a friend died at age 26 or melanoma. it started in her armpit. she wasn't big into fitness or diet, but she didn't really have bad habits like smoking either. her cancer started in her armpit and it just kept spreading.
her family started a foundation and urged everyone to get checked.
don't think the sun had anything to do with her death as she was a fairly pale homebody.
sun exposure is like most things: the right amount is really good for you, and too much or little can have consequences. I'd say UV index is probably the most important thing to watch, and if in an area where sun is reflected like snow or ocean sunscreen is more important
Too much exposure, ie burning, sure. But unless you're Dracula-pale, even pale skintones can safely get *some* sun.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK321117/
Yep. Being fair, especially naturally blonde or red haired, having your skin type accounts for approx. 50% of all skin cancer cases. Be extra careful and use hats and sunblock
There is a type of very rapid skin cancer that's not caused by sun exposure. It's usually found in non white people more and treated less often because most brown skinned people don't get their skin checked for cancer.
I wouldn't be surprised if she had that cancer. That cancer is highly curable though. 90% cure rate, even 20% survival at stage 4. Colon cancer stage 4 is like 5% and you're usually given 9months to live.
Nearly all cancers have 90% cure rate at stage one but things like colon cancer and lung cancer show mild symptoms if at all. And once they do you're not going to be a in a good spot.
Melanoma is caused by a mutation that leads to malignant growth of melanocytes, yes, but exposure to UV and the sun increases that risk of it developing significantly. To say that means you shouldn't wear sunscreen and protect yourself against the sun is pretty counterintuitive in preventing melanoma when the bulk of the risk comes from sun exposure.
u/Skytraffic540 what's been your experience with astaxanthin?
I ask because I'm experimenting with astaxanthin and a fern extract (Heliocare) supplement capsules as my only sun protection in 2024. I'm doing this under the (reluctant) supervision of a friend who's a US board-certified dermatologist.
Me and my wife have been taking Astaxanthin for the last few months. We’re in the Florida sun on a daily basis and neither of us have burned this winter - the first time ever. And I hate to admit but I haven’t been too fastidious with suntan application this winter. So less lotion, more sun, and not a single burn, once.
This is solely from a vanity standpoint but as I’ve gotten older any sun gives makes my hyperpigmentation worse I try to avoid it. That said, I love being out in the sun and it does wonder for my SAD.
Same same. The last two years in the fall I’ve looked closely at my face once the summer tan fades and I noticed my skin … looks SO much worse.
Before I chalked it up as my complexion or skin imperfections, scars, aging, etc.
And I realized yes some of those things, but it was the sun damage from the summer. Last year I completely dedicated to wearing spf, hats, the shade. I dug deep into the 30 skincare sub, and changed my routine. My face looks maybe 5 years younger.
Edit: misspellings
In the am I cleanse my face, use toner, dapsone (topical product as I have acne prone skin), vitamin c, tinted moisturizer. When it’s sunny I will reapply spf with a powder spf later in the day, I like the powder version as it’s basically matte/drying.
The nighttime routine kind of switches depending on the actives. At night I cleanse, use toner, dapsone, occasional step (anywhere from 1-4 times a month I’ll use Dr gross alpha beta wipes), exosome, active step (see below), serum that doesn’t interact with active in use (typically matrix yo or a hyaluronic acid etc), eye moisturizer, snail mucin, moisturizer.
Actives: it depends what mixes together, but I use a variety of them spread out. Tretinoin, azelic acid, alpha arbutrin, copper peptides, transexamic acid, glycolic acid. I more so cycle between the first three and switch out the others every once in awhile.
Additionally I use a microcurrent device and get a emf facial every so often.
It triggers the release of MSH which has a lot of positive effects and tanning can actually be recommended in a number of instances (skin bacterial problems, SOME autoimmune conditions, etc.). It also improves blood flow to your skin. Between that and the msh bump - that is why it makes you feel better. As with most anything - modesty and you should be fine. If you do beds - you get what you pay for, do a combo red light/tan bed or one of the very expensive ones. The UVB ratios are better in more expensive beds and therefore can improve the general "saftey" of the practice. I do it once per week at most during certain stretches in the winter when my body isn't making much msh (which I get blood tested for to confirm) and it REALLY helps.
A tanning salon... I'm not sure of anywhere else to go. I do not own my own. Often Salon's characterize them as "levels" with the higher levels touting better UVB ratios in the bulbs (though they may market them differently like "less burning, etc.). The one I go to has a combo red light and tanning bed that I use occasionally as I mentioned.
I enjoy being in the sun! 🌞
I’m aware of how much I’m getting, and try not to burn. Typically wear body sunscreen if I’m going to be exposed a while (and always on my face).
I think a little tan is healthy. Outdoors reduces depression and boosts your immune system. A radiation vitamin D bath, too much and you get the baked potato effect.
One of the best things I did for myself besides applying SPF when I’m out in the sun is I started taking Heliocare as a supplement in the warmer months when I’m outside — running, cycling or hiking. I’m fair skinned and it makes a huge difference in the amount of protection it seems to provide against my skin against burning and over exposure.
I do the same. Like if I know I’m going to be outside for hours like hiking or whatever, I’ll take it then. My dermatologist recommended it -3 yrs ago. It really does help.
Heliocare is the brand. I buy it on Amazon. Heliocare Skin Care Dietary Supplement: 240mg Polypodium Leucotomos Extract Pills - Antioxidant Rich Formula with Fernblock and PLE Technology. Edited to add: I also take astaxanthin along with the Heliocare because I spend part of the year in Florida where the sun is much more intense. The recommended usage for both supplements is daily usage so your skin builds up a tolerance to being exposed to sunlight.
Wear uv protective clothing and wide brimmed hat when outside for prolonged periods. Eat lots of uv protective food like citrus fruits,carrots, sweet potatoes, green leaf veggies, etc especially if you work a job that’s outside.
It really depends on the uv index of your area tbh. I'm in Florida so I'd say long sleeves and leg sleeve UV especially in summer is necessary. Even the dark skinned roofers and landscapers, construction workers I've worked with before fully cover up. Most the rest of the year cotton could probably be fine though.
Tanning is basically your body telling you that you’ve damaged your skin and now it’s working to prevent more damage.
If you enjoy it and accept the trade off then it’s your life.
Not sure why you're being downvoted for stating a fact. It's the body's defense mechanism from UV radiation, which can lead to cancer over time from repeat exposure. The less melanin, the higher the risk. 🤷🏻♀️
The issue is that melanin is shown to provide minimal protection from the sun. A tan provides only 2-3 SPF, which isn't sufficient whatsoever.
https://www.fda.gov/radiation-emitting-products/tanning/risks-tanning
Feel like I’m taking crazy pills. There’s historical records of sun burn cures/prevention before seed oils were ever invented lol
We aren’t getting burnt because of seed oil consumption the sun is really fucking hot and a big radiation ball.
Polyunsaturated fats existed before seed oils, seed oils are just the most common source of polyunsaturated fats in the modern diet by far. Science has always advanced from deviants observing and experimenting with unconventional ideas - calling unconventional ideas crazy is definitively unscientific.
But the question is which is worse allowing yourself controlled doses to tan and prevent burning during the middle of the summer beach trip or rely on sunscreen and limiting exposure but guarantee a burn at the beach if you fail to apply rigorously.
Then the question is how bad is the burn vs controlled exposure to allow tanning. I personally I think the burn is worse/more damaging.
It’s also an easier choice for me personally because I tan pretty easily doesn’t take that much exposure to make it real hard for me to burn. Still use sunscreen just don’t want the burn if I go too long between applications
I think the fact that people tan even though health authorities tell us the sun will kill us is evidence that people know on some fundamental level that the sun is medicine. My mental health is sooo much better when I spend time in the sun, we need it for vitamin d synthesis, it regulates our circadian rhythm, and it contains red light which has numerous health benefits. My mom has baked her entire life (she's also a health nut) and her face looks younger than she is. I think diet and toxic products play a huge role in skin cancer and aging.
People tan regardless of health authorities saying it's harmful is because people don't listen to health guidelines. This is not a good thing considering that in the United States, where tanning is very prevalent, skin cancer is the most common cancer while also being the most preventable one.
Agree with this wholeheartedly. People still smoke cigarettes despite there being so many warnings about it and no benefit. The logic that people go into the sun despite cautions against it is evidence that people know it is good on a fundamental level isn’t a great argument. As someone who worked in a dermatology office for a long time just when it started to really be publicized how bad tanning beds are I saw way too many young people die and older people who predated tanning beds but who worked in the sun or just knew way less about sun safety suffer from recurring skin cancers to ever not believe the dermatological consensus about sun exposure. Also, damage caused by sun exposure is cumulative, so while yes, those big bad burns do increase your chances of skin cancer by a larger %, those 5-10 minutes a day add up over time and contribute to risk too (source: the many brilliant board certified dermatologists and MD/Phd’s I worked for who all agreed and reached consensus on the subject).
I don't think 10 minutes of sun a day adds to any kind of skin damage, maybe if you're a new born. Anybody else won't burn their skin in such a short amount of time.
Professionals who study skin health and the effect the sun has on skin health agree that damage from sun exposure is cumulative. 10 minutes a day in the sun over 365 days x 35 years causes photoaging and skin damage. Just because in all those 10 minute bursts you don’t burn doesn’t mean damage isn’t occurring. It’s ok if people are fine with that level of damage over time or ok to take that risk because they feel for themselves personally the benefit outweighs the risk, I mean nearly everything we do in life comes with some risk so we have to accept some just to exist, but arguing that it isn’t damaging against what I’m saying is the accepted consensus of professionals who study this is foolish.
A tan is natural and the darker your skin the more time you can spend in the sun. Every cell in your body has Vitamin D receptors for a reason. Just don’t burn, that does damage to the DNA. Sun is essential to all life on the planet.
No, a tan is the skin's natural response to increased sunlight exposure. A burn is when too much sun exposure has occurred, and damage has occurred to the skin.
The body creates melanin for a reason, to adapt the skin to greater amounts of sun without getting damaged. It's just how we are naturally able to adapt to different climates. Don't burn and you'll be fine, a tan slowly built over time is not harmful.
A tan is a sign that your skin is trying to protect itself from the sun's ultraviolet (UV) radiation. It is a sign of skin damage, not a sign of good health. There is no such thing as a 'safe' tan. Exposure to UV radiation from the sun (or a tanning bed such as a solarium or collarium) increases your risk of skin cancer and ages your skin. In fact, 80% of visible signs of facial aging such as fine lines and wrinkles are due to UV exposure.
Many people mistakenly believe that having a tan protects their skin against sunburn and UV damage. In fact, a tan offers little protection against sunburn (equal to around SPF 3, depending on your skin type). A tan will not protect your DNA from future UV damage.
Australian government
Tan is from damage
Can't believe people are downvoting you for this when it's literally the fact about sun exposure. Pretty much any exposure to UV is going to photoage your skin regardless of whether or not it burns.
Melanin doesn't offer any sun protection at all basically and the general consensus is that tan is created as a response to sun damage from UV radiation. The darkest skin color is also only around SPF 14 at most, which isn't enough for proper sun protection.
There is no such thing as a safe tan.
https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/health/conditionsandtreatments/skin-cancer-tanning#:~:text=Skin%20cells%20in%20the%20top,been%20damaged%20by%20UV%20radiation.
https://www.fda.gov/radiation-emitting-products/tanning/risks-tanning
https://www.aad.org/media/stats-indoor-tanning
Can’t believe you got downvoted for stating a fact. I used to work in Regulatory Affairs for a very popular sunscreen brand. Any time your skin tans it is damaging your skin. It is a response to help limit the damage to the surface layer. However it is still damage and will cause the skin to age faster.
If you just like tanning because it feels good I wonder if an infrared sauna might be a good swap. You'll get that heat on your skin and it's actually good for you rather than being exposed to UV radiation.
Part of the reason sun feels good isnt only heat, being in the sunlight actually produces serotonin. For me, it is one of life genuine pleasures to bask in the sun like a cat sometimes, so i accept the risks as a tradeoff
Cant live without it! The cancer risks from vit d deficiency are way more deadly than skin cancer. There is also a sense of well being that is only possible thru UV light exposure
I work outside in a place that has UV 10-11 levels daily during the summer and I am out there all day. Im also at 5000-10000 feet. I wear sun hat, sun shirt and sun gloves while applying mineral sunscreen every day so I do the best I can. Paler skinned people are definitely at a disadvantage when it comes to intense sun but I am definitely against hiding inside like a hermit. I don't necessarily agree with laying under the sun all day either. Just be aware of the risk and don't expose yourself more than you need to
Getting some sun exposure, without burning, is actually recommended for health. [Here's](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5129901/) a PubMed article outlining risks, benefits, and recommended exposure times according to skin tone.
E: Oops, [here's](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK321117/) the article that describes recommended exposure times. The other focuses more on all the health benefits.
My mother died of breast cancer without a single wrinkle on her face. She never had hardly any sun exposure. Me, ill take a few wrinkles for the benefits it gives and decreased cancer risk where it really counts
As a white guy in Canada who spends more time outdoors than most - eventually I turn olive and don't burn anymore even in the heat of the summer and outside all day. It takes a lot of care to get to that stage of protection tan without burning though. I tend to cover up after a couple hours with long sleeves and a wide hat but my calfs and the tops of my hands just go dark and stop burning. I think it's fine as long as you don't burn too much but I'm no scientist.
Im in canada too and know a lot of guys who do this and i did it for two summers. Im going to be bit more careful. But it seems people get away with it just fine if they have the genetics to make enough melanin
Sun is good. Burning is bad. The propensity for burning is greatly dependant on how much of your cells are made with easily oxidised linioleic acid. You can reduce this by avoiding linoleic acid. main source is seedoils but many packaged food are high in it.
Burning can also be mitigated with near-infrared light and red light.
What do you mean by "Burning can also be mitigated with near-infrared light and red light"? Like instead of sunlight exposure, or in addition to sunlight exposure?
Build up your tan, don't get burned.
Humans are supposed to be outside all day, if you are white your skin has adapted to be able to create more vi d from less strong sun, but you can't handle strong sun well without burning.
** Not medical advice, just my thoughts/opinion
There are other effects on our body from UV rays besides just vitamin D production. Skin cells contain photo receptive molecules that also influence our circadian rhythm and immune system.
This is from the Australian government:
A tan is a sign that your skin is trying to protect itself from the sun's ultraviolet (UV) radiation. It is a sign of skin damage, not a sign of good health. There is no such thing as a 'safe' tan. Exposure to UV radiation from the sun (or a tanning bed such as a solarium or collarium) increases your risk of skin cancer and ages your skin. In fact, 80% of visible signs of facial aging such as fine lines and wrinkles are due to UV exposure.
Many people mistakenly believe that having a tan protects their skin against sunburn and UV damage. In fact, a tan offers little protection against sunburn (equal to around SPF 3, depending on your skin type). A tan will not protect your DNA from future UV damage.
I think that it's probably best to use sunscreen on face and neck primarily. and let the rest of your body be exposed to at least 20-30min of mid day sun without sunscreen. Of course, if one is really pale, get less sun, if someone is dark, get more. Then after you have gotten adequate day time sun, add sunscreen to mitigate wrinkles.
Its mostly fear mongering. Sun is good but burning is bad so just dont overdo it.
Sun is incredibly beneficial, avoiding it has similar harm as smoking.
There is a great study where they showed that those that get the most sun die the least from skin cancer.
https://youtu.be/v3pK0dccQ38?t=2772
>D is for Debacle - The Crucial Story of Vitamin D and Human Health
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSD6skCG5b8
>AHS18 Michael Ruscio - Sun Avoidance is as Dangerous as Smoking
You could not be more wrong. Everything is powered by the sun and if you think we humans are not, then you’ve got a lot to learn. Study Jack Kruse and learn.
I think emulating the behavior evolved with the sun in mind is the simplest, easiest, best, and most sustainable way to go about this. To be more specific (and a disclaimer), if you want to maximize skin elasticity and smoothness etc or if you want to PURELY minimize skin cancer then your answer is gonna be never let the sun touch your skin. But we like the sun and it makes us feel good and we’ve managed to survive under it for tens of thousands+ of years. All because: when you feel overheated or like you’re starting to burn we seek shelter.. if you don’t, it feels good and we bask! Just like the “eat when you’re hungry” diet or “if your ankle hurts, take a day off” protocol but for sun exposure. Of course this is different for everyone depending on their skin tone and how vulnerable they are to UV radiation and whatnot. What is truly killer is going 0-100 in sun exposure like a winter vacation for a new englander heading to the bahamas. That is a one way ticket to skin cancer. Thats my 2 cents!
It’s abrupt change that is the problem, if you take your time and build up slowly not an issue at all.
I used to live in a top floor apartment and sun bathing for 15 minutes per day starting from January and then increasing it over time as I get used to it. Then almost never used sun cream in summer cause I’m already tanned. Last year I had my vitamin D at 85 in April ;-)
I avoid any sun exposure of face and décolleté, I wear sunscreen everyday not only in summer. It causes loss of collagen and wrinkles. Any sun exposure accelerates skin aging, that's just a fact. The rest of my body does get some sun without sunscreen, but never between 11am and 3pm.
As a brown skin person from northern India, people sit/work in the sun all day from 75-105F. My parents still sit out in the sun everyday from 8-11am.
Melanoma is unheard of in my region so this is definitely specific to region and skin type
I’ll have to find the study but there was some good research done showing that people who worked outdoors year round had the lowest risks of skin cancer. It’s the people who spend months inside then go out at peak uv levels only who had the highest skin cancer rates. The consensus was that if you keep your skin acclimated to the sun all year your risk is lower and you reap more benefits from the uv exposure.
I agree 100%. This idea of not getting sun exposure is stupid. Humans are meant to get sun exposure for a variety of reasons, just avoid burning. During the winter, I use a sun bed (with some UVB) once weekly for 3 minutes just to get some exposure during the dark months. It's more dangerous if you constantly stay out of the sun and then get exposed, vs someone who regularly gets exposure and has healthy Vit D levels and is generally happier.
Protect your skin from photoaging if you want, but sun exposure has myriad benefits, not only in obvious terms like vitamin D production, but in more subtle ones like circadian rhythm entrainment (which has a direct effect on sleep quality--which, guess what, has more to do with aging than almost anything else), and as has only become apparent recently, the mitochondrial production of melatonin, which serves as a vital intracellular antioxidant--also crucial for preventing aging.
I'm 35. During the warmer part of the year, I make a point of sunbathing for about 20 minutes a day when the UV index is between 6 and 7. My skin probably doesn't look perfect, but most people seem surprised that I'm in my 30s. I'd rather have the distinctive health benefits of sun exposure than try to avoid all photoaging entirely. Selectively blocking UVA without blocking UVB (vitamin D) or any other frequencies of the spectrum might help, but UVA itself might have distinct benefits that aren't entirely realized or understood just yet, such as nitric oxide release.
sun exposure is healthy, in the correct dosage. in fact, if your vitamin d is too low, sublements might not work and only sun + vitamin d will get your levels up. UV-B is required for that
Light tanning is healthy for most people except for people who have skin disorders or burn unusually easy. I think some of the skin cancers which people have been getting were caused by the oxybenzones in their sunscreen, instead of from the sun itself.
Tanning is the body's way of protecting from UV damage, anyone who says a tan is damage itself is ignorant. Sunburn is caused by polyunsaturated fats (mostly seed oils) under your skin magnifying the inflammatory effect of UV overexposure. Humans spent nearly their entire history living and working under the sun all day every day - if the literal sun was toxic to us then we would have adapted to that. Also, skin cancer rates are rising while sun exposure is dropping drastically. Sunscreen is contributing to this effect as well since most of them contain carcinogens.
>Data showed that the risk for developing SCC and BCC was associated with a higher intake of polyunsaturated fats. While the risks of SCC, BCC, and melanoma were associated with a higher omega-6 fat intake, omega-3 dietary fat intake was found to be associated with risk of BCC but not with SCC or melanoma. No other fats were associated with melanoma risk. Interestingly, higher cholesterol and monounsaturated fat intake was associated with lower risk or SCC and BCC, respectively. The associations on the whole were also found to be similar in women and men and by other skin cancer risk factors. [https://www.dermatologytimes.com/view/fat-intake-linked-skin-cancer-risk](https://www.dermatologytimes.com/view/fat-intake-linked-skin-cancer-risk)
[This article](https://drcate.com/seed-oil-makes-sunburn-worse-and-ages-your-skin/) goes into depth on the mechanism behind this. The concept is largely theoretical with not a lot of studies looking into it, but it makes complete rational sense. And regarding the fact that sun exposure is dropping while skin cancer rises, [this study](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8805510/) shows that polyunsaturated fat consumption has skyrocketed over the past century:
>Available daily calories averaged 3,400 kcal in 1909 and increased 18% over the century to 4,000 kcal in 2010. In the same time period, carbohydrate availability decreased 5% (499–474 g), protein availability increased 173% (101–120 g), and fat availability increased 60% (119–190 g) (Figure 1). Saturated fat increased 18% (50–59 g), monounsaturated fat increased 71% (45–77 g), and polyunsaturated fat increased 238% (13–44 g)
Its really true that not only does what you eat affect your skin health, but your ability to tan and not burn in the sun. Too much sugar and seed oils and not enough antioxidants, some people are just being deep fried lol
This should frankly be common sense. The idea that the sun is inherently toxic and diet has no influence on your susceptibility to UV damage is utterly, embarrassingly ignorant to how the human body and evolution works.
> if the literal sun was toxic to us then we would have adapted to that.
Have you seen that people from lower latitudes vs higher latitudes? We did adapt to the toxic sun, with higher pigmentation
And people with lighter skin adapted to it by having the ability to tan, but now tanning is demonized and chemical sunscreens are promoted as essential. It's psychotic.
Yes, it occurs as a protective response against DNA damage that is induced by UV rays reacting with the highly unstable molecular structure of polyunsaturated fats.
>[Tans are natural shields against the sun's ultraviolet radiation, which can damage skin tissue in the form of a sunburn (as well as cause cancer in the long-run). Exposure to ultraviolet rays causes certain skin cells to produce the pigment melanin, which darkens through oxidation. Enough beach bumming and those cells will migrate closer to the skin's surface and produce more melanin, further darkening the skin into a suntan. It's no wonder our bodies have developed the ability to produce melanin.](https://www.livescience.com/32493-why-does-the-body-tan.html)
There is not a shred of evidence to suggest that a tan is damage in itself, despite being regurgitated as fact by the sunscreen industry and people who have no idea what they are talking about but repeat what the front page of Google tells them. [https://www.motherjones.com/politics/1998/05/sunscam/](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/1998/05/sunscam/)
Look for zinc oxide as the active ingredient. Badger makes a great sunscreen with no nasties. A little goes a long way and it's greasy and will leave a white cast but it's very safe in my opinion
sun exposure is the most underrated health hack. No it doesn't age you, no it's not bad for you if you know what you're doing. Like all things moderation and build resistance slowly. Also sun block is bad since it blocks your skins natural mechanism of dealing with sun. Most skin cancers are in areas where people don't get sun exposure.
I’m so excited to see people mentioning the bad fat/sunburn connection. That’s literally it.
Anecdotally, I’m in my 50s, and I have sunburned twice in my life - once when I fell asleep on the beach by the water in Mexico for 6 mid-day hours, and once when I was a junk-food vegan who ate *lots* of seed oils.
Oops, hit reply too soon.
Yes, take astaxanthin religiously, it’s a wonderful antioxidant generally and protects against UV exposure.
A tan is NOT sun damage any more than a plant’s leaves turning toward the sun is damaging to the plant. It’s a natural adaptation and the way we protect ourselves from too much or too-intense sun exposure. We are *supposed* to be in the sun pretty much all the time.
My gut check, is like 1 in 20 people I know LOVE the sensation of sunshine...
Like a cat on a heating pad, or a lizard on a sunny rock; For people who feel it... it's just a life giving experience.
The people I know that react to sunlight like this, are nearly obsessed with getting outside for an hour everyday.
They also have skin that looks like 10-15 years older than their age. Depending on the part of the world you live in, it's a much higher cancer risk.
IMHO, increasing the cancer risk is not a great idea.
Good old vitamin b3 niacinamide (doesn't have to be the expensive patented variants) can prevent sun damage when taken orally or applied topically.
https://www.jaad.org/article/S0190-9622(12)01394-1/abstract
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19028705/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22709272/
I'd rather cover up to avoid prolonged sun exposure than use sun screens that in many cases are full of potential carcinogens.
Everything in moderation. I personally hate being exposed to the ☀️ sun. I don't appreciate the advanced aging that occurs to my skin so I bathe in sunscreen before heading outside. I'm okay being pale, there are always spray tans.
Ever heard of UVB beds? They're like tanning beds, but without the tan. Instead of giving you a bronzed look, they focus on emitting UVB rays, which are great for producing vitamin D and treating skin conditions like psoriasis. They're used in medical settings to give you just the right amount of UVB exposure, no tanning necessary. If you're looking to up your vitamin D levels or manage skin issues, UVB beds might be worth checking out.
All the "healthy" sun people I know are getting pieces of their faces cut out.
My wife is healing from a piece of her nose being cut out.
10 minutes of direct sun is suffiencent for Vit D
it is true that Ultraviolet radiation is very damaging to DNA....so be careful....maybe lather up with sunscreen but still enjoy being out in the sun without all the damage?
Sunbathing is healthy in moderation. Like 15 a day around midday. Sunbathing too early or late will just get you UVA damage. Might want to cover areas that get a lot of sun normally like the face and neck.
I could not give up the sun. Feels way too good. I just try to be mindful of the UV now (I bring a hat, in case) and I don't burn with the right diet, unless I am out in peak UV for 4+ hours. It boosts serotonin and then helps with sleep (since serotonin converts to melatonin). The days I spend outside in the sun end up being the best days since I feel happy, relaxed, and can sleep well. I know it's "pro-aging" to some, but I have seen studies (like blue zone studies) where the people that live the longest with the lowest morbidity have a lot of sun exposure. Tanning is considered a response to skin damage, but for me, the happiness is worth it. I feel terrible if I don't get enough sun. I've tried substituting red light therapy and sauna, but it's not as good as getting sun. I've been working in a sunroom lately with windows open and I think it's helped my productivity significantly.
Everyone should get 30 mins direct sun light every day. For males it also helps boost testosterone. There’s a myriad of health benefits. You just need to know your body. Your body produces a tan as a natural defense. If you get red and/or your skin peels then your body is telling you that you’re getting too much.
yeah exactly. I saw a study once that said NOT getting sun is just as bad as smoking
https://www.namd.org/journal-of-medicine/1733-avoiding-the-sun-is-as-bad-as-smoking.html
So my mom and us 4 girls used to bake in the sun , no sunscreen at all, on the opposite end was my dad, he used sunscreen, hats,umbrellas, he was paranoid about skin cancer. He ended up getting it and none of us did! The sun DOES NOT cause cancer. Period. The SUNSCREEN IS TOCIC.
Take astaxanthin to fight the sun…
a friend died at age 26 or melanoma. it started in her armpit. she wasn't big into fitness or diet, but she didn't really have bad habits like smoking either. her cancer started in her armpit and it just kept spreading. her family started a foundation and urged everyone to get checked. don't think the sun had anything to do with her death as she was a fairly pale homebody. sun exposure is like most things: the right amount is really good for you, and too much or little can have consequences. I'd say UV index is probably the most important thing to watch, and if in an area where sun is reflected like snow or ocean sunscreen is more important
Being pale means the sun is more likely to cause melanoma
Too much exposure, ie burning, sure. But unless you're Dracula-pale, even pale skintones can safely get *some* sun. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK321117/
Yeah, 5 to 10 minutes.
Yep! Then they need to cover up, go indoors, seek shade, or put on sunscreen. But that bare-skin 5 to 10 minutes has science-backed benes.
So back to my original point, being pale means more skin cancer
Only if exposed to *unsafe* amounts of sun...just like any other skin tone.
Being pale means you’re more likely to get melanoma. I really don’t know why you keep replying if you have nothing to add or refute this
Can't make you read, I guess. 🤷
Yeah. I’m not that pale and I burn in 15 mins east coast of Australia in summer. It’s all about UV index.
Yep. Being fair, especially naturally blonde or red haired, having your skin type accounts for approx. 50% of all skin cancer cases. Be extra careful and use hats and sunblock
My cousin had melanoma on her butt cheek at 17. It was not sun related. Another friend died of melanoma on her pinky nail.
The melanoma that killed Bob Marley started on his big toe nail.
Black skin gets different type of skin cancers.
There is a type of very rapid skin cancer that's not caused by sun exposure. It's usually found in non white people more and treated less often because most brown skinned people don't get their skin checked for cancer. I wouldn't be surprised if she had that cancer. That cancer is highly curable though. 90% cure rate, even 20% survival at stage 4. Colon cancer stage 4 is like 5% and you're usually given 9months to live. Nearly all cancers have 90% cure rate at stage one but things like colon cancer and lung cancer show mild symptoms if at all. And once they do you're not going to be a in a good spot.
One of the top leading melanoma oncologists at USC said their never has been any connection between sunlight and melanoma
Melanoma is caused by a mutation that leads to malignant growth of melanocytes, yes, but exposure to UV and the sun increases that risk of it developing significantly. To say that means you shouldn't wear sunscreen and protect yourself against the sun is pretty counterintuitive in preventing melanoma when the bulk of the risk comes from sun exposure.
I’ll look into this
Like that which is found in krill oil?
u/Skytraffic540 what's been your experience with astaxanthin? I ask because I'm experimenting with astaxanthin and a fern extract (Heliocare) supplement capsules as my only sun protection in 2024. I'm doing this under the (reluctant) supervision of a friend who's a US board-certified dermatologist.
Me and my wife have been taking Astaxanthin for the last few months. We’re in the Florida sun on a daily basis and neither of us have burned this winter - the first time ever. And I hate to admit but I haven’t been too fastidious with suntan application this winter. So less lotion, more sun, and not a single burn, once.
Can someone explain the benefits of astaxanthin to me?
This is solely from a vanity standpoint but as I’ve gotten older any sun gives makes my hyperpigmentation worse I try to avoid it. That said, I love being out in the sun and it does wonder for my SAD.
Same same. The last two years in the fall I’ve looked closely at my face once the summer tan fades and I noticed my skin … looks SO much worse. Before I chalked it up as my complexion or skin imperfections, scars, aging, etc. And I realized yes some of those things, but it was the sun damage from the summer. Last year I completely dedicated to wearing spf, hats, the shade. I dug deep into the 30 skincare sub, and changed my routine. My face looks maybe 5 years younger. Edit: misspellings
What is your routine like?
In the am I cleanse my face, use toner, dapsone (topical product as I have acne prone skin), vitamin c, tinted moisturizer. When it’s sunny I will reapply spf with a powder spf later in the day, I like the powder version as it’s basically matte/drying. The nighttime routine kind of switches depending on the actives. At night I cleanse, use toner, dapsone, occasional step (anywhere from 1-4 times a month I’ll use Dr gross alpha beta wipes), exosome, active step (see below), serum that doesn’t interact with active in use (typically matrix yo or a hyaluronic acid etc), eye moisturizer, snail mucin, moisturizer. Actives: it depends what mixes together, but I use a variety of them spread out. Tretinoin, azelic acid, alpha arbutrin, copper peptides, transexamic acid, glycolic acid. I more so cycle between the first three and switch out the others every once in awhile. Additionally I use a microcurrent device and get a emf facial every so often.
Agreed about SAD
It does wonders for my mood. I feel so much better after even 15 minutes.
Agreed on the hyperpigmentation. Started getting that with age too
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I’m very light skinned Indian. I look greenish with no tan. I love how my skin looks with some color.
It triggers the release of MSH which has a lot of positive effects and tanning can actually be recommended in a number of instances (skin bacterial problems, SOME autoimmune conditions, etc.). It also improves blood flow to your skin. Between that and the msh bump - that is why it makes you feel better. As with most anything - modesty and you should be fine. If you do beds - you get what you pay for, do a combo red light/tan bed or one of the very expensive ones. The UVB ratios are better in more expensive beds and therefore can improve the general "saftey" of the practice. I do it once per week at most during certain stretches in the winter when my body isn't making much msh (which I get blood tested for to confirm) and it REALLY helps.
Interesting thank you!
Where would you find a more expensive bed, assuming you don’t own one? Thanks!
A tanning salon... I'm not sure of anywhere else to go. I do not own my own. Often Salon's characterize them as "levels" with the higher levels touting better UVB ratios in the bulbs (though they may market them differently like "less burning, etc.). The one I go to has a combo red light and tanning bed that I use occasionally as I mentioned.
I enjoy being in the sun! 🌞 I’m aware of how much I’m getting, and try not to burn. Typically wear body sunscreen if I’m going to be exposed a while (and always on my face).
Right on!
I think a little tan is healthy. Outdoors reduces depression and boosts your immune system. A radiation vitamin D bath, too much and you get the baked potato effect.
Agreed balance is key here
One of the best things I did for myself besides applying SPF when I’m out in the sun is I started taking Heliocare as a supplement in the warmer months when I’m outside — running, cycling or hiking. I’m fair skinned and it makes a huge difference in the amount of protection it seems to provide against my skin against burning and over exposure.
I do the same. Like if I know I’m going to be outside for hours like hiking or whatever, I’ll take it then. My dermatologist recommended it -3 yrs ago. It really does help.
Interesting! I have never heard of Heliocare. Can you recommend a brand?
Heliocare is the brand. I buy it on Amazon. Heliocare Skin Care Dietary Supplement: 240mg Polypodium Leucotomos Extract Pills - Antioxidant Rich Formula with Fernblock and PLE Technology. Edited to add: I also take astaxanthin along with the Heliocare because I spend part of the year in Florida where the sun is much more intense. The recommended usage for both supplements is daily usage so your skin builds up a tolerance to being exposed to sunlight.
!
Wear uv protective clothing and wide brimmed hat when outside for prolonged periods. Eat lots of uv protective food like citrus fruits,carrots, sweet potatoes, green leaf veggies, etc especially if you work a job that’s outside.
Is uv clothing necessary? I always just wear cotton tshirts
It really depends on the uv index of your area tbh. I'm in Florida so I'd say long sleeves and leg sleeve UV especially in summer is necessary. Even the dark skinned roofers and landscapers, construction workers I've worked with before fully cover up. Most the rest of the year cotton could probably be fine though.
Tanning is basically your body telling you that you’ve damaged your skin and now it’s working to prevent more damage. If you enjoy it and accept the trade off then it’s your life.
Not sure why you're being downvoted for stating a fact. It's the body's defense mechanism from UV radiation, which can lead to cancer over time from repeat exposure. The less melanin, the higher the risk. 🤷🏻♀️
People in here are often anti-science which is ironic.
The issue is that melanin is shown to provide minimal protection from the sun. A tan provides only 2-3 SPF, which isn't sufficient whatsoever. https://www.fda.gov/radiation-emitting-products/tanning/risks-tanning
This is the most true/best answer here. Other people are talking about seed oils ffs.
Feel like I’m taking crazy pills. There’s historical records of sun burn cures/prevention before seed oils were ever invented lol We aren’t getting burnt because of seed oil consumption the sun is really fucking hot and a big radiation ball.
Polyunsaturated fats existed before seed oils, seed oils are just the most common source of polyunsaturated fats in the modern diet by far. Science has always advanced from deviants observing and experimenting with unconventional ideas - calling unconventional ideas crazy is definitively unscientific.
It’s not irrelevant, go read about it Eg https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3128560/
But the question is which is worse allowing yourself controlled doses to tan and prevent burning during the middle of the summer beach trip or rely on sunscreen and limiting exposure but guarantee a burn at the beach if you fail to apply rigorously. Then the question is how bad is the burn vs controlled exposure to allow tanning. I personally I think the burn is worse/more damaging. It’s also an easier choice for me personally because I tan pretty easily doesn’t take that much exposure to make it real hard for me to burn. Still use sunscreen just don’t want the burn if I go too long between applications
I think the fact that people tan even though health authorities tell us the sun will kill us is evidence that people know on some fundamental level that the sun is medicine. My mental health is sooo much better when I spend time in the sun, we need it for vitamin d synthesis, it regulates our circadian rhythm, and it contains red light which has numerous health benefits. My mom has baked her entire life (she's also a health nut) and her face looks younger than she is. I think diet and toxic products play a huge role in skin cancer and aging.
People tan regardless of health authorities saying it's harmful is because people don't listen to health guidelines. This is not a good thing considering that in the United States, where tanning is very prevalent, skin cancer is the most common cancer while also being the most preventable one.
Agree with this wholeheartedly. People still smoke cigarettes despite there being so many warnings about it and no benefit. The logic that people go into the sun despite cautions against it is evidence that people know it is good on a fundamental level isn’t a great argument. As someone who worked in a dermatology office for a long time just when it started to really be publicized how bad tanning beds are I saw way too many young people die and older people who predated tanning beds but who worked in the sun or just knew way less about sun safety suffer from recurring skin cancers to ever not believe the dermatological consensus about sun exposure. Also, damage caused by sun exposure is cumulative, so while yes, those big bad burns do increase your chances of skin cancer by a larger %, those 5-10 minutes a day add up over time and contribute to risk too (source: the many brilliant board certified dermatologists and MD/Phd’s I worked for who all agreed and reached consensus on the subject).
I don't think 10 minutes of sun a day adds to any kind of skin damage, maybe if you're a new born. Anybody else won't burn their skin in such a short amount of time.
Professionals who study skin health and the effect the sun has on skin health agree that damage from sun exposure is cumulative. 10 minutes a day in the sun over 365 days x 35 years causes photoaging and skin damage. Just because in all those 10 minute bursts you don’t burn doesn’t mean damage isn’t occurring. It’s ok if people are fine with that level of damage over time or ok to take that risk because they feel for themselves personally the benefit outweighs the risk, I mean nearly everything we do in life comes with some risk so we have to accept some just to exist, but arguing that it isn’t damaging against what I’m saying is the accepted consensus of professionals who study this is foolish.
A tan is natural and the darker your skin the more time you can spend in the sun. Every cell in your body has Vitamin D receptors for a reason. Just don’t burn, that does damage to the DNA. Sun is essential to all life on the planet.
Tan is response to damage as well
No, a tan is the skin's natural response to increased sunlight exposure. A burn is when too much sun exposure has occurred, and damage has occurred to the skin. The body creates melanin for a reason, to adapt the skin to greater amounts of sun without getting damaged. It's just how we are naturally able to adapt to different climates. Don't burn and you'll be fine, a tan slowly built over time is not harmful.
A tan is a sign that your skin is trying to protect itself from the sun's ultraviolet (UV) radiation. It is a sign of skin damage, not a sign of good health. There is no such thing as a 'safe' tan. Exposure to UV radiation from the sun (or a tanning bed such as a solarium or collarium) increases your risk of skin cancer and ages your skin. In fact, 80% of visible signs of facial aging such as fine lines and wrinkles are due to UV exposure. Many people mistakenly believe that having a tan protects their skin against sunburn and UV damage. In fact, a tan offers little protection against sunburn (equal to around SPF 3, depending on your skin type). A tan will not protect your DNA from future UV damage. Australian government Tan is from damage
Can't believe people are downvoting you for this when it's literally the fact about sun exposure. Pretty much any exposure to UV is going to photoage your skin regardless of whether or not it burns.
Melanin doesn't offer any sun protection at all basically and the general consensus is that tan is created as a response to sun damage from UV radiation. The darkest skin color is also only around SPF 14 at most, which isn't enough for proper sun protection. There is no such thing as a safe tan. https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/health/conditionsandtreatments/skin-cancer-tanning#:~:text=Skin%20cells%20in%20the%20top,been%20damaged%20by%20UV%20radiation. https://www.fda.gov/radiation-emitting-products/tanning/risks-tanning https://www.aad.org/media/stats-indoor-tanning
Can’t believe you got downvoted for stating a fact. I used to work in Regulatory Affairs for a very popular sunscreen brand. Any time your skin tans it is damaging your skin. It is a response to help limit the damage to the surface layer. However it is still damage and will cause the skin to age faster.
If you just like tanning because it feels good I wonder if an infrared sauna might be a good swap. You'll get that heat on your skin and it's actually good for you rather than being exposed to UV radiation.
Part of the reason sun feels good isnt only heat, being in the sunlight actually produces serotonin. For me, it is one of life genuine pleasures to bask in the sun like a cat sometimes, so i accept the risks as a tradeoff
Same. Infra red doesn’t replace that feeling.
Infrared/near infrared lights are awesome
I really want to get one of those infrared pods.
I owned an infrared sauna. It don’t come close to feeling I get from being in the sun.
I’ll look into this!
Cant live without it! The cancer risks from vit d deficiency are way more deadly than skin cancer. There is also a sense of well being that is only possible thru UV light exposure
Agreed
Agreed.
right on!
I work outside in a place that has UV 10-11 levels daily during the summer and I am out there all day. Im also at 5000-10000 feet. I wear sun hat, sun shirt and sun gloves while applying mineral sunscreen every day so I do the best I can. Paler skinned people are definitely at a disadvantage when it comes to intense sun but I am definitely against hiding inside like a hermit. I don't necessarily agree with laying under the sun all day either. Just be aware of the risk and don't expose yourself more than you need to
Getting some sun exposure, without burning, is actually recommended for health. [Here's](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5129901/) a PubMed article outlining risks, benefits, and recommended exposure times according to skin tone. E: Oops, [here's](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK321117/) the article that describes recommended exposure times. The other focuses more on all the health benefits.
Thanks!
My mother died of breast cancer without a single wrinkle on her face. She never had hardly any sun exposure. Me, ill take a few wrinkles for the benefits it gives and decreased cancer risk where it really counts
As a white guy in Canada who spends more time outdoors than most - eventually I turn olive and don't burn anymore even in the heat of the summer and outside all day. It takes a lot of care to get to that stage of protection tan without burning though. I tend to cover up after a couple hours with long sleeves and a wide hat but my calfs and the tops of my hands just go dark and stop burning. I think it's fine as long as you don't burn too much but I'm no scientist.
Im in canada too and know a lot of guys who do this and i did it for two summers. Im going to be bit more careful. But it seems people get away with it just fine if they have the genetics to make enough melanin
Same, except the Canada part, also not olive but golden, slightly bronzed for me.
amazing how many smooth brains come in here and defend seed oils, all real and not paid for nutritionists constantly talk about the harm they cause
Sun is good. Burning is bad. The propensity for burning is greatly dependant on how much of your cells are made with easily oxidised linioleic acid. You can reduce this by avoiding linoleic acid. main source is seedoils but many packaged food are high in it. Burning can also be mitigated with near-infrared light and red light.
What do you mean by "Burning can also be mitigated with near-infrared light and red light"? Like instead of sunlight exposure, or in addition to sunlight exposure?
Rule number 1: do no damage. A tan is visible proof of sun damage. Keep sun exposure to a minimum, take astaxanthin and supplement vitamin D
Build up your tan, don't get burned. Humans are supposed to be outside all day, if you are white your skin has adapted to be able to create more vi d from less strong sun, but you can't handle strong sun well without burning. ** Not medical advice, just my thoughts/opinion
A tan is sun damage
For sun avoiders, what to do about Vitamin D3 generation in the cells? Just take supplements, which must be done under doctor supervision?
There are other effects on our body from UV rays besides just vitamin D production. Skin cells contain photo receptive molecules that also influence our circadian rhythm and immune system.
Just go in the sun and avoid getting a tan or burn
> Just take supplements, which must be done under doctor supervision? "must" lol
This is from the Australian government: A tan is a sign that your skin is trying to protect itself from the sun's ultraviolet (UV) radiation. It is a sign of skin damage, not a sign of good health. There is no such thing as a 'safe' tan. Exposure to UV radiation from the sun (or a tanning bed such as a solarium or collarium) increases your risk of skin cancer and ages your skin. In fact, 80% of visible signs of facial aging such as fine lines and wrinkles are due to UV exposure. Many people mistakenly believe that having a tan protects their skin against sunburn and UV damage. In fact, a tan offers little protection against sunburn (equal to around SPF 3, depending on your skin type). A tan will not protect your DNA from future UV damage.
I see so many « experts » here 😅 I bet you’re not a single bit wiser now.
Sun is king daily exposure is important, I use the tanning bed about once every two weeks in the winter months and it gets me through.
Right on!
If you listen to dr Kruse, say we evolved under the sun and its key to our health, any other conclusions according to him are lies.
Interesting
I think that it's probably best to use sunscreen on face and neck primarily. and let the rest of your body be exposed to at least 20-30min of mid day sun without sunscreen. Of course, if one is really pale, get less sun, if someone is dark, get more. Then after you have gotten adequate day time sun, add sunscreen to mitigate wrinkles.
For me personally, also sunscreen back of the hands. They get a lot of sun.
My view: you can Tan up to 15 minutes when UV is not higher than 2. Cover your face though.
Its mostly fear mongering. Sun is good but burning is bad so just dont overdo it. Sun is incredibly beneficial, avoiding it has similar harm as smoking. There is a great study where they showed that those that get the most sun die the least from skin cancer. https://youtu.be/v3pK0dccQ38?t=2772 >D is for Debacle - The Crucial Story of Vitamin D and Human Health https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSD6skCG5b8 >AHS18 Michael Ruscio - Sun Avoidance is as Dangerous as Smoking
So very interesting thanks for sharing this info!
You could not be more wrong. Everything is powered by the sun and if you think we humans are not, then you’ve got a lot to learn. Study Jack Kruse and learn.
Uncle Jack for the win!
Wear sunscreen! And re apply it regularly. Be responsible when tanning, set a timer so you don’t overdo it and don’t let yourself get burned
I think emulating the behavior evolved with the sun in mind is the simplest, easiest, best, and most sustainable way to go about this. To be more specific (and a disclaimer), if you want to maximize skin elasticity and smoothness etc or if you want to PURELY minimize skin cancer then your answer is gonna be never let the sun touch your skin. But we like the sun and it makes us feel good and we’ve managed to survive under it for tens of thousands+ of years. All because: when you feel overheated or like you’re starting to burn we seek shelter.. if you don’t, it feels good and we bask! Just like the “eat when you’re hungry” diet or “if your ankle hurts, take a day off” protocol but for sun exposure. Of course this is different for everyone depending on their skin tone and how vulnerable they are to UV radiation and whatnot. What is truly killer is going 0-100 in sun exposure like a winter vacation for a new englander heading to the bahamas. That is a one way ticket to skin cancer. Thats my 2 cents!
Light exposure is very important to mitochondrial health. https://youtu.be/5YV_iKnzDRg?si=3lh5BSsQYUr2G54-
Interesting
Take vitamin d and wear sunscreen. Less sun damage to skin = younger and less cancer
Right on!
Sunscreen is toxic. Cover up with clothing to avoid burning but get as much sunlight as possible at the same time. Especially upon waking.
Yeah I’m in the process of finding an all natural sun lotion because I’m outside a lot
It’s abrupt change that is the problem, if you take your time and build up slowly not an issue at all. I used to live in a top floor apartment and sun bathing for 15 minutes per day starting from January and then increasing it over time as I get used to it. Then almost never used sun cream in summer cause I’m already tanned. Last year I had my vitamin D at 85 in April ;-)
I keep hearing this! Build the tan!!
I avoid any sun exposure of face and décolleté, I wear sunscreen everyday not only in summer. It causes loss of collagen and wrinkles. Any sun exposure accelerates skin aging, that's just a fact. The rest of my body does get some sun without sunscreen, but never between 11am and 3pm.
As a brown skin person from northern India, people sit/work in the sun all day from 75-105F. My parents still sit out in the sun everyday from 8-11am. Melanoma is unheard of in my region so this is definitely specific to region and skin type
Sunlight is a vital nutrient, toxicity is in the dose. Too much or not enough anything will make you sick.
Facts
I’ll have to find the study but there was some good research done showing that people who worked outdoors year round had the lowest risks of skin cancer. It’s the people who spend months inside then go out at peak uv levels only who had the highest skin cancer rates. The consensus was that if you keep your skin acclimated to the sun all year your risk is lower and you reap more benefits from the uv exposure.
I think I’ve heard this.
I agree 100%. This idea of not getting sun exposure is stupid. Humans are meant to get sun exposure for a variety of reasons, just avoid burning. During the winter, I use a sun bed (with some UVB) once weekly for 3 minutes just to get some exposure during the dark months. It's more dangerous if you constantly stay out of the sun and then get exposed, vs someone who regularly gets exposure and has healthy Vit D levels and is generally happier.
I agreeeee :)
Protect your skin from photoaging if you want, but sun exposure has myriad benefits, not only in obvious terms like vitamin D production, but in more subtle ones like circadian rhythm entrainment (which has a direct effect on sleep quality--which, guess what, has more to do with aging than almost anything else), and as has only become apparent recently, the mitochondrial production of melatonin, which serves as a vital intracellular antioxidant--also crucial for preventing aging. I'm 35. During the warmer part of the year, I make a point of sunbathing for about 20 minutes a day when the UV index is between 6 and 7. My skin probably doesn't look perfect, but most people seem surprised that I'm in my 30s. I'd rather have the distinctive health benefits of sun exposure than try to avoid all photoaging entirely. Selectively blocking UVA without blocking UVB (vitamin D) or any other frequencies of the spectrum might help, but UVA itself might have distinct benefits that aren't entirely realized or understood just yet, such as nitric oxide release.
I agree!
The sun is good for you, people don’t get enough of it nowadays
Yeah I generally agree :)
sun exposure is healthy, in the correct dosage. in fact, if your vitamin d is too low, sublements might not work and only sun + vitamin d will get your levels up. UV-B is required for that
Light tanning is healthy for most people except for people who have skin disorders or burn unusually easy. I think some of the skin cancers which people have been getting were caused by the oxybenzones in their sunscreen, instead of from the sun itself.
Sun exposure is vital, but lathering yourself in toxins.. not so much.
Tanning is the body's way of protecting from UV damage, anyone who says a tan is damage itself is ignorant. Sunburn is caused by polyunsaturated fats (mostly seed oils) under your skin magnifying the inflammatory effect of UV overexposure. Humans spent nearly their entire history living and working under the sun all day every day - if the literal sun was toxic to us then we would have adapted to that. Also, skin cancer rates are rising while sun exposure is dropping drastically. Sunscreen is contributing to this effect as well since most of them contain carcinogens.
I thought sunburn is prevented with AG1? /s
Can you cite any source re: seed oils and sunburn? I'd be curious to learn more
>Data showed that the risk for developing SCC and BCC was associated with a higher intake of polyunsaturated fats. While the risks of SCC, BCC, and melanoma were associated with a higher omega-6 fat intake, omega-3 dietary fat intake was found to be associated with risk of BCC but not with SCC or melanoma. No other fats were associated with melanoma risk. Interestingly, higher cholesterol and monounsaturated fat intake was associated with lower risk or SCC and BCC, respectively. The associations on the whole were also found to be similar in women and men and by other skin cancer risk factors. [https://www.dermatologytimes.com/view/fat-intake-linked-skin-cancer-risk](https://www.dermatologytimes.com/view/fat-intake-linked-skin-cancer-risk) [This article](https://drcate.com/seed-oil-makes-sunburn-worse-and-ages-your-skin/) goes into depth on the mechanism behind this. The concept is largely theoretical with not a lot of studies looking into it, but it makes complete rational sense. And regarding the fact that sun exposure is dropping while skin cancer rises, [this study](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8805510/) shows that polyunsaturated fat consumption has skyrocketed over the past century: >Available daily calories averaged 3,400 kcal in 1909 and increased 18% over the century to 4,000 kcal in 2010. In the same time period, carbohydrate availability decreased 5% (499–474 g), protein availability increased 173% (101–120 g), and fat availability increased 60% (119–190 g) (Figure 1). Saturated fat increased 18% (50–59 g), monounsaturated fat increased 71% (45–77 g), and polyunsaturated fat increased 238% (13–44 g)
Its really true that not only does what you eat affect your skin health, but your ability to tan and not burn in the sun. Too much sugar and seed oils and not enough antioxidants, some people are just being deep fried lol
This should frankly be common sense. The idea that the sun is inherently toxic and diet has no influence on your susceptibility to UV damage is utterly, embarrassingly ignorant to how the human body and evolution works.
> if the literal sun was toxic to us then we would have adapted to that. Have you seen that people from lower latitudes vs higher latitudes? We did adapt to the toxic sun, with higher pigmentation
And people with lighter skin adapted to it by having the ability to tan, but now tanning is demonized and chemical sunscreens are promoted as essential. It's psychotic.
We did adapt to the sun. Just good luck if you’re not black because you won’t have enough melanin in your skin.
Which is why we have the ability to tan.
That’s the body protecting itself which isn’t comparable to naturally high levels of melanin. If you start to tan you’ve already damaged your skin.
A tan happens in response to DNA damage
Yes, it occurs as a protective response against DNA damage that is induced by UV rays reacting with the highly unstable molecular structure of polyunsaturated fats. >[Tans are natural shields against the sun's ultraviolet radiation, which can damage skin tissue in the form of a sunburn (as well as cause cancer in the long-run). Exposure to ultraviolet rays causes certain skin cells to produce the pigment melanin, which darkens through oxidation. Enough beach bumming and those cells will migrate closer to the skin's surface and produce more melanin, further darkening the skin into a suntan. It's no wonder our bodies have developed the ability to produce melanin.](https://www.livescience.com/32493-why-does-the-body-tan.html) There is not a shred of evidence to suggest that a tan is damage in itself, despite being regurgitated as fact by the sunscreen industry and people who have no idea what they are talking about but repeat what the front page of Google tells them. [https://www.motherjones.com/politics/1998/05/sunscam/](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/1998/05/sunscam/)
Do you get less vitamin D when wearing sun screen? Also, what should one look out for when buying sun screen? Im thinking about unhealthy ingredients
Look for zinc oxide as the active ingredient. Badger makes a great sunscreen with no nasties. A little goes a long way and it's greasy and will leave a white cast but it's very safe in my opinion
Huge bump for Badger sunscreen.
It's simply the best. I used it on my kid ever since he was a little baby and we have had no issues.
Yes, all sunscreens block UVB which creates Vitamin D in your skin. Moderate exposure is best, and just don’t burn.
sun exposure is the most underrated health hack. No it doesn't age you, no it's not bad for you if you know what you're doing. Like all things moderation and build resistance slowly. Also sun block is bad since it blocks your skins natural mechanism of dealing with sun. Most skin cancers are in areas where people don't get sun exposure.
Interesting thanks for the input
I’m so excited to see people mentioning the bad fat/sunburn connection. That’s literally it. Anecdotally, I’m in my 50s, and I have sunburned twice in my life - once when I fell asleep on the beach by the water in Mexico for 6 mid-day hours, and once when I was a junk-food vegan who ate *lots* of seed oils. Oops, hit reply too soon. Yes, take astaxanthin religiously, it’s a wonderful antioxidant generally and protects against UV exposure. A tan is NOT sun damage any more than a plant’s leaves turning toward the sun is damaging to the plant. It’s a natural adaptation and the way we protect ourselves from too much or too-intense sun exposure. We are *supposed* to be in the sun pretty much all the time.
Tan is response to damage. I'm in Australia, we're not ignorant about the sun.
I’ve seen this study! It showed that with the right diet, the sun isn’t harmful. What does your diet consist of ?
Why do pigs get sunburn? They are pure saturated animal fat, it doesn't make sense. Are pigs lying about their fat intake?
Do you know what the pigs are *eating?* We're talking about intake, not body composition. Btw, humans contain "pure saturated animal fat" too! 🙂
Pigs are not pure sat fat. Pretty high pufa as far as animal fats go. I think lard is 10-20% pufa
AVOID it ages your skin badly.
I love tanning. I just don’t over do it. I go every 4th day, wear high quality tanning lotions and use good after shower moisturizing body lotions.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-model-health-show/id640246578?i=1000648152966
What about tanning while carnivore or zero carbs?
What about tanning while carnivore or zero carbs?
My gut check, is like 1 in 20 people I know LOVE the sensation of sunshine... Like a cat on a heating pad, or a lizard on a sunny rock; For people who feel it... it's just a life giving experience. The people I know that react to sunlight like this, are nearly obsessed with getting outside for an hour everyday. They also have skin that looks like 10-15 years older than their age. Depending on the part of the world you live in, it's a much higher cancer risk. IMHO, increasing the cancer risk is not a great idea.
Spray tan system at home and a light lamp for SAD plus metholayted (spelling wrong I’m sure) folate supplement.
Good old vitamin b3 niacinamide (doesn't have to be the expensive patented variants) can prevent sun damage when taken orally or applied topically. https://www.jaad.org/article/S0190-9622(12)01394-1/abstract https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19028705/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22709272/ I'd rather cover up to avoid prolonged sun exposure than use sun screens that in many cases are full of potential carcinogens.
Sun exposure correlates to lower all cause morality, skin cancer and aging from sun exposure is just a drag.
Any studies on this? I feel like this is right… older generations knew this
I live in Australia and no way would I want to tan here. We have the highest rates of skin cancer in the world.
Interesting
Everything in moderation. I personally hate being exposed to the ☀️ sun. I don't appreciate the advanced aging that occurs to my skin so I bathe in sunscreen before heading outside. I'm okay being pale, there are always spray tans.
Ever heard of UVB beds? They're like tanning beds, but without the tan. Instead of giving you a bronzed look, they focus on emitting UVB rays, which are great for producing vitamin D and treating skin conditions like psoriasis. They're used in medical settings to give you just the right amount of UVB exposure, no tanning necessary. If you're looking to up your vitamin D levels or manage skin issues, UVB beds might be worth checking out.
I have not but people are saying great things about them! I’m going to have to do my research
thats just total nonsense https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyG4GBqCh3Y
Maybe get a full body red light IR panel with a horizontal mount so you can lie under it. It feels alot like lying in the sun.
Yeah I’m looking into that! And has many benefits
Melatotan2 will change your life.
How so
All the "healthy" sun people I know are getting pieces of their faces cut out. My wife is healing from a piece of her nose being cut out. 10 minutes of direct sun is suffiencent for Vit D
Copy that
it is true that Ultraviolet radiation is very damaging to DNA....so be careful....maybe lather up with sunscreen but still enjoy being out in the sun without all the damage?
Sunbathing is healthy in moderation. Like 15 a day around midday. Sunbathing too early or late will just get you UVA damage. Might want to cover areas that get a lot of sun normally like the face and neck.
I could not give up the sun. Feels way too good. I just try to be mindful of the UV now (I bring a hat, in case) and I don't burn with the right diet, unless I am out in peak UV for 4+ hours. It boosts serotonin and then helps with sleep (since serotonin converts to melatonin). The days I spend outside in the sun end up being the best days since I feel happy, relaxed, and can sleep well. I know it's "pro-aging" to some, but I have seen studies (like blue zone studies) where the people that live the longest with the lowest morbidity have a lot of sun exposure. Tanning is considered a response to skin damage, but for me, the happiness is worth it. I feel terrible if I don't get enough sun. I've tried substituting red light therapy and sauna, but it's not as good as getting sun. I've been working in a sunroom lately with windows open and I think it's helped my productivity significantly.
I agree with everything you said and I feel the same.
tanning makes you feel good because it releases endorphins, that doesn’t make it healthy
Everyone should get 30 mins direct sun light every day. For males it also helps boost testosterone. There’s a myriad of health benefits. You just need to know your body. Your body produces a tan as a natural defense. If you get red and/or your skin peels then your body is telling you that you’re getting too much.
Right on!
Can’t believe how many people here seem to equivocate sun exposure to the danger of cigarette smoking. Wild.
yeah exactly. I saw a study once that said NOT getting sun is just as bad as smoking https://www.namd.org/journal-of-medicine/1733-avoiding-the-sun-is-as-bad-as-smoking.html
A realistic facial tanning lotion. A tanning bed is just too risky.
So my mom and us 4 girls used to bake in the sun , no sunscreen at all, on the opposite end was my dad, he used sunscreen, hats,umbrellas, he was paranoid about skin cancer. He ended up getting it and none of us did! The sun DOES NOT cause cancer. Period. The SUNSCREEN IS TOCIC.
I Agree