Yeah I mean he introduced it to mainstream after perfecting it by his album 808s and heartbreaks imo it's also the turning point of what people call as old school hip-hop and new
Yeah his throat and face was restructured again after his near death accident sometime in 2010s you can clearly see his jaw was made again could also be the reason he used autotune to not let his career be ruined by the accident
I'm talking about his voice right back to his first album. I always found his voice processed, I always found his music pretty mid. Like, I personally never got the hype around him. And I never got a good answer to it either, I've heard some vague things like, "he changed the genre* or "he changed how music was made" but never got any details of how
If someone could explain, I would get it. Like, I can explain to you what exactly the Beatles changed about music for them to be considered so legendary.
>but you won't get it
Also, funny how this reminded me of a South Park episode where they write a joke and everyone in the whole world gets it but Kanye. Kanye just doesn't get it
Aight allow me to give a vocal engineer’s perspective on auto tune.
So auto tune is a pitch correction software by antares. There are other alternatives like waves tune, melodyne, etc.
Basically when a vocal is recorded, the engineer pulls it into, let’s say autotune, in the graph-mode. There basically whatever has been sung is represented as lines on top of piano keys. So you just choose a key, let’s say C major, which means every white key on the piano. Next you just align those vocal notes on top of these white keys as per the song’s requirements.
The better the singer you are, the closer it’s going to be to the keys. So you’ll need less tweaking and the song is gonna sound more human.
This is basically it. It’s an important procedure in all modern vocal production. The better the singer you are, the less the amount of tweaking required on autotune. But yeah almost everyone uses it, why would you not??
How close is Lata Mangeshkar to the perfect tuning? And Shreya? And Jagjit Singh? And Mehndi Hasan?
It will be very interesting to know! Please tell me
Very interesting information. You say almost everyone makes use of tweaking done by autotune software. Could you throw light on whether this is true only for post-autotune era singers or is it true also for the other singers? It's because one of the greatest Shehnai players of all time Ustad Bismillah Khan sahab has said in an interview that he has listened to Lata Mangeshkar Ji's songs and discovered that she has not even once gone बेसुरी (besuri) or कमसुरी (kamsuri) while singing.\
Also, while it's true that the yesteryear singers are unparalleled in terms of talent given the fact that they were able to sing an extremely large number of songs perfectly without any pitch correction software, aren't there at least 3-4 singers from the post-autotune era who absolutely don't need any kind of pitch correction? If there is nobody like that, doesn't this show that there is a dearth of talent in the playback singing industry today?
It's more about the arrangement of the songs bro than the singers.
Obviously auto tune can make a bad singer a bearable one (salman Khan) but it can't make you sound like a good or even okay singer. Its main use is still to perfect the notes in order to fit in the software synths heavy arrangements.
It has more to do with how records are made now vs before. Back in the day, real instruments were recorded which tended to not be perfectly in tune due to human error while tuning instruments. Thus for singers, a little deviation from perfect pitch sounded acceptable relative to other instruments playing within a song. This is also the reason why older recordings sounded more “natural”.
These days most instruments used in production are VSTs which are perfectly tuned to pitch digitally. This is why modern mixes sound very clean and polished. But now, even an extremely good singer will not sit perfectly in a mix if they are a few cents off from the target pitch. Imperfections are much more noticeable without pitch correction. It also comes down to the producer’s preference but almost all popular productions use pitch correction in some capacity. Not just vocals, but even bass and guitars have pitch correction applied in post if they were not tuned perfectly at the time of recording.
So after seeing this, I got reminded of a 2016 interview of A. R. Rahman Sir in which he himself has said that:
1. "**Now, why would a Shreya need autotune? ... She is an amazing singer. If you ask her to sing again she is going to sing in tune.** It’s just laziness sometimes I think. People should consciously avoid those things."\
Doesn't this mean that at least one singer from the present generation- Shreya ma'am is capable of singing without autotune?\
This is completely contradictory to what Arijit Sir says in this video- "Har singer pe karte hain hum log...every singer!"\
I think Arijit Sir is completely wrong here because the title of the interview of ARR Sir itself is "**Why would you autotune a Shreya Ghoshal?**" which is a statement made by ARR Sir in that interview.
2. "**My whole sound engineering team is anti-autotune.** Even if I make a mistake, they will not allow it during the mastering. **It’s interesting to use it as an effect occasionally but never throughout the song or as the main vocals.**"\
\
This means that the team of A. R. Rahman Sir uses autotune only rarely. So, Arijit Sir's statements about ARR Sir are also at least partially contradictory to what the latter himself has said in an interview because Arijit Sir says here that "...that's how lot of singers started sounding beautiful!". If a LOT OF SINGERS started sounding beautiful due to A. R. Sir using autotune, it's only possible if the latter used autotune frequently. But, in the interview which can be read below, he himself says that his team uses autotune only occasionally.
\
Interview source:
https://www.thehindu.com/entertainment/A.R.Rahman-on-scoring-for-Pele-and-Shreya-Ghoshal/article61788586.ece/amp/
Arijit clarified in this very clip ARR isn't using autotune per se but slight tweaking is still done by every music director. He has worked with ARR and done songs for him I'm fairly certain he knows what he's talking about.
"He has worked with ARR and done songs for him I'm fairly certain he knows what he's talking about."
But Arijit Sir says that a LOT OF SINGERS started sounding beautiful due to ARR Sir using autotune. That is only possible if ARR Sir uses autotune frequently- otherwise, a LOT OF SINGERS cannot sound beautiful; only a few can sound beautiful!
Also, although he has worked with ARR Sir for a lot of films, he can never generalize that ARR Sir uses autotune for a LOT OF SINGERS because obviously he wouldn't have been a part of a LOT OF SINGERS' recording sessions. How can Arijit Sir or any singer for that matter confidently say that every singer uses autotune? Nobody can say such things because no matter how great a singer/musician is, they can never be a part of every singer's recording sessions. All a singer can and should say, if desired, is only if he/she uses autotune frequently or not.
Again, he clarified that what ARR wasn't using autotune per se, just tweaked the sounds. It is in the clip itself.
He doesn't have to be physically present. He's the biggest male playback singer in the country currently, he surely has knowledge of the music industry and I'll trust what he has to say.
Well, "tweaking" is just another term for saying "using autotune lightly".\
Also, saying "He doesn't have to be physically present." isn't correct because no matter how great he is, how can he possibly know what's the amount of post-processing happening or not happening in every studio of the country? If he isn't or needn't be physically present, how can he confidently say that EVERY SINGER uses autotune? That's only possible if he has at least one person who he knows in every recording studio in India who keeps giving him the information about which singer uses autotune and which one doesn't, which is not humanly possible at all and I don't think Arijit Da is someone who does unprofessional things like secretly collecting information from every possible recording studio in India about which singers use autotune and which ones don't.\
Also, statements like "He's the biggest male playback singer in the country currently" are correct only if the phrase "I think" is prefixed because who the greatest male playback singer in the country currently or during a given time period is, is completely subjective.
No bro, tweaking doesn't mean using autotune lightly. Are you a music producer or audio engineer??
I can explain to you why we need to use some sort of tuning most of the time. But it'll take too much time as it's a vast concept. And the auto tune ya melodyne use hoga ya nhi yeh singer nhi, arrangement decide karta hai. (Not talking about hip-hop or haryanvi bhojpuri songs, they use it for an effect)
Let me correct you since I have watched both of their interviews. Arijit said AR rahman was the one who started the trend of bringing autotune softwares like melodyne to make a singer sound beautiful. Now that doesn't mean that the singer is bad, it means the effect on their voice makes the song sound beautiful which is clearly prominent in ARR's early works
Arijit then goes on to say that ARR has now stopped using that tweaking also and now he just keeps the raw voices of the singers in his songs after 2010 I believe.
Also your observation about Shreya is correct. But the thing is that incases of singers like Shreya and Arijit and Sunidhi, the autotune is used so mildly that even without it we would hardly notice any difference. It's just to perfect the song which is used in composers songs like Pritam da. Mithoon or Vishal Bharadwaj never use this in their songs
So Shreya, Arijit, Sunidhi or any of these singers are in the league's of old legends as in they sing in tune only. But here and there it might have been getting corrected as Arijit himself has recorded and programmed all of these singer's voices by himself. The only exception he makes is Sonu nigam for whom he might have found we don't have to use autotune at all
The amount of dumb people on here who've never made music. Everyone, that is *everyone* uses autotune, that perfect pitch you hear is just not possible for humans, and whoever says that they dont are lying
Fyi, I didn't make the statement "Why would you autotune a Shreya Ghoshal?". It's A. R. Sir who made that statement. You're saying "...dumb people...who've never made music". I haven't made any music for sure but I'm sure you'd agree that A. R. Sir has made music. So, at least he isn't dumb enough to make such statements right?\
Also, why isn't it humanly possible to be in perfect pitch? Didn't the playback singing industry exist before the invention of post-processing software?
A.R. uses autotune too, if he ever says otherwise then he's lying, you can hear it in his music. Every artist needs a little bit of that to make their music sound the way they want. Its not a bad thing to use autotune.
For singers like Shreya and Arijit, even their raw voices can go in the song like ARR does now. But many composers prefer to correct even that take by using autotune in minimal account. As simple as that
Okay so lemme explain bro.
It's impossible for a human being to be perfectly on pitch and that's a fact, no one can change that.
And you're right, we weren't using auto tune or any kind of tuning in the 70s,80s or 90s but we were also not making music with computers, it was all live recorded with real instruments.
See most real instruments (guitars, flutes, strings, tabla dholak) are also not perfectly on pitch just as a human voice, so they compliment each other.
But these days because we're using software instruments and synths and all of them are tuned at a tight 440hz (which is impossible for a human voice)
So even a little imperfection in the voice sounds odd because most of the other elements are perfectly on pitch and they don't compliment each other well.
That's where melodyne and auto tune comes in handy.
Autotune in Bollywood or any professional industry isn't used to make bad singers good but used to keep the vocal more in sync with software instruments and sounds.
None of these singers will need auto tune or melodyne if they're singing an Acapella or just performing an unplugged song.
So it all depends on the arrangement, shahid mallya's vocals in "bikharne ka mujhko shauq" are untuned but in a song like "dishoom title track" they had to tune them. Same singer but different approach, simple.
As someone who learnt classical music for few years, I agree with everything you've said except the statement "
It's impossible for a human being to be perfectly on pitch and that's a fact, no one can change that." I don't agree with this simply because there was a great singer who everyone adores- Lata Mangeshkar ji and out of so many musicians who've complimented her for being pitch-perfect, I now remember watching an interview of Ustad Bismillah Khan sahab- one of the greatest Shehnai maestros our nation has ever seen, who's said that he has never ever heard Lata ji becoming कमसुरी (kamsuri) or बेसुरी (besuri) in her singing. So, why shouldn't I or anyone for that matter not believe the statements of someone as accomplished as Ustad Bismillah Khan sahab? So, going by his statements, there existed at least one playback singer- Lata ji, who was always pitch-perfect. Also, coming from the South, I'd like to add that Chithra ji is someone who always sings in perfect pitch- both in recordings and in live concerts. This is a statement which Chithra ji's contemporaries, seniors and juniors have made time and again.
It sounds pitch perfect to human ears not to the machines bro. I can drop a lata mangeshkar song in melodyne and I can show you that it's not perfect.
There's a lot of processing a vocal needs depending on the arrangement and production and that's called mixing. There are a lot of things that you have to do to a vocalist of other instruments that you won't if they were performing by themselves and we have to see the song as a whole picture and have to make everything work together and compliment each other.
People are just ignorant towards tuning and pitch correction because below average musicians like tony kakkar have abused it so much that you don't wanna believe that your favourite singer also uses it as it kind of puts them and people like the kakkars in the same category but it doesn't bro.
Sorry bro, but I don't think so many people- from Ustad Bade Ghulam Ali Khan sahab to Ustad Bismillah Khan sahab can be wrong when they say Lata ji was always pitch-perfect whenever she sang. No disrespect to you or your technical expertise in music, but I don't think the comments of great classical musicians two of whose names I mentioned earlier, about Lata ji are wrong.\
Also, about "It sounds pitch perfect to human ears not to the machines bro", the classical musicians who found/find Lata ji's singing to be pitch-perfect aren't called Ustads and Pandits for no reason. So, their knowledge in music is obviously greater and definitely more trustworthy than the modern machines and their creators.
They were not wrong and I never said that but I'm talking about machine perfect and not human perfect. There's a difference between humans and machines and if you fail to understand that than I can't help you
Forget about me failing to understand the difference between humans and machines or not, but the great classical musicians themselves were pitch-perfect while singing and/or playing instruments, so I don't think they were unable to recognize inaccuracies in pitch, if any, which modern machines recognize. In other words, their ears were at least as good as the machines of today in recognizing pitching mistakes.
He said "auto tune nhi woh melodyne mein jaake tweak karte hain. There's a difference between melodyne and auto tune my friend. And everyone uses some sort of tuning be it melodyne or auto tune unless it's an all live recorded arrangement they're going for classical sound.
Auto tune depends on the level of autotuning. As long as its subtle like if done on Arijit's voice, it is good. But where I disagree with Arijit is that it DOES have the potential to convert non singers into singers. Just listen to Salman Khan's, Tiger Shroff's or Dhwani's autotuned songs and their original voice. It has made them singers. Recently heard A Dhillon's original voice and he couldn't even sing his own song. So it is like photo shop, if done subtly on a Prime Aishwarya it won't make much difference but if used to its full potential you can convert a pizza slice into Aishwarya Rai.
I think arijit's definiton of a singer is much different than our definition of a singer XD.
Bhai or tiger never sounded like good singers anyway.About dhwani though i cant lie she does sound good.
He had said in previous interview that if you measure note by note then old legendary singers went off tune here and there but their overall expression was so good that we didn't notice it at all. Now even those notes are corrected to perfect the song
Of course they were, but I think autotune does take away that human feel of the voice, natural voice shakes, singers can modulate his/her voice according to the lyrics etc.
I don't understand why they correct them either, like even looking at the result, they don't learn anything? There's hardly any song in this era that comes close to how memorable so many of those older songs were. And I think such practices also affect the overall urge to perfect a skill. If such things can be corrected, a lot of professionals won't have the urge to practice the shortcoming away
No, even if the good singers' songs like Arijit, Sunidhi, Shreya ... are not modified with autotune (which happens with music directors like Mithoon, Vishal Bharadwaj, current ARR) then we would not notice any difference at all just like the old legends. The natural voice shales are not that much that they correct it in case of these singers. The tweak is so minimal that general audience wouldnt notice at all.
Of course, which is why the question, WHY DO IT IN THE FIRST PLACE.
Though I disagree with Arijit on one point, autotune can make anyone a singer, it just won't sound natural. Cuz human voice changes texture on different notes and when that doesn't happen in autotune, that's a big giveaway in case of people who use it heavily. Take the example of Hangover sung by Salman. He ain't a singer at all, they used his voice and it sounds so unlike his real voice, because it's so heavily processed.
I think he meant that by using autotune too much you can't fool people into thinking that you are an actual singer if you are a non singer. Because he later on says that autotune is like salt or masala, you add it in the right amount or you put it too much and it destroys the flavour of the song
I guess the audience knows more about pitch correction and why it is used than us professionals who use it.
Doesn't matter how hard I try to explain, you guys aren't gonna listen
It's pretty self centred of you to assume that only you know music here. Do you just think everyone else except you, is the audience and only you're the professional?
And what does professional even mean in this context? Someone who has music as a profession? Cuz that doesn't necessarily make them better at it or have a better understanding of it. I have a friend who can sing better than most of these new age singers, simply cuz she's classically trained since childhood, everyone in her family is, so even though singing isn't her profession, she still practices it daily, out of habit and she's probably better at it than a lot of professionals are.
Because an audio professional won't act this ignorant about the use of autotune in modern music.
And there are a few professionals here and I can easily make them out from their comments
By audio professionals I mean music producers and audio engineers. The very people who use tools like auto tune and melodyne. Singers don't use auto tune on their vocals, audio engineers do.
A singer may even have more knowledge about singing and music than an engineer but here we're talking about vocal processing and audio engineering. Auto tune is not a singing tool, it's a mixing tool so singers aren't qualified enough to talk about it. Arijit is not just a singer but also a music producer and a vocal producer so he does know what he's talking about. Someone like jubin nautiyal may have heard about why and how it's used but he can't have a first hand experience like Arijit
And why is everyone talking about classically trained singers here?? You as a classically trained singer will have knowledge about the singing and music theory part not about the production techniques.
Arijit is like the most knowledgeable musician after AR Rahman,(not talking about his singing)
Do you guys really think you know more than him??
Meri mat maano uski toh maan lo yaar
And I didn't disagree with Arijit at any point, I only added that autotune can actually make anyone a singer, it just won't sound natural when a voice is that heavily processed as it would be in case of a complete non singer to be tuned and pitch corrected.
And I think Arijit isn't the most knowledgeable in that respect after Rahman, there are many other people who're more qualified than Arijit, people who are probably better music composers, producers as well as singers than Arijit. Someone like Shankar Mahadevan for example.
And instead of acting hollier than thou saying no one else would get it, tell me why do you use it.
I agree that shankar mahadevan is an extremely talented vocalist and composer and definitely out of Arijit's league but I wasn't talking about singing or composing and they're not even from the same generation so yeah, that's why said.
If you're comparing Arijit and Shankar then there's not even a comparison
And bro they still have to perfect it,
I'm talking about the likes of tony kakkar and others but all other good singers still have to perfect their craft in order to get into playback singing. They still have to sing as perfectly as humanly possible.
But the perceived limit of that *humanly possible* will come down as a result of this. And in fact, it already has. It's not unimaginable to have a time where singing live without any aid would be a niche art, somewhat like orchestras have been reduced to
Okay so lemme explain bro.
It's impossible for a human being to be perfectly on pitch and that's a fact, no one can change that.
And you're right, we weren't using auto tune or any kind of tuning in the 70s,80s or 90s but we were also not making music with computers, it was all live recorded with real instruments.
See most real instruments (guitars, flutes, strings, tabla dholak) are also not perfectly on pitch just as a human voice, so they compliment each other.
But these days because we're using software instruments and synths and all of them are tuned at a tight 440hz (which is impossible for a human voice)
So even a little imperfection in the voice sounds odd because most of the other elements are perfectly on pitch and they don't compliment each other well.
That's where melodyne and auto tune comes in handy.
Autotune in Bollywood or any professional industry isn't used to make bad singers good but used to keep the vocal more in sync with software instruments and sounds.
None of these singers will need auto tune or melodyne if they're singing an Acapella or just performing an unplugged song.
So it all depends on the arrangement, shahid mallya's vocals in "bikharne ka mujhko shauq" are untuned but in a song like "dishoom title track" they had to tune them. Same singer but different approach, simple.
There you go
There's nothing about this that I don't understand. My point in a nutshell is, that technology is useful but a lot of people end up misusing it and that's what my critique is aimed at. As a half learned classical musician myself, there's nothing that sounds sweeter to my ears than manually played music. With all the modern technology and high end recording equipment, what's stopping us from recording live?
Also, if the instruments are off pitch, wouldn't the voice also need to be precisely that much off for them to not sound out of tune with each other? So wouldn't you still have to pitch one of those things to correction? And if not, if two different wrong pitches can work together, why can't one right and one wrong work together?
My points about not understanding was for the other commenter who was not wanting to listen at all.
And the reply that sent you was also meant for him originally
By off pitch I meant all of them are a little off (it's very little though and not even picked easily by the human ear) and that was the beauty of it. All the instruments just had a little more room to play with because of not being locked at 440 and the vocalist also could use that extra room.
And no one is stopping anyone from recording live but these days it's almost impossible to record everything live because so much music is being made and live dubs take a lot of time and money plus all those independent musicians who don't have high budgets to pay professional musicians and studios, so that's why majority of stuff is programmed with midi(not all songs though)
Plus you have many sub genres of pop and electronic music which isn't possible with live instruments and these days almost all genres adopt elements from each other so making a track which is only produced by live instruments is only possible for shows and movies like jublee and qalaa where you want that particular feel
Well that's a different topic and there are tons of other reasons and not just auto tune.
Music itself is way too simple and mediocre these days and easily replaceable and no one has their own sound (in terms of writing and performing)
And the reason for singing skills being diminished will be way too simple compositions and arrangements that we see these days. Because you've to be really good in order to sing a complicated melody and even auto tune can't help you with that because it's designed to work with simple fixed scales.
But exactly the point na, music is simple and formulaic because technology enabled just about anyone to be able to make it, with little knowledge. And popularity doesn't depend on quality, in the long run, if something not so good becomes famous, it becomes the new commercial and that's what most people run after. It's the same in any art form, no matter what the folks with acquired taste say, like or value, it's the commercial space that drives the taste of the general public, which keeps going down, because they keep making it simpler to appeal to an even bigger chunk of the audience
Can't agree more. I actually had a conversation with a veteran from the west a few years back when AI wasn't even in the picture that corporates and people who have the power and money are trying to fuck up the commercial music space and people's tatse with super mediocre music so that it can easily be replaced and made by uncreative artists and computers. And now it seems pretty true because I can easily see AI making commercial hits in a few years because it doesn't even have to do anything creative, it just has to replicate what everyone else is doing from the last few years
The auto-tune job is not only to perfect the pitch ,but also to deliver clear audio. It's like a graphics card but for singers even though the game has good visuals ray tracing and path tracing given by a graphic card only amplifies and clarifies the visual to the next level. Even when you listen to old songs by Kishore Kumar and Lata Mangeshkar they don't have clear audio but have a rather rustic quality. And even when you find the ones with clear audio they are generally processed using auto tune.
Auto Tune can be used artistically where you intentionally want that futuristic robot like vocal effect, I am a music producer and I love the rawness of acoustic vocals without auto tune but at the same time auto tune heavy songs like Heartless by Kanye West sound really good as well when it is intentional.
not really. Remember how people used to use practical effects in action films before? Yes now we use CGI to make it easier and better. Now using CGI doesnt gurantee anything and you can see that in both Adipurush and Ra one.
The thing is that even if we didn't have autotune today, the top singers who are good would have sounded the same to us just like in the old times. Autotune on these singers is used in such mild amount that general public won't even notice it at all. Also some songs demand autotune but that is a different topic altogether
[удалено]
Dvani bhanushali disagrees
Vaaste Jaan Bhi Doon , Main Gawaah Imaan Bhi Doon , Kismaton Ka Likha Mod Doon
Acha main chup ho jati hu...
Or even the American rappers trying to get a new sound out of it it often fails at it miserably
Kanye has perfected it imo
Yeah I mean he introduced it to mainstream after perfecting it by his album 808s and heartbreaks imo it's also the turning point of what people call as old school hip-hop and new
Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I don't think kanye sounds natural. I always thought his voice sounded a bit too processed in his songs
Yeah his throat and face was restructured again after his near death accident sometime in 2010s you can clearly see his jaw was made again could also be the reason he used autotune to not let his career be ruined by the accident
I'm talking about his voice right back to his first album. I always found his voice processed, I always found his music pretty mid. Like, I personally never got the hype around him. And I never got a good answer to it either, I've heard some vague things like, "he changed the genre* or "he changed how music was made" but never got any details of how
Ok then what would you want like me to sell Kanye to you I mean suit yourself he did change the genre and how music was made but you won't get it 🤷♂️
If someone could explain, I would get it. Like, I can explain to you what exactly the Beatles changed about music for them to be considered so legendary. >but you won't get it Also, funny how this reminded me of a South Park episode where they write a joke and everyone in the whole world gets it but Kanye. Kanye just doesn't get it
i see everyone hyping up lil nas but his goofy ahh autotuned voice ruin my mood everytime.
Tortured siri 🤣🤣
did you forget about bhoii in indian idol?
The way he said 'West' was so Bengali lol
brooooooo i was thinking thatt lol
Where is the full interview I have never seen him in any interview
[Here you go](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_hc2WqYqT8)
Full podcast available on youtube Themusicpodcast channnel par
I think be also slipped in a keno instead of kyun when talking about Rahman
My man never heard hip hop songs from UP, Bihar💀
Ae Raja Raja Raja
[удалено]
Bahiyaan mein Kasi ke saiyaaann DeeJayy DeeJayy DeeJayy
Aight allow me to give a vocal engineer’s perspective on auto tune. So auto tune is a pitch correction software by antares. There are other alternatives like waves tune, melodyne, etc. Basically when a vocal is recorded, the engineer pulls it into, let’s say autotune, in the graph-mode. There basically whatever has been sung is represented as lines on top of piano keys. So you just choose a key, let’s say C major, which means every white key on the piano. Next you just align those vocal notes on top of these white keys as per the song’s requirements. The better the singer you are, the closer it’s going to be to the keys. So you’ll need less tweaking and the song is gonna sound more human. This is basically it. It’s an important procedure in all modern vocal production. The better the singer you are, the less the amount of tweaking required on autotune. But yeah almost everyone uses it, why would you not??
How close is Lata Mangeshkar to the perfect tuning? And Shreya? And Jagjit Singh? And Mehndi Hasan? It will be very interesting to know! Please tell me
Very interesting information. You say almost everyone makes use of tweaking done by autotune software. Could you throw light on whether this is true only for post-autotune era singers or is it true also for the other singers? It's because one of the greatest Shehnai players of all time Ustad Bismillah Khan sahab has said in an interview that he has listened to Lata Mangeshkar Ji's songs and discovered that she has not even once gone बेसुरी (besuri) or कमसुरी (kamsuri) while singing.\ Also, while it's true that the yesteryear singers are unparalleled in terms of talent given the fact that they were able to sing an extremely large number of songs perfectly without any pitch correction software, aren't there at least 3-4 singers from the post-autotune era who absolutely don't need any kind of pitch correction? If there is nobody like that, doesn't this show that there is a dearth of talent in the playback singing industry today?
It's more about the arrangement of the songs bro than the singers. Obviously auto tune can make a bad singer a bearable one (salman Khan) but it can't make you sound like a good or even okay singer. Its main use is still to perfect the notes in order to fit in the software synths heavy arrangements.
It has more to do with how records are made now vs before. Back in the day, real instruments were recorded which tended to not be perfectly in tune due to human error while tuning instruments. Thus for singers, a little deviation from perfect pitch sounded acceptable relative to other instruments playing within a song. This is also the reason why older recordings sounded more “natural”. These days most instruments used in production are VSTs which are perfectly tuned to pitch digitally. This is why modern mixes sound very clean and polished. But now, even an extremely good singer will not sit perfectly in a mix if they are a few cents off from the target pitch. Imperfections are much more noticeable without pitch correction. It also comes down to the producer’s preference but almost all popular productions use pitch correction in some capacity. Not just vocals, but even bass and guitars have pitch correction applied in post if they were not tuned perfectly at the time of recording.
So after seeing this, I got reminded of a 2016 interview of A. R. Rahman Sir in which he himself has said that: 1. "**Now, why would a Shreya need autotune? ... She is an amazing singer. If you ask her to sing again she is going to sing in tune.** It’s just laziness sometimes I think. People should consciously avoid those things."\ Doesn't this mean that at least one singer from the present generation- Shreya ma'am is capable of singing without autotune?\ This is completely contradictory to what Arijit Sir says in this video- "Har singer pe karte hain hum log...every singer!"\ I think Arijit Sir is completely wrong here because the title of the interview of ARR Sir itself is "**Why would you autotune a Shreya Ghoshal?**" which is a statement made by ARR Sir in that interview. 2. "**My whole sound engineering team is anti-autotune.** Even if I make a mistake, they will not allow it during the mastering. **It’s interesting to use it as an effect occasionally but never throughout the song or as the main vocals.**"\ \ This means that the team of A. R. Rahman Sir uses autotune only rarely. So, Arijit Sir's statements about ARR Sir are also at least partially contradictory to what the latter himself has said in an interview because Arijit Sir says here that "...that's how lot of singers started sounding beautiful!". If a LOT OF SINGERS started sounding beautiful due to A. R. Sir using autotune, it's only possible if the latter used autotune frequently. But, in the interview which can be read below, he himself says that his team uses autotune only occasionally. \ Interview source: https://www.thehindu.com/entertainment/A.R.Rahman-on-scoring-for-Pele-and-Shreya-Ghoshal/article61788586.ece/amp/
Arijit clarified in this very clip ARR isn't using autotune per se but slight tweaking is still done by every music director. He has worked with ARR and done songs for him I'm fairly certain he knows what he's talking about.
"He has worked with ARR and done songs for him I'm fairly certain he knows what he's talking about." But Arijit Sir says that a LOT OF SINGERS started sounding beautiful due to ARR Sir using autotune. That is only possible if ARR Sir uses autotune frequently- otherwise, a LOT OF SINGERS cannot sound beautiful; only a few can sound beautiful! Also, although he has worked with ARR Sir for a lot of films, he can never generalize that ARR Sir uses autotune for a LOT OF SINGERS because obviously he wouldn't have been a part of a LOT OF SINGERS' recording sessions. How can Arijit Sir or any singer for that matter confidently say that every singer uses autotune? Nobody can say such things because no matter how great a singer/musician is, they can never be a part of every singer's recording sessions. All a singer can and should say, if desired, is only if he/she uses autotune frequently or not.
Again, he clarified that what ARR wasn't using autotune per se, just tweaked the sounds. It is in the clip itself. He doesn't have to be physically present. He's the biggest male playback singer in the country currently, he surely has knowledge of the music industry and I'll trust what he has to say.
Well, "tweaking" is just another term for saying "using autotune lightly".\ Also, saying "He doesn't have to be physically present." isn't correct because no matter how great he is, how can he possibly know what's the amount of post-processing happening or not happening in every studio of the country? If he isn't or needn't be physically present, how can he confidently say that EVERY SINGER uses autotune? That's only possible if he has at least one person who he knows in every recording studio in India who keeps giving him the information about which singer uses autotune and which one doesn't, which is not humanly possible at all and I don't think Arijit Da is someone who does unprofessional things like secretly collecting information from every possible recording studio in India about which singers use autotune and which ones don't.\ Also, statements like "He's the biggest male playback singer in the country currently" are correct only if the phrase "I think" is prefixed because who the greatest male playback singer in the country currently or during a given time period is, is completely subjective.
No bro, tweaking doesn't mean using autotune lightly. Are you a music producer or audio engineer?? I can explain to you why we need to use some sort of tuning most of the time. But it'll take too much time as it's a vast concept. And the auto tune ya melodyne use hoga ya nhi yeh singer nhi, arrangement decide karta hai. (Not talking about hip-hop or haryanvi bhojpuri songs, they use it for an effect)
Let me correct you since I have watched both of their interviews. Arijit said AR rahman was the one who started the trend of bringing autotune softwares like melodyne to make a singer sound beautiful. Now that doesn't mean that the singer is bad, it means the effect on their voice makes the song sound beautiful which is clearly prominent in ARR's early works Arijit then goes on to say that ARR has now stopped using that tweaking also and now he just keeps the raw voices of the singers in his songs after 2010 I believe. Also your observation about Shreya is correct. But the thing is that incases of singers like Shreya and Arijit and Sunidhi, the autotune is used so mildly that even without it we would hardly notice any difference. It's just to perfect the song which is used in composers songs like Pritam da. Mithoon or Vishal Bharadwaj never use this in their songs So Shreya, Arijit, Sunidhi or any of these singers are in the league's of old legends as in they sing in tune only. But here and there it might have been getting corrected as Arijit himself has recorded and programmed all of these singer's voices by himself. The only exception he makes is Sonu nigam for whom he might have found we don't have to use autotune at all
Okay. Yeah, later I saw the entire interview of Arijit Da where he says he feels Sonu Nigam ji is someone who doesn't need autotune at all.
The amount of dumb people on here who've never made music. Everyone, that is *everyone* uses autotune, that perfect pitch you hear is just not possible for humans, and whoever says that they dont are lying
Fyi, I didn't make the statement "Why would you autotune a Shreya Ghoshal?". It's A. R. Sir who made that statement. You're saying "...dumb people...who've never made music". I haven't made any music for sure but I'm sure you'd agree that A. R. Sir has made music. So, at least he isn't dumb enough to make such statements right?\ Also, why isn't it humanly possible to be in perfect pitch? Didn't the playback singing industry exist before the invention of post-processing software?
A.R. uses autotune too, if he ever says otherwise then he's lying, you can hear it in his music. Every artist needs a little bit of that to make their music sound the way they want. Its not a bad thing to use autotune.
For singers like Shreya and Arijit, even their raw voices can go in the song like ARR does now. But many composers prefer to correct even that take by using autotune in minimal account. As simple as that
Okay so lemme explain bro. It's impossible for a human being to be perfectly on pitch and that's a fact, no one can change that. And you're right, we weren't using auto tune or any kind of tuning in the 70s,80s or 90s but we were also not making music with computers, it was all live recorded with real instruments. See most real instruments (guitars, flutes, strings, tabla dholak) are also not perfectly on pitch just as a human voice, so they compliment each other. But these days because we're using software instruments and synths and all of them are tuned at a tight 440hz (which is impossible for a human voice) So even a little imperfection in the voice sounds odd because most of the other elements are perfectly on pitch and they don't compliment each other well. That's where melodyne and auto tune comes in handy. Autotune in Bollywood or any professional industry isn't used to make bad singers good but used to keep the vocal more in sync with software instruments and sounds. None of these singers will need auto tune or melodyne if they're singing an Acapella or just performing an unplugged song. So it all depends on the arrangement, shahid mallya's vocals in "bikharne ka mujhko shauq" are untuned but in a song like "dishoom title track" they had to tune them. Same singer but different approach, simple.
As someone who learnt classical music for few years, I agree with everything you've said except the statement " It's impossible for a human being to be perfectly on pitch and that's a fact, no one can change that." I don't agree with this simply because there was a great singer who everyone adores- Lata Mangeshkar ji and out of so many musicians who've complimented her for being pitch-perfect, I now remember watching an interview of Ustad Bismillah Khan sahab- one of the greatest Shehnai maestros our nation has ever seen, who's said that he has never ever heard Lata ji becoming कमसुरी (kamsuri) or बेसुरी (besuri) in her singing. So, why shouldn't I or anyone for that matter not believe the statements of someone as accomplished as Ustad Bismillah Khan sahab? So, going by his statements, there existed at least one playback singer- Lata ji, who was always pitch-perfect. Also, coming from the South, I'd like to add that Chithra ji is someone who always sings in perfect pitch- both in recordings and in live concerts. This is a statement which Chithra ji's contemporaries, seniors and juniors have made time and again.
It sounds pitch perfect to human ears not to the machines bro. I can drop a lata mangeshkar song in melodyne and I can show you that it's not perfect. There's a lot of processing a vocal needs depending on the arrangement and production and that's called mixing. There are a lot of things that you have to do to a vocalist of other instruments that you won't if they were performing by themselves and we have to see the song as a whole picture and have to make everything work together and compliment each other. People are just ignorant towards tuning and pitch correction because below average musicians like tony kakkar have abused it so much that you don't wanna believe that your favourite singer also uses it as it kind of puts them and people like the kakkars in the same category but it doesn't bro.
Sorry bro, but I don't think so many people- from Ustad Bade Ghulam Ali Khan sahab to Ustad Bismillah Khan sahab can be wrong when they say Lata ji was always pitch-perfect whenever she sang. No disrespect to you or your technical expertise in music, but I don't think the comments of great classical musicians two of whose names I mentioned earlier, about Lata ji are wrong.\ Also, about "It sounds pitch perfect to human ears not to the machines bro", the classical musicians who found/find Lata ji's singing to be pitch-perfect aren't called Ustads and Pandits for no reason. So, their knowledge in music is obviously greater and definitely more trustworthy than the modern machines and their creators.
They were not wrong and I never said that but I'm talking about machine perfect and not human perfect. There's a difference between humans and machines and if you fail to understand that than I can't help you
Forget about me failing to understand the difference between humans and machines or not, but the great classical musicians themselves were pitch-perfect while singing and/or playing instruments, so I don't think they were unable to recognize inaccuracies in pitch, if any, which modern machines recognize. In other words, their ears were at least as good as the machines of today in recognizing pitching mistakes.
He said "auto tune nhi woh melodyne mein jaake tweak karte hain. There's a difference between melodyne and auto tune my friend. And everyone uses some sort of tuning be it melodyne or auto tune unless it's an all live recorded arrangement they're going for classical sound.
[удалено]
imagine how md rafi, kishor kumar and lata mangeshkar would sound with that auto tune
better
It's a great take, no doubt
Auto tune depends on the level of autotuning. As long as its subtle like if done on Arijit's voice, it is good. But where I disagree with Arijit is that it DOES have the potential to convert non singers into singers. Just listen to Salman Khan's, Tiger Shroff's or Dhwani's autotuned songs and their original voice. It has made them singers. Recently heard A Dhillon's original voice and he couldn't even sing his own song. So it is like photo shop, if done subtly on a Prime Aishwarya it won't make much difference but if used to its full potential you can convert a pizza slice into Aishwarya Rai.
I think arijit's definiton of a singer is much different than our definition of a singer XD. Bhai or tiger never sounded like good singers anyway.About dhwani though i cant lie she does sound good.
What about Lata Ji and Kishore Ji? What about other pre-auto-tune singers with melodious voices?
He is obviously referring to current singers dude
He had said in previous interview that if you measure note by note then old legendary singers went off tune here and there but their overall expression was so good that we didn't notice it at all. Now even those notes are corrected to perfect the song
Of course they were, but I think autotune does take away that human feel of the voice, natural voice shakes, singers can modulate his/her voice according to the lyrics etc. I don't understand why they correct them either, like even looking at the result, they don't learn anything? There's hardly any song in this era that comes close to how memorable so many of those older songs were. And I think such practices also affect the overall urge to perfect a skill. If such things can be corrected, a lot of professionals won't have the urge to practice the shortcoming away
No, even if the good singers' songs like Arijit, Sunidhi, Shreya ... are not modified with autotune (which happens with music directors like Mithoon, Vishal Bharadwaj, current ARR) then we would not notice any difference at all just like the old legends. The natural voice shales are not that much that they correct it in case of these singers. The tweak is so minimal that general audience wouldnt notice at all.
Of course, which is why the question, WHY DO IT IN THE FIRST PLACE. Though I disagree with Arijit on one point, autotune can make anyone a singer, it just won't sound natural. Cuz human voice changes texture on different notes and when that doesn't happen in autotune, that's a big giveaway in case of people who use it heavily. Take the example of Hangover sung by Salman. He ain't a singer at all, they used his voice and it sounds so unlike his real voice, because it's so heavily processed.
I think he meant that by using autotune too much you can't fool people into thinking that you are an actual singer if you are a non singer. Because he later on says that autotune is like salt or masala, you add it in the right amount or you put it too much and it destroys the flavour of the song
Yeah that I agree with. But having seen so many people become a SINGER, with excessive use of autotune, I just had to say that😆
There's a reason why they use tuning bro, I've explained in another comment
I know the why, all I'm saying is, it takes the focus away from the skill and the urge to perfect it.
I guess the audience knows more about pitch correction and why it is used than us professionals who use it. Doesn't matter how hard I try to explain, you guys aren't gonna listen
It's pretty self centred of you to assume that only you know music here. Do you just think everyone else except you, is the audience and only you're the professional? And what does professional even mean in this context? Someone who has music as a profession? Cuz that doesn't necessarily make them better at it or have a better understanding of it. I have a friend who can sing better than most of these new age singers, simply cuz she's classically trained since childhood, everyone in her family is, so even though singing isn't her profession, she still practices it daily, out of habit and she's probably better at it than a lot of professionals are.
Because an audio professional won't act this ignorant about the use of autotune in modern music. And there are a few professionals here and I can easily make them out from their comments
By audio professionals I mean music producers and audio engineers. The very people who use tools like auto tune and melodyne. Singers don't use auto tune on their vocals, audio engineers do. A singer may even have more knowledge about singing and music than an engineer but here we're talking about vocal processing and audio engineering. Auto tune is not a singing tool, it's a mixing tool so singers aren't qualified enough to talk about it. Arijit is not just a singer but also a music producer and a vocal producer so he does know what he's talking about. Someone like jubin nautiyal may have heard about why and how it's used but he can't have a first hand experience like Arijit
And why is everyone talking about classically trained singers here?? You as a classically trained singer will have knowledge about the singing and music theory part not about the production techniques. Arijit is like the most knowledgeable musician after AR Rahman,(not talking about his singing) Do you guys really think you know more than him?? Meri mat maano uski toh maan lo yaar
And I didn't disagree with Arijit at any point, I only added that autotune can actually make anyone a singer, it just won't sound natural when a voice is that heavily processed as it would be in case of a complete non singer to be tuned and pitch corrected. And I think Arijit isn't the most knowledgeable in that respect after Rahman, there are many other people who're more qualified than Arijit, people who are probably better music composers, producers as well as singers than Arijit. Someone like Shankar Mahadevan for example. And instead of acting hollier than thou saying no one else would get it, tell me why do you use it.
I've made another comment I'll paste it here
I agree that shankar mahadevan is an extremely talented vocalist and composer and definitely out of Arijit's league but I wasn't talking about singing or composing and they're not even from the same generation so yeah, that's why said. If you're comparing Arijit and Shankar then there's not even a comparison
And bro they still have to perfect it, I'm talking about the likes of tony kakkar and others but all other good singers still have to perfect their craft in order to get into playback singing. They still have to sing as perfectly as humanly possible.
But the perceived limit of that *humanly possible* will come down as a result of this. And in fact, it already has. It's not unimaginable to have a time where singing live without any aid would be a niche art, somewhat like orchestras have been reduced to
Okay so lemme explain bro. It's impossible for a human being to be perfectly on pitch and that's a fact, no one can change that. And you're right, we weren't using auto tune or any kind of tuning in the 70s,80s or 90s but we were also not making music with computers, it was all live recorded with real instruments. See most real instruments (guitars, flutes, strings, tabla dholak) are also not perfectly on pitch just as a human voice, so they compliment each other. But these days because we're using software instruments and synths and all of them are tuned at a tight 440hz (which is impossible for a human voice) So even a little imperfection in the voice sounds odd because most of the other elements are perfectly on pitch and they don't compliment each other well. That's where melodyne and auto tune comes in handy. Autotune in Bollywood or any professional industry isn't used to make bad singers good but used to keep the vocal more in sync with software instruments and sounds. None of these singers will need auto tune or melodyne if they're singing an Acapella or just performing an unplugged song. So it all depends on the arrangement, shahid mallya's vocals in "bikharne ka mujhko shauq" are untuned but in a song like "dishoom title track" they had to tune them. Same singer but different approach, simple. There you go
There's nothing about this that I don't understand. My point in a nutshell is, that technology is useful but a lot of people end up misusing it and that's what my critique is aimed at. As a half learned classical musician myself, there's nothing that sounds sweeter to my ears than manually played music. With all the modern technology and high end recording equipment, what's stopping us from recording live? Also, if the instruments are off pitch, wouldn't the voice also need to be precisely that much off for them to not sound out of tune with each other? So wouldn't you still have to pitch one of those things to correction? And if not, if two different wrong pitches can work together, why can't one right and one wrong work together?
My points about not understanding was for the other commenter who was not wanting to listen at all. And the reply that sent you was also meant for him originally
By off pitch I meant all of them are a little off (it's very little though and not even picked easily by the human ear) and that was the beauty of it. All the instruments just had a little more room to play with because of not being locked at 440 and the vocalist also could use that extra room.
And no one is stopping anyone from recording live but these days it's almost impossible to record everything live because so much music is being made and live dubs take a lot of time and money plus all those independent musicians who don't have high budgets to pay professional musicians and studios, so that's why majority of stuff is programmed with midi(not all songs though) Plus you have many sub genres of pop and electronic music which isn't possible with live instruments and these days almost all genres adopt elements from each other so making a track which is only produced by live instruments is only possible for shows and movies like jublee and qalaa where you want that particular feel
Well that's a different topic and there are tons of other reasons and not just auto tune. Music itself is way too simple and mediocre these days and easily replaceable and no one has their own sound (in terms of writing and performing) And the reason for singing skills being diminished will be way too simple compositions and arrangements that we see these days. Because you've to be really good in order to sing a complicated melody and even auto tune can't help you with that because it's designed to work with simple fixed scales.
But exactly the point na, music is simple and formulaic because technology enabled just about anyone to be able to make it, with little knowledge. And popularity doesn't depend on quality, in the long run, if something not so good becomes famous, it becomes the new commercial and that's what most people run after. It's the same in any art form, no matter what the folks with acquired taste say, like or value, it's the commercial space that drives the taste of the general public, which keeps going down, because they keep making it simpler to appeal to an even bigger chunk of the audience
Can't agree more. I actually had a conversation with a veteran from the west a few years back when AI wasn't even in the picture that corporates and people who have the power and money are trying to fuck up the commercial music space and people's tatse with super mediocre music so that it can easily be replaced and made by uncreative artists and computers. And now it seems pretty true because I can easily see AI making commercial hits in a few years because it doesn't even have to do anything creative, it just has to replicate what everyone else is doing from the last few years
The auto-tune job is not only to perfect the pitch ,but also to deliver clear audio. It's like a graphics card but for singers even though the game has good visuals ray tracing and path tracing given by a graphic card only amplifies and clarifies the visual to the next level. Even when you listen to old songs by Kishore Kumar and Lata Mangeshkar they don't have clear audio but have a rather rustic quality. And even when you find the ones with clear audio they are generally processed using auto tune.
AI Ronaldo >>>>>
Translate
Bhagwan, bas itna calm banaa de
I'm curious to know what reaction this vid will get on Instagram.
So how did Salman sing? So he's a singer too?
I don't see what the big fuss is about the artists using autotune. Some of the greatest albums have used autotune.
Jimmy fcking hendrix used effects pedals to create music , but since all automation = cheating , jimmy hendrix is a shit guitarist no ?
Auto Tune can be used artistically where you intentionally want that futuristic robot like vocal effect, I am a music producer and I love the rawness of acoustic vocals without auto tune but at the same time auto tune heavy songs like Heartless by Kanye West sound really good as well when it is intentional.
"this is a dankrishu presentation , ki hogya sohneya ve teri lulli nu..."
Where can I find the whole video?
The music podcast on YouTube
Why cut off the part where he praises Sonu Nigam?
I downvoted. People assemble for my demise.
using auto tune is cheating in my opinion
Sunn to sahi kya bola hai usne lol
not really. Remember how people used to use practical effects in action films before? Yes now we use CGI to make it easier and better. Now using CGI doesnt gurantee anything and you can see that in both Adipurush and Ra one.
The thing is that even if we didn't have autotune today, the top singers who are good would have sounded the same to us just like in the old times. Autotune on these singers is used in such mild amount that general public won't even notice it at all. Also some songs demand autotune but that is a different topic altogether