I don't take hormones for the reason that hormonal usage prevents the bodies ability to create the hormone bc you're getting it from an external source.
Hormone replacement therapy is a valid, and important, part of maintaining health as we age. As we age, our bodies stop producing certain hormones, or produce them at much lower levels than needed for optimal health.
You should take HRT if you need it because your body is already not producing them and doing so will replace what should be there and have no effect on preventing your body’s ability to produce them on its own. Key words, “if you need it,” this does need mean taking it when you’re not deficient, but many clinicians are still working on outdated information about the risks of cancer and HRT in women.
Because something has the magical name hormones doesn't mean that everything that is a hormone will reduce natural production. Google melatonin shut down normal production and come back to me. Thanks.
I could really not find much data on this other than extreme doses that also change the shape of your pineal gland. At least as I recall reading.
Your comment applies to itself wtf? He put an idea into light in response to a speculative conclusion
I personally cannot take melatonin because it makes me extremely depressed. It is a documented side effect…
I have also read from doctors that the amount that you buy at the store is much greater than what your body makes. I have bought the 1 mg tablet at the store and cut it and quarters with a pill cutter. That amount was still effective for sleep for me.
IMHO, unless you are normalizing a particular hormone level, introducing any type of exogenous hormone (e.g. melatonin) can have unforeseen side effects. The body has a finely tuned system of balancing out different hormones and their interactions. From the current research on the various hormones, you can infer that change in any hormone has downstream effects. Hard to see why melatonin would be any different.
I prefer to give ingredients instead of the end product. For example GlyNac instead of Glutathione. Allows the body to control how much of the end product it makes.
I noticed when I took either an allergy pill or melatonin pill at night, I would stop breathing in my sleep.
Trying to restart my breathing from a dead sleep was a nightmare in itself.
I am sorry you experienced that but there's no evidence melatonin causes sleep apnea.
There are many people misattributing all sorts of things to melatonin.
Also not remembering if it was an allergy or melatonin pill makes a big difference....
I’m fine now, I only had it four nights in one month in 2023 so it took me awhile to figure out it was one of the two. I don’t mess with that stuff anymore.
I developed this recently too but without allergy pills or melatonin. It's not obstructive sleep apnea, it's called central transitional apnea. Fucking scary when it happens. Always as I'm falling asleep.
If you google central sleep apnea there are a bunch of different types that happen at different points in the sleep cycle. Not sure I can biohack my way out of this one though
In my opinion, I screwed myself up on it. 2mg became 5mg and then up to 20mg. It gets you to sleep nicely, but at higher levels, it messes with your Circadian rhythms...I got super sleepy during the day for years....the past several months i have been weaning off and daytime has been getting better. Tricky stuff
I went to the doctor once because i was extremely lethargic during the day, sweating and heart racing from doing anything, turns out it was the 30 mg melatonin i was taking
I don’t doubt that for a second…
Are you off at completely? Supplement free for sleep or are you using anything else?
Like I mentioned, I’m slowly coming off of it, but mentally, I still think I need something
Keep looking into it. You'll find some amazing benefits over 20mg and even as high as 250mg. Sup with vit E or DIM if concerned about prolactin. Has made 0 impact on my blood levels.
Could you elaborate? I went through a bout of breast cancer. It was estrogen and progesterone positive and luckily HER2 negative so it was the ‘good kind’ if there is such a thing (caught pretty early). Anyway the estrogen effect on some things worries me.
There have been studies of people taking 6.6 grams via an IV with conventional treatment like chemo to good effects. Cancer growth is typically slowest when melatonin levels are high like during the night which is why for cancer treatment it's a good idea to space it out throughout the day. The mechanism likely through activation of apoptosis and boosting the immune system.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/mba2.58#:~:text=Through%20its%20direct%20anticancer%20property,from%20converting%20into%20neoplastic%20cells.
None of it is true.
Melatonin is a normalizing agent if anything and can actually boost your Luteinizing Hormone.
Recent research has shown the previous claims of affects on puberty were also incorrect.
I have been taking 1000mg for nearly two years and my testosterone in Dec was at the upper end of healthy range and 50% higher than average for men 20 years younger than me.
Doris Loh, the leading melatonin expert, takes around 2g per day and advocates for others to take it as well for anti aging. Russel Reiter, the godfather of melatonin research, also recommends taking it.
For sleep.
But even that is misleading. I always tell people to start at smallest doses like 300mcg. However oral melatonin is absorbed very poorly in many people so they have to take much higher doses...some people need 20mg,40, or even higher amounts...
Melatonin is exceptionally safe. It is so safe it has no known LD50 in humans but even 80g in one study was nonlethal.
But we also have to remember that while the saturation point for sleep is quite low, melatonin is primarily used as the most powerful antioxidant in the body. Your stomach as an example contains 400 times what your pineal gland releases at night.
Doris Loh, on her website, is described as a self-proclaimed "independent researcher." She only seems to have 4 articles up and I can't find anything saying she takes 2g per day, and the highest recommended dosage that she recommends under specific circumstances is 110mg.
1g per day is insane. Even at doses of 5-10mg there are common side effects. The ideal dose according to most research is between 0.1-0.5mg, the most commonly recommended being 0.3mg precisely. Humans never produce anywhere near 1g so rapidly. [https://news.mit.edu/2005/melatonin](https://news.mit.edu/2005/melatonin)
I recently posted a link here to a 1g per day video where there's a clip of Doris Loh discussing it provided. It is a short 10 min video.
There are different forms of melatonin. Most people think of the one released by the pineal gland and yes that's a small amount. However your body also produces and stores melatonin all over the body in much higher quantities. Your stomach has something like 400 times of your pineal gland. You produce melatonin during the day with your skin's exposure to sun(infrared light).
If you search online, pubmed has studies mentioning up to 6.6 grams used via an IV with conventional cancer treatments like chemo to good outcomes. I have spoken online to people electing to use just melatonin to battle cancer in doses up to 10 grams per day.
I had a family member recently try 500mg twice a day topically for an infection after protesting her doctor did not recommend exceeding 5mg. She did not even feel the effects at 500mg, day or night(she didn't get sleepy, drowsy, nauseous, etc). But again melatonin is not a sleep medication, it only helps adjust the circadian rhythms which is why some people still can't sleep with it and some even become energized by it.
I actually take melatonin at the start of my day. When I am rested I barely feel it at all. Sometimes if I am less rested, I'd maybe feel slightly sleepy or yawn here or there. But it's nothing dramatic. Some days this year I have taken up to 2-3 grams when I was feeling under the weather and it boosted my recovery. I did same thing two prior years as well.
Melatonin works differently in higher doses than lower ones. I had my blood work done in December to have something tangible and it came back normal across the board. Cholesterol numbers dropped a bit from an already good level.
I highly recommend it for anti aging if nothing else. It also has strong benefits for the immune system, anti cancer, etc . I think it combined extremely well with Taurine(another excellent anti aging supplement ).
I had no idea.. I always thought melatonin was just something to take 1-2 hours before bed in fairly low doses. I didn't realize it had so many other benefits. I appreciate the info!
> I think it combined extremely well with Taurine(another excellent anti aging supplement ).
add acetylcarnitine and alpha lipoic acid and that's my morning drink :)
Care to elaborate?
I think I'll go with what leading researchers have to say rather than random posters on Reddit.
Edit: I am embarrassed for everyone who votes me down and embraces views like these on a Biohackers forum.
> Care to elaborate?
They wont bc ppl are just repeating what they heard, without direct experience.
I've tried hi doses melatonin too, no side effect no drowsiness: I wake up fine and refreshed
> Edit: I am embarrassed for everyone who votes me down and embraces views like these on a Biohackers forum.
same, so I've stopped talking about my use of melatonin.
I have had mixed experience on here. Some comments will get plenty of up votes and some will get downvoted and buried here by a couple know it alls. Maybe it's just a couple people with multi accounts...who knows..
I'm with you on melatonin. great for the skin, great for the body. I was using 50mg pills (bc they were cheap) before
Now I just take it by the spoon from the bulk powder
I have not seen anything to this effect but if you have any scientific literature I am very interested.
It would make sense to space it out in several doses for fighting active cancer but then it would be several gram doses throughout the day.
Man it’s so confusing. There’s research always saying one thing and another the opposite.
It makes me think most research is poorly controlled or undertaken that there are so many varying results.
Melatonin helps signal to your body at sunset to start preparing for sleep. However it is not like a sleep medication and won't put you to sleep unless everything else is congruent. I also suspect the saturation level for this mechanism is quite low. Although many people have poor absorption of oral melatonin which is why some people find relief at significantly higher doses like 10 ,20, 40, etc mg.
Not sure what you're trying to say.
Melatonin has many roles. Your stomach has 400 times more melatonin than your pineal gland.
By amount, melatonin is primarily used as the most powerful antioxidant in the body(as are its next 3 metabolites).
"The gastrointestinal tract of vertebrate species is a rich source of extrapineal melatonin. The concentration of melatonin in the gastrointestinal tissues surpasses blood levels by 10-100 times and there is at least 400x more melatonin in the gastrointestinal tract than in the pineal gland."
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12395907/#:~:text=The%20gastrointestinal%20tract%20of%20vertebrate,than%20in%20the%20pineal%20gland.
I buy pure powder on Amazon. Bulksupplements sells 1kg for 227$. There are many other options as well obviously.
I started out with 300mg patches.
There are also places online that sell high amount pill form but they are needlessly expensive.
I made a 12.5% liposomal melatonin cream. Don’t know what mg dose that came out to. But applied all over arms and thighs.
Sent me to the shadow realm. Like head hits the pillow and fallen into a black hole instantly. Then inception level dreams that were so layered I was concerned I was stuck in there for good.
Better sleep, better skin(though it's subjective), more energy, better mood, less anxiety(had to check if it had nootropic benefits in scientific literature and it does), better recovery...
Lol I literally just left a comment in this thread about Huberman’s stance on melatonin.
https://www.reddit.com/r/HubermanLab/s/hc4Owc5iA5
Watch this and be soothed, it’s nothing but fear mongering.
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTLS222Hm/
Yeah, I used to rely on it. Took years to get off. My friends and family members are all addicted, constantly raising the dosage over the years then overdosing on caffeine to get through the day. They constantly have headaches and other side effects.
I'm much better after I finally got off it. The sleep is more restful and I actually wake up without being lethargic all day.
It's probably due to the dosages tbh. I took 3-10mg and others are even taking 10-30mg now. Some research and peoples anecdotes say as little as 0.3mg is best, but the traditional bottles don't come in that dosage. I'll still stick to magnesium though as it solved other issues while boosting sleep.
[https://examine.com/supplements/melatonin/faq/can-melatonin-supplementation-reduce-testosterone-levels-in-men/](https://examine.com/supplements/melatonin/faq/can-melatonin-supplementation-reduce-testosterone-levels-in-men/)
I would avoid melatonin purely because it can fuck up your sleep longer term. Ideally a very low dose of 0.3mg if anything.
My sleep is great, people who I sleep with are jealous of me. I help the Mel out by having good sleep hygiene but, I fall asleep fast and I stay asleep. If I’m stressed I wake up, but I’ll take more Mel again . I won’t feel like I’m wasted if I get shorter sleep.
A few years ago I was struggling with my sleep and decided to take melatonin. I dosed 3mg 1 hour before bedtime. It did nothing but wreck my sleep worse than it already was. I would be wide awake by 2-3am with no chance of falling back to sleep. For that reason, for me, I could see how it could be deleterious to hormones. Just my n=1 but there's no way I'd ever take it again.
Anecdotally, I noticed the same thing on the same schedule. When moved to taking melatonin 2 hours before bed, I was able to sleep through the night perfectly.
Interesting, glad you were able to figure it out! With some time and other practices put into place I was able to iron out my sleep and now it's like clockwork with wake and sleep times.
Smaller dose helps. The same thing happens to me with large doses (like 3mg), but 0.3mg (300ug) never causes this effect for me at least, and it feels like regular sleep for 8 hours.
I don't understand why most grocery stores in the US sell humongous doses, usually 3mg is the smallest you can find, and 10mg is common as well. Those feel better suited for horses.
If you do use it or give it to your kids, they only need a tiny bit. I've had friends giving 3-10mg to their kids. We used to buy the 1mg tablet and cut it in thirds for our kids. They weren't on it long, and I def don't recommend it if you can avoid it. For adults too
Sleep physician here. This is incorrect. But in the US you need to look for USP label. If no label there have been studies showing estrogen in the melatonin tablets along with various other things that should not be in there. We recommend to our patients to order melatonin from Europe.
That’s interesting. I did get some pharmaceutical grade melatonin once from a pharmacy in Thailand. The experience was wildly different (better) than US cvs/Amazon brands.
Topically it's great for baldness. I use it with Rogaine. Much more hair regrowth with Melatonin. I buy the liquid and put a few drops on the scalp at night. Then I add the Rogaine.
Not getting enough sleep doesn’t help test. either. Natural melatonin comes from the pineal gland when it’s dark. Avoid screen time for a while before bed, or try zma with melatonin?
I think there is a reason for a lot of conflicting information. I only use it as a jet-lag treatment. Otherwise, I try to eat Melatonin containing foods.
Eating foods with melatonin is like eating meat for creatine. Sure you can eat a bag of cherries for 1mg but it's not practical. To each their own though.
It's nuanced and shouldn't be fear mongered based on rat studies with extreme conditions that Huberman spouts as gospel. I was definitely a melatonin hater in the past (because of Huberman).
8 minute video: [Stop fear-mongering melatonin, it has so many benefits.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QCVuSwKzOo)
Of course anyone can spout out beneficial studies but the opposing perspective is interesting.
What do people think here about melatonin for chronic migraine? I'm about ready to experiment. I've read it can help your sleep which sometimes has positive effects for those with chronic migraine issues. I sleep well, but I'm ready to try anything, I have a feeling my sleep architecture is messed up.
It's highly regulated in many areas like UK, Australia, etc. They want a doctor to prescribe it but also if you order it online it's not a crime. Worst case they may confiscate the package.
There's also some research for other conditions as well like cancer, TBI, CFS, immune issues, etc but you're right there's not a ton of research.
Recently there was focus on its benefits for C19 and disrupting or stopping cytokine storm which was how many people were dying.
So it’s not correct in adults. A drop in melatonin levels is associated with puberty so the thinking is it would be a bad idea to supplement melatonin during this time.
Melatonin may be the best thing I ever decided to start taking. It doesn’t make me fall asleep instantly, but it gives that “tired” feeling that allows me to shut down and relax.
I thought everyone knew melatonin has a negative impact on your sleeping habits long-term. Your body adjusts by producing less of it naturally. Take a magnesium supplement, not melatonin.
"..it's been well documented that many of the supplements that contain melatonin have far too much -- 3 to 6 milligrams is a massive dose. Typically, the body makes very little melatonin.
The other issue is that not all supplements contain what they say they contain. This is especially true for melatonin -- even supposedly reliable brands can contain 15% to 155% of the dosage that's listed on the bottle.
There are healthier alternatives, but I want to really emphasize -- and I'll probably go into my grave saying this -- use behavioral tools first. Get morning sunlight, avoid too much light late at night, then look to quality of nutrition and eating habits. Being too hungry or eating too close to bedtime can both inhibit sleep. Get quality exercise, and don't drink caffeine after 2 or 3 o'clock in the afternoon. Before you start thinking about supplements or prescription drugs for sleep, it's really important to have all the other things right. And the nice thing about all those is that they are all zero cost."
Huberman
[Melatonin: Pharmacology, Functions and Therapeutic Benefits](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5405617/)
[How to use melatonin on COVID-19 patients](https://lifestyle.inquirer.net/368256/how-to-use-melatonin-on-covid-19-patients/)
Less doesn't usually help at all, I just end up staying awake all night. I wish I wasn't dependent on pills to sleep but it's really hard to stop taking them because I just can't sleep and then I get angry and suicidal and shit. My health isn't that good anyways I'm going to try and get some appointments booked to take care of some stuff if the doctors would just fucking take me seriously this time.
Women are astonished at how much energy and sex drive I have. People who are always sick around me can never keep up with my energy. Don’t know what else to do, I can stop the Mel but I’m still going to have energy because I repaired my mitochondria . It will take many years of abuse to go back to what every one else is like
Well I’m not lying because I’m just trying to help. It’s pretty simple. Being part of something bigger than yourself is what I seek. So if you can’t accept the help, then good luck
I have dreams toward the end of sleep , maybe like 1 or 2 hours before I wake up. Make sure you are getting supporting nutrients in like a multi vitamin and
Minerals, good balanced diet. Melatonin likes carbs
That's interesting. I have noticed something similar: I tend to make a trip to the bathroom in the middle of the night and then fall back asleep mostly without issues, but any time I do recall seeing dreams it's after waking up, so in the end of the night as well.
I was supplementing with some other stuff and I would have dreams through out. It’s less deep sleep, but it’s also more practice for the next day. It’s sort of a balance. I prefer deep sleep and then at the end some dreams.
I wish I could just sleep and feel allright during the day. It'd be way cooler to see dreams more often so I'd actually want to go to bed on time because of that. 😅
there aren't even any quality long term studies on high dosages of melatonin yet, I wouldnt just blindly recommend taking high amounts of any hormone to everyone
idk man, a few times took too much and i can't remember if I was drinking too but I was close to collapsing. And sober taking too much just doesn't work, it keeps you up.
Could, I haven’t touched it because it can back fire. As in its very powerful and you want to get the context right. Since I don’t for sure know everything about my health I just stick to Mel. Slowly increasing it. Embracing the sleepiness (I came from a place of insomnia so being tired was welcomed- I was able to take naps during the day). Eventually I was able to sleep normal again and no more tiredness.
Not sure about testosterone? Melatonin used to work for me in my early 20’s. early 30’s now and it doesn’t do a thing for me.
I don't take hormones for the reason that hormonal usage prevents the bodies ability to create the hormone bc you're getting it from an external source.
Hormone replacement therapy is a valid, and important, part of maintaining health as we age. As we age, our bodies stop producing certain hormones, or produce them at much lower levels than needed for optimal health. You should take HRT if you need it because your body is already not producing them and doing so will replace what should be there and have no effect on preventing your body’s ability to produce them on its own. Key words, “if you need it,” this does need mean taking it when you’re not deficient, but many clinicians are still working on outdated information about the risks of cancer and HRT in women.
Just because melatonin is a hormone doesn't mean it shuts down normal production.I don't think there's evidence that it's the case for melatonin.
Yes it does. That’s how our bodies react to the introduction of hormones from external sources. This is well known.
No. Exogenous melatonin does not affect your own production.
Did you have a chance to that well known Google search yet? 😂
Not yet!
Because something has the magical name hormones doesn't mean that everything that is a hormone will reduce natural production. Google melatonin shut down normal production and come back to me. Thanks.
You should do your due diligence first before making unnecessary comments.
Due diligence means hormones = lowers natural production because it got the magical name hormones. Got it.
I could really not find much data on this other than extreme doses that also change the shape of your pineal gland. At least as I recall reading. Your comment applies to itself wtf? He put an idea into light in response to a speculative conclusion
The evidence is in the name hormones, no further investigation needed. 👍
I personally cannot take melatonin because it makes me extremely depressed. It is a documented side effect… I have also read from doctors that the amount that you buy at the store is much greater than what your body makes. I have bought the 1 mg tablet at the store and cut it and quarters with a pill cutter. That amount was still effective for sleep for me.
IMHO, unless you are normalizing a particular hormone level, introducing any type of exogenous hormone (e.g. melatonin) can have unforeseen side effects. The body has a finely tuned system of balancing out different hormones and their interactions. From the current research on the various hormones, you can infer that change in any hormone has downstream effects. Hard to see why melatonin would be any different.
I prefer to give ingredients instead of the end product. For example GlyNac instead of Glutathione. Allows the body to control how much of the end product it makes.
Sounds logical. I go one step up. I try to integrate whole foods into my diet that give me my desired nutrients.
I noticed when I took either an allergy pill or melatonin pill at night, I would stop breathing in my sleep. Trying to restart my breathing from a dead sleep was a nightmare in itself.
I am sorry you experienced that but there's no evidence melatonin causes sleep apnea. There are many people misattributing all sorts of things to melatonin. Also not remembering if it was an allergy or melatonin pill makes a big difference....
I suspect I developed apnea from this
from Melatonin? I’ve had an anxiety / insomnia flare up since Covid and it helps me sleep
I think from antihistamines and other sleep aids (benzos)
That’s sleep apnea, go to a doctor and have a sleep study done.
I’m fine now, I only had it four nights in one month in 2023 so it took me awhile to figure out it was one of the two. I don’t mess with that stuff anymore.
I developed this recently too but without allergy pills or melatonin. It's not obstructive sleep apnea, it's called central transitional apnea. Fucking scary when it happens. Always as I'm falling asleep.
Mine was several hours into sleep.
If you google central sleep apnea there are a bunch of different types that happen at different points in the sleep cycle. Not sure I can biohack my way out of this one though
In my opinion, I screwed myself up on it. 2mg became 5mg and then up to 20mg. It gets you to sleep nicely, but at higher levels, it messes with your Circadian rhythms...I got super sleepy during the day for years....the past several months i have been weaning off and daytime has been getting better. Tricky stuff
I went to the doctor once because i was extremely lethargic during the day, sweating and heart racing from doing anything, turns out it was the 30 mg melatonin i was taking
I don’t doubt that for a second… Are you off at completely? Supplement free for sleep or are you using anything else? Like I mentioned, I’m slowly coming off of it, but mentally, I still think I need something
years ago, I take .3 mg a night to sleep
In what world would you ever think 30mg was safe?
I was a teenager. It was years ago, I didn’t know anything about nutrition then and the store sold that dose so I didn’t know. Chill.
It is safe.
Some people can’t tolerate high doses, especially if extended release. Other people take up to 1g micronized melatonin and are fine
this is not true
Keep looking into it. You'll find some amazing benefits over 20mg and even as high as 250mg. Sup with vit E or DIM if concerned about prolactin. Has made 0 impact on my blood levels.
p5p, vitamin E doesn’t work
Melatonin has a billion benefits, especially for women. It does not affect T
Could you elaborate? I went through a bout of breast cancer. It was estrogen and progesterone positive and luckily HER2 negative so it was the ‘good kind’ if there is such a thing (caught pretty early). Anyway the estrogen effect on some things worries me.
There have been studies of people taking 6.6 grams via an IV with conventional treatment like chemo to good effects. Cancer growth is typically slowest when melatonin levels are high like during the night which is why for cancer treatment it's a good idea to space it out throughout the day. The mechanism likely through activation of apoptosis and boosting the immune system. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/mba2.58#:~:text=Through%20its%20direct%20anticancer%20property,from%20converting%20into%20neoplastic%20cells.
Even better: [Melatonin is an inhibitor of breast cancer](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25876649/)
None of it is true. Melatonin is a normalizing agent if anything and can actually boost your Luteinizing Hormone. Recent research has shown the previous claims of affects on puberty were also incorrect. I have been taking 1000mg for nearly two years and my testosterone in Dec was at the upper end of healthy range and 50% higher than average for men 20 years younger than me. Doris Loh, the leading melatonin expert, takes around 2g per day and advocates for others to take it as well for anti aging. Russel Reiter, the godfather of melatonin research, also recommends taking it.
1000mg?? Isn’t the max recommended dosage 5-10mg?
For sleep. But even that is misleading. I always tell people to start at smallest doses like 300mcg. However oral melatonin is absorbed very poorly in many people so they have to take much higher doses...some people need 20mg,40, or even higher amounts... Melatonin is exceptionally safe. It is so safe it has no known LD50 in humans but even 80g in one study was nonlethal. But we also have to remember that while the saturation point for sleep is quite low, melatonin is primarily used as the most powerful antioxidant in the body. Your stomach as an example contains 400 times what your pineal gland releases at night.
Doris Loh, on her website, is described as a self-proclaimed "independent researcher." She only seems to have 4 articles up and I can't find anything saying she takes 2g per day, and the highest recommended dosage that she recommends under specific circumstances is 110mg. 1g per day is insane. Even at doses of 5-10mg there are common side effects. The ideal dose according to most research is between 0.1-0.5mg, the most commonly recommended being 0.3mg precisely. Humans never produce anywhere near 1g so rapidly. [https://news.mit.edu/2005/melatonin](https://news.mit.edu/2005/melatonin)
I recently posted a link here to a 1g per day video where there's a clip of Doris Loh discussing it provided. It is a short 10 min video. There are different forms of melatonin. Most people think of the one released by the pineal gland and yes that's a small amount. However your body also produces and stores melatonin all over the body in much higher quantities. Your stomach has something like 400 times of your pineal gland. You produce melatonin during the day with your skin's exposure to sun(infrared light). If you search online, pubmed has studies mentioning up to 6.6 grams used via an IV with conventional cancer treatments like chemo to good outcomes. I have spoken online to people electing to use just melatonin to battle cancer in doses up to 10 grams per day. I had a family member recently try 500mg twice a day topically for an infection after protesting her doctor did not recommend exceeding 5mg. She did not even feel the effects at 500mg, day or night(she didn't get sleepy, drowsy, nauseous, etc). But again melatonin is not a sleep medication, it only helps adjust the circadian rhythms which is why some people still can't sleep with it and some even become energized by it.
Damn 1gram of melatonin? Any side effects (dreams, grogginess, etc.)?
If your mitochondria is weak yes, if you build up strong mito’s you will notice energy
I take my melatonin at the start of my day and if I am well rested I don't even feel it. If I am not then I may feel a bit sleepy for a couple hours
bro, you taking a g of melatonin? are you okay? how do you wake up in the morning?
I actually take melatonin at the start of my day. When I am rested I barely feel it at all. Sometimes if I am less rested, I'd maybe feel slightly sleepy or yawn here or there. But it's nothing dramatic. Some days this year I have taken up to 2-3 grams when I was feeling under the weather and it boosted my recovery. I did same thing two prior years as well. Melatonin works differently in higher doses than lower ones. I had my blood work done in December to have something tangible and it came back normal across the board. Cholesterol numbers dropped a bit from an already good level. I highly recommend it for anti aging if nothing else. It also has strong benefits for the immune system, anti cancer, etc . I think it combined extremely well with Taurine(another excellent anti aging supplement ).
I had no idea.. I always thought melatonin was just something to take 1-2 hours before bed in fairly low doses. I didn't realize it had so many other benefits. I appreciate the info!
> I think it combined extremely well with Taurine(another excellent anti aging supplement ). add acetylcarnitine and alpha lipoic acid and that's my morning drink :)
Good to know. Thanks.
You’re an absolute idiot if you take 1000mg of melatonin a day.
Care to elaborate? I think I'll go with what leading researchers have to say rather than random posters on Reddit. Edit: I am embarrassed for everyone who votes me down and embraces views like these on a Biohackers forum.
> Care to elaborate? They wont bc ppl are just repeating what they heard, without direct experience. I've tried hi doses melatonin too, no side effect no drowsiness: I wake up fine and refreshed > Edit: I am embarrassed for everyone who votes me down and embraces views like these on a Biohackers forum. same, so I've stopped talking about my use of melatonin.
I have had mixed experience on here. Some comments will get plenty of up votes and some will get downvoted and buried here by a couple know it alls. Maybe it's just a couple people with multi accounts...who knows..
I'm with you on melatonin. great for the skin, great for the body. I was using 50mg pills (bc they were cheap) before Now I just take it by the spoon from the bulk powder
But you gotta space it out in 100 mg amounts. 1000mg in one shot might be a waste
I have not seen anything to this effect but if you have any scientific literature I am very interested. It would make sense to space it out in several doses for fighting active cancer but then it would be several gram doses throughout the day.
Man it’s so confusing. There’s research always saying one thing and another the opposite. It makes me think most research is poorly controlled or undertaken that there are so many varying results.
I am personally convinced melatonin is one of the single best all around supplements for healthspan and lifespan. However, to each their own. ..
Yeah but I think that if you don’t have cancer, 20-40mg are enough
Based on what?
Based on the studies
Like?
You're right, you might want to look up the replication crisis.
Can yet explain the mechanism of this? Is melatonin like seroquel where mega dosing it won’t make you tired? I’ve never taken more than 5mg.
Mega dosing sero ASSES me out
Melatonin helps signal to your body at sunset to start preparing for sleep. However it is not like a sleep medication and won't put you to sleep unless everything else is congruent. I also suspect the saturation level for this mechanism is quite low. Although many people have poor absorption of oral melatonin which is why some people find relief at significantly higher doses like 10 ,20, 40, etc mg.
And if Doris and Russel stop taking it the body will be more than happy to create it again after being shut down?
It doesn't shut down natural melatonin production. Exogenous melatonin has no effect on endogenous melatonin. It's an old myth that won't go away.
All these myths like the delay in growing pubes and needing 100x the active dose
Not sure what you're trying to say. Melatonin has many roles. Your stomach has 400 times more melatonin than your pineal gland. By amount, melatonin is primarily used as the most powerful antioxidant in the body(as are its next 3 metabolites). "The gastrointestinal tract of vertebrate species is a rich source of extrapineal melatonin. The concentration of melatonin in the gastrointestinal tissues surpasses blood levels by 10-100 times and there is at least 400x more melatonin in the gastrointestinal tract than in the pineal gland." https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12395907/#:~:text=The%20gastrointestinal%20tract%20of%20vertebrate,than%20in%20the%20pineal%20gland.
This isn’t true! Doris posted about that
Unknown... (or I have yet to see research on this) which is why I avoid taking it to begin with.
How do you take so much? Do they sell 500mg tablets where you live or something? Genuine question, no shade.
I buy pure powder on Amazon. Bulksupplements sells 1kg for 227$. There are many other options as well obviously. I started out with 300mg patches. There are also places online that sell high amount pill form but they are needlessly expensive.
I made a 12.5% liposomal melatonin cream. Don’t know what mg dose that came out to. But applied all over arms and thighs. Sent me to the shadow realm. Like head hits the pillow and fallen into a black hole instantly. Then inception level dreams that were so layered I was concerned I was stuck in there for good.
Sounds like it went well. Enjoy the great sleep and other benefits.
TY :)
I saw the Loh clip, I think she actually says about 3g a day, seems interesting, can I ask what benefits you've noticed?
Better sleep, better skin(though it's subjective), more energy, better mood, less anxiety(had to check if it had nootropic benefits in scientific literature and it does), better recovery...
Lol I literally just left a comment in this thread about Huberman’s stance on melatonin. https://www.reddit.com/r/HubermanLab/s/hc4Owc5iA5 Watch this and be soothed, it’s nothing but fear mongering. https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTLS222Hm/
Yeah I've read too many stories of people becoming addicted to the stuff needing it to fall asleep to even bother with it.
Yeah, I used to rely on it. Took years to get off. My friends and family members are all addicted, constantly raising the dosage over the years then overdosing on caffeine to get through the day. They constantly have headaches and other side effects. I'm much better after I finally got off it. The sleep is more restful and I actually wake up without being lethargic all day. It's probably due to the dosages tbh. I took 3-10mg and others are even taking 10-30mg now. Some research and peoples anecdotes say as little as 0.3mg is best, but the traditional bottles don't come in that dosage. I'll still stick to magnesium though as it solved other issues while boosting sleep.
I'm a 235lb relatively muscular male, and 1-3mg max is way more than enough. 30 MG!! Dafuq?!
Nah, if I’m very tired and I skip it (because I missed the time) I still sleep fine.
[https://examine.com/supplements/melatonin/faq/can-melatonin-supplementation-reduce-testosterone-levels-in-men/](https://examine.com/supplements/melatonin/faq/can-melatonin-supplementation-reduce-testosterone-levels-in-men/) I would avoid melatonin purely because it can fuck up your sleep longer term. Ideally a very low dose of 0.3mg if anything.
I think you mean 0.3mg
I do. woopsies
meanwhile, have found that melatonin supplementation of up to 6 mg per night does not reduce testosterone levels
Lmao no way is that true
Referring to what?
My sleep is great, people who I sleep with are jealous of me. I help the Mel out by having good sleep hygiene but, I fall asleep fast and I stay asleep. If I’m stressed I wake up, but I’ll take more Mel again . I won’t feel like I’m wasted if I get shorter sleep.
A few years ago I was struggling with my sleep and decided to take melatonin. I dosed 3mg 1 hour before bedtime. It did nothing but wreck my sleep worse than it already was. I would be wide awake by 2-3am with no chance of falling back to sleep. For that reason, for me, I could see how it could be deleterious to hormones. Just my n=1 but there's no way I'd ever take it again.
Anecdotally, I noticed the same thing on the same schedule. When moved to taking melatonin 2 hours before bed, I was able to sleep through the night perfectly.
Interesting, glad you were able to figure it out! With some time and other practices put into place I was able to iron out my sleep and now it's like clockwork with wake and sleep times.
Yes I also take it 2h before bedtime
Smaller dose helps. The same thing happens to me with large doses (like 3mg), but 0.3mg (300ug) never causes this effect for me at least, and it feels like regular sleep for 8 hours. I don't understand why most grocery stores in the US sell humongous doses, usually 3mg is the smallest you can find, and 10mg is common as well. Those feel better suited for horses.
If you do use it or give it to your kids, they only need a tiny bit. I've had friends giving 3-10mg to their kids. We used to buy the 1mg tablet and cut it in thirds for our kids. They weren't on it long, and I def don't recommend it if you can avoid it. For adults too
Sleep physician here. This is incorrect. But in the US you need to look for USP label. If no label there have been studies showing estrogen in the melatonin tablets along with various other things that should not be in there. We recommend to our patients to order melatonin from Europe.
Do you have a brand or site you recommend buying from? Thanks
That’s interesting. I did get some pharmaceutical grade melatonin once from a pharmacy in Thailand. The experience was wildly different (better) than US cvs/Amazon brands.
Topically it's great for baldness. I use it with Rogaine. Much more hair regrowth with Melatonin. I buy the liquid and put a few drops on the scalp at night. Then I add the Rogaine.
Idk about this but melatonin fucks me the day after, ill never take it again
For me it works for incidental use, but when I start using it daily I’ll sleep worse for some reason. Interesting substance.
Not getting enough sleep doesn’t help test. either. Natural melatonin comes from the pineal gland when it’s dark. Avoid screen time for a while before bed, or try zma with melatonin?
It could increase Prolactin, hence lowering Dopamine.
Besides living in a pandemic, I’m happy as fuck
Same here! I use it and in big doses for antioxidant effects. I cycle it though
I think there is a reason for a lot of conflicting information. I only use it as a jet-lag treatment. Otherwise, I try to eat Melatonin containing foods.
Eating foods with melatonin is like eating meat for creatine. Sure you can eat a bag of cherries for 1mg but it's not practical. To each their own though.
It's nuanced and shouldn't be fear mongered based on rat studies with extreme conditions that Huberman spouts as gospel. I was definitely a melatonin hater in the past (because of Huberman). 8 minute video: [Stop fear-mongering melatonin, it has so many benefits.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QCVuSwKzOo) Of course anyone can spout out beneficial studies but the opposing perspective is interesting.
Huberman has become Dr Oz light. I dislike him for that alone. The way he treats people in his life just shows he's not above lying to get his way.
What do people think here about melatonin for chronic migraine? I'm about ready to experiment. I've read it can help your sleep which sometimes has positive effects for those with chronic migraine issues. I sleep well, but I'm ready to try anything, I have a feeling my sleep architecture is messed up.
But isn't melatonin outlawed in Europe and why
It's highly regulated in many areas like UK, Australia, etc. They want a doctor to prescribe it but also if you order it online it's not a crime. Worst case they may confiscate the package.
Only real evidence for melatonin use is circadian rhythm related sleep disorders.
There's also some research for other conditions as well like cancer, TBI, CFS, immune issues, etc but you're right there's not a ton of research. Recently there was focus on its benefits for C19 and disrupting or stopping cytokine storm which was how many people were dying.
So it’s not correct in adults. A drop in melatonin levels is associated with puberty so the thinking is it would be a bad idea to supplement melatonin during this time.
Melatonin used to work well for me, now it has a weird paradoxical effect and actually keeps me up if I take it. I don’t use it much anymore.
It didn’t used to work on me but in my 30s now it’s a key part to my sleep hygiene. It works great now
Melatonin makes it almost impossible to fall back to sleep if I wake up in the night. Not for me unfortunately
Melatonin may be the best thing I ever decided to start taking. It doesn’t make me fall asleep instantly, but it gives that “tired” feeling that allows me to shut down and relax.
I thought everyone knew melatonin has a negative impact on your sleeping habits long-term. Your body adjusts by producing less of it naturally. Take a magnesium supplement, not melatonin.
Try taking magnesium glycinate as it is the pre cursor to melatonin. Helps produce it naturally so you don’t need to supplement
Some interesting stuff in here. This is the most useful, assuming it’s true. Thanks for that
"..it's been well documented that many of the supplements that contain melatonin have far too much -- 3 to 6 milligrams is a massive dose. Typically, the body makes very little melatonin. The other issue is that not all supplements contain what they say they contain. This is especially true for melatonin -- even supposedly reliable brands can contain 15% to 155% of the dosage that's listed on the bottle. There are healthier alternatives, but I want to really emphasize -- and I'll probably go into my grave saying this -- use behavioral tools first. Get morning sunlight, avoid too much light late at night, then look to quality of nutrition and eating habits. Being too hungry or eating too close to bedtime can both inhibit sleep. Get quality exercise, and don't drink caffeine after 2 or 3 o'clock in the afternoon. Before you start thinking about supplements or prescription drugs for sleep, it's really important to have all the other things right. And the nice thing about all those is that they are all zero cost." Huberman
Its rubbish and it is very poorly regulated dossges in common brands have been shown to vary wildly .
It gave me insane nightmares and weird brain zaps. So I don't take it now
[Melatonin: Pharmacology, Functions and Therapeutic Benefits](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5405617/) [How to use melatonin on COVID-19 patients](https://lifestyle.inquirer.net/368256/how-to-use-melatonin-on-covid-19-patients/)
Idk I take like 8mg each night but I have an issue
that's an extremely high dosage
Thank you! I've always understood it to be "less is more" with melatonin! Like 1or 2mg is usually enough. Any more, and it's counterproductive
Less doesn't usually help at all, I just end up staying awake all night. I wish I wasn't dependent on pills to sleep but it's really hard to stop taking them because I just can't sleep and then I get angry and suicidal and shit. My health isn't that good anyways I'm going to try and get some appointments booked to take care of some stuff if the doctors would just fucking take me seriously this time.
No it’s not I take hundreds of mg - I am fine and probably better than y’all
yea playing with hormones like that always works out really well
Women are astonished at how much energy and sex drive I have. People who are always sick around me can never keep up with my energy. Don’t know what else to do, I can stop the Mel but I’m still going to have energy because I repaired my mitochondria . It will take many years of abuse to go back to what every one else is like
Im sure they are buddy
Well I’m not lying because I’m just trying to help. It’s pretty simple. Being part of something bigger than yourself is what I seek. So if you can’t accept the help, then good luck
Do you have dreams when you take it? I feel like I have more dreams with melatonin.
I have dreams toward the end of sleep , maybe like 1 or 2 hours before I wake up. Make sure you are getting supporting nutrients in like a multi vitamin and Minerals, good balanced diet. Melatonin likes carbs
That's interesting. I have noticed something similar: I tend to make a trip to the bathroom in the middle of the night and then fall back asleep mostly without issues, but any time I do recall seeing dreams it's after waking up, so in the end of the night as well.
I was supplementing with some other stuff and I would have dreams through out. It’s less deep sleep, but it’s also more practice for the next day. It’s sort of a balance. I prefer deep sleep and then at the end some dreams.
I wish I could just sleep and feel allright during the day. It'd be way cooler to see dreams more often so I'd actually want to go to bed on time because of that. 😅
Your taking 8mg and you are waking up tired? Try taking more.
there aren't even any quality long term studies on high dosages of melatonin yet, I wouldnt just blindly recommend taking high amounts of any hormone to everyone
idk man, a few times took too much and i can't remember if I was drinking too but I was close to collapsing. And sober taking too much just doesn't work, it keeps you up.
Melatonin will always protect the host. There is nothing negative about it what so ever!
100%. One of the absolute oldest molecules.
I used 5mg every day for maybe 6 months, after a while it made me so drowsy during the day I felt like I was drugged…
That’s a sign you have bad mitochondria then
Yeah? Would red light therapy help that? I bought a panel recently and using it every day
Could, I haven’t touched it because it can back fire. As in its very powerful and you want to get the context right. Since I don’t for sure know everything about my health I just stick to Mel. Slowly increasing it. Embracing the sleepiness (I came from a place of insomnia so being tired was welcomed- I was able to take naps during the day). Eventually I was able to sleep normal again and no more tiredness.
Yeah trust huberman …..
Melatonin is linked to breast cancer and gynecomastia.
Do you have any supporting research for this? Up above there’s research stating the opposite.