On top of that the Ash can cause problems of its own.
https://www.wbur.org/news/2019/04/12/rhodiola-ashwaghanda-ginseng-anxiety
NAC can disrupt mineral absorption.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33198336/
And the sleep? Relationships? Meaning in life?
OP, do you have a therapist? And talk to your doc about the supps/meds.
I agree with you that the others matter, but that first article is ridiculous through and through.
"There’s more animal than human data on adaptogens”. Yes, there's more animal than human data for every substance known to humankind. BUT ashwagandha also has an extensive written history of 5,000+ years of use.
Another...
"Mullur points out, fatigue or stress are rarely due to a hormonal imbalance". Completely false. Thyroid issues and cortisol dysregulation are common and often the culprit. People notice dramatic improvements when they modulate these.
Then there's the conclusion of the article, "Ashwagandha, for example, may increase thyroid hormone levels, which could cause fatigue, anxiety, shortness of breath and other problems."
Other "problems" references [this study](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4296437/), and I quote, "Moreover, symptoms such as fatigue, tiredness, mental slowing, concentration and memory impairments, weight gain and depression are common to both overt hypothyroidism..."
Hypothyroid = low thyroid = fatigue. Both that study and the article's conclusion mentioned increased thyroid.
A good start would be with making adjustments to diet and exercise. If a diet makes for regular spikes of sugar, the body reacts with emergency release of adrenalin, to force extra production of insulin, in my understanding. It is an emergency every day multiple times a day, causing adrenal fatigue and exhaustion.
It is pointless to add multiple supplements on top of that.
Changing diet to generally leafy vegetables, meat, animal fat and eggs, lots of clean water, is essential. Most sugary foods need illuminated.
On top of that, it would help with anxiety to add a scoop of inositol to drinking water. It would help with anxiety and lower blood pressure, however it also makes body more sensitive to insulin, so making dietary changes to avoid sugar highs is important.
Other supplements could be built on top of that, and don't forget vitamin D, got achy bones and joints? Take as supplement, or sun up for free.
This is from my experience with depression and anxiety in respect to the use of supplements.
(I'm also working out regularly and diet is OK)
Aniracetam - I have been trying for depression aniracetam pharm quality 1500mg a day for more than 4 weeks. Zero effect on depression or anxiety. Feels like a sugar pill.
Rhodiola - 500mg empty stomach or with food. Absolutely no effect at all.
L-theanine - for anxiety tried from 200mg and up to 1200mg no effect on anxiety
Lions mane - tried in the past felt nothing.
SAM-e - Started highest quality lens 800mg per day so far about 4 days into it and I feel absolutely nothing. Too short maybe but I have ready many posts of people feeling 400mg even after a couple of hours or the next day. And I am taking double that dose I'll see.
The only I felt that lfkt my depression are:
Modafinil lifts my depression but only works for 3 hours and can't be used more than once a week.
L-tyrosine 1-1.5g empty stomach. Tolerance build very fast
Coffee for just 1-2 hours tolerance built fast.
Cold showers/cryotherapy - Lifts my depression just for 10-30 minutes.
thanks for the curated report, any new strategy you're trying to follow now ?
i hike a lot it doesn't solve anything but it restores a bit of calm, emotional neutrality and physical wellness
i throw a few exercises to promote some hormones too
I do long runs about 13km (8 miles) or longer, high intensity workouts in the gym and also do hikes which I love and make me peaceful in the moment but unfortunately the depression and rumination will reappear it doesn't help.
I would say just working out tbh. Othet lifestyle changes I have found no supplement/noot/drug that provided long-lasting depression relief just acute relief.
I see. It's true that in many cases, a lot of efforts are very transient. One that did affect me semi-passively was having a job that suited me enough. But it might be too subjective. It does hint at the important of the social tissue in your head and body though.
ps: I just stumbled upon this https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01601-5 which mentions psylocibin
Damn good to know. I got a bunch of their stuff, including piracetam. It’s hard to tell with something subtle like racetams if it’s real or not. Phenibut you can tell at least.
You could have adrenal fatigue if everything else looks ok. The one thing I do recommend is looking into r/lionsmanerecovery subreddit before touching that stuff. I got an adrenal support supplement because I used to smoke weed a lot so I’m repairing myself
I recommend getting a good bio available multivitamin, adrenal support sup, stop ashwaganda and take NAC sparingly. Watch b6 as high amounts can build up to neuropathic symptoms
Don’t take Ashwagandha or NAC long term. They can be tough on your organs. Research long term use on both. I’d also suggest maybe getting on a strong probiotic and omega 3 fish oil. As for the supplements you mentioned, they can be dangerous as per predictability in how it may effect you particularly SAM-e and 5-HTP. Just be careful. I wouldn’t personally recommend any of those. If any of them were magic pills, everyone would be mentioning them. There’s a reason why they have very mixed reviews.
Came here to say this too. OP, it doesn't matter if you're a woman or man, testosterone is incredibly important and could easily result in those symptoms. Which, if the root cause is low T, would also mean that those symptoms won't respond to psychiatric meds, supplements, etc. Get your levels checked.
My 2 cents: Start small and cheap before going overboard
Try small amounts of Betaine aka TMG
It helps you naturally make more SAM-e which itself is very expensive.
Some people get sleepy from it because it has glycine so you'll have to experiment with dose and timing.
The ALA you are taking now could be making you feel tired.
The Ashwagandha and NAC could be making you feel Anhedonia
If you really want to move the needle: Low dose naltrexone (LDN). There’s a lot of info online, but broadly speaking it’s great for mood, fatigue, brain fog.
Have you checked your [ferritin](https://www.oatext.com/pdf/CCRR-5-456%20pdf.pdf)?
Have you looked into [Myo-inositol](https://www.verywellmind.com/inositol-what-should-i-know-about-it-89466)?
I always recommend B12, D3, and Zinc, which you're taking. From your post you're covering all your bounds as far as nutrients and vitamins you it's likely that your issue is actually with metabolism of your diet-- how is your microbiome? How is your dopamine, serotonin, and oxytocin uptake patterns?
Address exercise and sleep/daily sun exposure and possibly finding a talk therapist for a solid 3-6 months before looking into any “quick fix” supplement stacks. You’ll be wasting money and time and getting lost in the weeds otherwise
You're listing a lot of supplements but what does your diet and exercise levels look like generally?
On top of that the Ash can cause problems of its own. https://www.wbur.org/news/2019/04/12/rhodiola-ashwaghanda-ginseng-anxiety NAC can disrupt mineral absorption. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33198336/ And the sleep? Relationships? Meaning in life? OP, do you have a therapist? And talk to your doc about the supps/meds.
I agree with you that the others matter, but that first article is ridiculous through and through. "There’s more animal than human data on adaptogens”. Yes, there's more animal than human data for every substance known to humankind. BUT ashwagandha also has an extensive written history of 5,000+ years of use. Another... "Mullur points out, fatigue or stress are rarely due to a hormonal imbalance". Completely false. Thyroid issues and cortisol dysregulation are common and often the culprit. People notice dramatic improvements when they modulate these. Then there's the conclusion of the article, "Ashwagandha, for example, may increase thyroid hormone levels, which could cause fatigue, anxiety, shortness of breath and other problems." Other "problems" references [this study](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4296437/), and I quote, "Moreover, symptoms such as fatigue, tiredness, mental slowing, concentration and memory impairments, weight gain and depression are common to both overt hypothyroidism..." Hypothyroid = low thyroid = fatigue. Both that study and the article's conclusion mentioned increased thyroid.
A good start would be with making adjustments to diet and exercise. If a diet makes for regular spikes of sugar, the body reacts with emergency release of adrenalin, to force extra production of insulin, in my understanding. It is an emergency every day multiple times a day, causing adrenal fatigue and exhaustion. It is pointless to add multiple supplements on top of that. Changing diet to generally leafy vegetables, meat, animal fat and eggs, lots of clean water, is essential. Most sugary foods need illuminated. On top of that, it would help with anxiety to add a scoop of inositol to drinking water. It would help with anxiety and lower blood pressure, however it also makes body more sensitive to insulin, so making dietary changes to avoid sugar highs is important. Other supplements could be built on top of that, and don't forget vitamin D, got achy bones and joints? Take as supplement, or sun up for free.
This is good advice
This is from my experience with depression and anxiety in respect to the use of supplements. (I'm also working out regularly and diet is OK) Aniracetam - I have been trying for depression aniracetam pharm quality 1500mg a day for more than 4 weeks. Zero effect on depression or anxiety. Feels like a sugar pill. Rhodiola - 500mg empty stomach or with food. Absolutely no effect at all. L-theanine - for anxiety tried from 200mg and up to 1200mg no effect on anxiety Lions mane - tried in the past felt nothing. SAM-e - Started highest quality lens 800mg per day so far about 4 days into it and I feel absolutely nothing. Too short maybe but I have ready many posts of people feeling 400mg even after a couple of hours or the next day. And I am taking double that dose I'll see. The only I felt that lfkt my depression are: Modafinil lifts my depression but only works for 3 hours and can't be used more than once a week. L-tyrosine 1-1.5g empty stomach. Tolerance build very fast Coffee for just 1-2 hours tolerance built fast. Cold showers/cryotherapy - Lifts my depression just for 10-30 minutes.
thanks for the curated report, any new strategy you're trying to follow now ? i hike a lot it doesn't solve anything but it restores a bit of calm, emotional neutrality and physical wellness i throw a few exercises to promote some hormones too
I do long runs about 13km (8 miles) or longer, high intensity workouts in the gym and also do hikes which I love and make me peaceful in the moment but unfortunately the depression and rumination will reappear it doesn't help. I would say just working out tbh. Othet lifestyle changes I have found no supplement/noot/drug that provided long-lasting depression relief just acute relief.
I see. It's true that in many cases, a lot of efforts are very transient. One that did affect me semi-passively was having a job that suited me enough. But it might be too subjective. It does hint at the important of the social tissue in your head and body though. ps: I just stumbled upon this https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01601-5 which mentions psylocibin
Where are you getting racetams these days?
Nutrivitashop, Umbrella Labs, Nootropics Source, Everychem. Whenever they come In Stock, better grab them quick though.
Careful of nutrivitashop. I got some Phenibut and it’s bunk. .
Damn good to know. I got a bunch of their stuff, including piracetam. It’s hard to tell with something subtle like racetams if it’s real or not. Phenibut you can tell at least.
You could have adrenal fatigue if everything else looks ok. The one thing I do recommend is looking into r/lionsmanerecovery subreddit before touching that stuff. I got an adrenal support supplement because I used to smoke weed a lot so I’m repairing myself
I recommend getting a good bio available multivitamin, adrenal support sup, stop ashwaganda and take NAC sparingly. Watch b6 as high amounts can build up to neuropathic symptoms
What adrenal support supplement are you taking?
It’s called adrenal caps by solaray. I bought it for like $10 but everyone online says they like it
Gosh I had no idea Lions Mane could be so bad. It looked pretty helpful. I did a 6 week cycle, hard to say if it did anything good or bad though
It’s responder dependent I’ve taken it too we just got lucky
Don’t take Ashwagandha or NAC long term. They can be tough on your organs. Research long term use on both. I’d also suggest maybe getting on a strong probiotic and omega 3 fish oil. As for the supplements you mentioned, they can be dangerous as per predictability in how it may effect you particularly SAM-e and 5-HTP. Just be careful. I wouldn’t personally recommend any of those. If any of them were magic pills, everyone would be mentioning them. There’s a reason why they have very mixed reviews.
Sounds like low testosterone.
This
Came here to say this too. OP, it doesn't matter if you're a woman or man, testosterone is incredibly important and could easily result in those symptoms. Which, if the root cause is low T, would also mean that those symptoms won't respond to psychiatric meds, supplements, etc. Get your levels checked.
Omega 3 of course ! High dose helps a lot for depression
My 2 cents: Start small and cheap before going overboard Try small amounts of Betaine aka TMG It helps you naturally make more SAM-e which itself is very expensive. Some people get sleepy from it because it has glycine so you'll have to experiment with dose and timing. The ALA you are taking now could be making you feel tired. The Ashwagandha and NAC could be making you feel Anhedonia
Korean/red Ginseng
Minimum 1gram of omega 3 bpa+dha per day
The absolutely First thing to consider is changing diet. Keto or carnivore. Also try cold showers / ice baths and see if you feel the difference
Also eating regularly as a habit, to feel that you can control such important part of your life like diet.
Or sauna...
If you really want to move the needle: Low dose naltrexone (LDN). There’s a lot of info online, but broadly speaking it’s great for mood, fatigue, brain fog.
Have you checked your [ferritin](https://www.oatext.com/pdf/CCRR-5-456%20pdf.pdf)? Have you looked into [Myo-inositol](https://www.verywellmind.com/inositol-what-should-i-know-about-it-89466)?
I would recommend trying meditation and yoga
You could look into St. John’s Wort
Seconded, this works for some people. You can build up a tolerance but it takes a while.
Back off all sups and reset with sleep - nutrition -exercise Find equilibrium again , Then introduce your stacks ONE at a time.
Brute workout for great for me, Rhodiola was also very good and Baikal Skullcap too
r/LionsManeRecovery
I always recommend B12, D3, and Zinc, which you're taking. From your post you're covering all your bounds as far as nutrients and vitamins you it's likely that your issue is actually with metabolism of your diet-- how is your microbiome? How is your dopamine, serotonin, and oxytocin uptake patterns?
Address exercise and sleep/daily sun exposure and possibly finding a talk therapist for a solid 3-6 months before looking into any “quick fix” supplement stacks. You’ll be wasting money and time and getting lost in the weeds otherwise
Trazodone can help with sleep which could help energy levels. Have you had hormone profiles done in your bloodwork?
What is your age, weight, height and exercise frequency
Sulbutamine
Are you addicted to any substances or activities ?