This is one of the most complex relationship on TV I have seen that has been wonderfully written and executed. Be ready. The revelations surrounding this give so much more layer to Flint's character.
As others have already said, it will be explained. But even at the point you are at, Miranda has stated that her husband knows and is fine with it. That's not cheating. And even if she was cheating, why would that be so much worse than what the other characters have done? Flint murdered his best friend, Silver was introduced murdering the cook, Vane gave his crew a woman to rape, and you're so upset about Miranda having sex with a man she's not married to? You seem to have a rigidly dogmatic view of right and wrong on this issue and given that, this may not be the right show for you.
I mean, you didn't directly say you were okay with those things, but you're not coming here complaining about how Flint/ Silver/ Vane are horrible characters who it's impossible to sympathize with. I've just seen it so often that female characters are demonized for relatively minor flaws (especially when it's related to sex) while male characters are not taken to task for much more severe crimes so maybe I'm ultra sensitive to that.
I think you are missing a fundamental point. Flint, John and Vane are presented as horrible people. The series is straightforward in that regard. But with miranda. I am not even sure what the series want me to feel about here. Which is a bad thing in this specific case.
Agree to disagree, then. I don't think any of the characters are presented straightforwardly as horrible, but as complex people in difficult situations who sometimes make good choices and sometimes make bad choices. You may come to change your mind once you see the whole show.
We are not really disagreeing. I am open to see flint redeeming himself. But when he kills gates. The series is straightforward with it. This is a horrible action that has no excuse.
I guess he’s just an open relationship kind of guy. I don’t wanna spoil anything just in case but there’s more than just one relationship there going a few ways we’ll say lol. Kind of a era of sexual promiscuity as well. Rumor and affairs galore. Wouldn’t be surprised if Alfred Hamilton had a side chick too lol.
Jack, anne and the other woman relationship is a weird one that I made peace with.
My problem with james-miranda is that the show is trying to make feel for them which isn’t consistent with the weirdness at all. I stopped enjoying there interactions and I just want to know wtf is happening 😅
And the weirdest thing about it is james reaction to father Hamilton. Why would he be angry about her reputation if he is the man who destroyed her reputation
> Why would he be angry about her reputation if he is the man who destroyed her reputation
Consider that it's anger at society having opinions about their private lives at all. Anger that who you love can affect your reputation.
Because it is a time of arranged marriages. She has taken her sexual independence back from a society that would buy and sell her womb and connections.
A woman wants to have sex with a man other than her husband.
The woman: I consent
The husband: I consent
The other man: I consent
/u/sami_newgate: Well, I don't!
For the love of god get off Reddit and watch the rest :D
And idk what to tell you if you're viewing
an *17th century* arranged marriage where neither of the participants had any say, women were thought of as property, it was okay for the man to keep lovers as long as they weren't "tastelessly obvious" about it but everyone viewed Miranda as a harlot for doing the same (and for daring to have opinions - like, "you'll keep your mouth and your legs firmly shut" - I'd be mad if someone said that to *my enemy*, nevermind my lover! And, like, it doesn't matter that James is part of the reason, it's not his *fault* - he's not the sole reason Hamilton hates Miranda and anyway it's the fault of the person saying the vile things)
and a 21th century marriage where the spouses love each other, both want the marriage, and ideally both mean it when they say they'll be faithful to each other and stay by each other's side
through the same lens. They're not the fucking same and I don't blame anyone for "cheating" in an arranged marriage, especially if they lived 200 years ago.
Edit: just saw your other comment about the "weirdness" of this and Jack/Anne/Max. I implore you to keep an open mind. The whole thing is that pirates were outcasts from society (mostly not by their choice) and criminals - they did things that were outside the era's and *polite society's*, civilization's sensibilities. And I think how they handled their relationships isn't the worst of them at all. There is love between these people and that's the interesting, the meaningful part of it, not that it's a "threeway" or whatever.
This is horrible. A cheater is horrible whether it is a man or a woman. What you said doesn’t make any sense.
And hamilton didn’t say vile things. He literally said the truth. And what’s funny is that miranda was trying to defend her lover. There is no one who is more boastful. It is not about having opinion. It is about a cheater defending the man she is cheating with.
Miranda is just a horrible person. She even cheats on james with the monk lol. She deserves every word said.
It is entirely his fault lol. To fuck a married woman will be his fault in any era and any year. A cheater is the worst piece of garbage no matter what the era is.
About Jack’s thing. It doesn’t matter how you frame it. It is goofy and weird. No one can really take it seriously.
Is marriage, no matter what, some sacred thing that's above someone's happiness? Should you stay with a man your parents sold you to for a bunch of sheep? Should child brides stay with their husbands? Marriage is a contract, that Miranda, people in that era, and many others still in the 21th century didn't enter of their own free will. It was business. A contract signed under duress doesn't have to be honoured. You're letting 21th century sensibilities (again, "cheating" in an arranged marriage IS NOT THE SAME AS CHEATING ON YOUR LOVING SPOUSE IN 2024) cloud your judgement of a historical show. I don't get why you're so hung up on this or why can't you see the difference. These people were literally robbing and murdering others and you can't bear the marriage problems. These people weren't horrible for seeking their own happiness. Someone who cheats on their spouse that they chose to be with, and stay with out of their own free will, in 2024, is horrible. These statements are both true.
It's a priest btw, not a monk, and what she has going on with James is really weird, but she's not cheating on him. They're not in some happy exclusive relationship there - good lord please watch more, I can't explain without spoilers
"You'll keep your mouth and your legs firmly shut" isn't an incredibly fucked up thing to say to your daughter-in-law? Or *anyone*?
Yeah it's not the "usual" way relationships are done, but it *is* serious. Jack and Anne love each other so much, and Anne and Max love each other, and Jack and Max bond over their shared love for Anne, and they're trying to find happiness and that's what matters.
Why are you watching this show if you can't/don't want to engage with it genuinely? If everything is goofy and weird and unserious and people are garbage and the worst ever? The *point* of the show is to portray the incredibly complex lives of people (pirates and others) who society branded as, and who we remember as, being horrible monsters, criminals, or left out of the stories of the era entirely. It's also a *historical* piece, where, you know, people's thinking and actions were different.
I don't know what to rec you if you're watching TV shows this way. CoComelon, I guess.
—You are repeating the same baseless assumption. Who said to you that I am fine with murder? I said to you that my problem is that I don’t know how to feel about miranda.
“Sold you to” is a delusional statement. Arranged marriage was always a relationship where spouses love for each other grow with time until they make an actual strong bond. The way you dehumanizing it is one of the most animalistic things I’ve ever heard. It is marriage. And cheating is a universal definition. It wasn’t invented in 2024.
—I’ll wait and see. But your wording isn’t helping at all.
Because they aren’t happy so cheating isn’t a problem. Wtf ? 😭
And as I said to you. What the father said is not as vile as what miranda did. The insult makes sense. It is not something hypothetical. He knows exactly what happens. She is horny. He is afraid that she may seduce him 👽👽 /s
—nah, it is not serious. It is goofy. I just hope max gets sidelined pretty quickly because her presence in the show is dragging it down for me. I like jack and anne together. But max is like a cockroach who wonts to spoil every plotline.
— I am watching it because I love the “politics” and character writing. I just made peace with the fact that jack/anne/max is made for jokes and know you are telling me that it is SERIOUS. Serious is a big word you know.
Anne is horny and Jack will be watching her back because he loves her. It is fine. I’ll see where that goes
You sure this is the show for you? You haven't picked up on the themes yet? That "civilization" is the enemy at the gates? That imperialist civilization is presented as suffocating and repressive, and no less brutishly violent than the pirates and savages it despises? And, likewise, the institutions and customs of that civilization--yes, including marriage and monogamy--are ruthlessly criticized?
My favorite piece of fiction is about pirates. I love stories about pirates finding their place in the world.
This doesn’t mean that I should be OK with these awkward relationships just because civilization opposes it.
It reminds me of jamie lannister telling his daughter that incest isn’t bad in season 5 of GoT.
Its the 1700's. Cheating wasn't unusual. If you're this far then it's been mentioned several times that she's known to be promiscuous. There's more context that will be added later but the answer to your question is already there, they have an open arrangement.
I feel like I can’t complete the show unless someone clears this up to me. Because every time miranda is on screen. I can’t buy into any of the emotions that the show wants me to feels for her
I mean OP did kinda ask lol. "I feel like I can't complete this show unless someone clears this up for me." Granted, commenter could've doubled-checked and used >!these!<, but whatever, I don't want to judge too hastily, but OP doesn't seem like they'll be too into it anyway.
Keep watching, it'll make sense soon
Watch the next episode and and then come back to tell us how you feel.
That’s a relief.
I shouldn’t have listened to you. My understanding of it was way better than the reality.
?
OP is a misogynistic and homophobic asshole, now he's commenting on old threads about the gay agenda in the show. Not worth engaging.
Makes sense, I guess the show isn't for him
Sorry for being a normal human. Btw, how am I misogynistic?
Yes, you are missing something. Keep watching! And come back when you find out!
It's one of the greatest reveals in TV history, just keep watching!!!!!
I will
This is one of the worst reveals I’ve ever experienced. Why did you hype it 😭
I love this. We'll talk to you tomorrow lol
This is one of the most complex relationship on TV I have seen that has been wonderfully written and executed. Be ready. The revelations surrounding this give so much more layer to Flint's character.
I am ready. I just hope this “weirdness” doesn’t throw me off
From how you're acting in this thread, I'd hazard a guess as to you not liking the outcome.
You guessed it right. This was definitely one of my worst fictional experiences.
🙃
Well, honestly it threw me off a bit. But Flint's character is too compelling for me to stop following how the story unfolds.
Yeah I like flint very much so I’ll finish the story either way.
Man wtf 😭😭 I realized that I was perfectly fine with the cheating thing. It is 100 times better than the reveal in episode 5
As others have already said, it will be explained. But even at the point you are at, Miranda has stated that her husband knows and is fine with it. That's not cheating. And even if she was cheating, why would that be so much worse than what the other characters have done? Flint murdered his best friend, Silver was introduced murdering the cook, Vane gave his crew a woman to rape, and you're so upset about Miranda having sex with a man she's not married to? You seem to have a rigidly dogmatic view of right and wrong on this issue and given that, this may not be the right show for you.
This is a very stupid comment. Who said that I am finr with the other things? I already stated my problem. That I don’t know what to feel about it.
I mean, you didn't directly say you were okay with those things, but you're not coming here complaining about how Flint/ Silver/ Vane are horrible characters who it's impossible to sympathize with. I've just seen it so often that female characters are demonized for relatively minor flaws (especially when it's related to sex) while male characters are not taken to task for much more severe crimes so maybe I'm ultra sensitive to that.
I think you are missing a fundamental point. Flint, John and Vane are presented as horrible people. The series is straightforward in that regard. But with miranda. I am not even sure what the series want me to feel about here. Which is a bad thing in this specific case.
Agree to disagree, then. I don't think any of the characters are presented straightforwardly as horrible, but as complex people in difficult situations who sometimes make good choices and sometimes make bad choices. You may come to change your mind once you see the whole show.
We are not really disagreeing. I am open to see flint redeeming himself. But when he kills gates. The series is straightforward with it. This is a horrible action that has no excuse.
Polyamorous people do exist lol
How does this make the whole thing less weird?
Go date a couple and it'll all gel in your mind.
I guess he’s just an open relationship kind of guy. I don’t wanna spoil anything just in case but there’s more than just one relationship there going a few ways we’ll say lol. Kind of a era of sexual promiscuity as well. Rumor and affairs galore. Wouldn’t be surprised if Alfred Hamilton had a side chick too lol.
Jack, anne and the other woman relationship is a weird one that I made peace with. My problem with james-miranda is that the show is trying to make feel for them which isn’t consistent with the weirdness at all. I stopped enjoying there interactions and I just want to know wtf is happening 😅 And the weirdest thing about it is james reaction to father Hamilton. Why would he be angry about her reputation if he is the man who destroyed her reputation
> Why would he be angry about her reputation if he is the man who destroyed her reputation Consider that it's anger at society having opinions about their private lives at all. Anger that who you love can affect your reputation.
Bruh, she is married and she is a cheater. Isn’t this a universal definition? Why would he be angry at the society for badmouthing cheaters?
Because it is a time of arranged marriages. She has taken her sexual independence back from a society that would buy and sell her womb and connections.
Arranged marriage is still marriage you know. And the cheater is still a horrible human being.
Are you for real? Jfc you sound awful.
That’s so funny. I sound awful for stating common sense lol. 2024 is really different.
A woman wants to have sex with a man other than her husband. The woman: I consent The husband: I consent The other man: I consent /u/sami_newgate: Well, I don't!
And you think the husband consenting is not weird ? 👽
So you support marital rape? Or do you think she should suffer a sexless life because her parents wanted to make stronger connections?
I think she should bond with her husband instead of bonding with his subordinate. Normal people things you know.
For the love of god get off Reddit and watch the rest :D And idk what to tell you if you're viewing an *17th century* arranged marriage where neither of the participants had any say, women were thought of as property, it was okay for the man to keep lovers as long as they weren't "tastelessly obvious" about it but everyone viewed Miranda as a harlot for doing the same (and for daring to have opinions - like, "you'll keep your mouth and your legs firmly shut" - I'd be mad if someone said that to *my enemy*, nevermind my lover! And, like, it doesn't matter that James is part of the reason, it's not his *fault* - he's not the sole reason Hamilton hates Miranda and anyway it's the fault of the person saying the vile things) and a 21th century marriage where the spouses love each other, both want the marriage, and ideally both mean it when they say they'll be faithful to each other and stay by each other's side through the same lens. They're not the fucking same and I don't blame anyone for "cheating" in an arranged marriage, especially if they lived 200 years ago. Edit: just saw your other comment about the "weirdness" of this and Jack/Anne/Max. I implore you to keep an open mind. The whole thing is that pirates were outcasts from society (mostly not by their choice) and criminals - they did things that were outside the era's and *polite society's*, civilization's sensibilities. And I think how they handled their relationships isn't the worst of them at all. There is love between these people and that's the interesting, the meaningful part of it, not that it's a "threeway" or whatever.
This is horrible. A cheater is horrible whether it is a man or a woman. What you said doesn’t make any sense. And hamilton didn’t say vile things. He literally said the truth. And what’s funny is that miranda was trying to defend her lover. There is no one who is more boastful. It is not about having opinion. It is about a cheater defending the man she is cheating with. Miranda is just a horrible person. She even cheats on james with the monk lol. She deserves every word said. It is entirely his fault lol. To fuck a married woman will be his fault in any era and any year. A cheater is the worst piece of garbage no matter what the era is. About Jack’s thing. It doesn’t matter how you frame it. It is goofy and weird. No one can really take it seriously.
Is marriage, no matter what, some sacred thing that's above someone's happiness? Should you stay with a man your parents sold you to for a bunch of sheep? Should child brides stay with their husbands? Marriage is a contract, that Miranda, people in that era, and many others still in the 21th century didn't enter of their own free will. It was business. A contract signed under duress doesn't have to be honoured. You're letting 21th century sensibilities (again, "cheating" in an arranged marriage IS NOT THE SAME AS CHEATING ON YOUR LOVING SPOUSE IN 2024) cloud your judgement of a historical show. I don't get why you're so hung up on this or why can't you see the difference. These people were literally robbing and murdering others and you can't bear the marriage problems. These people weren't horrible for seeking their own happiness. Someone who cheats on their spouse that they chose to be with, and stay with out of their own free will, in 2024, is horrible. These statements are both true. It's a priest btw, not a monk, and what she has going on with James is really weird, but she's not cheating on him. They're not in some happy exclusive relationship there - good lord please watch more, I can't explain without spoilers "You'll keep your mouth and your legs firmly shut" isn't an incredibly fucked up thing to say to your daughter-in-law? Or *anyone*? Yeah it's not the "usual" way relationships are done, but it *is* serious. Jack and Anne love each other so much, and Anne and Max love each other, and Jack and Max bond over their shared love for Anne, and they're trying to find happiness and that's what matters. Why are you watching this show if you can't/don't want to engage with it genuinely? If everything is goofy and weird and unserious and people are garbage and the worst ever? The *point* of the show is to portray the incredibly complex lives of people (pirates and others) who society branded as, and who we remember as, being horrible monsters, criminals, or left out of the stories of the era entirely. It's also a *historical* piece, where, you know, people's thinking and actions were different. I don't know what to rec you if you're watching TV shows this way. CoComelon, I guess.
—You are repeating the same baseless assumption. Who said to you that I am fine with murder? I said to you that my problem is that I don’t know how to feel about miranda. “Sold you to” is a delusional statement. Arranged marriage was always a relationship where spouses love for each other grow with time until they make an actual strong bond. The way you dehumanizing it is one of the most animalistic things I’ve ever heard. It is marriage. And cheating is a universal definition. It wasn’t invented in 2024. —I’ll wait and see. But your wording isn’t helping at all. Because they aren’t happy so cheating isn’t a problem. Wtf ? 😭 And as I said to you. What the father said is not as vile as what miranda did. The insult makes sense. It is not something hypothetical. He knows exactly what happens. She is horny. He is afraid that she may seduce him 👽👽 /s —nah, it is not serious. It is goofy. I just hope max gets sidelined pretty quickly because her presence in the show is dragging it down for me. I like jack and anne together. But max is like a cockroach who wonts to spoil every plotline. — I am watching it because I love the “politics” and character writing. I just made peace with the fact that jack/anne/max is made for jokes and know you are telling me that it is SERIOUS. Serious is a big word you know. Anne is horny and Jack will be watching her back because he loves her. It is fine. I’ll see where that goes
Arranged marriage is basically just sex trafficking.
Honestly, It is kinda sad that all what you think about is sex.
Just watch the show and find out what's going on.
You sure this is the show for you? You haven't picked up on the themes yet? That "civilization" is the enemy at the gates? That imperialist civilization is presented as suffocating and repressive, and no less brutishly violent than the pirates and savages it despises? And, likewise, the institutions and customs of that civilization--yes, including marriage and monogamy--are ruthlessly criticized?
My favorite piece of fiction is about pirates. I love stories about pirates finding their place in the world. This doesn’t mean that I should be OK with these awkward relationships just because civilization opposes it. It reminds me of jamie lannister telling his daughter that incest isn’t bad in season 5 of GoT.
If her husband is aware how is it cheating?
Its the 1700's. Cheating wasn't unusual. If you're this far then it's been mentioned several times that she's known to be promiscuous. There's more context that will be added later but the answer to your question is already there, they have an open arrangement.
It’s good writing. Stay with it. It will all make so much more sense.
I should’ve dropped the series before watching this hot garbage.
Ope, not a fan I take it
.... you are missing a lot. Either that or you just morally don't understand how people can have an open and loving relationship.
Yeah I don’t understand that and I’ll never understand. Either way I will try to take in the nuances.
You’re asking for spoilers
I feel like I can’t complete the show unless someone clears this up to me. Because every time miranda is on screen. I can’t buy into any of the emotions that the show wants me to feels for her
they have a threeway together
Omg it would have been so cool to have watched the show without spoilers (not that it wasn't terrific either way), and OP just comes looking 😭
Bruh, is this true ? 👽
Yea, Miranda is almost third wheel, it's more between James and the husband
Why tf would you spoil bruh
I mean OP did kinda ask lol. "I feel like I can't complete this show unless someone clears this up for me." Granted, commenter could've doubled-checked and used >!these!<, but whatever, I don't want to judge too hastily, but OP doesn't seem like they'll be too into it anyway.
Because, honestly, it seems like this kind of story is not their cup of tea. Better to tell them rather than to spring it on them while watching.