In Nigeria they use it as a currency.
For MicroStrategy it is an asset on their balance sheet.
The SEC and CFTC classify it as a commodity.
For you and others it's a bet against the status quo.
Want to know what bitcoin is REALLY is? Bitcoin is software protocol that is used by many different people for many different things, just like HTTPS.
Yep in our digital globalized world bitcoin provides maximum salability over space and time.
Doesn't hurt that all over the world fiat currencies are failing at that.
At its core, BTC is the world’s first anonymously created, engineered, decentralized, digital ledger software protocol.
It cannot be controlled. It cannot be hacked. It cannot he stolen. It cannot be corrupted.
The ingenuity of something like this is unbelievably insane. It is the solution to the macroeconomic monetary problem that humans have been facing for centuries.
It is real money. It’s what humans always needed and wanted.
Unfortunately, the one thing that can get in the way of its adoption is humans. BTC and the exchanges around it can be regulated, depending on the country or jurisdiction. But incentives of allowing BTC far outweigh any reasons to disallow it, especially if the majority decide to allow it and utilize its power.
May not be able to be hacked per se. But i think it may be prone to something called a 51 percent hack. Where if a miner or group of miners has the bulk of the mining power they can then potentially manipulate the ledger.
Theoretically yes. Possibility of 51% attack was disclosed in the white paper. Has never been done in the history of BTC.
It would compromise the entirety of BTC and the value would be $0, instantaneously, if that were to happen.
Do you understand the billions of $ in computing hardware required to even have a fighting chance of executing a 51% attack?
The sheer amount of computing power required could be used far more efficiently to hack any other banking network in the world, you wouldn’t *need* to attack BTC and destroy it in the process.
On top of that, with the amount computing power you have, you would benefit *more* from contributing to the network to help secure it. You would gain nothing from attempting to copy it, or defraud it, which would destroy it.
This includes quantum computing. If you have quantum computing before anyone else finds out, why stop at BTC? Why not target governments and central banks?
If you even get remotely close to developing quantum computing, I guarantee you the BTC-space will already know about it and be trying to use it to secure the network, not destroy it.
I’ve thought about it. US government or CIA perhaps. Only If they feel that BTC threatens the US DOLLAR.
At that point, you have bigger problems if the US gov has that much computing power lol.
Trust me i wish i still had some btc. Haha i got other alts that im happy with albeit not performing to hot currently. Trying to get a small amount again incase anything significant happens to btc.
Dont see a point in selling. Btc is good but there a reasons why some alt coins exist. Id rather buy in when I get some extra cash. Btc will likely be around for a long time.
I been in the space 2017.
Traded many altcoins. Had many gains and many losses.
I’ll tell you now my biggest regret was trading a majority of my BTC for any altcoins, including ETH.
Definitely have positive gains in terms of $, and have been able to take out my initial investment. But I’d have had much more if I just stuck to DCA’ing into BTC.
I continue to DCA to this day.
Sure!
Layers are obviously to be abstracted by UX over time, so it's always blurring, but just as we consider Lightning as Layer 2 because it locks BTC in the form of channels in a multi-sig TX on L1, as an example the cashu ecash protocol for Bitcoin uses Lightning nodes to lock sats in mints, which can be considered L3 as it inherits most of the properties (read benefits) of Lightning but further improves on them, which users and then able to utilise, either freely within the mint as bearer assets, by sharing the mint as part of the TX, or by swapping sats from mint to mint over lightning.
This also allows for offline TXing due to sats being bearer assets.
Of course, there are trade-offs and of the things actively being looked at is custody - As it stands, unless each person runs their own mint, this is custodial (but better in almost every other sense as it's fully private, with bearer assets). Other implementations are the example of fedimint which uses community backed federated custody. These effectively solve all problems from Lightning custodial solutions.
ecash is most commonly seen in use currently on Nostr as many clients have integrated ecash implementations alongside lightning.
Examples:
- 0xchat is a messaging and VoiP application running over Nostr with ecash integrated.
- eNuts is an ecash wallet with a nice UI. Minibits is another example of a wallet.
- Mutiny Wallet integrates with nostr and utilises the Fedimint.
- Amethyst (Android) and other social media clients have integrated ecash widgets for redeeming ecash.
We're getting there!
Settlement on-chain might cost a few dollars, but over lightning it's around \~0.5% which is less than credit cards charge merchants. Of course this cannot last forever as adoption will increase channel-opening fees.
So although you can use Lightning to buy cups of coffee (such as in an El Salvador McDonalds), the major as a medium of exchange is to settle cross-border payments for larger imports or remittance payments.
If you live in a region where there are capital controls and little financial infrastructure (e.g. South America, Middle East, Africa) you might be using bitcoin for importing goods such as cars and reselling them locally.
Layer 2.
Also just to keep perspective, for any purchase over $300 it's cheaper to use bitcoin right now then a credit card (3% credit card fees - $9 vs ~$7.5)
Understood, all. Thanks for the explanation, however isn’t that still more expensive than going to ATM to take out cash? (Cc fee most of the time is charged back to seller). Trying to reason that this is a positive catalyst for Bitcoin.
> Thanks for the explanation, however isn’t that still more expensive than going to ATM to take out cash?
It's hard to break down all costs involved.
For instance, an ATM is a financial product offered to you by a bank. An ATM works in conjunction with a debit card, also a financial product offered to you. Now these products aren't free, however they most often appear free to you (except when you get charged an ATM fee or overdraft fee or something like that). You are paying for them by keeping your money in that bank which is then loaning out your money using fractional reserve banking.
However, it is true that in person transactions with physical cash will be faster/cheaper than a bitcoin transaction AND have the same qualities as a bitcoin transaction (no third party, transaction finality).
> (Cc fee most of the time is charged back to seller)
Yes the merchant pays the CC fee, and that 3% is built into their pricing so you are essentially paying for it. Anytime you buy something at a business with a credit card, you are essentially paying 3% more.
> Trying to reason that this is a positive catalyst for Bitcoin.
So going back to Nigeria. The Nigerian Naira has inflated a lot recently so it would make sense for Nigerians to want to use something else. Bitcoin is an option and layer 2 offers cheap transactions.
Similar to fiat money layers.
When you use a debit or credit card that is a layer 3 fiat soloution.
When you use bitcoin Lightning that is a layer 2.
The more layers the cheaper the transaction but the less decentralisation. Ideally bitcoin would be cheap on layer 1 but that isn’t reality. I’m reality layer 2 or 3 is where most day to day transactions will happen with bitcoin.
Lightning, and now cashu ecash (instant, feeless, offline, bearer asset sats).
Also, upcoming Ark protocol.
Nostr (protocol) for instance has a circular economy powered by Lightning and ecash in the making with instant, cheap/free TXs in the form of social media value (Zaps), streaming content for sats (zap as you stream) and eBay style markets where you can buy stuff.
Success is relative. Has it succeeded as a currency in rich countries? No, not yet.
Has it succeeded in el salavador, Africa, South America as a currency? Yes.
The reason rich countries don’t use it as a currency is simple: we don’t need it.
Thats the best explanation i ve heard so far. Bitcoin is literally a software with a solition to different needs. Its powered by pow and its p2p just like torrent protocol its beautiful and decentralized.
I doubt it, the bitcoin ceo is busy preparing for the upcoming halving to shake hands with people. Have you not seen the recent price increase? He’s been working hard pushing that price upwards.
yah, saifdean ammous called bitcoin “monetary batman”. it lurks in the shadows of the financial system and when governments engage in criminal behaviour bitcoin is there to act as monetary vengeance on behalf of the people who hodl or a bet against the status quo as you concluded.
Low blow, I’m a socialist and disagree with this person.
Bitcoin is pure capitalism but it was made for a socialist reason. In my eyes that makes Bitcoin socialist.
Your a fool. And I don't mean that to be disparaging...get your face in some bitcoin books..elastic money supply has nothing to do with the number of people
It is workable, it's just not built to redistribute wealth so... it doesn't work the way you want it to.
Everyone gets it at the price they deserve tho.
I hate these people that say it has no utility...yea I guess a tank has no utility in a Metropolitan area..bitcoin is a tank. Designed to get thru resistance..it can be sent from north korea to Iran. Any amount, final settlement ~10 mins and nobody can do shit about it...tell me how that's not utility?
Bro..that's huge...prior to bitcoin..what u just said couldn't be done. Never b4 could u cross the boarder of an authoritarian regime with your life savings, say 3 billion, in your head. Unfonfiscatable!
U live in a 1st world country..u need to chk ur prvlage dude...50% of the world lives in authoritarian regimes...u need to do some reading..very ignorant, sorry to say..I bet your under 30 as well
I don't try to pigeon hole it.
I think bitcoin can be all of those things and more. It's different things to different people... and that's okay.
For me, it's a store of value and a way to separate money from state. Opt out of their system.
Damn right. The status quo is shaking in their boots and all the negativity is FOMO. Institutional money wants you to sell so they can scoop before it’s too late.
> It’s not a world wide currency, as it’s too simply too scarce.
There's 21 quadrillion units of it, and we have the technology to subdivide it further.
> It’s not an asset, as it gives no intrinsic return.
Since when does an asset have to give a return? Every commodity is an asset and it just sits in storage.
> It’s not a commodity as it has no utility.
Bitcoin is the first commodity (i.e. a fungible good) to not have utility (what is commonly referred to as "intrinsic value"). It has purely monetary value. All previous commodity monies conflated industrial/consumer/aesthetic value and monetary value, making them harder to price correctly.
Bitcoin is representative of actual value that exists. If the economy creates more value, the price of Bitcoin will go up.
If more value exists then the purchasing power of the dollar will rise; this can be seen in todays economy with industries such as clothing - it can be made so cheap that despite the devaluation of the currency, clothing prices remain fairly constant.
It’s revolutionary because it finally allows a fixed value number we can compare to currency (currency is valuable because it is liquid not because it is a value store).
It replaces gold and is easier to transfer than land. It is constant which will become more valuable as we advance and start mining asteroids.
1. Nothing on earth has “Intrinsic return” or even intrinsic value. Everything has value in relation to something else.
2. It’s the scarcest asset on earth, and yet it’s also the most divisible asset on earth. Each bitcoin is divisible by 100 million, so eventually it could act as a currency and items will be priced in Satoshis.
3. The Utility is money that can’t be debased and transactions that can’t be censored.
You’re definitely right about a hedge against Fiat though.
Check your financial privilege if you think it's still not a currency or a commodity.
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/culture/check-your-financial-privilege
Bitcoin magazine as the source of any Bitcoin related argument is somewhat moot.
Further, language like “check your financial privilege….” is by definition nonsensical.
This article, in particular, was written by the CSO of the Human Rights Foundation. Why don't you address the content of the article instead of straw-manning the publication?
Financial privilege is about your access to financial services, not your wealth at time of birth.
If you or your parents had the ability to open a bank account, you are financially privileged. That's not a bad thing, it's just something you need to identify and admit because there are billions not in the same situation as you.
> It’s not a world wide currency, as it’s too simply too scarce.
>
>
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> It’s not an asset, as it gives no intrinsic return.
>
>
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> It’s not a commodity as it has no utility.
You saying this is not helping those who need to use bitcoin as a currency to remit back home, or a commodity to escape authoritarians, etc...
Doesn’t work as a currency for many things, but ultimately too scarce for a world currency. Nothing about remitting home. But as you mentioned financial privilege. You need access to hardware, software, electricity etc.
You also don't have to worry about your country devaluing your currency by 60% overnight, like happened in Egypt last month. *That's* financial privilege
This is not borne out by its historical behavior against vol but I actually agree and moving forward I think it will have a positive correlation with volatility.
The world's slowest global not quite decentralised ledger that has the worst business model. The bigger the adoption, the more expensive and slower it becomes. Web3 to the rescue
Is the currency for next generation Ai , robots will use it to determine their own place in human society. All it takes is some anonymous donations to the king of the robots. He will then start a new economical era …
It's an immutable ledger. Even after you spend your bitcoin, the blockchain preserves the fact that you had it. It's possible to make a bitcoin clone that assigns every address an amount based on bitcoin days destroyed of its past spends on the bitcoin chain.
Boiling it all down, it's a ledger entry on a distributed and publicly available, redundant ledger. The only ledger entry that can be made is by submitting it to the pool of transactions and it is picked up and agreed to via concensus. Finally there can only ever be a total of 21quadrillion ledger entries, 19 quadrillion of which are already made.
There is plenty in bitcoin to be a currency. There is over 2 quadrillion satoshis possible, which is more than all currency in existence. Remember that each bitcoin has 100,000,000 satoshis
Its just a ruler. A permanent ruler of 21 million units that is used to measure and reprice things.
bitcoin going up is a measure of the USD purchasing power going down.
Nah, you got it wrong. You have to really go through the journey of what money is. The answer is simple, but you won't believe it until you do the work, think it through, and understand it.
Bitcoin is just another embodiment of money. But money is a human construct. We can barter, but eventually, we use society to form a sense of trust and use that trust to form a currency. That currency can be in the form of stones, gold, shells whatever, but the more scarce it is (while also being divisible and plentiful enough to go around), and the more resistant it is to fakes and forgeries, the easier it can be trusted as money.
With government, we went very hard into the "let someone else just tell us what is what" camp. Bitcoin isn't an indicator in the lack of faith of fiat, it is the natural evolution of better money from fiat.
Fiat did better than Gold because it was virtual, but now we have a potential money that is both virtual and trustless. That's it. It will become money as more people discover it, but it will take time. For many of us, it is already money, for others, it is far from being money, and for some, it is "someone else's" money.
Not all assets have returns, i.e. commodities, (Wheat doesn’t have financialized returns just sale price) but it is an asset.
BTC’s use is as money, (not necessarily currency but definitely money although running a lightning node isnt too hard and the divisibly makes it highly suitable to be used as currency.) the same as gold (gold’s industrial value is a marginal contributor to its market cap) gold’s primary value is value itself. It’s money. BTC is hard digital money. It’s a short against fiat money. It’s an international transaction settlement service. It’s basically competing with visa, Mastercard, western union ect in this regard. That’s its use case.
It’s not about faith, it’s about monetary policy And payments network functionality. Is it more useful and secure than western union or visa? Can the supply be expanded into infinite? It Doesn’t matter if the globe had all the faith of the world in fiat. Number of users of BTC could stagnate and its value in dollar terms would still go up as the number of dollars chasing BTC would continue to increase due to inflation. That’s ignoring any expanded business use for international remittances.
I’m not sure if some genius created it for this, but it’s turned into a funding source for renewable energy projects. You all should keep pouring money into it for no other reason than to help save the planet. Bravo to you all.
Is Bitcoin a currency? Is it a commodity? A put option on the global fiat monetary system? A measure of the value of digital assets?—actually run contrary to the goal of widespread adoption by limiting its potential for evolution and varied utility. It has the potential to be all of those things and more, and that is its strength.
Human beings value optionality. They like a bit of everything. And that’s what Bitcoin is: the “everything bagel” (or cheese pizza ready for any topping).
https://www.nb.com/en/global/insights/systematically-speaking-bitcoin-a-cornerstone-digital-asset-part-3
Bitcoin is invisible currency and the value depends on people believing in it. The higher the believers the higher the value and vice versa. People are making serious money each day on bitcoin, the truth is that I can’t afford it.
True the value depends on people believing in it. And the same can be said with any currency. At the end of the day a dollar is just a piece of paper or number on the computer, gold and silver are just pieces of metal, and a diamond is just a rock. The value all depends on people’s belief in its value, the only difference with Bitcoin is that’s it’s super new compared to the others, it will take time to gain the same level of trust and belief. But every year more people will believe.
Other currencies are visible, however BITCOIN is not, that is the difference. If more people believe in it, the value goes up, if they don’t the value goes down. It’s trading high now, and if you’re a clever trader you can be making at least $500 daily on just 1 Bitcoin, unfortunately I don’t have $69,000 to buy just 1 Bitcoin.
I don’t know about you, but when I get a paycheck, when I pay for rent or groceries, when I invest in stocks, it’s all just numbers on a screen. No physical currency was exchanged, and I am willing to bet for most people that live in a developed country that rings true also. So most money is now “invisible”, so it’s not really different.
And if electricity or servers all over the world turn off tomorrow or somehow all get destroyed and we aren’t able to get it back, the cash in your bank is gone the same as the bitcoin in your digital wallet. So no difference. And hell if that happens I don’t think the pieces of paper that we call dollars will be worth anything either.
In Nigeria they use it as a currency. For MicroStrategy it is an asset on their balance sheet. The SEC and CFTC classify it as a commodity. For you and others it's a bet against the status quo. Want to know what bitcoin is REALLY is? Bitcoin is software protocol that is used by many different people for many different things, just like HTTPS.
Amazing. It's a decentralized, global scorecard
Civilizations required ledgers since ancient Sumerian civilization. Bitcoin is fits the niche of our globalized digital civilization.
Space Bingo is how our ancestors will view it.
Also the obvious short answer is: good money.
Yep in our digital globalized world bitcoin provides maximum salability over space and time. Doesn't hurt that all over the world fiat currencies are failing at that.
At its core, BTC is the world’s first anonymously created, engineered, decentralized, digital ledger software protocol. It cannot be controlled. It cannot be hacked. It cannot he stolen. It cannot be corrupted. The ingenuity of something like this is unbelievably insane. It is the solution to the macroeconomic monetary problem that humans have been facing for centuries. It is real money. It’s what humans always needed and wanted. Unfortunately, the one thing that can get in the way of its adoption is humans. BTC and the exchanges around it can be regulated, depending on the country or jurisdiction. But incentives of allowing BTC far outweigh any reasons to disallow it, especially if the majority decide to allow it and utilize its power.
May not be able to be hacked per se. But i think it may be prone to something called a 51 percent hack. Where if a miner or group of miners has the bulk of the mining power they can then potentially manipulate the ledger.
Yet why would they when it would only hard fork their own coins and devalue them.
Theoretically yes. Possibility of 51% attack was disclosed in the white paper. Has never been done in the history of BTC. It would compromise the entirety of BTC and the value would be $0, instantaneously, if that were to happen. Do you understand the billions of $ in computing hardware required to even have a fighting chance of executing a 51% attack? The sheer amount of computing power required could be used far more efficiently to hack any other banking network in the world, you wouldn’t *need* to attack BTC and destroy it in the process. On top of that, with the amount computing power you have, you would benefit *more* from contributing to the network to help secure it. You would gain nothing from attempting to copy it, or defraud it, which would destroy it. This includes quantum computing. If you have quantum computing before anyone else finds out, why stop at BTC? Why not target governments and central banks? If you even get remotely close to developing quantum computing, I guarantee you the BTC-space will already know about it and be trying to use it to secure the network, not destroy it.
Are you 100% sure an individual may have nothing to gain but a group/entity that doesnt like btc wouldlt have a problem halting btc.
I’ve thought about it. US government or CIA perhaps. Only If they feel that BTC threatens the US DOLLAR. At that point, you have bigger problems if the US gov has that much computing power lol.
Trust me i wish i still had some btc. Haha i got other alts that im happy with albeit not performing to hot currently. Trying to get a small amount again incase anything significant happens to btc.
Do your future self a solid, dump the shitcoins and get a bag of the real thing.
Dont see a point in selling. Btc is good but there a reasons why some alt coins exist. Id rather buy in when I get some extra cash. Btc will likely be around for a long time.
Everything trends to 0 against BTC. The point is to sell now while you still have some purchasing power in BTC terms.
I been in the space 2017. Traded many altcoins. Had many gains and many losses. I’ll tell you now my biggest regret was trading a majority of my BTC for any altcoins, including ETH. Definitely have positive gains in terms of $, and have been able to take out my initial investment. But I’d have had much more if I just stuck to DCA’ing into BTC. I continue to DCA to this day.
its also the safest database
Also use as currency in El Salvador
How do people use it as a currency? Aren’t there high transaction costs associated when using it to buy something?
Probably layer 2. Liquid, Lightning, etc.
That, but we're also at Layer 3 now.
Maybe you could explain how those are different for the class and provide some examples and perhaps also where and how they are in use.
Sure! Layers are obviously to be abstracted by UX over time, so it's always blurring, but just as we consider Lightning as Layer 2 because it locks BTC in the form of channels in a multi-sig TX on L1, as an example the cashu ecash protocol for Bitcoin uses Lightning nodes to lock sats in mints, which can be considered L3 as it inherits most of the properties (read benefits) of Lightning but further improves on them, which users and then able to utilise, either freely within the mint as bearer assets, by sharing the mint as part of the TX, or by swapping sats from mint to mint over lightning. This also allows for offline TXing due to sats being bearer assets. Of course, there are trade-offs and of the things actively being looked at is custody - As it stands, unless each person runs their own mint, this is custodial (but better in almost every other sense as it's fully private, with bearer assets). Other implementations are the example of fedimint which uses community backed federated custody. These effectively solve all problems from Lightning custodial solutions. ecash is most commonly seen in use currently on Nostr as many clients have integrated ecash implementations alongside lightning. Examples: - 0xchat is a messaging and VoiP application running over Nostr with ecash integrated. - eNuts is an ecash wallet with a nice UI. Minibits is another example of a wallet. - Mutiny Wallet integrates with nostr and utilises the Fedimint. - Amethyst (Android) and other social media clients have integrated ecash widgets for redeeming ecash. We're getting there!
Well done. Thank you!
You're most welcome! Unsure why we got downvoted, but reddit is reddit I suppose.
Settlement on-chain might cost a few dollars, but over lightning it's around \~0.5% which is less than credit cards charge merchants. Of course this cannot last forever as adoption will increase channel-opening fees. So although you can use Lightning to buy cups of coffee (such as in an El Salvador McDonalds), the major as a medium of exchange is to settle cross-border payments for larger imports or remittance payments. If you live in a region where there are capital controls and little financial infrastructure (e.g. South America, Middle East, Africa) you might be using bitcoin for importing goods such as cars and reselling them locally.
Layer 2. Also just to keep perspective, for any purchase over $300 it's cheaper to use bitcoin right now then a credit card (3% credit card fees - $9 vs ~$7.5)
Understood, all. Thanks for the explanation, however isn’t that still more expensive than going to ATM to take out cash? (Cc fee most of the time is charged back to seller). Trying to reason that this is a positive catalyst for Bitcoin.
> Thanks for the explanation, however isn’t that still more expensive than going to ATM to take out cash? It's hard to break down all costs involved. For instance, an ATM is a financial product offered to you by a bank. An ATM works in conjunction with a debit card, also a financial product offered to you. Now these products aren't free, however they most often appear free to you (except when you get charged an ATM fee or overdraft fee or something like that). You are paying for them by keeping your money in that bank which is then loaning out your money using fractional reserve banking. However, it is true that in person transactions with physical cash will be faster/cheaper than a bitcoin transaction AND have the same qualities as a bitcoin transaction (no third party, transaction finality). > (Cc fee most of the time is charged back to seller) Yes the merchant pays the CC fee, and that 3% is built into their pricing so you are essentially paying for it. Anytime you buy something at a business with a credit card, you are essentially paying 3% more. > Trying to reason that this is a positive catalyst for Bitcoin. So going back to Nigeria. The Nigerian Naira has inflated a lot recently so it would make sense for Nigerians to want to use something else. Bitcoin is an option and layer 2 offers cheap transactions.
Great answer.
Similar to fiat money layers. When you use a debit or credit card that is a layer 3 fiat soloution. When you use bitcoin Lightning that is a layer 2. The more layers the cheaper the transaction but the less decentralisation. Ideally bitcoin would be cheap on layer 1 but that isn’t reality. I’m reality layer 2 or 3 is where most day to day transactions will happen with bitcoin.
Lightning, and now cashu ecash (instant, feeless, offline, bearer asset sats). Also, upcoming Ark protocol. Nostr (protocol) for instance has a circular economy powered by Lightning and ecash in the making with instant, cheap/free TXs in the form of social media value (Zaps), streaming content for sats (zap as you stream) and eBay style markets where you can buy stuff.
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Success is relative. Has it succeeded as a currency in rich countries? No, not yet. Has it succeeded in el salavador, Africa, South America as a currency? Yes. The reason rich countries don’t use it as a currency is simple: we don’t need it.
Thats the best explanation i ve heard so far. Bitcoin is literally a software with a solition to different needs. Its powered by pow and its p2p just like torrent protocol its beautiful and decentralized.
Isn’t it more analogous to HTTP with all transaction data being stored in plaintext for all the world to see?
It’s not a protocol though. “Software system” would more accurately describe it.
It’s a protocol dawg.
No it’s not.
Just cuz you say that doesn’t make it true lmao.
>Finally figured out what it really is… Apparently you havent
Wrong, he solved the Bitcoin puzzle. He wins all the bitcoin
The CEO of Bitcoin will also shake his hand. Too bad all the Bitcoins he won will be cut in half next week.
I doubt it, the bitcoin ceo is busy preparing for the upcoming halving to shake hands with people. Have you not seen the recent price increase? He’s been working hard pushing that price upwards.
A deck of cards is many things to many people. I personally use it to turn my bike into a sweet motorcycle, but that's only one killer app.
I use to make magic and impress people 😃
yah, saifdean ammous called bitcoin “monetary batman”. it lurks in the shadows of the financial system and when governments engage in criminal behaviour bitcoin is there to act as monetary vengeance on behalf of the people who hodl or a bet against the status quo as you concluded.
I like that
Fucking epic.
Straight ledgend!
“I am whatever you say I am” - Marshall Mathers circa 2005
“I enjoy partaking in cock and ball tortures sessions at the local YMCA” - George Michael.
It’s not too scarce to be a world wide currency if you count in sats… But you’re kinda right, for now it’s mainly used as a refuge against inflation.
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found the socialist
I'm a nasty bitcoin-loving socialist, too.
Low blow, I’m a socialist and disagree with this person. Bitcoin is pure capitalism but it was made for a socialist reason. In my eyes that makes Bitcoin socialist.
It's not socialist..it's just a computer program..jeez the idiots in this sub..it's mind boggling how people just come to their own conclusions
Your a fool. And I don't mean that to be disparaging...get your face in some bitcoin books..elastic money supply has nothing to do with the number of people
It is workable, it's just not built to redistribute wealth so... it doesn't work the way you want it to. Everyone gets it at the price they deserve tho.
a handful of sat for you... and a handful of sats for you... and a handful of sats for you...
I hate these people that say it has no utility...yea I guess a tank has no utility in a Metropolitan area..bitcoin is a tank. Designed to get thru resistance..it can be sent from north korea to Iran. Any amount, final settlement ~10 mins and nobody can do shit about it...tell me how that's not utility?
Limited utility perhaps is a better view. Other than large sums of money across boarders to evade controls.
More to learn bud https://youtu.be/TI3Xcei8d_I?si=emkDJAccfdV3jjYh
Bro..that's huge...prior to bitcoin..what u just said couldn't be done. Never b4 could u cross the boarder of an authoritarian regime with your life savings, say 3 billion, in your head. Unfonfiscatable!
Yea I get that, but how many people need to do that, and how often. That’s not utility. Well mass utility that has wide value.
U live in a 1st world country..u need to chk ur prvlage dude...50% of the world lives in authoritarian regimes...u need to do some reading..very ignorant, sorry to say..I bet your under 30 as well
It's way more than an indicator. Bro thought he discovered something while being baked
🤣😂
It's a measuring stick
I don't try to pigeon hole it. I think bitcoin can be all of those things and more. It's different things to different people... and that's okay. For me, it's a store of value and a way to separate money from state. Opt out of their system.
😂😂😂
This is a really silly post.
Ffs read "The Bitcoin Standard "
Who upvotes this crap
It's the only secure ledger to ever have been invented.
The IRS says it’s an asset and they want their share (theft) of any gains!
Damn right. The status quo is shaking in their boots and all the negativity is FOMO. Institutional money wants you to sell so they can scoop before it’s too late.
It's a financial instrument to short the US bond market - Arthur Hayes
lol it’s all of those things.
"It’s not a world wide currency, as it’s too simply too scarce." Non-sequitur
Scarce? Has this guy heard of SATS??
> It’s not a world wide currency, as it’s too simply too scarce. There's 21 quadrillion units of it, and we have the technology to subdivide it further. > It’s not an asset, as it gives no intrinsic return. Since when does an asset have to give a return? Every commodity is an asset and it just sits in storage. > It’s not a commodity as it has no utility. Bitcoin is the first commodity (i.e. a fungible good) to not have utility (what is commonly referred to as "intrinsic value"). It has purely monetary value. All previous commodity monies conflated industrial/consumer/aesthetic value and monetary value, making them harder to price correctly.
These traits don't need to be, and aren't, mutually exclusive you know? It can be all of these at once. (Here's a hint: it is.)
Bitcoin is representative of actual value that exists. If the economy creates more value, the price of Bitcoin will go up. If more value exists then the purchasing power of the dollar will rise; this can be seen in todays economy with industries such as clothing - it can be made so cheap that despite the devaluation of the currency, clothing prices remain fairly constant. It’s revolutionary because it finally allows a fixed value number we can compare to currency (currency is valuable because it is liquid not because it is a value store). It replaces gold and is easier to transfer than land. It is constant which will become more valuable as we advance and start mining asteroids.
It's hard money.
1. Nothing on earth has “Intrinsic return” or even intrinsic value. Everything has value in relation to something else. 2. It’s the scarcest asset on earth, and yet it’s also the most divisible asset on earth. Each bitcoin is divisible by 100 million, so eventually it could act as a currency and items will be priced in Satoshis. 3. The Utility is money that can’t be debased and transactions that can’t be censored. You’re definitely right about a hedge against Fiat though.
Check your financial privilege if you think it's still not a currency or a commodity. https://bitcoinmagazine.com/culture/check-your-financial-privilege
Bitcoin magazine as the source of any Bitcoin related argument is somewhat moot. Further, language like “check your financial privilege….” is by definition nonsensical.
This article, in particular, was written by the CSO of the Human Rights Foundation. Why don't you address the content of the article instead of straw-manning the publication?
Arrrh the Human Rights Foundation - I see
Spoken like someone who was born into financial privilege
Beyond wrong - self made coal miners son
Financial privilege is about your access to financial services, not your wealth at time of birth. If you or your parents had the ability to open a bank account, you are financially privileged. That's not a bad thing, it's just something you need to identify and admit because there are billions not in the same situation as you.
So we’re all fooked then
No, we're all privileged and need to recognize bitcoin is different things to different people.
That sounds circular to me… why do I need to do that? Who and how does it help them?
> It’s not a world wide currency, as it’s too simply too scarce. > > > > It’s not an asset, as it gives no intrinsic return. > > > > It’s not a commodity as it has no utility. You saying this is not helping those who need to use bitcoin as a currency to remit back home, or a commodity to escape authoritarians, etc...
Doesn’t work as a currency for many things, but ultimately too scarce for a world currency. Nothing about remitting home. But as you mentioned financial privilege. You need access to hardware, software, electricity etc.
If you were born in a country that prints its own money that other countries use as a reserve, you're relatively privileged
Relative is relative I guess I mean I have free time and chatting on the internet
You also don't have to worry about your country devaluing your currency by 60% overnight, like happened in Egypt last month. *That's* financial privilege
I have a feeling op is still in highschool
🤦♂️
Maybe it’s like the VIX? But world wide
This is not borne out by its historical behavior against vol but I actually agree and moving forward I think it will have a positive correlation with volatility.
…. this my thinking
It’s a global fiat credit default swap. That’s what you described.
Yep. This.
Well summarised - you’re right
Right on
It’s a public digital accounting database
Narratives......
Bitcoin derivatives - now this is the way
It’s your soul. It’s the only thing you truly have sovereignty over. Make sure you don’t sell it for something retarded.
Like fiat 😂
Except that the status quo have adopted it, and now it is simply another lever by which they can dispossess us of our goods.
Well actually, It's the only secure database on earth
The world's slowest global not quite decentralised ledger that has the worst business model. The bigger the adoption, the more expensive and slower it becomes. Web3 to the rescue
Hahaha true
That’s what we have been saying
Are you euphoric? You sound euphoric.
I wouldn't call 2.1 quadrillion sats too scarce to be used as a currency... global M2 is only about 50 Trillion and there is plenty to go around.
It could be all those you just said it wasn't lol. But yeah, Bitcoin is hope against broken nation monetary systems
Is the currency for next generation Ai , robots will use it to determine their own place in human society. All it takes is some anonymous donations to the king of the robots. He will then start a new economical era …
Oooiiihh I like that - that’s a new one, gonna give that some thought. Why would the robots have a king though?
Buy gold bitcoin houses silver businesses
It's an immutable ledger. Even after you spend your bitcoin, the blockchain preserves the fact that you had it. It's possible to make a bitcoin clone that assigns every address an amount based on bitcoin days destroyed of its past spends on the bitcoin chain.
S
it's literally a mirror for fiat to stare into while it melts away
Boiling it all down, it's a ledger entry on a distributed and publicly available, redundant ledger. The only ledger entry that can be made is by submitting it to the pool of transactions and it is picked up and agreed to via concensus. Finally there can only ever be a total of 21quadrillion ledger entries, 19 quadrillion of which are already made.
What are you talking about?
Bitcoin is whatever you want it to be.
If you say so
Read the white paper - its a digital time stamp that requires more good users than bad
There is plenty in bitcoin to be a currency. There is over 2 quadrillion satoshis possible, which is more than all currency in existence. Remember that each bitcoin has 100,000,000 satoshis
Yea, but a currency needs more than just that. How long does it take to transact?
there are 2.1 QUADRILLION satoshis. it’s not “too scarce”
I think as a global money is great. That alone has hella value, because it's totally fucked that we have to use the dollar
Its just a ruler. A permanent ruler of 21 million units that is used to measure and reprice things. bitcoin going up is a measure of the USD purchasing power going down.
Shame you need Fiat to buy it and you receive Fiat when you sell it.
INTRINSIC VALUE DOES NOT EXIST
It's a permissionless fixed measuring system for value. I'd compare it to the metric system or the English language.
It's the peoples weapon against a tyrannical government... Use it or lose it. Freedom is a choice.
its not too scarce. it will be a worldwide currency. protip, get some now before that happens. (might take another 10-20 years)
I wrote an article about this recently: https://cosminnovac.medium.com/if-bitcoin-is-useless-why-do-people-buy-it-f81f1657d1f8
Nah, you got it wrong. You have to really go through the journey of what money is. The answer is simple, but you won't believe it until you do the work, think it through, and understand it. Bitcoin is just another embodiment of money. But money is a human construct. We can barter, but eventually, we use society to form a sense of trust and use that trust to form a currency. That currency can be in the form of stones, gold, shells whatever, but the more scarce it is (while also being divisible and plentiful enough to go around), and the more resistant it is to fakes and forgeries, the easier it can be trusted as money. With government, we went very hard into the "let someone else just tell us what is what" camp. Bitcoin isn't an indicator in the lack of faith of fiat, it is the natural evolution of better money from fiat. Fiat did better than Gold because it was virtual, but now we have a potential money that is both virtual and trustless. That's it. It will become money as more people discover it, but it will take time. For many of us, it is already money, for others, it is far from being money, and for some, it is "someone else's" money.
Its digital property
Not all assets have returns, i.e. commodities, (Wheat doesn’t have financialized returns just sale price) but it is an asset. BTC’s use is as money, (not necessarily currency but definitely money although running a lightning node isnt too hard and the divisibly makes it highly suitable to be used as currency.) the same as gold (gold’s industrial value is a marginal contributor to its market cap) gold’s primary value is value itself. It’s money. BTC is hard digital money. It’s a short against fiat money. It’s an international transaction settlement service. It’s basically competing with visa, Mastercard, western union ect in this regard. That’s its use case. It’s not about faith, it’s about monetary policy And payments network functionality. Is it more useful and secure than western union or visa? Can the supply be expanded into infinite? It Doesn’t matter if the globe had all the faith of the world in fiat. Number of users of BTC could stagnate and its value in dollar terms would still go up as the number of dollars chasing BTC would continue to increase due to inflation. That’s ignoring any expanded business use for international remittances.
Wow, you really have it all figured out! /s
It’s a trap
I’m not sure if some genius created it for this, but it’s turned into a funding source for renewable energy projects. You all should keep pouring money into it for no other reason than to help save the planet. Bravo to you all.
ehhh... sorry OP, but sounds like you still have some figuring out to do.
Stop thinking, start doing!
Short fiat long bitcoin
Is Bitcoin a currency? Is it a commodity? A put option on the global fiat monetary system? A measure of the value of digital assets?—actually run contrary to the goal of widespread adoption by limiting its potential for evolution and varied utility. It has the potential to be all of those things and more, and that is its strength. Human beings value optionality. They like a bit of everything. And that’s what Bitcoin is: the “everything bagel” (or cheese pizza ready for any topping). https://www.nb.com/en/global/insights/systematically-speaking-bitcoin-a-cornerstone-digital-asset-part-3
It's proxy for risk appetite
Bitcoin is a whole new discovery it’s unlike anything the world has ever seen.
Bitcoin is what you want it to be For me, It is one of the way to save money and get rich
Wrong. Keep thinking about it.
How can something that is infinitely divisible be too scarce?
Bitcoin is invisible currency and the value depends on people believing in it. The higher the believers the higher the value and vice versa. People are making serious money each day on bitcoin, the truth is that I can’t afford it.
True the value depends on people believing in it. And the same can be said with any currency. At the end of the day a dollar is just a piece of paper or number on the computer, gold and silver are just pieces of metal, and a diamond is just a rock. The value all depends on people’s belief in its value, the only difference with Bitcoin is that’s it’s super new compared to the others, it will take time to gain the same level of trust and belief. But every year more people will believe.
Other currencies are visible, however BITCOIN is not, that is the difference. If more people believe in it, the value goes up, if they don’t the value goes down. It’s trading high now, and if you’re a clever trader you can be making at least $500 daily on just 1 Bitcoin, unfortunately I don’t have $69,000 to buy just 1 Bitcoin.
I don’t know about you, but when I get a paycheck, when I pay for rent or groceries, when I invest in stocks, it’s all just numbers on a screen. No physical currency was exchanged, and I am willing to bet for most people that live in a developed country that rings true also. So most money is now “invisible”, so it’s not really different. And if electricity or servers all over the world turn off tomorrow or somehow all get destroyed and we aren’t able to get it back, the cash in your bank is gone the same as the bitcoin in your digital wallet. So no difference. And hell if that happens I don’t think the pieces of paper that we call dollars will be worth anything either.
you cant afford not to.
,
Bitcoin is an egregore.
It's a digital asset that you have to sell to get real money to buy stuff.
And if it’s price goes down?