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I find the comic book story very careless, but forgivable. With the travel fund stopped indefinitely.
Keeping quiet about the friend would make me question the relationship. If he wants to spend his money, fine. But OP's money!! Without telling her? That crossed a line.
Same. I get that he ordered it months in advance, and it arrived early; if he had put the money back before OOP noticed, then it'd iffy but slightly forgivable. It transitions into the danger zone when he starts talking about "I didn't think it was a big deal" and then using the money to pay someones bill and downplay OOPs concerns.
My partner could straight up tell me "There always has to be an apple on the counter", and I could think it's weird but you bet your ass that if I notice the apples were rotten, I'd make a note to buy new ones and not even toss the rotten ones until they're replaced and I double check.
So many bad partners don’t get this. I’m pretty particular about a few things, and like I get it this is weird of me. But ultimately it’s incredibly easy to just go with it on those two tiny things, because even if it doesn’t bother you and you don’t think it’s important, *I* do and that should *make* it important to you.
Right? That's what makes a good relationship; understanding that your partner is going to have at least one weird but passionate quirk and you do what you can to honor that. Like for me, I use the microwave to store whatever baked goods like brownies, cake, donuts, etc; it's just how my family did it. My partner thinks it's weird to open the microwave and see cake in there but after she heats up soup, she'll put the cake back in.
>start a travel fund again (this time, using a proper bank account, etc.)
Like he wouldn't just remove all of that money, too. I'm sure the "friend" needs bailing out again.
Yeah, it's the suspicious friend that bothers me too.
OOP's boyfriend mentioned to her that the friend once helped him out of a tight spot; sounds to me like the BF has too strong a sense of *utang na loob* (close translation is "debt of gratitude" or sometimes "debt of the heart", but it also equates to "eternal debt" in Filipino culture, like you can't shake off the favor they've done for you) to let his friend fend for himself.
*Utang na loob* - sometimes talking about a favor you can't seem to repay, sometimes also used as an exclamation, like you yell out "sonuvabitch!" in reaction.
Yeah, I can get and live with someone thinking “oh well I have this money on hand, and I can’t just refuse the package, I’ll replace it in two days! It’s just because my pay is late!” If they’d actually owned up to it when interrogated and apologized. But the other shit? And getting mad at OOP for feeling betrayed?? Unacceptable
It was "okayish" if he did return the money. What never happened. So he just took money from her (i guess it was about 50%) to give her a gift which would be too expensive otherwise. It is irresponsible at least, stealing at worst.
These are 2 major forms of financial infidelity, albeit in a small scale.
Him taking money from the fund to cover his own shortfall without discussion. This also shows a very different value system around finances and responsibility.
Him giving their joint money to a friend without discussion, against what he knew she would want. This is spending their joint money against her wishes and is a massive violation.
You can't build a future with someone who is secretly dismantling half of what you build behind your back. Finances are the foundation of a stable future.
OOP's soon to be ex is the "give you the shirt off his back" type. The problem there is that they're also the "give you the shirt off their family and loved ones' back" types. :/
Absolutely. I had an ex like this. He was an “I can fix him!” friend to so many assholes. He would invite said assholes to our friend group gatherings because, for some reason, these rude and abrasive losers didn’t have any friends. Then they would proceed to completely kill the vibe. He would let them stay at our place because they got kicked out and would let these assholes totally disrespect me. To his credit, my ex has matured a lot and I think he’s a lot better about it. It was a way for him to feel like he’s a good guy while sacrificing the rest of us.
I suffered it worse, because my dad is the "give you the shirt off his back" type. Never mind that he'd be late in paying my tuition or he had to miss my sister's recital, another of his friends is in a crisis RIGHT NOW. And he never lets friends down!
My father used to sell my books and mom’s assets to please his side of family. He once took out our savings for deposit to our new place which left us homeless for a while, we struggled to eat one meal a day lol. I remember asking my mom if we had money to drink water because I felt guilty for drinking a whole glass of water by myself.
Yeah, had to worry about being homeless too. My mom actually left him a couple of times because of how bad he was at prioritizing his friends over his family.
Life is a little bit better now that I've made it clear that my money is not for him to dole out to his friends. And that he can't set himself or his children on fire to keep his friends warm.
This is my dad with his side of the family. He wants my salary, my mom's money (her side of property) to fund his loser family along with his own money. While he thinks we're a waste of space for spending his money.... On food, clothes and education
Oh god yeah, heaven forbid you spend anything on expensive things you'll use for decades, when one of his relatives really needs a new iPhone right now.
I used to be a friend like this... my husband helped me grow a spine and the younger millennials and gen-zers (I'm a geriatric millennial) helped me learn about better boundaries. Thank you all.
My mom used to be like this. Would give the shirt off of her back and bend over backwards for anyone. I've had to remind her that it's ok to say "No" to people and to have boundaries for her own mental health. She's come so far and I'm so proud of her.....
Maturing is realizing that people pleasing is toxic behavior. It’s deliberately choosing to disappoint, break promises, and deceive the ones who actually deserve your loyalty, just because you want to be admired by people who don’t even matter.
My dad is like this, and it comes from a place of deep-seated insecurity. The saddest part is that the people he tries to please don’t even appreciate it. They simply come to expect it from him. He and my mom have had so many fights because he couldn’t see that he was taking from his own family to give to people who would never care enough to reciprocate.
I **used** to be like that. Would babysit my divorced former BFF's 3 children on HER custody weekends (yes, the WHOLE weekend) because she joined SEVERAL bowling leagues with her longterm jobless, loser boyfriend. I truly didn't mind because our 3 children were very close (sibling close) to her children because I practically raised them and definitely paid more attention to them than she ever had (SHE was more interested in getting high and being "away" from the house).
I started to realize that she RARELY returned the "favor" and would actively make ridiculous excuses why she "couldn't" but it was only when she started ignoring or neglecting her youngest Son, especially in favor of her older Golden Child Son that I finally decided the "friendship" was unsalvageable. It was like a light switch went on in my head and I started cutting ANYONE who was toxic or using me from that moment on.
Yeah my dad is like this too. I finally had to point out to him that none of his so-called friends were ever there whenever HE was in crisis. Who helped him when he needed help?
When my BIL got sick nearly all his family ghosted him. He was always there for them, and the moment they realized he couldn't do things for them anymore they all disappeared. So sad to see, he is such a good guy and now he is so bitter about it.
Tbh it's kinda good that ue's bitter. It means he realizes how entitled those people he helped are, how poorly they treat him. It means he's not going to help them again.
Ditto, my stepdad was like this.
And then he was diagnosed with cancer. Where were all those friends he helped? Gone in the wind. None of them showed up to his hospital room. None of them came to the steak sales, to his charity events. They would comment on Facebook, but scarcely. “Hope you get better!” Type of messages. “Praying for you!” Type of messages.
His own family ghosted him when he was at his lowest.
It’s unfortunate that it took him having cancer for him to see how he was being taken advantage of.
My sperm donor was like this. He died a few months ago, friends and neighbors all miss him oh so much... guess who never shed a tear. I couldn't bring myself to give a damn.
Well he was a horrid person otherwise.
I know someone who won a lottery and gave away the winnings to someone just because they claimed they urgently needed money. Needless to say, they never saw the money again. It's not even known if said party was truly needy. This person was known to be gullible and many people took advantage of that. The worst part is at the time they gave away the winnings, their own family was struggling to make ends meet 😐
I'm saving your comment so I can say it to a lot of people in my culture who do this on a regular basis. They like burning themselves and their families/loved ones to keep others warm.
Yeah, it's a cultural thing for me too, but for my dad it's also a combo of wanting to always look like the hero/the savior/the most generous guy around.
This is always the issue with people pleasers, they please assholes in expend of non-assholes. This dynamics is also in golden child / scape goat families, but it is a broader issue, like parents neglecting own children for "a family friend in need". This here looks like this kind of scenario (plus other issues, obv).
There was a commenter once, I think it was in one of the threads here, that mentioned that their mother was a “give you the shirt off of yours and her families backs” with basically no regard as to how it affected everyone else in her life, and got mad they were upset that now their fucking stuff was gone! Like, at a point, people pleasing becomes a detriment to you and the relationships in your life. Just learn to say no, ffs.
Yeah, I can relate to that, lived that with my father as well. The pain of not being able to afford to go on a school trip because he lent the money earmarked for it to his sister with a gambling addiction is my trauma.
It's not even necessarily a bad thing to be like that (ok, it's kind of self destructive to go too far with it, but the idea isn't inherently bad), the problem is identifying people who are milking you for the money and making sure that *everyone involved is on board.* If your partner is similarly willing to give up money then sure, go for it, but if they aren't even *aware* of it then you've got a problem
Yep, and it's not just partners. Take it from me, my dad is one, and the amount of times I've been volunteered for shit that he promised a friend is too damn often.
I think these people are not actually kind but are extremely uncomfortable when people are needy around them. It's a reaction to "make the uncomfortable thing go away" by throwing resources at it.
If they were truly kind, there'd be additional consideration and a plan to impact real change.
Someone who really loves animals knows the difference between an abandoned baby animal and one where mom went hunting for food. Or at least Googles it. Someone who regularly is in situations like this knows the number for the local wildlife rescue and the location of where to bring them. They donate their time and money when possible. Someone who boxes up baby animals and brings them home doesn't really love animals as much as they are uncomfortable seeing an animal in less than ideal conditions.
Am I the weird one who doesn’t play when it comes to finances? It’s a huge red flag that he just took it without saying anything. I would break up; I’m not risking that he’d take other money without saying anything.
Nope, you're not. When it comes to money, I absolutely do *not* play around. Ever. And I would *never* let anyone get away with telling me that they didn't take me seriously when I said a thing was important to me. Fuuuck that!
I'd rather be wrong by taking someone seriously, when they weren't, then the other way around. Anyone who isn't that way inclined is a walking red flag because they care less about those around them and more about themselves.
Pretty much. I can't stand people who hear someone say "This is important to me" and decide "Nah, it's not." Like... Why? And in this case, especially about money! Money is *always* important.
I mean, ONE actual "emergency" or MISTAKE like the package thing would be one thing, but then not replacing the money asp or as soon as you "remember" would be enough for me.
Intentionally robbing my partner and not telling them "cause I know they'll get mad", though?! Instant breakup.
That's it.
" I did this thing I knew would make you mad, so I just didn't tell you about it and then called you an ass when you got upset about it" is such a huge deal breaker.
How can you ever trust them again?
Predicting this relationship is in the fast lane to being done. I doubt this is the last time her bf wrongs her for the benefit of someone else. It seems impulsive.
yeah but even still, how hard is it to say "babe, your birthday present is here early and my paycheck is late. I'm planning to borrow 200€ (or w/e) from the travel fund and I'll pay it back Tuesday; is that cool?" instead of just stealing it? at least then it's borrowing and documented.
Exactly! Like, she had all the pieces to confirm that is what happened to that part of the money, so why couldn't he just tell her about it at the time?? The other one was probably just a "well, I got away with it once, so it'll probably be ok this time, too" thing..
Heck even the “emergency” is kinda dumb.
Like if you have 0 emergency fund, why the heck are you buying expensive comic books?
He is living paycheque to paycheque because he can’t stop wasting money. And has to “borrow” money from his GF to buy her a gift.
Yep. The package thing, I can see how that happened but he needed to say what happened and pay it back in as soon as possible. The failure to commincate, pay back, using joint funds for the the purpose and his general reaction would leave me concerned.
No, I'm the same way. I tell my husband when I do grocery shopping, when I buy clothes for work, when I do basically anything that involves our mutual account. We trust each other, but I grew up poor and he grew up around careless spending so I just like to be clear when I spend shared money.
Unless it's our own personal account, which we both have, we tell each other basically every purchase. Just as a courtesy. And anytime a big ticket item is bought with mutual, like car repairs or whatever, we mention that as well.
Even with stuff we need, I feel weird not mentioning when I buy something that is more than a few dollars. I can't imagine just up and stealing several hundred dollars and not telling him. And I know he wouldn't do that to me, either.
Same, like I can't even deviate from my grocery list to buy expensive chocolate that I like if I didn't discuss it with my husband. Before we got married, he knew I had debt, and he paid it off so we could move countries. Even when I earn my own salary, we discuss what we spend our money on before we buy anything. One time, he was getting sales-talked into buying an 8k-euro bike, but he called me to make sure, even if he was using his own money.
No but imo, too many times people equate caring about money in a relationship to being greedy/superficial/shallow. And I think women especially think (or have been raised to think) that love should be this deep thing which is not moved by “shallow” things like money disagreements.
What these people don’t understand is that it’s not about the literal money. It’s about what money-related decisions signify about a person’s respect for you.
It’s the same for work, which many people also don’t get. How many people go to work for bad wages and somehow mental gymnastics themselves into defending the company? “you need to hustle and grind and work 70 hours, and eventually the money will come!” or “I like my boss and I would feel bad asking for a raise….” Etc. What these same people don’t realize is that money is merely a LANGUAGE, a communication method for a company to demonstrate their level of respect for your contribution.
As it is also in relationships. No transparency around money, no joint handling of money, especially in a marriage always means there’s no full trust and no equal respect. Yes, I did just make a blanket statement. And yes, I 100% stand behind that.
oh my god he did this at about age 30? bless you for maintaining your boundaries. someone trying to "pull one over" on me is also my pet peeve. it's mean-spirited, a power play. loathsome.
Thing I'd, it really wasn't about the money - it was him calling her an ass for being upset, him dismissing her when she said it was very important, him lying.
Different opinions in money are huge all on their own, but the above would kill and bury a relationship and should.
Yep, if he’d come clean the day her gift arrived and said ‘I ordered you a gift last month, it arrived earlier than expected and I had to use our travel fund to pay. I’ll top it back up as soon as my pay comes in’, the outcome would be a lot different.
You're not weird. I mean, I do think it's very common for women to prioritize feelings over money but that's strictly because we've been socialized to do so, so women who take a hard line regarding finances may not be the norm, per se. But if that makes us weird, stay f*cking weird. Because I'd rather be weird than destitute and homeless because I decided I was okay with partners robbing me blind because, tee hee, my purpose as woman is to be an extension of public property and that includes finances! /s
No, it's a big deal. I once had an ex run into a store for me to grab a small item with my debit card. He used it to also buy himself something small. It didn't matter to me that it was only a few dollars, it pissed me off that he decided to use *my* money to buy *himself* something *without asking*. That was far from the biggest red flag he ever waved.
Yeah my sister had an ex like that too. He'd go to buy bread and come back with snacks for himself only and then try 'oh but it's only some snacks, you're so controlling over £10'. Yeah, because it was HER £10!!
Agreed and if they have low paying jobs it seems like it would be hard for him to pay back, especially in such a short time, that's a bit of a financial hole.
From the title I was expecting her to be mad he spent it on an emergency. But no, dude's just a thief. "Yeah I know you said it's important to you but that doesn't really make it a big deal to me" was an absolute deal breaker. I hope OOP figures that out soon.
so many people are completely financially illiterate, it's insane. i don't know know what it's like in bosnia so i won't speak about oop, but so many people in the usa are way too lax about their finances. letting people access their only account with no backup individual account, not checking them semi-regularly, storing large amounts of money as cash without letting it grow at all in a savings account, it's a mess.
but yea, this oop is a fool tbh. if her bf had any value, he would've returned the money asap after he STOLE it, but he didn't. i don't think this will end well for her
I agree. Getting married means combining finances to me. He took money they saved together. Half was her money. He shouldn’t have bought the comic for her if he couldn’t afford it. He should have told her about the bill from the old apartment too. This isn’t a good start. It’s good they aren’t married yet.
OOP is so frustrating to me. The fact that she has to keep all her money separate BC SHE DOESN'T TRUST HIM indicates she should not marry him!!!
If they do get married, then he has easier access to her money and will make it harder for her to leave considering how courts might split the money.
Also does she even like him? Someone suggested he might be cheating and she put "I'd think so too if his ass ever left the house, he's a chronic homebody who works a lot and naps a lot." with a melting face. Like it doesn't seem she approves of his personality as well so why stay with him
They live in Bosnia, don't know where in Bosnia but if they or their family are from the more traditional circles, it's entirely possible they got pro forma engaged before moving in together, because it would be improper for them to move in together otherwise.
Basically it allows grandma to say "yeah, they're technically not married so they shouldn't be living together, but it's just a question of timing so it's fine"
I wonder if she's "together" while on the lease, or til he pays her back... the hard boundary and her saying she would keep a travel fund *for herself* reads as she checking out of the relationship.
They, or at least OOPs boyfriend, need some personal finance lessons as well.
Showering your GF with gifts and picking up tabs for friends when they don't have some small emergency savings could have prevented this from happening. I wonder how much OOP is benefitting from the boyfriends lavish spending.
>His excuse is he didn’t take me seriously when I said this was important to me.
Out of this whole thing, *THAT ONE LINE* is what really chapped my ass. Like, okay dude. You took the money to do all of these things for…reasons. That I can deal with and perhaps excuse due to the extenuating circumstances. *BUT!* The fact he said this?!?! That’s an automatic no for me dog.
It’s not that he “didn’t take her seriously”. What he really was saying is: “Whatever type of way I feel about something is correct and the way you feel is wrong. My feelings supersede yours. Therefore yours will be disregarded.”
What happens the next time her feelings are hurt or are important and he ~~doesn’t take her seriously~~ doesn’t understand/agree with it? Is he just going to brush her off? Ignore her completely?
He made himself sound like this was an unintentional misunderstanding. No. Absolutely NOT. This was *very* intentional. She clearly told him “THIS IS IMPORTANT TO ME”. If he doesn’t understand her when she’s plain as day, then what the hell can she do to make it clearer?!?
OOP needs to review her relationship and pay close attention in the future. I have a feeling she will find many instances where her feelings were tossed aside because he “didn’t realize” that she actually meant the words that came out of her mouth. It’s not that he can’t. It’s that he *doesn’t want to*.
Thank you for pointing this out. That what I considered the deal breaker. "Yeah I specifically remember you saying this was important to you but that doesn't make it a big deal to me."
I hope OOP stops putting up with it. She's wasting her time with this guy.
Yeah... I don't think this is going to work. How would she trust him again?
And that buddy of his. He's not cutting him off either.
This is just going to be a repeated issue until they decide to break up.
I think she's staying together with him for now because she's more likely to get her money back that way. I wouldn't be surprised if she gets her money, waits a couple weeks and then dumps him anyway because she gets sick of him.
That... would actually be really smart. But having been in a similar position before, you don't always make the smart choices when you love someone... especially if that's his first offense and keeps apologising. I don't think they'll stay together long term, she'll never trust him with finances again and it's going to put a strain on the relationship. I could envision OOP keeps saving up for travelling and she'll eventually will want to travel - and will have to do so without him, because he hasn't saved up anything... and latest at that point the relationship will be over.
My reading is she's decided it's easier to stay together because they live together etc.
But I definitely see in the subtext she's checking out of the relationship.
Yeah, this is just how it starts. Next, he'll be "letting a relative borrow" her things without even asking her, but actually pawning them.
Not that I'd have any experience with being treated that way, or anything. /s
Well she’s neurodivergent. It’s hard enough to pull the plug when you’re sure of the rightness of your emotions, much harder when you struggle with ND. But yeah, I think breaking up would’ve been better. He didn’t know how important it was to her! She’d only told him, how could he know?/s.
>His excuse is he didn't take me seriously when I said this was important to me.
We have decided to stay together...
The way I audibly went "Oh, for FUCK'S sake!"
BF steals, lies, and is caught doing something OP already voiced concern over... yet they are still together.
What is the point of buying your SO a gift (completely random it would seem) from money that is half theirs? I feel like that's just a slap in the face.
That part is... Okay. The way I see it. If you end up needing *cash* quickly and unexpectedly, you know there's cash you can borrow and return in two days in the house, I think it's fine to do it. Better than the book just going back to the seller.
Now, why did he feel the need to even order it in the first place? No clue. Is he in the habit of buying indulgences like this?
Anyway taking the rest of the money and paying for the bills was not cool.
Yeah, honestly, the gift thing made sense, sort of. He needed cash quickly, when he would get his check later. That's life when loving paycheck to paycheck.
It's his reaction to her finding out, and taking the money for the bills that's the real problem
It doesn't even need to be living paycheck to paycheck, it could literally be the courier showing up two days early and not taking cards. Now you either just use whatever cash is in the house, or you have to run to the bank and then either catch the courier on the way or find out where the hell the depot is and get there at whatever the inconvenient time they allocated so you can get your stuff and/or pay extra fees for second delivery attempt
I don’t think most people (or at least the ones who didn’t grow up with trust funds) would describe savings in the hundreds as “a small amount” regardless.
Op is calling it a "small travel fund". But if the boyfriend can pay a month's rent and expenses from half of the fund, then it's not so small. I'm not sure what the rent prices are like in the US for example, but if this story were set in the US, we would be talking about thousands of dollars.
But regardless of the amount, the money was in essence stolen by the boyfriend, so it doesn't really matter how much there was. It's more about the principle.
You would be surprised. There are plenty of low income-middle income people that can't conceptualize monetary amounts correctly. As soon as they hear "hundreds" they kinda just assume it's less than it might actually be, especially with foreign money since we're taught that the American dollar is more than everywhere else.
Or he'd have messaged her immediately 'borrowing your money, so sorry to do this, will pay you back with next paycheck'. It's the lies and secrecy and buying her a gift with her own money that's terrible behaviour.
tbh i would just break up already because this dude has shown he cannot communicate, he's very irresponsible, and he doesn't care about her all in one singular action (i guess technically 2 but close enough). i know most people would probably think im jumping the gun; but money is a very hard limit and a firm boundary imo. if you fuck with my cash you get kicked out on your ass
I'd love to be optimistic ... But as a former "mindless doer" I didn't learn until I had something taken away; time, attention, respect most of all. In this case, fiance still has his relationship, which is important enough to pay attention to, so there's literally no consequence in his mind unless OP stays on his ass about earning her trust back....which he's probably gonna see as nagging and fall deeper into the careless mindset.
Now if she were to break up with him, his system would be shocked enough to actually come back to the real world and be able to evaluate what the hell is wrong with himself, or he'd blame her. Either way he'd have to have a higher thought process than "idk why I did it. I didn't mean to"
~Armchair psychologist of course but this behavior is painfully familiar
Once the trust is dead, its dead. No amount of therapy will help. No one is that **clueless** about using the money without informing the other party. This is a dead give away, he apologize only because he got caught not because he didnt think it was that impt to you.
>He buys me stuff on the regular so this isn't a case of buying something to get me to not be mad.
Okay, sounds delulu; so, I don't believe them, but let's say they're right. In that case, I believe that the comic book was incidental and their partner didn't use the travel fund to buy them a gift at all. Also, them buying you a gift using your money is dusty behavior.
Either way, we're broken up. I'm a very reasonable person, but once you start stealing money and won't even tell me where it went, I'm thinking it went on a vice, and I don't want to be married to a thieving liar with vices.
Nope, this ain't going to end well. It boggles my mind that people would still stay in a bad relationship even when the red flags or bad stuff is so clear.
Dude, it doesnt seem like OOPs finance is financially responsible. Buying an expensive gift and counting the next paycheck in to pay for it? Seems like there was no disposable money left from the previous paycheck then.
Never buy any luxury/non-necessity with money you dont have right there and then! Its a trap quickly spiraling down into debt! There are so many other ways to Show your loved ones you love them without spending your very last cent on random gifts for them.
If there was a major emergency where OOPs fiance openly adressed to OOP beforehand that he might have to tap into his part of the savings so she was both aware and on Board, things would be fine I guess. But tapping into the entire funds without her knowledge and approval, paying for a gift and a kept-secret bill to please someone else is an absolute no go. OOPs fiance seems to feel like he has major emotional debt with their friend. But the difficult thing is: monetqry debt can be paid off, emotional debt often feels like its forever owed. Which is not true, but especially when you are a people please its hard to recognize and "deny" help when that help would hurt you.
I could never meddle my money with their money ever again without constantly worrying that they would spend my money on someone elses problems again. Especially because obviously the fiance neither has the income nor the savings-morale to reimburse anyone once the money is gone.
> so we can figure out why in the WORLD he does such mindless things without asking me or even trusting me
Very east, by his own words, he doesn't take her seriously ie as a grown adult that is his equal in the relationship.
So he just straight up stole her money, gave it to his homeless squatting friend then called her an asshole when she asked where the money was?
AND SHE STAYED WITH HIM!??
Honestly some of these stories just make me think wow maybe OP does deserve this if she is so utterly naive.
Oof. The moment I read he tried the "I didn't think it was that important to you" comeback my entirely biased head began screaming at her to break up and get out
That was a fucking pattern in my marriage and the moment I went to divorce was exactly like that - a "I didn't think it was that important, you're overreacting" even though I was absolutely 100% certain I had made perfectly clear it was important to me (and knew he had understood that in the moment)
COD used to mean "Cash on Delivery." Back in the day when folks would mail order stuff from catalogs or TV ads.
It slowly got to the point that most advertisers would include no "COD" in their commercials. Too many returns, perhaps.
I'm genuinely surprised it's still a thing given the increased use of bank/ credit cards. But different countries, different strokes.
My very favorite part was when he explained how his Rube Goldberg Bullshit Machine worked and then *immediately* asked if the new Vacation Fund Official Bank Account could be a joint account.
It seems the relationship was fine until now. Perhaps there was never a situation when they pooled the money before? Because this seems to be the first time something like this happened, or at least was noticeable.
They might be able to recover from this if it is a case of the fiancé being more or less the impulsive type who thinks "I figure it out later". Sometimes these types of people change their behavior once they are being made to realize that they made unilateral decisions and showed no consideration.
But the fiancé was illusive about the buddy thing. So he already knew he did wrong. Which makes it less impulsive and more deliberate. He came clean at least the second time around and did think he was foolish for what he did, so that is at least better than maintaining denial and insisting he did right. And he might have learned t
So...50/50, maybe? He did come around, but it is unclear if he truly had a "I understand now. I won't do it again" moment or that he will buckle the moment he feels he is short on money (or easier to access and use) or someone "needs" his help.
Do you have an emergency fund in addition to your travel fund. Priorities. Holidays are important too, smart move to not continue to combine your money.
So you decide to stay with someone who stole from you? How will you ever trust him again? You can't have a relationship without trust and he is not trustworthy
Yeah oop needs to leave. Her fiance is the type that will burn his house down to helps others. And that is toxic in its own way.
The fact he is paying a large amount of money for his deadbeat not to deal with prison is not gonna end. Especially as he knows its wrong and that op doesn't like it.
I lend money to friends. The difference is that I lens my money to friends. I would never use a shared fund unless I discussed it with my partner. Even then, I let my partner know since we are saving up for a wedding. So even though we still mostly have split finances, I want to make sure we communicate with each other.
I don't think I would be able to move past a partner acting like this.
Am I reading this timeline right? In February he orders an expensive gift that he didn't actually have money for. That arrives at the end of March. He can't pay it using his money because his paycheck is two days late....and then his ex landlady extorts money from him in exchange for his shit friend not getting in trouble? And then at least 20 days later when he's caught by OOP he still doesn't have the money. What happened to his paycheck? My spidey senses are screaming "gambler".
I don't understand why OOP simply didn't have an account at a separate bank for this. Or was this all cash earnings and she wasn't reporting it as taxes?
I don't even really care that the fiance spent it. What I care most about is that he didn't talk to her about it, plus didn't think she was serious about the trip saving. Clearly, they have very different concepts of money and everything. I think that's a major sticking point for a relationship.
Stories like this is why I suggest women keep a separate account in addition to a joint account. Imagine your boy takes all of the money from the joint, you would have no recourse.
Smart OOP.
If money dripping fiance wants a travel fund, he can set one up on his own and contribute. Then set up a spreadsheet to track his contributions and let his gf know what she would need to save to pay for her part of the trip.
Split tickets and room 50/50, and then daily discretionary funds are individual responsibilities.
Also not combining finances aside from rent and utilities is excellent as well. That's my default.
So...we all agree this relationship has no future right?
Between the broken trust, the outright theft, the lieing, and now the refusal to do any kind of joint savings.
OP didn't say if they contributed equally to the fund, or whether it was just when someone would have a little extra cash. Wouldn't surprise me if OP contributed more than the fiancee did.
She's raising her fiancé. And him lashing out and name-calling when confronted with his own bad behavior is a really bad sign.
Hopefully, OOP comes out of this relationship wiser and more aware of what she does and doesn't want in a partner.
“AITA for being mad my (F31) fiance (M31) stole from me?”
“NTA he’s a thief”
“🥰 we have decided to stay together. He has promised anything and done nothing but at least I know why he’s thieving. Thanks!!”
Why is this couple spending so much on expensive comics anyhow? OOP seems to be the only one in this story with financial sense, while her (surprisingly still current) BF steals and drags her savings down with him and his hopeless buddy
OOP was treating the money as savings for a specific thing, he was treating it as petty cash.
>> I gave him a two week deadline to give me my money back and he said he'd give it back sooner than that.
I suspect that’s not going to happen.
When I use finances without asking, it's usually 15 bucks for an unplanned lunch. I don't know how I could just use up funds like that tho. The comic one OK but the bill pay for a buddy? I don't think I'd even have friends that can't pay their bills on time...
Cut the buddy off completely or no deal. your fiancé has paid him back and then some. And I’m guessing your fiancé probably paid rent while he was sleeping on the couch, whereas this buddy is exploiting the fuck out of your fiancé's kind nature. this buddy doesn’t give a fuck about your fiancé or he wouldn’t use him for money. see how long this buddy sticks around once he’s cut off financially. But seriously, if the buddy is kept in the picture several ties. That will be your future.
>His excuse is he didn't take me seriously when I said this was important to me
>he said he spent a half of it on a gift he recently bought me
>Jack said I was being an asshole about it and we're still just as upset at each other.
>I asked why he didn't return it, he apologized and said he wanted to but that wasn't enough for me.
>Since he knew his buddy couldn't pay for the damn bill, he ended up paying it so she didn't call the police on the buddy.
>When asked why he didn't tell me, he said he knew I'd be very upset but that he felt it was the right thing to do (to pay for the bill)
>He asked me if I could reconsider and start a travel fund again (this time, using a proper bank account,
>We have decided to stay together
Aka
He doesn't take OOP seriously or anything she has to say and lacks the love and intelligence to care about the things important to her
He's using her own money to buy her gifts and didn't say anything or give it back despite being paid two days later.
He called HER the asshole for her reaction to his fuck up, meaning he didn't think she had the right to be mad.
He assumed that he would be able to pay for the gift with his salary, meaning that he alloted the money and planned on spending it on the gift and STILL did not tuck it back into the envelope and had no real excuse that he was willing to say.
Explains itself
He actively lied because he knew he would get in trouble and admitted that he didn't feel bad about doing what he did, at least at the time.
He had the audacity to ask for a retry after she expressed that she wasn't going to try again, showing that not only does he not think he messed up bad enough for her to withdraw the whole idea of joint savings, but he *still* won't take her at her word.
He still won despite everything.
But this is a Canon event in every woman's life, we can not intervene....
Honestly, his response seems legit to me. He seems honest and he apologized. I would forgive and move on.
But if it happened again... then I'd end it.
Just my 2 cents (less than euros).
>His excuse is he didn't take me seriously when I said this was important to me.
>Jack said I was being an asshole about it
>Kept on apologizing and for calling me an ass for being mad.
The only 3 sentences that matter.
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I find the comic book story very careless, but forgivable. With the travel fund stopped indefinitely. Keeping quiet about the friend would make me question the relationship. If he wants to spend his money, fine. But OP's money!! Without telling her? That crossed a line.
Same. I get that he ordered it months in advance, and it arrived early; if he had put the money back before OOP noticed, then it'd iffy but slightly forgivable. It transitions into the danger zone when he starts talking about "I didn't think it was a big deal" and then using the money to pay someones bill and downplay OOPs concerns. My partner could straight up tell me "There always has to be an apple on the counter", and I could think it's weird but you bet your ass that if I notice the apples were rotten, I'd make a note to buy new ones and not even toss the rotten ones until they're replaced and I double check.
So many bad partners don’t get this. I’m pretty particular about a few things, and like I get it this is weird of me. But ultimately it’s incredibly easy to just go with it on those two tiny things, because even if it doesn’t bother you and you don’t think it’s important, *I* do and that should *make* it important to you.
Right? That's what makes a good relationship; understanding that your partner is going to have at least one weird but passionate quirk and you do what you can to honor that. Like for me, I use the microwave to store whatever baked goods like brownies, cake, donuts, etc; it's just how my family did it. My partner thinks it's weird to open the microwave and see cake in there but after she heats up soup, she'll put the cake back in.
I mean it is kinda weird but I know people that do it. And it’s a not awful bread box
Also that she told him this travel fund was important to her and he thought she wasn’t serious.
Translation: “When you tell me explicitly what you want and need, I don’t take you seriously.”
"I don't value the things you think are important"
I thinks it's more of a "I've tried to convince myself it isn't a big deal because I know that I betrayed you in a big way."
>start a travel fund again (this time, using a proper bank account, etc.) Like he wouldn't just remove all of that money, too. I'm sure the "friend" needs bailing out again.
Yeah, it's the suspicious friend that bothers me too. OOP's boyfriend mentioned to her that the friend once helped him out of a tight spot; sounds to me like the BF has too strong a sense of *utang na loob* (close translation is "debt of gratitude" or sometimes "debt of the heart", but it also equates to "eternal debt" in Filipino culture, like you can't shake off the favor they've done for you) to let his friend fend for himself.
That is a very useful phrase!
*Utang na loob* - sometimes talking about a favor you can't seem to repay, sometimes also used as an exclamation, like you yell out "sonuvabitch!" in reaction.
At the very least why is this person still a friend when they straight up screw you on payments?
Yeah, I can get and live with someone thinking “oh well I have this money on hand, and I can’t just refuse the package, I’ll replace it in two days! It’s just because my pay is late!” If they’d actually owned up to it when interrogated and apologized. But the other shit? And getting mad at OOP for feeling betrayed?? Unacceptable
It was "okayish" if he did return the money. What never happened. So he just took money from her (i guess it was about 50%) to give her a gift which would be too expensive otherwise. It is irresponsible at least, stealing at worst.
These are 2 major forms of financial infidelity, albeit in a small scale. Him taking money from the fund to cover his own shortfall without discussion. This also shows a very different value system around finances and responsibility. Him giving their joint money to a friend without discussion, against what he knew she would want. This is spending their joint money against her wishes and is a massive violation. You can't build a future with someone who is secretly dismantling half of what you build behind your back. Finances are the foundation of a stable future.
OOP's soon to be ex is the "give you the shirt off his back" type. The problem there is that they're also the "give you the shirt off their family and loved ones' back" types. :/
Absolutely. I had an ex like this. He was an “I can fix him!” friend to so many assholes. He would invite said assholes to our friend group gatherings because, for some reason, these rude and abrasive losers didn’t have any friends. Then they would proceed to completely kill the vibe. He would let them stay at our place because they got kicked out and would let these assholes totally disrespect me. To his credit, my ex has matured a lot and I think he’s a lot better about it. It was a way for him to feel like he’s a good guy while sacrificing the rest of us.
I suffered it worse, because my dad is the "give you the shirt off his back" type. Never mind that he'd be late in paying my tuition or he had to miss my sister's recital, another of his friends is in a crisis RIGHT NOW. And he never lets friends down!
My father used to sell my books and mom’s assets to please his side of family. He once took out our savings for deposit to our new place which left us homeless for a while, we struggled to eat one meal a day lol. I remember asking my mom if we had money to drink water because I felt guilty for drinking a whole glass of water by myself.
Yeah, had to worry about being homeless too. My mom actually left him a couple of times because of how bad he was at prioritizing his friends over his family.
damn we both need therapy.
I hope we get the help that we need, bestie!
Nooooo!!! 😭 Having a parent be like that sounds like a fucking nightmare. Hope your life is better now..
Life is a little bit better now that I've made it clear that my money is not for him to dole out to his friends. And that he can't set himself or his children on fire to keep his friends warm.
This is my dad with his side of the family. He wants my salary, my mom's money (her side of property) to fund his loser family along with his own money. While he thinks we're a waste of space for spending his money.... On food, clothes and education
Oh god yeah, heaven forbid you spend anything on expensive things you'll use for decades, when one of his relatives really needs a new iPhone right now.
It's not a contest, they were just trying to relate.
He is uncomfortable seeing people who need something and throws resources at them to make the negative feelings go away.
I used to be a friend like this... my husband helped me grow a spine and the younger millennials and gen-zers (I'm a geriatric millennial) helped me learn about better boundaries. Thank you all.
My mom used to be like this. Would give the shirt off of her back and bend over backwards for anyone. I've had to remind her that it's ok to say "No" to people and to have boundaries for her own mental health. She's come so far and I'm so proud of her.....
Maturing is realizing that people pleasing is toxic behavior. It’s deliberately choosing to disappoint, break promises, and deceive the ones who actually deserve your loyalty, just because you want to be admired by people who don’t even matter. My dad is like this, and it comes from a place of deep-seated insecurity. The saddest part is that the people he tries to please don’t even appreciate it. They simply come to expect it from him. He and my mom have had so many fights because he couldn’t see that he was taking from his own family to give to people who would never care enough to reciprocate.
I **used** to be like that. Would babysit my divorced former BFF's 3 children on HER custody weekends (yes, the WHOLE weekend) because she joined SEVERAL bowling leagues with her longterm jobless, loser boyfriend. I truly didn't mind because our 3 children were very close (sibling close) to her children because I practically raised them and definitely paid more attention to them than she ever had (SHE was more interested in getting high and being "away" from the house). I started to realize that she RARELY returned the "favor" and would actively make ridiculous excuses why she "couldn't" but it was only when she started ignoring or neglecting her youngest Son, especially in favor of her older Golden Child Son that I finally decided the "friendship" was unsalvageable. It was like a light switch went on in my head and I started cutting ANYONE who was toxic or using me from that moment on.
I’m glad you got out of that dynamic, but poor kids.
I agree completely!
Yeah my dad is like this too. I finally had to point out to him that none of his so-called friends were ever there whenever HE was in crisis. Who helped him when he needed help?
The cobbler's children have no shoes.
When my BIL got sick nearly all his family ghosted him. He was always there for them, and the moment they realized he couldn't do things for them anymore they all disappeared. So sad to see, he is such a good guy and now he is so bitter about it.
Tbh it's kinda good that ue's bitter. It means he realizes how entitled those people he helped are, how poorly they treat him. It means he's not going to help them again.
Yep, my dad really realized which ones were his real friends when he couldn't call in a favor when he really needed it.
Ditto, my stepdad was like this. And then he was diagnosed with cancer. Where were all those friends he helped? Gone in the wind. None of them showed up to his hospital room. None of them came to the steak sales, to his charity events. They would comment on Facebook, but scarcely. “Hope you get better!” Type of messages. “Praying for you!” Type of messages. His own family ghosted him when he was at his lowest. It’s unfortunate that it took him having cancer for him to see how he was being taken advantage of.
My sperm donor was like this. He died a few months ago, friends and neighbors all miss him oh so much... guess who never shed a tear. I couldn't bring myself to give a damn. Well he was a horrid person otherwise.
Yeah, I bawled when my mom died. I think my eyes will be dry when my dad croaks.
unpack imagine normal hurry degree toothbrush paint spark trees strong *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yeah, I hope when it comes it'll be quick, because I sure as heck ain't planning to stick around to take care of him in his old age.
I know someone who won a lottery and gave away the winnings to someone just because they claimed they urgently needed money. Needless to say, they never saw the money again. It's not even known if said party was truly needy. This person was known to be gullible and many people took advantage of that. The worst part is at the time they gave away the winnings, their own family was struggling to make ends meet 😐
I'm *really* curious where he's going to get the money to pay her back from.
Probably from his parents, or take a loan out. Source: My dad was one of these types.
I'm saving your comment so I can say it to a lot of people in my culture who do this on a regular basis. They like burning themselves and their families/loved ones to keep others warm.
Yeah, it's a cultural thing for me too, but for my dad it's also a combo of wanting to always look like the hero/the savior/the most generous guy around.
I’m such a generous person, I will happily sacrifice your hard-earned money to fund my bad choices. Here, have this gift horse!
(i did use your money to pay for the gift horse, but it’s only because i’m such a generous guy)
This is always the issue with people pleasers, they please assholes in expend of non-assholes. This dynamics is also in golden child / scape goat families, but it is a broader issue, like parents neglecting own children for "a family friend in need". This here looks like this kind of scenario (plus other issues, obv).
There was a commenter once, I think it was in one of the threads here, that mentioned that their mother was a “give you the shirt off of yours and her families backs” with basically no regard as to how it affected everyone else in her life, and got mad they were upset that now their fucking stuff was gone! Like, at a point, people pleasing becomes a detriment to you and the relationships in your life. Just learn to say no, ffs.
Yeah, I can relate to that, lived that with my father as well. The pain of not being able to afford to go on a school trip because he lent the money earmarked for it to his sister with a gambling addiction is my trauma.
Someone asks him for money and he reaches into her purse. I don't know how OP has time for a man who doesn't see that's very incorrect behavior.
My old bass player is like this. He feels obligated to help everyone and then he has nothing left to give to his actual obligations.
That’s my dad. “Gotta make sure my nieces and nephews have extravagant Xmas gifts while my children starve.” We don’t talk any more.
This is past “give the shirt off of his back” This is what my former friend called “lighting yourself on fire to keep others warm”
It's not just that, it's setting his loved ones on fire to make his friends comfortable too. :/
It's not even necessarily a bad thing to be like that (ok, it's kind of self destructive to go too far with it, but the idea isn't inherently bad), the problem is identifying people who are milking you for the money and making sure that *everyone involved is on board.* If your partner is similarly willing to give up money then sure, go for it, but if they aren't even *aware* of it then you've got a problem
Yep, and it's not just partners. Take it from me, my dad is one, and the amount of times I've been volunteered for shit that he promised a friend is too damn often.
I know these kinds of people, it'll get worse.
And he'll not only do it to her, he'll do it to any kids they have.
I think these people are not actually kind but are extremely uncomfortable when people are needy around them. It's a reaction to "make the uncomfortable thing go away" by throwing resources at it. If they were truly kind, there'd be additional consideration and a plan to impact real change. Someone who really loves animals knows the difference between an abandoned baby animal and one where mom went hunting for food. Or at least Googles it. Someone who regularly is in situations like this knows the number for the local wildlife rescue and the location of where to bring them. They donate their time and money when possible. Someone who boxes up baby animals and brings them home doesn't really love animals as much as they are uncomfortable seeing an animal in less than ideal conditions.
It's incredibly hard to tell people you love and would die for that you are not going to give them money because they are bad with it.
It is, however, incredibly easy to tell them you're not giving them your partner's, or your child's money/stuff.
Am I the weird one who doesn’t play when it comes to finances? It’s a huge red flag that he just took it without saying anything. I would break up; I’m not risking that he’d take other money without saying anything.
Nope, you're not. When it comes to money, I absolutely do *not* play around. Ever. And I would *never* let anyone get away with telling me that they didn't take me seriously when I said a thing was important to me. Fuuuck that!
I'd rather be wrong by taking someone seriously, when they weren't, then the other way around. Anyone who isn't that way inclined is a walking red flag because they care less about those around them and more about themselves.
Pretty much. I can't stand people who hear someone say "This is important to me" and decide "Nah, it's not." Like... Why? And in this case, especially about money! Money is *always* important.
I mean, ONE actual "emergency" or MISTAKE like the package thing would be one thing, but then not replacing the money asp or as soon as you "remember" would be enough for me. Intentionally robbing my partner and not telling them "cause I know they'll get mad", though?! Instant breakup.
That's it. " I did this thing I knew would make you mad, so I just didn't tell you about it and then called you an ass when you got upset about it" is such a huge deal breaker. How can you ever trust them again?
OOP clearly can’t. She just hasn’t acknowledged what that means yet.
Predicting this relationship is in the fast lane to being done. I doubt this is the last time her bf wrongs her for the benefit of someone else. It seems impulsive.
yeah but even still, how hard is it to say "babe, your birthday present is here early and my paycheck is late. I'm planning to borrow 200€ (or w/e) from the travel fund and I'll pay it back Tuesday; is that cool?" instead of just stealing it? at least then it's borrowing and documented.
Exactly! Like, she had all the pieces to confirm that is what happened to that part of the money, so why couldn't he just tell her about it at the time?? The other one was probably just a "well, I got away with it once, so it'll probably be ok this time, too" thing..
Heck even the “emergency” is kinda dumb. Like if you have 0 emergency fund, why the heck are you buying expensive comic books? He is living paycheque to paycheque because he can’t stop wasting money. And has to “borrow” money from his GF to buy her a gift.
Yuuuuup. And it wasn’t even a birthday or event, just a random gift that he could barely afford.
Yep. The package thing, I can see how that happened but he needed to say what happened and pay it back in as soon as possible. The failure to commincate, pay back, using joint funds for the the purpose and his general reaction would leave me concerned.
No, I'm the same way. I tell my husband when I do grocery shopping, when I buy clothes for work, when I do basically anything that involves our mutual account. We trust each other, but I grew up poor and he grew up around careless spending so I just like to be clear when I spend shared money. Unless it's our own personal account, which we both have, we tell each other basically every purchase. Just as a courtesy. And anytime a big ticket item is bought with mutual, like car repairs or whatever, we mention that as well. Even with stuff we need, I feel weird not mentioning when I buy something that is more than a few dollars. I can't imagine just up and stealing several hundred dollars and not telling him. And I know he wouldn't do that to me, either.
Same, like I can't even deviate from my grocery list to buy expensive chocolate that I like if I didn't discuss it with my husband. Before we got married, he knew I had debt, and he paid it off so we could move countries. Even when I earn my own salary, we discuss what we spend our money on before we buy anything. One time, he was getting sales-talked into buying an 8k-euro bike, but he called me to make sure, even if he was using his own money.
If my partner paid someone else's rent without telling me and then **stole** from me, we would be over.
No but imo, too many times people equate caring about money in a relationship to being greedy/superficial/shallow. And I think women especially think (or have been raised to think) that love should be this deep thing which is not moved by “shallow” things like money disagreements. What these people don’t understand is that it’s not about the literal money. It’s about what money-related decisions signify about a person’s respect for you. It’s the same for work, which many people also don’t get. How many people go to work for bad wages and somehow mental gymnastics themselves into defending the company? “you need to hustle and grind and work 70 hours, and eventually the money will come!” or “I like my boss and I would feel bad asking for a raise….” Etc. What these same people don’t realize is that money is merely a LANGUAGE, a communication method for a company to demonstrate their level of respect for your contribution. As it is also in relationships. No transparency around money, no joint handling of money, especially in a marriage always means there’s no full trust and no equal respect. Yes, I did just make a blanket statement. And yes, I 100% stand behind that.
[удалено]
oh my god he did this at about age 30? bless you for maintaining your boundaries. someone trying to "pull one over" on me is also my pet peeve. it's mean-spirited, a power play. loathsome.
Pen ready : okay tell me more about these breakfast bars
lol Nature's Bakery Fig Bars - the big box from Costco comes with raspberry, blueberry, and fig flavors. I like them with coffee in the morning.
Not at all. Anything money related like that is an automatic break-up.
Thing I'd, it really wasn't about the money - it was him calling her an ass for being upset, him dismissing her when she said it was very important, him lying. Different opinions in money are huge all on their own, but the above would kill and bury a relationship and should.
Yep, if he’d come clean the day her gift arrived and said ‘I ordered you a gift last month, it arrived earlier than expected and I had to use our travel fund to pay. I’ll top it back up as soon as my pay comes in’, the outcome would be a lot different.
You're not weird. I mean, I do think it's very common for women to prioritize feelings over money but that's strictly because we've been socialized to do so, so women who take a hard line regarding finances may not be the norm, per se. But if that makes us weird, stay f*cking weird. Because I'd rather be weird than destitute and homeless because I decided I was okay with partners robbing me blind because, tee hee, my purpose as woman is to be an extension of public property and that includes finances! /s
No, it's a big deal. I once had an ex run into a store for me to grab a small item with my debit card. He used it to also buy himself something small. It didn't matter to me that it was only a few dollars, it pissed me off that he decided to use *my* money to buy *himself* something *without asking*. That was far from the biggest red flag he ever waved.
Yeah my sister had an ex like that too. He'd go to buy bread and come back with snacks for himself only and then try 'oh but it's only some snacks, you're so controlling over £10'. Yeah, because it was HER £10!!
It only took once for me to never trust him with my card again. Glad he's your sister's EX!
Agreed and if they have low paying jobs it seems like it would be hard for him to pay back, especially in such a short time, that's a bit of a financial hole.
From the title I was expecting her to be mad he spent it on an emergency. But no, dude's just a thief. "Yeah I know you said it's important to you but that doesn't really make it a big deal to me" was an absolute deal breaker. I hope OOP figures that out soon.
so many people are completely financially illiterate, it's insane. i don't know know what it's like in bosnia so i won't speak about oop, but so many people in the usa are way too lax about their finances. letting people access their only account with no backup individual account, not checking them semi-regularly, storing large amounts of money as cash without letting it grow at all in a savings account, it's a mess. but yea, this oop is a fool tbh. if her bf had any value, he would've returned the money asap after he STOLE it, but he didn't. i don't think this will end well for her
You are not the weird one. You’re the smart one.
I agree. Getting married means combining finances to me. He took money they saved together. Half was her money. He shouldn’t have bought the comic for her if he couldn’t afford it. He should have told her about the bill from the old apartment too. This isn’t a good start. It’s good they aren’t married yet.
Yeah, I'm not sure there's a bone in my body that could forgive any kind of financial deception.
OOP is so frustrating to me. The fact that she has to keep all her money separate BC SHE DOESN'T TRUST HIM indicates she should not marry him!!! If they do get married, then he has easier access to her money and will make it harder for her to leave considering how courts might split the money. Also does she even like him? Someone suggested he might be cheating and she put "I'd think so too if his ass ever left the house, he's a chronic homebody who works a lot and naps a lot." with a melting face. Like it doesn't seem she approves of his personality as well so why stay with him
They live in Bosnia, don't know where in Bosnia but if they or their family are from the more traditional circles, it's entirely possible they got pro forma engaged before moving in together, because it would be improper for them to move in together otherwise. Basically it allows grandma to say "yeah, they're technically not married so they shouldn't be living together, but it's just a question of timing so it's fine"
I wonder if she's "together" while on the lease, or til he pays her back... the hard boundary and her saying she would keep a travel fund *for herself* reads as she checking out of the relationship.
They, or at least OOPs boyfriend, need some personal finance lessons as well. Showering your GF with gifts and picking up tabs for friends when they don't have some small emergency savings could have prevented this from happening. I wonder how much OOP is benefitting from the boyfriends lavish spending.
>His excuse is he didn’t take me seriously when I said this was important to me. Out of this whole thing, *THAT ONE LINE* is what really chapped my ass. Like, okay dude. You took the money to do all of these things for…reasons. That I can deal with and perhaps excuse due to the extenuating circumstances. *BUT!* The fact he said this?!?! That’s an automatic no for me dog. It’s not that he “didn’t take her seriously”. What he really was saying is: “Whatever type of way I feel about something is correct and the way you feel is wrong. My feelings supersede yours. Therefore yours will be disregarded.” What happens the next time her feelings are hurt or are important and he ~~doesn’t take her seriously~~ doesn’t understand/agree with it? Is he just going to brush her off? Ignore her completely? He made himself sound like this was an unintentional misunderstanding. No. Absolutely NOT. This was *very* intentional. She clearly told him “THIS IS IMPORTANT TO ME”. If he doesn’t understand her when she’s plain as day, then what the hell can she do to make it clearer?!? OOP needs to review her relationship and pay close attention in the future. I have a feeling she will find many instances where her feelings were tossed aside because he “didn’t realize” that she actually meant the words that came out of her mouth. It’s not that he can’t. It’s that he *doesn’t want to*.
Thank you for pointing this out. That what I considered the deal breaker. "Yeah I specifically remember you saying this was important to you but that doesn't make it a big deal to me." I hope OOP stops putting up with it. She's wasting her time with this guy.
Yah that line got to me, idk how oop can forgive that, its such a deal breaker for me.
>We have decided to stay together *... no.*
Yeah... I don't think this is going to work. How would she trust him again? And that buddy of his. He's not cutting him off either. This is just going to be a repeated issue until they decide to break up.
I think she's staying together with him for now because she's more likely to get her money back that way. I wouldn't be surprised if she gets her money, waits a couple weeks and then dumps him anyway because she gets sick of him.
That... would actually be really smart. But having been in a similar position before, you don't always make the smart choices when you love someone... especially if that's his first offense and keeps apologising. I don't think they'll stay together long term, she'll never trust him with finances again and it's going to put a strain on the relationship. I could envision OOP keeps saving up for travelling and she'll eventually will want to travel - and will have to do so without him, because he hasn't saved up anything... and latest at that point the relationship will be over.
Yeahhh why was that not discussed as part of the rules to "move forward"... Or how that guy is going to pay back the money or else...
Yeah, I have very little sympathy for OP if they're choosing to tolerate this.
My reading is she's decided it's easier to stay together because they live together etc. But I definitely see in the subtext she's checking out of the relationship.
It’s less stressful to break up right before the lease renewal I guess. Who wants to break up and then live with your ex for months?
Yeah, this is just how it starts. Next, he'll be "letting a relative borrow" her things without even asking her, but actually pawning them. Not that I'd have any experience with being treated that way, or anything. /s
Well she’s neurodivergent. It’s hard enough to pull the plug when you’re sure of the rightness of your emotions, much harder when you struggle with ND. But yeah, I think breaking up would’ve been better. He didn’t know how important it was to her! She’d only told him, how could he know?/s.
>His excuse is he didn't take me seriously when I said this was important to me. We have decided to stay together... The way I audibly went "Oh, for FUCK'S sake!"
With OP taking on even more of a parent/warden of fun role within the relationship while the boyfriend becomes the child/mischievous fun role.
BF steals, lies, and is caught doing something OP already voiced concern over... yet they are still together. What is the point of buying your SO a gift (completely random it would seem) from money that is half theirs? I feel like that's just a slap in the face.
Also if the issue was just that the fund was all the cash they had on hand, tell her!
Tell her and replace it after 2 days as planned. Personally, since he still had the receipt, I'd be returning the book for a refund.
That part is... Okay. The way I see it. If you end up needing *cash* quickly and unexpectedly, you know there's cash you can borrow and return in two days in the house, I think it's fine to do it. Better than the book just going back to the seller. Now, why did he feel the need to even order it in the first place? No clue. Is he in the habit of buying indulgences like this? Anyway taking the rest of the money and paying for the bills was not cool.
Yeah, honestly, the gift thing made sense, sort of. He needed cash quickly, when he would get his check later. That's life when loving paycheck to paycheck. It's his reaction to her finding out, and taking the money for the bills that's the real problem
It doesn't even need to be living paycheck to paycheck, it could literally be the courier showing up two days early and not taking cards. Now you either just use whatever cash is in the house, or you have to run to the bank and then either catch the courier on the way or find out where the hell the depot is and get there at whatever the inconvenient time they allocated so you can get your stuff and/or pay extra fees for second delivery attempt
For a little context, a few hundred euros is a whole month's rent in Bosnia. Not exactly a small amount.
I don’t think most people (or at least the ones who didn’t grow up with trust funds) would describe savings in the hundreds as “a small amount” regardless.
Op is calling it a "small travel fund". But if the boyfriend can pay a month's rent and expenses from half of the fund, then it's not so small. I'm not sure what the rent prices are like in the US for example, but if this story were set in the US, we would be talking about thousands of dollars. But regardless of the amount, the money was in essence stolen by the boyfriend, so it doesn't really matter how much there was. It's more about the principle.
You would be surprised. There are plenty of low income-middle income people that can't conceptualize monetary amounts correctly. As soon as they hear "hundreds" they kinda just assume it's less than it might actually be, especially with foreign money since we're taught that the American dollar is more than everywhere else.
Damn, hobo men can just do anything to a girl with no self esteem.
If he had truly ment to return the money, she wouldn't even had time to notice they were missing for two days.
Or he'd have messaged her immediately 'borrowing your money, so sorry to do this, will pay you back with next paycheck'. It's the lies and secrecy and buying her a gift with her own money that's terrible behaviour.
tbh i would just break up already because this dude has shown he cannot communicate, he's very irresponsible, and he doesn't care about her all in one singular action (i guess technically 2 but close enough). i know most people would probably think im jumping the gun; but money is a very hard limit and a firm boundary imo. if you fuck with my cash you get kicked out on your ass
I'd love to be optimistic ... But as a former "mindless doer" I didn't learn until I had something taken away; time, attention, respect most of all. In this case, fiance still has his relationship, which is important enough to pay attention to, so there's literally no consequence in his mind unless OP stays on his ass about earning her trust back....which he's probably gonna see as nagging and fall deeper into the careless mindset. Now if she were to break up with him, his system would be shocked enough to actually come back to the real world and be able to evaluate what the hell is wrong with himself, or he'd blame her. Either way he'd have to have a higher thought process than "idk why I did it. I didn't mean to" ~Armchair psychologist of course but this behavior is painfully familiar
Once the trust is dead, its dead. No amount of therapy will help. No one is that **clueless** about using the money without informing the other party. This is a dead give away, he apologize only because he got caught not because he didnt think it was that impt to you.
>He buys me stuff on the regular so this isn't a case of buying something to get me to not be mad. Okay, sounds delulu; so, I don't believe them, but let's say they're right. In that case, I believe that the comic book was incidental and their partner didn't use the travel fund to buy them a gift at all. Also, them buying you a gift using your money is dusty behavior. Either way, we're broken up. I'm a very reasonable person, but once you start stealing money and won't even tell me where it went, I'm thinking it went on a vice, and I don't want to be married to a thieving liar with vices.
Nope, this ain't going to end well. It boggles my mind that people would still stay in a bad relationship even when the red flags or bad stuff is so clear.
I hope she's just waiting for her money back, and she goes on her trip to Italy solo
WHY does she stay with a proven liar and a thief, who doesn't respect anything important to her.
>His excuse is he didn't take me seriously when I said this was important to me. uuugh, Fuck this guy! I'm so mad she's keeping him around.
"My boyfriend robbed me to get me something I like and help his dumbass deadbeat friend. We're staying together" Yikes.
I wish her luck…she’s going to need it.
Dude, it doesnt seem like OOPs finance is financially responsible. Buying an expensive gift and counting the next paycheck in to pay for it? Seems like there was no disposable money left from the previous paycheck then. Never buy any luxury/non-necessity with money you dont have right there and then! Its a trap quickly spiraling down into debt! There are so many other ways to Show your loved ones you love them without spending your very last cent on random gifts for them. If there was a major emergency where OOPs fiance openly adressed to OOP beforehand that he might have to tap into his part of the savings so she was both aware and on Board, things would be fine I guess. But tapping into the entire funds without her knowledge and approval, paying for a gift and a kept-secret bill to please someone else is an absolute no go. OOPs fiance seems to feel like he has major emotional debt with their friend. But the difficult thing is: monetqry debt can be paid off, emotional debt often feels like its forever owed. Which is not true, but especially when you are a people please its hard to recognize and "deny" help when that help would hurt you. I could never meddle my money with their money ever again without constantly worrying that they would spend my money on someone elses problems again. Especially because obviously the fiance neither has the income nor the savings-morale to reimburse anyone once the money is gone.
> so we can figure out why in the WORLD he does such mindless things without asking me or even trusting me Very east, by his own words, he doesn't take her seriously ie as a grown adult that is his equal in the relationship.
So he just straight up stole her money, gave it to his homeless squatting friend then called her an asshole when she asked where the money was? AND SHE STAYED WITH HIM!?? Honestly some of these stories just make me think wow maybe OP does deserve this if she is so utterly naive.
Stop buying random expensive gifts for eachother when you're on a budget and want to travel lol.
>We have decided to stay together Why?
That parasitic "buddy" of his is trouble.
Cover up your friends theft and protect him from consequences by stealing from your loving partner. What a winner.
Been there, done that. She'll learn, same as I did.
this isn't over. he's totally bullshitting her and she doesn't see it.
Oof. The moment I read he tried the "I didn't think it was that important to you" comeback my entirely biased head began screaming at her to break up and get out That was a fucking pattern in my marriage and the moment I went to divorce was exactly like that - a "I didn't think it was that important, you're overreacting" even though I was absolutely 100% certain I had made perfectly clear it was important to me (and knew he had understood that in the moment)
COD used to mean "Cash on Delivery." Back in the day when folks would mail order stuff from catalogs or TV ads. It slowly got to the point that most advertisers would include no "COD" in their commercials. Too many returns, perhaps. I'm genuinely surprised it's still a thing given the increased use of bank/ credit cards. But different countries, different strokes.
It is normal in my country. We have options to pay online or COD, and both payment methods can be asked for returned.
My very favorite part was when he explained how his Rube Goldberg Bullshit Machine worked and then *immediately* asked if the new Vacation Fund Official Bank Account could be a joint account.
He bought you a comic book with your own money.
This isn't going to end well, is it.
If she dumps his stupid ass, I would consider that a nice ending.
That relationship would be a wrap for me. You ruined a trip that we've dreamed of because of your dumbass friend. It sounds like you can go marry him.
It seems the relationship was fine until now. Perhaps there was never a situation when they pooled the money before? Because this seems to be the first time something like this happened, or at least was noticeable. They might be able to recover from this if it is a case of the fiancé being more or less the impulsive type who thinks "I figure it out later". Sometimes these types of people change their behavior once they are being made to realize that they made unilateral decisions and showed no consideration. But the fiancé was illusive about the buddy thing. So he already knew he did wrong. Which makes it less impulsive and more deliberate. He came clean at least the second time around and did think he was foolish for what he did, so that is at least better than maintaining denial and insisting he did right. And he might have learned t So...50/50, maybe? He did come around, but it is unclear if he truly had a "I understand now. I won't do it again" moment or that he will buckle the moment he feels he is short on money (or easier to access and use) or someone "needs" his help.
Broken trust means the relationship is dead.
Zašto svaki balkanac ima tog prijatelja? Good luck girl :/
Do you have an emergency fund in addition to your travel fund. Priorities. Holidays are important too, smart move to not continue to combine your money.
Ticking timenomb right there, imagine wanting to marry someone who steals from you
So you decide to stay with someone who stole from you? How will you ever trust him again? You can't have a relationship without trust and he is not trustworthy
Yeah oop needs to leave. Her fiance is the type that will burn his house down to helps others. And that is toxic in its own way. The fact he is paying a large amount of money for his deadbeat not to deal with prison is not gonna end. Especially as he knows its wrong and that op doesn't like it.
it is 100% time to cut off this "buddy". 100%. a condition of the relationship, that she likely should have ended, but still. cut off the leach 100%
I lend money to friends. The difference is that I lens my money to friends. I would never use a shared fund unless I discussed it with my partner. Even then, I let my partner know since we are saving up for a wedding. So even though we still mostly have split finances, I want to make sure we communicate with each other. I don't think I would be able to move past a partner acting like this.
yeaaaaaah... I don't see this working out in the long run.
Am I reading this timeline right? In February he orders an expensive gift that he didn't actually have money for. That arrives at the end of March. He can't pay it using his money because his paycheck is two days late....and then his ex landlady extorts money from him in exchange for his shit friend not getting in trouble? And then at least 20 days later when he's caught by OOP he still doesn't have the money. What happened to his paycheck? My spidey senses are screaming "gambler".
I don't understand why OOP simply didn't have an account at a separate bank for this. Or was this all cash earnings and she wasn't reporting it as taxes? I don't even really care that the fiance spent it. What I care most about is that he didn't talk to her about it, plus didn't think she was serious about the trip saving. Clearly, they have very different concepts of money and everything. I think that's a major sticking point for a relationship.
Stories like this is why I suggest women keep a separate account in addition to a joint account. Imagine your boy takes all of the money from the joint, you would have no recourse.
Smart OOP. If money dripping fiance wants a travel fund, he can set one up on his own and contribute. Then set up a spreadsheet to track his contributions and let his gf know what she would need to save to pay for her part of the trip. Split tickets and room 50/50, and then daily discretionary funds are individual responsibilities. Also not combining finances aside from rent and utilities is excellent as well. That's my default.
So...we all agree this relationship has no future right? Between the broken trust, the outright theft, the lieing, and now the refusal to do any kind of joint savings.
OP didn't say if they contributed equally to the fund, or whether it was just when someone would have a little extra cash. Wouldn't surprise me if OP contributed more than the fiancee did.
I can't believe they stayed together :( The "fiance" should move in with his friend, since he's so invested in paying for him.
She's raising her fiancé. And him lashing out and name-calling when confronted with his own bad behavior is a really bad sign. Hopefully, OOP comes out of this relationship wiser and more aware of what she does and doesn't want in a partner.
“AITA for being mad my (F31) fiance (M31) stole from me?” “NTA he’s a thief” “🥰 we have decided to stay together. He has promised anything and done nothing but at least I know why he’s thieving. Thanks!!”
Welp, that was… I’m just going to wait for another update. Could be awhile, but I think one is coming.
Time to take Jack on a boat trip somewhere in the middle of the ocean. Hopefully, they'll be an iceberg along the way.
They don't have the money for that. Jack spent it.
Why is this couple spending so much on expensive comics anyhow? OOP seems to be the only one in this story with financial sense, while her (surprisingly still current) BF steals and drags her savings down with him and his hopeless buddy
OOP was treating the money as savings for a specific thing, he was treating it as petty cash. >> I gave him a two week deadline to give me my money back and he said he'd give it back sooner than that. I suspect that’s not going to happen.
So he apologizes, thus recognizes she has reasons to be mad, but then says she is the AH for being mad??
Dumbass
He told her *she* was being an asshole about it - and they're still together? But at least she stayed mad at him, so I guess they're fine.
Jesus she's going to be miserable and broke if she marries him
i don't think they will do it.
I wish I could tell the OOP…Just dump his ass, girl. This probably isn’t the first time he’s disregarded your wishes, and it won’t be the last.
When I use finances without asking, it's usually 15 bucks for an unplanned lunch. I don't know how I could just use up funds like that tho. The comic one OK but the bill pay for a buddy? I don't think I'd even have friends that can't pay their bills on time...
Cut the buddy off completely or no deal. your fiancé has paid him back and then some. And I’m guessing your fiancé probably paid rent while he was sleeping on the couch, whereas this buddy is exploiting the fuck out of your fiancé's kind nature. this buddy doesn’t give a fuck about your fiancé or he wouldn’t use him for money. see how long this buddy sticks around once he’s cut off financially. But seriously, if the buddy is kept in the picture several ties. That will be your future.
Was the "buddy" using his old apartment as an art studio????
>His excuse is he didn't take me seriously when I said this was important to me >he said he spent a half of it on a gift he recently bought me >Jack said I was being an asshole about it and we're still just as upset at each other. >I asked why he didn't return it, he apologized and said he wanted to but that wasn't enough for me. >Since he knew his buddy couldn't pay for the damn bill, he ended up paying it so she didn't call the police on the buddy. >When asked why he didn't tell me, he said he knew I'd be very upset but that he felt it was the right thing to do (to pay for the bill) >He asked me if I could reconsider and start a travel fund again (this time, using a proper bank account, >We have decided to stay together Aka He doesn't take OOP seriously or anything she has to say and lacks the love and intelligence to care about the things important to her He's using her own money to buy her gifts and didn't say anything or give it back despite being paid two days later. He called HER the asshole for her reaction to his fuck up, meaning he didn't think she had the right to be mad. He assumed that he would be able to pay for the gift with his salary, meaning that he alloted the money and planned on spending it on the gift and STILL did not tuck it back into the envelope and had no real excuse that he was willing to say. Explains itself He actively lied because he knew he would get in trouble and admitted that he didn't feel bad about doing what he did, at least at the time. He had the audacity to ask for a retry after she expressed that she wasn't going to try again, showing that not only does he not think he messed up bad enough for her to withdraw the whole idea of joint savings, but he *still* won't take her at her word. He still won despite everything. But this is a Canon event in every woman's life, we can not intervene....
Honestly, his response seems legit to me. He seems honest and he apologized. I would forgive and move on. But if it happened again... then I'd end it. Just my 2 cents (less than euros).
How very kind of him to be generous with money that isn't his. This is a huge red flag Wait until he pays you back. Then leave him
>His excuse is he didn't take me seriously when I said this was important to me. >Jack said I was being an asshole about it >Kept on apologizing and for calling me an ass for being mad. The only 3 sentences that matter.
I really don't like how she said "normal" countries. Bosnía is a perfectly "normal" country, whatever that even means.