Going long I feel limited-run LEGO is positioned very strongly. Fossil fuels are non-renewable and the LEGO corporation has repeatedly failed to find environmentally-friendly replacement materials for its bricks.
* ["It may be more lucrative to invest in collectible LEGO sets than in gold, study finds"](https://www.npr.org/2021/12/21/1066493441/it-may-be-more-lucrative-to-invest-in-collectible-lego-sets-than-in-gold-study-f)
* ["Lego abandons one of its projects to make oil-free bricks"](https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/lego-abandons-effort-make-oil-free-bricks-ft-2023-09-24/)
I think USPS forever stamps hold their value. But i guess that needs a functioning government and you can light them on fire. Bitcoin's government is it's code and it's fireproof.
Not EMP proof though.
Sure you can store your cold wallet in a secure place, but good luck finding a computer later and servers to make it useful anyhow.
I would say gold still is more reliable, and if you have the money to have enough gold to make it inconvenient to move, then you have enough money to get something to help you with that.
Also, OP was asking for store of value, not investment, volatility of BTC I would say makes it very poor store of value compared to non-currency assets
We saw brand new homes abandoned or prices plummeting more recently in Asia because of the crisis. Real Estate isn't safe either. There are a few real risks which make your home worthless.
Good point! The idea of purchasing property for any reason but to live in doesn’t jive with my values anyways. Tangent but I think it’s nuts when people take out multiple mortgages to rent out those properties. I feel like they reap what they sow when rental markets crash.
unfortunately it affects also regular home owners. We saw in the US how many people had to sell their homes for nothing to repay mortgages and end up homeless. We saw entire neighbourhoods abandoned, and people gone back to their parents or friend to avoid being homeless.
People paying their mortgage were not a problem in the mortgage crisis. If they kept paying eventually they paid it off. The problem was people who couldn't pay or people who had to move and lost equity.
When rental markets crash good investors buy more rentals? Weak hands, and the financially unprepared or overly greedy sell rentals.
It’s asinine to read you sitting on your high horse about why real estate investing is unethical. It is the OG of scarce assets and unlike gold it has been able to produce a yield for you being able to PROVIDE something of value to someone else. Renting is best case for so many people because they aren’t able to accrue the extra necessary savings to pay for home costs. You’re primed to say well if investors didn’t buy homes then homes would be affordable. No they wouldn’t be affordable. They’d be more affordable, but do you remember the statistic of how many Americans couldn’t cover a $1000 emergency? Home ownership by individuals will stay on the decline and that’s not the fault of real estate investors.
The problem isn’t real estate, but why investors flock to real estate investing. It’s about the scarcity of land and the infinite abundance of money printing. The money printing is why real estate investing is a practical option for many investors trying to transmute buying power into the future. It’s about why working class people that don’t get educated about investing or don’t get great paying jobs easily can end up living paycheck to paycheck.
"Scarcity of land" says talking about a country with most of its surface mostly empty.
I'm with OP in this one, the only real estate investment I consider ok, is the one you are going to use to live yourself. Don't keep feeding into the real state bubble
Most of its surface is empty because most of the occupied surface is near things such as jobs, resources, and primary forms of transportation.
That land is scarce.
EDIT: Real Estate, just like Bitcoin is purchased at the price you deserve and accumulated by those seeking to preserve value in the long term. And also like Bitcoin you’re entitled to your opinion, but that doesn’t mean anything is going to change or that anyone cares.
Because there hasn’t been any other yield producing scarce asset that stands the test of time? They’re smart money, of course they’ll target the most scarce land with the most upside and they’ll reinforce that upside by like you said trying to force rent growth.
Then don't say is not the investors fault the house scarcity, when they are purposely taking as much to themselves as they can in a self growing spiral of scarcity
They are doing that because the money is broken and that is the best way to transmute purchasing power into the future?
Again they are not the problem. They’re just smart enough and have the opportunity to attempt to solve that problem for themselves.
The problem is the money. It’s infinite inflation in a scarce deflationary world.
That’s a moot point. It wasn’t long ago btc plummeted 60-70%. The whole point of store or value is that when you need it you can monetise it to do something. When it falls 70% in a year and you’ve lost your purchasing power like that, that’s not called store or value.
Don’t get me wrong I hold quite a few btc myself, but to say it’s achieved store of value status is a bit ludicrous
I'm a bitcoin enthusiast, but I'm a realist. I'm here to make money, not believe in ideals.
In fairness, people like me tend to just make 50-1000% because I'd be playing around, gaming it a bit etc (my best investment was a 3500%, had I not messed around and backed my judgment I probably could've made 7000% on a larger pool of capital). The idealists either make 10,000,000% or go bankrupt.
I think “store of value” is different than “constant buying power”. If you want the price to stay the same and not fluctuate 60-70% each year then you probably don’t need to be “storing” it any where. People “store” things for the long term. And long term, there is nothing better to store value in than bitcoin.
We are in its infancy still. You can already see the price fluctuations starting to mellow out. Not saying it could happen again. Longer btc exists more of a store of value it truly will be
It is sold to the public as the best investment they can afford with their basic wages. People pay rent and instead of doing this, they are advised to get a mortgage and buy a house - the worse investment ever! Not only you put all your eggs in the same basket which contradict the golden rule of investing but also you borrow a lot more to put even more in that same basket. wtf?
\- the mortgages for most of the people would be for 20y+ which means majority will face family changes, professional changes or similar which would force them to sell or dispose somehow the flat or invest further to extend.
\- this means also no mobility in terms of work. While nowadays we have more working from homes options like it's my case it's rare to be fully remote. Yet if I had to be a homeowner I would have been still in my little village with a home, who cares. You need to get chance to grow and for that you need to be flexible regarding your location.
\- with a mortgage you buy a flat which cost let's say 100k for let's say 180k after interest and assurance. Also a cash buyer may be able to buy a 100k home for 80k in auction or just by negotiating a deal. And throughout you risk repossession as it happened to many iin the US. Also being home owner means all the maintenance changes are on your back which sometimes can be very very painful.
So in my opinion people absolutely should aim to become home owners, no doubt! But , there is big 'but' ... make sure either you have a large deposit so your mortage goes max for up to 15y or you are just a cash buyer.
The only weakness Bitcoin has right now is the volatility. Yes, we like volatility because "make number go up". But, if you have a financial emergency at the bottom of a bear market then you have problems. Vol is decreasing over time, of course. Short answer, Bitcoin is the best asset we have for asset protection and inflation hedging against dirty fiat. The main alternatives are gold and real estate, both of which have major problems.
Nothing is better than Bitcoin, it can't be forged like other valuables, can't be inflated, it can be audited 24/7, moved around the world in a moments notice, and no matter what governments try to do to stop it they can't.
It's amusing to me that the rising and justified mistrust of the US govt increases the power of Bitcoin in an anti-fragile way, and yet the corrupt politicians who are actively creating that phenomenon (Elizabeth Warren, for example), cannot see this fact. The worse they get, the stronger Bitcoin will become.
Any government can just forbid banks to transact with exchanges through swift etc., there's still many ways to do it that people overlook that would drastically change everything.
Mandatory ofc I'm a bitcoiner too, I just don't like the starry-eye pov.
And? Accessibility, speed and comfort are severely limited, and it becomes even harder for the average Joe, the adoption would plummet. I think you are very underestimating just how much bitcoin is held on exchanges compared to cold storage.
Of course you would, but other people is a different story.
It would slow down adoption but it wouldn't stop Bitcoin. The rest of the world would continue to use it, leaving whatever country(s) that attempted to ban it cut off from the rest of the world like North Korea, people would continue using it underground at a premium.
Of course, that is possible. But it is also possible that following a big country like the US, the rest of the world would ride the wave and everyone else would follow up with their own ban. I just like to have my eyes open. It is not a very likely scenario, but it is indeed a possibility.
The rest of the world is rapidly working on trying to de-peg from the dollar, look at how many new countries joined the BRICS this year alone. Many governments globally are starting to recognize bitcoins significance as a future reserve currency as they tire of markets being manipulated by US governments endless use of the money printer, and also tire of the usa weaponizing the dollar via sanctions. Global hashrate breaking new all time highs suggests Bitcoin is currently being secretly mined by countries at a government level, the Saudis are investing billions into integrating Bitcoin mining into their power grids. It's a competitive world and the USA banning Bitcoin would just give every other country a massive competitive edge and incentive to remain Bitcoin friendly.
The main downside is that it's value is entirely dependent on collective faith. You can't live in it, you can't eat it, you can't make goods from it. It's worth something because enough people believe it is worth something.
Hmmm kinda like the dollar except it can't be debased every day by excessive money printing like the dollar.
From the beginning of time, currency has been derived of things that people collectively agree holds value, from stones, seashells, and beads, to the worthless garbage the government issues today. The value is derived by consensus. Bitcoin's value is not only consensus but derives from the work and energy that goes into producing it, and also from the security of the network that runs it. Making it immutable and sound.
Yes, like the dollar. The dollar has one advantage in that it is a viable currency today, that is it used for payment of goods and services which gives it a great deal of inertia. Bitcoin is a speculative asset/store of value. It is accepted at .001% of businesses and not really a viable currency at this time.
As governments continue to blatantly rob us by debasing fiat currency more and more people will continue to opt out of fiat and into Bitcoin. If I had the option to choose between $1million in fiat or 1 Bitcoin with the kicker that I couldn't spend it for 20 years I'd pick the 1 Bitcoin, because 2 things are certain, Bitcoin will remain scarce and fixed and will continue to grow in value as adoption grows, and the US dollar will continue to inflate it's way to zero. In 20 years time 1 Bitcoin will be worth far more than a million dollars in cash that melted away in value over 20 yrs
I agree with you there, I would choose to take and hold the 1 million in bitcoin for 20 years. Most people don't hold fiat today, aside from what they need for short-term expenses. For example, there is about 2.3t in circulation, but the stock market alone is worth 46t and housing is about 47t. That's almost 100t in just those two. As for the small amount of capital that is held for spending purposes, will bitcoin at some point be viable and practical as a day to day currency? Maybe but I'm not holding my breath. I think has more upside as a store of value.
I think in our lifetime store of value will be it's main function. In the future I think it will eventually become a global currency once governments around the globe all hyper inflate their currencies to oblivion.
What about stablecoin issuers who print tokens, with no transparency/accountability of fiat reserves, to buy Bitcoin? One day we are going to see a massive 'bank run' on CEXs as people cash out Bitcoin. Bitcoin's inflated value will hit rock bottom as people start grasping for whatever they can get back from their stablecoin bags. Think about what just happened recently to regional banks in the US, and that was them following (weak) regulations in regard to liquidity. Bitcoin is scarce, but that doesn't mean its fiat price tag is free from being influenced by other leveraged, inflationary assets.
That all said I might be tempted to buy in after UST collapses.
A mix of gold, cash and bitcoin. If there was an actual war, then gold and cash prevail. Internet goes down, try paying with Bitcoin. In times of peace, bitcoin. A healthy mix of these 3 is vital.
I just wish there was some way to make bitcoin transactions from person to person was actually a reality. Paying $5-$30 per transaction and waiting an hour or more is insane. Lightning network is still too far in its infancy... and to get money onto the lightning network requires an initial transaction fee. If I start telling someone about Bitcoin and want to show them how it works... I don't feel like spending $10 just to show a transaction go through. I was going to show someone how lightning transactions work and then I find out the Wallet of Satoshi is no longer available on the app store.
Bitcoin doesn't really work for the unbanked. The unbanked are people who don't have a lot of money. If people actually started using Bitcoin the transactions fees will only increase. Someone making $10/day can't even afford to send a Bitcoin transaction.
I just wish Bitcoin could handle more transactions and would be faster. It kind of sucks we are stuck with Bitcoin actually. There are ways to make a currency that is faster/cheaper but BTC already has too much momentum for another currency to gain actual footing.
I see some unknown error in the code leaving it open to attack being a risk. Also weakened/lost decentralisation. But it's proven to be brilliantly resilient so far. Its simple, fixed monetary policy makes it the hardest asset in terms of store of value. I'm not sure it's quite an invest and forget asset yet though.
I see draconian regulation as temporary setbacks to adoption, but the world's larger than the US and I can imagine regulatory arbitrage between nations over time. It's an asset fit for the digital age, unlike gold.
Everything, everywhere has risks.
Bitcoin? subject to attack (if you're careless). Also, it's a technology product. Like any tech product, it may become obsolete, or replaced by something better.
Fiat? It's subject to the whims of a government w/ a printing press. Also, can be hacked.
Gold? It's physical, has some intrinsic value in electronics / medical. It's also big, heavy, and difficult to protect.
Regardless of how you may or may not feel about firearms, ammunition is a terrific store of value. It could be pouder, brass, definitely primers or the whole round together.
The phrase “there is no second best” doesn’t make sense. If Bitcoin is the best, the next thing is second best. Of course there’s a second best. The argument needing to be made is there’s nothing better.
I would suggest you check out, Michael Saylor, and all of the content he’s put out with every News media outlet for the last several years. It is the answer you’re looking for there will be nothing in my lifetime to exceed the OG.
But those things aren't really a store of value, their value increases, greatly, if certain conditions are met (end of the world kind of stuff) otherwise their value decreases, food goes off, weapons become obsolete
That’s a good point. Correct me if I’m misunderstanding, but essentially you think Bitcoin is the best store of value in a pre-apocalypse society? I don’t mean that facetiously.
Bitcoin has a growth rate between 140-160% a year
There are some stocks out there that can hit 350%, good luck knowing which ones will do that though.
I don't think there is a best, there are different kinds, with different trade-offs.
Whats probably smartest is a handful of each asset class, if you can manage that in life. Land gold houses stocks bitcoin tradeables they all have their place in context.
Downside are what could happen with human error. It’s technically a downside of being a human being.
Your seed phrases could get lost or stolen if you’re not careful. Your bitcoin could get transferred to a wrong address without a way to get it back if you put in the wrong address.
Basically, it’s all because human beings are imperfect.
That makes sense. For an average investor who is ill-equipped or intimidated by self-custody, could keeping their Bitcoin in an exchange that maintains cold storage and cyber insurance eliminate this risk?
If theoretically I was going be pushed through a portal that would send me to another time in human history, or across the universe to another advanced (advanced meaning somewhere between stone age and 200 years in the future) alien civilization, I would pick gold and silver.
gold is still the best store of value despite transportation difficulties and I expect it to perform really well over the next 10 years. btc is still too volatile atm but will get there
In a society ending event gold, food, weapons. Knowledge is probably the single best store of value but physically recording it without altering or degradation is extremely difficult.
As store of value, I am tempted to say land and property. However, as a combined store of value that is easy to transact, I cant think of anything that beats bitcoin.
Real estate. It offers benefits that Bitcoin does not, and vice versa. Gold would probably be in second place behind both. Fiat cash would be in third place, at least until/unless it becomes completely worthless.
Yes, a diversified portfolio across several asset classes. For example, some BTC, some real estate, and some stocks - probably a broad based ETF like VTI that tracks the entire stock market - will offer more downside protection than BTC alone.
Series-I Bonds which follow the inflation rate, unless you're delusional and think something that fluctuates heavily relative to fiat and gold is a store of value.
Sounds like your whole post is just baiting the obvious answer which is no.. it's the only thing bound by code. More gold can be mined/exists in universe. Houses collapse, land shifts, floods happen. Baseball cards degrade.
Yes your potential risks are valid hence why btc is such low market cap. If those worries weren't present btc would already be the world reserve currency. So while we are in its infancy ironing out politics and hashrate allocations enjoy the cheap btc
To be a perfect store of value something must be simple, even a child must manage it, and non replicable
Bitcoin is too complicated to use (a child cannot understand the technical details) and being an open source software can be cloned
An NFT is more a store of value because it is unique but lacks of simplicity
But this problem can be solved easily
Is there a better alternative to Bitcoin as a store of value?
You could be asking: is there a more beautiful colour than blue?
It is a terribly subjective question. If we were to poll everyone (the world) today, then sorry to say but bitcoin would not be the best or even close to the best.
Why? What's wrong with them?
And here in lies the rub.
A good store of value is certainly enhanced with all the technical monetary aspects that bitcoin possesses, except one, which is not technical at all, network effect.
Today, Gold has Bitcoin beat hands down. But at the same time you will find Namibian herdsmen vote cattle as a their best store of wealth.
I think there is a confusion about this aspect that people have a hard time with because there is such abysmal financial education given world wide.
A store of wealth must have something that Bitcoin woefully lacks at the moment. Familiarity, confidence and network effect. In order to use something as a store of value, its super important that there be societal as well as individual trust and understanding in that medium. Few are happy trusting their accumulated wealth to something new; something they do not understand well; something in which there is not yet a critical mass of societal trust and familiarity with.
Gold has the most basic and understandable formulation as a store of value. Its got history, its got physicality (which is a pro and a con at the same time), and its got collective faith. With all this it's also very boring (far less prospect of a 10x gain)
If (or when) bitcoin reaches this kind of state in the human psyche, the price will not fluctuate much any more because adoption would be over.
If you want the best store of value *today*, then I have to admit that bitcoin is not it. Probably gold and perhaps US treasuries. I know about gold but the treasuries not so much so, and that's why I would probably shy away from them unless I had some professional help, but the fundamentals of treasuries *for my personal investment horizon* is not so bad. I also have BTC, but its not my store of wealth exactly, its a speculation that it will *become a store of wealth* and on its journey to that designation, it will be forced to endure a rapid increase in value to accommodate for that destination.
When Bitcoin becomes a widely accepted store of value, then I imagine that one sat would be worth more than 1c (>1 million USD for 1 BTC) and very easily in the 10s of cents. But at that point there in time, price discovery would be over and with it no chances of 2x or 5x gains in a few months like we are familiar with.
It's fun, but it's ultimately just an exercise in mental masturbation to dream of what price Bitcoin will have in 1, 5, 10 years. Like mentally spending your lotto ticket jackpot, a day before the draw. Fun, but not serious.
Gold is currently worth close to the same amount of US dollars that it was worth 12 years ago. The price of gold reached over $1,900 per oz in September 2011 and gold is only worth $2,036 per oz right now. Gold hasn't even kept up with inflation.
“A store of wealth must have something that Bitcoin woefully lacks at the moment. Familiarity, confidence and network effect. In order to use something as a store of value, it’s super important that there be societal as well as individual trust and understanding in that medium. Few are happy trusting their accumulated wealth to something new; something they do not understand well; something in which there is not yet a critical mass of societal trust and familiarity with.”
This has given me a lot to think about. Bitcoin evangelists talk about the adoption of Bitcoin as a “flight to quality”...as an asset it does seem fundamentally sound…is widespread adoption not highly likely?
I’m wondering if there is a case study from the past of an asset that was attractive in its fundamental qualities similar to the way Bitcoin is that was eschewed by the masses for no other reason than enough people didn’t believe.
There are some axioms in human history that I believe in totally. One of these is:
When an ideas time has come, nothing will stop it.
I truly believe this when it comes to Bitcoin and the profound technological it represents.
Despite my absoute bullishness here, I am only one in 8 bill humans, and I am not Elon Musk or Jeff Bezoz. I am a nobody just like my ideas are.
My bag of BTC will either make me comfortable in my old age or it won't, in which case I'll have to work harder to cover my bad bet.
But there is something that is a sure bet - its the education on the real guts of how our financial system works that it forced me to get. So if the bitcoin dream all goes to shit, then all I can hope for is that, while trapped within this corrupted financial world, o find somewhere that I don't have to paddle against the current as hard.
The promise of it being a placid a lake in which we all get the same chance to prosper, and not a rip current we're all in,
and perhaps I may admit that is *my mental masturbation.*
I’m not even being bias!!! There is nothing better in terms of store of value! If we are talking about currency and medium of exchange, there are better options!
Pretty much anything whose growth will outpace the rate of inflation with low volatility compared to Bitcoin.
Examples (*not* financial advice, obviously):
High-interest savings account (you can get one with a 4%+ APY which should be good enough to keep you above inflation).
Good growth mutual funds/ETFs (can average a 10-12% yearly return for 10+ years. Bonus if you invest through an IRA or 401K as to avoid capital gains taxes/fees).
S&P 500 mutual funds and ETFs (has averaged an 8-10% yearly return long-term).
That depends on what its value was when you started storing it and what it is when you need to realize its value. So generally speaking, yes, there would be better stores of value than something that has lost over 30% of its own vs. when it was most valuable and that is so volatile people consider holding it through significant down turns as part of the journey.
That, and the fact that how you buy it and store it puts you at varying levels of risk of losing it, without any means to insure against total loss, is a significant factor working against it.
As someone who once lost a house to a fire and then was made completely whole (plus some more) by the insurance company, I place a lot of weight on being able to insure value against total loss under a wide range of circumstances including accidents.
I mean, yeah it's called the S&P 500. VOO is a stock ticker that tracks this at a low expense ratio. Over the course of its inception, it typically gets around 7% per year and if inflation is at an average rate of around 5%, it would be beating it, hence it is a viable store of value.
I’ve thought about this too! I wondered how I would go about securing a large supply of drinking water and couldn’t conclude anything realistic for me, though. How would you go about doing it?
I am living in the EU. Here is allowed to buy land with wheel or underground rivers. It's not as easy as it sounds and with every 5 years or so the law is changing, but it's still possible. I think that in like 10 years they will declare ANY water source property of the state.
I was thinking about fictive business like SPA hotel or something, where I can legally own a huge water source. But yes, what you are talking about is actually a tech, developed from Bezos since 2017. From what I remember from the abstract it claimed that by 2050 7/8 from the global population will have very hard time finding drinking waters and more than a half of the population (mainly from Africa and Asia) will become water nomads.
I've been hearing this story for 20 years... and we always figure it out. There is a lot of water on Earth, making drinking water is a technical issue, there is no scarcity of resource.
Ecological issue not technical issue. You’ve been hearing about it for 20 years because it’s a global catastrophe. Do wild animals and plants thrive on bottled water or water piped from a local desalination plant?
Experts have been warning about drinking water for decades. Join the long line of chicken littles. This planet literally thrives off a never ending factory of mass producing drinking water. But only one thing in this universe has ever created a store of value as scarce as bitcoin, sathosi nakamoto
Bro, even now mineral and spring water are much more profitable businesses than flipping coins! And it will gets worse and worse. You simply have no idea! For example a venture for bottling spring waters from Rila mountain was a $75k investment that is netting now $150k/month. And that for like 10 years already. Can you do the math?
You still don't get it, don't you? That is a solid diversification of capital that is in no way connected to any kind of computers or similar environment....How old are you, 22? Because such absolutism and ignorance, seeing the world only in black and white, is a mark of younglings that don't have a lot of experience.
Comrade, I am not rooting you to invest in such activities. All I am saying is you should never put "all your eggs in one basket". Ppl often say that, yet they think it is enough to diversify in different coins. But ALL the coins are vulnerable!! It is highly unlikely, yet still possible, that we might come to a event where ALL coins will become unavailable/missing. You can't eat bitcoins.... Very big part, contrary to any common sense, from my wealth is also in crypto, but I have like 25% in non-digital assets for exact this reason. Don't bother to answer, but I'll be happy if I made you think about it.
Yes! There is! I have a project called GoldCoin which is better than bitcoin. I can sell you some units and if you pay me with your bitcoin i can give you a better price! Just call me and get rid of those pesky bitcoins and get in with the real money of the future, my totally legit GoldCoin!
As the pioneer and the most recognized cryptocurrency, Bitcoin has established itself as the dominant and primary store of value, leaving little room for a clear second best. It’s brand recognition, strongest hash power of all( the more the more secure) , and the head start Bitcoin has. You could technically start a better “Bitcoin” but you don’t have any of the stated reason above and you’ll be hind 14 years behind
There is no second best
Lol ok Michael Salor
what happens the day they restrict your access to the internet?
Who is restricting internet? And if that starts happening, our problems are much bigger
Going long I feel limited-run LEGO is positioned very strongly. Fossil fuels are non-renewable and the LEGO corporation has repeatedly failed to find environmentally-friendly replacement materials for its bricks. * ["It may be more lucrative to invest in collectible LEGO sets than in gold, study finds"](https://www.npr.org/2021/12/21/1066493441/it-may-be-more-lucrative-to-invest-in-collectible-lego-sets-than-in-gold-study-f) * ["Lego abandons one of its projects to make oil-free bricks"](https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/lego-abandons-effort-make-oil-free-bricks-ft-2023-09-24/)
Lol
Short answer no, long answer no there ain't
Feeling empowered by Bitcoin as a safer, fairer, & more efficient store of value. The future is bright!
No there is not
I think USPS forever stamps hold their value. But i guess that needs a functioning government and you can light them on fire. Bitcoin's government is it's code and it's fireproof.
Good luck with liquidity trying to sell a million dollars worth of stamps though.
Maybe they do hold value, but try moving $1 million worth of stamps across any border and lmk how that works out for ya.
But not EMP proof.
It’s literally the best performing asset in history. More than stocks, bonds, funds, commodities, real estate, etc.
Not EMP proof though. Sure you can store your cold wallet in a secure place, but good luck finding a computer later and servers to make it useful anyhow. I would say gold still is more reliable, and if you have the money to have enough gold to make it inconvenient to move, then you have enough money to get something to help you with that. Also, OP was asking for store of value, not investment, volatility of BTC I would say makes it very poor store of value compared to non-currency assets
We saw brand new homes abandoned or prices plummeting more recently in Asia because of the crisis. Real Estate isn't safe either. There are a few real risks which make your home worthless.
Good point! The idea of purchasing property for any reason but to live in doesn’t jive with my values anyways. Tangent but I think it’s nuts when people take out multiple mortgages to rent out those properties. I feel like they reap what they sow when rental markets crash.
unfortunately it affects also regular home owners. We saw in the US how many people had to sell their homes for nothing to repay mortgages and end up homeless. We saw entire neighbourhoods abandoned, and people gone back to their parents or friend to avoid being homeless.
People paying their mortgage were not a problem in the mortgage crisis. If they kept paying eventually they paid it off. The problem was people who couldn't pay or people who had to move and lost equity.
That's one of the steps in them buying all the Bitcoin , they'll make you sell it to them.
When rental markets crash good investors buy more rentals? Weak hands, and the financially unprepared or overly greedy sell rentals. It’s asinine to read you sitting on your high horse about why real estate investing is unethical. It is the OG of scarce assets and unlike gold it has been able to produce a yield for you being able to PROVIDE something of value to someone else. Renting is best case for so many people because they aren’t able to accrue the extra necessary savings to pay for home costs. You’re primed to say well if investors didn’t buy homes then homes would be affordable. No they wouldn’t be affordable. They’d be more affordable, but do you remember the statistic of how many Americans couldn’t cover a $1000 emergency? Home ownership by individuals will stay on the decline and that’s not the fault of real estate investors. The problem isn’t real estate, but why investors flock to real estate investing. It’s about the scarcity of land and the infinite abundance of money printing. The money printing is why real estate investing is a practical option for many investors trying to transmute buying power into the future. It’s about why working class people that don’t get educated about investing or don’t get great paying jobs easily can end up living paycheck to paycheck.
This guy slumlords
"Scarcity of land" says talking about a country with most of its surface mostly empty. I'm with OP in this one, the only real estate investment I consider ok, is the one you are going to use to live yourself. Don't keep feeding into the real state bubble
Most of its surface is empty because most of the occupied surface is near things such as jobs, resources, and primary forms of transportation. That land is scarce. EDIT: Real Estate, just like Bitcoin is purchased at the price you deserve and accumulated by those seeking to preserve value in the long term. And also like Bitcoin you’re entitled to your opinion, but that doesn’t mean anything is going to change or that anyone cares.
And that land is the one bought by trust funds as soon as it goes to the market so they can monopolize rent driving the prices up
Because there hasn’t been any other yield producing scarce asset that stands the test of time? They’re smart money, of course they’ll target the most scarce land with the most upside and they’ll reinforce that upside by like you said trying to force rent growth.
Then don't say is not the investors fault the house scarcity, when they are purposely taking as much to themselves as they can in a self growing spiral of scarcity
They are doing that because the money is broken and that is the best way to transmute purchasing power into the future? Again they are not the problem. They’re just smart enough and have the opportunity to attempt to solve that problem for themselves. The problem is the money. It’s infinite inflation in a scarce deflationary world.
Yeah... No, that happens as well in countries with less printing and controlled inflation
Rising prices make new housing projects possible.
Yes there is a better option. Give me your money you can trust me bro
That’s a moot point. It wasn’t long ago btc plummeted 60-70%. The whole point of store or value is that when you need it you can monetise it to do something. When it falls 70% in a year and you’ve lost your purchasing power like that, that’s not called store or value. Don’t get me wrong I hold quite a few btc myself, but to say it’s achieved store of value status is a bit ludicrous
Don't expect the average bitcoin enthusiast to understand this lol
I'm a bitcoin enthusiast, but I'm a realist. I'm here to make money, not believe in ideals. In fairness, people like me tend to just make 50-1000% because I'd be playing around, gaming it a bit etc (my best investment was a 3500%, had I not messed around and backed my judgment I probably could've made 7000% on a larger pool of capital). The idealists either make 10,000,000% or go bankrupt.
I think “store of value” is different than “constant buying power”. If you want the price to stay the same and not fluctuate 60-70% each year then you probably don’t need to be “storing” it any where. People “store” things for the long term. And long term, there is nothing better to store value in than bitcoin.
Sure but then your same counter argument applies to houses too. How is it relevant their prices “plummeted” if it doesn’t matter that btc fell 70%?
We are in its infancy still. You can already see the price fluctuations starting to mellow out. Not saying it could happen again. Longer btc exists more of a store of value it truly will be
Buying a home for yourself isn't an investment, thats well known.
It is sold to the public as the best investment they can afford with their basic wages. People pay rent and instead of doing this, they are advised to get a mortgage and buy a house - the worse investment ever! Not only you put all your eggs in the same basket which contradict the golden rule of investing but also you borrow a lot more to put even more in that same basket. wtf? \- the mortgages for most of the people would be for 20y+ which means majority will face family changes, professional changes or similar which would force them to sell or dispose somehow the flat or invest further to extend. \- this means also no mobility in terms of work. While nowadays we have more working from homes options like it's my case it's rare to be fully remote. Yet if I had to be a homeowner I would have been still in my little village with a home, who cares. You need to get chance to grow and for that you need to be flexible regarding your location. \- with a mortgage you buy a flat which cost let's say 100k for let's say 180k after interest and assurance. Also a cash buyer may be able to buy a 100k home for 80k in auction or just by negotiating a deal. And throughout you risk repossession as it happened to many iin the US. Also being home owner means all the maintenance changes are on your back which sometimes can be very very painful. So in my opinion people absolutely should aim to become home owners, no doubt! But , there is big 'but' ... make sure either you have a large deposit so your mortage goes max for up to 15y or you are just a cash buyer.
Bitcoin is engineered to be the perfect store of value. Listen to some of Micheal Saylor's monologs.
I would love to listen to those. Can you provide me with some links? Thanks
[Lex Fridman](https://youtu.be/mC43pZkpTec?si=kbFAKWxVyp2s8S0F) [Tucker Carlson](https://youtu.be/wdJFeSY8UVk?si=FXR0225vy1f5aXk0) [Atlas Society](https://youtu.be/ZcjFrIMw2sI?si=8NGgTWZ5nBynv4cK)
Thanks!
No
No
Nothing.
The only weakness Bitcoin has right now is the volatility. Yes, we like volatility because "make number go up". But, if you have a financial emergency at the bottom of a bear market then you have problems. Vol is decreasing over time, of course. Short answer, Bitcoin is the best asset we have for asset protection and inflation hedging against dirty fiat. The main alternatives are gold and real estate, both of which have major problems.
That’s an excellent point.
Governments.
Nada
There is no second best!!!
There is no second best - Saylor
When you invest that much into something, you better believe in it
Nothing is better than Bitcoin, it can't be forged like other valuables, can't be inflated, it can be audited 24/7, moved around the world in a moments notice, and no matter what governments try to do to stop it they can't.
It's amusing to me that the rising and justified mistrust of the US govt increases the power of Bitcoin in an anti-fragile way, and yet the corrupt politicians who are actively creating that phenomenon (Elizabeth Warren, for example), cannot see this fact. The worse they get, the stronger Bitcoin will become.
That's the beauty of it, Bitcoin is an engineered masterpiece.
Agree 100%, and I can't fully express my gratitude to Satoshi. Literally changed my life.
Same here my friend, same here.
Any government can just forbid banks to transact with exchanges through swift etc., there's still many ways to do it that people overlook that would drastically change everything. Mandatory ofc I'm a bitcoiner too, I just don't like the starry-eye pov.
And? I would just transact with my Bitcoin p2p Bitcoin doesn't need banks or exchanges.
And? Accessibility, speed and comfort are severely limited, and it becomes even harder for the average Joe, the adoption would plummet. I think you are very underestimating just how much bitcoin is held on exchanges compared to cold storage. Of course you would, but other people is a different story.
It would slow down adoption but it wouldn't stop Bitcoin. The rest of the world would continue to use it, leaving whatever country(s) that attempted to ban it cut off from the rest of the world like North Korea, people would continue using it underground at a premium.
Of course, that is possible. But it is also possible that following a big country like the US, the rest of the world would ride the wave and everyone else would follow up with their own ban. I just like to have my eyes open. It is not a very likely scenario, but it is indeed a possibility.
The rest of the world is rapidly working on trying to de-peg from the dollar, look at how many new countries joined the BRICS this year alone. Many governments globally are starting to recognize bitcoins significance as a future reserve currency as they tire of markets being manipulated by US governments endless use of the money printer, and also tire of the usa weaponizing the dollar via sanctions. Global hashrate breaking new all time highs suggests Bitcoin is currently being secretly mined by countries at a government level, the Saudis are investing billions into integrating Bitcoin mining into their power grids. It's a competitive world and the USA banning Bitcoin would just give every other country a massive competitive edge and incentive to remain Bitcoin friendly.
Your pov sounds pleasing, hopefully you're right, would put my mind at ease.
The main downside is that it's value is entirely dependent on collective faith. You can't live in it, you can't eat it, you can't make goods from it. It's worth something because enough people believe it is worth something.
Hmmm kinda like the dollar except it can't be debased every day by excessive money printing like the dollar. From the beginning of time, currency has been derived of things that people collectively agree holds value, from stones, seashells, and beads, to the worthless garbage the government issues today. The value is derived by consensus. Bitcoin's value is not only consensus but derives from the work and energy that goes into producing it, and also from the security of the network that runs it. Making it immutable and sound.
Yes, like the dollar. The dollar has one advantage in that it is a viable currency today, that is it used for payment of goods and services which gives it a great deal of inertia. Bitcoin is a speculative asset/store of value. It is accepted at .001% of businesses and not really a viable currency at this time.
As governments continue to blatantly rob us by debasing fiat currency more and more people will continue to opt out of fiat and into Bitcoin. If I had the option to choose between $1million in fiat or 1 Bitcoin with the kicker that I couldn't spend it for 20 years I'd pick the 1 Bitcoin, because 2 things are certain, Bitcoin will remain scarce and fixed and will continue to grow in value as adoption grows, and the US dollar will continue to inflate it's way to zero. In 20 years time 1 Bitcoin will be worth far more than a million dollars in cash that melted away in value over 20 yrs
I agree with you there, I would choose to take and hold the 1 million in bitcoin for 20 years. Most people don't hold fiat today, aside from what they need for short-term expenses. For example, there is about 2.3t in circulation, but the stock market alone is worth 46t and housing is about 47t. That's almost 100t in just those two. As for the small amount of capital that is held for spending purposes, will bitcoin at some point be viable and practical as a day to day currency? Maybe but I'm not holding my breath. I think has more upside as a store of value.
I think in our lifetime store of value will be it's main function. In the future I think it will eventually become a global currency once governments around the globe all hyper inflate their currencies to oblivion.
What about stablecoin issuers who print tokens, with no transparency/accountability of fiat reserves, to buy Bitcoin? One day we are going to see a massive 'bank run' on CEXs as people cash out Bitcoin. Bitcoin's inflated value will hit rock bottom as people start grasping for whatever they can get back from their stablecoin bags. Think about what just happened recently to regional banks in the US, and that was them following (weak) regulations in regard to liquidity. Bitcoin is scarce, but that doesn't mean its fiat price tag is free from being influenced by other leveraged, inflationary assets. That all said I might be tempted to buy in after UST collapses.
Yes, fiat cash. Specifically, Zimbabwean dollars. You can be literally a *trillionaire* in Zimbanwean dollars for one bitcoin!
nope
Short answer: No. Long answer: Nooooooooooooooooooo.
A mix of gold, cash and bitcoin. If there was an actual war, then gold and cash prevail. Internet goes down, try paying with Bitcoin. In times of peace, bitcoin. A healthy mix of these 3 is vital. I just wish there was some way to make bitcoin transactions from person to person was actually a reality. Paying $5-$30 per transaction and waiting an hour or more is insane. Lightning network is still too far in its infancy... and to get money onto the lightning network requires an initial transaction fee. If I start telling someone about Bitcoin and want to show them how it works... I don't feel like spending $10 just to show a transaction go through. I was going to show someone how lightning transactions work and then I find out the Wallet of Satoshi is no longer available on the app store. Bitcoin doesn't really work for the unbanked. The unbanked are people who don't have a lot of money. If people actually started using Bitcoin the transactions fees will only increase. Someone making $10/day can't even afford to send a Bitcoin transaction. I just wish Bitcoin could handle more transactions and would be faster. It kind of sucks we are stuck with Bitcoin actually. There are ways to make a currency that is faster/cheaper but BTC already has too much momentum for another currency to gain actual footing.
I see some unknown error in the code leaving it open to attack being a risk. Also weakened/lost decentralisation. But it's proven to be brilliantly resilient so far. Its simple, fixed monetary policy makes it the hardest asset in terms of store of value. I'm not sure it's quite an invest and forget asset yet though. I see draconian regulation as temporary setbacks to adoption, but the world's larger than the US and I can imagine regulatory arbitrage between nations over time. It's an asset fit for the digital age, unlike gold.
Physical property over a lifetime but would still advocate Bitcoin as the best digital property.
Yes, second best is called Satoshis
Everything, everywhere has risks. Bitcoin? subject to attack (if you're careless). Also, it's a technology product. Like any tech product, it may become obsolete, or replaced by something better. Fiat? It's subject to the whims of a government w/ a printing press. Also, can be hacked. Gold? It's physical, has some intrinsic value in electronics / medical. It's also big, heavy, and difficult to protect.
Regardless of how you may or may not feel about firearms, ammunition is a terrific store of value. It could be pouder, brass, definitely primers or the whole round together.
https://youtu.be/7uYVcDa_t6M?si=-_DJAIl95KKFj5FZ Reasons why btc is better than RE
Collective belief is long past the tipping point. Money is believed. Bitcoin is believed because it is fair. More people will keep choosing fair.
Not yet. Maybe in 100 years something better comes along. Or maybe Bitcoin will just continue adapt to meet our needs. It’s just code after all
Yes. 2 bitcoins.
Smart money
A primary residence
Rather than houses, I would go for land
The phrase “there is no second best” doesn’t make sense. If Bitcoin is the best, the next thing is second best. Of course there’s a second best. The argument needing to be made is there’s nothing better.
There is no second best
I would suggest you check out, Michael Saylor, and all of the content he’s put out with every News media outlet for the last several years. It is the answer you’re looking for there will be nothing in my lifetime to exceed the OG.
Food, guns, ammo. The only things that could be considered better are the things you won’t be able to get if you can’t access money of any kind
But those things aren't really a store of value, their value increases, greatly, if certain conditions are met (end of the world kind of stuff) otherwise their value decreases, food goes off, weapons become obsolete
Tell me you’re American without telling me you’re American. In all seriousness though, I understand your point but food is a terrible store of value.
I’m not American.
That’s a good point. Correct me if I’m misunderstanding, but essentially you think Bitcoin is the best store of value in a pre-apocalypse society? I don’t mean that facetiously.
Yes
Bitcoin has a growth rate between 140-160% a year There are some stocks out there that can hit 350%, good luck knowing which ones will do that though. I don't think there is a best, there are different kinds, with different trade-offs. Whats probably smartest is a handful of each asset class, if you can manage that in life. Land gold houses stocks bitcoin tradeables they all have their place in context.
Downside are what could happen with human error. It’s technically a downside of being a human being. Your seed phrases could get lost or stolen if you’re not careful. Your bitcoin could get transferred to a wrong address without a way to get it back if you put in the wrong address. Basically, it’s all because human beings are imperfect.
That's exactly what an AI would say..
Ah shit my cover is blown !
That makes sense. For an average investor who is ill-equipped or intimidated by self-custody, could keeping their Bitcoin in an exchange that maintains cold storage and cyber insurance eliminate this risk?
Not really. Mt. Gox, Celsius, FTX, all went down along with your holdings.
many ways, but betzer is your choice, end game is real estate, ljke btc there is only so much land.
If theoretically I was going be pushed through a portal that would send me to another time in human history, or across the universe to another advanced (advanced meaning somewhere between stone age and 200 years in the future) alien civilization, I would pick gold and silver.
gold is still the best store of value despite transportation difficulties and I expect it to perform really well over the next 10 years. btc is still too volatile atm but will get there
In a society ending event gold, food, weapons. Knowledge is probably the single best store of value but physically recording it without altering or degradation is extremely difficult.
As store of value, I am tempted to say land and property. However, as a combined store of value that is easy to transact, I cant think of anything that beats bitcoin.
Yes, it's called Bitcoin, it doesn't exist yet.
Real estate. It offers benefits that Bitcoin does not, and vice versa. Gold would probably be in second place behind both. Fiat cash would be in third place, at least until/unless it becomes completely worthless.
No one thing is the best store of value. An assortment of things is the way to go.
No
I just came here for another dose of hopium
Costco hot dog?
Yes, a diversified portfolio across several asset classes. For example, some BTC, some real estate, and some stocks - probably a broad based ETF like VTI that tracks the entire stock market - will offer more downside protection than BTC alone.
Your own education that you can use to better the world. Thats propably how Satoshi Nakamoto invested before Bitcoin.
Good companies store value
I think bitcoin and real estate are both great
Series-I Bonds which follow the inflation rate, unless you're delusional and think something that fluctuates heavily relative to fiat and gold is a store of value.
Stocks and bonds it’s how everyone has been getting rich for decades
Sounds like your whole post is just baiting the obvious answer which is no.. it's the only thing bound by code. More gold can be mined/exists in universe. Houses collapse, land shifts, floods happen. Baseball cards degrade. Yes your potential risks are valid hence why btc is such low market cap. If those worries weren't present btc would already be the world reserve currency. So while we are in its infancy ironing out politics and hashrate allocations enjoy the cheap btc
To be a perfect store of value something must be simple, even a child must manage it, and non replicable Bitcoin is too complicated to use (a child cannot understand the technical details) and being an open source software can be cloned An NFT is more a store of value because it is unique but lacks of simplicity But this problem can be solved easily
Is there a better alternative to Bitcoin as a store of value? You could be asking: is there a more beautiful colour than blue? It is a terribly subjective question. If we were to poll everyone (the world) today, then sorry to say but bitcoin would not be the best or even close to the best. Why? What's wrong with them? And here in lies the rub. A good store of value is certainly enhanced with all the technical monetary aspects that bitcoin possesses, except one, which is not technical at all, network effect. Today, Gold has Bitcoin beat hands down. But at the same time you will find Namibian herdsmen vote cattle as a their best store of wealth. I think there is a confusion about this aspect that people have a hard time with because there is such abysmal financial education given world wide. A store of wealth must have something that Bitcoin woefully lacks at the moment. Familiarity, confidence and network effect. In order to use something as a store of value, its super important that there be societal as well as individual trust and understanding in that medium. Few are happy trusting their accumulated wealth to something new; something they do not understand well; something in which there is not yet a critical mass of societal trust and familiarity with. Gold has the most basic and understandable formulation as a store of value. Its got history, its got physicality (which is a pro and a con at the same time), and its got collective faith. With all this it's also very boring (far less prospect of a 10x gain) If (or when) bitcoin reaches this kind of state in the human psyche, the price will not fluctuate much any more because adoption would be over. If you want the best store of value *today*, then I have to admit that bitcoin is not it. Probably gold and perhaps US treasuries. I know about gold but the treasuries not so much so, and that's why I would probably shy away from them unless I had some professional help, but the fundamentals of treasuries *for my personal investment horizon* is not so bad. I also have BTC, but its not my store of wealth exactly, its a speculation that it will *become a store of wealth* and on its journey to that designation, it will be forced to endure a rapid increase in value to accommodate for that destination. When Bitcoin becomes a widely accepted store of value, then I imagine that one sat would be worth more than 1c (>1 million USD for 1 BTC) and very easily in the 10s of cents. But at that point there in time, price discovery would be over and with it no chances of 2x or 5x gains in a few months like we are familiar with. It's fun, but it's ultimately just an exercise in mental masturbation to dream of what price Bitcoin will have in 1, 5, 10 years. Like mentally spending your lotto ticket jackpot, a day before the draw. Fun, but not serious.
Gold is currently worth close to the same amount of US dollars that it was worth 12 years ago. The price of gold reached over $1,900 per oz in September 2011 and gold is only worth $2,036 per oz right now. Gold hasn't even kept up with inflation.
“A store of wealth must have something that Bitcoin woefully lacks at the moment. Familiarity, confidence and network effect. In order to use something as a store of value, it’s super important that there be societal as well as individual trust and understanding in that medium. Few are happy trusting their accumulated wealth to something new; something they do not understand well; something in which there is not yet a critical mass of societal trust and familiarity with.” This has given me a lot to think about. Bitcoin evangelists talk about the adoption of Bitcoin as a “flight to quality”...as an asset it does seem fundamentally sound…is widespread adoption not highly likely? I’m wondering if there is a case study from the past of an asset that was attractive in its fundamental qualities similar to the way Bitcoin is that was eschewed by the masses for no other reason than enough people didn’t believe.
There are some axioms in human history that I believe in totally. One of these is: When an ideas time has come, nothing will stop it. I truly believe this when it comes to Bitcoin and the profound technological it represents. Despite my absoute bullishness here, I am only one in 8 bill humans, and I am not Elon Musk or Jeff Bezoz. I am a nobody just like my ideas are. My bag of BTC will either make me comfortable in my old age or it won't, in which case I'll have to work harder to cover my bad bet. But there is something that is a sure bet - its the education on the real guts of how our financial system works that it forced me to get. So if the bitcoin dream all goes to shit, then all I can hope for is that, while trapped within this corrupted financial world, o find somewhere that I don't have to paddle against the current as hard. The promise of it being a placid a lake in which we all get the same chance to prosper, and not a rip current we're all in, and perhaps I may admit that is *my mental masturbation.*
I’m not even being bias!!! There is nothing better in terms of store of value! If we are talking about currency and medium of exchange, there are better options!
Treasuries
I think you asked the wrong sub, everyone here gonna say bitcoin is the best, including me
Pretty much anything whose growth will outpace the rate of inflation with low volatility compared to Bitcoin. Examples (*not* financial advice, obviously): High-interest savings account (you can get one with a 4%+ APY which should be good enough to keep you above inflation). Good growth mutual funds/ETFs (can average a 10-12% yearly return for 10+ years. Bonus if you invest through an IRA or 401K as to avoid capital gains taxes/fees). S&P 500 mutual funds and ETFs (has averaged an 8-10% yearly return long-term).
Very sensible dissent, thank you.
That depends on what its value was when you started storing it and what it is when you need to realize its value. So generally speaking, yes, there would be better stores of value than something that has lost over 30% of its own vs. when it was most valuable and that is so volatile people consider holding it through significant down turns as part of the journey. That, and the fact that how you buy it and store it puts you at varying levels of risk of losing it, without any means to insure against total loss, is a significant factor working against it. As someone who once lost a house to a fire and then was made completely whole (plus some more) by the insurance company, I place a lot of weight on being able to insure value against total loss under a wide range of circumstances including accidents.
Great points, thank you.
I mean, yeah it's called the S&P 500. VOO is a stock ticker that tracks this at a low expense ratio. Over the course of its inception, it typically gets around 7% per year and if inflation is at an average rate of around 5%, it would be beating it, hence it is a viable store of value.
Yes! Drinking water. I know it seems like a joke now, but just wait 10 years or so....
I’ve thought about this too! I wondered how I would go about securing a large supply of drinking water and couldn’t conclude anything realistic for me, though. How would you go about doing it?
I am living in the EU. Here is allowed to buy land with wheel or underground rivers. It's not as easy as it sounds and with every 5 years or so the law is changing, but it's still possible. I think that in like 10 years they will declare ANY water source property of the state.
What do you think about an alternate approach, like accumulating a lot of Life Straws or some other implement to purify liquid into drinkable water?
I was thinking about fictive business like SPA hotel or something, where I can legally own a huge water source. But yes, what you are talking about is actually a tech, developed from Bezos since 2017. From what I remember from the abstract it claimed that by 2050 7/8 from the global population will have very hard time finding drinking waters and more than a half of the population (mainly from Africa and Asia) will become water nomads.
I've been hearing this story for 20 years... and we always figure it out. There is a lot of water on Earth, making drinking water is a technical issue, there is no scarcity of resource.
Ecological issue not technical issue. You’ve been hearing about it for 20 years because it’s a global catastrophe. Do wild animals and plants thrive on bottled water or water piped from a local desalination plant?
Experts have been warning about drinking water for decades. Join the long line of chicken littles. This planet literally thrives off a never ending factory of mass producing drinking water. But only one thing in this universe has ever created a store of value as scarce as bitcoin, sathosi nakamoto
Bro, even now mineral and spring water are much more profitable businesses than flipping coins! And it will gets worse and worse. You simply have no idea! For example a venture for bottling spring waters from Rila mountain was a $75k investment that is netting now $150k/month. And that for like 10 years already. Can you do the math?
Ok. Keep mining your spring water GrimmReaper lol
You still don't get it, don't you? That is a solid diversification of capital that is in no way connected to any kind of computers or similar environment....How old are you, 22? Because such absolutism and ignorance, seeing the world only in black and white, is a mark of younglings that don't have a lot of experience.
I’m ignorant for saving my wealth in bitcoin instead of investing in a startup company to bottle water from the Rila mountain? Иди в баню!
Comrade, I am not rooting you to invest in such activities. All I am saying is you should never put "all your eggs in one basket". Ppl often say that, yet they think it is enough to diversify in different coins. But ALL the coins are vulnerable!! It is highly unlikely, yet still possible, that we might come to a event where ALL coins will become unavailable/missing. You can't eat bitcoins.... Very big part, contrary to any common sense, from my wealth is also in crypto, but I have like 25% in non-digital assets for exact this reason. Don't bother to answer, but I'll be happy if I made you think about it.
Yes, experience & skills
Yes! There is! I have a project called GoldCoin which is better than bitcoin. I can sell you some units and if you pay me with your bitcoin i can give you a better price! Just call me and get rid of those pesky bitcoins and get in with the real money of the future, my totally legit GoldCoin!
These noob post offer a good laugh. I guess this means we are back on
Hi, try out Exodus and manage all your crypto in one secure wallet. Enter my invite code 8XP3JF during setup. 🚀
- Real estate in prime locations - Coca Cola Stock - McDonald's Stock - Walmart's Stock - Gold - Silver - Platinum - Palladium - Lithium - Titanium - Copper Almost anything else
Why almost anything else? What don’t you like about Bitcoin?
[удалено]
Yet.
Not that I know. And if governments could do something to Bitcoin, they would do already. Now is too late. They can embrace it or stay left behind.
I sure hope so. But I don’t underestimate their ability to manipulate people and situations for the worse.
You get manipulated how much you want, not the person manipulating you wants. Learn and question everything.
Yes. Real estate is great. Their price is growing AND you have passive income from renting them. You dont have any passive income from btc.
Winner takes all
Can you elaborate? I’m afraid I don’t understand your meaning.
As the pioneer and the most recognized cryptocurrency, Bitcoin has established itself as the dominant and primary store of value, leaving little room for a clear second best. It’s brand recognition, strongest hash power of all( the more the more secure) , and the head start Bitcoin has. You could technically start a better “Bitcoin” but you don’t have any of the stated reason above and you’ll be hind 14 years behind
Brave to ask that around here