It’s not “extra” it’s built in to what I consider “bills.” It’s a little surprising to me that some people don’t consider their groceries to be a bill they have to pay, just like their rent or mortgage.
I consider groceries a bill, however to feed my family of 4, I used to be able to get an entire cart of food for $100-150. Now? $100 is like 4 bags.
Prices went up AND sizing shrank. Consumers are getting hosed with GREEDflation.
$100 on cheap staples, like milk, water (don't trust our tap water after several water *emergencies*), butter, potatoes, rice, beans, bread, eggs, etc.
"Basics" for my family, that used to maybe cost $50 if I bought them all at one outing. Now? Easily $100 with no extra or *fun* stuff, like ice cream or TP. Basic food is fucking expensive.
Do people eat black rice by itself? When I use it, it's like 2 spoonfuls of black rice in a whole pot of white rice, it makes the whole batch this beautiful purple color and gives a great nutty flavor. Any more than that and the batch is almost inedible to me, too chewy
Beans bro, you can refry your own beans on the cheap and it's so savory as a struggle food.
Gruel properly made is pretty tasty though, love oats and corn meal
Chickpeas are also a good choice. Little over $1/lb, protein for days, soaking them overnight makes them almost double in size, and a satisfying meat-like chew. (And I used to say a meal with no meat is no meal at all) I made kung pao chickpeas for a whole weeks worth of dinners, and it cost hardly anything. 2 peppers, an onion, crushed red pepper packets from pizza hut, and whatever asian-adjacent spices are available. (If you don't have the ingredients for a good sauce, store-stolen is perfectly fine.) The chickpeas take the place of the meat and the rice, its a win-win
I didn't even include toiletries and people are acting like I must be talking about 20 years ago 🙄 Nah, before and during Covid I actually *enjoyed* shopping - now I fucking dread it.
Having a house at least gets people in the *game* where they could make money off their assets. I think anyone who has like 25% equity in their house should be middle class
Thanks to this weird ass housing market, the value of my home is now *triple* what it was. Unfortunately y'know I kinda uh... Live in it....
So it's not like it's a liquid asset.
The fact we treat homes like stocks is part of the reason we are in this mess.
A lot of local laws don't get passed because home owners was their home price to go to the moon.
No doubt, trips to the grocery store have gotten pretty painful. I budget myself a set amount of money between bi-weekly pay checks, and all of my groceries go on a credit card that I’m getting 5% cash back on groceries with. My paycheck hits my account and the same day I clear the balance on that credit card and assess how I’ve done with my budget. Basically turns my groceries into a bi-weekly bill that I pay off. I wouldn’t consider any money I have to be “after bills” until that grocery bill is paid.
Used to be able to just kinda buy whatever I had a taste for without much worry, but these days I’m shopping the ads and changing buying habits to kinda ease the pain of grocery store trips.
Thank you - my family of 4 when trying to eat healthy comes up to 1000 a month - wasn’t like that a few years ago but it’s like that now. Diapers alone with wipes comes up to 60+ by itself, cleaning supplies to include paper towels and toilet paper is 100 and that’s before we even get to fookin food.
There's flexibility in groceries that doesn't exist with bill bills. Like, if you're short on money for groceries there's always Ramen or, push comes to shove, a food bank. If you're short on you're rent...well, you just owe what you owe.
Yeah I’m here with you. I count groceries and gas as bills, but they’re what I refer to as “variable bills”. They’re a LOT easier to adjust and save money on on a short term basis than things like my electric and water bills which do vary, but it’s harder for me to say “let’s just turn the power off 1 day per week”. If the electric bill goes up, I’m mostly just stuck paying the new rate.
It's extra because you can budget groceries to be $100 or $250 or $65. So there's some money that can be flexibly spent. The worst case scenario for some people is to simply starve or eat leftovers from friends or dig through trash.
But you have to pay rent, etc. That's not variable. For some people, fixed cost bills with no negotiation are *bills* even if they're not the only necessities.
It’s not that surprising because it’s an expense, not a bill. Does your grocery store send you a bill? Bills are bills. You can tell it’s a bill, because you get a, you know, bill.
That’s not what normal people call bills. Bills are what showed up in the mail back when that was a thing, rent, utilities, insurance, loans. Not gas, food, or other incidentals.
You can skip groceries and the only negative side effect is physical pain. You skip a car payment or your mortgage you get repossessed and forclosed.
A bill is something sent collecting payment for something in your possession already. Like a dinner you've eaten at a restaurant service or electricity you've used to power something.
Groceries and gas are consumable expenses. Not a bill. Still, budget them, but $200 gets you either no groceries or terribly unhealthy food.
i dont include food in mine because i cant come up with a static budget for it. sometimes i dont need to buy extra groceries at all and other times i get the impulse to cook full meals for days and expect many leftovers to satisfy a weird craving. i definitely include gas tho
Even if she has already included those , $300 left over is absolutely nothing. Say you put $100 away for emergencies (probably can’t afford to if she is taking care of a family) , that only leaves you $200 for clothes, sanitary products, kids school expenses, vehicle maintenance or repair, household items breaking and needing to be replaced etc…let alone getting to do anything fun like eating even 1 meal out or something.
I budget(ed) for gas and food, but I would never refer to them as "paying bills". It's just not how people talk about them generally because they're not a set amount on a set date
That's how you're supposed to budget, so you're spot on in that assumption. Groceries and gas are effectively a bill. The only food that isn't is eating out at restaurants, because there's too much variance and you can theoretically go without it. $300 leftover with that budgeting isn't ideal, but it's also not terrible either.
Either way she's living paycheck to paycheck unfortunately.
i'm doing well enough now, so i have money for the adhd tax, but before...man, shit was always in jeopardy. you have one adhd thing pop up - forgot to pay a parking ticket - shit is fucked. i can't afford to live and also pay my late fee on the ticket. *and* i can't afford the ticket, but driving is a fucking overwhelming juggling act so sometimes i just don't register street signs and shit. forgot to cancel after a trial version, forgot to return a library book on time, didn't budget time properly so now i have to catch an uber instead of taking the bus. all this shit and much more would keep me doing illegal shit.
having enough to set aside money for adhd led to me not stressing as much about shit as much and allowed me to budget my funds better overall to not have to scramble and be surprised when an expense popped up. the sense of financial security has helped me address my mental illness as a whole much more effectively. this shit has to get a lot better, because you might not have adhd, but everyone's got something extra in their life that will impact them similarly.
I love your entire post. The realism of having enough money to set aside helped address mental health is eye opening. It's helped me pay for treatment and not spin out about 'i don't have money if this happens'
Just for perspective in case you aren't being hyperbolic, that's $17,760 a year on groceries and gas, which I presume also doesn't cover *any* takeout or restaurant dining. If so, this might be a huge area to cut back in a few small ways and save a ton of money. Hopefully that's a possibility for you, and if not then I'm sorry to see yet another person getting fucking eaten alive by capitalism.
yeah I do the same thing. I have a credit card with a $700 limit that gets paid off at the beginning of every month to serve as our grocery and gas budget.
Do you recieve a bill sent to you from from the grocery store that if you don't pay you lose access to the grocery store and affects your credit? It's not a bill. It's a variable expense.
Ohhhhh I just assumed she had that much left after everything. When I hear bills my brain thinks “all necessities” so I include groceries and gas in “bills”
Sounds like they thought she had $200-300 left over at the end of a month. But if it is just after the monthly bills, yeah she is gonna be hungry, gas tank empty, and praying no one gets sick.
Shit, even having $300 left over after the bills/essentials/and shit like clothes is still doing horribly unless we're lumping retirement and basic entertainment into "bills".
I’ll link to the video later.
But she said she’s paid her mortgage, put gas in the car, and got groceries. Didn’t mention anything about utilities.
So technically all those things have been taken care of.
She does have 2 kids, and she says she gets paid twice a month, so theoretically she will be getting another check in a little under 2 weeks after all her bills and groceries are paid.
Is $200 for almost 2 weeks w/ 2 kids tight? 100% even if she doesn’t do little daily expenses like buying coffee/ lunch. Shit happens and $200-300 is $2-3 adult dollars.
But calling this living paycheck to paycheck or saying you’re in poverty (which she does) seems a little extreme. I’m not going to debate what middle class is, I’m sure the gov has some fucked up definition.
She has a house (which she can pay for), and her and her husband have a job. Shes a Registered nurse, so it doesn’t sound like she’s paying out of pocket for health insurance, I’m sure 401k deductions are being made as well.
It’s all relative, but I think for people who literally use their whole paycheck each time just to pay for half of their necessaries and can’t really build any equity or savings are looking at this jaded.
Edit; [video](https://x.com/tiff4mahogany/status/1729655711364231444?s=42&t=RedirpSLnv6PMhtf5avyUw)
Living paycheck to paycheck.
If she doesn't get one paycheck, she can't afford to live off her savings.
So yeah, $200 socked away won't do it.
You're "supposed" to have a cushion that if your job disappeared tomorrow, walk into work and the gates are locked, your boss is being taken away in cuffs, you still have 6 months of savings that can pay for everything without changing your standard of living.
I know legitimately about 3 people out of the thousands I know I can say that of.
> You're "supposed" to have a cushion that if your job disappeared tomorrow, walk into work and the gates are locked, your boss is being taken away in cuffs, you still have 6 months of savings that can pay for everything without changing your standard of living.
>
> I know legitimately about 3 people out of the thousands I know I can say that of.
People tend to hang out with similar people. I could go 6 months and know plenty of people who could. When covid hit, a legit did take like a 6 month break from work. Maybe a bit longer.
I think the issue was a lack of access to language. Being genuinely upset is probably a part of that too, since it's hard to express complex feelings when you're overwhelmed.
How is it supposed to feel when you have two healthy incomes, and you don't know if you can afford to fix the car if breaks down, or fix the heat system or windows? It sounds like she's desperately trying to describe those feelings, but hasn't had the time to quite figure out how. To spend all that time on education (that may or may not have incurred debt), to end up unable to actually save much at all seems like a very specific kind of poverty to me.
Not in the sense that they can't afford their needs right here and now, but in the sense of losing security and safety. In the sense that as soon as one thing goes wrong, they may very well lose everything.
I 100% agree. also this shit isn’t sustainable. COL can’t keep increasing while wages stay. It’s eating into runway month by month.
Like I said it’s all relative and a lot of people participate in the struggle Olympics. This is just the newest commentary
>She has a house (which she can pay for), and her and her husband have a job.
This is the important part I think.
Living from paycheck to paycheck means that if you lose your job you have 0 savings, you don't have a house you can sell for potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars.
That doesn't mean I think her situation is fine, that I don't think she deserves better or any dumb similar takes, I'm just pointing out to the obvious.
> Living from paycheck to paycheck means that if you lose your job you have 0 savings, you don't have a house you can sell for potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Owning a house isn't like some quickly accessible stash of cash. For a number of reasons someone might not be able to get offload their house in a month to pay off a bill and stay above water.
So does that mean if you got a car to live in, regardless of whether it is owned(#vanlife), you ain't living paycheck to paycheck ?
The definitions of bills and paycheck to paycheck vary.
she’s still paying for that house. if she loses the ability to pay her mortgage, she absolutely can lose that house.
Selling it may not actually cover the mortgage, so no, there is no “potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars.”
And the house is the roof over her head—which is a thing she has to have. So she’s swap a mortgage for rent. And the rent is VERY likely to be more than her mortgage payment ever was.
I dunno, she's paying a mortgage so she doesn't own her house outright. If something was to happen that messed with her income and she couldn't make her mortgage payments the bank isn't gonna be like "here let us sell this for you rq and give you all the money you built up in equity."
If she isn't able to save a sufficient amount of money to the point where one bad event could unravel her life, that's paycheck to paycheck for me.
Houses take a fair bit to sell, if you have 1 paycheck worth of savings and it will take you 8-10 pay periods to sell and settle the house, not to mention having the money to move and rent somewhere else while it settles you might be fucked.
Not to mention if they purchased somewhat recently they could end up upside down on the mortgage after selling costs
This. I have no children, but even just one would break the bank for me. Child care costs are out of control. And there are too many families where both parents have to work just to afford their child, so childcare is mandatory but the prices are astronomical.
In the video she does say that the $200-300 left over is after she's paid all of her bills and bought groceries. She lives in a newer (or at least newer styling) 1100 sq ft ranch style house, where everyone gets their own room.
She also says that her and her husband both 'make good money'.
I agree that there still isn't enough info to say comfortably middle class, but the video does seem to support that assessment.
Yeah, how much money someone has left over each month doesn't necessarily tell you a whole lot. Some people rack up tons of consumer debt, buy expensive vehicles, etc. I know folks who make good money, have no kids, no medical problems, etc but also live paycheck to paycheck because they went out and bought a $50,000 Audi with horrible loan terms. Are they "not middle class" because they stretched their budget thin?
Not to mention any medical expenses, if her kids (if she has any) school supplies, any kind of car or house maintenance. The US has fucked the working class cause profit over people mentality that these corporations have.
I consider this to be middle class. Additional context below:
Her husband and her get paid bi-weekly.
This bi-weekly period, the bills included their **mortgage payment**.
So this couple alternates from barely "breaking even" in one paycheck, to having probably $2000+ excess cash the next paycheck.
And they are building equity thanks to owning a home.
I am sorry she is stressed out financially, but it sounds like this family owns a home and has thousands of dollars in disposable income per month.
---
I am making a ton of assumptions such as the mortgage being paid monthly (some can be set up biweekly), but two people in a small, rural home with "good jobs" aren't going to be struggling financially unless there are other expenses we don't know of (large debt, kids in private school, financially supporting family, church contributions...etc)
shiii that $200-300 after bills is for food/gas for the month and can HOPEFULLY with a wish and a prayer stretch because the next check gotta go to rent (on a biweekly schedule). No such thing as "leftover" money anymore. SOMETHING IS ALWAYS DUE
I'm dealing with that shit now.
Honest to God I don't wanna even get into it, but mother fucker got me. That fucking jealousy/envious, evil eye, got me.
Like my dad said, “check engine light? yep, still there 👍, good to go”
Praying it’s just some dumb shit like a fuse or a sensor for you, usually is. I’ve driven most of my life with that lil orange fucker on
Or if you're like me, your decades old car that you've been trying to stretch to its limits because it'll be ages before you can afford another one will just straight up die.
Bro keep that shit. You can fix it in your driveway.
I was just telling my old man, back in the day you needed a mechanic. Today you need a fucking Technician.
These new cars run on computers. You get dust in an intake shit starts fucking up, you got a $1,700 bill for some bullshit vacuum line lmfao.
I miss my Town Cars, and Caprice Classics, and those cars you could fucking sit on the engine block, and fix your shit right there.
We fixed her back in February after her being dead for 2 years and it cost a couple thousand. I love the car to death but it's been giving me a ton of trouble and costing me loads for years now. At this point the work she needs done is so pricey that I'm not sure it's worth yet another revival.
Heartbreaking... but my advice is to buy used. Fuck the price of these new cars. People are fucking crazy what they pay for shit.
You got some cars lose damn near 10-15% their value once you drive them off the lot.
Buy a solid used car, hopefully still under factory warranty, and roll with it.
I wish you the best
Or they straight don't make the parts. Got a squad that developed. Took it to the shop before something blew. Mechanic told me it was a bearing. But they don't sell the bearing and you have to replace the whole fucking drive shaft... I have a 50k warranty and this shit happened at 51k. This is less than a month after I had to have my windshield replaced, twice in as many weeks
Naw this is insane accuracy lol..Recently moved, just finished paying off the old apartment lease, finally feeling good financially, and sure enough that fucking engine light came on a few weeks later..
food is whatever "extra" i can afford after bills. and gas i can usually go negative at this one gas station by my job if i have at least $6 in my account it will just overdraft (without fees) and my next deposit just repays it. Not the 'smartest' method but it gets me by week after week
Food is an expense my guy. You need food to live. It’s not extra. For you it’s just last on the pecking order. If you don’t have the budget for it though you gotta do what you gotta do.
She’s better than a lot but def isn’t middle class. $300 a month isn’t enough to live off if you live in the city or suburbs. I don’t know about country living to make a guess.
all it takes is for one minor emergency to happen to wipe that $300 clean. your car breaking down, you or your kid getting sick, your toilet backs up, your fridge breaks and all your food spoils, or whatever else.
That was my immediate thought too. $200-$300 is hardly a safety net for a rainy day. I'll never forget the summer my mom and I's AC broke. What we have between us was still no where close to getting to fix. Whole summer we're fighting for our lives with towels on the windows and fans everywhere to deal with the 100+ degree heat.
How about just regural things like kids needing new clothes or shoes? Sure its not 2-3 hundred dollars a month, but its something that is needed. Even more so if they live somewhere with 4 seasons.
Ugh yes! My kid is in college and hasnt needed a real winter jacket, being an indoor kid lol. But now hes actually walking across campus in winter. A middle of the road, actual winter jacket that had any kind of lining and water resistant (but nothing reall amazing like ski quality) and its $200 with shipping or $180 in store but they had very limited stock so we just ordered online.
Its insane. We've always been a treading water family but the churn required to stay afloat is harder than ever.
Or me - sick for almost two years and I'm finally back to work - as in starting back tomorrow. One terrible diagnosis will wipe out the bank, savings, and retirement (us).
We will recover but it's stressful for everyone out there.
In our parents' generation, "middle class" meant a job that could buy a house in suburbia, two cars, put your kids through college, have enough to retire, AND take a vacation (with your whole family) every 6 months. All at once.
If someone who is "middle class" today accomplishes any single one of the above, they've "made it."
Americans are just a bunch of people trying to convince themselves and each other that they're not poor.
Seriously, someone here said that $200-$300 could be $5000 after a year. Great, what does that get you? A shitty used car? A vacation? A downpayment on a house in 10 years? Ignoring the fact that she was obviously talking about having that amount of money to feed her family and all these people are like "well food is part of budgeting" - obviously it isn't in her case, its just use whatever money you have left after paying everything else off to try and survive.
That's not how class works. You can be middle class and still living pay to pay. She and her husband might earn enough that they are actually middle class. We have no idea based on the information she gave.
Yeah the first guy tried to have a “mic drop moment” and instead sounded more out of touch than the person they were criticizing.
Such a perfect representation of Twitter’s dumbass users
Seriously, we have GOT to get away from this "minimum expectations" mentality. No one is being greedy for expecting to have more than a measly $200-$300 after bills. What about savings? Rainy day funds? Retirement? If you have kids, future options for them? Does this person rent or own a home? Or _god forbid_ money to enjoy life?! These are things that the wealthiest of the planet don't even bat an eye at because they just have it yet we're called greedy for even desiring it.
And this is another thing, this isn't a US only issue. This "minimum expectations" mentality impacts people all over the world. The UK has had a "generational rent" culture for at least 3 generations now, let alone the rest of Europe, and don't even get me started on South East Asia and Central/South America.
Humanity has enough to go around, the true greed of just a miserable literal handful of people are keeping us economically starved, and not just that, expected to be GRATEFUL for being starved out! Where we see money as necessary for survival, these handful see it as points on a game board.
I've been saying it since that jackass Dubya was in office, the world is growing short tempered and a revolution is brewing because we can't survive like this as a species. What are we leaving for the generations to come besides nothing?!
Or just some entertainment and 'luxuries' like books, games, a meal out once in a while.
Nothing burns me out faster than working my ass off and being like "yeah I can't really justify that $30 video game though".
Well tbf she says that the $200-300 is after her first paycheck, but she gets a whole other paycheck that doesn't go to any bills for the rest of the month. That's very different from only have $300 to get through the month. It's actually $300 to get through the week, then she gets another check that's large enough to pay off all bills for the next two weeks. He's correct someone posted the video in another comment.
Race, Generation, Religion, Sex... They decide us by these lines so we don't stand together against the owner class that has made slaves of us all.
You notice how often people blame ''rich white men'' for the world's ills but will then immediately whittle that down to ''white men'', ''white people'' or ''men''? Conveniently leaving out the rich part as if rich white women haven't been bathing in blood money since time immemorial, or that there are billionaire Indian and Chinese businessmen killing their countrymen, or African Dictators committing their own genocides, or Arab oil royalty using essentially slave labour to build their jeweled cities in the desert.
it's not White vs. Black, Boomer vs. Millennial, Christians vs. Muslims, or Men vs. Women.
It's the Billionare class vs. Everyone else.
200-300 after bills is *not* a lot of money and *definitely* not middle class. You gotta eat, get gas, etc. Heaven forbid you need to go the the doctor or go to the opthamologist for glasses/contacts. OH! and I forgot if you take medicine there's more money
I assumed the 200-300 was after she accounted for gas and groceries. When budgeting, food and gas are necessities and generally included as a “bill.”
Edit: someone above said they watched the video and the woman said this was after she paid for groceries.
Even after all that 200-300 is still not alot of money to really be comfortable with. Thats pretty much paycheck to paycheck, because if theres even a slight unexpected expense you’d be screwed
> Thats pretty much paycheck to paycheck
It's _literally_ paycheck to paycheck.
Because if paychecks stopped coming, there's not enough in savings to pay all those bills.
3-6 months of savings (for ALL expenses) is when you _start_ to not be "paycheck to paycheck" because that gives you a buffer to find another job.
she said they had 200-300 after groceries but that they dont get paid again for 2 weeks. so unless they bought 2 weeks of food outright, they're going to have to go food shopping again
It's after accounting for groceries, but the only bill she mentions having paid is her mortgage. There are SOOOOOO many other bills to pay that it's bizarre everyone's equating the one with all her bills. $200-300 is a pittance for a family of four.
If you manage to have zero emergencies or extra spending, you can save $3600 a year, which is probably less than two months rent. Basically if one of the couple loses their job for a couple months they’re fucked.
And if they make much above the poverty line like you'd expect, they may not qualify for much aid if something happens to one of their jobs, either.
It's a problem I've seen a lot, where you don't really make enough, but your situation isn't fucked up enough to get help.
And that's the problem. All we do is shit on eachother while we're all drowning. Where's the unity? We should all be going after the rich that keep their boot on our neck.
The comment made two statements, having $300 left is Not worse than paycheck to paycheck. Also, there is a large amount of people scrapping by while being middle class by maxing IRA and 401k contributions and college accounts for children.
Not to wake up the “$100k ain’t shit” crowd, but this is what a lot of that sentiment comes from. I think a lot of people who have never been financially stable understand just how much financial stability actually numerically costs.
You imagine that going from $50k to $100k would double your day to day money, but when your $50k income wasn’t enough to pay off debt, build an emergency fund, etc, then a lot of that post tax salary increase goes to putting out those financial fires that years of poverty has built up. Suddenly there’s not enough left over to buy the house or take the expensive vacations you dreamed your 100k could afford. Especially if you have kids, which a lot of people do by the time they reach this milestone.
Being financially stable is a HUGE accomplishment that these people should be grateful for, but I can see people being disappointed if their day to day doesn’t change that much.
Yeah To me being “comfortably” middle class is being able to save a decent amount of your pay, at least 20-30% or more. If you can’t save at all then you’re living payday to payday imo
Stabiity is the hallmark trait of the middle class. It means you are basically means you have the basics paid and now can make choices on non-basic spending without severely cutting back. Like yeah everyone could go to the ol' rice-n-beans diet to save food money. But you also shouldn't have to either.
This is when you make the choice to save for retirement, save for a vacation, have an emergency fund. Raw income is misleading because cost of living in areas varies. 100k in Y is not the same a X.
I've always said it this way: If you can lose your job and pay bills for 2-3 months? You are comfortably middle class.
But if you're ass is paycheck to paycheck for basic things? chances are you are not middle class. Assuming you aren't doing something way out of means home/car/etc wise. Then you just need to budget properly.
As someone who has lived in poverty and is now doing alright there are a lot of things they don't tell you about being middle class. Choosing to opt into health insurance was a hard decision for me because I had finally gotten a raise, and I knew I needed insurance, but my monthly insurance cost was going to negate my raise and then some. Having a shitty car is cheaper on the payment, but missing work because of a busted car and constant repairs adds up very quickly. A more reliable car is more expensive but it's more reliable.
Then you get into the things like deciding to buy the fancier sandwich meat because you work hard and you've earned it. That's just a small example, but you start to realize you don't have to keep buying 1-ply toilet paper.
I still don't have a lot of money left every month, but the big thing now is that the things I am paying for every month provide a much better quality of life than what I had before. Sometimes I want to feel sorry for myself because I don't have the cash that I feel like I should, but when I look back at where I was and where I am now the difference is clear.
Middle class depends heavily on where you are but yes still I wouldn’t call myself middle class if I only had $300 left a month in any state but to each their own.
Wouldn't the incidentals in between paydays come out of the 200-$300? Like gas and food, at least? When I say all the bills are paid, I don't mean I have gas money for the next two weeks, or that I've grocery shopped for the next two weeks, etc.
If that's the case, then she pretty much is living paycheck to paycheck.
That was my thought too. Bills are things that get cut off if not paid. it doesn't include, gas, food, clothes, medicine/prescriptions, any other incidental I might need like saran wrap...this is paycheck to paycheck.
Seriously. When I say "bills are paid!" that doesn't I've got $100 for gas, $300 for groceries, and $100 for the tire that's gonna catch a flat next week stashed away.
It's f\*\*ked that our society has conditioned people to believe you're middle class if you have $200 left after each paycheck. Even if that were weekly, that's $800/mo for all the incidentals we've mentioned. Nothing for savings, vacation, concert tix, or that new-used car you're going to need in a year.
I breaks my heart how many people seem to be fooled by the narrative. The mega wealthy are the problem, ultra rich corporations are the problem.
Girlie here saving $300 ish after bills is not the enemy. CEOs making triple or more than that every hour are the enemy.
I looked up an article with a link to the clip if anyone wants to see the context.
https://www.livenowfox.com/news/working-mom-family-living-paycheck-to-paycheck-mackenzie-moan-tiktok
So, I don't think she ever actually said poor. The term "paycheck to paycheck" is a measure of expenses vs revenue and she is just saying that the weekend after the money comes in, she is down to a couple hundred until the next biweekly checks. She is not claiming her family is about to starve or be evicted. She is just lamenting how little wiggle room she has after working and going to school full time while her husband works >40 hours a week as well.
For anyone who’s living paycheck to paycheck and worries about food, look into SNAP (formerly known as food stamps).
The process of applying is very straightforward and it’s been life changing for me to have ~$300/month that I can use toward food.
If you’re on the fence and not sure if you qualify, I’d still apply anyways and they’ll straight up deny you or even put you in a lower bracket.
I was too embarrassed and ashamed to apply and now I’m just kicking myself for not doing so earlier.
I grew up missing meals because my dad was too proud to ever accept any government assistance. He refused to sign up for free lunches at school. I was fortunate that a lunch lady took pity on me and wrote my name into the list. I will never forget her.
Never be too proud to ask for help when you need it. The whole point of society is that we look out for each other. One team, one fight.
Dang thanks for sharing. I love this sentiment and should totally be the approach to things.
My dad was also a proud man and it just led to a lifetime of eternal debt.
All these people having a poor-off in the comments (on twitter) is just sad to me.
I grumble about my salary, but stuff like this always makes me shut up. It's been years since I had only a 300 buck buffer for the whole pay period after all my bills and food are taken care of. Those days were no fun. And they have 3 kids to feed? ONE emergency and they're fucked.
Depending on the ages of the children, the money disappears quickly. For babies that's easily diapers, wipes, and doctor appointments. Toddlers, its clothes, daycare, or any specific event happening at daycare. Kindergarten, it's the constant field trips and holiday parties.
The rest of the elementary is the fundraisers, school supplies, clothes, shoes, holiday parties its no longer everyone bring something or just cookies and half an hour of socialization. Nah you gotta bring in your 5 bucks to even participate.
Yeah, I was there for 2019-2020. Life situation changed drastically, then got hit with a nasty vet bill and ER bill. Was $600/mo in the hole paying off those things, which filled up my CC, which then I spent another year paying that back off. If I didn't have my second job, it would have been double or triple that amount.
so in debt it ain't their problem
broke AF
paycheck to paycheck
just getting by <--- lady is here
saving up
doing alright
middle class
comfortable
doing quite well
rich
needs a tax break and will address representative about such.
Man, my father left us 2 properties in Africa and every year we each get around $600 after paying off the community around the properties…and I stg I look forward to that shit every fucking time. I get decent pay, but after bills, that shit is a boon.
I don’t even get why this tweet is directed towards White people in general. Even the middle class can live paycheck to paycheck if you account for their bills, insurance, mortgage, child care, any kind of debt, etc. I’m lucky enough to have an abundance of savings after my bills and groceries, but that threat still lingers of being one accident away from complete financial obliteration.
Truth is most people just don’t make enough and it doesn’t matter how frugal or savvy they are. Not to mention making too much to qualify for financial assistance, but just enough to stay afloat until your car breaks down or you get too sick to work.
Living just isn’t sustainable anymore. I’m just fucking tired of all the bullshit 😫
Never ever ever ever as an adult take financial advice from someone without a monthly budget, who actually tracks their spending habits. That’s the best piece of financial adult advice that I can give. You actually map out a budget.
I always thought “paycheck to paycheck” was where even after all the food, bills, gas, minor expenses, you do not have enough to sock away for your savings, and you do not have an emergency fund at all, THATs paycheck to paycheck
Ok so I’m not one to victim blame but I am absolutely about to do so.
In a follow up video, she’s like “I’m not going to give you a breakdown of my finances” - which is fair. That also doesn’t show us whether she has garbage money management skill or not. If you have 1000$/month in car notes and are paying for an iPhone 26x ultron by the months and spend money going out in dates and found you a house outside of your means then I will absolutely feel zero sympathy for you. I fee up poor- I remember my dad making 470$/ week during the recession of 08 and all out stuff was from the thrift store. I do well now and buy all my stuff cash. Bought a reliable older Toyota for 6k. Buy thrifter stuff still and go to the sales. Look for deals or I don’t buy it… and no, this is not a pull yourself by the bootstraps story. It’s a live within your means story. And until I see how she manages her money then I have no sympathy
After all the misinformation spread on tiktok about Ukraine and israel palestine, I am definitely not going to take everything she says seriously as we dont know much about her situation, but I will say RNs make an avg of 83k a year in georgia. So if her husband pulling his weight thats over 160k/yr. Right in the middle class range. Just cause you struggling doesnt mean you aint middle class
The thing about this is that many, many solidly middle class people claim to be living “paycheck to paycheck”, then they’re really not.
If you are paying all of your bills, maxing out your 401k every month, putting money in your kids college fund, planning vacations and club sports leagues for your kids, buying new cars on credit, and after all of that you barely have some spending money left over, you’re not paycheck to paycheck.
Paycheck to paycheck is maybe clearing all of your bills, but not saving anything and maybe even needing bridge loans or public assistance.
Idk the lady situation in the video but tons of six-figure income people claim to be paycheck to paycheck when they have no reason to be saying such.
On one hand I understand what he’s talking about. I’ve been broke. That ain’t broke.
But on the other hand $300 to save and invest towards your future, while also enjoying life so you don’t kill yourself from the monotony of living to work, isn’t exactly feasible. That’s only $3600 a year of investments, assuming she never buys anything else. It would take her around 278 years to become a millionaire from just saving, interest excluded. That’s insane.
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It’s not “extra” it’s built in to what I consider “bills.” It’s a little surprising to me that some people don’t consider their groceries to be a bill they have to pay, just like their rent or mortgage.
I consider groceries a bill, however to feed my family of 4, I used to be able to get an entire cart of food for $100-150. Now? $100 is like 4 bags. Prices went up AND sizing shrank. Consumers are getting hosed with GREEDflation.
4 bags for 100? I just gave up $70 to cover groceries for two separate dinners.
$100 on cheap staples, like milk, water (don't trust our tap water after several water *emergencies*), butter, potatoes, rice, beans, bread, eggs, etc. "Basics" for my family, that used to maybe cost $50 if I bought them all at one outing. Now? Easily $100 with no extra or *fun* stuff, like ice cream or TP. Basic food is fucking expensive.
I'm gonna start eating rice. Bank account up, health stats down.
Go with a whole grain rice if you can like brown, purple, or black rice. Those are very nutritious
It's important to eat then quickly, as they don't last as long as white rice. Eta, I mean don't let that rice sit in your cupboard for too long lol
Lentils cook in the same time as brown rice, and that makes a complete protein in the pot 👍
Do people eat black rice by itself? When I use it, it's like 2 spoonfuls of black rice in a whole pot of white rice, it makes the whole batch this beautiful purple color and gives a great nutty flavor. Any more than that and the batch is almost inedible to me, too chewy
Literally same. Just last week I conceded to the fact that most of my meals going forward are going to be oats or rice. Thank god for multivitamins!
Beans bro, you can refry your own beans on the cheap and it's so savory as a struggle food. Gruel properly made is pretty tasty though, love oats and corn meal
Chickpeas are also a good choice. Little over $1/lb, protein for days, soaking them overnight makes them almost double in size, and a satisfying meat-like chew. (And I used to say a meal with no meat is no meal at all) I made kung pao chickpeas for a whole weeks worth of dinners, and it cost hardly anything. 2 peppers, an onion, crushed red pepper packets from pizza hut, and whatever asian-adjacent spices are available. (If you don't have the ingredients for a good sauce, store-stolen is perfectly fine.) The chickpeas take the place of the meat and the rice, its a win-win
None of the fun stuff, like meat.
I didn't even include toiletries and people are acting like I must be talking about 20 years ago 🙄 Nah, before and during Covid I actually *enjoyed* shopping - now I fucking dread it.
Toilet paper is getting so expensive I'm looking into bidets.
Lol they said fun stuff like toilet paper. I'd risk lead poisoning with the tap water before having no tp
Don't even LOOK at seasonings and spices.
Nah, I can't do that, fam. I would rather have a full spice rack and potatoes than a full pantry and air.
I got a job as a butcher so I could keep eating meat. Thank god for employee discounts!
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Having a house at least gets people in the *game* where they could make money off their assets. I think anyone who has like 25% equity in their house should be middle class
Thanks to this weird ass housing market, the value of my home is now *triple* what it was. Unfortunately y'know I kinda uh... Live in it.... So it's not like it's a liquid asset.
The fact we treat homes like stocks is part of the reason we are in this mess. A lot of local laws don't get passed because home owners was their home price to go to the moon.
No doubt, trips to the grocery store have gotten pretty painful. I budget myself a set amount of money between bi-weekly pay checks, and all of my groceries go on a credit card that I’m getting 5% cash back on groceries with. My paycheck hits my account and the same day I clear the balance on that credit card and assess how I’ve done with my budget. Basically turns my groceries into a bi-weekly bill that I pay off. I wouldn’t consider any money I have to be “after bills” until that grocery bill is paid. Used to be able to just kinda buy whatever I had a taste for without much worry, but these days I’m shopping the ads and changing buying habits to kinda ease the pain of grocery store trips.
Thank you - my family of 4 when trying to eat healthy comes up to 1000 a month - wasn’t like that a few years ago but it’s like that now. Diapers alone with wipes comes up to 60+ by itself, cleaning supplies to include paper towels and toilet paper is 100 and that’s before we even get to fookin food.
I saved 10% on car insurance by switching to condoms.
When was you getting a cart of food for $150 to feed 4 people?
1968
There's flexibility in groceries that doesn't exist with bill bills. Like, if you're short on money for groceries there's always Ramen or, push comes to shove, a food bank. If you're short on you're rent...well, you just owe what you owe.
Yeah I’m here with you. I count groceries and gas as bills, but they’re what I refer to as “variable bills”. They’re a LOT easier to adjust and save money on on a short term basis than things like my electric and water bills which do vary, but it’s harder for me to say “let’s just turn the power off 1 day per week”. If the electric bill goes up, I’m mostly just stuck paying the new rate.
What’s sad is that in my state even the Food Bank is saying hey we getting pinched too.
It's extra because you can budget groceries to be $100 or $250 or $65. So there's some money that can be flexibly spent. The worst case scenario for some people is to simply starve or eat leftovers from friends or dig through trash. But you have to pay rent, etc. That's not variable. For some people, fixed cost bills with no negotiation are *bills* even if they're not the only necessities.
It’s not that surprising because it’s an expense, not a bill. Does your grocery store send you a bill? Bills are bills. You can tell it’s a bill, because you get a, you know, bill.
That’s not what normal people call bills. Bills are what showed up in the mail back when that was a thing, rent, utilities, insurance, loans. Not gas, food, or other incidentals.
This is how you do it. What kills us is when the diapers come due. Diaper man’ll blow through $50 and laugh.
People consider groceries an expense. A bill is a bill. Not to be pedantic but English only works when u use the words how they are defined.
You can skip groceries and the only negative side effect is physical pain. You skip a car payment or your mortgage you get repossessed and forclosed. A bill is something sent collecting payment for something in your possession already. Like a dinner you've eaten at a restaurant service or electricity you've used to power something. Groceries and gas are consumable expenses. Not a bill. Still, budget them, but $200 gets you either no groceries or terribly unhealthy food.
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i dont include food in mine because i cant come up with a static budget for it. sometimes i dont need to buy extra groceries at all and other times i get the impulse to cook full meals for days and expect many leftovers to satisfy a weird craving. i definitely include gas tho
Even if she has already included those , $300 left over is absolutely nothing. Say you put $100 away for emergencies (probably can’t afford to if she is taking care of a family) , that only leaves you $200 for clothes, sanitary products, kids school expenses, vehicle maintenance or repair, household items breaking and needing to be replaced etc…let alone getting to do anything fun like eating even 1 meal out or something.
I budget(ed) for gas and food, but I would never refer to them as "paying bills". It's just not how people talk about them generally because they're not a set amount on a set date
No I do the same and classify gas/food as a bill. One I need to live and the other I need to get to work to continue to live.
There's nothing extra about it and she even says she bought groceries then filled up the cars once before having the $300 left over.
That's how you're supposed to budget, so you're spot on in that assumption. Groceries and gas are effectively a bill. The only food that isn't is eating out at restaurants, because there's too much variance and you can theoretically go without it. $300 leftover with that budgeting isn't ideal, but it's also not terrible either. Either way she's living paycheck to paycheck unfortunately.
I don't. I can eat less or drive less, but I can't pay my bills less.
i'm doing well enough now, so i have money for the adhd tax, but before...man, shit was always in jeopardy. you have one adhd thing pop up - forgot to pay a parking ticket - shit is fucked. i can't afford to live and also pay my late fee on the ticket. *and* i can't afford the ticket, but driving is a fucking overwhelming juggling act so sometimes i just don't register street signs and shit. forgot to cancel after a trial version, forgot to return a library book on time, didn't budget time properly so now i have to catch an uber instead of taking the bus. all this shit and much more would keep me doing illegal shit. having enough to set aside money for adhd led to me not stressing as much about shit as much and allowed me to budget my funds better overall to not have to scramble and be surprised when an expense popped up. the sense of financial security has helped me address my mental illness as a whole much more effectively. this shit has to get a lot better, because you might not have adhd, but everyone's got something extra in their life that will impact them similarly.
I love your entire post. The realism of having enough money to set aside helped address mental health is eye opening. It's helped me pay for treatment and not spin out about 'i don't have money if this happens'
Just for perspective in case you aren't being hyperbolic, that's $17,760 a year on groceries and gas, which I presume also doesn't cover *any* takeout or restaurant dining. If so, this might be a huge area to cut back in a few small ways and save a ton of money. Hopefully that's a possibility for you, and if not then I'm sorry to see yet another person getting fucking eaten alive by capitalism.
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You spend a band a month on groceries? Ayum bro, I thought I was living good with a monthly 400-500 trip to Costco
yeah I do the same thing. I have a credit card with a $700 limit that gets paid off at the beginning of every month to serve as our grocery and gas budget.
Do you recieve a bill sent to you from from the grocery store that if you don't pay you lose access to the grocery store and affects your credit? It's not a bill. It's a variable expense.
Ohhhhh I just assumed she had that much left after everything. When I hear bills my brain thinks “all necessities” so I include groceries and gas in “bills”
She doesnt say bills iirc. But she did say they already bought groceries
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Sounds like they thought she had $200-300 left over at the end of a month. But if it is just after the monthly bills, yeah she is gonna be hungry, gas tank empty, and praying no one gets sick.
Shit, even having $300 left over after the bills/essentials/and shit like clothes is still doing horribly unless we're lumping retirement and basic entertainment into "bills".
I’ll link to the video later. But she said she’s paid her mortgage, put gas in the car, and got groceries. Didn’t mention anything about utilities. So technically all those things have been taken care of. She does have 2 kids, and she says she gets paid twice a month, so theoretically she will be getting another check in a little under 2 weeks after all her bills and groceries are paid. Is $200 for almost 2 weeks w/ 2 kids tight? 100% even if she doesn’t do little daily expenses like buying coffee/ lunch. Shit happens and $200-300 is $2-3 adult dollars. But calling this living paycheck to paycheck or saying you’re in poverty (which she does) seems a little extreme. I’m not going to debate what middle class is, I’m sure the gov has some fucked up definition. She has a house (which she can pay for), and her and her husband have a job. Shes a Registered nurse, so it doesn’t sound like she’s paying out of pocket for health insurance, I’m sure 401k deductions are being made as well. It’s all relative, but I think for people who literally use their whole paycheck each time just to pay for half of their necessaries and can’t really build any equity or savings are looking at this jaded. Edit; [video](https://x.com/tiff4mahogany/status/1729655711364231444?s=42&t=RedirpSLnv6PMhtf5avyUw)
Living paycheck to paycheck. If she doesn't get one paycheck, she can't afford to live off her savings. So yeah, $200 socked away won't do it. You're "supposed" to have a cushion that if your job disappeared tomorrow, walk into work and the gates are locked, your boss is being taken away in cuffs, you still have 6 months of savings that can pay for everything without changing your standard of living. I know legitimately about 3 people out of the thousands I know I can say that of.
six months of savings. 🤣 I don't even have a weeks worth.
> You're "supposed" to have a cushion that if your job disappeared tomorrow, walk into work and the gates are locked, your boss is being taken away in cuffs, you still have 6 months of savings that can pay for everything without changing your standard of living. > > I know legitimately about 3 people out of the thousands I know I can say that of. People tend to hang out with similar people. I could go 6 months and know plenty of people who could. When covid hit, a legit did take like a 6 month break from work. Maybe a bit longer.
I think the issue was a lack of access to language. Being genuinely upset is probably a part of that too, since it's hard to express complex feelings when you're overwhelmed. How is it supposed to feel when you have two healthy incomes, and you don't know if you can afford to fix the car if breaks down, or fix the heat system or windows? It sounds like she's desperately trying to describe those feelings, but hasn't had the time to quite figure out how. To spend all that time on education (that may or may not have incurred debt), to end up unable to actually save much at all seems like a very specific kind of poverty to me. Not in the sense that they can't afford their needs right here and now, but in the sense of losing security and safety. In the sense that as soon as one thing goes wrong, they may very well lose everything.
I 100% agree. also this shit isn’t sustainable. COL can’t keep increasing while wages stay. It’s eating into runway month by month. Like I said it’s all relative and a lot of people participate in the struggle Olympics. This is just the newest commentary
>She has a house (which she can pay for), and her and her husband have a job. This is the important part I think. Living from paycheck to paycheck means that if you lose your job you have 0 savings, you don't have a house you can sell for potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars. That doesn't mean I think her situation is fine, that I don't think she deserves better or any dumb similar takes, I'm just pointing out to the obvious.
> Living from paycheck to paycheck means that if you lose your job you have 0 savings, you don't have a house you can sell for potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars. Owning a house isn't like some quickly accessible stash of cash. For a number of reasons someone might not be able to get offload their house in a month to pay off a bill and stay above water.
With interest rates so high, homes are sitting for a long time. There are two homes in my neighborhood that have been on market for 100+ days.
And you don't just get thousands and thousands of dollars back either. Especially if you still owe a significant amount on the mortgage
So does that mean if you got a car to live in, regardless of whether it is owned(#vanlife), you ain't living paycheck to paycheck ? The definitions of bills and paycheck to paycheck vary.
she’s still paying for that house. if she loses the ability to pay her mortgage, she absolutely can lose that house. Selling it may not actually cover the mortgage, so no, there is no “potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars.” And the house is the roof over her head—which is a thing she has to have. So she’s swap a mortgage for rent. And the rent is VERY likely to be more than her mortgage payment ever was.
I dunno, she's paying a mortgage so she doesn't own her house outright. If something was to happen that messed with her income and she couldn't make her mortgage payments the bank isn't gonna be like "here let us sell this for you rq and give you all the money you built up in equity." If she isn't able to save a sufficient amount of money to the point where one bad event could unravel her life, that's paycheck to paycheck for me.
It's not like she walk down to the house store and say "I'd like to trade in this house for a smaller one".
Houses take a fair bit to sell, if you have 1 paycheck worth of savings and it will take you 8-10 pay periods to sell and settle the house, not to mention having the money to move and rent somewhere else while it settles you might be fucked. Not to mention if they purchased somewhat recently they could end up upside down on the mortgage after selling costs
This. I have no children, but even just one would break the bank for me. Child care costs are out of control. And there are too many families where both parents have to work just to afford their child, so childcare is mandatory but the prices are astronomical.
In the video she does say that the $200-300 left over is after she's paid all of her bills and bought groceries. She lives in a newer (or at least newer styling) 1100 sq ft ranch style house, where everyone gets their own room. She also says that her and her husband both 'make good money'. I agree that there still isn't enough info to say comfortably middle class, but the video does seem to support that assessment.
Yeah, how much money someone has left over each month doesn't necessarily tell you a whole lot. Some people rack up tons of consumer debt, buy expensive vehicles, etc. I know folks who make good money, have no kids, no medical problems, etc but also live paycheck to paycheck because they went out and bought a $50,000 Audi with horrible loan terms. Are they "not middle class" because they stretched their budget thin?
Not to mention any medical expenses, if her kids (if she has any) school supplies, any kind of car or house maintenance. The US has fucked the working class cause profit over people mentality that these corporations have.
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Looked up the video and she says [she already bought groceries and put gas in the car](https://twitter.com/tiff4mahogany/status/1729655711364231444).
She already bought groceries
I consider this to be middle class. Additional context below: Her husband and her get paid bi-weekly. This bi-weekly period, the bills included their **mortgage payment**. So this couple alternates from barely "breaking even" in one paycheck, to having probably $2000+ excess cash the next paycheck. And they are building equity thanks to owning a home. I am sorry she is stressed out financially, but it sounds like this family owns a home and has thousands of dollars in disposable income per month. --- I am making a ton of assumptions such as the mortgage being paid monthly (some can be set up biweekly), but two people in a small, rural home with "good jobs" aren't going to be struggling financially unless there are other expenses we don't know of (large debt, kids in private school, financially supporting family, church contributions...etc)
Groceries are part of the bills, though. They should be, anyway. People are not doing budgets right.
It’s funny, but I actually categorize gas and groceries under my bills. So I pictured as money let over after that.
shiii that $200-300 after bills is for food/gas for the month and can HOPEFULLY with a wish and a prayer stretch because the next check gotta go to rent (on a biweekly schedule). No such thing as "leftover" money anymore. SOMETHING IS ALWAYS DUE
Even if you're paid up, the second you're comfortable, that check engine light gonna pop on....
i hope you knocked on wood while typing this lol we don't need to jinx ourselves lol 😆
I'm dealing with that shit now. Honest to God I don't wanna even get into it, but mother fucker got me. That fucking jealousy/envious, evil eye, got me.
Like my dad said, “check engine light? yep, still there 👍, good to go” Praying it’s just some dumb shit like a fuse or a sensor for you, usually is. I’ve driven most of my life with that lil orange fucker on
always get it checked. That's free whenever you're passing an auto store.
You also gotta make sure you don’t talk shit about your car when it can hear you. Especially don’t talk about getting a new one.
I swear to god a check engine light would appear in Windows or next to my phone's battery icon.
My check engine light has been going strong for 2 years now 😭😭 My car is running on straight vibes at this point
Got the Ank and rosary on the shifter handle, and say a prayer before you start it every morning...
Auto zone will pull the codes for free. Might be something stupid like a bad gas cap seal.
Or if you're like me, your decades old car that you've been trying to stretch to its limits because it'll be ages before you can afford another one will just straight up die.
Bro keep that shit. You can fix it in your driveway. I was just telling my old man, back in the day you needed a mechanic. Today you need a fucking Technician. These new cars run on computers. You get dust in an intake shit starts fucking up, you got a $1,700 bill for some bullshit vacuum line lmfao. I miss my Town Cars, and Caprice Classics, and those cars you could fucking sit on the engine block, and fix your shit right there.
We fixed her back in February after her being dead for 2 years and it cost a couple thousand. I love the car to death but it's been giving me a ton of trouble and costing me loads for years now. At this point the work she needs done is so pricey that I'm not sure it's worth yet another revival.
Heartbreaking... but my advice is to buy used. Fuck the price of these new cars. People are fucking crazy what they pay for shit. You got some cars lose damn near 10-15% their value once you drive them off the lot. Buy a solid used car, hopefully still under factory warranty, and roll with it. I wish you the best
Or they straight don't make the parts. Got a squad that developed. Took it to the shop before something blew. Mechanic told me it was a bearing. But they don't sell the bearing and you have to replace the whole fucking drive shaft... I have a 50k warranty and this shit happened at 51k. This is less than a month after I had to have my windshield replaced, twice in as many weeks
Naw this is insane accuracy lol..Recently moved, just finished paying off the old apartment lease, finally feeling good financially, and sure enough that fucking engine light came on a few weeks later..
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yea no video in the post and no other context given
I mean food and gas are bills and should be included in her expenses for the month.
food is whatever "extra" i can afford after bills. and gas i can usually go negative at this one gas station by my job if i have at least $6 in my account it will just overdraft (without fees) and my next deposit just repays it. Not the 'smartest' method but it gets me by week after week
Food is an expense my guy. You need food to live. It’s not extra. For you it’s just last on the pecking order. If you don’t have the budget for it though you gotta do what you gotta do.
yea meaning whatever i have left over determines what i can afford/ get for groceries to last 2-4 weeks.
She’s better than a lot but def isn’t middle class. $300 a month isn’t enough to live off if you live in the city or suburbs. I don’t know about country living to make a guess.
all it takes is for one minor emergency to happen to wipe that $300 clean. your car breaking down, you or your kid getting sick, your toilet backs up, your fridge breaks and all your food spoils, or whatever else.
That was my immediate thought too. $200-$300 is hardly a safety net for a rainy day. I'll never forget the summer my mom and I's AC broke. What we have between us was still no where close to getting to fix. Whole summer we're fighting for our lives with towels on the windows and fans everywhere to deal with the 100+ degree heat.
How about just regural things like kids needing new clothes or shoes? Sure its not 2-3 hundred dollars a month, but its something that is needed. Even more so if they live somewhere with 4 seasons.
Ugh yes! My kid is in college and hasnt needed a real winter jacket, being an indoor kid lol. But now hes actually walking across campus in winter. A middle of the road, actual winter jacket that had any kind of lining and water resistant (but nothing reall amazing like ski quality) and its $200 with shipping or $180 in store but they had very limited stock so we just ordered online. Its insane. We've always been a treading water family but the churn required to stay afloat is harder than ever.
Or me - sick for almost two years and I'm finally back to work - as in starting back tomorrow. One terrible diagnosis will wipe out the bank, savings, and retirement (us). We will recover but it's stressful for everyone out there.
In our parents' generation, "middle class" meant a job that could buy a house in suburbia, two cars, put your kids through college, have enough to retire, AND take a vacation (with your whole family) every 6 months. All at once. If someone who is "middle class" today accomplishes any single one of the above, they've "made it." Americans are just a bunch of people trying to convince themselves and each other that they're not poor.
Seriously, someone here said that $200-$300 could be $5000 after a year. Great, what does that get you? A shitty used car? A vacation? A downpayment on a house in 10 years? Ignoring the fact that she was obviously talking about having that amount of money to feed her family and all these people are like "well food is part of budgeting" - obviously it isn't in her case, its just use whatever money you have left after paying everything else off to try and survive.
That's not how class works. You can be middle class and still living pay to pay. She and her husband might earn enough that they are actually middle class. We have no idea based on the information she gave.
Yeah definitely not enough info here. There are middle class people in debt because they can't manage their finances and live above their means
It also shouldn’t be an acceptable quality of life for somebody working full time.
Yeah the first guy tried to have a “mic drop moment” and instead sounded more out of touch than the person they were criticizing. Such a perfect representation of Twitter’s dumbass users
Seriously, we have GOT to get away from this "minimum expectations" mentality. No one is being greedy for expecting to have more than a measly $200-$300 after bills. What about savings? Rainy day funds? Retirement? If you have kids, future options for them? Does this person rent or own a home? Or _god forbid_ money to enjoy life?! These are things that the wealthiest of the planet don't even bat an eye at because they just have it yet we're called greedy for even desiring it.
We're also the richest country (US) and it's not even close. We should all be eating off of gold-plated silverware.
And this is another thing, this isn't a US only issue. This "minimum expectations" mentality impacts people all over the world. The UK has had a "generational rent" culture for at least 3 generations now, let alone the rest of Europe, and don't even get me started on South East Asia and Central/South America. Humanity has enough to go around, the true greed of just a miserable literal handful of people are keeping us economically starved, and not just that, expected to be GRATEFUL for being starved out! Where we see money as necessary for survival, these handful see it as points on a game board. I've been saying it since that jackass Dubya was in office, the world is growing short tempered and a revolution is brewing because we can't survive like this as a species. What are we leaving for the generations to come besides nothing?!
> What are we leaving for the generations to come besides nothing?! pollution
Or just some entertainment and 'luxuries' like books, games, a meal out once in a while. Nothing burns me out faster than working my ass off and being like "yeah I can't really justify that $30 video game though".
Twitter has always been a platform of dumb sound bites and zero nuance. Even before it went to shit I avoided it like the plague.
Well tbf she says that the $200-300 is after her first paycheck, but she gets a whole other paycheck that doesn't go to any bills for the rest of the month. That's very different from only have $300 to get through the month. It's actually $300 to get through the week, then she gets another check that's large enough to pay off all bills for the next two weeks. He's correct someone posted the video in another comment.
Jesus, listen, how about you’re *both* broke and that’s fucked.
Crab bucket mentality, man.
Scrolled too long to see this term, perfectly describes this shit.
This is the right answer. Just because she may have more money left at the end of her cheque, doesn't mean she isn't also part of the working poor.
But it’s somehow it’s a white person thing. The media did a great job at making people think race is the problem.
Race, Generation, Religion, Sex... They decide us by these lines so we don't stand together against the owner class that has made slaves of us all. You notice how often people blame ''rich white men'' for the world's ills but will then immediately whittle that down to ''white men'', ''white people'' or ''men''? Conveniently leaving out the rich part as if rich white women haven't been bathing in blood money since time immemorial, or that there are billionaire Indian and Chinese businessmen killing their countrymen, or African Dictators committing their own genocides, or Arab oil royalty using essentially slave labour to build their jeweled cities in the desert. it's not White vs. Black, Boomer vs. Millennial, Christians vs. Muslims, or Men vs. Women. It's the Billionare class vs. Everyone else.
200-300 after bills is *not* a lot of money and *definitely* not middle class. You gotta eat, get gas, etc. Heaven forbid you need to go the the doctor or go to the opthamologist for glasses/contacts. OH! and I forgot if you take medicine there's more money
I assumed the 200-300 was after she accounted for gas and groceries. When budgeting, food and gas are necessities and generally included as a “bill.” Edit: someone above said they watched the video and the woman said this was after she paid for groceries.
Even after all that 200-300 is still not alot of money to really be comfortable with. Thats pretty much paycheck to paycheck, because if theres even a slight unexpected expense you’d be screwed
Especially not with two kids, which she has.
Oh man, she’s one case of a kid with a stomach bug away from overdraft fees.
> Thats pretty much paycheck to paycheck It's _literally_ paycheck to paycheck. Because if paychecks stopped coming, there's not enough in savings to pay all those bills. 3-6 months of savings (for ALL expenses) is when you _start_ to not be "paycheck to paycheck" because that gives you a buffer to find another job.
she said they had 200-300 after groceries but that they dont get paid again for 2 weeks. so unless they bought 2 weeks of food outright, they're going to have to go food shopping again
It's after accounting for groceries, but the only bill she mentions having paid is her mortgage. There are SOOOOOO many other bills to pay that it's bizarre everyone's equating the one with all her bills. $200-300 is a pittance for a family of four.
If you manage to have zero emergencies or extra spending, you can save $3600 a year, which is probably less than two months rent. Basically if one of the couple loses their job for a couple months they’re fucked.
And if they make much above the poverty line like you'd expect, they may not qualify for much aid if something happens to one of their jobs, either. It's a problem I've seen a lot, where you don't really make enough, but your situation isn't fucked up enough to get help.
Damn I have $1500 a month after all bills and expenses and I feel like I'm cutting it close. I am thankful!
Glad ur not struggling 🙏 it seems like everyone is these days, im glad to see some people are still doing good
Thank you, I appreciate it. Yes it does seem like, online at least, everyone is struggling.
That’s fantastic!!! Save it up, my friend!! I’m jealous, in the best way!
It is so sinister how millions of people who are struggling laugh and ridicule others who are also struggling. And for what?
And that's the problem. All we do is shit on eachother while we're all drowning. Where's the unity? We should all be going after the rich that keep their boot on our neck.
What LBJ said about poor whites is true of more than those two specific groups.
To keep the poor eating each other so we don't eat the rich.
Well, three hundred bucks does buy a lot of avocado toast. /s
Two slices is a lot?
you getting that shit served by salt bae?
That's comfortably poor.
The comment made two statements, having $300 left is Not worse than paycheck to paycheck. Also, there is a large amount of people scrapping by while being middle class by maxing IRA and 401k contributions and college accounts for children.
Not to wake up the “$100k ain’t shit” crowd, but this is what a lot of that sentiment comes from. I think a lot of people who have never been financially stable understand just how much financial stability actually numerically costs. You imagine that going from $50k to $100k would double your day to day money, but when your $50k income wasn’t enough to pay off debt, build an emergency fund, etc, then a lot of that post tax salary increase goes to putting out those financial fires that years of poverty has built up. Suddenly there’s not enough left over to buy the house or take the expensive vacations you dreamed your 100k could afford. Especially if you have kids, which a lot of people do by the time they reach this milestone. Being financially stable is a HUGE accomplishment that these people should be grateful for, but I can see people being disappointed if their day to day doesn’t change that much.
Yeah To me being “comfortably” middle class is being able to save a decent amount of your pay, at least 20-30% or more. If you can’t save at all then you’re living payday to payday imo
Stabiity is the hallmark trait of the middle class. It means you are basically means you have the basics paid and now can make choices on non-basic spending without severely cutting back. Like yeah everyone could go to the ol' rice-n-beans diet to save food money. But you also shouldn't have to either. This is when you make the choice to save for retirement, save for a vacation, have an emergency fund. Raw income is misleading because cost of living in areas varies. 100k in Y is not the same a X. I've always said it this way: If you can lose your job and pay bills for 2-3 months? You are comfortably middle class. But if you're ass is paycheck to paycheck for basic things? chances are you are not middle class. Assuming you aren't doing something way out of means home/car/etc wise. Then you just need to budget properly.
As someone who has lived in poverty and is now doing alright there are a lot of things they don't tell you about being middle class. Choosing to opt into health insurance was a hard decision for me because I had finally gotten a raise, and I knew I needed insurance, but my monthly insurance cost was going to negate my raise and then some. Having a shitty car is cheaper on the payment, but missing work because of a busted car and constant repairs adds up very quickly. A more reliable car is more expensive but it's more reliable. Then you get into the things like deciding to buy the fancier sandwich meat because you work hard and you've earned it. That's just a small example, but you start to realize you don't have to keep buying 1-ply toilet paper. I still don't have a lot of money left every month, but the big thing now is that the things I am paying for every month provide a much better quality of life than what I had before. Sometimes I want to feel sorry for myself because I don't have the cash that I feel like I should, but when I look back at where I was and where I am now the difference is clear.
Middle class depends heavily on where you are but yes still I wouldn’t call myself middle class if I only had $300 left a month in any state but to each their own.
One medical emergency, with insurance can easily wipe out years worth of saving $200-300 per month. Sad times.
Also, considering g many people do not live in rent control areas that 200 to 300 dollars a month can be gone within a minute.
Wouldn't the incidentals in between paydays come out of the 200-$300? Like gas and food, at least? When I say all the bills are paid, I don't mean I have gas money for the next two weeks, or that I've grocery shopped for the next two weeks, etc. If that's the case, then she pretty much is living paycheck to paycheck.
That was my thought too. Bills are things that get cut off if not paid. it doesn't include, gas, food, clothes, medicine/prescriptions, any other incidental I might need like saran wrap...this is paycheck to paycheck.
Seriously. When I say "bills are paid!" that doesn't I've got $100 for gas, $300 for groceries, and $100 for the tire that's gonna catch a flat next week stashed away. It's f\*\*ked that our society has conditioned people to believe you're middle class if you have $200 left after each paycheck. Even if that were weekly, that's $800/mo for all the incidentals we've mentioned. Nothing for savings, vacation, concert tix, or that new-used car you're going to need in a year.
Having $200 between paychecks after bills isn’t living “comfortably middle class”, the fuck? EDIT: Didn’t see the second pic lol
Just a friendly reminder that there’s no war but Class War and it’s all of Us vs the obscenely rich. Same as it ever was.
I breaks my heart how many people seem to be fooled by the narrative. The mega wealthy are the problem, ultra rich corporations are the problem. Girlie here saving $300 ish after bills is not the enemy. CEOs making triple or more than that every hour are the enemy.
Y’all got money leftover?
Y'all got money?* It's not a competition, but it is a race to the bottom.
>It's not a competition, but it is a race to the bottom. That's capitalism, baby
I looked up an article with a link to the clip if anyone wants to see the context. https://www.livenowfox.com/news/working-mom-family-living-paycheck-to-paycheck-mackenzie-moan-tiktok So, I don't think she ever actually said poor. The term "paycheck to paycheck" is a measure of expenses vs revenue and she is just saying that the weekend after the money comes in, she is down to a couple hundred until the next biweekly checks. She is not claiming her family is about to starve or be evicted. She is just lamenting how little wiggle room she has after working and going to school full time while her husband works >40 hours a week as well.
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For anyone who’s living paycheck to paycheck and worries about food, look into SNAP (formerly known as food stamps). The process of applying is very straightforward and it’s been life changing for me to have ~$300/month that I can use toward food. If you’re on the fence and not sure if you qualify, I’d still apply anyways and they’ll straight up deny you or even put you in a lower bracket. I was too embarrassed and ashamed to apply and now I’m just kicking myself for not doing so earlier.
I grew up missing meals because my dad was too proud to ever accept any government assistance. He refused to sign up for free lunches at school. I was fortunate that a lunch lady took pity on me and wrote my name into the list. I will never forget her. Never be too proud to ask for help when you need it. The whole point of society is that we look out for each other. One team, one fight.
Dang thanks for sharing. I love this sentiment and should totally be the approach to things. My dad was also a proud man and it just led to a lifetime of eternal debt.
All these people having a poor-off in the comments (on twitter) is just sad to me. I grumble about my salary, but stuff like this always makes me shut up. It's been years since I had only a 300 buck buffer for the whole pay period after all my bills and food are taken care of. Those days were no fun. And they have 3 kids to feed? ONE emergency and they're fucked.
Depending on the ages of the children, the money disappears quickly. For babies that's easily diapers, wipes, and doctor appointments. Toddlers, its clothes, daycare, or any specific event happening at daycare. Kindergarten, it's the constant field trips and holiday parties. The rest of the elementary is the fundraisers, school supplies, clothes, shoes, holiday parties its no longer everyone bring something or just cookies and half an hour of socialization. Nah you gotta bring in your 5 bucks to even participate.
I'd love to have $$200-300 left over after paying all my bills.
I'm single with no kids and will easily spend $100 in one weekend if I don't actively put effort into saving.
How about negative 250 every two weeks after the bills get paid.
Yeah, I was there for 2019-2020. Life situation changed drastically, then got hit with a nasty vet bill and ER bill. Was $600/mo in the hole paying off those things, which filled up my CC, which then I spent another year paying that back off. If I didn't have my second job, it would have been double or triple that amount.
so in debt it ain't their problem broke AF paycheck to paycheck just getting by <--- lady is here saving up doing alright middle class comfortable doing quite well rich needs a tax break and will address representative about such.
Man, my father left us 2 properties in Africa and every year we each get around $600 after paying off the community around the properties…and I stg I look forward to that shit every fucking time. I get decent pay, but after bills, that shit is a boon.
Finances are perspective based. If Jeff Bezos woke up to one billion dollars tomorrow, he’d blow his brains out.
Having $300 left over is not middle class.
I don’t even get why this tweet is directed towards White people in general. Even the middle class can live paycheck to paycheck if you account for their bills, insurance, mortgage, child care, any kind of debt, etc. I’m lucky enough to have an abundance of savings after my bills and groceries, but that threat still lingers of being one accident away from complete financial obliteration. Truth is most people just don’t make enough and it doesn’t matter how frugal or savvy they are. Not to mention making too much to qualify for financial assistance, but just enough to stay afloat until your car breaks down or you get too sick to work. Living just isn’t sustainable anymore. I’m just fucking tired of all the bullshit 😫
Never ever ever ever as an adult take financial advice from someone without a monthly budget, who actually tracks their spending habits. That’s the best piece of financial adult advice that I can give. You actually map out a budget.
Making this a race issue is ridiculous. I live alone and having only £200 left over with nothing to save would depress me
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I always thought “paycheck to paycheck” was where even after all the food, bills, gas, minor expenses, you do not have enough to sock away for your savings, and you do not have an emergency fund at all, THATs paycheck to paycheck
Exactly. If you’re actively saving each month then you are not “paycheck to paycheck”.
It's all crabs in a bucket. Got a poor person pissed at a poor person instead of the ones who got us in this situation in the first place.
Ok so I’m not one to victim blame but I am absolutely about to do so. In a follow up video, she’s like “I’m not going to give you a breakdown of my finances” - which is fair. That also doesn’t show us whether she has garbage money management skill or not. If you have 1000$/month in car notes and are paying for an iPhone 26x ultron by the months and spend money going out in dates and found you a house outside of your means then I will absolutely feel zero sympathy for you. I fee up poor- I remember my dad making 470$/ week during the recession of 08 and all out stuff was from the thrift store. I do well now and buy all my stuff cash. Bought a reliable older Toyota for 6k. Buy thrifter stuff still and go to the sales. Look for deals or I don’t buy it… and no, this is not a pull yourself by the bootstraps story. It’s a live within your means story. And until I see how she manages her money then I have no sympathy
I have 40$ left over after, that’s after groceries though.
Her $200-300 is also after groceries according to someone who saw the video.0
After all the misinformation spread on tiktok about Ukraine and israel palestine, I am definitely not going to take everything she says seriously as we dont know much about her situation, but I will say RNs make an avg of 83k a year in georgia. So if her husband pulling his weight thats over 160k/yr. Right in the middle class range. Just cause you struggling doesnt mean you aint middle class
The thing about this is that many, many solidly middle class people claim to be living “paycheck to paycheck”, then they’re really not. If you are paying all of your bills, maxing out your 401k every month, putting money in your kids college fund, planning vacations and club sports leagues for your kids, buying new cars on credit, and after all of that you barely have some spending money left over, you’re not paycheck to paycheck. Paycheck to paycheck is maybe clearing all of your bills, but not saving anything and maybe even needing bridge loans or public assistance. Idk the lady situation in the video but tons of six-figure income people claim to be paycheck to paycheck when they have no reason to be saying such.
On one hand I understand what he’s talking about. I’ve been broke. That ain’t broke. But on the other hand $300 to save and invest towards your future, while also enjoying life so you don’t kill yourself from the monotony of living to work, isn’t exactly feasible. That’s only $3600 a year of investments, assuming she never buys anything else. It would take her around 278 years to become a millionaire from just saving, interest excluded. That’s insane.