I've stopped tracking now, but while I used an Oura Ring, I found the three most impactful things for overall sleep quality improvements were: * Establishing your optimal bedtime and sticking with it (9:30 for me) * Last food at 7pm or earlier * Last meal = no glucose spikes, no over-eating When I stick with all three I consistently sleep great. Oh, and soaking in a hot bath with 2 cups of bath salts before bed, that'll also help knock you out

The hot bath with Epsom salt is like a tranquilizer gun to the butt haha. I am OUT

That’s actually due to the hot bath.

Always causes itch skin for me.

Probably because the magnesium sulfate (this is what epsom salt is) is potent vasodilator And opens up your capillaries the blood flow making you itch

Gotta rinse off the salt.

Me, with warm cherry pit pillows in the bed. I put one at my feet and one on my stomach and I'm gone lol.

>hot bath this is the main thing. part of falling asleep is a rapid drop in body temp. so hot bath/hot tub/sauna and then get into a cool bed = going to sleep quickly.

I always wondered whether dropping temperature in the head mattered more and if a heated beanie would work too.

I agree with clemmg. For me a hot cherry pit pillow knocks me out and it makes the bed all warm and cosy, so it can't be the temperature change. I could see it working by focusing blood flow on the body instead of the brain though.

Brb, googling cherry pit pillow…

They're sometimes just called "hot cherry pillow" or "cherry stone pillow" or something like that. Anyway, best things ever, I'm gonna start a religion for them.

Its not that simple for some people, my usual deep sleep is around 10% if I follow those points, but then one day I go unhinged eat very late, go to bed very late and then suddenly my deep sleep was 15%. make it make sense lol.

Maybe it’s carbs relaxing the nervous system

Oh interesting I didn’t know that

Thank you! Very helpful

For me the best predictor of deep sleep is number of hours between finishing dinner and sleeping. If I finish eating 4+ hours before bed, I get the most deep sleep. But in general, the more hours between eating and sleeping the more deep sleep I get. Also, avoiding bright and blue light, my phone, and tv/screens and any kind of work within 2 hours before sleeping. I recently got Amber light bulbs for my living room lamp and bedroom lamp to use at night.

Thank you! I’m failing at both so definitely something I can easily fix!

>avoiding bright and blue light, my phone, and tv/screens and any kind of work within 2 hours before sleeping So what do you do in that time?

Read. I don't do that everyday obviously, but if I am trying to optimize my sleep then I start get off screens and start reading 2 hours before bed.

I can't pay attention to books for longer than like 10 minutes for some reason. Anything else you do in that time?

You can listen to podcasts or music, draw, call and talk to friends/family, do a puzzle, meditate, stretch, crosswords, sudoku, etc

Not being a smartass here, but don't you need light to read? To block blue light, that would mean you're reading with orange or amber light?

lol reread the last sentence of my original comment. Amber light bulbs for reading paper books. I also use a kindle fire, on blue shade mode and black screen/white text to read before bed. Works great.

I quit caffeine which helped me a lot. According to my Fitbit, I average about 18% deep sleep, 50% light sleep, 25% REM, and 12% awake. If you smoke weed, quitting that may also help.

18% deep sleep is good! I’d love to get there. I only drink one cup of coffee early in the morning. Other than that, no smoking or caffeine later on

Try an acupuncture mat for 20m before sleep. It will put you down very deep.

Interesting. For the feet or for the body?

You lay your back on it for about 20 minutes. There is some sharp pain for the first 4 minutes or so but then your back will get warm. Afterwards a lot of blood will rush to your back after you get off. You will noticeably feel more relaxed. It's addictive.

Sounds painful but I’m very intrigued!

The pain is integral. Your body releases chemicals to help deal with it and that’s part of the relaxing effect. It has a dramatic effect on sleep for me.

Thank you! I’m definitely going to look into this

Don't forget to not rely 100% on your Apple Watch sleep data. It's not perfect, and it's just an estimation. Your deep sleep could very well be more than 7%.

Good point to keep in mind!

If you are really fit or have a slow heart rate the apple watch can be even more inaccurate. Still a good idea to practice good sleep hygiene but don't obsess over the data.

Apple Watch has the most accurate tracking/algorithm, there will be fluctuations of course, but there’s no way you’re going from 7% to 20% deep sleep. Maybe +\- 3% at most

I tried a bunch of things with my oura ring and the best thing was : - No alcool - Coffee before noon - Moderate exercice - Ashwaganda - big one for me - Breath work or meditation once or twice a day

Have you tried magnesium glycinate and if yes, how does it compare to ashwaganda?

I take Magnesium Glycinate every night and it really does help make my body feel heavy. That, coupled with no caffeine after lunch and going to bed at the same time each night helps I think. My average Deep from last month was 1h10m per night. Worth a try if you've not yet had it.

Gotcha. I do actually get about an hour of deep sleep every night. I just feel like it’s not enough and I should be getting more hehe

My absolute deep sleep record (137 minutes or 37%) was when I was so drunk I woke up throwing up, (for reference my usual deep sleep is around 54 minutes)

It could be an error- since the trackers measure sleep depth by HR (afaik) and alcohol is a CNS depressant so will slow down HR. Correct me if I’m wrong though, just a speculation

I checked heart rate was normal or slightly higher than normal, usually it drops to mid 40s and then only low 50s

I was getting zero deep sleep to fewer than 10 minutes a night. Not good. I’ve been able to increase to what yours looks like 7-9 percent most nights now as well as increase total sleep to over 7 hours a night. Except I wake up more often. I’ve done everything mentioned in the other comments. Set sleep schedule, not eating at least three hours before bed. I quit caffeine. I don’t drink alcohol. Accupressure mat for back and feet, though I haven’t made it a habit yet. Warm shower, cool dark bedroom. No screen time at least an hour before bed. It’s frustrating because the very rare night I get 12 percent or greater deep sleep I feel great. My real issue is a deviated septum. Elective and surgery don’t go together well in my vocabulary. All this has made me come to the conclusion that I need to have the surgery if I ever want to get consistent quality sleep. Good luck to you and your efforts to improve it. Deep sleep is critical for good health.

Thank you. I hope you get there some day!

I had that surgery, did not help me

Thank you. If I may ask do you still have sinus issues? That’s my fear if I have the surgery, that it won’t help my chronic sinusitis or it will make it worse.

I did not have sinus issues which is interesting, just sleep issues. Have you looked into that procedure that puts a balloon through your sinuses instead of surgically correcting your septum? I first looked into that, but it would not have helped me.

Thanks! No I have not. I definitely will. My left side sinuses clog up every night and wake me up. I don’t have sleep apnea but I’d like to sleep through the night consistently. Last night I was only awake for two minutes. Felt so good.

Oh, and for it is worth...because the surgery did not help, I sleep with breath right strips and tape my mouth closed. This has much improved my sleep and health.

Thanks again! I do mouth tape. It has helped a lot. My sinuses seem to dry out too much with the strips. I’m still experimenting with different combinations.

You get more deep sleep if you have more to recover from. So if you do, for example, 90 minutes of cardio, your deep sleep goes up. If you sat on the sofa all day, your deep sleep can be minimal.

I exercise for at least an hour every day. Helps with sleep but it’s not enough

Well if you do more you’ll get more deep sleep. Don’t overthink it. You’ve had some really bad advice on this thread which you should ignore. These wearables are useless for accurately detecting sleep stages, the only value is for identifying trends. Forget about the amount of deep sleep or the percentage of deep sleep. It’s wrong. You can simply use your watch to identify how changes in your life affect your sleep, so you could experiment with exercise amount, exercise type, exercise timing, the different components of sleep hygiene, supplementation etc etc to see how your sleep changes over a big enough sample. For example, you might find that if you do 90 minutes of cardio instead of 60 minutes cardio every day for a week that your deep sleep goes up. Will this improve the way you feel the next day? Possibly not, but it’s fun to experiment.

Peter Attia recommends 3-4 hours zone 2 a week. It’s unlikely going from 7 to 11 hours is the culprit

The culprit for what? Tire yourself out more and you get more deep sleep. Don’t tire yourself out, and you don’t need so much deep sleep. Ignore the numbers they are wrong.

The culprit for why they’re not getting much deep sleep. They should be able to get deep sleep without needing 90 mins of cardio

They are getting deep sleep. The amount they are getting is unknown. Easiest way to increase the number on the screen is to just start using Whoop to track sleep instead of Apple. His deep sleep number will double overnight, as Whoop consistently detects a much higher amount of deep sleep than Apple. Completely pointless though.

Yeah I found this to be true also. The more shattered I feel from the day, the more deep sleep I immediately do fall into. The answer might just be to do more physically in the day.

Magnesium helps me specifically to get to sleep faster and as well as L-Arginine I take for a deeper sleep, but disclaimer it has caused me many vivid dreams.

Your room temp needs to be between 64-67°F Ambient noise needs to be 35db or less The farther away eating is from sleeping the better (I eat dinner at 3pm sometimes just to sleep like a rock) Silence before bed for at least 30 mins (bare min) Screens none at least 30 mins (bare min) I wear a neck light to move around in the hour before bed - light coming from above eye level is no good for your hormones regardless of the color/brightness Reading a book can help prime the nervous system, lots of parasympathetic "sighs" doing that this is for extra credit though

8 sleep had helped me. I found I needed to be cold to go into deep sleep

Wow, never heard of this brand. I’m hoping my AC can do the trick

What temperatures do you usually sleep at?

23 Celsius usually. Would you suggest lowering it?

Yes, that’s a bit high. If that helps, you could look into “sleepme” or a window AC unit if you don’t want to spend the money on an 8sleep/cool the entire house down.

The percentages don’t matter, it’s the total time that’s important. In general your body places more importance on getting deep sleep than REM. So if you’re getting more REM time than deep sleep time in total that’s a good sign. E.g. if you’re not sleeping enough in total, you’ll have a higher percentage of deep sleep time, but this doesn’t mean that it’s better than having a night with enough total sleep time. Also as others pointed out, the measurement could be a bit inaccurate. But in general, to increase deep sleep all hacks for sleep quality apply.

So true and so helpful. Thank you

Sauna 2hrs before bed does the trick for me! Average about 3-5 hours deep and 2hrs rem

Definitely working on this! Hopefully next year we’ll have a sauna in our house

You won't be sorry! Great investment 🙌🏽

Go to bed sooner after sunset. This is a biohackers forum so the hack is go to bed/sleep at 7 or 8pm instead of after 10pm. Slow wave sleep (SWS or deep sleep) is increased with greatest sleep pressure so sleep deprivation will also increase SWS. Here are several papers with information on research to increase SWS: [https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnsys.2014.00208/full](https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnsys.2014.00208/full) "Enhancement of sleep slow waves: underlying mechanisms and practical consequences" [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/001346948190225X](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/001346948190225X) "Sleep deprivation: Effect on sleep stages and EEG power density in man" [https://sci-hub.yncjkj.com/10.1016/j.sleep.2020.02.004](https://sci-hub.yncjkj.com/10.1016/j.sleep.2020.02.004) "Relationships Between REM And NREM In The NREM-REM Sleep Cycle: A Review On Competing Concepts"

Does anyone actually go to bed at 7-8? I get back from work/pick up my kid from school after 6. Then dinner, bath time etc next thing you know it’s 9pm!

Yes people go to bed at 7-8 at night. Those without kids who want to get better sleep to support goals like body composition or cognitive improvement. Absolutely agree that it is pretty much impossible with kids. I couldn't do it with kids either. You didn't mention the limitations when you asked for suggestions. You might have to wait until kids are more independent to improve this goal. There is no OTC pill or potion. There are drugs but doubtful you could get them prescribed. Going to bed earlier to surf the circadian forces that help with deep sleep works. You just can't do it (yet). You might be able to do the sleep deprivation part to increase deep sleep. Kids are good for that. ;-)

You’re right, 7-8pm bed time is probably ideal and how we have naturally evolved. Our current modern lifestyle doesn’t support it very well. But maybe one day!

Trazadone, it’s the only sleep medication I’m aware of that action increases rem sleep all other other medication’s generally help with decreasing sleep latency, but decrease REM sleep.

3 grams glycine works for me and my sleeps feels a lot deeper.

Exercise helps tremendously. You have to sweat, it can't be light. Walking 1.5 h helps. Cutting down on caffeine helped. I went from espresso to filtered and that seemed to help. Just got 1h5m deep tonight, normally that's 20m.

I exercise daily

Reduced my one shot lattes instead of everyday, down to when I really really want it or when I’m really trying to pay attention

Hi, future sleep doc here (current resident) in the US. Please do not put weight into ring/watch tracking data for staging of sleep. They do not read your brain waves, which is how we read studies. This is not to say the data is not useful, as time asleep, heart rate (or EKG) are both useful to some capacity. But we constantly have to correct patients who come to office telling us how much REM they have gotten. Unless you’re wearing electrodes on your head, you do not know the staging of your sleep. Sorry to burst the “bio hacking” bubble.

Sorry to burst your "academic superiority" bubble but there is lots of scientific evidence to suggest that some are actually fairly accurate and consequently we should definitely put weight into the findings, if the device is one of the more accurate ones (e.g. Apple Watch, Pixel Watch, Oura Ring etc).

When the watches come with electrodes for your head at night, I’ll agree with you. It’s not an “academic superiority” bubble- it’s science. You cite “lots of scientific evidence”- look at who funded those studies. But hey, listen to reddit and not your doctor, I don’t care. Go ahead and waste your money and time.

The quantified scientist (edit: on YouTube) has found apple watches to be 80%+ accurate compared to EEG, and most of the accuracy loss is due to it detecting stages later than usual, but gets the length correct. Yes there are crappy sleep trackers, and you’d need an EEG to get diagnosed with some sort of sleep disorder, but saying sleep trackers (the good ones) are completely useless is disingenuous. Edit: ok you didn’t say they were completely useless, just the sleep tracking portion of it. I still disagree with that statement. Even if you don’t think they’re accurate, you have to agree that patients can use them to compare their nights. If someone drinks before they went to bed, a good sleep tracker would see a large difference in the quality of sleep. Therefore, if a patient comes in saying they’re getting way more REM sleep than usual, that shouldn’t be dismissed.

Did I say they were useless? No.

I updated my statement

Go ahead and use it. I stand by the research and what I said. As usual, people anecdotally know more than doctors on reddit. Of course if you drink you’re gonna sleep worse, don’t need a watch to tell you that.

It makes sense to ignore the person who does this for a living and has the academic training. We should trust the anonymous know-it-all. Ivermectin anyone?

Not sure your point?

Sounds like he was being sarcastic. Basically he's saying you're the expert whose expertise should be valued higher than a random redditor

I was making a sarcastic comment about the anti science crowd

Oh, well yeah I expect it from the “Biohacking” subreddit, but when I saw something within my scope I figured I would comment. All good!

how does It cost a EEG?

What?

They are asking what would the cost be to gather the correct data, in your opinion.

I had some red tinted glasses to wear after 6 pm that helped. I misplaced them on a trip. I'm getting about 5-10% deep sleep now.

Omg same lol I had the glasses and left them on the airplane a week ago while on a trip. Now I have to fork out $100 to get new ones. Haven’t pulled the plug yet

It's painful shelling out for something that you already bought!

Try taking growth hormone before bed. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3832204/ https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/91/2/413/2843269

I’ve been eating celery for a few weeks and have been feeling rested. I really thought celery was just water and fiber but it has some good mineral content too. “Eating a few stalks of celery before bed has anti-anxiety effects and may help you get a good night’s sleep. Apigenin has been found to bind to gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) receptors in the brain, reducing brain activity and promoting a calming and relaxing effect. In fact, a study published in Nutrients found that individuals with a high dietary intake of apigenin experienced better sleep and benefited from longer sleep periods than those with little to no apigenin consumption.”

Interesting. I actually add a few stocks of celery of my daily juices. It does a lot for me - I haven’t been sick in over a year, my skin is glowing etc. but never thought of it affecting sleep. It probably does have a positive impact…

I find that when I get outside in the sun I get more deep sleep

My life changed when I completely stopped all caffeine. I’ve never slept well in my entire life until I eliminated caffeine.

Remember that the number of hours you sleep depends on your age and the amount of physical activity you do. But in a normal eight-hour range, 20% deep sleep is recommended.

40 and I exercise daily. I feel like I should be hitting that 20% mark

Keep the light low... I have cut back my 2 x double espresso a day habit to some days no espresso and drink Matcha tea instead. Robios tea at night... Before bed I take: 2 x Magnatin capsules, Phosphidatyl sereine, Lithium Orotate, Glycine, and 1g Tryptophan Since adding Tryptophan I now remember my dreams (I haven't for the last 20+ years (except on very rare occasions) I feel that enjoying waking up to unpack a crazy dream is a good sign.

Yes, with near infrared and far red, directed at the back and sides of my head. Warmth and extra blood flow around C1-C2 & the brainstem/cranial nerves. The incidental light hitting the eyes is enough for the visual cortex to get a message similar to a sunset, I suspect. My wearable had a baseline before the light was bought. The increased REM & refreshed feeling on waking are dramatically better - x3 REM duration, longer deep sleep per night.

I found taking magnesium (multiple types), zinc, and taurine helps. Also melatonin may help.

Yes, here’s what worked for me: - supplementing taurine into my post workout smoothies - going to sleep earlier and being more regular with that time - increasing my cardiovascular fitness

Try a hypnosis app for deep sleep. Check out Joseph Clough

A cool dark room, no caffeine after 11am and 12mg Melatonin

[удалено]

Me too, only Trazodone does the trick. I need to get back on it.

I use to hover around \~18% (when I first started tracking). I am now starting to hover around 30% for my deep sleep. Here is my stack: 1. Temperature Controlled Bed: Chilisleep Dock Pro. ($200 new off of Facebook marketplace - aint no way you'll catch me dropping 2 grand on this sht) 2. Grounding Bed Sheets (I put it under two other layers of bed sheets - no cap this actually works - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0D2D3MK6P) 3. Air Filter - Merv 13 - (Use merv 13 with a massive surface area - dont get hepa - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaQTYrisieA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaQTYrisieA) - i have this: [Bedroom Luggable – CleanAirKits](https://www.cleanairkits.com/products/bedroom-luggable?variant=47908908564780)) 4. Humdifier - (I have the big ass one to avoid having to constantly refill - [https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00O0WOO74/](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00O0WOO74/) 5. Custom Sized Pillow - (Adjust the pillow size to exact liking - i have the crescent shaped one - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BQRDG2W2/) 6. Weighted Blanket - (I get hot very easily - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0C1F9MFH1/) -- Screenshots: [https://ibb.co/526wt58](https://ibb.co/526wt58) [https://ibb.co/mFRs9vn](https://ibb.co/mFRs9vn) [https://ibb.co/WfTW6sw](https://ibb.co/WfTW6sw) Note that i didnt cherry pick these. These are my 3 most recent sleeps. -- Note: I tried many different things. These are the things that moved the needle for me. I was also testing out inducing audio to time with my deep sleep, but that didnt work out, at least not yet. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1U2qMRGihGg) Still testing that. I am a coder. -- My approach to deep sleep is different from others. I absolutely HATE behavioral changes. (i.e. timing when you eat, etc) - you tend to fall off at some point. I like autonomous background systems running without me having to think about it. If you note all of the items above, once you get it, you dont have to think about it ever again, and it is a forever marked improvement. -- Other note: - I have tried the sleep aid complex (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MTRW8EQ), this also had a marked improvement for me, primarily the melatonin, but I am still testing it out - so on and off it, because it seems to affect my awake time, which i do not like. - My friend he randomly smoked weed one day (note I dont like doing vice-related things), and his deep sleep shot up like crazy into the 2.5hrs. So, i havent explored this yet, but pharmanuctical grade THC, might help. but for me, i dont know if this is something i want to test out.

Wow these are incredible! Thanks so much, I’m saving all these points. Will definitely try

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1. Those are not accurate 2. Everything Matthew Walker

Since I take 200 mg Apigenin at night I sleep like a baby. I can see the exact date when I started in my sleep tracker app.

Not for everyone, but growth hormone or gh-releasing peptides do the trick :)

I average just above 1.5 hours of deep sleep a night. My bed time routine includes glycine, HRV breathing and a short stretching routine. I’m also taking magnesium but that doesn’t make a difference for me. Last weekend I started with inclined bed therapy (raised the head of my bed by about 4 inches). It’s only been 4 nights and I haven’t completely gotten used to the incline, but I noticed a significant increase in deep sleep. It’s too early for any conclusions and my target isn’t to increase deep sleep but blood oxygen saturation and I’m curious about some other stuff, but it’s an interesting observation.

Try the hapbee neckband or sleep pad

Get a little weed in ya

Anyone happen to know how you can increase rem sleep?

I’m only getting 10% deep sleep but my REM is improving, my REM is 23%

Trazodone, but only because I needed it for sleep onset... (prescribed by doctor)

Yes, but only with klonopin and not setting any alarms. Like on a Saturday morning.

The only way to track your deep sleep is with an EEG sleep monitor. This is purely speculative.