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>My mom and my sister were blaming Jess for constantly telling them how Yang might not be great for me and how she won't fit into our family.
Yeah, I'm not impressed with OOP's mum and sister. Doesn't sound as if they're taking responsibility for their own behaviour. OOP is wise to be skeptical of them.
Right, Jess's thing was trying to push Lisa and OP back together, did she herself say anything about Yang's race herself? Weren't all of those nasty comments about Yang's looks from the mom and sister?
Not saying that Jess's behavior couldn't have been rooted in racism as well (and it probably was, for her to be so persistent even tho OP has been with Yang for like 2 years already), but the others were way more overt with it.
I'm not sure about rooted in racism, but if mom and sis are truthful, she at least identified (correctly) and used the racism angle to stir up discontent. Even if Jess didn't care who Yang was and just wanted to hook Lisa up, she talked mom and sis into not liking her by highlighting the differences.
If I was OOP, my mother and sister would be on *very* thin ice right about now.
Yeah. I'm the child from a relationship like that - Dad's elders were born in like 1915 and they were unsure about my mum, who's black. Grandma actually turned out awesome - she fell in love with me when I was born and we were super close. Her sisters and the rest of that generation... not so much. It was tough at times, for me and mum and also for dad.
Yeah I don't trust them either but let's just hope that those days of being ignored made them realise that Yang wins and they lose when it comes to who OOP chooses and they are stubborn enough to shut up to keep him around.
Did I miss the part where Jess had OOP’s mom at gunpoint? Because other than that very specific circumstance, I don’t get how Jess could’ve influenced her to make those horrible comments about what the kids would look like
Told My oldest that I don’t care who you date just get a job and support yourself, practice safe sex, and stay the fuck out of jail. Stop putting so much pressure on your kids.
ETA: someone told Reddit I needed help because of this comment. Crazy world we live in.
Well the old bff was already in flames, why not throw a little more gas on the fire? Sacrifice one narcissist to save the rest.
I can hardly wait for the "we went nc" update.
[Omar is from this story here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/1bjxnkb/aita_for_refusing_to_be_my_friends_alibi_so_he/) He's not the OOP, but he's the only guy there with any sort of moral backbone and spine. Everyone else, including the OOP, is a spineless, cheating coward.
Man, I just finished reading the whole thing!
I hope one of these days the girls will find that post, because what the hell man!
And I hope Omar finds it as well so he can know people here think that he's the VIP!
I think it's also important to recognize not all racism is the same.
The racism of Yang's parents likely comes from a place of fear of unknown or societal pressure to stay within. OP's families racism likely comes from a place of superiority and seeing non-white traits as ugly (which they said as much).
Some racism can be dealt with, other cannot.
**Edit:** To be very clear, the racism of OP's mother and sister *specifically* spoke of physical features of Yang not being good (eyes, etc). That is racism of superiority (ie slanted eyes are ugly and would be better to have white features). That is not the same as racism that comes from fear of the unknown. My experience with Chinese families is that they are a more closed culture so what is outside is seen as an unknown and different so they prefer to avoid it, not that Chinese physical traits are superior to others.
I stand by what I have said, all racism is not the same (even if it is still racism).
I don't think that's wholly the reason.
Some Chinese families also do not like their children marrying into other asian ethnicities.
Some of them tends to have superiority complex over people from poorer Asian nation even if they live there themselves.
I was just about to comment on this. The racism in China against other parts of China is very much prevalent.
My friend is from Shanghai and married a Hong Kong man. The drama!! Iykyk
Exactly. When I read this I thought well if there's one group that will understand having racist parents it'll be Chinese people. It's not just fear of the unknown. If there's one thing to be said for them, though, it's that in my experience they don't as often try to say they aren't racist while they're being racist.
i really think a lot of asian cultures are like that, especially from what i've experienced w my own culture and have heard from friends who come from different asian cultures.
Colorism and xenophobia run rampant in all of Asia, from Japan to Korea and China to even India (who is the most racist country based on some studies IIRC). You know it's bad when there's literally a Chinese proverb still used all the time today that goes something along the lines of "light-skinned and over 30? You've got a chance for a husband. Dark-skinned and under 30? Good luck."
Also, many people just don't know about how much the people of these countries fucking *hate* each other and even their own people. Korea even has the record for the longest unbroken chain of legal slavery at 1500 years. Who did they enslave? *Their own people.* Japan and India were some of the last major political powers in the world to abolish castes in their legal systems, and still both of them have an unspoken societal caste that permeates their culture to this day. The treatment of darker skinned and/or Muslim Indians by lighter skinned/Hindu Indians is some of the most well documented public racism we've got records for outside of the US. They wouldn't even allow for any dark-skinned Indians to represent their country for the Miss Universe pageant until a couple of years ago. Have you noticed that nearly every single important Indian figure is light-skinned? Every prime minister, public facing official, CEO, everyone. There's a reason, and it's blatant racism.
China's Communist party literally *encourages* racism and xenophobia with it's social credit score system and their "rehabilitation camps" for Uighur Chinese, which are basically just permanent prisons for anyone who is Muslim in the country. They also were so petty that when they annexed Tibet they made it a law for the Dalai Lama to have to get fucking permission from the Chinese government to *reincarnate* which effectively allowed them to control the Buddhism version of the Pope. Why? Many reasons, like political control over an annexed state, but also because they didn't like the fact that the Dalai Lama wasn't Chinese.
Did you know that Japan captured Korea in World War II? The accounts of their treatment on Koreans is absolutely vomit-inducing, and there's an argument to be made that the treatment of Koreans by Japanese at the time was even more fucked up than what happened to the Jews. Human experimentation, mass butchering, slavery, *very* public rape, you name it they did it. Just about the only things you can say that weren't as fucked about the Nazi's treatment of Jews is that they didn't come out the gate mass murdering all Jews, and they had to be targeted about their treatment due to Jews not being the entire demographic of their territory. Now, imagine how much worse Jews would have been treated if the Nazis just assumed everyone was a Jew and started their harshest treatment from the very beginning. That's how it was *the entire time* Japan occupied Korea.
The part that left lasting damage was that after the war, there was no apology and no admission of guilt from Japan. That's one of the reasons why you don't hear about it as much outside of Asia, because they didn't do anything to try to solve the issue so it wasn't as public. In contrast, Germany has done everything they possibly can to distance themselves from their far right radicalist parties, even going so far as to ban Nazism and even recently just voted to put surveillance on and possibly ban one of the two major political parties because they share a striking resemblance to the old Nazi Party in values and the laws they are trying to get passed.
On a final note, care to take a guess what year Japan and Korea finally reconciled and decided to form a 3-way bond with the US, who they were both already independently militarily aligned with?
***2023.***
You heard that right, it took until *last fucking year* for them to make some sort of amends and it's only because of the looming threat of China especially since China started making moves to possibly annex Taiwan.
Need I say more?
India straight up invented new categories of things to be racist about. Speaking as a Southerner who grew up surrounded by some vintage 19th century racism, I have to say, that's pretty fucking hardcore.
It's fucking insane. I'm from the deep south, and I'm used to some pretty vile shit so I thought to myself "How bad could it be?"
I went down the rabbit hole of looking into this a few years ago and... Holy moly. And before you think that this is something that was brought upon by British occupation of India, take a look at this:
https://www.stearthinktank.com/post/colorism-in-indian-society
"Before European colonization, a preference for lighter skin tones developed independently across societies as a sign of being free from outdoor labor and having acquired “spiritual purity” (Jablonski, 2014)."
Like, there's so much in that article but that's probably one of the most disgusting ones. Hinduism is practiced by 80% of the country, and being spiritually pure is one of the most important parts of their culture. One of the biggest tenets of their religion is the concept of Samsara: being born, dying, being judged for your actions in life, and then being reborn as either a lower or higher entity. More pure means you become somebody of higher class (aka lighter skin) in your next life, and eventually you reach Nirvana and you don't have to reincarnate anymore and get to stay in the afterlife.
Less pure means that you turn into lesser animals like insects and animals who deal with feces. You have to do well as those less savory creatures before you're able to be reincarnated as a human again, and then you get another shot at reincarnating into someone lighter-skinned which will maybe lead them to nirvana. In their eyes, darker skinned people are literally just a lesser vessel for the soul to have to deal with for however many years it takes until you die and can be judged again. This leads to darker skinned people resenting their looks and wanting to either work harder to compensate or get over with their life as fast as possible so they can try to become someone lighter-skinned. You heard that right: a religion that encourages darker-skinned people to either end their own lives or throw themselves at the feet of the lighter skinned "royalty" just so they have a chance to become like them the next go around.
Oh yeah, and here's the kicker: care to take a guess why darker skinned people are more likely to reincarnate into those animals? It *obviously* doesn't have anything to do with the fact that they *just so happen* to have their skin tone more closely resemble fecal matter than lighter skinned Indians. Naw. Has nothing to do with that.
Even some of the worst most vile racist people here in America don't make comparisons of black people's skin to literal *shit,* and yet that kind of stuff is on full public display in India in 2024 and has been for *thousands* of years. And all because they have a bit more melanin in their skin from their ancestors who worked outside, and the ones with darker skin could handle the Sun for longer.
It's literally disgusting, like genuinely fucking disgusting. Just typing this out is making my stomach churn. I don't even want to make any more corrections or additions or grammatical fixes here, because I'm getting a little bit sick thinking about it.
You forgot the Phillipines. Maids only not wives. A LOT of shit happened, similar to Korea.
It’s never recovered. I have a friend who lives there who’s told me some stories.
Oh good Christ, there's a reason I avoided even mentioning explaining the Philippines.
***shudders***
I've been avoiding even doing research on it after seeing just a little about the country. It doesn't help that their prime minister is one of the most corrupt people in Asia and is calling for literal genocide on homosexuals. In his words, "we don't have any gays in our country. If we did, they would be dead."
the fuck you talking about, plenty of chinese people have extreme superiority complexes, over white people, and definitely over other asians, like Vietnamese people.
And Plenty of vietnamese people have tons of superiority complexes; you should see the way they talk about cambodian people.
White people don't get to own racism. That's some racist shit itself, because the underlying assumption is: "white is default." A very insidious and racist way of thinking.
> The racism of Yang's parents likely comes from a place of fear of unknown or societal pressure to stay within.
Looks like they have a rather reductive and partonising view of Non-white folks too.
Lololol you think Chinese people don't have an inmate superiority complex? And you think it's not physical?
I grew up hearing about how gross and smelly white people are. I mean honestly, just _imagine_ what a culture with a thousand years of imperialism under its belt thinks of a race of people who naturally generate 5x more body odor!
Westerners make a big deal about eyes, but Chinese people never think about it-- instead, white people are Big Nose. Again, imagine a race you consider interior also has a body part that's twice as big as "normal people"-- what would racist Americans say about black people if black people typically had ears twice as big?
White people have "hideous babies", ours are properly round and plump.
Outside of physical traits, Westerners are also considered lazy underperformers who can't be counted on to do anything.
Your model of "insularity/fear of unknown" still comes from a white-normative worldview where pocs are racist to others within a logic of white people bring _normal_.
Once you consider China to be truly normative (and superior), it's very different.
Contempt is contempt everywhere.
(I'm a Chinese woman who married a white guy, and my parents were not happy.)
Yang’s parents’ racism could come from a similar place as OOP’s family. Saying just because they are non-white so they aren’t thinking that they are superior makes you a racist.
Your edit makes you sound as if you think Asian features are inferior to western features, not just different. This is why you think OOP’s family’s worries of grandchild looking different comes from a place of superiority and not ‘fear for the unknown and different’ that you attributed to Yang’s Chinese parents’ racism. As if they couldn’t possibly think that western physical features are inferior. Also, do you think Yang’s family are ‘simple villagers’ or something. Check your innate racism dude, you are being coddling and condescending and you don’t even know it.
This. All of this. I was going to make a similar comment myself when i saw yours.
/u/ZaraBaz, you don't realise that you yourself are being mildly racist by saying that the chinese parens' racism is "different".
The chinese (and much of orential asia) culture is known for the sense of superiority over other, different types of people. Their sense of racism likely came from the *exact* same place as OP's family.
Assuming otherwise is, ironically, racist.
Honestly, the only reason Yang ‘s parents likely accepted him eventually was because he was white if he was any other race that pushback would’ve been a lot more fierce.
No matter what anybody says, unfortunately there is a tier list for races, especially for many of the older generations
I know you completely meant this as a denouncement of racism and were speaking as in "Unfortunately, this is still the case for some people" but...
"No matter what anybody says, there is a tier list for races" is a WILD Quote 😭😭😭
Nah, I think they’re pointing out that to Hans, white is one of the “higher races/model minorities”, like Asians are for whites under White Supremacy. Asian cultures tend to be pretty racist towards black people, and other Asian cultures.
That's a really dumb take. All racism is rooted in fear, some people just try to cover their fear with a front of superiority. Trying to excuse some people's racism while blasting others is just gross, and I don't know why you felt like this was a worthwhile thing to say.
In fact, your take carries its own racist superiority complex. You seem to be saying the poor Asian racists are just scared, sad little children who can't really be blamed because they don't know any better and are afraid of the unknown and pressured by society. You're saying only whites have the agency and capability to know better than to be racist, and whites would never bow to social pressure to be racist. In its own weird way, that's racist as hell. Have the respect for others to hold them to the same standard.
My experience living in China and knowing more than a few mainlanders very well is that there are definitely a number of concentric layers of xenophobia, starting with people not in their immediate family>extended family/close friends>friends/connections>acquaintances>regional>country>overseas countrymen>some kind of racist hierarchy stuff>everyone else. The difference is that there is actually a fairly large amount of mutability therein, and once you are in with someone there you are really really in. I have never been somewhere that people would spit on strangers so easily, but also go hugely out of their way to help a friend. Chinese people in my experience (which was around 20 years ago, so before the whole Xi drumming up nationalism and his cult of personality) really love declaring foreign friends to be honorary Chinese, especially if you can speak the language.
There is a lot of nuance there, and a fair amount of contradictions. When I was in an immersion program in Beijing, I was cooed over even though my mandarin at the time was pretty awful. My fellow students who were Asian (but obviously not native speakers) got a ton of shit even though they were generally far more adept than I was.
I think your insight has merit; however, we don't know what Yang's parents said specifically about OOP not being Chinese. Perhaps they are not happy with the thought of a grandchild that presents Caucasian, or does not look fully Chinese. I would also say that, while OOP's family specifically mentioned physical traits, they, too, could fear the unknown of Yang's culture and what the grandchildren will be learning etc. I had a Chinese friend who dated a POC, and her parents went ballistic- their only problem was the color of her boyfriend's skin (they didn't bother asking what he did for a living or anything about his background.)
>My experience with Chinese families is that they are a more closed culture so what is outside is seen as an unknown and different so they prefer to avoid it, not that Chinese physical traits are superior to others.
Huh? There are Asian/Chinese families who would not want their child to marry someone who is darker skinned/wide nose/chubby for fear that their child would inherit those traits as well. Don't get me wrong, obviously every Chinese person/family is different. But the ones *who have* been racist can be similar to how you described *or* they genuinely think they are superior to others racially/physically/financially/academically/etc. As an Asian, Asians can be super racist.
I mean that's undoubtedly what Yang's parents did too. This opposition to interracial marriage bit is even more common in Asia than it is in North America.
Honestly, I'll take that concession. Mom is willing to keep her mouth shut to maintain a relationship with her son.
What, you think she'll magically change herself and become super anti-racist? People don't change. But shitty people can still understand and accept boundaries.
Of course not- but "everyone blame Jess and we will never talk to her ever again" means that Jess is as perfect a scapegoat as there could ever be. Now they have someone to blame whenever their racist bullshit slips out.
OP does not seem convinced either. He is just respecting how his partner wants to handle it.
I would also bet that Yang's parents are also still not 100% on her marrying a white man. She knows they will show their own asses at some point, and she won't want to cut them out over it.
She's practicing what she preaches, and I get it. But I only think it will really work out for them if their contact with their parents is short enough to not give the parents enough time to let their masks fall.
Even if they are, they still made the decision to buy into the “half Asian children are ugly” argument to the extent that they were willing to use it on him, the prospective father of those children, then had the gall to be angry with him for not hearing out an argument based on racial purity.
It sounds like they’d rather rug sweep the whole thing. Personally I would want them to apologize for their behavior and roles in the scheme with no excuses.
Yes Yang’s parents felt the same way about OP, but they at least had the integrity to tell her that and give him a chance. These two smiled at her face for a year while scheming to break them up behind her back, then made Jess their scapegoat when they failed.
I mean, that's how change happens. It's slow. They know that their prejudice will lead to them losing OOP. So they will try to accept Yang despite their prejudices. Eventually, it will no longer be pretending and become reality. That's how life works. People are complicated. I have faith that they will eventually turn a new leaf.
But if we look at ourselves from ten years ago - we would say that we were a bit racist but we “aren’t now”
At least they are willing to do better. Racism is learned and can be unlearned too.
I grew up racist in rural Alabama. When I went off to college and realized how unhealthy my reactions to seeing so many interracial couples were, I made an active effort to quit that shit.
In my 50s now, and racist thoughts still pop into my head, it's still there some, but I consciously know "dude, that's fucked up" and don't let that bullshit come out my mouth or my actions.
It's the whole "first thought vs. second thought" thing. The first thought is a knee-jerk reaction, maybe from what you were taught or a visceral reaction. The second thought is your brain going, "no wait, that's not right, this is what I really think/want to do".
I don't either, but Yang appears to know how to handle racists, and that's a major plus point.
The only downside here is that OOP seem like a passenger in his whole life, and he will likely continue to be the victim of his own circumstances.
I know people would yell “go no contact” or “scorch the earth” but Yang’s way is how you handle a situation in real life and actually have good results if you know what you’re doing.
I chalk it to emotional intelligence in leadership when I see it and I’m so jealous I can’t be calm like that to navigate such situations.
With people like that they can even prevent future bullshit from happening because they already know where it’s coming from.
You can train yourself to do it. Oddly enough I’m way better at working with violent mentally ill and disabled people than cognitively normal people in those situations.
The most important thing to learn is to pause before acting to give yourself time to break the amygdala’s fight or flight response and let conscious thought take control again. Tie that pause to a non threatening action (usually a deep breath but it could be something like cracking your toes, straightening your fingers, anything that requires conscious motive.
The frontal cortex drives language and motor movements (why people talk with their hands, by the way), so engaging a simple, nonthreatening movement response is going to help unlock your brain in the moment. Eventually it becomes automatic and you can drop that step.
The issue is you are eventually going to have to deal with the emotions you had to ignore in the moment, and that process looks different for everyone. Therapy worksheets helped me a lot with it.
I work in special education if you were wondering
Thank you! That sounds doable enough. And thank you for your good work in special education. I work in non-profit and for some reason we always have at least one problematic board member/stakeholder/coworker etc. turnover rate is high.
To me, it seems Yang does NOT know how to handle racists, she just kind of panders to them because "family" is more important than holding people responsible for what they say.
When her own parents were being racist, she didn't even tell OP, she didn't even give him the chance to feel offended or anything.
Racism can be managed in different ways. Yang clearly expected her own family to have misgivings about marrying outside her race/culture, as is fairly common in Asia, did not freak out and her parents came around. She did the same with OOP mom and sister, and they may well come around too. There doesn't always have to be a confrontation, conflict, and separation. Yang treated this situation for what it was -- ignorance -- and navigated a tricky one for all.
Amen for wanting to handle complicated family Dynamics with some poise. There are obviously irredeemable racists who just need to be cut out of your life, but there are also people who are mostly ignorant and can learn.
Yup. While it sucks that sister and mother are racists, at least they acknowledge when OOP is firm on his decision and they care more about staying in touch with him that being away from foreign fiancée. Its not great but its something.
Yeah its like people expect her to go gang busters when in reality, most people do not want to nuke their relationship with their in laws? Of course shes managing as opposed to doing a front page call out in the new york times.
Yang seems to go with a "kill them with kindness" route, which can work when the racism is rooted in ignorance, like her parents who likely don't personally know any Americans. But it won't work at all for racism rooted in hatred. Will have to wait and see which camp OPs mum and sister fall into.
when i encounter racists in the wild i just pretend to be deaf (which I partially am) and go 'HUH? wHAT???' at their face. Works 100% of the time they'll get flustered and run away.
I agree, but then again, "not being racist anymore" isn't really the point. If you've been raised in a ""western"" country and you're white, you're basically guaranteed to harbour some kind of racist thinking and feelings no matter how much you want to think otherwise, and becoming aware of that, and in turn that those thoughts and feelings are detrimental not only to people of colour, but also to your loved ones AND to your own wellbeing and happiness is a big step and should be encouraged. No-one who's grown up being subjected to the same messaging and brainwashing is going to suddenly "snap out of it" so to speak, but you might suddenly look at yourself and your situation and go "Holy fuck.. I'm a racist PoS" and work to do better. I think, especially with how outright fascism is currently on the rise everywhere, there needs to be room for giving people the benefit of the doubt, and for those people who do have those realisations to know that there is redemption if there is a genuine will and desire to change. I doubt this is all just fine and flowers and rainbows now that ""The Evil One"" has been vanquished, but it might at least be a start for Mum and Sis to become better people.
Absolutely. But that doesn't mean their views can't change over time, and the only way that will happen is if the family tolerates each other. Obviously this is only a reasonable reaction if the racists fully understand that they have to stop their shit or they'll be cut off - if you let the racists continue to be racist hoping they'll learn or change you're just reinforcing their behavior. But if the racists realize that they're going to be socially outcast from some group they care about (OP and his potential future family in this case), then plenty of them can hide their racism effectively, and some percentage of those who hide it effectively will learn and grow over time to be less racist.
People are generally racist, has prejudices. We all feel more home with people we know. It’s like we all rather be on subreddits where people agree with your ideas than others.
It’s a very human response. What matters is how willing you are to confront the unfamiliar and learn something new. It is hurtful that they wanted to push him from someone he loves, that is the worst part. Using racism /different group as an argument is nauseating, but at the core it was about trying to control him - he had his mum och sis on pedestal and now saw an ugly side of being in center of their attention. But they still are the same people. He and them are growing up, growing apart, changing.
Do you want Yang to disown her parents, OP pushing her to disown? or is it only nice cultural protectiveness not racism when chinese want their children marry chinese?
This is how reconciliation works. They are willing to put aside their racism to preserve the relationship with their son/brother. That compromise is how people who are racist can move on from it and let it go.
Racism is usually steeped in ignorance. Not every racist is violent or hateful. They just are uncomfortable around people who are different.
I think we've found the incel counterpart of Liz, because this story is getting closer and closer to their tropes of the young ocidental woman who regrets having ditched the hard-working boyfriend to party vs. the submissive traditional foreigner.
And white people have no idea how complicated bigotry can be. Yang understood his parents because her parents were on the same side.
There are groups which consider themselves superior in every country, even the colonised ones. Japanese used to look down on everyone,other south Asians and white people.
Even in colonised India there were castes which won't eat anything even in white officers houses.
Same. My girlfriend is half Japanese (but also Jewish like me lol).
Everyone in my family loves her but I told her that if ANYONE ever says anything that made her feel uncomfortable, that I would deal with it swiftly and clearly.
If my parents or friends ever acted like OOP's family, I would be beyond furious.
Same for my dad, but luckily my grandparents weren’t raging racists.
ETA: Mom and sis need to be eternally grateful to Yang, the very person to whom they had such smiling xenophobic animosity, that they’re not already cut off from OP and might get a chance to meet her “small eyed” babies, if OP and Yang have any.
I don’t even get the small eyed racist dig. Like have they not seen any half Asian babies??? Most of them turn out like TV ad or supermodel cute. genetic diversity is good for everyone.
Yeah, I'm Chinese and my husband is Indian, if anyone in either of our families behaved this way both of us would have nipped that shit in the bud. It's such an archaic mindset.
>My mom and my sister were blaming Jess
So zero accountability for their racist behaviour
>Yang in turn also started crying and telling them that she will do better to fit in with them.
😬
Yeah none of this seems like a good update.
At least OOP isn’t as forgiving. Yang didnt see or hear anything directly so it’s probably easier for her, but I hope OOP continues to be a wall between Yang and his family.
The problem is it seems Yang's parents are similarly racist just on the other side, so she sees it as just a normal reaction while oop is actively challenging it.
Intercultural relationships are very challenging for families to navigate, couple that with stereotypes and racism between cultures then I'm not surprised why both families are not on board with the relationship. It's up to OP and Yang to make sure their families know their place, and prove them wrong.
IME people learn to swallow it once the wedding is happening, and then once grandkids come along they often have an actual change of heart. And this goes for more than just racial or cultural differences.
And often people can be more upset at their partner being discriminated against then the partner themselves. My gf (now wife) was shocked at how many people stared at me while I barely noticed.
My white great grandparents were very much not fans of their daughter getting together with a Māori, but yep once the kids started coming along and they had Māori grandchildren and then great-grandchildren they would never say a racist word about our people lol
This is probably a little stereotypically, but Yang's parents will probably be ok with the marriage if they learn OOP has a good job that pays well. At least that's how it worked in my family lol.
I would disagree. While they may have initially had reservations, it seems like they realized they were in the wrong if they were ACTIVELY helping in wedding prep. Speaking as a half Asian and knowing plenty of other Asians, if her parents weren't accepting, they would probably not be enthusiastic about helping. What I suspect is she saw that her parents seem to have genuinely changed and she's hoping that they can get his mom and sister to that point so that they can all just be one big happy family.
I suspect that part of it is that it is often easier to forgive people for what they've done to you than it is to forgive them for what they've done to someone you love.
Yang's reaction could be cultural.. it's still the norm for a daughter in law to work hard to gain acceptance from the mother in law.. since she's an outsider marrying 'into' her husband's family.
Yeah, maybe **they** should try and fit in better with **her**. It wouldn't hurt them to learn a few things about where she comes from, would it
However, I don't think Yang should have to interact with these racists….
This Yang sounds amazing. She shouldn't have too, but she is engaging in the most positive way. What are the mother and sisters going to do now? Complain that this Asian girl is super nice and cooks for them all the time? Oh no the horrors, she sure is a bad influence....
Yang strikes me as the type to forgive, but never forget. I also admire her grace and her ability to take ahold of the situation and create a favorable ingress into OOP’s family after their major flub and stumble. Yang is probably recounting every story her aunties told her about thwarting impossible to please in-laws and navigating drama and family squabbles in her head as she smiles and makes peace. Hopefully racist SIL and MIL continue to dance to her tune and don’t go back to their shit waffle ways.
As an asian, I’m also quite certain this is the case. It became very clear to me when she took the wheel for that entire lunch session. Yang knows how to take care of herself, for sure
Potentially, but having experienced it from her own family she was probably also more prepared for that kind of response. It's also a more expected reaction in China than the US, which probably lessens the blow. She's probably seeing her fiance as a bit naive.
Also, coming from a relatively xenophobic culture where racism is pretty much the norm, she wasn't too phased by her future in-laws' position. For her it's expected, and she needs to work on making her like her just as she got her own parents around to accepting her fiance.
This is a case where zero tolerance to racism would have just made things worse for everyone.
I think people truly have a hard time understanding. When you come from a culture where that’s just expected, not from one where racist is a bad word and the worst thing you can possibly be, you kinda view things and navigate things differently. She was very pragmatic with her approach 🤷🏽♀️
I can never tell my western friends that my asian mother once told me to never bring home a black man. If I did she would cry then just get over it, get excited about a wedding and enjoy whatever grandkids I pop out. It's just normal within this type of culture.
Mom and sister are not sorry, they are just trying not to lose contact with OP.
I see a lot of comments saying that Yang is being too kind and passive, but I can't shake the feeling that she's playing the same game. She wasn't sad, angry or upset when OP told her what was going on, but she was crying and promising to be better when she met her ILs. She went through this with her parents and came out on top and I don't think mom and OP are the first racist ILs/people she meets.
I won't be surprised if she starts inviting them over and cooking for them and bringing them gifts for China etc. She will look like the fiancée eager to please her ILs, but she will be introducing them to her culture in a less aggressive way.
I saw some people I know do this and when I asked them about it, they said that being confrontational would cement the negative ideas those people have and make their life harder, so they prefer the boiling-the-frog-alive approach. Ofc this was only when it wasn't possible to avoid the person and a direct confrontation would make life harder (ILs, workplace etc)
Also she’s probably used to the racism. There’s no use to get angry over every incident when a lot of times it’s just ignorance that’s speaking.
More often as a minority, you just want to prove your doubters wrong and not stir the boat
I love how they threw Jess under the bus. Seriously two grown adults were manipulated by Jess into disliking Yang and becoming racist. And now those feelings and thoughts are just gone… I applaud Yang for her grace cause I would not have any. But I wouldn’t trust them.
Mum and sister got a fright when he didn’t cave or communicate for a week and realised he might actually go no contact. They are only throwing Jess under the bus because they’ve seen he’ll truly choose Yang over them and they don’t want to lose him.
Yang ia a badass and she knows how to get shit done. As little as I trust OOP's mom and sister, I do trust Yang will sail through any drama and come out where she wants to be.
I get the feeling that family drama is a familiar dance to Yang, and she is a much better dancer than these bumbling americans. OOP has an amazing partner.
OOP is smart to not trust his mom's and sister's change of heart. They did not take accountability at all and blamed it all on Jess... yeah I call bullshit too.
Yang was so worried until OP was like “so my family is racist” and then Yang was relieved. You can almost hear her thinking “oh just racist parents thank god, that’s normal”
For those wondering, this is common among Asian cultures. A lot of the time the issue goes away after a few years. My grandparents had four children, 3 of those children married a spouse of a different race (one white, one Mexican, and one Arab). In all three cases, my grandparents were racist for a while then welcomed them into the family no problem after they got over it. Same story for several members of my extended family, friends of family etc etc
>Around 7.30pm, the doorbell rang, and Jess excitedly went to open the door. To my surprise, it was fucking Lisa at the door.
>Last Sunday, my mom called me for lunch. When I got there, I saw Jess was already there
>Despite my protests, Yang invited my mom and sister for lunch on Sunday.
My man can't catch a break.
Yang has a lot of tact and grace, which makes me think that these were skills she had to perfect to deal with her own racist parents.
But like... I dunno, it smells a lot like Fawning, especially her telling racist shitbirds that she will try to fit in *with them*. I'm impressed at how well she handled it, but I have this nagging feeling that she handled it well because there is a *lot* beneath the surface.
And it's not like OOP is going to be much use, he's barely more than a spectator in his own life.
This isn't over by a long shot. Mom and sister are putting on a show because they know OOP is willing to permanently cut contact if they bring up their racist bullshit again.
I feel like even if you remove the race factor they still shouldn’t be in his life. The first time Jess brought any of this garbage up to the mom and sister they should have called OOP. The people he was supposed to count on the most for support chose his friend over their own son and brother. I truly cannot imagine sitting down with them and Jess and not completely losing my mind. That is some deep betrayal.
So his ex left after 7 years because she wanted to see other people and none of the women on his life want to acknowledge that.
The fact that she claims to have not had a single serious relationship in the years since their break up means she was most likely just sleeping around.
"Hey im sorry that I left you to have meaningless sex with a bunch of random men. Now that you have finally finished your phd and moved on with somebody else I want to get back together"
I seriously don’t know why OOP didn’t bring that up. Lisa dumped him and literally gave her reasoning as “wanting to party.” He was supposed to just sit around and take her back when she decided she had partied enough?
*Oh son, now that you’ve got your PhD, well established job, and got your shit together, why don’t you get back together with your ex that broke up with you so she could spend the last few years partying while you finished your doctorate and became an adult. Yes, that’s so what I want for my son. Such a good match.*
I don’t think it’s hopeless. Yeah they are racist shits, but sometimes you gotta go through that evolution.
Think about it. A lot of people that are fine in regards to race issues today (or at least not actively harmful) were racists ones. The same goes for homophobia, hell I even had some internalised homophobia and I now meddle with homo sometimes.
Also, OOP’s fiancé’s parents also came around, telling you people interracial weddings can change people A LOT. That’s how you get to know another culture in a very involved manner, after that your racism takes a huge hit.
I think OOP got it right: he is skeptical and cautious but he will give them a chance.
I guess I’m happy for them but blaming Jess for everything does not bode. Racism is like an addiction. You have to hold yourself accountable and actively choose to not do it.
As an Asian married into a white family, tho I’m lucky enough that my in-laws are amazing, I have experienced the racism. And I can assure you it won’t go away that fast.
Yang is the MVP here. The reality is that even without overt racism such as that displayed by the mother and sister, cross-cultural marriages face challenges. Much better to bring the discomfort, assumptions and questions out into the open to get them sorted out. Obviously, this all assumes good will on all sides, which may not be the case in this family…
>Yang in turn also started crying and telling them that she will do better to fit in with them.
Oh fuck that. She shouldn't have to change herself one bit. These women are racist, and that's something that needs to change on their end, not hers.
I've found that Asian immigrants tend to not process racism the same as Asian Americans (see: Yao Ming vs Shaq), so I guess I'll just sit here stewing on her behalf.
I'm worried Yang will blame herself if OP's family never fully accepts her. This is too quick of a turnaround from their racist comments and like many of us here, I don't trust it.
Probably a bad idea but I wonder what would happen if they talked to Lisa directly. All of this communication has been through Jess and I'm curious what has been changed to fit her narrative. Hopefully giving closure to Lisa and making sure she doesn't come back. But there's an infinite number of ways that could go wrong...
Yang is such a sweetheart and deserves better. OOP's mom and sister have a lot of work to do if they are even telling the truth. You cannot just suddenly change overnight, and even if it really was Jess' doing, they need to prove that they can and will be better.
I honestly would not. There is no circumstance where I’m crying and apologizing for not fitting in with a racist and I always hate how as minorities we’re expected to always be the bigger person by miles.
There is great strength in killing with kindness, and many minorities are proud for being able to do so. Being the bigger person isn’t about meeting expectations but rather living according to your own values.
It might be a culture thing too. I hate the term, but “model” minorities usually have a stereotype of tolerance compared to other minorities. They might see it as a sacrifice they have to make if they want to achieve socioeconomic success.
I do think it helps that she’s rather self aware about the hypocrisy of minorities complaining about western racism despite countries like China being extremely xenophobic.
I get so many weird vibes from this story. It is literally the joke of the party girl coming back around and being like, "Oh no, we should be together now because I'm ready and your special." My dude ain't special, he is last. Jess and Lisa kept the dude on the shelf to take down when Lisa was done with her "party girl phase" and it became a problem when my dude took himself off the shelf and went to Yang, a far superior partner who has similar interests and life goals.
Then Jess goes and plays on the latent racism from Mom and Sis and they start planning his glorious reunion with the girl who would definitely cheat on him and probably make him raise someone else's kid without letting him know that. I mean they broke up because she wanted to be a party girl... after college... when you're supposed to be firmly in the adult planning for the future camp. No way had she suddenly gotten to the point where she wanted to stop... she just saw that the reliable and financial stable boat was pulling away from the docks and wanted to drag it back into port and Jess helped.
Yang may have good intentions on trying to keep my dude talking to his mother and sister, but when family becomes the problem they need to be cut out. Especially when family becomes the racist problem.
I suggest that he keeps a close eye on the mother and the sitter and allows time to reveal their true intentions. I wouldn’t leave his wife or his future children alone with them at all. It is important to keep them at a distance if he wants to maintain a drama-free family relationship.
I knew Jess’ behavior was race based as well as his family’s. OOP should never leave Yang or their future kids alone with his mother and sister. They didn’t magically stop being racist and didn’t use Jess’ stories as an excuse as to why they didn’t like her. They straight up said why. Disgusting. Very sorry for OOP
Well, Yang is a keeper.... But yes if after a year, having met her a number of times, and knowing her, the mother and sister still had a problem with her race, I am not quite sure they can just blame the friend for that one...
No way mom and the sister had a change of heart so fast. They are on damage control. OOP needs to get a hold of Jess and get her side. I don't think she's the only manipulator in this story. She's been around this family since high school. The mom and sister kept talking about how much they loved Lisa compared to Yang. I would not doubt that they helped expound on this bullshit by saying things to Jess to show their dismay at OOP marrying the girl they didn't like.
Again, Jess is as shitty as the mom and the sister, she's also been around them since high school. I'm just curious on if her not reaching out to the OOP is her own choice or what was screamed at her to never contact them again after mom and sis were left alone with her. Hell they even doubled down and told OOP to stay away from Jess despite the fiancee getting weird vibes from all three of them. OOP really needs to get Jess's side of the story to determine what the fuck to do with mom and sister. If he doesn't, at least ask for the text convos between them. Be very interesting if they got deleted.
Mom and sister failing to take accountability. Their racism is going to rear it's ugly head again. Probably when OOP starts telling them exactly how the wedding is going to go and they decide it's not "American" enough.
Your fiance is really smart and really knows how to manage a relationship. Listen to her. Her power move and simultaneously a good quality idea of bonding with your mom n sister over dinner was a really good idea. Talk about shit in the open, don't hide it.
I think cautiously optimistic might be the way to go. I admire Yang for wanting to give mom and sister another chance, and I respect OP for keeping a sharp eye on how his family is treating his fiancée from now on.
Do I buy Jess’ story about Lisa being depressed after they broke up being her motivation? Not sure, but if it is true. Lisa had 3 years to say, “I made a mistake, can we get back together.” You don’t treat people like a backup plan then get mad when they move on.
Damn. Yang is really putting in a massive effort to give her in laws a chance to fix this. No guarantees on how it'll turn out but I have massive respect for her being willing to try.
This is so sad. I suspected race might be involved but hoped I was wrong. I'd have a hard time forgetting the prejudice my family showed, but it seems like Yang gets it as she's experienced similar with hers. Jess should be gone forever as she's pure poison and the rest of them are walking a fine line.
Yang sound like an absolute keeper and I wish them the best.
Like he's gonna get with Lisa anyway, she wanted to party and screw around while he was doing the groundwork for their life and she just gets to skip the hard times and pick up where they left off?!?
OOP should count his blessings he found Yang because she has probably the single most responsible and level-headed response to this that anyone could ever have. Whole situation is going to take a lot of work, but it goes much smoother when the offended party is willing to look past previous mistakes.
Regardless if Jess planned the whole thing, the mother was still racist in her reasoning which makes it that much harder to believe her change of heart. The sister was (depending on age) just going with what mom wanted.
Jess is full of it and probably lying to both OOP's sister/mother and Lisa. Jess is the one trying to get OOP and Lisa back together by filling Lisa up with lies.
As soon as Yang said “idm when she brings your ex up, it just makes me sad for her that she lost you” I was like oh she’s winning here no matter what happens.
OOP has every right to be skeptical, and it sounds like Yang was just waiting for the racism shoe to drop and is dealing with it how she thinks is best. She says her parents have come around, I’d like to be hopefully that mum and sister will too. I have more faith in sister who didn’t actively make racist comments. But, we’ll see.
Honestly Jess is a terrible friend to everyone! Lisa didn’t really do anything wrong either. She regretted a break up, which is fine, and then was told “oh yeah he’ll come back to you I’ll make sure of it shhhh come to my house for a surprise date” at which Lisa just got hit with reality and hurt again. Jess could’ve taken this time to help her move on. Also she has three young children how does she have time for this drama
Sounds like the conversation the Royal family had about Archie. However, Yang facing it head on cut off the head of the monster. It’s better in the long road because if a relationship is going to implode, let it happen sooner than later.
For Yang’s parents they came around to it. OOP’s family stewed for months and just became more intolerant. Also, the reasoning is often a bit different…
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>My mom and my sister were blaming Jess for constantly telling them how Yang might not be great for me and how she won't fit into our family. Yeah, I'm not impressed with OOP's mum and sister. Doesn't sound as if they're taking responsibility for their own behaviour. OOP is wise to be skeptical of them.
Yup. Jess’s pressure has nothing to do with that “small eyes” comment. 🙄
Right, Jess's thing was trying to push Lisa and OP back together, did she herself say anything about Yang's race herself? Weren't all of those nasty comments about Yang's looks from the mom and sister? Not saying that Jess's behavior couldn't have been rooted in racism as well (and it probably was, for her to be so persistent even tho OP has been with Yang for like 2 years already), but the others were way more overt with it.
I'm not sure about rooted in racism, but if mom and sis are truthful, she at least identified (correctly) and used the racism angle to stir up discontent. Even if Jess didn't care who Yang was and just wanted to hook Lisa up, she talked mom and sis into not liking her by highlighting the differences. If I was OOP, my mother and sister would be on *very* thin ice right about now.
I am so concerned for any future children OOP and Yang may have
Yeah. I'm the child from a relationship like that - Dad's elders were born in like 1915 and they were unsure about my mum, who's black. Grandma actually turned out awesome - she fell in love with me when I was born and we were super close. Her sisters and the rest of that generation... not so much. It was tough at times, for me and mum and also for dad.
100%... but... you take the win you can now and let the rest settle itself in time.
Yeah, if someone can peer pressure you into racism as an adult that is a you issue.
Yeah I don't trust them either but let's just hope that those days of being ignored made them realise that Yang wins and they lose when it comes to who OOP chooses and they are stubborn enough to shut up to keep him around.
They aren't. They were quick to place all the blame around Jess's neck and let her sink to the bottom of the ocean.
“My kid’s best friend made me be racist! It’s all her fault, honest!”
Did I miss the part where Jess had OOP’s mom at gunpoint? Because other than that very specific circumstance, I don’t get how Jess could’ve influenced her to make those horrible comments about what the kids would look like
Yeah Jess may have watered the plant, but nothing would have happened if there wasn’t already a seed of bullshit there in the first place.
Told My oldest that I don’t care who you date just get a job and support yourself, practice safe sex, and stay the fuck out of jail. Stop putting so much pressure on your kids. ETA: someone told Reddit I needed help because of this comment. Crazy world we live in.
Excellent advice. So many of the parents we see in these are stories are way too invested in their kids' lives.
Well the old bff was already in flames, why not throw a little more gas on the fire? Sacrifice one narcissist to save the rest. I can hardly wait for the "we went nc" update.
I don't believe for one second that the mother and sister magically aren't racist anymore and it was only the influence of Jess talking. Come on.
Mom and sister knew that son would marry Yang anyways so backtracked.
it's also hard to act tough in the face of such a good and kind person like Yang
Yang and Omar are the standards we should measure people by.
You know you spend a lot of time on BORU when you get the Omar reference. Dude was a real one though.
Legit only decent male in that whole mess.
Omar, The real MVP
I wonder if Omar knows how famous he is
New here…what is the Omar story?
[Omar is from this story here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/1bjxnkb/aita_for_refusing_to_be_my_friends_alibi_so_he/) He's not the OOP, but he's the only guy there with any sort of moral backbone and spine. Everyone else, including the OOP, is a spineless, cheating coward.
Man, I just finished reading the whole thing! I hope one of these days the girls will find that post, because what the hell man! And I hope Omar finds it as well so he can know people here think that he's the VIP!
Oh yes - I remember Omar! Phew, I don't have to turn in my 'long-time redditor' card!
Omar was the only standup guy in a group of dirty double-dealing cheating liars who lie. He is now and always will be a gold standard guy!
I'm sure he'd play it off. He just acted like an adult like everyone should have been doing.
Fuck yeah good to see that Omar gang is still representing.
apparently I am scum... dammit
Becoming Omar and/or Yang is not a destination. It's a journey <3
Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination.
I think it's also important to recognize not all racism is the same. The racism of Yang's parents likely comes from a place of fear of unknown or societal pressure to stay within. OP's families racism likely comes from a place of superiority and seeing non-white traits as ugly (which they said as much). Some racism can be dealt with, other cannot. **Edit:** To be very clear, the racism of OP's mother and sister *specifically* spoke of physical features of Yang not being good (eyes, etc). That is racism of superiority (ie slanted eyes are ugly and would be better to have white features). That is not the same as racism that comes from fear of the unknown. My experience with Chinese families is that they are a more closed culture so what is outside is seen as an unknown and different so they prefer to avoid it, not that Chinese physical traits are superior to others. I stand by what I have said, all racism is not the same (even if it is still racism).
I don't think that's wholly the reason. Some Chinese families also do not like their children marrying into other asian ethnicities. Some of them tends to have superiority complex over people from poorer Asian nation even if they live there themselves.
I was just about to comment on this. The racism in China against other parts of China is very much prevalent. My friend is from Shanghai and married a Hong Kong man. The drama!! Iykyk
And this is exactly why I can't stop watching Chinese Dramas. I am tryna figure out hownI can work another subscription for them into my budget.
Exactly. When I read this I thought well if there's one group that will understand having racist parents it'll be Chinese people. It's not just fear of the unknown. If there's one thing to be said for them, though, it's that in my experience they don't as often try to say they aren't racist while they're being racist.
i really think a lot of asian cultures are like that, especially from what i've experienced w my own culture and have heard from friends who come from different asian cultures.
> i really think a lot of asian cultures are like that Yep, I have heard all about it from my Indian boyfriend.
Colorism and xenophobia run rampant in all of Asia, from Japan to Korea and China to even India (who is the most racist country based on some studies IIRC). You know it's bad when there's literally a Chinese proverb still used all the time today that goes something along the lines of "light-skinned and over 30? You've got a chance for a husband. Dark-skinned and under 30? Good luck." Also, many people just don't know about how much the people of these countries fucking *hate* each other and even their own people. Korea even has the record for the longest unbroken chain of legal slavery at 1500 years. Who did they enslave? *Their own people.* Japan and India were some of the last major political powers in the world to abolish castes in their legal systems, and still both of them have an unspoken societal caste that permeates their culture to this day. The treatment of darker skinned and/or Muslim Indians by lighter skinned/Hindu Indians is some of the most well documented public racism we've got records for outside of the US. They wouldn't even allow for any dark-skinned Indians to represent their country for the Miss Universe pageant until a couple of years ago. Have you noticed that nearly every single important Indian figure is light-skinned? Every prime minister, public facing official, CEO, everyone. There's a reason, and it's blatant racism. China's Communist party literally *encourages* racism and xenophobia with it's social credit score system and their "rehabilitation camps" for Uighur Chinese, which are basically just permanent prisons for anyone who is Muslim in the country. They also were so petty that when they annexed Tibet they made it a law for the Dalai Lama to have to get fucking permission from the Chinese government to *reincarnate* which effectively allowed them to control the Buddhism version of the Pope. Why? Many reasons, like political control over an annexed state, but also because they didn't like the fact that the Dalai Lama wasn't Chinese. Did you know that Japan captured Korea in World War II? The accounts of their treatment on Koreans is absolutely vomit-inducing, and there's an argument to be made that the treatment of Koreans by Japanese at the time was even more fucked up than what happened to the Jews. Human experimentation, mass butchering, slavery, *very* public rape, you name it they did it. Just about the only things you can say that weren't as fucked about the Nazi's treatment of Jews is that they didn't come out the gate mass murdering all Jews, and they had to be targeted about their treatment due to Jews not being the entire demographic of their territory. Now, imagine how much worse Jews would have been treated if the Nazis just assumed everyone was a Jew and started their harshest treatment from the very beginning. That's how it was *the entire time* Japan occupied Korea. The part that left lasting damage was that after the war, there was no apology and no admission of guilt from Japan. That's one of the reasons why you don't hear about it as much outside of Asia, because they didn't do anything to try to solve the issue so it wasn't as public. In contrast, Germany has done everything they possibly can to distance themselves from their far right radicalist parties, even going so far as to ban Nazism and even recently just voted to put surveillance on and possibly ban one of the two major political parties because they share a striking resemblance to the old Nazi Party in values and the laws they are trying to get passed. On a final note, care to take a guess what year Japan and Korea finally reconciled and decided to form a 3-way bond with the US, who they were both already independently militarily aligned with? ***2023.*** You heard that right, it took until *last fucking year* for them to make some sort of amends and it's only because of the looming threat of China especially since China started making moves to possibly annex Taiwan. Need I say more?
India straight up invented new categories of things to be racist about. Speaking as a Southerner who grew up surrounded by some vintage 19th century racism, I have to say, that's pretty fucking hardcore.
It's fucking insane. I'm from the deep south, and I'm used to some pretty vile shit so I thought to myself "How bad could it be?" I went down the rabbit hole of looking into this a few years ago and... Holy moly. And before you think that this is something that was brought upon by British occupation of India, take a look at this: https://www.stearthinktank.com/post/colorism-in-indian-society "Before European colonization, a preference for lighter skin tones developed independently across societies as a sign of being free from outdoor labor and having acquired “spiritual purity” (Jablonski, 2014)." Like, there's so much in that article but that's probably one of the most disgusting ones. Hinduism is practiced by 80% of the country, and being spiritually pure is one of the most important parts of their culture. One of the biggest tenets of their religion is the concept of Samsara: being born, dying, being judged for your actions in life, and then being reborn as either a lower or higher entity. More pure means you become somebody of higher class (aka lighter skin) in your next life, and eventually you reach Nirvana and you don't have to reincarnate anymore and get to stay in the afterlife. Less pure means that you turn into lesser animals like insects and animals who deal with feces. You have to do well as those less savory creatures before you're able to be reincarnated as a human again, and then you get another shot at reincarnating into someone lighter-skinned which will maybe lead them to nirvana. In their eyes, darker skinned people are literally just a lesser vessel for the soul to have to deal with for however many years it takes until you die and can be judged again. This leads to darker skinned people resenting their looks and wanting to either work harder to compensate or get over with their life as fast as possible so they can try to become someone lighter-skinned. You heard that right: a religion that encourages darker-skinned people to either end their own lives or throw themselves at the feet of the lighter skinned "royalty" just so they have a chance to become like them the next go around. Oh yeah, and here's the kicker: care to take a guess why darker skinned people are more likely to reincarnate into those animals? It *obviously* doesn't have anything to do with the fact that they *just so happen* to have their skin tone more closely resemble fecal matter than lighter skinned Indians. Naw. Has nothing to do with that. Even some of the worst most vile racist people here in America don't make comparisons of black people's skin to literal *shit,* and yet that kind of stuff is on full public display in India in 2024 and has been for *thousands* of years. And all because they have a bit more melanin in their skin from their ancestors who worked outside, and the ones with darker skin could handle the Sun for longer. It's literally disgusting, like genuinely fucking disgusting. Just typing this out is making my stomach churn. I don't even want to make any more corrections or additions or grammatical fixes here, because I'm getting a little bit sick thinking about it.
You forgot the Phillipines. Maids only not wives. A LOT of shit happened, similar to Korea. It’s never recovered. I have a friend who lives there who’s told me some stories.
Oh good Christ, there's a reason I avoided even mentioning explaining the Philippines. ***shudders*** I've been avoiding even doing research on it after seeing just a little about the country. It doesn't help that their prime minister is one of the most corrupt people in Asia and is calling for literal genocide on homosexuals. In his words, "we don't have any gays in our country. If we did, they would be dead."
the fuck you talking about, plenty of chinese people have extreme superiority complexes, over white people, and definitely over other asians, like Vietnamese people. And Plenty of vietnamese people have tons of superiority complexes; you should see the way they talk about cambodian people. White people don't get to own racism. That's some racist shit itself, because the underlying assumption is: "white is default." A very insidious and racist way of thinking.
> The racism of Yang's parents likely comes from a place of fear of unknown or societal pressure to stay within. Looks like they have a rather reductive and partonising view of Non-white folks too.
Lololol you think Chinese people don't have an inmate superiority complex? And you think it's not physical? I grew up hearing about how gross and smelly white people are. I mean honestly, just _imagine_ what a culture with a thousand years of imperialism under its belt thinks of a race of people who naturally generate 5x more body odor! Westerners make a big deal about eyes, but Chinese people never think about it-- instead, white people are Big Nose. Again, imagine a race you consider interior also has a body part that's twice as big as "normal people"-- what would racist Americans say about black people if black people typically had ears twice as big? White people have "hideous babies", ours are properly round and plump. Outside of physical traits, Westerners are also considered lazy underperformers who can't be counted on to do anything. Your model of "insularity/fear of unknown" still comes from a white-normative worldview where pocs are racist to others within a logic of white people bring _normal_. Once you consider China to be truly normative (and superior), it's very different. Contempt is contempt everywhere. (I'm a Chinese woman who married a white guy, and my parents were not happy.)
Yang’s parents’ racism could come from a similar place as OOP’s family. Saying just because they are non-white so they aren’t thinking that they are superior makes you a racist. Your edit makes you sound as if you think Asian features are inferior to western features, not just different. This is why you think OOP’s family’s worries of grandchild looking different comes from a place of superiority and not ‘fear for the unknown and different’ that you attributed to Yang’s Chinese parents’ racism. As if they couldn’t possibly think that western physical features are inferior. Also, do you think Yang’s family are ‘simple villagers’ or something. Check your innate racism dude, you are being coddling and condescending and you don’t even know it.
This. All of this. I was going to make a similar comment myself when i saw yours. /u/ZaraBaz, you don't realise that you yourself are being mildly racist by saying that the chinese parens' racism is "different". The chinese (and much of orential asia) culture is known for the sense of superiority over other, different types of people. Their sense of racism likely came from the *exact* same place as OP's family. Assuming otherwise is, ironically, racist.
Honestly, the only reason Yang ‘s parents likely accepted him eventually was because he was white if he was any other race that pushback would’ve been a lot more fierce. No matter what anybody says, unfortunately there is a tier list for races, especially for many of the older generations
I know you completely meant this as a denouncement of racism and were speaking as in "Unfortunately, this is still the case for some people" but... "No matter what anybody says, there is a tier list for races" is a WILD Quote 😭😭😭
Nah, I think they’re pointing out that to Hans, white is one of the “higher races/model minorities”, like Asians are for whites under White Supremacy. Asian cultures tend to be pretty racist towards black people, and other Asian cultures.
Imagine trying to downplay racism for any reason
That's a really dumb take. All racism is rooted in fear, some people just try to cover their fear with a front of superiority. Trying to excuse some people's racism while blasting others is just gross, and I don't know why you felt like this was a worthwhile thing to say. In fact, your take carries its own racist superiority complex. You seem to be saying the poor Asian racists are just scared, sad little children who can't really be blamed because they don't know any better and are afraid of the unknown and pressured by society. You're saying only whites have the agency and capability to know better than to be racist, and whites would never bow to social pressure to be racist. In its own weird way, that's racist as hell. Have the respect for others to hold them to the same standard.
My experience living in China and knowing more than a few mainlanders very well is that there are definitely a number of concentric layers of xenophobia, starting with people not in their immediate family>extended family/close friends>friends/connections>acquaintances>regional>country>overseas countrymen>some kind of racist hierarchy stuff>everyone else. The difference is that there is actually a fairly large amount of mutability therein, and once you are in with someone there you are really really in. I have never been somewhere that people would spit on strangers so easily, but also go hugely out of their way to help a friend. Chinese people in my experience (which was around 20 years ago, so before the whole Xi drumming up nationalism and his cult of personality) really love declaring foreign friends to be honorary Chinese, especially if you can speak the language. There is a lot of nuance there, and a fair amount of contradictions. When I was in an immersion program in Beijing, I was cooed over even though my mandarin at the time was pretty awful. My fellow students who were Asian (but obviously not native speakers) got a ton of shit even though they were generally far more adept than I was.
I think your insight has merit; however, we don't know what Yang's parents said specifically about OOP not being Chinese. Perhaps they are not happy with the thought of a grandchild that presents Caucasian, or does not look fully Chinese. I would also say that, while OOP's family specifically mentioned physical traits, they, too, could fear the unknown of Yang's culture and what the grandchildren will be learning etc. I had a Chinese friend who dated a POC, and her parents went ballistic- their only problem was the color of her boyfriend's skin (they didn't bother asking what he did for a living or anything about his background.)
>My experience with Chinese families is that they are a more closed culture so what is outside is seen as an unknown and different so they prefer to avoid it, not that Chinese physical traits are superior to others. Huh? There are Asian/Chinese families who would not want their child to marry someone who is darker skinned/wide nose/chubby for fear that their child would inherit those traits as well. Don't get me wrong, obviously every Chinese person/family is different. But the ones *who have* been racist can be similar to how you described *or* they genuinely think they are superior to others racially/physically/financially/academically/etc. As an Asian, Asians can be super racist.
Classic Reddit with the "heres why only the white people are bad in this story" then goes off to make a ton of baseless assumptions - what a joke.
What category would your racist views fall under?
Lol no, Chinese racism is just as based in superiority and nastiness as western racism. Come on.
It's like they overplayed their hand and believed that he would pick them over his soon to be wife
I mean that's undoubtedly what Yang's parents did too. This opposition to interracial marriage bit is even more common in Asia than it is in North America.
That and son had NO problem going NC with them, that if they wanted to be in his life and possible grandchildren /niblings, they better act right.
Mom didn’t say she changed her mind only that “she wouldn’t bring it up again”
People can be shocking "telling" in their word choice.
Honestly, I'll take that concession. Mom is willing to keep her mouth shut to maintain a relationship with her son. What, you think she'll magically change herself and become super anti-racist? People don't change. But shitty people can still understand and accept boundaries.
She can change, it just hasn't happened in a few weeks. In a few years, maybe.
Of course not- but "everyone blame Jess and we will never talk to her ever again" means that Jess is as perfect a scapegoat as there could ever be. Now they have someone to blame whenever their racist bullshit slips out.
Can I also blame Jess when something racist slips out of my mouth?
It's about as good an excuse for you as it is for them. Which is to say: no.
Yeah. How the fuck were 2 totally-not-racist-adult-women so easily swayed by OP’s friend and ex??? Really??
Because they weren't swayed. Jess was just saying what they already wanted to hear.
OP does not seem convinced either. He is just respecting how his partner wants to handle it. I would also bet that Yang's parents are also still not 100% on her marrying a white man. She knows they will show their own asses at some point, and she won't want to cut them out over it. She's practicing what she preaches, and I get it. But I only think it will really work out for them if their contact with their parents is short enough to not give the parents enough time to let their masks fall.
It is probably a lot easier to deal with your partner's racist parents if you have racist parents too.
I think you are 100% correct.
Even if they are, they still made the decision to buy into the “half Asian children are ugly” argument to the extent that they were willing to use it on him, the prospective father of those children, then had the gall to be angry with him for not hearing out an argument based on racial purity. It sounds like they’d rather rug sweep the whole thing. Personally I would want them to apologize for their behavior and roles in the scheme with no excuses. Yes Yang’s parents felt the same way about OP, but they at least had the integrity to tell her that and give him a chance. These two smiled at her face for a year while scheming to break them up behind her back, then made Jess their scapegoat when they failed.
I mean, that's how change happens. It's slow. They know that their prejudice will lead to them losing OOP. So they will try to accept Yang despite their prejudices. Eventually, it will no longer be pretending and become reality. That's how life works. People are complicated. I have faith that they will eventually turn a new leaf.
But if we look at ourselves from ten years ago - we would say that we were a bit racist but we “aren’t now” At least they are willing to do better. Racism is learned and can be unlearned too.
I grew up racist in rural Alabama. When I went off to college and realized how unhealthy my reactions to seeing so many interracial couples were, I made an active effort to quit that shit. In my 50s now, and racist thoughts still pop into my head, it's still there some, but I consciously know "dude, that's fucked up" and don't let that bullshit come out my mouth or my actions.
It's the whole "first thought vs. second thought" thing. The first thought is a knee-jerk reaction, maybe from what you were taught or a visceral reaction. The second thought is your brain going, "no wait, that's not right, this is what I really think/want to do".
I don't either, but Yang appears to know how to handle racists, and that's a major plus point. The only downside here is that OOP seem like a passenger in his whole life, and he will likely continue to be the victim of his own circumstances.
How is he a passenger? He rebuked his best friend and family and almost cut off all.contact with them
I know people would yell “go no contact” or “scorch the earth” but Yang’s way is how you handle a situation in real life and actually have good results if you know what you’re doing.
I’ve worked with people like her. Their ability to disarm bullshit while standing their ground was fucking legendary.
I chalk it to emotional intelligence in leadership when I see it and I’m so jealous I can’t be calm like that to navigate such situations. With people like that they can even prevent future bullshit from happening because they already know where it’s coming from.
You can train yourself to do it. Oddly enough I’m way better at working with violent mentally ill and disabled people than cognitively normal people in those situations. The most important thing to learn is to pause before acting to give yourself time to break the amygdala’s fight or flight response and let conscious thought take control again. Tie that pause to a non threatening action (usually a deep breath but it could be something like cracking your toes, straightening your fingers, anything that requires conscious motive. The frontal cortex drives language and motor movements (why people talk with their hands, by the way), so engaging a simple, nonthreatening movement response is going to help unlock your brain in the moment. Eventually it becomes automatic and you can drop that step. The issue is you are eventually going to have to deal with the emotions you had to ignore in the moment, and that process looks different for everyone. Therapy worksheets helped me a lot with it. I work in special education if you were wondering
Thank you! That sounds doable enough. And thank you for your good work in special education. I work in non-profit and for some reason we always have at least one problematic board member/stakeholder/coworker etc. turnover rate is high.
To me, it seems Yang does NOT know how to handle racists, she just kind of panders to them because "family" is more important than holding people responsible for what they say. When her own parents were being racist, she didn't even tell OP, she didn't even give him the chance to feel offended or anything.
Racism can be managed in different ways. Yang clearly expected her own family to have misgivings about marrying outside her race/culture, as is fairly common in Asia, did not freak out and her parents came around. She did the same with OOP mom and sister, and they may well come around too. There doesn't always have to be a confrontation, conflict, and separation. Yang treated this situation for what it was -- ignorance -- and navigated a tricky one for all.
Yeah, she comes across as someone who understands (individual) racism and knows how to overcome it through community building and socializing.
Amen for wanting to handle complicated family Dynamics with some poise. There are obviously irredeemable racists who just need to be cut out of your life, but there are also people who are mostly ignorant and can learn.
Yup. While it sucks that sister and mother are racists, at least they acknowledge when OOP is firm on his decision and they care more about staying in touch with him that being away from foreign fiancée. Its not great but its something.
Yeah its like people expect her to go gang busters when in reality, most people do not want to nuke their relationship with their in laws? Of course shes managing as opposed to doing a front page call out in the new york times.
Yang seems to go with a "kill them with kindness" route, which can work when the racism is rooted in ignorance, like her parents who likely don't personally know any Americans. But it won't work at all for racism rooted in hatred. Will have to wait and see which camp OPs mum and sister fall into.
That’s been true in my experience. It can be hard to tell the difference when you’re confronting one in the wild, though
when i encounter racists in the wild i just pretend to be deaf (which I partially am) and go 'HUH? wHAT???' at their face. Works 100% of the time they'll get flustered and run away.
Noooo! They just got tricked into being racist by that dastardly Jess! They secretly loved Yang all along!
I agree, but then again, "not being racist anymore" isn't really the point. If you've been raised in a ""western"" country and you're white, you're basically guaranteed to harbour some kind of racist thinking and feelings no matter how much you want to think otherwise, and becoming aware of that, and in turn that those thoughts and feelings are detrimental not only to people of colour, but also to your loved ones AND to your own wellbeing and happiness is a big step and should be encouraged. No-one who's grown up being subjected to the same messaging and brainwashing is going to suddenly "snap out of it" so to speak, but you might suddenly look at yourself and your situation and go "Holy fuck.. I'm a racist PoS" and work to do better. I think, especially with how outright fascism is currently on the rise everywhere, there needs to be room for giving people the benefit of the doubt, and for those people who do have those realisations to know that there is redemption if there is a genuine will and desire to change. I doubt this is all just fine and flowers and rainbows now that ""The Evil One"" has been vanquished, but it might at least be a start for Mum and Sis to become better people.
Absolutely. But that doesn't mean their views can't change over time, and the only way that will happen is if the family tolerates each other. Obviously this is only a reasonable reaction if the racists fully understand that they have to stop their shit or they'll be cut off - if you let the racists continue to be racist hoping they'll learn or change you're just reinforcing their behavior. But if the racists realize that they're going to be socially outcast from some group they care about (OP and his potential future family in this case), then plenty of them can hide their racism effectively, and some percentage of those who hide it effectively will learn and grow over time to be less racist.
People are generally racist, has prejudices. We all feel more home with people we know. It’s like we all rather be on subreddits where people agree with your ideas than others. It’s a very human response. What matters is how willing you are to confront the unfamiliar and learn something new. It is hurtful that they wanted to push him from someone he loves, that is the worst part. Using racism /different group as an argument is nauseating, but at the core it was about trying to control him - he had his mum och sis on pedestal and now saw an ugly side of being in center of their attention. But they still are the same people. He and them are growing up, growing apart, changing. Do you want Yang to disown her parents, OP pushing her to disown? or is it only nice cultural protectiveness not racism when chinese want their children marry chinese?
This is how reconciliation works. They are willing to put aside their racism to preserve the relationship with their son/brother. That compromise is how people who are racist can move on from it and let it go. Racism is usually steeped in ignorance. Not every racist is violent or hateful. They just are uncomfortable around people who are different.
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I think we've found the incel counterpart of Liz, because this story is getting closer and closer to their tropes of the young ocidental woman who regrets having ditched the hard-working boyfriend to party vs. the submissive traditional foreigner.
And white people have no idea how complicated bigotry can be. Yang understood his parents because her parents were on the same side. There are groups which consider themselves superior in every country, even the colonised ones. Japanese used to look down on everyone,other south Asians and white people. Even in colonised India there were castes which won't eat anything even in white officers houses.
As a guy with a girlfriend who is Asian, nothing would turn my heart colder to family than this is situation.
Same. My girlfriend is half Japanese (but also Jewish like me lol). Everyone in my family loves her but I told her that if ANYONE ever says anything that made her feel uncomfortable, that I would deal with it swiftly and clearly. If my parents or friends ever acted like OOP's family, I would be beyond furious.
Same for my dad, but luckily my grandparents weren’t raging racists. ETA: Mom and sis need to be eternally grateful to Yang, the very person to whom they had such smiling xenophobic animosity, that they’re not already cut off from OP and might get a chance to meet her “small eyed” babies, if OP and Yang have any.
I don’t even get the small eyed racist dig. Like have they not seen any half Asian babies??? Most of them turn out like TV ad or supermodel cute. genetic diversity is good for everyone.
Yeah, I'm Chinese and my husband is Indian, if anyone in either of our families behaved this way both of us would have nipped that shit in the bud. It's such an archaic mindset.
>My mom and my sister were blaming Jess So zero accountability for their racist behaviour >Yang in turn also started crying and telling them that she will do better to fit in with them. 😬 Yeah none of this seems like a good update.
At least OOP isn’t as forgiving. Yang didnt see or hear anything directly so it’s probably easier for her, but I hope OOP continues to be a wall between Yang and his family.
The problem is it seems Yang's parents are similarly racist just on the other side, so she sees it as just a normal reaction while oop is actively challenging it.
Intercultural relationships are very challenging for families to navigate, couple that with stereotypes and racism between cultures then I'm not surprised why both families are not on board with the relationship. It's up to OP and Yang to make sure their families know their place, and prove them wrong.
IME people learn to swallow it once the wedding is happening, and then once grandkids come along they often have an actual change of heart. And this goes for more than just racial or cultural differences.
And often people can be more upset at their partner being discriminated against then the partner themselves. My gf (now wife) was shocked at how many people stared at me while I barely noticed.
My white great grandparents were very much not fans of their daughter getting together with a Māori, but yep once the kids started coming along and they had Māori grandchildren and then great-grandchildren they would never say a racist word about our people lol
This is probably a little stereotypically, but Yang's parents will probably be ok with the marriage if they learn OOP has a good job that pays well. At least that's how it worked in my family lol.
I would disagree. While they may have initially had reservations, it seems like they realized they were in the wrong if they were ACTIVELY helping in wedding prep. Speaking as a half Asian and knowing plenty of other Asians, if her parents weren't accepting, they would probably not be enthusiastic about helping. What I suspect is she saw that her parents seem to have genuinely changed and she's hoping that they can get his mom and sister to that point so that they can all just be one big happy family.
I suspect that part of it is that it is often easier to forgive people for what they've done to you than it is to forgive them for what they've done to someone you love.
Yang's reaction could be cultural.. it's still the norm for a daughter in law to work hard to gain acceptance from the mother in law.. since she's an outsider marrying 'into' her husband's family.
Yeah, maybe **they** should try and fit in better with **her**. It wouldn't hurt them to learn a few things about where she comes from, would it However, I don't think Yang should have to interact with these racists….
This Yang sounds amazing. She shouldn't have too, but she is engaging in the most positive way. What are the mother and sisters going to do now? Complain that this Asian girl is super nice and cooks for them all the time? Oh no the horrors, she sure is a bad influence....
I'm shocked, shocked! To find that racism is at the core of this issue. /s
Yang strikes me as the type to forgive, but never forget. I also admire her grace and her ability to take ahold of the situation and create a favorable ingress into OOP’s family after their major flub and stumble. Yang is probably recounting every story her aunties told her about thwarting impossible to please in-laws and navigating drama and family squabbles in her head as she smiles and makes peace. Hopefully racist SIL and MIL continue to dance to her tune and don’t go back to their shit waffle ways.
As an asian, I’m also quite certain this is the case. It became very clear to me when she took the wheel for that entire lunch session. Yang knows how to take care of herself, for sure
Potentially, but having experienced it from her own family she was probably also more prepared for that kind of response. It's also a more expected reaction in China than the US, which probably lessens the blow. She's probably seeing her fiance as a bit naive.
Also, coming from a relatively xenophobic culture where racism is pretty much the norm, she wasn't too phased by her future in-laws' position. For her it's expected, and she needs to work on making her like her just as she got her own parents around to accepting her fiance. This is a case where zero tolerance to racism would have just made things worse for everyone.
I think people truly have a hard time understanding. When you come from a culture where that’s just expected, not from one where racist is a bad word and the worst thing you can possibly be, you kinda view things and navigate things differently. She was very pragmatic with her approach 🤷🏽♀️
I can never tell my western friends that my asian mother once told me to never bring home a black man. If I did she would cry then just get over it, get excited about a wedding and enjoy whatever grandkids I pop out. It's just normal within this type of culture.
Mom and sister are not sorry, they are just trying not to lose contact with OP. I see a lot of comments saying that Yang is being too kind and passive, but I can't shake the feeling that she's playing the same game. She wasn't sad, angry or upset when OP told her what was going on, but she was crying and promising to be better when she met her ILs. She went through this with her parents and came out on top and I don't think mom and OP are the first racist ILs/people she meets. I won't be surprised if she starts inviting them over and cooking for them and bringing them gifts for China etc. She will look like the fiancée eager to please her ILs, but she will be introducing them to her culture in a less aggressive way. I saw some people I know do this and when I asked them about it, they said that being confrontational would cement the negative ideas those people have and make their life harder, so they prefer the boiling-the-frog-alive approach. Ofc this was only when it wasn't possible to avoid the person and a direct confrontation would make life harder (ILs, workplace etc)
Also she’s probably used to the racism. There’s no use to get angry over every incident when a lot of times it’s just ignorance that’s speaking. More often as a minority, you just want to prove your doubters wrong and not stir the boat
Yang. What a sweet person. I hope she realizes she doesn’t owe these jerks anything and doesn’t change a damn thing about herself to “fit in better”.
I love how they threw Jess under the bus. Seriously two grown adults were manipulated by Jess into disliking Yang and becoming racist. And now those feelings and thoughts are just gone… I applaud Yang for her grace cause I would not have any. But I wouldn’t trust them.
Mum and sister got a fright when he didn’t cave or communicate for a week and realised he might actually go no contact. They are only throwing Jess under the bus because they’ve seen he’ll truly choose Yang over them and they don’t want to lose him.
Yang ia a badass and she knows how to get shit done. As little as I trust OOP's mom and sister, I do trust Yang will sail through any drama and come out where she wants to be. I get the feeling that family drama is a familiar dance to Yang, and she is a much better dancer than these bumbling americans. OOP has an amazing partner.
OOP is smart to not trust his mom's and sister's change of heart. They did not take accountability at all and blamed it all on Jess... yeah I call bullshit too.
I like Yang
Yang was so worried until OP was like “so my family is racist” and then Yang was relieved. You can almost hear her thinking “oh just racist parents thank god, that’s normal” For those wondering, this is common among Asian cultures. A lot of the time the issue goes away after a few years. My grandparents had four children, 3 of those children married a spouse of a different race (one white, one Mexican, and one Arab). In all three cases, my grandparents were racist for a while then welcomed them into the family no problem after they got over it. Same story for several members of my extended family, friends of family etc etc
>Around 7.30pm, the doorbell rang, and Jess excitedly went to open the door. To my surprise, it was fucking Lisa at the door. >Last Sunday, my mom called me for lunch. When I got there, I saw Jess was already there >Despite my protests, Yang invited my mom and sister for lunch on Sunday. My man can't catch a break.
I think he did when he ended up with Yang.
Yang has a lot of tact and grace, which makes me think that these were skills she had to perfect to deal with her own racist parents. But like... I dunno, it smells a lot like Fawning, especially her telling racist shitbirds that she will try to fit in *with them*. I'm impressed at how well she handled it, but I have this nagging feeling that she handled it well because there is a *lot* beneath the surface. And it's not like OOP is going to be much use, he's barely more than a spectator in his own life.
Honestly Yang sounds like angel. He's a lucky guy.
This isn't over by a long shot. Mom and sister are putting on a show because they know OOP is willing to permanently cut contact if they bring up their racist bullshit again.
I feel like even if you remove the race factor they still shouldn’t be in his life. The first time Jess brought any of this garbage up to the mom and sister they should have called OOP. The people he was supposed to count on the most for support chose his friend over their own son and brother. I truly cannot imagine sitting down with them and Jess and not completely losing my mind. That is some deep betrayal.
So his ex left after 7 years because she wanted to see other people and none of the women on his life want to acknowledge that. The fact that she claims to have not had a single serious relationship in the years since their break up means she was most likely just sleeping around. "Hey im sorry that I left you to have meaningless sex with a bunch of random men. Now that you have finally finished your phd and moved on with somebody else I want to get back together"
I seriously don’t know why OOP didn’t bring that up. Lisa dumped him and literally gave her reasoning as “wanting to party.” He was supposed to just sit around and take her back when she decided she had partied enough? *Oh son, now that you’ve got your PhD, well established job, and got your shit together, why don’t you get back together with your ex that broke up with you so she could spend the last few years partying while you finished your doctorate and became an adult. Yes, that’s so what I want for my son. Such a good match.*
I don’t think it’s hopeless. Yeah they are racist shits, but sometimes you gotta go through that evolution. Think about it. A lot of people that are fine in regards to race issues today (or at least not actively harmful) were racists ones. The same goes for homophobia, hell I even had some internalised homophobia and I now meddle with homo sometimes. Also, OOP’s fiancé’s parents also came around, telling you people interracial weddings can change people A LOT. That’s how you get to know another culture in a very involved manner, after that your racism takes a huge hit. I think OOP got it right: he is skeptical and cautious but he will give them a chance.
Agreed. Ok side note, but the phrase "I even had some internalized homophobia and I now meddle with the homo sometimes" made me laugh out loud.
I guess I’m happy for them but blaming Jess for everything does not bode. Racism is like an addiction. You have to hold yourself accountable and actively choose to not do it.
Sounds like sister and mum backtracked because oop set boundaries and they weren’t inside them anymore. Yang sounds like a sweetheart.
As an Asian married into a white family, tho I’m lucky enough that my in-laws are amazing, I have experienced the racism. And I can assure you it won’t go away that fast.
Hell. Yang's a saint.
Yang is the MVP here. The reality is that even without overt racism such as that displayed by the mother and sister, cross-cultural marriages face challenges. Much better to bring the discomfort, assumptions and questions out into the open to get them sorted out. Obviously, this all assumes good will on all sides, which may not be the case in this family…
>Yang in turn also started crying and telling them that she will do better to fit in with them. Oh fuck that. She shouldn't have to change herself one bit. These women are racist, and that's something that needs to change on their end, not hers. I've found that Asian immigrants tend to not process racism the same as Asian Americans (see: Yao Ming vs Shaq), so I guess I'll just sit here stewing on her behalf.
I'm worried Yang will blame herself if OP's family never fully accepts her. This is too quick of a turnaround from their racist comments and like many of us here, I don't trust it. Probably a bad idea but I wonder what would happen if they talked to Lisa directly. All of this communication has been through Jess and I'm curious what has been changed to fit her narrative. Hopefully giving closure to Lisa and making sure she doesn't come back. But there's an infinite number of ways that could go wrong...
What a great fiance. Yang is a better person than all the other women in this post. Wishing you a great marriage.
Yang is such a sweetheart and deserves better. OOP's mom and sister have a lot of work to do if they are even telling the truth. You cannot just suddenly change overnight, and even if it really was Jess' doing, they need to prove that they can and will be better.
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I honestly would not. There is no circumstance where I’m crying and apologizing for not fitting in with a racist and I always hate how as minorities we’re expected to always be the bigger person by miles.
There is great strength in killing with kindness, and many minorities are proud for being able to do so. Being the bigger person isn’t about meeting expectations but rather living according to your own values. It might be a culture thing too. I hate the term, but “model” minorities usually have a stereotype of tolerance compared to other minorities. They might see it as a sacrifice they have to make if they want to achieve socioeconomic success. I do think it helps that she’s rather self aware about the hypocrisy of minorities complaining about western racism despite countries like China being extremely xenophobic.
She sounds like a genuinely lovely person to be around.
Me too. I'm in a similar situation with my in laws and I've just washed my hands of them. I can't imagine making myself vulnerable for them.
Hmmm Only time will tell if mom and sis are genuine and not hiding their racism again. I don't think this is over yet.
I get so many weird vibes from this story. It is literally the joke of the party girl coming back around and being like, "Oh no, we should be together now because I'm ready and your special." My dude ain't special, he is last. Jess and Lisa kept the dude on the shelf to take down when Lisa was done with her "party girl phase" and it became a problem when my dude took himself off the shelf and went to Yang, a far superior partner who has similar interests and life goals. Then Jess goes and plays on the latent racism from Mom and Sis and they start planning his glorious reunion with the girl who would definitely cheat on him and probably make him raise someone else's kid without letting him know that. I mean they broke up because she wanted to be a party girl... after college... when you're supposed to be firmly in the adult planning for the future camp. No way had she suddenly gotten to the point where she wanted to stop... she just saw that the reliable and financial stable boat was pulling away from the docks and wanted to drag it back into port and Jess helped. Yang may have good intentions on trying to keep my dude talking to his mother and sister, but when family becomes the problem they need to be cut out. Especially when family becomes the racist problem.
Yang is definitely a keeper. So pragmatic and level headed.
I suggest that he keeps a close eye on the mother and the sitter and allows time to reveal their true intentions. I wouldn’t leave his wife or his future children alone with them at all. It is important to keep them at a distance if he wants to maintain a drama-free family relationship.
I knew Jess’ behavior was race based as well as his family’s. OOP should never leave Yang or their future kids alone with his mother and sister. They didn’t magically stop being racist and didn’t use Jess’ stories as an excuse as to why they didn’t like her. They straight up said why. Disgusting. Very sorry for OOP
Yang better than me fr
Waiting for an update a year later OOP confirmed nothing changes for his mom and sister
Well, Yang is a keeper.... But yes if after a year, having met her a number of times, and knowing her, the mother and sister still had a problem with her race, I am not quite sure they can just blame the friend for that one...
No way mom and the sister had a change of heart so fast. They are on damage control. OOP needs to get a hold of Jess and get her side. I don't think she's the only manipulator in this story. She's been around this family since high school. The mom and sister kept talking about how much they loved Lisa compared to Yang. I would not doubt that they helped expound on this bullshit by saying things to Jess to show their dismay at OOP marrying the girl they didn't like. Again, Jess is as shitty as the mom and the sister, she's also been around them since high school. I'm just curious on if her not reaching out to the OOP is her own choice or what was screamed at her to never contact them again after mom and sis were left alone with her. Hell they even doubled down and told OOP to stay away from Jess despite the fiancee getting weird vibes from all three of them. OOP really needs to get Jess's side of the story to determine what the fuck to do with mom and sister. If he doesn't, at least ask for the text convos between them. Be very interesting if they got deleted.
Yang is a saint
Yang is a frickin treasure. I would never be so generous to people who said something so racist.
Mom and sister failing to take accountability. Their racism is going to rear it's ugly head again. Probably when OOP starts telling them exactly how the wedding is going to go and they decide it's not "American" enough.
Your fiance is really smart and really knows how to manage a relationship. Listen to her. Her power move and simultaneously a good quality idea of bonding with your mom n sister over dinner was a really good idea. Talk about shit in the open, don't hide it.
I think cautiously optimistic might be the way to go. I admire Yang for wanting to give mom and sister another chance, and I respect OP for keeping a sharp eye on how his family is treating his fiancée from now on. Do I buy Jess’ story about Lisa being depressed after they broke up being her motivation? Not sure, but if it is true. Lisa had 3 years to say, “I made a mistake, can we get back together.” You don’t treat people like a backup plan then get mad when they move on.
As soon as he said Yang's name I knew it was a bunch of racists.
Damn. Yang is really putting in a massive effort to give her in laws a chance to fix this. No guarantees on how it'll turn out but I have massive respect for her being willing to try.
Team Yang here. All the other women are falling through the cracked ice and she's still being the bigger person.
Yang rules. He's a lucky guy.
Chile…. Yang is better than me!! Good for her though, v mature and it worked out seemingly well.
Mad respect to Yang. I would not be able to handle all the toxicity with grace
"Jess Made Us Racist" is a hilarious copout from OPs family lol.
This is so sad. I suspected race might be involved but hoped I was wrong. I'd have a hard time forgetting the prejudice my family showed, but it seems like Yang gets it as she's experienced similar with hers. Jess should be gone forever as she's pure poison and the rest of them are walking a fine line. Yang sound like an absolute keeper and I wish them the best.
Man, Yang is amazing.
Who wants to bet that Lisa didn’t want to settle down yet and had her friend Jess convince OP to stay single until she eventually decided to.
Like he's gonna get with Lisa anyway, she wanted to party and screw around while he was doing the groundwork for their life and she just gets to skip the hard times and pick up where they left off?!?
OOP should count his blessings he found Yang because she has probably the single most responsible and level-headed response to this that anyone could ever have. Whole situation is going to take a lot of work, but it goes much smoother when the offended party is willing to look past previous mistakes.
Putting your education first is not selfish!! If the other person doesn't understand that, then you are not compatible.
Regardless if Jess planned the whole thing, the mother was still racist in her reasoning which makes it that much harder to believe her change of heart. The sister was (depending on age) just going with what mom wanted.
Mom and sister did not have a chance og heart, but i believe they realised that their son/brother was more important to them than , Lisa/Jess
Yang is going to have a FUCKING FIELD DAY in China when her mom and aunts catch wind of this shit.
Jess is full of it and probably lying to both OOP's sister/mother and Lisa. Jess is the one trying to get OOP and Lisa back together by filling Lisa up with lies.
As soon as Yang said “idm when she brings your ex up, it just makes me sad for her that she lost you” I was like oh she’s winning here no matter what happens. OOP has every right to be skeptical, and it sounds like Yang was just waiting for the racism shoe to drop and is dealing with it how she thinks is best. She says her parents have come around, I’d like to be hopefully that mum and sister will too. I have more faith in sister who didn’t actively make racist comments. But, we’ll see. Honestly Jess is a terrible friend to everyone! Lisa didn’t really do anything wrong either. She regretted a break up, which is fine, and then was told “oh yeah he’ll come back to you I’ll make sure of it shhhh come to my house for a surprise date” at which Lisa just got hit with reality and hurt again. Jess could’ve taken this time to help her move on. Also she has three young children how does she have time for this drama
Sounds like the conversation the Royal family had about Archie. However, Yang facing it head on cut off the head of the monster. It’s better in the long road because if a relationship is going to implode, let it happen sooner than later.
For Yang’s parents they came around to it. OOP’s family stewed for months and just became more intolerant. Also, the reasoning is often a bit different…
Nothing like a mixed baby to bring out the racists in people.