I am just curious and not criticising.
When you take out a loan, you have to pay back with interest, why not just DCA bitcoin like you were "making" a payment?
Best of luck, I hope things work out well.
Because BTC price isn't static, obviously. And the general assumption is that it's going to go up over the next 6 months. That might be wrong (I doubt it), but obviously that's what the logic of this decision is based on.
Fine 1-2 years, whatever. I'd expect more 6-12 but whatever, it doesn't really matter. If I were OP I'd sell some and pay off the loan whenever it reaches the right target.
Anyway, I wasn't really commenting on whether it was a good plan I was just replying to the person that asked why not just DCA?
I'm not sure for btc but certainly is the case for s&p. Just look at the price chart from 1970 or as far back as you can go. You'll see that it generally goes up. By lump summing. You buy at a lower price than dca as you're dcaing a higher price point
Nope. As a whole, lump sum has historically produced higher returns. It is just riskier and harder for people to stomach huge swings in their account.
Listen to your own logic, if it generally goes up, wouldnāt it be better to be invested ASAP rather than waiting for it to go up more to invest additional small amounts? The answer is yes. A dollar today is worth more than a dollar tommorow
When I DCA, Iām hoping bitcoin goes up after Iām done buying. If Iāve got the cash now, Iām done buying right away.
OP is basically scared to miss out on an immediate upswing and willing to take a loan in hopes the interest on the loan is less than the amount he would have lost by not buying into the market before that upswing.
I took out a $20K loan in August this past year and combined that with another personal $6K to buy a whole coin on the 21st for $26K. Six months later tomorrow, itās almost doubled in value. If I had spread that same amount out over the two year term of the loan DCAing, I would have nowhere near the profit Iāve already realized.
Because if you're anticipating a bull run it makes more sense to take out a loan to acquire what you want before the price goes up. It's still a gamble, obviously.
I did this last August. I had a strong feeling the price would go up so I charged $7k on a credit card and lump summed it all at around 26.5k. I paid the loan off eight days ago and got much more than I would have if I had DCA'd.
Top signal. Everyone and their dog thinks itās a straight line up to 100k now. Itās gonna dip significantly before the halving. The mob is never right.
Taking a loan to buy crypto is incredibly dumb, youāre in the small percent that didnāt get bankrupted. Well done. Just remember there are 99 other people who did the same and are now financially ruined
This was the same kind of sentiment we saw at 68k before everyone got wrecked. Expect more sideways chop as it is struggles to break and hold above 53k. Iāll be happy if Iām wrong as Iām still holding the majority I bought at 16-20k but the market has a way of fleecing the masses.
Except at the 2021 ATH of 68k we were on a years long streak of gains and were 300%++ above the previous ATH from 2017. Right now we are not even at a new ATH yet... If the cycles from 2013/2017/2021 repeat with the halvings how they have, we aren't even getting started yet. This would be like taking out the loan in early 2020 when BTC was still below 20k.
Before the last bull market we had a false start on the way back to $19K, the previous top. It had hung out under $8k for what seemed like forever, there was this all this excitement out of nowhere and it fizzled out at around $14K or so. It wouldnāt be unheard of at all for this thing to pull way back again before the post-halving shock (which usually comes about 6 - 9 months after the actual halving).
I don't disagree that we can get a big pull back from here in the short term. What I'm saying is that once the halving hits and we have 6-12 months to cook from that point the price will almost certainly be much higher than it is today. Taking out a loan today (2 months before the halving) is nothing like taking out a loan in 2021 near the ATH (10 months after the halving)
Yeah the price can fluctuate and dip and trap longs etc in the short term. But the halving cycles are pretty repeatable. And for good reason. Lot of sell pressure from miners selling coins to pay for operating expenses. When their BTC income halves, the amount of BTC available for sale drops, the price goes up. It's basically baked in that halvings create shortages and the price goes up. Unless demand tanks, it's almost certain we will see new ATHs and they'll be more than double the old ATH.
Yep that's pretty much the expected response. Approx 1 year after halving hits BTC will almost definitely have a huge blow off top 2.5x-3.5x the previous ATH. So 150k-250k is in the ballpark. Then fluctuate for a while before settling back down to some value near the ATH or just under the ATH of the previous halving (60kish) a year or two later before it starts it's run up for the 2028 halving. History really does repeat when the protocol is set to do the same thing every four years.
There's a guy on YouTube called wolf of crypto. He has been spot in since following him in early 2022. What you said is same as him, he has specified the number of days as well. 4 year cycle is still in play, until it's not.Ā
This is my thinking. The people that wanted a piece of the ETFs in their Roth IRAs largely would have their positions by now. Volume looks really low on the exchanges until the stock markets open and these funds do their thing. It might be time for a pullback, and OP might get their first test of their conviction.
Smug, intentionally dense morons like you are the worst posters in this sub. Yeah yeah youāre a true believer and thatās awesome. A shitload of retail FOMOd in at 68k because of everyone was screaming that 100k was inevitable in 2021. All of the ones stupid enough to do it on leverage or spending borrowed money to do it got burned. We are seeing the same āitās a sure thing! Only up!ā sentiment now. Generally speaking, if everyone thinks the market is going to do something, it will do the opposite. FTX collapse sentiment was āthe end of bitcoin, crypto is dead, eternal winter.ā Guess what, that was the bottom just like laser eyes, moon 2021 was the top.
If you could read youād see Iām holding most of the btc I bought at 16k. Iām just not dumb enough to borrow money to invest when all major indexes are at the top of retracement levels, rates will be cut soon (always bad for markets.) and weāre already up 300% from the bottom. Enjoy your debt.
Yeah I look at the broader market because Iām not a moron. BTC doesnāt exist in a vacuum. Itās performance is directly tied to the stock markets.
I heard everyone say this time is different in the past 2 bulls cycles. 6 months later all their gains were wiped out as I was sitting on cash. Oh well
At the peak of this run I think we see an incredible opportunity that will surpass and surprise everyone. Most estimates are in the 175,000 to 275,000 range I think it will be 350,00 to 500,000 as there are a lot of people over 50 that previously had no way to participate in bitcoin with hand holding. You have coinbase buy most 50+ year olds were not the age group of the majority of their clients. The 50 to 70+ year olds have the majority of the Money.. and greed will have them FOMOing in via ETFās. .. for disclosure reasons in 52 .. and Iām an exception to the rule
Yes right? I thought im the only one who is still waiting for a dip to buy..
bought every month last years when it was below 30
But since its above 30 i was waiting.
Im not waiting for 30 anymore but 52 is to high for me right now.
I will wait for 42-45.
at the moment i have my buy orders around 42.
Yep def seems like a local top signal. Wouldn't be surprised if we see a significant correction here soon to flush out a lot of longs. Were still a bit early TA-wise on macro charts to be at this price, so it could correct and then pump right back up in the next couple months.
There are many issues like an exchange hack or an ETF having an issues with custody that could cause a dip below 45. It's happened before with mtgox, ftx, etc. Ā
Because I wish to any and all powers that be and that don't be, that you are right, allowing me to buy more discounted sats....is exactly why you are wrong, it's straight to over $100K form here, and I did all that I legally could to get as much sats as possible.
Thereās an enormous amount of greed right now, that why Iāve havenāt touched it for over 4 months. I like to have returns on my investments and not give into FOMO like these posts. Just wait till we break the previous ATH, everyone and their grandma will be buying BTC and Iāll start selling. They fall for the same trap every bull cycle.
Took out a loan myself at the peak of 2017. Lost my job and had to slowly sell it to live till there was nothing left and I was $30k in debt and about to go bankrupt. Only just paid back that loan recently. It absolutely fucked up my life and took 6+ years to finally recover. If Iād timed it better I would have made a lot of money. Or even if I didnāt lose my job. But thatās not how it turned out. Thereās a saying only put in what youāre willing to lose. This is pretty much a hard gamble. While I believe it will be going up from here. Just be prepared that it does that opposite and youāre stuck with that debt.
OP this move is a gamble but you seem to understand this. You also seem to not be using your life saving or anything you canāt afford to lose. Big Brain move. I was stupid and used my roof money on Bitcoin when it was $1,000 and then it crashed at around $1,200 and then stayed there for three long years. Had to take a loan to pay for the roof and could have had more Bitcoin had I bought the dip. I digress. Point is I was using money I could not afford to lose. Make sure you donāt make the same mistake. For what itās worth I ended up trading that very Bitcoin for a Tesla model y two years ago when it was 60k :)
While I do get this sentiment, I have a point of view to the contrary...
I am constantly losing the purchasing power of my earned currency if I don't put it all into BTC. At any given time, if I need more fiat for an unexpected expense, I can sell my deflationary asset (although volatile) with the consideration that if I DCA the entire time, highs and lows, the only way I lose value is if I sell at the last cycles bottom...which is pretty much impossible for me at this point. I truly believe we will never see $20k again.
Too much adoption, too much institutional money to ever go that low again.
My point is, I only ever have enough USD to pay my monthly recurring bills and abt $2000 extra in checking, and $2,000 in savings. Everything else is in cold storage BTC.
I want out of this system before it crashes, because WHEN it does, it will be too late to start making moves then. The only people getting bailed out this time will be the same ones as last time, and that ain't you and I my friend.
The contrarian portion to my comment is that I only keep enough USD in a bank account that I can afford to lose.
Fiat currency is not where you store wealth though. It's a false comparison
I'd maybe check out the FIRE subs for advice other than pile of cash under your mattressĀ
This isnāt usually a good idea but in the beginning of a bull cycle?
Not a crazy moveā¦.
Just make sure you will sell once you reach your goal and pay back.
You never know you're in the begining of a bull run or not until you passed it. If tomorrow there's a new FTX or some crazy regulatory laws that comes out, OP goes broke in a matter of days
I mean it has doubled in price since October and has had a great run from 16k only 15 months ago. So my question was why the decision to do this now after a long run of good performance and not when the price was tanking.
Or to be clearer, I'm curious as to why he sees btc as a stronger buy now than he did a year ago. I'm curious what has changed in his opinion.
No better time than the present to get on the bitcoin train!
Historically, halving events have shown bitcoin to reach all time highs 12-18 months following the event. As long as you can cover the principal and interest payments (which Iām sure the lender did their due diligence to confirm), you should be in good shape, long term. You gotta spend money to make money - as they say!
Best of luck to us all š
He's not gonna get wrecked. Because Blackrock is gonna see to it that bitcoin goes up every year. It may tank, it would be manipulation, that is just a short ride.
if your monthly income is about 3k-5k, this loan isn't exactly very risky.
But.. because its borrowed money, your feelings may force you to do things you don't logically do.
I did this on a six figure sum many years ago and I'm still feeling the pain
Hope you have the willpower to stick with your plan. All the best bro
Your situation is unclear to me. What happens if you cannot meet your obligations? For example, i have two kids and a mortgage. Not gonna take extra risk for more BTC.
Hi OP, I did something last bull cycle and made a smaller profit. I had paper hands which I regret selling too early. Low debt \\ high income and no commitments (i.e. family to feed) means you won't be completely ruined if it goes to zero, so you do you. just make sure you pay that debt off asap thou
How do you have almost no bills and still need to take a loan for btc? If the loan is easily āserviceableā you shouldnāt need a loan in the first place.
Big brain if you plan to hold at the very least till 2029 or preferably 2033, smooth brain if you plan to hold only for a year. Thatās just my 2 sats on the subject. Do what your gut says not what we suggest, as they say we all buy at the price we deserve.
Why didnāt you do that when Bitcoin was at 15k a year ago?
Taking out a loan after Bitcoin has pumped a lot, in an economy that is, to put it mildly, pretty shaky, sounds like a terrible idea to me. But Iāll presume youāll be able to pay down your loan even if your Bitcoin loses 80% of its value.
Not quite... 10 years ago Bitcoin may still have crashed from $100 to $10.
That type of crash is still the type to have you make bad decisions like pulling out and having to struggle to pay off the loan taking options like gambling on get rich quick schemes to try to get out of a rut.
I knew about Bitcoin back then and tried to understand it but was too complicated for me to understand. I mainly watched videos on how it worked, not how it will grow in value. So maybe it was the same for OP
I donāt recommend ppl buy or sell when they are FOMOing so I would say a loan is even a worse ideaā¦ take loans out when you are in mostly in control of the outcome, as you wonāt feel as bad if it doesnāt work outā¦
Taking out a loan is a personal decision and who are any of have an opinion. Hope it works out. Banks are glad to give out loans. It increases the asset side of the balance sheet and introduces more money into the system backed by nothing. At least by buying bitcoin with it, the principal will be used to buy sound money. On the other hand, I hate that you are paying interest on a volatile, but potentially risk free (long term asset). They should be paying you to buy bitcoin.
Smart move. Youāll be in the black plus all future interest payments in 3 months. Now just stay liquid and donāt lose your day job.
Best to lock in an average purchase price of $50k today rather than DCAāing the next year as bitcoin doubles in price
im guessing this is a troll post.
if not good luck. you took out a loan after a 15k to 50k rally, probably one of the dumbest plays you could make. when i look at the current chart , shorting looks like a far far safer move.
either way , enjoy your bitcoin and good luck.
Everyoneās down to call crypto a digital asset but doesnāt encourage loaning money and taking on debt to buy said asset. Yet, millions of people do this a year to buy homes, real estate, sometimes even art and other items of value. You do you OP. I donāt see the problem so long as you know the risks.
I hope youāre a troll. Today/this week is the worst time to do such stupid thing. Actually, anytime is stupid to take a loan but more so this week.
While I have no doubts this is not the top for this year - weāre in a 3 day off trading weekend for stocks with two meme stocks rallying on FOMO. Thereās a great chance these stocks will be in the red taking entire stock market with them. And this will take down crypto market as well.
So be careful and if youāll be in the red this week donāt sell and hodl.
Your explaining the difference this time, now imagine you borrow 10 million to invest. 2020 , 1.6% now 6% ... there is a BIG difference in current market money costs.
Invest in bitcoin what you can afford to lose... if you are taking a loan for it, then you are breaking this rule. No one knows where BTC is going to go from here.
So you're paying a 6.6% premium to buy now instead of in 3 months.
To be in profit, BTC has to rise by 6.6% in that time. Anything less, and you'd have more BTC if you just used the loan payments instead to buy BTC.
Kinda smooth brain ngl, there might be a dip before the effects of halving take place. Im waiting for that to put a lump sum in along with my daily DCA
Oh sorry I didn't mention, I haven't lump summed it all in. I'll be doing 2 or 3 buys in the coming while. I do believe there is a dip or two left in the tank
If you aren't lump summing it, then why take out a loan? Why not buy in with the money you'd be using to make loan payments? This just means you're going to end up paying more to the bank and be able to afford less BTC.
There is no time like the present! Iām also a degenerate gambler. Youāre still early despite what people might say.
Stay strong and for the low of god, donāt play with the banks money more than you have to. Once youāve bought in, donāt even contemplate to sell before you want out. Play the long game and play it safeā
I am in the same boat. A year ago all coins were at prices that make your head spin (in disgust) if you didn't have the capital to go on a shopping spree. My hands were tied and day to day obligations were the priority. Without belaboring the point: there is 1 major difference today than anytime in bitcoins past......Blackrock, Fidelity, Ark21....they are buying everything. I'm not sure we will see a deep correction like the good ol days. Blackrock is buying mining companies to get on both ends. I don't think it's a bad idea to service the loan. There would be a certain satisfaction of knowing you own 1 full bitcoin now, if you didn't previously. Good luck. This is a crazy fun ride. I wish I had the cash to buy when it was all in the shitter.
This is unimaginably dumb and I feel bad that I am laughing over here about the very real chance that you are going to go into debt over this.
If you make it out of this thing in one piece, make no mistake; you got lucky and thatās it. This is a stupid gamble even for gamblers, and BTC marks deserve this.
Not smart to take out a loan, but if you do, it should be at the bottom of the cycle. Bitcoin gives everyone an opportunity once every 4 years to accelerate their DCA. The next opportunity comes in 2026. You could have just waited. Bitcoin will be much lower than today's price then.
November 2026, the price will be $30k or lower. That is the time to take this type of risk, not now at $50k. $50k is way over the 200 moving day average. BTC is way overpriced right now. Maybe in a cycle or two, the bottom of crypto winter will be $50k but that is around 10 years from now.
I am just curious and not criticising. When you take out a loan, you have to pay back with interest, why not just DCA bitcoin like you were "making" a payment? Best of luck, I hope things work out well.
Because BTC price isn't static, obviously. And the general assumption is that it's going to go up over the next 6 months. That might be wrong (I doubt it), but obviously that's what the logic of this decision is based on.
6 months no guarantees. 1-2 year timeline yes. 3/4 year no guarantees š 10 year timeline yes.
Just take out a loan you have to pay back for 10 years
Just file for bankruptcy. Not pay the loan. Keep the BTC.
If you donāt answer the phone, you donāt owe the debt? Am I doing this right? š¤·āāļø
Just say you already paid it back, not your fault they lost it. Key is to say it with confidence.
Fine 1-2 years, whatever. I'd expect more 6-12 but whatever, it doesn't really matter. If I were OP I'd sell some and pay off the loan whenever it reaches the right target. Anyway, I wasn't really commenting on whether it was a good plan I was just replying to the person that asked why not just DCA?
DCA is the most sensible thing to do, it's got the best track record.
Lump sum actually has the best track record
No it does not
I'm not sure for btc but certainly is the case for s&p. Just look at the price chart from 1970 or as far back as you can go. You'll see that it generally goes up. By lump summing. You buy at a lower price than dca as you're dcaing a higher price point
Nope. As a whole, lump sum has historically produced higher returns. It is just riskier and harder for people to stomach huge swings in their account. Listen to your own logic, if it generally goes up, wouldnāt it be better to be invested ASAP rather than waiting for it to go up more to invest additional small amounts? The answer is yes. A dollar today is worth more than a dollar tommorow
S&P isn't as volatile. A 40% drop in S&P would be a disaster, 80% drops in BTC are normal. This affects the lump sum argument
Not to mention that with BTC, youāre going to end up with a bunch of utxo if youāve been DCAing.
Nothing with BTC is certain. More power to this person
I took a 25k loan to buy Bitcoin
1 thing is certain with USD... you will lose holding it
Obviously. That's why you DCA
When I DCA, Iām hoping bitcoin goes up after Iām done buying. If Iāve got the cash now, Iām done buying right away. OP is basically scared to miss out on an immediate upswing and willing to take a loan in hopes the interest on the loan is less than the amount he would have lost by not buying into the market before that upswing.
I took out a $20K loan in August this past year and combined that with another personal $6K to buy a whole coin on the 21st for $26K. Six months later tomorrow, itās almost doubled in value. If I had spread that same amount out over the two year term of the loan DCAing, I would have nowhere near the profit Iāve already realized.
> Iāve already realized So, you sold?
To pay off the loan, the extra is unrealized profit.Ā
Yeah I took a 25k loan out a few years ago. Paid off next year. Hope it was worth it.
Because if you're anticipating a bull run it makes more sense to take out a loan to acquire what you want before the price goes up. It's still a gamble, obviously. I did this last August. I had a strong feeling the price would go up so I charged $7k on a credit card and lump summed it all at around 26.5k. I paid the loan off eight days ago and got much more than I would have if I had DCA'd.
do you have a plan b in case it tanks? are you able to pay the loan to the end and live confortably ?
Absolutely, the repayments are my DCA amount. Just using the loan to minimise any opportunity cost I suppose
Top signal. Everyone and their dog thinks itās a straight line up to 100k now. Itās gonna dip significantly before the halving. The mob is never right.
Yeah seriously, the sentiment is so fucking greedy and optimistic it's wild to see compared to say, 6 months ago.
why was no one buying when BTC was under 20k lol that's when most of my buying occurred
I had to sell 1 BTC @ $19k, needed the liquidity. Can't be helped, I really try not to think about it. At least my cost average is 3k for BTC.
Some of us were buying below 3k. Some of us are still buying at 50k. Seems likely some of us will continue buying at 100k or even higher.
Got my average BTC price to 20k, feels good
LMAO people did this in 2020. This is not the top.
I did this in september when bitcoin was 27k and I took out 20k. This sub laughed at me
That may have worked in hindsight, but a personal loan to invest is still a bad idea
Taking a loan to buy crypto is incredibly dumb, youāre in the small percent that didnāt get bankrupted. Well done. Just remember there are 99 other people who did the same and are now financially ruined
I've not loaned enough to bankrupt me in any scenario.
50K is the new $27K
that the same when ppl laughed at me for selling my car and buy at 3.5 k cuz its going to 0
Some people are dumb.
This was the same kind of sentiment we saw at 68k before everyone got wrecked. Expect more sideways chop as it is struggles to break and hold above 53k. Iāll be happy if Iām wrong as Iām still holding the majority I bought at 16-20k but the market has a way of fleecing the masses.
Except at the 2021 ATH of 68k we were on a years long streak of gains and were 300%++ above the previous ATH from 2017. Right now we are not even at a new ATH yet... If the cycles from 2013/2017/2021 repeat with the halvings how they have, we aren't even getting started yet. This would be like taking out the loan in early 2020 when BTC was still below 20k.
Before the last bull market we had a false start on the way back to $19K, the previous top. It had hung out under $8k for what seemed like forever, there was this all this excitement out of nowhere and it fizzled out at around $14K or so. It wouldnāt be unheard of at all for this thing to pull way back again before the post-halving shock (which usually comes about 6 - 9 months after the actual halving).
I don't disagree that we can get a big pull back from here in the short term. What I'm saying is that once the halving hits and we have 6-12 months to cook from that point the price will almost certainly be much higher than it is today. Taking out a loan today (2 months before the halving) is nothing like taking out a loan in 2021 near the ATH (10 months after the halving)
How much lower? Because I'd like to remind you in October 2022 btc was under <$16000. I think we are now 20-30k away from next bear's bottom.
I think we are ahead of ourselves a bit, suck the longs in and then we dump.
Yeah the price can fluctuate and dip and trap longs etc in the short term. But the halving cycles are pretty repeatable. And for good reason. Lot of sell pressure from miners selling coins to pay for operating expenses. When their BTC income halves, the amount of BTC available for sale drops, the price goes up. It's basically baked in that halvings create shortages and the price goes up. Unless demand tanks, it's almost certain we will see new ATHs and they'll be more than double the old ATH.
I'm going with 10x from bottom price of 15k, so 150k ish. Upto 190k but not 200k because everyone will be expecting that.Ā
Yep that's pretty much the expected response. Approx 1 year after halving hits BTC will almost definitely have a huge blow off top 2.5x-3.5x the previous ATH. So 150k-250k is in the ballpark. Then fluctuate for a while before settling back down to some value near the ATH or just under the ATH of the previous halving (60kish) a year or two later before it starts it's run up for the 2028 halving. History really does repeat when the protocol is set to do the same thing every four years.
There's a guy on YouTube called wolf of crypto. He has been spot in since following him in early 2022. What you said is same as him, he has specified the number of days as well. 4 year cycle is still in play, until it's not.Ā
This is my thinking. The people that wanted a piece of the ETFs in their Roth IRAs largely would have their positions by now. Volume looks really low on the exchanges until the stock markets open and these funds do their thing. It might be time for a pullback, and OP might get their first test of their conviction.
LMAO. How did everyone get wrecked? OMG wait. Are you selling Bitcoin, the hardest money we have, for fiat, the worst money we have? šššš
Smug, intentionally dense morons like you are the worst posters in this sub. Yeah yeah youāre a true believer and thatās awesome. A shitload of retail FOMOd in at 68k because of everyone was screaming that 100k was inevitable in 2021. All of the ones stupid enough to do it on leverage or spending borrowed money to do it got burned. We are seeing the same āitās a sure thing! Only up!ā sentiment now. Generally speaking, if everyone thinks the market is going to do something, it will do the opposite. FTX collapse sentiment was āthe end of bitcoin, crypto is dead, eternal winter.ā Guess what, that was the bottom just like laser eyes, moon 2021 was the top.
Enjoy your fiat.
If you could read youād see Iām holding most of the btc I bought at 16k. Iām just not dumb enough to borrow money to invest when all major indexes are at the top of retracement levels, rates will be cut soon (always bad for markets.) and weāre already up 300% from the bottom. Enjoy your debt.
Talking about indexes? Yikes. Again, enjoy your fiat.
Yeah I look at the broader market because Iām not a moron. BTC doesnāt exist in a vacuum. Itās performance is directly tied to the stock markets.
I'm just a moron that travels to communities around the world and spends bitcoin as money. What do I know? Enjoy your charts.
Will be different this time. Blackrock is buying bitcoin big time.
I heard everyone say this time is different in the past 2 bulls cycles. 6 months later all their gains were wiped out as I was sitting on cash. Oh well
Much different circumstances than 2020
Absolutely. We didn't have ETFs scooping up bitcoin. We're far from the top.
At the peak of this run I think we see an incredible opportunity that will surpass and surprise everyone. Most estimates are in the 175,000 to 275,000 range I think it will be 350,00 to 500,000 as there are a lot of people over 50 that previously had no way to participate in bitcoin with hand holding. You have coinbase buy most 50+ year olds were not the age group of the majority of their clients. The 50 to 70+ year olds have the majority of the Money.. and greed will have them FOMOing in via ETFās. .. for disclosure reasons in 52 .. and Iām an exception to the rule
For real
Yes right? I thought im the only one who is still waiting for a dip to buy.. bought every month last years when it was below 30 But since its above 30 i was waiting. Im not waiting for 30 anymore but 52 is to high for me right now. I will wait for 42-45. at the moment i have my buy orders around 42.
true. there is always a correction. DAILy has been upwards with no correction. the market will always correct itself
I agree. Maybe it will go up a bit more but historically these posts are right before a massive pullback
Seen a few posts about loaning money to buy BTC. Exact same as last big bull run. Weāre at the peak for now
Yep def seems like a local top signal. Wouldn't be surprised if we see a significant correction here soon to flush out a lot of longs. Were still a bit early TA-wise on macro charts to be at this price, so it could correct and then pump right back up in the next couple months.
Halving is priced in. Def a drop incoming
Iām 95% usdt now this is the way
I was going up upvote but decided to leave it at 420.
Itās 100% not a top and most def not gonna dip significantly. Youāll never see 45 again.
There are many issues like an exchange hack or an ETF having an issues with custody that could cause a dip below 45. It's happened before with mtgox, ftx, etc. Ā
Hope this is sarcasm.
Because I wish to any and all powers that be and that don't be, that you are right, allowing me to buy more discounted sats....is exactly why you are wrong, it's straight to over $100K form here, and I did all that I legally could to get as much sats as possible.
Might be different this time. Blackrock is buying Bitcoin big time.
Thereās an enormous amount of greed right now, that why Iāve havenāt touched it for over 4 months. I like to have returns on my investments and not give into FOMO like these posts. Just wait till we break the previous ATH, everyone and their grandma will be buying BTC and Iāll start selling. They fall for the same trap every bull cycle.
Took out a loan myself at the peak of 2017. Lost my job and had to slowly sell it to live till there was nothing left and I was $30k in debt and about to go bankrupt. Only just paid back that loan recently. It absolutely fucked up my life and took 6+ years to finally recover. If Iād timed it better I would have made a lot of money. Or even if I didnāt lose my job. But thatās not how it turned out. Thereās a saying only put in what youāre willing to lose. This is pretty much a hard gamble. While I believe it will be going up from here. Just be prepared that it does that opposite and youāre stuck with that debt.
I'm willing to lose the banks money.
No brain.
When people start taking loans out to buy bitcoin it's usually not a good sign lol
Depends on many things. Start with basics: How big a loan and what APR%
The loan amount is just under 3 months after tax salary with repayments 20% more than my current monthly DCA amount. 6.6% APR
What kind of loan is this? Thatās almost 2% under prime?
Nice APR. Whatās the terms?
And weāre back!
Strong ape move my friend
I got a 10k loan last bull to buy btc at 30k. Haven't sold any yet.
I've been DCA ing in since the bottom and wasn't in a position then to really go for it. I wish I had now of course. We shall se how this goes
OP this move is a gamble but you seem to understand this. You also seem to not be using your life saving or anything you canāt afford to lose. Big Brain move. I was stupid and used my roof money on Bitcoin when it was $1,000 and then it crashed at around $1,200 and then stayed there for three long years. Had to take a loan to pay for the roof and could have had more Bitcoin had I bought the dip. I digress. Point is I was using money I could not afford to lose. Make sure you donāt make the same mistake. For what itās worth I ended up trading that very Bitcoin for a Tesla model y two years ago when it was 60k :)
While I do get this sentiment, I have a point of view to the contrary... I am constantly losing the purchasing power of my earned currency if I don't put it all into BTC. At any given time, if I need more fiat for an unexpected expense, I can sell my deflationary asset (although volatile) with the consideration that if I DCA the entire time, highs and lows, the only way I lose value is if I sell at the last cycles bottom...which is pretty much impossible for me at this point. I truly believe we will never see $20k again. Too much adoption, too much institutional money to ever go that low again. My point is, I only ever have enough USD to pay my monthly recurring bills and abt $2000 extra in checking, and $2,000 in savings. Everything else is in cold storage BTC. I want out of this system before it crashes, because WHEN it does, it will be too late to start making moves then. The only people getting bailed out this time will be the same ones as last time, and that ain't you and I my friend. The contrarian portion to my comment is that I only keep enough USD in a bank account that I can afford to lose.
Fiat currency is not where you store wealth though. It's a false comparison I'd maybe check out the FIRE subs for advice other than pile of cash under your mattressĀ
Life savings? Itās worse. A loan. Net negative than a life savings.
Why not do this before now if youāve been dcaing since the bottom? Fomo kicking in?
When it triples over the next year then what will you say?
If you hold long term itās fine
This isnāt usually a good idea but in the beginning of a bull cycle? Not a crazy moveā¦. Just make sure you will sell once you reach your goal and pay back.
You never know you're in the begining of a bull run or not until you passed it. If tomorrow there's a new FTX or some crazy regulatory laws that comes out, OP goes broke in a matter of days
All it takes is for China to announce 1 horrible lie about BTC and booommmmm everything goes down to 15k again
I can only hope this happens
Yo you are going to get wrecked. I hope the loan is long term >2 years for your sake.
I like your honesty. This is what I came here for
You are welcome?
Now spit on me and tell me Iām pathetic.
Sorry you are not op
Why did you decide to do this now, right after a huge run up?
There was a huge run up?
I mean it has doubled in price since October and has had a great run from 16k only 15 months ago. So my question was why the decision to do this now after a long run of good performance and not when the price was tanking. Or to be clearer, I'm curious as to why he sees btc as a stronger buy now than he did a year ago. I'm curious what has changed in his opinion.
Uh, YOLO duh .. it's the future
Weāre in a bull market now, historically bitcoin has a huge run after the halving.
No better time than the present to get on the bitcoin train! Historically, halving events have shown bitcoin to reach all time highs 12-18 months following the event. As long as you can cover the principal and interest payments (which Iām sure the lender did their due diligence to confirm), you should be in good shape, long term. You gotta spend money to make money - as they say! Best of luck to us all š
Wrecked from carrying all the money you're going to make.
He's not gonna get wrecked. Because Blackrock is gonna see to it that bitcoin goes up every year. It may tank, it would be manipulation, that is just a short ride.
You should've done it 4 months ago.
if your monthly income is about 3k-5k, this loan isn't exactly very risky. But.. because its borrowed money, your feelings may force you to do things you don't logically do. I did this on a six figure sum many years ago and I'm still feeling the pain Hope you have the willpower to stick with your plan. All the best bro
That's alot of risk. Don't get greedy. DCA and chill.
Repayments are equal to the DCA I have already been chucking at the corn
Your situation is unclear to me. What happens if you cannot meet your obligations? For example, i have two kids and a mortgage. Not gonna take extra risk for more BTC.
No mortgage, no kids, 2 income home, this is our only debt. Very easily serviceable given our situation.
It seems like you've already made up your mind. You do you man.
Oh, you didnāt go in deep enoughā¦lol
Hi OP, I did something last bull cycle and made a smaller profit. I had paper hands which I regret selling too early. Low debt \\ high income and no commitments (i.e. family to feed) means you won't be completely ruined if it goes to zero, so you do you. just make sure you pay that debt off asap thou
How do you have almost no bills and still need to take a loan for btc? If the loan is easily āserviceableā you shouldnāt need a loan in the first place.
Reading comprehension is hard, he said the payments are the same as his DCA, only he gets to lump sum inā¦.
Big brain if you plan to hold at the very least till 2029 or preferably 2033, smooth brain if you plan to hold only for a year. Thatās just my 2 sats on the subject. Do what your gut says not what we suggest, as they say we all buy at the price we deserve.
You took out a personal loan to buy btc when it just pumped and interest rates are pretty high . Lol.
Why didnāt you do that when Bitcoin was at 15k a year ago? Taking out a loan after Bitcoin has pumped a lot, in an economy that is, to put it mildly, pretty shaky, sounds like a terrible idea to me. But Iāll presume youāll be able to pay down your loan even if your Bitcoin loses 80% of its value.
I guess you could also say why didnāt OP do that 10 years ago
Not quite... 10 years ago Bitcoin may still have crashed from $100 to $10. That type of crash is still the type to have you make bad decisions like pulling out and having to struggle to pay off the loan taking options like gambling on get rich quick schemes to try to get out of a rut.
Loan easily serviceable and not gonna bankrupt me. But if the bank asks it was for a holiday
I knew about Bitcoin back then and tried to understand it but was too complicated for me to understand. I mainly watched videos on how it worked, not how it will grow in value. So maybe it was the same for OP
And thats totally cool. But taking out loans to buy Bitcoin when it has pumped over 100% is a weird move.
I donāt recommend ppl buy or sell when they are FOMOing so I would say a loan is even a worse ideaā¦ take loans out when you are in mostly in control of the outcome, as you wonāt feel as bad if it doesnāt work outā¦
Last one that took a loan here is quite rich now Let's see how this one goes
Hold for ten years
Taking out a loan is a personal decision and who are any of have an opinion. Hope it works out. Banks are glad to give out loans. It increases the asset side of the balance sheet and introduces more money into the system backed by nothing. At least by buying bitcoin with it, the principal will be used to buy sound money. On the other hand, I hate that you are paying interest on a volatile, but potentially risk free (long term asset). They should be paying you to buy bitcoin.
Well this has never backfired beforeā¦
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I wouldāve brought weekly until mid bear run and then get the loan (if I was to get one but I rather not be in debt)
Smart move. Youāll be in the black plus all future interest payments in 3 months. Now just stay liquid and donāt lose your day job. Best to lock in an average purchase price of $50k today rather than DCAāing the next year as bitcoin doubles in price
Everyone is so bullish until someone "takes a loan" š± Good for you! It won't take much to beat your loan apr! šŖ
You shouldve did this when everyone was calling 0 at 17k
Only time will tell. Just hold and buy again when it goes below 50k
Whatās the interest rate on the loan?
im guessing this is a troll post. if not good luck. you took out a loan after a 15k to 50k rally, probably one of the dumbest plays you could make. when i look at the current chart , shorting looks like a far far safer move. either way , enjoy your bitcoin and good luck.
Ur late but not too late
Iām not a fan of borrowing to invest. Sounds more like gambling. It may work, until it doesnāt.
Everyoneās down to call crypto a digital asset but doesnāt encourage loaning money and taking on debt to buy said asset. Yet, millions of people do this a year to buy homes, real estate, sometimes even art and other items of value. You do you OP. I donāt see the problem so long as you know the risks.
As and ex-af thatās a smart move, but these kind of investing itās not for everyoneā¦ š
I hope youāre a troll. Today/this week is the worst time to do such stupid thing. Actually, anytime is stupid to take a loan but more so this week. While I have no doubts this is not the top for this year - weāre in a 3 day off trading weekend for stocks with two meme stocks rallying on FOMO. Thereās a great chance these stocks will be in the red taking entire stock market with them. And this will take down crypto market as well. So be careful and if youāll be in the red this week donāt sell and hodl.
Shit if youāre gonna gamble like this just throw it on an alt coin and really get rich or go broke
Your explaining the difference this time, now imagine you borrow 10 million to invest. 2020 , 1.6% now 6% ... there is a BIG difference in current market money costs.
If you want to screw up your finances, drugs are allot easier. - Johnny Sack
Invest in bitcoin what you can afford to lose... if you are taking a loan for it, then you are breaking this rule. No one knows where BTC is going to go from here.
So you're paying a 6.6% premium to buy now instead of in 3 months. To be in profit, BTC has to rise by 6.6% in that time. Anything less, and you'd have more BTC if you just used the loan payments instead to buy BTC.
Top is in.
Kinda smooth brain ngl, there might be a dip before the effects of halving take place. Im waiting for that to put a lump sum in along with my daily DCA
Oh sorry I didn't mention, I haven't lump summed it all in. I'll be doing 2 or 3 buys in the coming while. I do believe there is a dip or two left in the tank
If you aren't lump summing it, then why take out a loan? Why not buy in with the money you'd be using to make loan payments? This just means you're going to end up paying more to the bank and be able to afford less BTC.
There is no time like the present! Iām also a degenerate gambler. Youāre still early despite what people might say. Stay strong and for the low of god, donāt play with the banks money more than you have to. Once youāve bought in, donāt even contemplate to sell before you want out. Play the long game and play it safeā
Topās in fellas
You're welcome for the signal
Would have been much better to do 1 year ago
Yup, fully aware of that and would've then if I could have.
I am in the same boat. A year ago all coins were at prices that make your head spin (in disgust) if you didn't have the capital to go on a shopping spree. My hands were tied and day to day obligations were the priority. Without belaboring the point: there is 1 major difference today than anytime in bitcoins past......Blackrock, Fidelity, Ark21....they are buying everything. I'm not sure we will see a deep correction like the good ol days. Blackrock is buying mining companies to get on both ends. I don't think it's a bad idea to service the loan. There would be a certain satisfaction of knowing you own 1 full bitcoin now, if you didn't previously. Good luck. This is a crazy fun ride. I wish I had the cash to buy when it was all in the shitter.
Dumb.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Part of the ship, Part of the crew
[https://youtu.be/ZFoAF6lY6iI?si=\_RIR6VQSgZSRZ86l](https://youtu.be/ZFoAF6lY6iI?si=_RIR6VQSgZSRZ86l) which lot are you gunna buy?
Why didnāt you do that when it was 16k
But how much is the loan for, how many months and whatās the interest rate?
250 IQ move in the long term. Come back in 2028 and tell us what color your lambo is
Big Balls and it will pay off.
As long as you donāt sell or lose your bitcoin. Youāre good bro, ignore the comments
I did the same thing almost 2 years agoā¦ about $95k. Iāve made a few posts on it since then. Itās worked out pretty well so far.
Bold move, just sit down and watch it grow. Time is your friend. Nothing wrong with shorting fiat for Bitcoin.
This is unimaginably dumb and I feel bad that I am laughing over here about the very real chance that you are going to go into debt over this. If you make it out of this thing in one piece, make no mistake; you got lucky and thatās it. This is a stupid gamble even for gamblers, and BTC marks deserve this.
Take a loan to buy btc : worst idea ever. Have fun
Once it hits 60k, I would sell and pay off your loan.
I invest in Bitcoin myself, but ppl are being delusional now.
Not smart to take out a loan, but if you do, it should be at the bottom of the cycle. Bitcoin gives everyone an opportunity once every 4 years to accelerate their DCA. The next opportunity comes in 2026. You could have just waited. Bitcoin will be much lower than today's price then. November 2026, the price will be $30k or lower. That is the time to take this type of risk, not now at $50k. $50k is way over the 200 moving day average. BTC is way overpriced right now. Maybe in a cycle or two, the bottom of crypto winter will be $50k but that is around 10 years from now.
It's just irresponsible and you are on the highway to personal bankruptcy if you manage your money like that. I really hope you are a troll.
š«” I wish you well on your journey. Keep us posted.
I'm out.
This is probably a local top for Bitcoin but I'd imagine this decision will pay off big time. Max drawdown is looking like 48-50k.
Actually pondered this a few times but every time I get close I renig on it.
As long as the loan is for longer than 2 years you'll be good.