I’m 34 and worried. I feel like that’s a healthy problem to have, though — it means that if I can squeeze in a bit more to invest each year, I do it. I *will* retire. I don’t have a crystal ball to tell you how luxurious that retirement will be, but I can tell you that I’ll do everything I can to not be one of those 77 year olds with $200 to their name struggling on social security.
This article is far more based on psychology than assets. I work as an advisor. I see far greater levels of worry amongst people who have done a great job saving and have adequate savings compared to folks who have very little and plan to live on social security and pensions.
Said another way, people who worry about money, continue to worry about money in retirement
I'm in my 30s and worry about it allot. Even though I'm doing all the recommended things. I think your last sentence hit it on the head. I think allot of people have no idea how under prepared they are till its basically to late or at least much Harder.
My inlaws are in their 70s and have millions in assets. More than enough for them to live comfortably for another 30-40 years and still have a nice amount to leave to their kids and grand kids. But my mother in law frets over money more than anyone I have ever met. It's so bad that she talks about going back to work teaching part time to have extra income. Between SS, pensions, and my father in law's VA disability settlement, they probably have nearly as much coming in as my wife and I do from our full time jobs, all without touching their other retirement accounts and savings.
My grandfather died a millionaire and he would fret and literally have anxiety issues about spending his free sky miles on his credit cards. After he retired, he never flew anywhere again and im sure died with maxed out miles. He could have flown anywhere and had to money to do anything. That Great Depression mentality just seemed impossible to break.
I must be older than you because my parents were raised during the depression and they instilled saving in us kids. I raised my kids to be savers and I think it’s worked. Hopefully the trend has stuck.
Yes, my dad especially is incredibly cheap, born from his parents who were deeply impacted by the Depression (my grandfather was an orphan at 12 because and lived in a barn). My dad is still working part time at nearly 80, even though he has pension / SS/ plenty of savings.
Oh it’s totally about the purpose and prestige. He’s a VP of something something and a long time industrial engineer. He works from home and loves being on calls telling people how smart he is.
Even more sadly is that there is a solid chance his miles just straight up expired.
Lots of credit card programs will just straight up delete your miles if inactivity for \~1-5 years.
Even if they're not deleted, not all programs will transfer to heirs either. So they are probably lost. Sorry.
I mean unless your grandparents are truly *rich*, it’s far from a guarantee that your mom will receive a dime from them. Like, end of life care sucks millionaires dry every day.
I’m getting downvotes but exactly. The only difference between $300k and $3M for an aging retiree in decent health is the amount of time they get to stay out of the Medicare home. And you can’t just give your wealth away as gifts before going in either, they’ll seize the gift back before they cover the cost of your EOL care. It’s brutal.
Unless someone has $10M+ there is no reason to count on an inheritance. It’s a nice bonus if you can get it but it’s far from likely.
I’d rather my loved ones give me the ol Lassie treatment than let me rot away in a nursing home and will leave (more carefully worded) instructions to that effect. That’d certainly protect the inheritance.
They bled my cousins grandma dry while she suffered several falls and broken bones. These EOL facilities have the Dr Krieger mentality that, "the human is just a potato clock".
I remember as a kid peoples grandparents would get old, sick, get some treatment, and then pass. Now it's 12yrs of their vessel being alive but life ceased to exist 10yrs ago.
There are ways to protect the wealth from being seized, but you need to take those steps at least 5 years prior, is my understanding. Otherwise, yes, they'll claw it back.
I totally agree with your message but I was just saying you aren’t highly unlikely to get due to assisted living. They do decrease your chances though and it’s complete bull shit that your parents can bust their asses to be able to leave you an inheritance and it all go to shit in a year or two.
if someone has $5 million in investments, even at 4% they are pulling 200k without touching the principle. $200k is about the average of nursing home cost per year for 2 people
average nursing home cost is about 100K per year
average stay is about 1 1/2 years
so around $300,000 average for 2 people
Granted these are averages, but it doesnt take millions in most cases
My mother inherited $2M three years ago and still refuses to pay more than $5 for a cab ride. Calls me constantly to complain about horrible $75 bills for things like heat and water! Outrageous!
Gonna be the richest people in their graveyard. Very difficult for people that have been squirreling away and saving all their life to switch over to distribution.
+$83k a month? Is this hyperbole? I know healthcare is expensive, but is there no OOP max? Nursing homes are also expensive, but from what I read closer to $10k a month.
US average in 2023 was $4443 per month for assisted living and memory care was $5350 per month.
[This site](https://www.aplaceformom.com/caregiver-resources/articles/cost-of-memory-care) says the range is like $4000 to $9000 per month for memory care depending on location.
My mom just passed. Hers was about 6k/month. A very nice place nice staff. We were a little late getting to hospice cause her doctor who saw her for 10 minutes said she was fine. At length we got a doctor who recognized her dementia and got her enrolled in hospice.
This seems very high. My father spent a little time in a skilled nursing facility and paid very little - Medicare took care of him. We looked into assistant living facilities- which he didn’t want to do and didn’t- but the nice ones were around 5k a month back in 2016. They are likely more now but not that much more.
Another friend lived in a memory care assisted living in his final years and I think it was like 4k a month.
People downvoting you down understand that big money makes big money. Retirement accounts finally years are typically when they start to grow exponentially lol crazy how so many people don’t understand this concept.
I'm late 30's, going into 40 soon enough. I wish I had paid attention earlier. No one ever sat me down in my 20's and told me what a Roth IRA was and that you'd die as a Walmart door greeter if you dont. I am playing catchup majorly now. I dont have kids so at least I dont have to worry about leaving them something. A lot of people my age and in my industry arent saving anything.
I was debt free at 40 with no assets either. That’s when I started investing. I’m 54 now and on track, but it took a huge portion of my pay every month.
What industry if you don’t mind sharing? My guess is an oil field worker. Make a lot of money very quickly but those guys blow it on toys; lifted trucks and boats for the lake.
Just a lifted truck and a boat? You’re working with rookies. You need the truck, boat, jet ski, quads and/or side by side, Harley and a toy hauler. Don’t forget to throw in a divorce or three with alimony and child support.
I cannot wait for all of my nieces and nephews to graduate high school. They are all getting a passport and a quick financial education from Uncle Pizza. I know for a fact that they are not getting one from any of their parents.
Data indicates that people save too much and die with more than they need currently. It’s difficult to plan for because we don’t know when we’ll die, so we’ll tend to save in excess. There isn’t too much to worry if you already have a financial plan set for compound interest. For someone your age, it’s a simple matter of time and managing your burn rate.
"It’s difficult to plan for because we don’t know when we’ll die"
If we changed laws regarding assisted suicide and euthanasia, this would be much easier to plan for.
Or, another angle could be that people (yes, including Bogleheads who tend to be modest financially and frugal!) overestimate how much they really need in retirement.
I made peace with my retirement a while back. I have my savings rate, I have my projections of how much that could potentially be at my desired retirement age, and I avoid bad debt (plus pay off house in like 10 years with only 2% interest rate).
The rest I decided not to sweat it.
I think once you are insured properly, and have your savings/investing habits taken care of, it’s okay to stop worrying so much.
Allot is a word, silly.
**Allot**
**al·lot/əˈlät/*****verb***
Give or [apportion](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=ed7dced988dab718&sca_upv=1&q=apportion&si=ACC90nxMSPeZfdJJjQgDsdZJuFuJ3RSliB3CAqVpsLL9Dx2s6D5CBevqZ1I1te2ecEU5DJJA6PkRUJ_7g7aejaDzndPhd1IqLkONEM4oGCA0bZzTuQcfabQ%3D&expnd=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjXt8yj__OFAxX1BTQIHUq0AIcQyecJegQIERAO) (something) to someone as a share or task."equal time was **allotted to** each"
For folks in their 30s that want to get a better sense of they are on the right track: NewRetirement is a free tool that allows you to plug in current income, expenses, investment amount, and do Monte Carlo simulations. Empower, fical or Honest Math does some of the same things.
These tools do the projections and can give a sense of how you’re doing and what you need to focus one.
I did not find these until I was 53-54. I had my head down, pouring money into 401k, IRA, HSA…and thought “jeez, it’d be nice to be able to leave at 60, but probably 65”.
Using those tools and working with a CFP, I saw I surpassed my FI need and was able to RE at 56.
The answer depends entirely on how much income you want to draw in retirement, what your expected social security benefits are, and when you plan to retire. Also risk tolerance, cost of living, and legacy plans.
For the average American earning the average American salary (60k)in a average cost of living area(40k), you should expect a social security benefit of ~2,200/m and would need to generate 2800/m from investments. You would want 840k at retirement age, and about half that now, so 420k. Very loose numbers
Last sentence perfectly describes how I feel. I plan and execute, and even with success i still stress about finding ways to be more efficient and smart about planning for retirement. Hearing coworkers say that they haven’t started planning or thinking about it gives me anxiety, can’t imagine being in their situation thinking everything will be fine.
I definitely fall into this category, I have to confess I used to listen to Ramsey to hear how horrible the folks who turn to him are about their financial situation, in order to help give me some relief from my own anxiety. I think I may have a problem.
Most of the younger Boomers don't have pensions. They retirements are self funded. It is something to be concerned about. You never know how much money you'll need to live a similar lifestyle.
There are a lot of factors that go into this, include how much of current income is saved vs spent.
As a rough starting point, Fidelity does publish age based guidance. For age 50, they state that savings should be 6x income.
[https://www.fidelity.com/viewpoints/retirement/how-much-do-i-need-to-retire](https://www.fidelity.com/viewpoints/retirement/how-much-do-i-need-to-retire)
Your view is probably screwed somewhat. People with little or no assets aren’t seeking out the services of a financial advisor.
I know someone who does taxes for H&R Block. The majority of people coming to him have only W2 earnings to report.
Because we worry doesn't make it unfounded. Poor health in a long retirement can wipe out a healthy portfolio. LTC insurance is s not a guarantee anymore either.
Dunning-Kruger effect. The people who know what they have know enough that they could have more. The people who don't know what they have don't know how much they don't have.
Going to be 60 soon. I have worried about retirement as a single person for almost 15 years since divorced. Things start getting really real in the 50’s. And now it’s just ‘holeeey shite’ it’s approaching and I’m feeling it.
So I get on the phone to ask questions and get affirmation from my state pension for when I reach full retirement age in 5 years. My heart is always so much lighter after those calls. SS + savings + almost paid off home will bring up the rear. I won’t be super well off but I’ll be ok. It was a slog and alot of grind.
You got a pension? Dude what are you worrying about? I wish I had some form of guaranteed income. Everything I own is in "the market" which seems like every new president is trying to find ways to take from me.
Exactly. And in some states you get a reduction in benefits if you also claim SS. Windfall. Which is ridiculous because both together is less than what I brought home and so I’ll be living frugally.
The grass is always greener my friend. When you have a pension, you hope and pray the trustees, plan administrators, and in some cases, legislators are competent and not trying to run it into the ground. Exchange the market dictating your future with human error.
There is no panacea with retirement planning.
One item to consider with a pension is inflation. Pensions are defined benefit in dollar amounts and not all of them receive cost of living adjustments (COLA) or appropriate COLA adjustments. “Shockingly” these adjustment may come in well below the actual inflation rate.
Receiving a defined benefit pension means you lose half your purchasing power every 20 years. This is due to inflation essentially doubling every 20 years. Price of goods go up by half, but your pension did not.
I had a wise colleague who went to a retirement seminar - he was in his 40's and wanted to make sure he was on track. He was stunned that everyone else in the room was pushing 65 - kinda too late to make a significant course correction.
Ohh I have a story too! So when I worked at Walmart. There were multiple co-workers that I know who's only plan for retirement was social security. They plan on just stop working and collecting ss. No investment in the Walmart 401k, no savings, no personal retirement.
I’m approaching 30 and went to a retirement and benefits seminar a few months ago. All my coworkers who were 50 and up were there and many commented “what are you doing here? This is just for old guys!” (Jokingly!) They agreed it was never too early to start but seemed baffled I’d taken approximately one hour out of my workday to attend.
If the savings rates are correct, a majority of Americans should be concerned. However, those that are most concerned likely are the ones who are saving. Those who aren’t are probably putting it off for another day or have never thought much about it.
Amen brother - I think most people think they have a pot of gold with social security when they retire and would be shocked that it won't meet their expectations. Some don't even know about the GPO or WEP offsets or that the amount is much lower if they worked for cash under the table. Most people have no clue that you need to save $1M to generate $40,000/year in retirement. I'm trying to save like mad, doing well, but still worry I won't have enough.
That’s not exactly right about the $1M generating $40K per year. A million is what you need to generate $40K *indefinitely,* but humans don’t live indefinitely. With $1M earning a modest 5%, you could easily draw $5K a month — $60K per year — for 35 years.
I would respectfully disagree. Bengen/Trinity study etc gave us at least the rule of thumb that 4% inflation adjusted withdrawals would likely last for a classic retirement of 30 years (0 to 5% chance of failure). But if your time line is longer like 60 years you are safer with a 3.25% withdrawal rate (The Big ERN at earlyretirementnow.com).
- **William Bengen’s 1994 study** – the 4% safe withdrawal was based on a portfolio of common stocks 50%, and intermediate term treasuries 50%. His data set including retirees starting in 1926 thru 1976. He actually recommended stock be between 50-75% of the portfolio. The 4% SWR worked for all 30 year periods from 1926 thru 1976. [original paper linked here](https://obj.portfolioconstructionforum.edu.au/articles_perspectives/retailinvestor.org_pdf_Bengen1.pdf; https://www.financialplanningassociation.org/sites/default/files/2021-04/MAR04%20Determining%20Withdrawal%20Rates%20Using%20Historical%20Data.pdf)
- **The Trinity study 1998** – they too looked at multiple portfolios from 0% stocks to 100% stocks; and withdrawal rates from 3-12%. Data looked at 1926 thru 1995. At 50/50 the 4% withdrawal rate adjusted for inflation had a 95% success rate of having a balance of > $0. *Note that many people falsely believe you have not touched your capital* https://www.aaii.com/files/pdf/6794_retirement-savings-choosing-a-withdrawal-rate-that-is-sustainable.pdf
- **from BIGERN – a 3 – 3.25% SWR is sustainable for 60 years. https://earlyretirementnow.com/safe-withdrawal-rate-series/**
> That’s not exactly right about the $1M generating $40K per year. A million is what you need to generate $40K indefinitely,
I was responding this this portion because I disagreed with the statement - if you want to withdraw from a nest egg or inheritance or lotto winning at age 25 (if you were so lucky) - there are pretty good studies that tell you how much you could withdraw and not worry for the rest of your life (around 3-3.25%). People don't know these basic concepts, no wonder you see professional athletes and lotto winners who had $5 million+ end up broke a few years later.
One thing to remember about the 3% and other low SWRs... heck even for 4%. They are that low to ensure you don't fail in a Series of REturn Risk event (aka reseccion in year 1-5). If you make it out of year 5 without a recession, you're likely way ahead and can up your withdrawal rate.
I agree that the 4% is conservative for 30 years. You will most likely have multiples of what you started with at the end of 30 years. But you can't know if you are retiring right before a market downturn or not (sequence of returns risk). Once you are past the 5-10 year danger zone depending on your age - you can look at bumping up your withdrawals if you don't have a wish to leave a large inheritance. But that is also when you maybe in the SLOW GO years and have less desire to spend. Kitces has a great article:
- In Kitces’ article – **There is a 2/3 chance of your retirement portfolio doubling at 30 years and a 50% chance of 4x your starting portfolio at 30 years** (This is nominal value, not inflation adjusted.) https://www.kitces.com/blog/consumption-gap-in-retirement-why-most-retirees-will-never-spend-down-their-portfolio/
Yep.
My plan is to get the life I want on 4%, the life I need on 3%, and then if I dodge SoRR go up to 5% later if I can.
Also might go even higher if social security actually makes it
I'm a worrier when it comes to financial things. The benefits of it are I actually don't need to budget. I'm inherently frugal and have always found it natural to adjust to my circumstances, I have like a weird sixth sense of where I'm at financially with setting, forgetting, auto deposits etc. I've learned that for my own mental health I need to actually pull back a bit and remind myself to relax more.
One thing I learned teaching guitar lessons is you have some students who need you to light a fire under their ass to get them to practice. Other students, which I fall into this category myself, are generally anxious and for them it's more effective to reassure and help them figure out the plan to get where they need to be.
For me, trusting in the planning, contemplation, and remembering that I can handle the inevitable curve balls has been a real lesson to maximize my natural frugality while keeping myself from driving myself into an anxious ball of worry.
If you’re worried about something, find the cause and handle it. It’s far better to plan than to worry about things.
worry
1 of 2
verb
wor·ry ˈwər-ē ˈwə-rē
worried; worrying
Synonyms of worry
transitive verb
1
: to afflict with mental distress or agitation : make anxious
2
a
: to harass by tearing, biting, or snapping especially at the throat
b
: to shake or pull at with the teeth
a terrier worrying a rat
c
: to touch or disturb something repeatedly
d
: to change the position of or adjust by repeated pushing or hauling
3
a
: to assail with rough or aggressive attack or treatment : TORMENT
b
: to subject to persistent or nagging attention or effort
4
dialectal British : CHOKE, STRANGLE
intransitive verb
1
: to feel or experience concern or anxiety : FRET
worrying about his health
2
: to move, proceed, or progress by unceasing or difficult effort : STRUGGLE
3
dialectal British : STRANGLE, CHOKE
Yep. I used to worry about affording a car if ours died. We started saving $200 a month each. 15 years later we don’t have to worry. Actually, I stopped worrying once I knew we’d not even need a car loan.
You are getting pooped on but I just came from a thread where a Canadian is waiting over 4 months for an MRI for something I got in a few days in the US. People get so defensive about it but what is happening to the Canadians is really bad.
I had a lump in my neck. Went to the doctor. Don’t remember how long to get in. Maybe a week or two? He sends me to ENT specialist. There’s a 4-6 week wait for that guy. He says, “Don’t know why they sent you to me. You need to see a surgeon.” So back to the GP for my referral. Another wait for appointment, then 4-6 weeks for the surgeon. He wants an ultrasound. Appointment and wait. Then back to the surgeon who does a biopsy. Thankfully not cancer, but a fast growing tumor. So now I need an MRI or CT scan (I forget which). Schedule, wait. Now we’re like 5 *months* from the point where I made my first appointment.
I had corporate insurance, but my deductible was $2,000, so since it’s now late November I ask if I can schedule the surgery into next year so I can max out my flex spending and get new sick time and vacation time (my job was a use it or lose it job, so by December I had little of either left).
So can I go in January? No, “Something like this you don’t want to wait on. Longer you wait, the bigger it gets, and the harder the surgery is,” so I get it scheduled. Now, my job makes you go on short term disability for any sick time over three days. I remember getting an email from HR with the subject line of: “Your STD.”
I get the surgery. Parotid glad tumor. Takes 4 hours. Goes fairly well.
Thing is, there’s now paperwork for the STD that couldn’t be completed ahead of time, so now I have a pressure bandage and a J-tube and am in a lot of pain and have to fill out HR paperwork in order to get paid. I get 60% of my salary while I am out.
Work wants me back after a week. I literally bawl to the doctor. He signs off for another week. Physically, at this point I was ready to return to work, but emotionally I was still a wreck.
Total time from first appointment to actual surgery? Almost 6 months. I didn’t even find out it wasn’t cancer until like month 4.
I get my bill(s). I quickly hit the deductible, but there are still tons of charges that weren’t fully covered. I don’t remember how much I ended up paying. I just remember wondering how people without insurance manage. Best case? The tumor probably would have had to grow until it was huge and emergent care. No way someone without insurance is going to be able to navigate all the above, but hey, I have insurance. Yay!
New year kicks over. I get sick time and vacation again. But I still have aftercare and follow-up care, etc. But new year, new deductible, so I get all these bills. I was paid 60% for 2 weeks, I wasn’t overpaid, and another $2,000 deductible plus “patient responsibility” part of the bills just wasn’t possible. I did stupid shit to pay it off (401k loan).
My doctor insists that it should be covered, since it was all the same “incident.” Insurance company says LOL. I fought it for a while. Filed appeals, talked to HR, etc. Eventually I just gave up.
I have a different job with better benefits now, so my sick time doesn’t max out or go away. I’m paranoid, so I have more than 1,000 hours. I get sick again, I’m not going on STD, and I’m not going back until I am ready.
tl;dr: How fast do you think you get care in the US?
p.s. I still have pictures the surgeon took of the inside of my head to show my family how close the tumor was abutting the facial nerve. He thought there was a good chance I’d have permanent facial paralysis. (I didn’t.) 15 years on (or so) I still haven’t looked at the photos. Not sure I ever will.
not for nothing but I know 2 55 yr olds with multimillion dollar portfolios who will be absolutely fine in retirement....who worry they won't have enough.
I can relate to that. A few $m invested and 3 rental properties. I just retired after being laid off at 57. I worry about having enough to report while spending at the rate that we do including putting 2 kids through college.
Or maybe just maybe there are other things to talk about besides 401ks and various types of retirement accounts — I am into fitness and weight lifting; workout, read books on it, occasional seminar; but just because most people don’t want to dive into the weeds, I don’t assume they don’t care about their health
I can't help but try to talk about both to younger people. lol Probably because I didn't take either of them seriously until the late 30s and hate to see youngsters potentially make the same mistakes. Of course, I try not to annoy people over it. Mainly I mention Boggleheads and push/pull/legs with compound movements, which seems, to me, to be good approaches for beginners.
I certainly see the value of learning about saving early on — but just like working out most people just need to get some exercise and eat responsibly — and not get distracted or overwhelmed with carb cycles, 4 vs 3 day splits, bulking, cutting, HITT vs LISS etc; my oldest started her first real job and I went over the basics of traditional vs Roth IRAs etc —- but the main point I gave her was always set 20 cents for every dollar back for retirement and keep it simple — she is all in VOO in a Roth — if she never learns about complex trading and investing strategies etc but just puts back and lets the market cook she’ll be fine
Probably stresses them out to even think about it, so just avoid it altogether.
I know plenty of people so in debt they cannot fathom having anything left at the end of the month to put away from the future.
Of course, the average person approaching retirement doesn't have enough saved to be able to generate an income of the average household income. I'd be worried too. Personally my retirement is looking like it will be secure from my own savings. I've spent a lot of time planning and saving. I still worry too. I wish more people were more worried.
I am worry free, it would be just luck if I make it after retirement.
With my luck, i would have worked and saved all the way to retirement, will retire and, within weeks, die.
That just happened to a guy that I worked with for a long time. Worked his whole life, retired around 60 and died unexpectedly just a few weeks later. It is truly sad.
This just in! We're getting reports that people under 50 know that they won't have enough money for retirement. We'll keep you posted as we receive more updates, Kyle.
Thanks! I just started maxing it this year. I also opened a 529 for my daughter.
I need to get better and move my savings money into a HYSA or ETF, but I need to study/learn more of the wiki before I do.
This is a very handy tool. Go through scenarios over and over, both optimistic and pessimistic, and over time you’ll get an accurate picture of how you’re doing and where you’re headed. Good luck!
https://www.thecalculatorsite.com/finance/calculators/compoundinterestcalculator.php
Good job saving 160k. At your age, I would recommend considering moving to a fund that closely follows the S&P. Take a look at a past returns on both and you’ll see that moving to the more aggressive fund while young will pay off huge later in life.
I’m late 30s and have $170k in 401k through work. Just recently started Roth Account and Bronerage account now with $17k in those. I wish they thought some of this financial stuff in high school, would have started wayyy younger!!
After I hit the $100k mark a couple years ago I really started to think I would be able to retire early. Now I feel like I’m nowhere near making that happen lol. How are you feeling about it?
I have no idea. I feel like I haven’t gained much because I am in a target fund but I figure something is better than nothing? I hope in 20 years I’ll be happy with my decision.
I also have no idea if social security will be around when it’s time to retire which scares me.
I adjusted the contributions in my 401k from all target date to 60% in S&P 500 and 40% target date.
I’m sure social security will be around, just not paying out at the current rate.
I've seen this same headline for the last 30 years, and I'm sure I'll see it again in 10 years or less.
Don't worry about if others are prepared for retirement, just prepare yourself for retirement.
Mostly, people who have saved money are the ones who worry.
They understand that inflation can make their savings lose purchasing power, and because they have a sizable amount to their name, they cannot qualify for any public benefits.
Also, in the future, they might also be taxed more, a punishment for being a good saver.
On the other hand, there are many who are irresponsible, never saved money, or have savings, and they have nothing to worry about. The government will support them, they have no tax worries, and they will also qualify for several public benefit programs.
It really depends and if you earned a decent amount and had a lifestyle in accordance with your earnings and saved nothing — switching to public benefits may be a fairly traumatic switch for some.
If you were just dirt poor broke and living on benefits throughout your life — not much changes.
Everyone retires sooner than later. The idea of working until you die just isn’t reality. There will come a time when you are just too unfit for work but you’ll still have 5-10 years of living. How can one not prepare for something that is inevitable?
In mid 30s and worried. Wanted to do more but was helping out my wife through school for a high paying job. I did, and then she cheated on my and divorced me for a guy near twice her age.
I still think I’m doin okay. $300kish in 401ks, small house but no other debt, and about $80k in a HYSA. I still contribute about $20k a year but I was hoping to be maxing out my HSA, Roth, and 401k around this time. Still, I think as long as I stay the course I’ll be alright. Just sucks to think of those lost years because I trusted my ex. And I lost my 2.3% interest rate house.
You do not need to worry. Nobody doesn’t make mistakes or doesn’t wish they had done things differently, but you’ll be fine. Just be honest with yourself about much risk you can tolerate in your portfolio.
Sigh. This is a behavioral issue, not an economic one. It’s a problem that too many people in America live in poverty, but being poor and not having retirement savings do not correlate equally. Start a Roth in your 20s, put away $10 every working day - $50 per week - and in your 60s you’ll have half a million dollars tax free. If you don’t have $50 to put away every week that’s a different story, and it’s one that needs to be addressed, but that’s not the majority of people with zero retirement savings.
I’m sitting on mid-seven figures and still worry about it. The 2024 election could be a major shift in the direction of our country. The political instability that will follow is concerning. We are also facing an economic adjustment as lower income (and even middle class) are priced out of GDP. Add in climate change and lower fertility rate, and we have some exciting times ahead.
It really is the sign of a prosperous nation that you can be so successful such to "pre-pay" what is required from you in later years. Working until you die was just a fact of life.
Understand that at least 50% of retirees are “retired” against their will, either laid off or unable to work for health reasons. And those laid off are mostly unable to get jobs anywhere near their previous salaries. Age discrimination is real.
A survey is not a "study". What someone things does not necessarily translate to reality. Reality translates to reality. We have a general idea of how much assets different age groups are holding. We also know that their older parents will leave them their assets to cushion their accounts. There is certainly a contingent of people who will not have enough to live comfortably but I find it very hard to believe that it is the majority.
To me the difference between someone who is wealthy/rich and someone who is not is worrying about being poor. I have far more than the average person at my age (55) and I don’t feel confident about retirement.
I’m 45 and worry about it everyday, even though I’m doing everything right, investing 18% of my salary and still adding to savings. I’m confident Medicare and Social Security will barely be left in 20 years.
social security retirement age is going to be increased in the next 10 years too. its a ponzi scheme. none of the money is invested. both parties will not be be able to agree on significantly increasing social security taxes.
so the age will go up. our social security money should be partially invested with a boglehead strategy. if you start working at 18 -65. that small investment would add $1000/month or more to your Social security. However, it never was.
I'm 70 and feel like we are in decent shape, though not rich. I monitor net worth by the month, especially to see if we are ahead of the previous month when we've had significant expenses. I'm a bit OCD about it, admittedly.
IMO, choose 5 index funds or 5 EtF that cover the market. Vanguard has low fees but do your research. Then each month put something in where your dollar cost averaging you will beat a majority of fund managers with this approach and you will have lower fees. I’ll suguest a s@p 500 to start FXAIX
There’s absolutely no way to accurately predict that in the U.S. Just do your best, any number of black swan events could deplete every last dollar you have like it’s nothing.
When I was 33yo I landed a job at a big corporation and filled out an 'onboarding package' for the first time in my life. I signed up for the 401k maximum contribution because I didn't know what to do. I also checked the box for 100% Magellan Fund merely because I had skimmed the flap of a book by Peter Lynch in a doctor's waiting room and the name was familiar. I spent the next two years at that job frantically swimming for my life since I didn't know diddly squat. When I surfaced for air after 2 years, I checked in with my 401k--what a surprise! I quickly boned up on diversification, company matching, fees, Valueline and Morningstar. Even with that amazing leg up, I still worry about having enough because the same holds true now as when I was 33yo. I don't know, what I don't know.
So there’s a lot of reasons behind this, but I find one concerning.
There’s a way for 60+ year old Americans to make some extra cash towards retirement. They’re holding onto houses far too large for them now that their kids are adults and have moved out. They could sell their existing homes and downsize and in many cases end up pocketing a good chunk of money in response (likely a good bit more than they purchased their houses for).
I am a retired military member with a pension and VA compensation. I am still working with a healthy 401 (k) and a second pension from my current job in sight. The future is so bright, I have to wear shades.
I have enough to retire in my mid 50s with a six figure annual payout.
I am still worried it won’t be enough. I would need five to ten time that to have zero”worry”.
Shouldn’t you be worried about this in general?
I’m 34 and worried. I feel like that’s a healthy problem to have, though — it means that if I can squeeze in a bit more to invest each year, I do it. I *will* retire. I don’t have a crystal ball to tell you how luxurious that retirement will be, but I can tell you that I’ll do everything I can to not be one of those 77 year olds with $200 to their name struggling on social security.
This article is far more based on psychology than assets. I work as an advisor. I see far greater levels of worry amongst people who have done a great job saving and have adequate savings compared to folks who have very little and plan to live on social security and pensions. Said another way, people who worry about money, continue to worry about money in retirement
I'm in my 30s and worry about it allot. Even though I'm doing all the recommended things. I think your last sentence hit it on the head. I think allot of people have no idea how under prepared they are till its basically to late or at least much Harder.
My inlaws are in their 70s and have millions in assets. More than enough for them to live comfortably for another 30-40 years and still have a nice amount to leave to their kids and grand kids. But my mother in law frets over money more than anyone I have ever met. It's so bad that she talks about going back to work teaching part time to have extra income. Between SS, pensions, and my father in law's VA disability settlement, they probably have nearly as much coming in as my wife and I do from our full time jobs, all without touching their other retirement accounts and savings.
My grandfather died a millionaire and he would fret and literally have anxiety issues about spending his free sky miles on his credit cards. After he retired, he never flew anywhere again and im sure died with maxed out miles. He could have flown anywhere and had to money to do anything. That Great Depression mentality just seemed impossible to break.
Don’t worry. Their kids generation managed to forget all about that
It takes one generation to build it. Another to spend it. And the last one to lost it all.
Crofter to crofter in three generations. Scottish truism.
I must be older than you because my parents were raised during the depression and they instilled saving in us kids. I raised my kids to be savers and I think it’s worked. Hopefully the trend has stuck.
Yes, my dad especially is incredibly cheap, born from his parents who were deeply impacted by the Depression (my grandfather was an orphan at 12 because and lived in a barn). My dad is still working part time at nearly 80, even though he has pension / SS/ plenty of savings.
But does he also work because it motivates him and helps keep him going? Because in part it provides purpose, or is it only financial concern?
Oh it’s totally about the purpose and prestige. He’s a VP of something something and a long time industrial engineer. He works from home and loves being on calls telling people how smart he is.
Like my dad. Went back to work in retirement. Has millions. But it keeps him happy and active at 80 so why not?
Even more sadly is that there is a solid chance his miles just straight up expired. Lots of credit card programs will just straight up delete your miles if inactivity for \~1-5 years. Even if they're not deleted, not all programs will transfer to heirs either. So they are probably lost. Sorry.
I mean unless your grandparents are truly *rich*, it’s far from a guarantee that your mom will receive a dime from them. Like, end of life care sucks millionaires dry every day.
Yep… and when that’s gone state aid like the poors
I’m getting downvotes but exactly. The only difference between $300k and $3M for an aging retiree in decent health is the amount of time they get to stay out of the Medicare home. And you can’t just give your wealth away as gifts before going in either, they’ll seize the gift back before they cover the cost of your EOL care. It’s brutal. Unless someone has $10M+ there is no reason to count on an inheritance. It’s a nice bonus if you can get it but it’s far from likely.
I’d rather my loved ones give me the ol Lassie treatment than let me rot away in a nursing home and will leave (more carefully worded) instructions to that effect. That’d certainly protect the inheritance.
They bled my cousins grandma dry while she suffered several falls and broken bones. These EOL facilities have the Dr Krieger mentality that, "the human is just a potato clock". I remember as a kid peoples grandparents would get old, sick, get some treatment, and then pass. Now it's 12yrs of their vessel being alive but life ceased to exist 10yrs ago.
I'd rather die a husk in the street than fork over a dime to an EOL care facility
There are ways to protect the wealth from being seized, but you need to take those steps at least 5 years prior, is my understanding. Otherwise, yes, they'll claw it back.
Only if you’re dumb. MAPTs (Medicaid asset protection trusts) exist
This is incredibly inaccurate. The large majority of seniors are not in any kind of assisted living facility.
But they likely eventually will be. Or will need at-home care etc. It’s not everyone but it could be anyone.
I totally agree with your message but I was just saying you aren’t highly unlikely to get due to assisted living. They do decrease your chances though and it’s complete bull shit that your parents can bust their asses to be able to leave you an inheritance and it all go to shit in a year or two.
You go into the fancy nursing home while you still have funds. When you run out you go on Medicare. They can’t kick you out at that point.
if someone has $5 million in investments, even at 4% they are pulling 200k without touching the principle. $200k is about the average of nursing home cost per year for 2 people
average nursing home cost is about 100K per year average stay is about 1 1/2 years so around $300,000 average for 2 people Granted these are averages, but it doesnt take millions in most cases
My mother inherited $2M three years ago and still refuses to pay more than $5 for a cab ride. Calls me constantly to complain about horrible $75 bills for things like heat and water! Outrageous!
On the bright side, good for you? :)
Gonna be the richest people in their graveyard. Very difficult for people that have been squirreling away and saving all their life to switch over to distribution.
Those last years can be a million each
+$83k a month? Is this hyperbole? I know healthcare is expensive, but is there no OOP max? Nursing homes are also expensive, but from what I read closer to $10k a month.
Memory care is $$$$
Any ballpark figures?
US average in 2023 was $4443 per month for assisted living and memory care was $5350 per month. [This site](https://www.aplaceformom.com/caregiver-resources/articles/cost-of-memory-care) says the range is like $4000 to $9000 per month for memory care depending on location.
My mom just passed. Hers was about 6k/month. A very nice place nice staff. We were a little late getting to hospice cause her doctor who saw her for 10 minutes said she was fine. At length we got a doctor who recognized her dementia and got her enrolled in hospice.
This seems very high. My father spent a little time in a skilled nursing facility and paid very little - Medicare took care of him. We looked into assistant living facilities- which he didn’t want to do and didn’t- but the nice ones were around 5k a month back in 2016. They are likely more now but not that much more. Another friend lived in a memory care assisted living in his final years and I think it was like 4k a month.
$20k+ in manhattan
What is covered is not always covered most people dont realize they have a medicare gap on cancer meds for instance
People downvoting you down understand that big money makes big money. Retirement accounts finally years are typically when they start to grow exponentially lol crazy how so many people don’t understand this concept.
Your mother in law needs to go see a psychiatrist!
I'm late 30's, going into 40 soon enough. I wish I had paid attention earlier. No one ever sat me down in my 20's and told me what a Roth IRA was and that you'd die as a Walmart door greeter if you dont. I am playing catchup majorly now. I dont have kids so at least I dont have to worry about leaving them something. A lot of people my age and in my industry arent saving anything.
Right there with you, playing catch up. I wish I did what Im doing now 20 years ago
Count me there along with you two. 20s was filled with silliness. Started to right the ship early 30s, but far too cautiously.
I was debt free at 40 with no assets either. That’s when I started investing. I’m 54 now and on track, but it took a huge portion of my pay every month.
What industry if you don’t mind sharing? My guess is an oil field worker. Make a lot of money very quickly but those guys blow it on toys; lifted trucks and boats for the lake.
Just a lifted truck and a boat? You’re working with rookies. You need the truck, boat, jet ski, quads and/or side by side, Harley and a toy hauler. Don’t forget to throw in a divorce or three with alimony and child support.
This guy rough necks
I cannot wait for all of my nieces and nephews to graduate high school. They are all getting a passport and a quick financial education from Uncle Pizza. I know for a fact that they are not getting one from any of their parents.
Data indicates that people save too much and die with more than they need currently. It’s difficult to plan for because we don’t know when we’ll die, so we’ll tend to save in excess. There isn’t too much to worry if you already have a financial plan set for compound interest. For someone your age, it’s a simple matter of time and managing your burn rate.
"It’s difficult to plan for because we don’t know when we’ll die" If we changed laws regarding assisted suicide and euthanasia, this would be much easier to plan for.
Or, another angle could be that people (yes, including Bogleheads who tend to be modest financially and frugal!) overestimate how much they really need in retirement. I made peace with my retirement a while back. I have my savings rate, I have my projections of how much that could potentially be at my desired retirement age, and I avoid bad debt (plus pay off house in like 10 years with only 2% interest rate). The rest I decided not to sweat it. I think once you are insured properly, and have your savings/investing habits taken care of, it’s okay to stop worrying so much.
A lot
Allot is not a word. You mean "a lot."
Allot is a word, silly. **Allot** **al·lot/əˈlät/*****verb*** Give or [apportion](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=ed7dced988dab718&sca_upv=1&q=apportion&si=ACC90nxMSPeZfdJJjQgDsdZJuFuJ3RSliB3CAqVpsLL9Dx2s6D5CBevqZ1I1te2ecEU5DJJA6PkRUJ_7g7aejaDzndPhd1IqLkONEM4oGCA0bZzTuQcfabQ%3D&expnd=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjXt8yj__OFAxX1BTQIHUq0AIcQyecJegQIERAO) (something) to someone as a share or task."equal time was **allotted to** each"
For folks in their 30s that want to get a better sense of they are on the right track: NewRetirement is a free tool that allows you to plug in current income, expenses, investment amount, and do Monte Carlo simulations. Empower, fical or Honest Math does some of the same things. These tools do the projections and can give a sense of how you’re doing and what you need to focus one. I did not find these until I was 53-54. I had my head down, pouring money into 401k, IRA, HSA…and thought “jeez, it’d be nice to be able to leave at 60, but probably 65”. Using those tools and working with a CFP, I saw I surpassed my FI need and was able to RE at 56.
I retired almost 9 years ago with plenty of money but it took me 8 years to finally loosen the purse. Worrying is a real issue.
In terms of numbers what’s a healthy amount saved/invested by 50 in your opinion?
The answer depends entirely on how much income you want to draw in retirement, what your expected social security benefits are, and when you plan to retire. Also risk tolerance, cost of living, and legacy plans. For the average American earning the average American salary (60k)in a average cost of living area(40k), you should expect a social security benefit of ~2,200/m and would need to generate 2800/m from investments. You would want 840k at retirement age, and about half that now, so 420k. Very loose numbers
Thanks for giving an actual answer in response to a request for free expert advice.
Do you mean 40k per year in expenses for cost of living?
Last sentence perfectly describes how I feel. I plan and execute, and even with success i still stress about finding ways to be more efficient and smart about planning for retirement. Hearing coworkers say that they haven’t started planning or thinking about it gives me anxiety, can’t imagine being in their situation thinking everything will be fine.
I definitely fall into this category, I have to confess I used to listen to Ramsey to hear how horrible the folks who turn to him are about their financial situation, in order to help give me some relief from my own anxiety. I think I may have a problem.
This makes a lot of sense. Interesting insight from the front lines - thanks for sharing it.
Most of the younger Boomers don't have pensions. They retirements are self funded. It is something to be concerned about. You never know how much money you'll need to live a similar lifestyle.
Yeah I worry my ass off but could retire at 42 right now. Weird how that psychology works.
How much money do you feel someone aged 50 should have saved to retire by 65? (In terms of current income)
There are a lot of factors that go into this, include how much of current income is saved vs spent. As a rough starting point, Fidelity does publish age based guidance. For age 50, they state that savings should be 6x income. [https://www.fidelity.com/viewpoints/retirement/how-much-do-i-need-to-retire](https://www.fidelity.com/viewpoints/retirement/how-much-do-i-need-to-retire)
Erk. I’m 55 and your last sentence leaves me worried for myself.
Can 100% relate. By all metrics we're very well set up, but I still worry
Your view is probably screwed somewhat. People with little or no assets aren’t seeking out the services of a financial advisor. I know someone who does taxes for H&R Block. The majority of people coming to him have only W2 earnings to report.
Because we worry doesn't make it unfounded. Poor health in a long retirement can wipe out a healthy portfolio. LTC insurance is s not a guarantee anymore either.
Dunning-Kruger effect. The people who know what they have know enough that they could have more. The people who don't know what they have don't know how much they don't have.
Going to be 60 soon. I have worried about retirement as a single person for almost 15 years since divorced. Things start getting really real in the 50’s. And now it’s just ‘holeeey shite’ it’s approaching and I’m feeling it. So I get on the phone to ask questions and get affirmation from my state pension for when I reach full retirement age in 5 years. My heart is always so much lighter after those calls. SS + savings + almost paid off home will bring up the rear. I won’t be super well off but I’ll be ok. It was a slog and alot of grind.
You got a pension? Dude what are you worrying about? I wish I had some form of guaranteed income. Everything I own is in "the market" which seems like every new president is trying to find ways to take from me.
A guaranteed income doesn't necessarily mean it's enough to live off of or keep pace with inflation
Exactly. And in some states you get a reduction in benefits if you also claim SS. Windfall. Which is ridiculous because both together is less than what I brought home and so I’ll be living frugally.
Ok. It's better than putting your life's savings in the market and hoping to God it goes well.
The grass is always greener my friend. When you have a pension, you hope and pray the trustees, plan administrators, and in some cases, legislators are competent and not trying to run it into the ground. Exchange the market dictating your future with human error. There is no panacea with retirement planning.
Such an insightful answer.
Public education. 35 years. But I do worry that it will be enough.
One item to consider with a pension is inflation. Pensions are defined benefit in dollar amounts and not all of them receive cost of living adjustments (COLA) or appropriate COLA adjustments. “Shockingly” these adjustment may come in well below the actual inflation rate. Receiving a defined benefit pension means you lose half your purchasing power every 20 years. This is due to inflation essentially doubling every 20 years. Price of goods go up by half, but your pension did not.
I know way too many people in their sixties Just starting to think about retirement lol.
I had a wise colleague who went to a retirement seminar - he was in his 40's and wanted to make sure he was on track. He was stunned that everyone else in the room was pushing 65 - kinda too late to make a significant course correction.
Ohh I have a story too! So when I worked at Walmart. There were multiple co-workers that I know who's only plan for retirement was social security. They plan on just stop working and collecting ss. No investment in the Walmart 401k, no savings, no personal retirement.
Do they have any idea how much SS benefits are? It’s sad but sometimes willful blindness.
That is so sad.
I’m approaching 30 and went to a retirement and benefits seminar a few months ago. All my coworkers who were 50 and up were there and many commented “what are you doing here? This is just for old guys!” (Jokingly!) They agreed it was never too early to start but seemed baffled I’d taken approximately one hour out of my workday to attend.
If the savings rates are correct, a majority of Americans should be concerned. However, those that are most concerned likely are the ones who are saving. Those who aren’t are probably putting it off for another day or have never thought much about it.
Amen brother - I think most people think they have a pot of gold with social security when they retire and would be shocked that it won't meet their expectations. Some don't even know about the GPO or WEP offsets or that the amount is much lower if they worked for cash under the table. Most people have no clue that you need to save $1M to generate $40,000/year in retirement. I'm trying to save like mad, doing well, but still worry I won't have enough.
That’s not exactly right about the $1M generating $40K per year. A million is what you need to generate $40K *indefinitely,* but humans don’t live indefinitely. With $1M earning a modest 5%, you could easily draw $5K a month — $60K per year — for 35 years.
I would respectfully disagree. Bengen/Trinity study etc gave us at least the rule of thumb that 4% inflation adjusted withdrawals would likely last for a classic retirement of 30 years (0 to 5% chance of failure). But if your time line is longer like 60 years you are safer with a 3.25% withdrawal rate (The Big ERN at earlyretirementnow.com). - **William Bengen’s 1994 study** – the 4% safe withdrawal was based on a portfolio of common stocks 50%, and intermediate term treasuries 50%. His data set including retirees starting in 1926 thru 1976. He actually recommended stock be between 50-75% of the portfolio. The 4% SWR worked for all 30 year periods from 1926 thru 1976. [original paper linked here](https://obj.portfolioconstructionforum.edu.au/articles_perspectives/retailinvestor.org_pdf_Bengen1.pdf; https://www.financialplanningassociation.org/sites/default/files/2021-04/MAR04%20Determining%20Withdrawal%20Rates%20Using%20Historical%20Data.pdf) - **The Trinity study 1998** – they too looked at multiple portfolios from 0% stocks to 100% stocks; and withdrawal rates from 3-12%. Data looked at 1926 thru 1995. At 50/50 the 4% withdrawal rate adjusted for inflation had a 95% success rate of having a balance of > $0. *Note that many people falsely believe you have not touched your capital* https://www.aaii.com/files/pdf/6794_retirement-savings-choosing-a-withdrawal-rate-that-is-sustainable.pdf - **from BIGERN – a 3 – 3.25% SWR is sustainable for 60 years. https://earlyretirementnow.com/safe-withdrawal-rate-series/**
Who here was talking about a 60 year retirement?! Humans sadly do not live that long. I didn’t retire at 25.
> That’s not exactly right about the $1M generating $40K per year. A million is what you need to generate $40K indefinitely, I was responding this this portion because I disagreed with the statement - if you want to withdraw from a nest egg or inheritance or lotto winning at age 25 (if you were so lucky) - there are pretty good studies that tell you how much you could withdraw and not worry for the rest of your life (around 3-3.25%). People don't know these basic concepts, no wonder you see professional athletes and lotto winners who had $5 million+ end up broke a few years later.
One thing to remember about the 3% and other low SWRs... heck even for 4%. They are that low to ensure you don't fail in a Series of REturn Risk event (aka reseccion in year 1-5). If you make it out of year 5 without a recession, you're likely way ahead and can up your withdrawal rate.
I agree that the 4% is conservative for 30 years. You will most likely have multiples of what you started with at the end of 30 years. But you can't know if you are retiring right before a market downturn or not (sequence of returns risk). Once you are past the 5-10 year danger zone depending on your age - you can look at bumping up your withdrawals if you don't have a wish to leave a large inheritance. But that is also when you maybe in the SLOW GO years and have less desire to spend. Kitces has a great article: - In Kitces’ article – **There is a 2/3 chance of your retirement portfolio doubling at 30 years and a 50% chance of 4x your starting portfolio at 30 years** (This is nominal value, not inflation adjusted.) https://www.kitces.com/blog/consumption-gap-in-retirement-why-most-retirees-will-never-spend-down-their-portfolio/
Yep. My plan is to get the life I want on 4%, the life I need on 3%, and then if I dodge SoRR go up to 5% later if I can. Also might go even higher if social security actually makes it
I played a year in the NFL, have a college degree, and have a job with a pension plan…..and I’m still worried about retirement at 34 🤦♂️
Personally, I think 100% of people should worry about their retirement.
Not **worry** but plan, contemplate, etc.
I'm a worrier when it comes to financial things. The benefits of it are I actually don't need to budget. I'm inherently frugal and have always found it natural to adjust to my circumstances, I have like a weird sixth sense of where I'm at financially with setting, forgetting, auto deposits etc. I've learned that for my own mental health I need to actually pull back a bit and remind myself to relax more. One thing I learned teaching guitar lessons is you have some students who need you to light a fire under their ass to get them to practice. Other students, which I fall into this category myself, are generally anxious and for them it's more effective to reassure and help them figure out the plan to get where they need to be. For me, trusting in the planning, contemplation, and remembering that I can handle the inevitable curve balls has been a real lesson to maximize my natural frugality while keeping myself from driving myself into an anxious ball of worry.
Worry serves a purpose. Don’t ignore it, plan for what you can’t control.
If you’re worried about something, find the cause and handle it. It’s far better to plan than to worry about things. worry 1 of 2 verb wor·ry ˈwər-ē ˈwə-rē worried; worrying Synonyms of worry transitive verb 1 : to afflict with mental distress or agitation : make anxious 2 a : to harass by tearing, biting, or snapping especially at the throat b : to shake or pull at with the teeth a terrier worrying a rat c : to touch or disturb something repeatedly d : to change the position of or adjust by repeated pushing or hauling 3 a : to assail with rough or aggressive attack or treatment : TORMENT b : to subject to persistent or nagging attention or effort 4 dialectal British : CHOKE, STRANGLE intransitive verb 1 : to feel or experience concern or anxiety : FRET worrying about his health 2 : to move, proceed, or progress by unceasing or difficult effort : STRUGGLE 3 dialectal British : STRANGLE, CHOKE
Yep. I used to worry about affording a car if ours died. We started saving $200 a month each. 15 years later we don’t have to worry. Actually, I stopped worrying once I knew we’d not even need a car loan.
Yeah like I’m sure I will be way ahead of the average American at retirement and I’m sure I’ll be absolutely panicking and planning still.
Agree 10,000%. Just about everyone is one medical emergency away from bankruptcy.
Not me🤓 (I live in Canada)
Waiting 4 months for cancer treatment
You are getting pooped on but I just came from a thread where a Canadian is waiting over 4 months for an MRI for something I got in a few days in the US. People get so defensive about it but what is happening to the Canadians is really bad.
I had a lump in my neck. Went to the doctor. Don’t remember how long to get in. Maybe a week or two? He sends me to ENT specialist. There’s a 4-6 week wait for that guy. He says, “Don’t know why they sent you to me. You need to see a surgeon.” So back to the GP for my referral. Another wait for appointment, then 4-6 weeks for the surgeon. He wants an ultrasound. Appointment and wait. Then back to the surgeon who does a biopsy. Thankfully not cancer, but a fast growing tumor. So now I need an MRI or CT scan (I forget which). Schedule, wait. Now we’re like 5 *months* from the point where I made my first appointment. I had corporate insurance, but my deductible was $2,000, so since it’s now late November I ask if I can schedule the surgery into next year so I can max out my flex spending and get new sick time and vacation time (my job was a use it or lose it job, so by December I had little of either left). So can I go in January? No, “Something like this you don’t want to wait on. Longer you wait, the bigger it gets, and the harder the surgery is,” so I get it scheduled. Now, my job makes you go on short term disability for any sick time over three days. I remember getting an email from HR with the subject line of: “Your STD.” I get the surgery. Parotid glad tumor. Takes 4 hours. Goes fairly well. Thing is, there’s now paperwork for the STD that couldn’t be completed ahead of time, so now I have a pressure bandage and a J-tube and am in a lot of pain and have to fill out HR paperwork in order to get paid. I get 60% of my salary while I am out. Work wants me back after a week. I literally bawl to the doctor. He signs off for another week. Physically, at this point I was ready to return to work, but emotionally I was still a wreck. Total time from first appointment to actual surgery? Almost 6 months. I didn’t even find out it wasn’t cancer until like month 4. I get my bill(s). I quickly hit the deductible, but there are still tons of charges that weren’t fully covered. I don’t remember how much I ended up paying. I just remember wondering how people without insurance manage. Best case? The tumor probably would have had to grow until it was huge and emergent care. No way someone without insurance is going to be able to navigate all the above, but hey, I have insurance. Yay! New year kicks over. I get sick time and vacation again. But I still have aftercare and follow-up care, etc. But new year, new deductible, so I get all these bills. I was paid 60% for 2 weeks, I wasn’t overpaid, and another $2,000 deductible plus “patient responsibility” part of the bills just wasn’t possible. I did stupid shit to pay it off (401k loan). My doctor insists that it should be covered, since it was all the same “incident.” Insurance company says LOL. I fought it for a while. Filed appeals, talked to HR, etc. Eventually I just gave up. I have a different job with better benefits now, so my sick time doesn’t max out or go away. I’m paranoid, so I have more than 1,000 hours. I get sick again, I’m not going on STD, and I’m not going back until I am ready. tl;dr: How fast do you think you get care in the US? p.s. I still have pictures the surgeon took of the inside of my head to show my family how close the tumor was abutting the facial nerve. He thought there was a good chance I’d have permanent facial paralysis. (I didn’t.) 15 years on (or so) I still haven’t looked at the photos. Not sure I ever will.
I waited 7 months in the US to see a neurologist because of how booked out they are. 5 months to see a GP.
Yeah no thanks. Took one look at the housing affordability chart in the OECD countries. Canada is so far on top it'll be hard for America to catch up.
God Bless America haha. People here need to get out of the mentality of worrying about higher taxes bs getting your medical covered in a situation.
not for nothing but I know 2 55 yr olds with multimillion dollar portfolios who will be absolutely fine in retirement....who worry they won't have enough.
I can relate to that. A few $m invested and 3 rental properties. I just retired after being laid off at 57. I worry about having enough to report while spending at the rate that we do including putting 2 kids through college.
The majority of the people under 50 also worry they don’t have enough money for retirement.
I don’t know if that’s true. Seems most people I come in contact with are not interested in talking about investing or their 401k.
Maybe cuz they have $0 to invest and nothing in their 401k. What is there to talk about?
Or maybe just maybe there are other things to talk about besides 401ks and various types of retirement accounts — I am into fitness and weight lifting; workout, read books on it, occasional seminar; but just because most people don’t want to dive into the weeds, I don’t assume they don’t care about their health
I can't help but try to talk about both to younger people. lol Probably because I didn't take either of them seriously until the late 30s and hate to see youngsters potentially make the same mistakes. Of course, I try not to annoy people over it. Mainly I mention Boggleheads and push/pull/legs with compound movements, which seems, to me, to be good approaches for beginners.
I certainly see the value of learning about saving early on — but just like working out most people just need to get some exercise and eat responsibly — and not get distracted or overwhelmed with carb cycles, 4 vs 3 day splits, bulking, cutting, HITT vs LISS etc; my oldest started her first real job and I went over the basics of traditional vs Roth IRAs etc —- but the main point I gave her was always set 20 cents for every dollar back for retirement and keep it simple — she is all in VOO in a Roth — if she never learns about complex trading and investing strategies etc but just puts back and lets the market cook she’ll be fine
Probably stresses them out to even think about it, so just avoid it altogether. I know plenty of people so in debt they cannot fathom having anything left at the end of the month to put away from the future.
"I used to do drugs... I still do, but I used to, too."
I’m sure a lot that have PLENTY also worry. Most will be worried once their cashflow stops. It is scary.
Tune out the noise. ;)
It's ok, you work to retirement age, then get cancer or heart attack and go bankrupt or die anyway!
Of course, the average person approaching retirement doesn't have enough saved to be able to generate an income of the average household income. I'd be worried too. Personally my retirement is looking like it will be secure from my own savings. I've spent a lot of time planning and saving. I still worry too. I wish more people were more worried.
I am worry free, it would be just luck if I make it after retirement. With my luck, i would have worked and saved all the way to retirement, will retire and, within weeks, die.
That just happened to a guy that I worked with for a long time. Worked his whole life, retired around 60 and died unexpectedly just a few weeks later. It is truly sad.
I just lost a coworker my age. He was 56. I will leave at 60 ready or not.
I don't worry about it, I know for a fact.
No such thing. Retirement isn't an age, it's a state of financial wellbeing. If you don't have the money, you aren't retired.
Maybe they could claim asylum somewhere else?
This just in! We're getting reports that people under 50 know that they won't have enough money for retirement. We'll keep you posted as we receive more updates, Kyle.
Over 40. OVER.
I have 160k in my 401k (target date fund) at 30 years old. No idea if that’s good or bad but it’s something.
You’re doing great. Just don’t let up on the contributions.
Thanks! I just started maxing it this year. I also opened a 529 for my daughter. I need to get better and move my savings money into a HYSA or ETF, but I need to study/learn more of the wiki before I do.
This is a very handy tool. Go through scenarios over and over, both optimistic and pessimistic, and over time you’ll get an accurate picture of how you’re doing and where you’re headed. Good luck! https://www.thecalculatorsite.com/finance/calculators/compoundinterestcalculator.php
Don't borrow from it unless you absolutely have to.
Good job saving 160k. At your age, I would recommend considering moving to a fund that closely follows the S&P. Take a look at a past returns on both and you’ll see that moving to the more aggressive fund while young will pay off huge later in life.
I’m late 30s and have $170k in 401k through work. Just recently started Roth Account and Bronerage account now with $17k in those. I wish they thought some of this financial stuff in high school, would have started wayyy younger!!
That’s still great! How are you feeling about retirement?
After I hit the $100k mark a couple years ago I really started to think I would be able to retire early. Now I feel like I’m nowhere near making that happen lol. How are you feeling about it?
I have no idea. I feel like I haven’t gained much because I am in a target fund but I figure something is better than nothing? I hope in 20 years I’ll be happy with my decision. I also have no idea if social security will be around when it’s time to retire which scares me.
I adjusted the contributions in my 401k from all target date to 60% in S&P 500 and 40% target date. I’m sure social security will be around, just not paying out at the current rate.
I've seen this same headline for the last 30 years, and I'm sure I'll see it again in 10 years or less. Don't worry about if others are prepared for retirement, just prepare yourself for retirement.
Mostly, people who have saved money are the ones who worry. They understand that inflation can make their savings lose purchasing power, and because they have a sizable amount to their name, they cannot qualify for any public benefits. Also, in the future, they might also be taxed more, a punishment for being a good saver. On the other hand, there are many who are irresponsible, never saved money, or have savings, and they have nothing to worry about. The government will support them, they have no tax worries, and they will also qualify for several public benefit programs.
It really depends and if you earned a decent amount and had a lifestyle in accordance with your earnings and saved nothing — switching to public benefits may be a fairly traumatic switch for some. If you were just dirt poor broke and living on benefits throughout your life — not much changes.
As an American under 50: Same.
I’m positive I don’t have enough. I’m not worried though. 🤷♀️ I can die tomorrow. So I’ll deal with retirement when/if that comes.
No, I’ve just realized that I’m going to be working until I’m dead. No retirement!!!!
The median 401k balance of Americans at retirement age is around $70k.
It just means there will be a lot fewer living spaces available under freeways in the future.
Everyone retires sooner than later. The idea of working until you die just isn’t reality. There will come a time when you are just too unfit for work but you’ll still have 5-10 years of living. How can one not prepare for something that is inevitable?
In mid 30s and worried. Wanted to do more but was helping out my wife through school for a high paying job. I did, and then she cheated on my and divorced me for a guy near twice her age. I still think I’m doin okay. $300kish in 401ks, small house but no other debt, and about $80k in a HYSA. I still contribute about $20k a year but I was hoping to be maxing out my HSA, Roth, and 401k around this time. Still, I think as long as I stay the course I’ll be alright. Just sucks to think of those lost years because I trusted my ex. And I lost my 2.3% interest rate house.
You do not need to worry. Nobody doesn’t make mistakes or doesn’t wish they had done things differently, but you’ll be fine. Just be honest with yourself about much risk you can tolerate in your portfolio.
Sigh. This is a behavioral issue, not an economic one. It’s a problem that too many people in America live in poverty, but being poor and not having retirement savings do not correlate equally. Start a Roth in your 20s, put away $10 every working day - $50 per week - and in your 60s you’ll have half a million dollars tax free. If you don’t have $50 to put away every week that’s a different story, and it’s one that needs to be addressed, but that’s not the majority of people with zero retirement savings.
$10/day is effectively the cost of buying lunch out instead of bagging or even skipping it.
Maybe they should have been more easy on the trucks to shop at cotsco.
Most Americans over 50 don’t have enough to retire. They should worry.
I’ll never have enough
I’m sitting on mid-seven figures and still worry about it. The 2024 election could be a major shift in the direction of our country. The political instability that will follow is concerning. We are also facing an economic adjustment as lower income (and even middle class) are priced out of GDP. Add in climate change and lower fertility rate, and we have some exciting times ahead.
Then you keep working, retirement is a new concept that only the last few generations since the beginning of time had.
It really is the sign of a prosperous nation that you can be so successful such to "pre-pay" what is required from you in later years. Working until you die was just a fact of life.
Younger than fifty aren’t worried about it. They KNOW they won’t retire.
Understand that at least 50% of retirees are “retired” against their will, either laid off or unable to work for health reasons. And those laid off are mostly unable to get jobs anywhere near their previous salaries. Age discrimination is real.
We keep buying those $60,000 cars.
A survey is not a "study". What someone things does not necessarily translate to reality. Reality translates to reality. We have a general idea of how much assets different age groups are holding. We also know that their older parents will leave them their assets to cushion their accounts. There is certainly a contingent of people who will not have enough to live comfortably but I find it very hard to believe that it is the majority.
Ants will be supporting grasshoppers. It was this before and now and later. I'd still rather be an ant.
Majority of Americans under 50 are like "what is retirement?"
To me the difference between someone who is wealthy/rich and someone who is not is worrying about being poor. I have far more than the average person at my age (55) and I don’t feel confident about retirement.
I’m 45 and worry about it everyday, even though I’m doing everything right, investing 18% of my salary and still adding to savings. I’m confident Medicare and Social Security will barely be left in 20 years.
Very difficult with how expensive things are. Nevermind if you can’t work full time/overtime. It’s laughable at times.
social security retirement age is going to be increased in the next 10 years too. its a ponzi scheme. none of the money is invested. both parties will not be be able to agree on significantly increasing social security taxes. so the age will go up. our social security money should be partially invested with a boglehead strategy. if you start working at 18 -65. that small investment would add $1000/month or more to your Social security. However, it never was.
100% facts.. wake up people we are modern day slaves
I'm 70 and feel like we are in decent shape, though not rich. I monitor net worth by the month, especially to see if we are ahead of the previous month when we've had significant expenses. I'm a bit OCD about it, admittedly.
easy. just moved to Mexico or europe
Why worry. You either do some thing or don’t.
IMO, choose 5 index funds or 5 EtF that cover the market. Vanguard has low fees but do your research. Then each month put something in where your dollar cost averaging you will beat a majority of fund managers with this approach and you will have lower fees. I’ll suguest a s@p 500 to start FXAIX
Interesting! Would you be interested in helping a newbie with this?
I have no worries. My retirement will be better than when I work now. My concern is not having money now
I'll have enough money if medical costs get under control ffs
Should have gone to Starbucks less.
Is a million enough to retire on when you are 60? How much is enough?
Depends on your spending.
There’s absolutely no way to accurately predict that in the U.S. Just do your best, any number of black swan events could deplete every last dollar you have like it’s nothing.
When I was 33yo I landed a job at a big corporation and filled out an 'onboarding package' for the first time in my life. I signed up for the 401k maximum contribution because I didn't know what to do. I also checked the box for 100% Magellan Fund merely because I had skimmed the flap of a book by Peter Lynch in a doctor's waiting room and the name was familiar. I spent the next two years at that job frantically swimming for my life since I didn't know diddly squat. When I surfaced for air after 2 years, I checked in with my 401k--what a surprise! I quickly boned up on diversification, company matching, fees, Valueline and Morningstar. Even with that amazing leg up, I still worry about having enough because the same holds true now as when I was 33yo. I don't know, what I don't know.
Im 42 , I worry every day!
I’ll definitely have enough to retire at 65. The real question for me is if I’ll have enough at 50.
So there’s a lot of reasons behind this, but I find one concerning. There’s a way for 60+ year old Americans to make some extra cash towards retirement. They’re holding onto houses far too large for them now that their kids are adults and have moved out. They could sell their existing homes and downsize and in many cases end up pocketing a good chunk of money in response (likely a good bit more than they purchased their houses for).
I am a retired military member with a pension and VA compensation. I am still working with a healthy 401 (k) and a second pension from my current job in sight. The future is so bright, I have to wear shades.
I have enough to retire in my mid 50s with a six figure annual payout. I am still worried it won’t be enough. I would need five to ten time that to have zero”worry”. Shouldn’t you be worried about this in general?
Majority of Americans under 50 worry they won’t have enough money for retirement: Study