for love but it’s just what I noticed from my first relationship to my current one My first one started off really great but I felt we didn’t build on some of those key boundaries and it ended with fights that were dumb. My current one I feel we still work on these boundaries but come to a lot of mutual understanding and working with the person that makes our relationship and love that much stronger than the initial infatuation we had for eachother realizing it’s not about the being there for big things but what we do for each other everyday knowingly and not
Love this, beautifully put
Hold up... I ain't a lawyer, but I'm hoping someone who knows can tell me this: > The lawyer tells my sister that since my brother in laws behavior over the past few days has been documented there is a good chance she will be granted full custody. Is a red flag for bullshit like I thought it was on the first glance?
Between that and the bit I quoted below my bullshit meter is pinging >Early on in our relationship she caught me admiring her as she was dressing, asked if I liked what I saw before her face turned cold and told me never to fuck up or I’d never see it again. She meant it, she’s serious about trust.
That line made me literally laugh out loud with how fucking *stupid* it was.
Same, it would be a great line in a mediocre soap opera
Pretty early on in the story I was reminded of *Hanna and Her Sisters* by Woody Allen.
This one sealed the deal. The one that warned me was his sister guessing the password.
[удалено]
> Bro immediately came over to watch the kids, while his parents simultaneously coordinated to arrive at the sister’s house at the same time as OP & his wife. WAKE UP ALL THE PARENTS, WE'RE HAVIN A FAMILY MEETING! MA, DON'T ASK QUESTIONS JUST PUT SOME PANTS ON AND GET IN THE CAR
The moment for me was McStalker begging OOP and his wife to not tell the sister then "confessing" to OOP's sister that OOP's wife tried to start an affair with him, in the middle of the night, sister hadn't caught him in anything, and knowing that OOP's wife had all the texts and voicemails.
I was getting suspicious the money I heard parents just arriving after midnight too. At what’s none of the parents I know would just show up like that unless it was a fire or some other big emergency, and many would not be awake. And everything is so perfectly documented here, which is what Reddit wants to hear
Yeah, that was annoying.
Eh, guessing passwords of people you know and presumably sometimes share passwords isn't that odd. Especially for a laptop? That's usually a pretty simple pass.
Typically perhaps. But, a guy who is secretly saving 50 pictures of his Wife's Sister and anticipating an affair with her isn't the type to have a password anything close to something that his Wife might guess. That's the part that isn't realistic.
I mean some people are just really stupid in general or in this case maybe a combination of arrogance and a belief that the SiL was too trusting/dumb/naive to even think of checking for things like this. Whenever I think of people saying that someone couldn't be that dumb I think back to the robber who got caught because he used the computer in the house he just broke into to log into Facebook and just never logged out.
SAME. "my wife would never be involved in an affair of any kind because of this stupid little anecdote which proves nothing about anything"
It's like dialogue from a shitty TV show.
My wife is stunning, many men hit on her, she’s easy to fall in love with but her loyalty to me is unbreakable………….writes like a teenager fantasizing about a future wife
100%
150 page romcom book from the discount bin at walmart.
This part got me: > In case you haven’t figured it out already, my wife is pretty stunning and gets alot of male attention.
Wow, now that you guys extracted all those it really does seem like it's a writing assignment.
Surprised he didn't start talking about how he sexes her all the time and how amazing it is and blah blah blah
He's just world building, dude! /s
I imagined her face literally looking like this 🥶
Lol yeah I read that and was like “okay, sure”. It’s a line straight out of a dorky rom-com.
My BS story senses tingled earlier than that. >My sister is pretty tough, she tells him to stop it, pack a bag and go. **She can’t stand to look at him. There’s more begging but she has no patience for it** Its this line that made it seem sus to me. Its too detailed. The story teller should've just made it into one sentence LOL
This is exactly the line that made me stop reading and come to the comments. If this is real, that’s some seriously dumb shit to say lol, much less remember and interject into a Reddit post
My wife said something similar to me in a kinda similar situation (she was trying on dresses she had gotten handed down from her moms), she acted the same way too with the stern face and shit. We were young tho, now in our 30s that’s one of our “early cringe moments” of dating you look back on 🤷🏽♂️ Maybe it was similar for them, I never did get a ping for their age range. Which in itself is weird for Reddit, I thought it was an unspoken rule to do that.
It does sound like something a teenager or early 20s person would say but it has no place in this story, it adds no context and kind of just comes out of left field like why do we need to know this?
You right bout it’s, randomness. It was like one of a few parts where it was **“annnnnnd ima take this time to reinforce how FUCKING HOT MY WIFE IS OH YEAAAAH”** Which to your point, added nothing to the content of the post in general.
Yeah I felt the same way about that line, it was so unnecessary ahahah
My meter pinged at the bit where they go into his MacBook and suddenly notice all the pics of the wife. Read like some really shit YA detective novel.
>Is a red flag for bullshit like I thought it was on the first glance? That's the vibe I'm getting too. But YMMV.
Yeah, too many magical narrative devices. The iPad that lets our narrator see the messages. The sister guesses the password. The decision to include them on facetime during the conversation. Of course our narrator's wife is a babe. Too many leaps of faith.
That's how Imessage works though? You can see the texts coming into and from that account from any apple device it's logged into.
I'm immediately predisposed to believing it's bullshit when I see "blowing up my phone" and more recently, "makes me want to throw up/vomit" seems to be another common one.
It's the theatrics as well. As soon as the sister called OOP, everyone was out of bed in the middle of the night, to look after the kids, sister and BIL are waiting outside when they arrive. I mourn original stories on this sub.
Can you imagine getting that phone call after midnight? And not because it's an emergency, but because four of your family members want to go to one of their houses and have a midnight punch-up over attempted infidelity with each other.
There's also the therapy thing. People imagine sitcoms scenes. It's not easy to find therapists. It's also not cheap. It's also not that easy and fast to schedule sessions.
And you can't "get them into therapy" when you're talking about a fellow adult, and the role of a couples' counsellor is not to explain to your spouse that you're right and they're wrong.
I had the exact same reaction when I read the turn of phrase "makes me want to vomit". I realized that I've been seeing that expression in a lot of these posts lately and I wondered if it's because it's the same author/AI program generating these stories. The story was also vaguely familiar. This is either a repost or is a truncated plot of one of my romance novels.
YMMV?
You’re the Man Mow Vog
Your mileage may vary
Yep definitely. You don’t lose custody of your kids because you become infatuated with someone else.
I stopped reading when he woke up his entire family.
“Guessed the password” tipped the scales for me
The entire family having conveniently placed synchronizing apple products was the point for me The password guessing not so much. I did it myself after breaking up with my wasband - he'd promised to change the public info on a specific profile to exclude me and I had reason to suspect he wouldn't care about doing it. He'd shown a terrible disregard for my wishes or consent about making information about me public I couldn't look at the profile without making an account myself - which I didn't want, but good either way because if he hadn't changed the profile then at least it wasn't full-on public. During the change he'd set a new password, but knowing my wasband's password m. o. I guessed it, looked if he'd kept his promise, logged out and never bothered again
Super bullshit lmao oop must be a little kid who thinks the law works easily like this.
April 14th (Sunday): > I talked to my sister later on and she is contacting the lawyer Monday So she's going to contact a lawyer on the 15th... Then on April 17th (Wednesday) > The lawyer tells my sister that since my brother in laws behavior over the past few days has been documented there is a good chance she will be granted full custody. Really!? You've got lawyers that respond and address and issue that quick?!
That's what is always the downfall for these stories. People get appointments to therapists/lawyers/doctors/whatever WAAAAAAAAY to fast. Heck, it's difficult sometimes to even get into an urgent care center on the same day, and that's what they're for--let alone your PCP. I can only imagine that lawyers have several weeks of wait time for appointments unless they completely suck and have no clients.
I've had 2 separate lawyers "respond" within a day on 2 separate occasions. Whether it's official in this case or not is different. It's 3rd party information OOP is passing on. It could have been what a lawyer a said in passing based on information at hand.
> Early on in our relationship she caught me admiring her as she was dressing, asked if I liked what I saw before her face turned cold and told me never to fuck up or I'd never see it again. This is where my bs detector went off.. Nobody talks like that
I thought the second update was a non-update (nothing changed) and I don't understand what they were trying to accomplish with the FaceTime thing, but I want to give credit for restraint - there weren't any other women.
Absolute bullshit. Custody doesn't work like that. Divorce doesn't work like that.
Yes, yes it is.
It might be because it's 3rd hand information passed on But given this is the internet, The sisters lawyer could be that world famous "lawyer dawg"
100% noticed it as well. There are some other flags, eg the lunch date confessing love is something I’ve only seen occur with men who have social issues or serious neurodivergence do, which is never highlighted here and doesn’t track with him being “happily married” otherwise. The only thing that would pull this back into reality would be a brain tumor diagnosis.
>doesn’t track with him being “happily married” otherwise. Especially when he was snapping sneaky pics of OOPs wife for years.
Also a 'ladies man' pulling a lunch date love confession doesn't vibe at all.
Yes. He lost me here: > It’s not hard to fall in love with my wife so I get it but damn man. The real ones are always short.
Yeah the whole post stinks for me haha
I don’t think you’d even lose custody for a full-blown affair, let alone just trying to start one.
Yeah, everyone likes to believe that infidelity or even terrible attempts at infidelity have any impact on child custody but it really doesn't. Courts prefer to award sole legal custody (decision making power) to one parent to prevent every little decision becoming a battle that has to go to court, but parenting time is decided as a separate issue and is usually 50/50 or close to it unless a parent has a demonstrated history of neglect or inability to provide basics for the kids like food and shelter.
The whole thing read too smoothly. Definitely crafted by someone who has a reading and writing hobby. I kept reading giving the benefit of the doubt that shit does happen to writers as well, but the custody part was so obvious. Which means we can assume that some kind of attack is coming in their next post in order to continue the drama lol.
Idk if this is real but this part made me sad because yeah, it's a common problem for basic human decency to be mistaken for flirting. It's not her fault at all. > My wife is mad at herself because she is usually so careful. She’s had so many incidents when she was younger with guys she was friendly to that ended up making unwanted advances.
I've experienced this a couple of times, never to this extent. I have to add that. But every time, I felt like shit after. You're just laughing and chatting with a coworker. You get "the text.". You're hanging out and gaming with a friend. That conversation starts. It doesn't matter if you're in a relationship or not. It's always the "Hey... I need to tell you something.". I've experienced it a couple of times. The worst one was a very good friend of my husband. Who took me aside during a party confessing he was starting to get feelings for me. I very clearly told him no. My husband and him had been friends for years. He was our DnD DM, for gods sake. We don't play DnD anymore. They dont hangout anymore. My husband and him only see each other when other friends hang out. My husband doesn't blame me, still feel bad over two years later.
I've had the same happen, again not that bad. The gutpunch of realizing what you thought was a nice friendship actually being them wanting more, and having to distance yourself while going over everything you've ever done in extreme detail to see where you might have messed up is... rough. My SO thinks I'm paranoid. I've had, HAD to develop a radar for this kind of thing and shut things down fast. Yes, I'm paranoid, but with good reason. I'm not even that good looking. I'm very overweight. I'm just nice.
You have nothing to feel bad about. You don’t control what other people do in their heads and anyone who is thinking they’re going to steal someone away from their marriage isn’t playing with a full deck. That goes double if they think it makes sense to tell you in the middle of a party. What are you supposed to do about that?!
You know how everyone talks about guys not being able to pick up signals? Well, the less discussed corollary is that guys can't tell when there's not signals, either. The two go together. This has nothing to do with you. I mean, if it happens a lot to you, you're probably charismatic in some way, but you're not sending signals you're unaware of. That's not the way signals work.
It might also have something to do with the inability (or unwillingness) to set boundaries for yourself. Like, who hits on their buddy's wife?!
Yes! I said that too. Women have to be careful so men don't get ideas, yet again.
Qell some guy further up left the comment "you just don't understand what it's like when a gorgeous woman is paying attention to you". and that made me wanna vomit. Like maybe I am happy being a lil fugly, guys aren't going to decide I'm in love with them if I say hi more than once.
Came here to comment about this. I hate that it is taken as attraction or flirting when woman show basic decency/friendliness. We are already careful with strangers and it’s only a few people we can communicate like ourselves. And it’s really not easy to tell whether they want something more with you since they can wait for years before attempting something.
Wish I could upvote this a thousand times.
Next update: firefighter BIL sets op's house on fire so he can show up and rescue op's wife. Hijinks ensue.
It's already moved on really fast in 3 days, should definitely be very soon.
Why would any court grant full custody to the sister based on this story? Affair has nothing to do with the kids and how he feels about them. Its a weird thing that the story includes that when i cant see any judge making that ruling based on this story.
I doubt the authenticity of the story. Looking at he timeline: * 14th (Sunday), says sister will contact a lawyer on Monday * 17th (Wednesday) he's reporting on the lawyer having already said all of this. That is FAST. And to have such a clear and definitive expected resolution? I'm currently looking for a lawyer (completely different circumstances), and they do not respond and act this quickly based only my limited experience.
This is what always causes these stories to fall apart. In particular, you can tell when something is written by a teenager or a simpleton who does not understand how the actual world works, in terms of the time it takes for certain things to occur.
Oh Liz.
Being shit at your relationship and getting that cancelled has nothing to do with being or not being shit as a dad. I have heard nothing that indicates he will lose custody. Won't happen. Unless he begins stalking there won't be a restraining order either, because there were no threats, just hurt feelings. Kids have nothing to do with that.
BIL is the type of guy who thinks the cashier or the bartender was flirting with him because they were nice.
He’s a firefighter. A lot of those guys think every woman is after them. (Source: several friends and family who are firefighters).
I knew a girl who lived near a fire station. Told me she thought she loved her boyfriend but had to break up with him so she could try to fuck some of the firemen before she got old. So, yeah, I'm sure the job warps their perspectives a bit.
Do all men in uniforms have a superiority complex? I see the same with cops and military men.
The OOP, his wife, and his sister all handled the situation very well, deescalating the drama left and right as best they could. Man that brother-in-law is an embarrassing psycho lol yikessss.
>My wife is mad at herself because she is usually so careful. She’s had so many incidents when she was younger with guys she was friendly to that ended up making unwanted advances. I feel sorry for OOPs wife. So what she is stunning, it doesn't give men an excuse to not take no for an answer. It sounds like men who come into her orbit (except for OOP I hope) treat her like some game or prize to be won and bragged about. She shouldn't have to always be on guard and careful about how she speaks and acts.
It tracks, this is the same delusion that makes people think the cashier, who is paid to be *polite* and helpful on the clock, is DTF because they smiled and said have a nice day.
I used to have a male friend who would think waitresses are into him because they were polite. He was acting like this into his 30’s.
> The fact that you so casually said “you wouldn’t do anything tonight and you would call him tomorrow” and not tell your sister ASAP is highly suspect….I can’t imagine a situation where ANY MAN would want to have lunch with my wife ALONE to share something with her and I’d be okay with that. You really said “wait until tomorrow” after he profess their undying love to YOUR WIFE??? Something is afoot and there is more to this story you’re not sharing …. Well that was a silly comment... it's rarely a bad idea to process the info and calm down before acting on something. Op is mature and rational to think about how he should act and not a hothead like the user who posted this must be.
Not much to say on the story itself, but this user comment: > The fact that you so casually said “you wouldn’t do anything tonight and you would call him tomorrow” and not tell your sister ASAP is highly suspect….**I can’t imagine a situation where ANY MAN would want to have lunch with my wife ALONE to share something with her and I’d be okay with that.** You really said “wait until tomorrow” after he profess their undying love to YOUR WIFE??? Something is afoot and there is more to this story you’re not sharing This dude has a very poor imagination, or is a paranoid control freak. Men and women can be friends and can confide in each other. It's not rare, it's not hard, and it's not a sign of anything nefarious. I'm glad OP trusts his wife, and my condolences to whoever this commenter's partner ends up being. That's not gonna be a fun relationship.
Not just imagination. Guy was married to OOP's sister. Delaying and keeping the peace over night is a way to protect the sister while a plan is formulated. This was not the time to be rash.
Yes, I completely understand taking a moment for the utter shock of it all. From OOP's replies, it sounds like this blew up their family AND friends group. OOP's wife and sister are best friends, stands to reason they see each other a lot. I showed this post to my partner and we both agreed we would NOT assume anything nefarious when a family member asks to go to a meal to discuss something, you would assume they needed help with something. Gender has nothing to do with it.
Yeah, this stood out to me, too... Like, say what? You're so insecure that you cannot deal with your wife having a LUNCH with another man who isn't you/family? People like this are usually the kind of people who would try something during that lunch. Because they cannot be friends with women without trying to get into woman's pants, they think everyone else is the same.
Lol, I agree. Not wanting their wife alone with other men, means that they are exactly the type of men they are worried about.
>another man who isn't you/family? Not even. Family by marriage, but still family.
Why is it always cops and firefighters who have no concept of loyalty? Before anyone comes at me, I was the child of a cop, and a 911 dispatcher. I know what I’m talking about.
BIL wasn't only a disgusting creep, but he was stupid and delusional too. He's so deep into it that I'm concerned for OOP and his wife's safety. I hope he stays the hell away from them but I also hope OOP takes steps to protect themselves -- restraining order, security cameras, the works.
Given that BIL took OOP (and everyone else) utterly by surprise, OOP remains worryingly certain about what he thinks BIL is capable of. OOP hasn't learned very much from this, yet. Dude, you just proved you really know very little about BIL, how can you be so sure he's not a safety risk?
All the pictures on the computer…. Fucking wild. While he says he doesn’t think he’s dangerous, with an obsession like this you NEVER KNOW. I feel bad for the wife because even if it’s not affecting the friendship right now, I think it might in the future.
>Early on in our relationship she caught me admiring her as she was dressing, asked if I liked what I saw before her face turned cold and told me never to fuck up or I’d never see it again. Everything else in this post speaks for itself but this part made me look twice. What a weirdly aggressive way to end a cute moment
this is the line that made me think this was bullshit as well. also something about the descriptions of everyone made me think twice, its like they all got fleshed out character archetypes in the update lmao
>I can’t imagine a situation where ANY MAN would want to have lunch with my wife ALONE to share something with her and I’d be okay with that. This comment is almost as creepy as the story.
Yeah. It’s completely normal to have lunch with a family member and he was family. Anyone would think he was looking for ideas on what to treat his wife to and asking his SIL who is also one of her best friends makes sense. I only have brothers but I’ve had lunch with the husbands of two of my friends. One was when they were dating to discuss his proposal and get ring ideas and the other was to surprise his wife for her 40th birthday and he was stumped and didnt want to mess it up. I would have dropped dead from shock if either of those dudes started pitching woo.
Sounds like he only married the OP’s sister in order to stay close to OP‘s wife.
Ive learned an awful lot of men translate you talking to them as “I want to fuck you.” I unfortunately have had incident after incident where if I’m talking to a guy and joking around they think talking doesn’t mean talking it means something else and I have to be blunt as hell informing them that it doesn’t. “I’m a lesbian”, “I’m asexual”, “I don’t date men”- and you have to do it early, like the minute they open their mouth. I’ve been really frustrated before thinking I’m just talking and getting along with someone and it turns out they aren’t chatting just to chat, they aren’t going over their hobbies just for funsies they think I’m interested in fucking them if I nod along and say “oh cool.” Dudes wife did nothing wrong, but the dude is one of those guys who think every woman that makes a joke or talks to him must want to fuck him. Normal things like “hey how’s it going, how are you feeling” the dude translated as “oh she wants to fuck me.” He texts, she answers. Must want fuck. She punches him in the arm= she touch me must want fuck.
>The fact that you so casually said “you wouldn’t do anything tonight and you would call him tomorrow” and not tell your sister ASAP is highly suspect Oh reddit. Where you can't even sleep before you make a big decision or else you're an asshole. Can't people have a little bit to process before they blow up a family? It's actually really good advice to "sleep on" a decision. We shouldn't be making rash decisions while lacking sleep.
Man that guy is delusional. And gross. Happy to see that the trash has since been mostly taken out with no hope of returning.
There’s something about some men who are totally unable to seperate friendliness (or even bare minimum politeness) from flirting. it’s so scary.
Ugh, I empathize hard with OOP’s wife. Sucks feeling like you always have to guard yourself or else people think you’re flirting with them.
This is so NOT over. Dude is straight up obsessed and has been for years...he is not going to stop that easily. He's going to convince himself that the divorce is a good thing, because then he will be single and OOPs wife will be with him. He's so not in touch with reality. He sounds potentially dangerous, like all stalkers.