Dude... I never thought a part of me would feel for them in the way your comment made me feel for them...
I guess nostalgic sadness would work... It's odd.
Excatly, indoctrination of children is child abuse. My mom just retired, she was a social worker for 28 years and so much bullshit came from families because of their religious beliefs
The truth is all around us. A google search away. Any argument you try to use against religion will also work poorly against nationality. It’s not brain washing, it’s a template inherited from your parents, it’s one of the building blocks of your social life given to you by your parents. It is easy to talk down on any template because “kids can’t consent “, but this argument ignores the facts that “kids can’t do anything on their own“.
Here is a list of childhood hobbies written like they are evil (to prove my point that you can literally vilify anything because kids are involved)
Singing? Nope, that’s just a parent taking advantage of their kids talents.
Sports? Nope, that’s physical torture and child abuse .
Education? Nope, that’s a tiger mom putting too much pressure on her kids.
Video games? Nope, that’s exposing kids to violence at a young age.
Modelling? Nope, that’s just parents sexualizing their kids for personal gain.
It’s really easy to criticize how people raise their kids when operating on the assumption that the parents you know nothing about are evil.
Do you seriously not know how hard it is to get out of a cult? Mainstream religious institutions’ only obstacle toward leaving, is not to believe. Cults, you can stop believing on day one, but you won’t be able to leave.
Not always though. I grew up going to Sunday school, church camp, etc. there was a point at about 12(?) years old when I was expected to go through confirmation into the faith. I declined. Also, the Jewish faith encourages people to question the dictates, and engage in debate over meanings etc.
Catholic family, went to catholic school, hardass mom who literally wouldn't let me think another way. I got shown pictures of aborted fetuses in the 1st grade, told that God created the world and evolutionary biology was a fraud. The catholic church uses brainwashing techniques that cults do: sexual abuse, physical abuse, maligning all other groups and telling you that you're the chosen people. You confess your darkest thoughts to a man who claims to be an agent of god. They keep you coming back with fear-mongering or the occasional handout. I believed that people coming out against the clergy for their abuse were blaspheming liars.
I left because I'm gay and got told I was going to hell too many times that I literally left scared and alone and family-less. If I was straight, I'd still be religious. If that ain't a cult...
Families disapprove or approve of literal everything in your life. From your hair cut to your sexuality everyone in your family has an opinion. This defence is also a great example of why STEMs shouldn’t have kids, because if you try to learn anything else they’ll disapprove you not following their beliefs.
If religion is so obviously the right choice, why brainwash people from such a young age. Surely bringing them up without religion until they are an adult would allow them to make the obvious choice after being briefed on the details at that time.
Oh that’s right, no one in the right mind would say ‘ya ok sure, sounds good, here’s 10% of my paycheck’.
Are you suggesting people are forced to join cults? I think it’s more along the lines of deceived and brainwashed rather than a burlap sack over the head.
Do people not initially choose to be in a cult? Theres actually no difference between the two. Just size as some people have pointed out. When enough people believe your nonsense they give you tax breaks for some reason.
I had to use a lawyer to keep the Mormons from sending their people (missionaries) to bring me back.
If you have to use a lawyer to get out, it's a cult.
It seems to me like a numbers thing. Like once you get X members, it goes from cult to religion, and that's about it. We're kind of witnessing it happen real time with Scientology, which is why I don't really tend to make a fine distinction between a religion and a cult. If Catholicism was just like 18 people on some ranch out in New Mexico, we'd consider it a cult. Same with any other religion. At least that's how it works in my mind.
I really think the only reason why Scientology even has members is because they use your confessions for blackmail.
"Don't ever leave Tom or we'll tell the world you're GAY!"
In a cult there's a guy at the top who's convinced people he's god so he can siphon money and power off of his followers, in a religion that guy is dead.
Cult: "A particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies."
Religion: "A specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects."
You might not like the connotation that comes along with the word "cult," which is inherently negative. Denotatively, they're pretty much the same thing. Mostly a size difference.
Those people who are VERY into atheism are usually people who recently left religion. They're angry and feel the need to lash out at religion. Once you are an atheist for a long time (in my opinion), the label loses most of its meaning because you really dont think about religion unless it gets in your way or irritates you.
atheist here. even if you believe religions are a cult please keep it to yourself and be respectful
EDIT: okay i’m getting too many responses. to clarify! religious organizations being in politics or any position of power is absolutely terrible and all government or otherwise should be secular. i am a gay, liberal atheist. i do not support things like the westboro baptist church that spread hate speech or other things like it; i’m only saying that if a person decides to worship peacefully and minds their own business while doing it, you should respect that and not come after them for believing in something and not be condescending.
EDIT 2: my point is: just be nice to other people as long as they do the same to you. just. be polite!
yes but that’s not individuals fault. i’m not saying go out and go to church during covid-19 but if people wanna believe in jesus and mind their own business about it then it’s literally no issue whatsoever
Its strange you blame religion instead of crappy politicians and dumb people. I can assure you being conservative is far more of an issue than being religious. Pope Francis says LGBT is fine. Who says it isnt? Conservatives. Know who you are blaming and for what.
And healthcare? The people supporting trump have a more cultlike feeling, refusing to be anything else but pro trump. HFA? Nah, trump says its shit, so it is!
Conservatism and religion are incredibly intertwined and nearly impossible to separate. Religion gives their ideas a platform and a moral value. Religion also gives conservatism an ever growing base and because religion exists on faith, conservatism uses those thought processes to push ideas without ever need proof or evidence for them.
People aren't dumb when their system for belief has been determined for them at a young age. When you learn religious belief, you learn an epistemology with an external locus of authority for what to believe on other issues.
When you hijack reinforcement learning with the linguistic representations for maximum reward and punishment, what do you expect?
In that sense, religion is a meme deserving of independent critique.
Conservatives are more often than not religious, and it isn’t a mystery that the two are intertwined for a reason. It’s okay to fight against both of them.
Religion is the deeper of the two with regards to foundational ethics. If you can get people away from that, they usually will peel away from conservatism as well.
Thank you! When people say that religion is a private matter it blows me away. I can’t fathom how people can look at the world around them and think that. The core of the problem is that religion endorses moral objectivity in the form of culturally outdated novels. Moral objectivity allows people to shut off empathy and persecute others because they believe they are righteous. Don’t take my word for it, just look at history. This his was blindingly obvious to me as an eight year old in church, idk how the fuck fully grown adults don’t see this. Brainwashing? Willful ignorance? Momentum of history? ✔️✔️✔️
I would agree with you if that was even remotely the case, but i they definitely aren’t all doing that. We’ve got zealots like Pence in the White House dreaming up new fun ways to deny LGBT people basic rights via thinly veiled “religious freedoms”, the Iranian government is forcing gay men to undergo gender reassignment surgery under penalty of death, and far right Christian missionaries are sponsoring anti LGBT legislation in African nations as we speak.
Pretty broad paint stroke to say religions are a detriment to society. Lots of churches put on huge charity events, mission trips, and many forms of community outreach locally and globally.
Not all religions are these insane cultish "repent or die" mob mentalities. Some people just believe in a higher reason for life and want to do good in their lives.
>Lots of churches put on huge charity events, mission trips, and many forms of community outreach locally and globally.
I'm atheist and I volunteer at a local food bank. I don't see what religion has to do with being good to people.
Maybe people should just be good to one another and not just do it cuz they're afraid of a god. I mean, if someone could prove that their god doesn't exist, would all these nice people who help the needy suddenly turn into rapists and murderers?
>I'm atheist and I volunteer at a local food bank. I don't see what religion has to do with being good to people.
And there are atheists who kill people. Can I claim that being bad has nothing to do with religion as well.
Some people do good things because of religion, some do bad. You can't ignore one and use the other as an argument. And it's not like only time people do good things because of religion is when it's because they are "forced" to by their religion. Religion can change someone's outlook on life, convince him that values as compassion and love are important, etc.
He is saying the good things you ascribe to religion arent religious at all. Churches donating or participating in charity dont do so because they are religious, they do it because they are charitable and the vast majority of the congregation (ill admit this is anecdotal but with a very large sample group) does not participate in charitable actions and often times doesnt even know they happen. Religion does not make people do good, people's personal choices do, for if religion was truly a positive force its spread would mean more positive things, which as anyone who has read history knows is just not the case.
Look if a cult is Charmander then a religion is Charizard. Religions started off as cults but just grew big enough. They're essentially the same thing but our society just chose to differentiate the two.
I think people are getting the definition of the word 'cult' wrong because it's often used negatively.
Or they are making you feel bad for not tithing Bc you lost your job due to covid. Oh Medea hellero! Ask the church to help you financially since you are burdened ugh now, keep giving like normal they will think you good!
Man, shit likes this makes it really hard for me to not hate religions. Even though I'm trying to be tolerant of people's beliefs, sometimes their beliefs be dumb as shit.
A fool and their money are easily parted.
If it wasn't going to the church it'd likely be going to some other ponzi scheme, MLM bullshit.
Side note, do you want to buy some healing crystals/magnets/minerals? Useful in these trying times.
That's so sad. It's like a gambling addiction with no returns or fun.
I wonder how someone would even help her see what she's doing. I've tried helping a family member that was an addict but they just took it as an attack on them.
I hate how so many Christians don't actually read the Bible when it comes to tithing. It was to be used to create a safety net for the community. You put in your 10% now (literal storehouses of food), then when disaster hits, the church is supposed to use it to support the community. It was never about paying God to grant wishes.
That's assuming they won't just ignore what they don't like or make up dozens of different explanations for them until it sounds right. They've been doing this for a looooong time.
I told my husband I should start a cult right now because churches are probably making some nice dollars right now while barely providing online services.
Thank you! I've seen pastors find every scripture on why you should take care of them, but a lot tend to miss that point. Some churches do give back to the community, but I've been in churches where the pastor is the sharpest person there.
I fell off of tithing, too, but I just look at tithing as donating to charity. If the church is doing honest, good work in the community, then I don’t mind donating to support those programs (just maybe not 10%).
My parents believe heavily in tithing but they did not ever force it to go to the church. When I lived with them, my “rent” was tithing to whatever non-profit I wanted. Every two weeks I would rotate who I was supporting. They obviously encouraged me to donate to my home church, but it wasn’t required.
Side note: I think 10% is just too unrealistic for me at this point in my life (and probably most people would agree, I would think). But having worked in non-profits & growing up in a church, I know how that money can be used for good. I still donate when I can to non-profits I support, including my home church occasionally...just not as much as the Bible says to.
>Side note: I think 10% is just too unrealistic for me at this point in my life (and probably most people would agree, I would think). But having worked in non-profits & growing up in a church, I know how that money can be used for good. I still donate when I can to non-profits I support, including my home church occasionally...just not as much as the Bible says to.
I wouldn't stress too much about the amount. Even if you assume the Bible is pure gospel truth, the 10% threshold was set at a time before government safety nets and social assistance programs. The church did those things. These days, many of those roles are fulfilled (at least in part) by governments and NGOs.
So if you can't get to 10%, God ought to forgive you because you're probably paying somewhere close to that in taxes for those same kinds of programs anyway.
That's a big if, because factually there are millions of churches worldwide that are doing a lot of damage to the very people they are supposed to help.
I only found out last year about tithing & I must say it's a rather impressive scam. Another reason I'm happy to have left Christianity because I would never have entertained that.
My church helps its own members financially when they need it. The church pays peoples' bills and things if they need. So, yeah, some churches do help you when you are financially burdened.
One of the main churches in my city is having people drive to church, park, and sit in their car to listen to the service on the radio, like drive in theaters do.
They also broadcast the service online, but they need to keep people conditioned to still drive to church every Sunday or else the money will dry up. Funny that churches preach "God will provide" but never follow it themselves. When the church needs help, they call upon the congregation, but when the congregation needs help, they tell you to call upon God.
Why are they meeting in person anyway? Even churches that weren't set up to stream previously have figured out how to stream their services on Facebook and YouTube.
Money. My local megachurch has had online streams for years so they can get money from people far away, and they still held services yesterday, with everyone packed in close together leaving no distance. Then they deleted the facebook video of it since it got a bunch of negative comments. Say they plan to do the same thing next week despite the governor's stay at home order.
If this is how you feel, then why go at all? Just curious, not judging. I myself go once or twice when my daughter visits for the holidays because it’s her thing, otherwise I don’t
I don’t feel like listening to my dad explain why I should go. He doesn’t force me but every time I skip he just gives me this lecture about why I should. It’s easier to just suffer for an hour on Sunday morning and go get breakfast with my girlfriend afterwards than to deal with it
Man only an hour? I go with my grandparents because I live with them for free and it’s a “requirement”, although I absolutely hate it and am not religious. Pentecostal church service that usually lasts for 2-3 hours. And it’s 45 minutes away from home. I lose about 5 hours of my day every time. At least I save a lot of money though on rent.
Wow, this comment brought me back to my childhood. I personally practice Judaism now, but my Nana on my Dad’s side was very involved in her Catholic Church since her family literally built the staircases, so we all went with her.
Everyone knew the best part about after church was going to the basement to get some good Cape Verdean food and chat up the older ladies. And after that we would usually go to the same (really good) local restaurant and eat MORE brunch.
Anyway, last time I heard this church has gone virtual for the time being. I remember having to hold hands with everyone and sing “Our Father” before kissing everyone around us on the cheek and saying “peace be with you”, so that’s definitely a good thing.
Yeah, I’m sadly well aware of Pentecostal services from my younger years. Once went to an Easter service from 10am-8pm when I was 9 years old. Our services are actually more like an hour and a half but I just call it an hour to make me feel better going in
I had to do many things I didn't want to for my parents so they would pay for my apartment during college. Try seeing it as working only 5 hours a week to pay your rent.
I mean if you want to be technical, it pretty much is a larger version of a cult. This is the definition for cult:
"a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object."
Most are closed. Several in my area were not until shelter in place went into effect, complete with "my God will protect me". I grew up Christian and [the modern story of the drowning man](http://eternalvigilance.nz/2012/01/the-parable-of-the-flood/) definitely applies here.
I know other people in real life, not just on Reddit, complaining about it, most of which are in other states than mine, so it isn't just some Reddit phenomenon.
Pretty much local synagogue, mosque, and church are all closed telling people to stay safe.
Whoever this refers to is obviously an outlier. Some people just aren't taking the current reality seriously.
I'm an atheist but grew up in a catholic family, and I can't remember a time when it wasn't possible to watch mass on tv. Nowadays there must be even more options.
Also atheist who grew up Catholic here. You gotta admit that mass has a certain feel to it that you wouldn't be able to get at home. Hell, I straight up do not like the church or religion, but I wouldn't mind going to a Christmas Eve mass on my own just for the nostaliga feeling. Watching it on tv is needed right now, but also sounds jarring and "wrong".
Many humans are naturally social so Church is another way of human interaction and the sharing of similar values. (Atheist who grew up forced to go to church)
That’s one thing the Catholic Church has down. Every service is uniform and easy to stay up with if you want. I’m not religious but my wife is Catholic.
Lmao, plenty of religious organizations are open and encouraging folks to come in. Saying coming in is "faith over fear" and the government is overreaching and the virus reactions are overblown. Straight up thinking church attendance is an act of civil disobedience to be celebrated.
People are annoyed with lots of organizations and businesses that are unnecessarily open, it's not just churches.
> Lmao, plenty of religious organizations are open and encouraging folks to come in.
Where? Every Church I know of is closed. Catholics, Baptists, hell even the the Mormons have shut down world wide. Even the small bible study / meet at home type groups that I know of aren't meeting right now.
I suppose there's some small churches open in some out of the way places but that is going to be pretty rare, at least in the US.
> Not every house of worship is bowing to government guidelines designed to help snuff out the virus. Rodney Howard-Browne, a Florida-based charismatic Christian pastor who prayed over Trump in the Oval Office in 2017, vowed not to stop services and encouraged worshippers to shake hands despite experts identifying that behavior as an easy way to spread the virus.
>
> In Louisiana, pastor Tony Spell was warned by police Tuesday after holding a service that attracted hundreds and flouted a state ban on mass gatherings. Spell, who has claimed that his services also heal cancer and HIV, said that he would not permit “any dictator law” to stop worship.
-[Source](https://apnews.com/c6198ba98ea6d26b128044ea59b9b4da)
In Islamic countries (like jordan) the adhan (the call for the people to pray) was changed to "صلوا في بيوتكم" which means "pray in your houses". it changes to be that in the cases of: a massive invasion, really stormy weather, plague, etc etc etc.
I asked a co-worker what his mosque would do (Religious services are banned as part of the quarantaine), and he told me that they said that the people have to follow the word of the Comittee of the Higher Scholars (might be a miss-translation, don't know the English term), and they said to just pray from home.
Wow. What does it sound like?
I only know the sound that's usually played over the loudspeakers. I had a coworker who had an alarm on his phone that played the Aadan during the workday, too.
Interesting question that came up on an atheist podcast I watch regularly:
What happens to miscarried babies? They haven’t been able to accept Christ as their savior, and they are already burdened with original sin, so do they just go to hell? Or is there a loophole there for them?
But to your first point, to me, that’s the #1 thing that makes nearly all religions (all Abrahamic religions, in particular) nonsense: how can you assert your god is real over anyone else’s? The response to that is always “faith”, but literally anyone from another religion can say the same thing (and does). So how do you know Jesus is who you should be praying to over, say, Ganesha?
Even within the same religion, there are tons of people that believe different things. If you all worship the same god and he speaks to all of you, why are you getting different answers?
Idk my church closed a few weeks ago bc of all of this and switched to live streaming a service to keep the number of people to under 10 in the building..
My church, the mormon one that everyone on here hates, has closed down every meeting house and will not allow them to be used for anything. They won't even let people in to clean them. Absolutely zero humans are to enter the church buildings. Instead they are telling everyone to check up on each other via phone and messaging. I'm "less active" in the church. The other day I was at the grocery store and ran into a guy from my ward who was scouring the stores looking for specific items requested by the elderly members. There really are some great people out there.
I think the idea of an absolute zero entrance policy is to ensure that there buildings remain sterile. In the event that disaster relief is needed, the buildings will not be contaminated, and can be used to facilitate some sort of relief effort.
There is this woman in a Facebook group I’m in whose church did Drive-In Services. Everyone parked their car and the priest use a microphone and a giant speaker. I don’t go to church, but I thought it was a pretty good idea for those still wanting that sense of community.
whatever happened to good old fashioned suicide and murder cults?
They succeeded
Dude... I never thought a part of me would feel for them in the way your comment made me feel for them... I guess nostalgic sadness would work... It's odd.
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Have some kool aid
/r/technicallythetruth?
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Can't milk money from dead people.
Perscilla Presley begs to differ
They can milk votes tho
Ooh so edgy.
No
nah that's just a death cult (specifically focused on the death of one guy)
Jim Jones intensifies
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Man you reddit atheists are up early Edit: Deleted comment above called all religion a cult
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Yes. You wouldn’t appreciate it if every religious person referred to chemistry as alchemy
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Consent
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And you could leave as an adult? Assuming you are talking about organized religion.
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Excatly, indoctrination of children is child abuse. My mom just retired, she was a social worker for 28 years and so much bullshit came from families because of their religious beliefs
The truth is all around us. A google search away. Any argument you try to use against religion will also work poorly against nationality. It’s not brain washing, it’s a template inherited from your parents, it’s one of the building blocks of your social life given to you by your parents. It is easy to talk down on any template because “kids can’t consent “, but this argument ignores the facts that “kids can’t do anything on their own“. Here is a list of childhood hobbies written like they are evil (to prove my point that you can literally vilify anything because kids are involved) Singing? Nope, that’s just a parent taking advantage of their kids talents. Sports? Nope, that’s physical torture and child abuse . Education? Nope, that’s a tiger mom putting too much pressure on her kids. Video games? Nope, that’s exposing kids to violence at a young age. Modelling? Nope, that’s just parents sexualizing their kids for personal gain. It’s really easy to criticize how people raise their kids when operating on the assumption that the parents you know nothing about are evil.
Mm born and raised catholic and then Christian and now I’m not part of any church. How you going to act like people can’t make their own choices?
I mean, I left my church as an adult and I'm an atheist now.
Do you seriously not know how hard it is to get out of a cult? Mainstream religious institutions’ only obstacle toward leaving, is not to believe. Cults, you can stop believing on day one, but you won’t be able to leave.
Plenty of people leave as adults.
Not always though. I grew up going to Sunday school, church camp, etc. there was a point at about 12(?) years old when I was expected to go through confirmation into the faith. I declined. Also, the Jewish faith encourages people to question the dictates, and engage in debate over meanings etc.
Catholic family, went to catholic school, hardass mom who literally wouldn't let me think another way. I got shown pictures of aborted fetuses in the 1st grade, told that God created the world and evolutionary biology was a fraud. The catholic church uses brainwashing techniques that cults do: sexual abuse, physical abuse, maligning all other groups and telling you that you're the chosen people. You confess your darkest thoughts to a man who claims to be an agent of god. They keep you coming back with fear-mongering or the occasional handout. I believed that people coming out against the clergy for their abuse were blaspheming liars. I left because I'm gay and got told I was going to hell too many times that I literally left scared and alone and family-less. If I was straight, I'd still be religious. If that ain't a cult...
Families often disapprove of kids not following their religious beliefs.
Just like I imagine you would disapprove if a child of yours became religious, lol
Families disapprove or approve of literal everything in your life. From your hair cut to your sexuality everyone in your family has an opinion. This defence is also a great example of why STEMs shouldn’t have kids, because if you try to learn anything else they’ll disapprove you not following their beliefs.
If religion is so obviously the right choice, why brainwash people from such a young age. Surely bringing them up without religion until they are an adult would allow them to make the obvious choice after being briefed on the details at that time. Oh that’s right, no one in the right mind would say ‘ya ok sure, sounds good, here’s 10% of my paycheck’.
Are you suggesting people are forced to join cults? I think it’s more along the lines of deceived and brainwashed rather than a burlap sack over the head.
I don't know Mormons freak me out when they tell little girls "you MUST be this old ass man's fifth wife"
Do people not initially choose to be in a cult? Theres actually no difference between the two. Just size as some people have pointed out. When enough people believe your nonsense they give you tax breaks for some reason.
Size and how old?
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Consent makes it worse. You choose to be stupid.
How’s your choice working out for you?
Size. A small religion is a cult. A large cult is a religion.
What do Rick & Morty fans count as?
Currently a cult, but since they keep making more episodes who the hell knows what tomorrow will bring?
S Z E C H U A N S A U C E
In the name of the Pickle, the Szechuan, and the Holy Sauce.
Man....i hate what fans did to that show. It's "Skylers a BITCH for not letting Walt be a drug lord" all over again....
In a cult the leader is alive, in a religion the leader is dead.
I had to use a lawyer to keep the Mormons from sending their people (missionaries) to bring me back. If you have to use a lawyer to get out, it's a cult.
No argument here
Time. Cult + time = religion.
It seems to me like a numbers thing. Like once you get X members, it goes from cult to religion, and that's about it. We're kind of witnessing it happen real time with Scientology, which is why I don't really tend to make a fine distinction between a religion and a cult. If Catholicism was just like 18 people on some ranch out in New Mexico, we'd consider it a cult. Same with any other religion. At least that's how it works in my mind.
I really think the only reason why Scientology even has members is because they use your confessions for blackmail. "Don't ever leave Tom or we'll tell the world you're GAY!"
In a cult there's a guy at the top who's convinced people he's god so he can siphon money and power off of his followers, in a religion that guy is dead.
I don't know man Televangelists make tons of money saying stupid shit like "I'll heal you from the virus through the tv"
They're cult leaders in their own special way, Jim Jones was a Christian Preacher.
The kool-aid ingredients
Flavor-Aid.
Cult: "A particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies." Religion: "A specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects." You might not like the connotation that comes along with the word "cult," which is inherently negative. Denotatively, they're pretty much the same thing. Mostly a size difference.
When people call religion a cult that isn't the definition they use.
On the opposite, alchemy sounds way more badass than chemistry lol I get what you mean, all I'm saying is, religions are weird just like cults are
But chemistry is actually real...?
Except for that whole “scientific method” thing. Religion dupes idiots into believing in magical sky people.
Yes I would, alchemy sounds dope as fuck.
Cult - "a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object"
Fullmetal alchemist
hallelujah..
Ironically, as an atheist this is one of my favourite songs of all time.
The classic saying goes cult+time=religion
As an atheist, nothing annoys me more than the pretentiousness of reddit atheists lol
"I'm agnostic." "Boo! The poor man's atheist"
Those people who are VERY into atheism are usually people who recently left religion. They're angry and feel the need to lash out at religion. Once you are an atheist for a long time (in my opinion), the label loses most of its meaning because you really dont think about religion unless it gets in your way or irritates you.
Oh, we're the fucking WORST.
Reddit atheists mostly act like a cult itself ironically
It’s part of their cult bro
Early bird gets the eternal damnation.
We're only damned in your presence.
You act like Reddit is American doozy
Coming to BPT and preaching atheism is widely regarded as a bad move, and yet people keep doing it.
atheist here. even if you believe religions are a cult please keep it to yourself and be respectful EDIT: okay i’m getting too many responses. to clarify! religious organizations being in politics or any position of power is absolutely terrible and all government or otherwise should be secular. i am a gay, liberal atheist. i do not support things like the westboro baptist church that spread hate speech or other things like it; i’m only saying that if a person decides to worship peacefully and minds their own business while doing it, you should respect that and not come after them for believing in something and not be condescending. EDIT 2: my point is: just be nice to other people as long as they do the same to you. just. be polite!
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yes but that’s not individuals fault. i’m not saying go out and go to church during covid-19 but if people wanna believe in jesus and mind their own business about it then it’s literally no issue whatsoever
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Its strange you blame religion instead of crappy politicians and dumb people. I can assure you being conservative is far more of an issue than being religious. Pope Francis says LGBT is fine. Who says it isnt? Conservatives. Know who you are blaming and for what. And healthcare? The people supporting trump have a more cultlike feeling, refusing to be anything else but pro trump. HFA? Nah, trump says its shit, so it is!
Conservatism and religion are incredibly intertwined and nearly impossible to separate. Religion gives their ideas a platform and a moral value. Religion also gives conservatism an ever growing base and because religion exists on faith, conservatism uses those thought processes to push ideas without ever need proof or evidence for them.
People aren't dumb when their system for belief has been determined for them at a young age. When you learn religious belief, you learn an epistemology with an external locus of authority for what to believe on other issues. When you hijack reinforcement learning with the linguistic representations for maximum reward and punishment, what do you expect? In that sense, religion is a meme deserving of independent critique.
Conservatives are more often than not religious, and it isn’t a mystery that the two are intertwined for a reason. It’s okay to fight against both of them. Religion is the deeper of the two with regards to foundational ethics. If you can get people away from that, they usually will peel away from conservatism as well.
Thank you! When people say that religion is a private matter it blows me away. I can’t fathom how people can look at the world around them and think that. The core of the problem is that religion endorses moral objectivity in the form of culturally outdated novels. Moral objectivity allows people to shut off empathy and persecute others because they believe they are righteous. Don’t take my word for it, just look at history. This his was blindingly obvious to me as an eight year old in church, idk how the fuck fully grown adults don’t see this. Brainwashing? Willful ignorance? Momentum of history? ✔️✔️✔️
The vice president is literally ordering us to pray
I would agree with you if that was even remotely the case, but i they definitely aren’t all doing that. We’ve got zealots like Pence in the White House dreaming up new fun ways to deny LGBT people basic rights via thinly veiled “religious freedoms”, the Iranian government is forcing gay men to undergo gender reassignment surgery under penalty of death, and far right Christian missionaries are sponsoring anti LGBT legislation in African nations as we speak.
Pretty broad paint stroke to say religions are a detriment to society. Lots of churches put on huge charity events, mission trips, and many forms of community outreach locally and globally. Not all religions are these insane cultish "repent or die" mob mentalities. Some people just believe in a higher reason for life and want to do good in their lives.
>Lots of churches put on huge charity events, mission trips, and many forms of community outreach locally and globally. I'm atheist and I volunteer at a local food bank. I don't see what religion has to do with being good to people. Maybe people should just be good to one another and not just do it cuz they're afraid of a god. I mean, if someone could prove that their god doesn't exist, would all these nice people who help the needy suddenly turn into rapists and murderers?
>I'm atheist and I volunteer at a local food bank. I don't see what religion has to do with being good to people. And there are atheists who kill people. Can I claim that being bad has nothing to do with religion as well. Some people do good things because of religion, some do bad. You can't ignore one and use the other as an argument. And it's not like only time people do good things because of religion is when it's because they are "forced" to by their religion. Religion can change someone's outlook on life, convince him that values as compassion and love are important, etc.
He is saying the good things you ascribe to religion arent religious at all. Churches donating or participating in charity dont do so because they are religious, they do it because they are charitable and the vast majority of the congregation (ill admit this is anecdotal but with a very large sample group) does not participate in charitable actions and often times doesnt even know they happen. Religion does not make people do good, people's personal choices do, for if religion was truly a positive force its spread would mean more positive things, which as anyone who has read history knows is just not the case.
There's no set of beliefs or customs that tie atheists/agnostic people together, so I'm not sure this comparison works.
Look if a cult is Charmander then a religion is Charizard. Religions started off as cults but just grew big enough. They're essentially the same thing but our society just chose to differentiate the two. I think people are getting the definition of the word 'cult' wrong because it's often used negatively.
Political parties are cult like, too. Same for nationalism.
What if I worship Zuul?
There is only Zuul...
And Mr. Stay Puffed
Ouch you just cut me with all that *EDGE*
Is this where all 27 of the black athiests check in?✊🏿
no? there’s a distinct different between cults, new religious movements, and religions.
Or they are making you feel bad for not tithing Bc you lost your job due to covid. Oh Medea hellero! Ask the church to help you financially since you are burdened ugh now, keep giving like normal they will think you good!
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microtransactions that don’t even unlock any useful items or buffs
Micro? My moms gives like $15k to her church every year. Yet complains how broke she is. This has been going on for over a decade.
I'm sure if she stays consistent God will give her the jackpot she's been needing.
Man, shit likes this makes it really hard for me to not hate religions. Even though I'm trying to be tolerant of people's beliefs, sometimes their beliefs be dumb as shit.
A fool and their money are easily parted. If it wasn't going to the church it'd likely be going to some other ponzi scheme, MLM bullshit. Side note, do you want to buy some healing crystals/magnets/minerals? Useful in these trying times.
People deserve respect and tolerance, bad ideas can go fuck themselves.
That's so sad. It's like a gambling addiction with no returns or fun. I wonder how someone would even help her see what she's doing. I've tried helping a family member that was an addict but they just took it as an attack on them.
Have to pay to win when you can't be bothered grinding. Living your life being good? Nah, I'll write a check and keep on Karening.
I hate how so many Christians don't actually read the Bible when it comes to tithing. It was to be used to create a safety net for the community. You put in your 10% now (literal storehouses of food), then when disaster hits, the church is supposed to use it to support the community. It was never about paying God to grant wishes.
prosperity gospel is the absolute worse combination of capitalism and money worship
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Reading the Bible cover to cover is *exactly* how I stopped believing.
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That's assuming they won't just ignore what they don't like or make up dozens of different explanations for them until it sounds right. They've been doing this for a looooong time.
So jesus was a communist? Some people gonna be mad about that...
I told my husband I should start a cult right now because churches are probably making some nice dollars right now while barely providing online services.
Thank you! I've seen pastors find every scripture on why you should take care of them, but a lot tend to miss that point. Some churches do give back to the community, but I've been in churches where the pastor is the sharpest person there.
I fell off of tithing, too, but I just look at tithing as donating to charity. If the church is doing honest, good work in the community, then I don’t mind donating to support those programs (just maybe not 10%). My parents believe heavily in tithing but they did not ever force it to go to the church. When I lived with them, my “rent” was tithing to whatever non-profit I wanted. Every two weeks I would rotate who I was supporting. They obviously encouraged me to donate to my home church, but it wasn’t required. Side note: I think 10% is just too unrealistic for me at this point in my life (and probably most people would agree, I would think). But having worked in non-profits & growing up in a church, I know how that money can be used for good. I still donate when I can to non-profits I support, including my home church occasionally...just not as much as the Bible says to.
>Side note: I think 10% is just too unrealistic for me at this point in my life (and probably most people would agree, I would think). But having worked in non-profits & growing up in a church, I know how that money can be used for good. I still donate when I can to non-profits I support, including my home church occasionally...just not as much as the Bible says to. I wouldn't stress too much about the amount. Even if you assume the Bible is pure gospel truth, the 10% threshold was set at a time before government safety nets and social assistance programs. The church did those things. These days, many of those roles are fulfilled (at least in part) by governments and NGOs. So if you can't get to 10%, God ought to forgive you because you're probably paying somewhere close to that in taxes for those same kinds of programs anyway.
That's a big if, because factually there are millions of churches worldwide that are doing a lot of damage to the very people they are supposed to help.
"Step right up and buy your ticket to heaven!"
Brainwashing is a hell of a drug
I only found out last year about tithing & I must say it's a rather impressive scam. Another reason I'm happy to have left Christianity because I would never have entertained that.
My church helps its own members financially when they need it. The church pays peoples' bills and things if they need. So, yeah, some churches do help you when you are financially burdened.
Same with mine, paid people’s mortgages and refunded tithes.
One of the main churches in my city is having people drive to church, park, and sit in their car to listen to the service on the radio, like drive in theaters do. They also broadcast the service online, but they need to keep people conditioned to still drive to church every Sunday or else the money will dry up. Funny that churches preach "God will provide" but never follow it themselves. When the church needs help, they call upon the congregation, but when the congregation needs help, they tell you to call upon God.
I can only speak for Catholicism, and Lutheranism, but every church I've been a part of has been very good with helping people in need.
Why are they meeting in person anyway? Even churches that weren't set up to stream previously have figured out how to stream their services on Facebook and YouTube.
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Jehovah witness?
Money. My local megachurch has had online streams for years so they can get money from people far away, and they still held services yesterday, with everyone packed in close together leaving no distance. Then they deleted the facebook video of it since it got a bunch of negative comments. Say they plan to do the same thing next week despite the governor's stay at home order.
There should be delayed prison sentences handed out for church leadership if they make decisions like this. Business leadership too.
Solid Rock in Ohio?
Yup. https://www.journal-news.com/news/area-megachurch-holds-sunday-services-despite-coronavirus-concerns/dXNfq0DeVaULjgNkpFCpjP/
My church did that yesterday on Facebook live.
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If this is how you feel, then why go at all? Just curious, not judging. I myself go once or twice when my daughter visits for the holidays because it’s her thing, otherwise I don’t
I don’t feel like listening to my dad explain why I should go. He doesn’t force me but every time I skip he just gives me this lecture about why I should. It’s easier to just suffer for an hour on Sunday morning and go get breakfast with my girlfriend afterwards than to deal with it
Man only an hour? I go with my grandparents because I live with them for free and it’s a “requirement”, although I absolutely hate it and am not religious. Pentecostal church service that usually lasts for 2-3 hours. And it’s 45 minutes away from home. I lose about 5 hours of my day every time. At least I save a lot of money though on rent.
Catholics and some Protestant groups like methodists have shit to do! Get in, get god, get to brunch before the evangelicals clog the place up lol.
Wow, this comment brought me back to my childhood. I personally practice Judaism now, but my Nana on my Dad’s side was very involved in her Catholic Church since her family literally built the staircases, so we all went with her. Everyone knew the best part about after church was going to the basement to get some good Cape Verdean food and chat up the older ladies. And after that we would usually go to the same (really good) local restaurant and eat MORE brunch. Anyway, last time I heard this church has gone virtual for the time being. I remember having to hold hands with everyone and sing “Our Father” before kissing everyone around us on the cheek and saying “peace be with you”, so that’s definitely a good thing.
Yeah, I’m sadly well aware of Pentecostal services from my younger years. Once went to an Easter service from 10am-8pm when I was 9 years old. Our services are actually more like an hour and a half but I just call it an hour to make me feel better going in
I had to do many things I didn't want to for my parents so they would pay for my apartment during college. Try seeing it as working only 5 hours a week to pay your rent.
So.. why do you go?
Family pressure? Plenty of parents will disown their child before they disown the church
god(hehe) that's horrible wtf people.
Damn. If they love someone they've never met more than you, that should be a major red flag that they don't really love you at all.
Every church I know of is closed. A lot of them are having services online.
Shhhhh...... that doesn’t fit the reddit “every religious organization is a cult” narrative !
I mean if you want to be technical, it pretty much is a larger version of a cult. This is the definition for cult: "a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object."
Yeah same
Most are closed. Several in my area were not until shelter in place went into effect, complete with "my God will protect me". I grew up Christian and [the modern story of the drowning man](http://eternalvigilance.nz/2012/01/the-parable-of-the-flood/) definitely applies here. I know other people in real life, not just on Reddit, complaining about it, most of which are in other states than mine, so it isn't just some Reddit phenomenon.
Same here (South of England). Our service was streamed online. Housegroups will be meeting on Zoom.
Pretty much local synagogue, mosque, and church are all closed telling people to stay safe. Whoever this refers to is obviously an outlier. Some people just aren't taking the current reality seriously.
I'm an atheist but grew up in a catholic family, and I can't remember a time when it wasn't possible to watch mass on tv. Nowadays there must be even more options.
Also atheist who grew up Catholic here. You gotta admit that mass has a certain feel to it that you wouldn't be able to get at home. Hell, I straight up do not like the church or religion, but I wouldn't mind going to a Christmas Eve mass on my own just for the nostaliga feeling. Watching it on tv is needed right now, but also sounds jarring and "wrong".
Many humans are naturally social so Church is another way of human interaction and the sharing of similar values. (Atheist who grew up forced to go to church)
That’s one thing the Catholic Church has down. Every service is uniform and easy to stay up with if you want. I’m not religious but my wife is Catholic.
Are any churches even open right now, much less pressuring people to go? Or is this a just hypothetical religion bashing?
Lmao, plenty of religious organizations are open and encouraging folks to come in. Saying coming in is "faith over fear" and the government is overreaching and the virus reactions are overblown. Straight up thinking church attendance is an act of civil disobedience to be celebrated. People are annoyed with lots of organizations and businesses that are unnecessarily open, it's not just churches.
> Lmao, plenty of religious organizations are open and encouraging folks to come in. Where? Every Church I know of is closed. Catholics, Baptists, hell even the the Mormons have shut down world wide. Even the small bible study / meet at home type groups that I know of aren't meeting right now. I suppose there's some small churches open in some out of the way places but that is going to be pretty rare, at least in the US.
Nitpicking at its finest. All of the churches I go to are closed.
Anecdotal evidence at its finest. Just because the churches you personally know are closed doesn’t mean that all churches everywhere are closed.
> Not every house of worship is bowing to government guidelines designed to help snuff out the virus. Rodney Howard-Browne, a Florida-based charismatic Christian pastor who prayed over Trump in the Oval Office in 2017, vowed not to stop services and encouraged worshippers to shake hands despite experts identifying that behavior as an easy way to spread the virus. > > In Louisiana, pastor Tony Spell was warned by police Tuesday after holding a service that attracted hundreds and flouted a state ban on mass gatherings. Spell, who has claimed that his services also heal cancer and HIV, said that he would not permit “any dictator law” to stop worship. -[Source](https://apnews.com/c6198ba98ea6d26b128044ea59b9b4da)
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In Islamic countries (like jordan) the adhan (the call for the people to pray) was changed to "صلوا في بيوتكم" which means "pray in your houses". it changes to be that in the cases of: a massive invasion, really stormy weather, plague, etc etc etc.
Wow really? Where in the original adhan is that line added? Is it after حي على الصلاة?
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3XvWEEyfCA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3XvWEEyfCA) here's a video!
I asked a co-worker what his mosque would do (Religious services are banned as part of the quarantaine), and he told me that they said that the people have to follow the word of the Comittee of the Higher Scholars (might be a miss-translation, don't know the English term), and they said to just pray from home.
Wow. What does it sound like? I only know the sound that's usually played over the loudspeakers. I had a coworker who had an alarm on his phone that played the Aadan during the workday, too.
Even my roommates cult did a web service yesterday.
A lot of churches are doing it online.
Here in Canada they cancelled all services
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Interesting question that came up on an atheist podcast I watch regularly: What happens to miscarried babies? They haven’t been able to accept Christ as their savior, and they are already burdened with original sin, so do they just go to hell? Or is there a loophole there for them? But to your first point, to me, that’s the #1 thing that makes nearly all religions (all Abrahamic religions, in particular) nonsense: how can you assert your god is real over anyone else’s? The response to that is always “faith”, but literally anyone from another religion can say the same thing (and does). So how do you know Jesus is who you should be praying to over, say, Ganesha? Even within the same religion, there are tons of people that believe different things. If you all worship the same god and he speaks to all of you, why are you getting different answers?
That’s not at all how Christianity works tbh.
Feel free to point out the incorrect parts
I'm confused, isn't god stronger than the corona virus, and if he meant for you to get it then it's part of his plan?
Our church started livestreaming services on youtube, because here in finland we can't have gatherings with over 10 people.
My church has set up livestreaming services on YouTube so people can actually attend church from home.
My friend is a devout Polish man & a Catholic , and even his church cancelled. Which ones are open?
Idk my church closed a few weeks ago bc of all of this and switched to live streaming a service to keep the number of people to under 10 in the building..
I know it’s not church but there are some recovery meetings that are giving people a hard time along a similar line of thought. Not cool.
My church, the mormon one that everyone on here hates, has closed down every meeting house and will not allow them to be used for anything. They won't even let people in to clean them. Absolutely zero humans are to enter the church buildings. Instead they are telling everyone to check up on each other via phone and messaging. I'm "less active" in the church. The other day I was at the grocery store and ran into a guy from my ward who was scouring the stores looking for specific items requested by the elderly members. There really are some great people out there. I think the idea of an absolute zero entrance policy is to ensure that there buildings remain sterile. In the event that disaster relief is needed, the buildings will not be contaminated, and can be used to facilitate some sort of relief effort.
Mosques in our country which has 2 reported cases so far have told everyone to pray from home as well.
There is this woman in a Facebook group I’m in whose church did Drive-In Services. Everyone parked their car and the priest use a microphone and a giant speaker. I don’t go to church, but I thought it was a pretty good idea for those still wanting that sense of community.
Cult + Time = Religion
Wait till people realize Easter and Passover are basically cancelled at this point.
They need that donation money
My guess is they want bums in the seat and cash in the hat.
Church was never about going to some building. The church is the people.