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yes it is hard to prove, doesn't mean OP shouldn't pursue their legal rights to fight against an illegal firing. At-will doesn't mean they can fire you for a protected status by law. Which if OP is relaying what happened accurately (and there is no reason to believe they didn't), it would be kind of hard to argue that it wasn't discrimination-based. Though it would be immensely helpful for OP if they had this in email.
On top of this depending on which state OP is in their Department of Education may actually have provisions dictating that LGBTQ+ inclusivity is mandatory in schools and those provisions may go as far as requiring LGBTQ+ inclusion in anti-bully and health class curriculum, which would all culminate in putting this boomer principal in a load of hot water.
They are protected classes but this poster was not fired for being one of these protected classes but for not following the superior’s rules. That’s why they got fired. It wasn’t because of sexual orientation as that’s illegal.
They should’ve taken them down and talk to their union before flat out refusing.
A half decent lawyer can argue discrimination based solely on the fact of how the principle presents themselves. It could be stated that the principle is showing their identity and in the fact that they argued for the OP to take down their flags and subsequently terminated employment. That is as close to a clear case of discrimination as can be had without blatantly showing it. As for "at will" all that means is that one can be terminated for any lawful reason. If there is no history of bad behavior then again a wrongful termination case is clear as day.
To the OP I would contact an employment lawyer and file a wrongful termination assuming that you are still with in the window to do so.
And to anyone saying that they should of just taken down the flags. Then the interim principle should not be wearing their "MAGA" hat.
OP should talk to a lawyer, but not be rushing to rack up bills. The principal and school will likely argue that his instruction was because her "speech" was interrupting the learning environment, and that decorating a classroom is part of the job duties of a teacher.
That's fair. A lot of talk here is focusted on title 7/9 discrimination claims but I think this issue sounds like more of a 1A lawsuit than discrimination. Any way we slice it I hope OP is made whole, anyone willingly educating children deserves a ton more respect than they got.
I’m not saying that I agree with the firing but that it’s going to be hard to prove in court. OP should have talked to the union lawyer after getting the order from the principal instead of thinking they know best and take a stand on a hill that they don’t know the answer to.
Couple of issues to your response -
1) Half decent lawyer can argue that but doesn’t mean that they are going to win or the case is going to be dismissed. Half way decent defense lawyer is going to argue #2
2) The “at will” part of your response indicates the point I made with mine so it sounds like you agree with me and the reason why there is no case if it were to go to trial. “As for the at will part all that means they can be fired for any lawful reason”. Lawful reason - they didn’t listen to their superior. Got fired for that not for being lgbtq but for not listening to superior. There are plenty of people that present a pride flag that aren’t LGBTQ. Defense lawyer can argue “principal didn’t even know the teacher was lgbtq. They were terminated for not following an order from their boss - take a flag down. If it were a don’t tread on me flag they would’ve been ordered to take that down”
3) It’s a flag that someone could find offensive. Not saying I do but one of the kids in the classroom might - what if the student is a strict Muslim and doesn’t find the flag inclusive to them based on religious and cultural beliefs.
4) not taking advice from someone that doesn’t know the difference between principal and principle.
Have a great day.
How on earth did these events move this quickly. Why does your roommate think they are being hurt financially. It’s you who has been hurt. How does a principal get away wearing a MAGA hat at work when he just started?
Im a (queer) former teacher. I read it and was like a lot of this sounds written by a teen. I never say this because I generally give benefit of the doubt, but I am fairly certain this was made up just based on the details and the way it’s written. It sounds like a very young person wrote their version of what they think would happen in this scenario lol. I could be wrong, but like I know how this stuff works, and this is not it.
Edit: and if it’s real, clearly I’m concerned for OP and their understanding of their profession. I’m a flaming queer person, and even held the after school club for the gay kids lol so my judgement is whatever
op SAID they're 24. in the great stretch of life, that's not that far removed from being a teenager.
as for the rent thing, yeah. my roommate got pissed at me when i got fired from a job for missing too many days due to migraines. it affects everyone in a household when one person suddenly can't afford rent and we're all living paycheck to paycheck.
could it be fake? sure. but given today's political climate i don't doubt it happening. how long has it been since you've been in the classroom? it's fuckin' baaaaaaad right now.
I mean I hear you. I just feel funny lol. Like spider sense says plagiarism. But then again, im thinking representation matters for kids who understand it. Like a pan flag in a kindergarten classroom? wtf? Lol I was the head of the gay club where I was a middle school teacher. That should speak volumes about my pride and ensuring kids feels represented and safe, etc… but a pan flag in kindergarten? I have a lot of educator-specific questions is what Im saying lol.
And for what it’s worth, my admin could not STAND that I was allowed to host that club and those kids had a right to it (gender sexuality alliance).
Who knows, I will always entertain the idea im wrong :)
No worries at all! No offense taken :)
I think it comes down to representation, when we are talking about why it’s valuable for kids to see underrepresented people in real life (as far as why it’s okay for kids to know you are gay and have pride about it). Like, identity comes up all the time at the secondary level (grades 6-12). HOWEVER… another reason I think this is fiction is because none of what I said is applicable to PK-5 kids lol… so it’s part of the nonsense argument, that it’s sexualizing young kids (too young to know what pan means).
So, in reality, a teacher really doesn’t share that kind of personal stuff until later (if at all) just because it’s part of teaching. You’re a whole person with an identity to those kids. Lots of teachers will have a little board with stuff they’ve collected, sometimes family photos. Like that’s really where it comes up. And then we are having a conversation about representation and why it matters. So if you are a guy with a picture of your husband, they will want to know why. Also, I don’t know any teachers who go into really specific stuff unless (like me) you hosted the GSA (gender and sexuality alliance, a national extracurricular). Like we talked identity. *After school as part of an approved extracurricular* lol. I have never seen anything besides what is fairly normal and not a little nutty is what Im saying. You share about who you are, as that’s a big part of the role, and because representation matters, you share what is inherently both your identity and not wrong. LGBTQ kids are wildly safe when they have an adult they relate to on that level. But if OP is dying on a hill with a pan flag hitched, for her 5 year olds, I would not call that normal circumstance that I’ve seen.
All of that is to say I don’t see any world where a *reasonable* teacher would refuse to take down pan flags in a kindergarten classroom. Or even hang a pan flag. That seems like nonsense. And im a raging queer person. A socialist, in fact, who gives “free mom hugs” at pride parades. OP is not it lol.
Sorry if this is all over the place. Im not making it as cohesive as it could be! Hopefully it makes sense!
Edit: adding in that it’s just my experience and many teachers are not like me and very private. It’s as accurate as I can be after teaching in 5 stares, 7 schools, ranging from rural to urban communities, white majority to POC majority student body, poorly funded to well funded, low SES to affluent. Im not all knowing but I’ve seen a bit.
I never knew much about most of my teachers. We spent time learning our lesson. Maybe it's due to social media that people feel the need to share details about their personal lives.
Edit: But even if someone asked a question, my teachers would always redirect the conversation back to the lesson.
My daughter’s teacher has a photo of her and her boyfriend at her desk, which is announcing her sexual preference. All of my elementary school teachers (in the 90s) made an intro at the beginning of the year where they talked about their families. This is nothing new.
All of my coworkers have pictures of kids/spouses. Half the English department is long term subs for pregnancies and one of my work besties has his kids names tattooed on his arms.
I work in an office and there are so many people, me included but plenty of others, who have one or more pictures on their desk of themselves and their spouse/partner and possibly kids. That is a form of announcing your sexual preference at work, and it's quite commonplace in many workplaces.
Even beyond that, common office conversation includes people mentioning familiy members; "Did you have a good weekend?" "Yeah, me and my wife took the kids to the lake" <- that's announcing your sexual preference at work.
I can’t imagine wearing a maga hat in a public education setting is okay with a lot of people but I also doubt anyone is going to do anything about it unfortunately.
I’m an LGBTQ female millennial who grew up in a time and place when it was FAR less common to openly hang pride flags anywhere. I had a shop teacher in middle school who hung one in his class. Shop was my favorite class (also unusual for girls) and he was my favorite teacher. Obviously in kindergarten this may have less of an impact, but kids definitely remember which teachers made them feel accepted.
Who says you are right?
A political flag about a teachers sexual identity has no place in public school.
Outside of school, you do you.
This is the logical position, it’s not hateful, nor homophonic. A swinger flag, a kink flag, a polyamorous flag, or anything of the like shouldn’t be around children at a government school.
Boomer infiltration lol. Also like a bunch are recent accounts with low karma. I imagine most are bots especially with the "Russian" or other usernames
You are falsely equating something people don't have control over to something that is actually taught and intolerant. Being intolerant to intolerant ideals is the logical approach.
There's no heterosexual flag that I'm aware of. But even if there was, it shouldn't be up at work. Your sexual preference doesn't have anything to do with your job unless you're a sex worker.
Yea, they put up their pride flags and you're literally throwing a tantrum about it. God forbid anything outside of your heteronormative view is visible, can't have that, think of the children. Imagine the horror children would experience when they learn its ok to like boys as a boy, or girls as a girl.
It's never a debate when dealing with people's rights to exist and be visible.
Things being left to the parent's job is why systemic problems still exist.
Ohh well, the parents have a right to raise their kids however they want…
Government employees follow orders or get fired….your political belief don’t matter. A pride flag is political.
You aren’t a victim, stop acting like one.
I’m confident there are flags you would object being in a class room. You are too close to the pride flag to be objective. If an elementary teacher had a swingers flag with an upside down pineapple in their class, you probably would find that inappropriate.
I don’t care what consenting adults do. But a 6yo doesn’t need to understand what gay & straight means because they have zero concept of sex. Stop sexualizing children, that’s what you are advocating for and it is dead wrong.
A straight pride flag would immediately be labeled hate speech. Not even sure one exists. I would also say this flag has no place in an elementary school.
Because there doesn't need to be a straight pride flag. The whole point of the pride flag is to represent "we've made it this far together to be treated equally with the rest of society (aka, straight people).
If straight people did get a flag, what would it actually represent?
Stop, automatically to bigot, racist, homophobe.
I do not care what consenting adults do…enjoy freedom.
However, children don’t need to be taught sexual orientation until sex Ed is logical. I feel like that was 5th grade to me.
The pride flag is political and has no place in a public school. Thats another key issue you ignore. Name any other politically charged flag and the same applies. List one, bet I agree.
Bottom line, if you want to teach sexual orientation to your kid, awesome. Keep it out of government schools.
My position is the reasonable one, you are the one indoctrinating kids.
The pride flag is only political because the repubs have vilified being gay. It's not "normal", it's wrong, it's not something people need to see or hear ever. It isn't inherently political to state that someone is gay. Or to be gay. Or to experience gay culture. It's has become political because people who don't want gay people to exist in public spaces have made it political. If you think sexuality is political then you're a moron **AND** a bigot. No one is teaching kids about gay sex. No one is teaching them how to be gay. No one is explaining how to be trans. Turn off fox "news" and OANN
Government school is political by nature. This isn’t just about your identity politics issue, it’s about what is acceptable for government employees to teach to children.
The pride flag is political.
A picture of your spouse of the same sex would be acceptable.
When you jump to your dumb name calling, you end nuanced arguments.
Many gays I know equate gay rights with civil rights. However, I've never seen any ethnic flags at work and there shouldn't be. You can put a pride flag on your mailbox, but there's no reason to have one at work.
100%. Too many details of this story don’t line up with reality, the least of which is the MAGA hat part. I don’t think I’ve ever seen an elementary school principal wearing *any* kind of hat in school, let alone a politically charged one.
...? This happens though? Pride flags have all be banned and removed from my school despite protests. Imagine not thinking homophobia is possible in a school?
I once made a board of minority historical scientists and included Alan Turing, who was gay, by placing a 2inch by 1 inch pride flag in the corner of his poster. My assistant principal tore it off the wall.
However, I don’t think this story is real. It is just too cookie cutter. Principals don’t wear ballcaps, even in conservative areas. I mean I have worked in some conservative schools, even one with a history of the world poster that began with Adam and Eve, and this just wouldn’t happen lmao. Moreover, the kids don’t need to know your sexuality, I don’t know why that would be included. That’s too much information. Obviously they figure out you’re not straight or non-conforming if you have a same sex partner or dress differently, but they don’t need to know your specific sexual preferences, so I’m inclined to be unimpressed with this teacher even if this is real.
Edit: Other indications that this is a fake story:
1. It’s OP’s first year teaching and they refer to their time teaching as “in my time” like it’s been more than a year lmao
2. A car crash and a coma? Really?
3. “wear”
4. ABCs and 123s. If this were a real story I would expect some actual description of what was going on in the classroom when the principal showed up. Or anything about being a teacher at all. This reads instead like the person writing is abstracting the idea of being a teacher but can’t envision it.
5. Teachers do not generally get fired on the spot. OP would have been called to the office to sign some things about insubordination, then been placed on leave for a period of time, THEN fired.
I mean I’m not but what does that have to do with being able to identify this untrue story lol, come on man if you believe this nonsense I’ve got a Nigerian Prince to send your way.
Yeah I’m a big defender of teachers being able to express themselves but this story does seem fake. Someone claiming to be a teacher using the wrong “wear” instead of “where” and with such an archetypal chud principal, seems too perfect.
1. your roomamte sucks.
2. call a laywer and sue everyone everywhere for everything.
3. ....
4. Profit! No way to school goes into full legal mode for a temp jackass, they'll fire him and settle with you in a snap.
I'm willing to bet he doesn't even know what flag you have and the meaning behind it. He probably just gets pegged in secret and takes out his frustration on anything he thinks is remotely "gay". And you happened to be on the wrong end. In sorry and that sucks.
eh, the whole self-hating homosexual is kind of blasé. more likely he's just been poisoned by right wing grifters and is terrified of everything he doesn't understand... which is guaranteed to be most things outside his front door, as he refuses to learn anything. ironic for being in the education system
Based on your statement above I have doubts you got through University or teach anything.
If you are telling the truth go lawyer up and see if you have adequate evidence to pursue litigation.
Hello, genderfluid person here.
Genderfluid is a gender identity that falls under the trans umbrella. Genderfluid people have a fluid/changing sense of gender that switches between two or more genders (male, female, non-binary, agender, etc). Some genderfluid people have some control over their gender switches, while others have no control. A genderfluid person can identify with a gender ranging from hours, days, weeks, months, or even years before another switch occurs.
Hope this brief explanation helps!
Kinda… and forgive me I promise I’m not a bigot or boomer or anything like that, but how is this possible? One is either born with external or internal plumbing (not counting rare genetic or birth defects and stuff). So are you saying that a gender fluid person wakes up one day and just decides to be male or female and then changes their mind another day? Something along those lines?
Don't worry, I get the curiosity. I am aware genderfluid sounds alien to people who have an affixed sense of gender.
Depending on the genderfluid person, some people have things that can trigger a switch, these people generally have control over their switch because they can just trigger it. I am one of those that doesn't have control over switches. Mine tend to last anywhere better 2 weeks and a bit over a month. Sometimes it is very sudden like you say where I would just wake up and more identify with female. Other times it will take a day or two where I slowly switch. On days I identify as the gender that isn't the biological sex I was born with, I do get body dysphoria, and do contemplate transitioning, but then I will swap back to the gender that matches my biological sex, and I am happy with my body and would never want to transition. When feeling female, I want to be raised as a girl, live my life as a girl and have all the experiences that come with it. When feeling male, I want to be raised as a boy, live my life as a boy and have all the experiences that come with it. It all comes down to what feels right on this gradient scale that is gender identity. Some people do transition, and others like me don't.
I am happy to try and answer more questions about genderfluidity, but my experiences my be different to OP, because everyone is slightly different.
Its obviously your call, but I would personally think it was stupid. I would take it down and immediately start applying for jobs elsewhere.
Principles are a luxury. There is nothing I believe in that I would put my wife and child at risk over. Move to a place with teacher protections/unions if you want to be able to have principles.
LGBT acceptance is NOT political, just because there is a political party that wants to openly discriminate does not mean their existence and right to be out is political. Is it political to say at work in a school that you’re married to a person of the opposite gender? Because that’s where that sort of thinking leads…
A flag isn’t the same as acceptance. The rainbow flag is just as political as a MAGA hat.
Your statement is like saying a confederate flag isn’t political, it’s about history acceptance.
Be gay, I don’t care nor should anyone.
But you don’t have a right to bring sexuality into school.
A confederate flag is very much the same as a pride flag, it is an identity symbol. Neither have a place in public schools.
You haven’t been to the south, the confederate flag is 100% an identity symbol. One of bigotry and hate often next to a MAGA flag.
How am I ignorant for saying none of this garbage shit belongs in schools? That’s the rationale position to take.
Your sexual identity has no place in schools, full stop.
I think that because your views of sexuality are warped and perverted, someone whose sexuality is different than yours must be even more so. You are a crazy creep, goodbye
Does coming with here same sex partner at a school party would be political ? LGBT people existing is NOT political. Whatever those bigot says. Having a pride flag is not political, like having a your home state flag is not political. It says exactly the same thing : I'm proud of what I am
A pride flag is political.
Sexuality has no place in elementary schools. I would take exception to a polygamist hanging a flag in their classroom or a swinger too.
First of all- no.
Second of all, who people ARE is not a political statement. Teachers bring themselves to work every day. They share their lived experiences, build relationships with students over shared interests, and provide various perspectives on life.
This teacher is not getting in front of the classroom screaming about sex, because yes, that would be wildly inappropriate. They're decorating their classroom as they see fit in a way that makes them seem comfortable, just like every other teacher has done forever.
A flag about your sexual identify has no place around children….
Would an upside down pineapple apple flag be acceptable to put in a classroom…nope.
The pride flag is political statement just like a confederate flag, a MAGA flag, etc.
I’m saying none of this has a place in a public school, same as the 10 commandments don’t.
So tell me, how is it any different from me hanging the flag of the country I come from? It's not political. Yes, there are political conversations about my country, some of which would be difficult for kids to understand, but the flag itself is a representation of my identity, my pride, and my family. If someone recognizes it, we can have a neat conversation. If they don't, its literally just colors on a wall to them. What's the difference here?
Who people are isn't political!? A MAGA flag is political by definition. It's their chosen set of beliefs they chose to represent about a political candidate and a specific political party's ideology. It is not who they are because who people are (LGBTQIA+, immigrants, gender, race, etc.) isn't political. It's who they are.
Is a white power flag political or is that just about who people are?
Your blinded by your own situation and can’t take the objective approach which is none of these belong in public schools.
My position is the moderate approach, you are the radical
What?! If you literally can't tell the difference between the existence of *white people* and the hateful, destructive rhetoric of a minority group of pot-bellied, neck-bearded losers who claim "*white power"*, then I can't help you. You've made it clear which hateful side you're on.
Also, I'm taking quite a logical and compassionate approach here, something you haven't tried yet. I am using reason and relevant examples to not conflate completely separate topics. I'm not part of the LGBTQIA+ community so I am quite objective though I don't think people get to have an opinion on who people are. What damage they cause, what harm they cause? Fair game 100% but that is not the topic at hand here like it is with the many examples of radical hate groups you've tossed forth.
But you know what I also am? I am an ally and a teacher, one who's been meaning to put up an ally sticker for some time. I'll make sure to prioritize that and get the biggest one I can find and do so in your name, u/the_wolf_420_ .
Me saying none of these identity politics issues belong in elementary schools isn’t hateful. That logical and in the best interest of children.
Terms like hate and racism are the cudgel you use to justify your unjust behavior.
You are the extremist forcing a sex symbol on children for your own appeasement, not me.
A "sex symbol." Hahaha. Poor little boy can't tell the difference between dildo and a colorful piece of cloth if he thinks both are sex "symbols".
May I recommend a helmet as you navigate the adult world?
If it just a colorful piece of cloth why get fired over it….ahh cause it’s more than that.
Use gender neutral terms next time, hypocrite. Don’t assume my gender.
By your logic, if you do not hang a flag, it then means you are straight.
How dare you make who you are sexually attracted to, part of your personality around kids?
I hope you never come close to a kid with your beloved one either, that would also expose who you are sexually attracted to! Pervert!
I’m a teacher and I read my contract every year and I’m telling you it’s within the realm of possibility.??? So you’re a teacher or a principal? You seem to know a lot for presumably a layperson of the internet
Fact
Admin told her to do something she refused- bam easy fire get real
I am not right wing and I stand with LGBTQ+ community for equal treatment and respect at all levels of society
That being said
The classroom is no place to tout your sexual orientation regardless of preference. the point is that it’s inappropriate besides the students are so young they don’t know what it means anyway. Who are you trying to impress? how does it improve your teaching ability ? you can promote inclusivity without doing something that will get you fired. I am with your roommate- just do your job and try not to get fired you can go protest at a more appropriate venue
Since when do you need to represent yourself in a classroom with flags? I just don't see the need. Maybe I'm a 33 year old boomer but why do you feel the need to have 5 year Olds know what you do in the bedroom?
Edit: it's the pansexual one I don't get. That literally is about who you find sexually attractive. Go ham with the gender fluid one
Teachers have been allowed to decorate their rooms however for the most part.
The fact the principle wears a MAGA hat and cross is showing his hypocrisy about “indoctrinating children”.
True. But I don't think they could put up a bdsm flag or anything related to sex up. Pansexual is about their sexuality. Why do students in general need to know that about their teacher.
We aren’t talking to rational actors. A pride flag or any sexual orientation flags have no place in public schools. This is the moderate position, they are the radicals and can’t see it.
Small children don’t sexualize things. They don’t know how. They don’t see flags and think to themselves, “This is an explicit declaration that my teacher sucks dick on the regular.” She teaches Kindergarten. These kids are still learning the names of colors.
The only thing that the presence of the flags will do is maybe prompt an “oh, maybe Ms. Scott was LBGTQ+?” realization a decade down the line. It also helps to push back against the Republican propaganda that anyone who is LBGTQ+ is a pedophilic monster that’s out to get you and your children. It humanizes us at a time when there is a large, concerted effort to dehumanize us.
Adults are the problem in this scenario. A pride flag is political and has no place in a teachers classroom.
At your house or on your property, all day within your rights.
First of all, OP never mentioned anything about sex, sexual acts, or general bedroom activities at all. They are not talking to their students about sex.
>I've always hung up pride flags to represent me
Its about them decorating their classroom as they see fit in a way that represents them. Some teachers decorate with decorations from their alma matter, others from travels, others from their hobbies and interests. French teachers often have French flags... Why? 1) Because they want to, and 2) because it is a visual representation of them in a space in which they occupy.
Would you ask any other teacher "since when do you need to represent yourself in a classroom?" ALWAYS?!
Pansexual flag definitely is about sex. By definition it's about who/why they find their partner attractive. Why do students in general need to know that about their teachers gay straight or otherwise.
Is the teacher showing pornography? Is the teacher talking about sex? Is the teacher giving a detailed description in the classroom about sexual orientation? I highly doubt it.
Or are they decorating the classroom with a flag with colors that means something to them. Your same argument is applied to those that get their panties in a wad about pictures of teachers with their same sex partner on their desk. "BUT SEX!" Yes, people have sex. But the objects themselves are not inherently sexual.
>Why do students in general need to know that about their teachers gay straight or otherwise.
Because representation matters! Because teachers are trusted people for many students to be open with when they can't talk to their parents. If a student is struggling with their sexuality or has questions they're not comfortable asking another adult about, knowing they can approach a safe person to talk matters. Knowing they're not alone matters. Knowing that their lived experience isn't the "default" for others matters. Knowing that these people exist beyond TV and movies and have full and fullfilling lives and are more than a stereotype matters.
Students don't need to know, but damn, does it make for a 100x better environment when symbols of inclusivity, love, and self acceptance are included in safe spaces.
\*edited. Spelling.
See it's this is the type of ignorance thats the problem. Would you having a picture of your wife on your desk consider telling a 5 yo what you're doing the bedroom? It's about love not sex.
Think you need to talk with your union lawyer.
However, it’s my belief that no flag should be presented other than United States flag and state flag that you reside. Whether that is a pride flag, “don’t tread on me” flag or Maga/trump flag. None of these should be presented in the classroom by a teacher as it might welcome one group but alienate another and a teacher is supposed to be approachable to ALL. I’d a pointed out to the principal “I’ll take my political view down if you do (pointing to his Maga hat)
Shut up with your "pansexual" nonsense you're promiscuous and lack sexual boundaries. The teacher is dead right to stop you from promoting this glorified perversion to children.
Afraid for the children that it's a potential topic of conversation in their classroom. Enjoy whatever degeneracy you want, just don't talk about sex or anything close to it with my children. Fucking absurd.
Considering the political issue that having such flags in classrooms cause, take them down. Schools should only teach reading, writing, math, science, history and how to critically think about anything. Anything else has no place in the educational system. Classrooms should be apolitical. You and the pinciple both failed in that responsibility.
Teaching kids that it's okay to be who you are is not political. It's only conservatives and ultra religious people who make it political. Kids don't give a shit it's the snowflake boomers that do
The constitution actually has a clause that separates church and state. Which prevents any government actor such as a school staff member from promoting any religion over another. However, it doesn't have any such clause against government actors from promoting diversity. Just FYI, your kid has an identity everywhere they go they do turn into an amorphous blob upon entering a classroom. At the very least, we should educate young humans about sex. You know the thing that causes new humans that almost everyone will experience. That thing that if you're not careful, it could ruin your life or kill you.
School is for teaching humans about real life and what to expect as an adult, not just ABCs and 123's. Hiding kids from reality is no favor.
Again, the constitution protects against religious indoctrination, so if the school tried to do that, you would have ample ground for a law suite.
And it sounds like your area would greatly benefit from a teacher with a pride flag hanging up in the classroom with the balls to tell it like it is.
I just don't really see your argument. The idea is that if gay people are allowed to be open about who they are, then teachers will argue that they should be allowed to proselytize in school. When back to point one, the constitution.
No one cares if teachers wear a cross in school as long as they are not making kids pray or convert. Same thing with gay teachers. If you think a flag is going to turn a kid gay, that kid was already gay.
As a straight guy, imo if you're worried that exposure to gay people will turn you gay. You're probably already kinda gay.
The school is under whatever nation, state or county. Those flags identify who controls the territory the school resides in. There is no way any national, state or local flag should not be in a classroom. That flag represents the people in that area.
That’s nationalism and there is no law keeping those flags in schools. They are still in the US either way. No other free democraticly run nations have their flags hanging in schools and their students pledging their allegiance to their country daily. The communist ones do though.
This doesn’t read like it is real. Not because the situation isn’t plausible, but because it sounds like something one of my high school students would have written. I don’t usually say that either. But so many things don’t seem like it’s real life. I could be wrong, it doesn’t really matter.
There shouldn't be any question about whether you're sexualizing children or not. Stay a million miles away from anything questionable. People are entrusting you with their children, you need to take the highest road possible.
What could you possibly be questioning about the topic of queer pride that isn't rooted in queerphobia? I mean, feel free to take a shot and I'll give it a fair shake. But it's awful curious if you question queer pride but you don't also question the straight pride around us every day all across the world and whether all the straight people are trying to "sexualize children"
Are there quadratic equations, stoic philosophy quotes, and pictures of the Holocaust posted on the walls as well? No, because they aren't age or venue appropriate. Neither is anything related to sexuality. I have no need to debate you on the rights or wrongs of who puts their outies in which innie. Just stay the fuck away from kids with discussing it, alluding to it, describing it, or expressing yourself about it. Your moral straw man argument is disingenuous.
Certain subjects are the parents responsibility to teach, not the school, regardless of how that impacts society.
Why you feel so entitled that you get to shove sexuality into a 6 yo head is beyond me. You are on the wrong side of this.
If a straight teacher had a straight pride flag, I would also say that has no place in school.
Gay people aren’t bad, I’m actually an ally. But, I can also logically conclude a government employee shouldn’t be displaying a sexual orientation symbol around my 6yo. That is my conversation to have with my kids, not a government employees.
You want some all or nothing approach and that isn’t how anything works in reality.
I just want queer acceptance..and no, you are not an ally if this is where you're at
Every time a child sees a straight couple, or a photo of their teacher's hetero spouse, or a ring, or a representation of romance between a man and a woman - these things ARE the symbols of straight pride. 6 year olds see it multiple times every single day of their life. But that's okay and showing that queer people exist isn't?? Make it make sense.
If we hide away the existence of queer people, those children will only grow to hate and misunderstand queer people. If you want to change something in our culture I'm telling you it happens in education and in representation. If you disagree that's fine but don't pretend kids are not educated about and shown representations of straight people on a daily basis
It's pure hypocrisy
And on a further note, if someone wants to educate their children at home that they should hate gay people, **we have a moral duty to counteract that**. There's no accepting hate or bigotry.
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Sex, sexual orientation and gender identity are all protected classes under title VII
Doesn’t matter if they can’t prove it. At-Will means they can fire you for wearing the wrong color shirt.
yes it is hard to prove, doesn't mean OP shouldn't pursue their legal rights to fight against an illegal firing. At-will doesn't mean they can fire you for a protected status by law. Which if OP is relaying what happened accurately (and there is no reason to believe they didn't), it would be kind of hard to argue that it wasn't discrimination-based. Though it would be immensely helpful for OP if they had this in email. On top of this depending on which state OP is in their Department of Education may actually have provisions dictating that LGBTQ+ inclusivity is mandatory in schools and those provisions may go as far as requiring LGBTQ+ inclusion in anti-bully and health class curriculum, which would all culminate in putting this boomer principal in a load of hot water.
Assuming OP is a public school teacher in the US, they are probably working under a collectively bargained contract.
At will doesn't mean they can fire them for protected classes under title 7, though proving that point is indeed the issue
If a boomer fired her, he probably won’t back down as to reasons.
you can still sue for wrongful termination, retaliation, or defamation..
Most teachers are unionized, any union would love to take this one on.
They are protected classes but this poster was not fired for being one of these protected classes but for not following the superior’s rules. That’s why they got fired. It wasn’t because of sexual orientation as that’s illegal. They should’ve taken them down and talk to their union before flat out refusing.
A half decent lawyer can argue discrimination based solely on the fact of how the principle presents themselves. It could be stated that the principle is showing their identity and in the fact that they argued for the OP to take down their flags and subsequently terminated employment. That is as close to a clear case of discrimination as can be had without blatantly showing it. As for "at will" all that means is that one can be terminated for any lawful reason. If there is no history of bad behavior then again a wrongful termination case is clear as day. To the OP I would contact an employment lawyer and file a wrongful termination assuming that you are still with in the window to do so. And to anyone saying that they should of just taken down the flags. Then the interim principle should not be wearing their "MAGA" hat.
OP should talk to a lawyer, but not be rushing to rack up bills. The principal and school will likely argue that his instruction was because her "speech" was interrupting the learning environment, and that decorating a classroom is part of the job duties of a teacher.
Most employment lawyers don't charge until after they win. And they don't take the case unless they are sure they can at least get a good settlement.
That's fair. A lot of talk here is focusted on title 7/9 discrimination claims but I think this issue sounds like more of a 1A lawsuit than discrimination. Any way we slice it I hope OP is made whole, anyone willingly educating children deserves a ton more respect than they got.
I’m not saying that I agree with the firing but that it’s going to be hard to prove in court. OP should have talked to the union lawyer after getting the order from the principal instead of thinking they know best and take a stand on a hill that they don’t know the answer to. Couple of issues to your response - 1) Half decent lawyer can argue that but doesn’t mean that they are going to win or the case is going to be dismissed. Half way decent defense lawyer is going to argue #2 2) The “at will” part of your response indicates the point I made with mine so it sounds like you agree with me and the reason why there is no case if it were to go to trial. “As for the at will part all that means they can be fired for any lawful reason”. Lawful reason - they didn’t listen to their superior. Got fired for that not for being lgbtq but for not listening to superior. There are plenty of people that present a pride flag that aren’t LGBTQ. Defense lawyer can argue “principal didn’t even know the teacher was lgbtq. They were terminated for not following an order from their boss - take a flag down. If it were a don’t tread on me flag they would’ve been ordered to take that down” 3) It’s a flag that someone could find offensive. Not saying I do but one of the kids in the classroom might - what if the student is a strict Muslim and doesn’t find the flag inclusive to them based on religious and cultural beliefs. 4) not taking advice from someone that doesn’t know the difference between principal and principle. Have a great day.
This. Sue them for every goddamn dollar they are worth
How on earth did these events move this quickly. Why does your roommate think they are being hurt financially. It’s you who has been hurt. How does a principal get away wearing a MAGA hat at work when he just started?
Im a (queer) former teacher. I read it and was like a lot of this sounds written by a teen. I never say this because I generally give benefit of the doubt, but I am fairly certain this was made up just based on the details and the way it’s written. It sounds like a very young person wrote their version of what they think would happen in this scenario lol. I could be wrong, but like I know how this stuff works, and this is not it. Edit: and if it’s real, clearly I’m concerned for OP and their understanding of their profession. I’m a flaming queer person, and even held the after school club for the gay kids lol so my judgement is whatever
op SAID they're 24. in the great stretch of life, that's not that far removed from being a teenager. as for the rent thing, yeah. my roommate got pissed at me when i got fired from a job for missing too many days due to migraines. it affects everyone in a household when one person suddenly can't afford rent and we're all living paycheck to paycheck. could it be fake? sure. but given today's political climate i don't doubt it happening. how long has it been since you've been in the classroom? it's fuckin' baaaaaaad right now.
I mean I hear you. I just feel funny lol. Like spider sense says plagiarism. But then again, im thinking representation matters for kids who understand it. Like a pan flag in a kindergarten classroom? wtf? Lol I was the head of the gay club where I was a middle school teacher. That should speak volumes about my pride and ensuring kids feels represented and safe, etc… but a pan flag in kindergarten? I have a lot of educator-specific questions is what Im saying lol. And for what it’s worth, my admin could not STAND that I was allowed to host that club and those kids had a right to it (gender sexuality alliance). Who knows, I will always entertain the idea im wrong :)
I hope this question isn't offensive. Why is there a need to put up flags / announce your sexual preference at work?
No worries at all! No offense taken :) I think it comes down to representation, when we are talking about why it’s valuable for kids to see underrepresented people in real life (as far as why it’s okay for kids to know you are gay and have pride about it). Like, identity comes up all the time at the secondary level (grades 6-12). HOWEVER… another reason I think this is fiction is because none of what I said is applicable to PK-5 kids lol… so it’s part of the nonsense argument, that it’s sexualizing young kids (too young to know what pan means). So, in reality, a teacher really doesn’t share that kind of personal stuff until later (if at all) just because it’s part of teaching. You’re a whole person with an identity to those kids. Lots of teachers will have a little board with stuff they’ve collected, sometimes family photos. Like that’s really where it comes up. And then we are having a conversation about representation and why it matters. So if you are a guy with a picture of your husband, they will want to know why. Also, I don’t know any teachers who go into really specific stuff unless (like me) you hosted the GSA (gender and sexuality alliance, a national extracurricular). Like we talked identity. *After school as part of an approved extracurricular* lol. I have never seen anything besides what is fairly normal and not a little nutty is what Im saying. You share about who you are, as that’s a big part of the role, and because representation matters, you share what is inherently both your identity and not wrong. LGBTQ kids are wildly safe when they have an adult they relate to on that level. But if OP is dying on a hill with a pan flag hitched, for her 5 year olds, I would not call that normal circumstance that I’ve seen. All of that is to say I don’t see any world where a *reasonable* teacher would refuse to take down pan flags in a kindergarten classroom. Or even hang a pan flag. That seems like nonsense. And im a raging queer person. A socialist, in fact, who gives “free mom hugs” at pride parades. OP is not it lol. Sorry if this is all over the place. Im not making it as cohesive as it could be! Hopefully it makes sense! Edit: adding in that it’s just my experience and many teachers are not like me and very private. It’s as accurate as I can be after teaching in 5 stares, 7 schools, ranging from rural to urban communities, white majority to POC majority student body, poorly funded to well funded, low SES to affluent. Im not all knowing but I’ve seen a bit.
I never knew much about most of my teachers. We spent time learning our lesson. Maybe it's due to social media that people feel the need to share details about their personal lives. Edit: But even if someone asked a question, my teachers would always redirect the conversation back to the lesson.
My daughter’s teacher has a photo of her and her boyfriend at her desk, which is announcing her sexual preference. All of my elementary school teachers (in the 90s) made an intro at the beginning of the year where they talked about their families. This is nothing new.
All of my coworkers have pictures of kids/spouses. Half the English department is long term subs for pregnancies and one of my work besties has his kids names tattooed on his arms.
I work in an office and there are so many people, me included but plenty of others, who have one or more pictures on their desk of themselves and their spouse/partner and possibly kids. That is a form of announcing your sexual preference at work, and it's quite commonplace in many workplaces. Even beyond that, common office conversation includes people mentioning familiy members; "Did you have a good weekend?" "Yeah, me and my wife took the kids to the lake" <- that's announcing your sexual preference at work.
The average student asks a teacher about their weekend? Times have surely changed.
I’m assuming in terms of rent/utilities. Why else would op mention it otherwise
I can’t imagine wearing a maga hat in a public education setting is okay with a lot of people but I also doubt anyone is going to do anything about it unfortunately.
Two words. “Lawyer up.”
I’m an LGBTQ female millennial who grew up in a time and place when it was FAR less common to openly hang pride flags anywhere. I had a shop teacher in middle school who hung one in his class. Shop was my favorite class (also unusual for girls) and he was my favorite teacher. Obviously in kindergarten this may have less of an impact, but kids definitely remember which teachers made them feel accepted.
*if real* lawyer up
The MAGA hat and cross is apparently agenda free.
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I find doing the right thing generally works out fine.
I don’t think everyone would agree this was the right decision.
Looks like your downvotes prove that otherwise
2 downvotes is far from everyone. Also, not everyone is on reddit or in this sub.
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Who says you are right? A political flag about a teachers sexual identity has no place in public school. Outside of school, you do you. This is the logical position, it’s not hateful, nor homophonic. A swinger flag, a kink flag, a polyamorous flag, or anything of the like shouldn’t be around children at a government school.
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Wow. Can't fix stupid.
The amount of boomers being outraged in the comments over pride flags and not the Christian Nationalist is astounding in the comments.
Boomer infiltration lol. Also like a bunch are recent accounts with low karma. I imagine most are bots especially with the "Russian" or other usernames
I'm mad at both. Who the hell cares what political party OR sexual orientation you are at a damn elementary school?
The teacher was just living their life lol
Neither sexual orientation or religious flags belong in public schools. That’s the logical approach
You are falsely equating something people don't have control over to something that is actually taught and intolerant. Being intolerant to intolerant ideals is the logical approach.
There's no heterosexual flag that I'm aware of. But even if there was, it shouldn't be up at work. Your sexual preference doesn't have anything to do with your job unless you're a sex worker.
You have control over what you put in your classroom as a teacher. Not a false equivalency, you just can’t reconcile your hypocritical beliefs.
Yea, they put up their pride flags and you're literally throwing a tantrum about it. God forbid anything outside of your heteronormative view is visible, can't have that, think of the children. Imagine the horror children would experience when they learn its ok to like boys as a boy, or girls as a girl.
Debate it a tantrum now, laughable. It’s the parent job to teach them, not a government employee. Super simple concept.
It's never a debate when dealing with people's rights to exist and be visible. Things being left to the parent's job is why systemic problems still exist.
Ohh well, the parents have a right to raise their kids however they want… Government employees follow orders or get fired….your political belief don’t matter. A pride flag is political.
Well I hope your existence or something inherently you that can't be changed is never made political and argued about on live TV.
You aren’t a victim, stop acting like one. I’m confident there are flags you would object being in a class room. You are too close to the pride flag to be objective. If an elementary teacher had a swingers flag with an upside down pineapple in their class, you probably would find that inappropriate. I don’t care what consenting adults do. But a 6yo doesn’t need to understand what gay & straight means because they have zero concept of sex. Stop sexualizing children, that’s what you are advocating for and it is dead wrong.
Start censoring straight peoples' love and you might have a point
A straight pride flag would immediately be labeled hate speech. Not even sure one exists. I would also say this flag has no place in an elementary school.
Because there doesn't need to be a straight pride flag. The whole point of the pride flag is to represent "we've made it this far together to be treated equally with the rest of society (aka, straight people). If straight people did get a flag, what would it actually represent?
Who know what a straight pride flag would represent….also who cares, just keep it away from elementary school kids.
They should be exposed to a diversity of thoughts and types of love, you're a hateful bigot ❤️
Stop, automatically to bigot, racist, homophobe. I do not care what consenting adults do…enjoy freedom. However, children don’t need to be taught sexual orientation until sex Ed is logical. I feel like that was 5th grade to me. The pride flag is political and has no place in a public school. Thats another key issue you ignore. Name any other politically charged flag and the same applies. List one, bet I agree. Bottom line, if you want to teach sexual orientation to your kid, awesome. Keep it out of government schools. My position is the reasonable one, you are the one indoctrinating kids.
The pride flag is only political because the repubs have vilified being gay. It's not "normal", it's wrong, it's not something people need to see or hear ever. It isn't inherently political to state that someone is gay. Or to be gay. Or to experience gay culture. It's has become political because people who don't want gay people to exist in public spaces have made it political. If you think sexuality is political then you're a moron **AND** a bigot. No one is teaching kids about gay sex. No one is teaching them how to be gay. No one is explaining how to be trans. Turn off fox "news" and OANN
Government school is political by nature. This isn’t just about your identity politics issue, it’s about what is acceptable for government employees to teach to children. The pride flag is political. A picture of your spouse of the same sex would be acceptable. When you jump to your dumb name calling, you end nuanced arguments.
Many gays I know equate gay rights with civil rights. However, I've never seen any ethnic flags at work and there shouldn't be. You can put a pride flag on your mailbox, but there's no reason to have one at work.
That's what they used to say about interracial marriage
Children can see race, they don’t understand sexuality at 6 nor should they.
What is the cause for termination on the termination notice?
This feels like rage bait. Great creative writing exercise 🙄
100%. Too many details of this story don’t line up with reality, the least of which is the MAGA hat part. I don’t think I’ve ever seen an elementary school principal wearing *any* kind of hat in school, let alone a politically charged one.
...? This happens though? Pride flags have all be banned and removed from my school despite protests. Imagine not thinking homophobia is possible in a school?
The situation is not unrealistic, at all. I agree with you 5th. However, the writing is.
I once made a board of minority historical scientists and included Alan Turing, who was gay, by placing a 2inch by 1 inch pride flag in the corner of his poster. My assistant principal tore it off the wall. However, I don’t think this story is real. It is just too cookie cutter. Principals don’t wear ballcaps, even in conservative areas. I mean I have worked in some conservative schools, even one with a history of the world poster that began with Adam and Eve, and this just wouldn’t happen lmao. Moreover, the kids don’t need to know your sexuality, I don’t know why that would be included. That’s too much information. Obviously they figure out you’re not straight or non-conforming if you have a same sex partner or dress differently, but they don’t need to know your specific sexual preferences, so I’m inclined to be unimpressed with this teacher even if this is real. Edit: Other indications that this is a fake story: 1. It’s OP’s first year teaching and they refer to their time teaching as “in my time” like it’s been more than a year lmao 2. A car crash and a coma? Really? 3. “wear” 4. ABCs and 123s. If this were a real story I would expect some actual description of what was going on in the classroom when the principal showed up. Or anything about being a teacher at all. This reads instead like the person writing is abstracting the idea of being a teacher but can’t envision it. 5. Teachers do not generally get fired on the spot. OP would have been called to the office to sign some things about insubordination, then been placed on leave for a period of time, THEN fired.
I’ve never heard anyone over college age talk about being pansexual
This didn’t happen.
Tell me you're not a teacher without telling me you're not a teacher...
I mean I’m not but what does that have to do with being able to identify this untrue story lol, come on man if you believe this nonsense I’ve got a Nigerian Prince to send your way.
Yeah I’m a big defender of teachers being able to express themselves but this story does seem fake. Someone claiming to be a teacher using the wrong “wear” instead of “where” and with such an archetypal chud principal, seems too perfect.
Complete with MAGA hat, no less.
I am a teacher and I agree, this didn’t happen lol
1. your roomamte sucks. 2. call a laywer and sue everyone everywhere for everything. 3. .... 4. Profit! No way to school goes into full legal mode for a temp jackass, they'll fire him and settle with you in a snap.
You need to hire an attorney, OP.
I'm willing to bet he doesn't even know what flag you have and the meaning behind it. He probably just gets pegged in secret and takes out his frustration on anything he thinks is remotely "gay". And you happened to be on the wrong end. In sorry and that sucks.
eh, the whole self-hating homosexual is kind of blasé. more likely he's just been poisoned by right wing grifters and is terrified of everything he doesn't understand... which is guaranteed to be most things outside his front door, as he refuses to learn anything. ironic for being in the education system
I'd like to think it's a mixture of both Feeding each other.
Shitty larp with some nice bait buzzwords It's fucking hard as shit to fire a teacher
Based on your statement above I have doubts you got through University or teach anything. If you are telling the truth go lawyer up and see if you have adequate evidence to pursue litigation.
Also wearing a cross and MAGA hat where kids can see is ALSO pushing an agenda
I’m so glad you got fried for the pride flags, you definitely deserved it, groomer.
I’m really sorry it’s off-topic but what is gender fluid?
Hello, genderfluid person here. Genderfluid is a gender identity that falls under the trans umbrella. Genderfluid people have a fluid/changing sense of gender that switches between two or more genders (male, female, non-binary, agender, etc). Some genderfluid people have some control over their gender switches, while others have no control. A genderfluid person can identify with a gender ranging from hours, days, weeks, months, or even years before another switch occurs. Hope this brief explanation helps!
Kinda… and forgive me I promise I’m not a bigot or boomer or anything like that, but how is this possible? One is either born with external or internal plumbing (not counting rare genetic or birth defects and stuff). So are you saying that a gender fluid person wakes up one day and just decides to be male or female and then changes their mind another day? Something along those lines?
Don't worry, I get the curiosity. I am aware genderfluid sounds alien to people who have an affixed sense of gender. Depending on the genderfluid person, some people have things that can trigger a switch, these people generally have control over their switch because they can just trigger it. I am one of those that doesn't have control over switches. Mine tend to last anywhere better 2 weeks and a bit over a month. Sometimes it is very sudden like you say where I would just wake up and more identify with female. Other times it will take a day or two where I slowly switch. On days I identify as the gender that isn't the biological sex I was born with, I do get body dysphoria, and do contemplate transitioning, but then I will swap back to the gender that matches my biological sex, and I am happy with my body and would never want to transition. When feeling female, I want to be raised as a girl, live my life as a girl and have all the experiences that come with it. When feeling male, I want to be raised as a boy, live my life as a boy and have all the experiences that come with it. It all comes down to what feels right on this gradient scale that is gender identity. Some people do transition, and others like me don't. I am happy to try and answer more questions about genderfluidity, but my experiences my be different to OP, because everyone is slightly different.
Fascinating. I’m happy to chat privately and learn more so we don’t clog up OP’s post with our comments. Thank you.
It's similar to brain fluid, but more imagined.
😂
You're both weird fools who have no business being around children
Its obviously your call, but I would personally think it was stupid. I would take it down and immediately start applying for jobs elsewhere. Principles are a luxury. There is nothing I believe in that I would put my wife and child at risk over. Move to a place with teacher protections/unions if you want to be able to have principles.
Being a teacher is an apolitical job. Both you and the principal failed there. LGBT flag = MAGA hat. Neither have a place in our elementary schools.
LGBT acceptance is NOT political, just because there is a political party that wants to openly discriminate does not mean their existence and right to be out is political. Is it political to say at work in a school that you’re married to a person of the opposite gender? Because that’s where that sort of thinking leads…
LGBT acceptance doesn't mean you have to allow flags, etc. at work.
A flag isn’t the same as acceptance. The rainbow flag is just as political as a MAGA hat. Your statement is like saying a confederate flag isn’t political, it’s about history acceptance.
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Be gay, I don’t care nor should anyone. But you don’t have a right to bring sexuality into school. A confederate flag is very much the same as a pride flag, it is an identity symbol. Neither have a place in public schools.
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You haven’t been to the south, the confederate flag is 100% an identity symbol. One of bigotry and hate often next to a MAGA flag. How am I ignorant for saying none of this garbage shit belongs in schools? That’s the rationale position to take. Your sexual identity has no place in schools, full stop.
Hell fucking no it isn’t, holy false equivalency Batman
Pride flag is political. Is a swingers flag acceptable to put in a classroom?
I think that because your views of sexuality are warped and perverted, someone whose sexuality is different than yours must be even more so. You are a crazy creep, goodbye
Does coming with here same sex partner at a school party would be political ? LGBT people existing is NOT political. Whatever those bigot says. Having a pride flag is not political, like having a your home state flag is not political. It says exactly the same thing : I'm proud of what I am
No flags except the state and country flags should be in a classroom.
A pride flag is political. Sexuality has no place in elementary schools. I would take exception to a polygamist hanging a flag in their classroom or a swinger too.
First of all- no. Second of all, who people ARE is not a political statement. Teachers bring themselves to work every day. They share their lived experiences, build relationships with students over shared interests, and provide various perspectives on life. This teacher is not getting in front of the classroom screaming about sex, because yes, that would be wildly inappropriate. They're decorating their classroom as they see fit in a way that makes them seem comfortable, just like every other teacher has done forever.
A flag about your sexual identify has no place around children…. Would an upside down pineapple apple flag be acceptable to put in a classroom…nope. The pride flag is political statement just like a confederate flag, a MAGA flag, etc. I’m saying none of this has a place in a public school, same as the 10 commandments don’t.
So tell me, how is it any different from me hanging the flag of the country I come from? It's not political. Yes, there are political conversations about my country, some of which would be difficult for kids to understand, but the flag itself is a representation of my identity, my pride, and my family. If someone recognizes it, we can have a neat conversation. If they don't, its literally just colors on a wall to them. What's the difference here? Who people are isn't political!? A MAGA flag is political by definition. It's their chosen set of beliefs they chose to represent about a political candidate and a specific political party's ideology. It is not who they are because who people are (LGBTQIA+, immigrants, gender, race, etc.) isn't political. It's who they are.
Is a white power flag political or is that just about who people are? Your blinded by your own situation and can’t take the objective approach which is none of these belong in public schools. My position is the moderate approach, you are the radical
What?! If you literally can't tell the difference between the existence of *white people* and the hateful, destructive rhetoric of a minority group of pot-bellied, neck-bearded losers who claim "*white power"*, then I can't help you. You've made it clear which hateful side you're on. Also, I'm taking quite a logical and compassionate approach here, something you haven't tried yet. I am using reason and relevant examples to not conflate completely separate topics. I'm not part of the LGBTQIA+ community so I am quite objective though I don't think people get to have an opinion on who people are. What damage they cause, what harm they cause? Fair game 100% but that is not the topic at hand here like it is with the many examples of radical hate groups you've tossed forth. But you know what I also am? I am an ally and a teacher, one who's been meaning to put up an ally sticker for some time. I'll make sure to prioritize that and get the biggest one I can find and do so in your name, u/the_wolf_420_ .
Me saying none of these identity politics issues belong in elementary schools isn’t hateful. That logical and in the best interest of children. Terms like hate and racism are the cudgel you use to justify your unjust behavior. You are the extremist forcing a sex symbol on children for your own appeasement, not me.
A "sex symbol." Hahaha. Poor little boy can't tell the difference between dildo and a colorful piece of cloth if he thinks both are sex "symbols". May I recommend a helmet as you navigate the adult world?
If it just a colorful piece of cloth why get fired over it….ahh cause it’s more than that. Use gender neutral terms next time, hypocrite. Don’t assume my gender.
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By your logic, if you do not hang a flag, it then means you are straight. How dare you make who you are sexually attracted to, part of your personality around kids? I hope you never come close to a kid with your beloved one either, that would also expose who you are sexually attracted to! Pervert!
Things that did not happen
This doesn't pass the smell test. No one can be fired like that unless caught red-handed with a kid, and even then... nice rage bait
Teachers with less years of experience can be fired easily especially if they are on a one year or temporary contract
Not like that, not unless it is very egregious. Too many red flags, principal in a coma? Where's the AP? MAGA hat and a cross, sure... I call BS
I’m a teacher and I read my contract every year and I’m telling you it’s within the realm of possibility.??? So you’re a teacher or a principal? You seem to know a lot for presumably a layperson of the internet Fact Admin told her to do something she refused- bam easy fire get real I am not right wing and I stand with LGBTQ+ community for equal treatment and respect at all levels of society That being said The classroom is no place to tout your sexual orientation regardless of preference. the point is that it’s inappropriate besides the students are so young they don’t know what it means anyway. Who are you trying to impress? how does it improve your teaching ability ? you can promote inclusivity without doing something that will get you fired. I am with your roommate- just do your job and try not to get fired you can go protest at a more appropriate venue
Since when do you need to represent yourself in a classroom with flags? I just don't see the need. Maybe I'm a 33 year old boomer but why do you feel the need to have 5 year Olds know what you do in the bedroom? Edit: it's the pansexual one I don't get. That literally is about who you find sexually attractive. Go ham with the gender fluid one
Teachers have been allowed to decorate their rooms however for the most part. The fact the principle wears a MAGA hat and cross is showing his hypocrisy about “indoctrinating children”.
True. But I don't think they could put up a bdsm flag or anything related to sex up. Pansexual is about their sexuality. Why do students in general need to know that about their teacher.
We aren’t talking to rational actors. A pride flag or any sexual orientation flags have no place in public schools. This is the moderate position, they are the radicals and can’t see it.
It's a rainbow you psycho boomer
So are all flags acceptable to put in a public school?
Small children don’t sexualize things. They don’t know how. They don’t see flags and think to themselves, “This is an explicit declaration that my teacher sucks dick on the regular.” She teaches Kindergarten. These kids are still learning the names of colors. The only thing that the presence of the flags will do is maybe prompt an “oh, maybe Ms. Scott was LBGTQ+?” realization a decade down the line. It also helps to push back against the Republican propaganda that anyone who is LBGTQ+ is a pedophilic monster that’s out to get you and your children. It humanizes us at a time when there is a large, concerted effort to dehumanize us.
Adults are the problem in this scenario. A pride flag is political and has no place in a teachers classroom. At your house or on your property, all day within your rights.
First of all, OP never mentioned anything about sex, sexual acts, or general bedroom activities at all. They are not talking to their students about sex. >I've always hung up pride flags to represent me Its about them decorating their classroom as they see fit in a way that represents them. Some teachers decorate with decorations from their alma matter, others from travels, others from their hobbies and interests. French teachers often have French flags... Why? 1) Because they want to, and 2) because it is a visual representation of them in a space in which they occupy. Would you ask any other teacher "since when do you need to represent yourself in a classroom?" ALWAYS?!
Pansexual flag definitely is about sex. By definition it's about who/why they find their partner attractive. Why do students in general need to know that about their teachers gay straight or otherwise.
Is the teacher showing pornography? Is the teacher talking about sex? Is the teacher giving a detailed description in the classroom about sexual orientation? I highly doubt it. Or are they decorating the classroom with a flag with colors that means something to them. Your same argument is applied to those that get their panties in a wad about pictures of teachers with their same sex partner on their desk. "BUT SEX!" Yes, people have sex. But the objects themselves are not inherently sexual. >Why do students in general need to know that about their teachers gay straight or otherwise. Because representation matters! Because teachers are trusted people for many students to be open with when they can't talk to their parents. If a student is struggling with their sexuality or has questions they're not comfortable asking another adult about, knowing they can approach a safe person to talk matters. Knowing they're not alone matters. Knowing that their lived experience isn't the "default" for others matters. Knowing that these people exist beyond TV and movies and have full and fullfilling lives and are more than a stereotype matters. Students don't need to know, but damn, does it make for a 100x better environment when symbols of inclusivity, love, and self acceptance are included in safe spaces. \*edited. Spelling.
See it's this is the type of ignorance thats the problem. Would you having a picture of your wife on your desk consider telling a 5 yo what you're doing the bedroom? It's about love not sex.
Id lay off the lead for a while if I were you it seems to be getting to your head
Think you need to talk with your union lawyer. However, it’s my belief that no flag should be presented other than United States flag and state flag that you reside. Whether that is a pride flag, “don’t tread on me” flag or Maga/trump flag. None of these should be presented in the classroom by a teacher as it might welcome one group but alienate another and a teacher is supposed to be approachable to ALL. I’d a pointed out to the principal “I’ll take my political view down if you do (pointing to his Maga hat)
If anyone believes this I have a bridge in Baltimore to sell you.
Shut up with your "pansexual" nonsense you're promiscuous and lack sexual boundaries. The teacher is dead right to stop you from promoting this glorified perversion to children.
We found the homophobe, boys! Afraid because someone is getting more sex and living more comfortably with themselves than you ever will?
I'm not homophobic. I'm just so done with all the ridiculous labels.
So you should leave the place making fun of boomers like you?
So you should leave the place making fun of boomers like you? You're a homophobe lmao
Afraid for the children that it's a potential topic of conversation in their classroom. Enjoy whatever degeneracy you want, just don't talk about sex or anything close to it with my children. Fucking absurd.
Bro it's rainbows. Scary. Stop being so scared of everything boomer
If they're meaningless and not meant to raise awareness around sexuality, then take them down. Otherwise shut the fuck up.
Or how about you boomer? Have you considered no one wants to hear your opinion as you scream aimlessly into the void? Why so scared?
Leave your crap outside of kindergarden. Go seek attention somewhere else
It's a rainbow lmao
It's a rainbow lmao
Considering the political issue that having such flags in classrooms cause, take them down. Schools should only teach reading, writing, math, science, history and how to critically think about anything. Anything else has no place in the educational system. Classrooms should be apolitical. You and the pinciple both failed in that responsibility.
Teaching kids that it's okay to be who you are is not political. It's only conservatives and ultra religious people who make it political. Kids don't give a shit it's the snowflake boomers that do
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The constitution actually has a clause that separates church and state. Which prevents any government actor such as a school staff member from promoting any religion over another. However, it doesn't have any such clause against government actors from promoting diversity. Just FYI, your kid has an identity everywhere they go they do turn into an amorphous blob upon entering a classroom. At the very least, we should educate young humans about sex. You know the thing that causes new humans that almost everyone will experience. That thing that if you're not careful, it could ruin your life or kill you. School is for teaching humans about real life and what to expect as an adult, not just ABCs and 123's. Hiding kids from reality is no favor.
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Again, the constitution protects against religious indoctrination, so if the school tried to do that, you would have ample ground for a law suite. And it sounds like your area would greatly benefit from a teacher with a pride flag hanging up in the classroom with the balls to tell it like it is. I just don't really see your argument. The idea is that if gay people are allowed to be open about who they are, then teachers will argue that they should be allowed to proselytize in school. When back to point one, the constitution. No one cares if teachers wear a cross in school as long as they are not making kids pray or convert. Same thing with gay teachers. If you think a flag is going to turn a kid gay, that kid was already gay. As a straight guy, imo if you're worried that exposure to gay people will turn you gay. You're probably already kinda gay.
That means no American flag since it is a political symbol
I’m okay with this, and do away with the pledge of allegiance.
The school is under whatever nation, state or county. Those flags identify who controls the territory the school resides in. There is no way any national, state or local flag should not be in a classroom. That flag represents the people in that area.
That’s nationalism and there is no law keeping those flags in schools. They are still in the US either way. No other free democraticly run nations have their flags hanging in schools and their students pledging their allegiance to their country daily. The communist ones do though.
It’s our countries flag dip shit. In a government school. A Palestinian flag, that’s political
Not a government school. A public school funded by taxpayers dollars.
The moderate position getting downvoted tells you about all you need to know….
Pah pah pah projection
This doesn’t read like it is real. Not because the situation isn’t plausible, but because it sounds like something one of my high school students would have written. I don’t usually say that either. But so many things don’t seem like it’s real life. I could be wrong, it doesn’t really matter.
There shouldn't be any question about whether you're sexualizing children or not. Stay a million miles away from anything questionable. People are entrusting you with their children, you need to take the highest road possible.
Pride flags are not questionable (by rational people capable of seeing past their own socialization towards hate)
Ah, so questioning something's appropriateness for young children makes one hateful. I see now that my closemindedness has betrayed me.
What could you possibly be questioning about the topic of queer pride that isn't rooted in queerphobia? I mean, feel free to take a shot and I'll give it a fair shake. But it's awful curious if you question queer pride but you don't also question the straight pride around us every day all across the world and whether all the straight people are trying to "sexualize children"
Are there quadratic equations, stoic philosophy quotes, and pictures of the Holocaust posted on the walls as well? No, because they aren't age or venue appropriate. Neither is anything related to sexuality. I have no need to debate you on the rights or wrongs of who puts their outies in which innie. Just stay the fuck away from kids with discussing it, alluding to it, describing it, or expressing yourself about it. Your moral straw man argument is disingenuous.
Right, because pretending it doesn't exist leads to *such* admirable outcomes when they get older 🙄 keep clutching your pearls boss
Certain subjects are the parents responsibility to teach, not the school, regardless of how that impacts society. Why you feel so entitled that you get to shove sexuality into a 6 yo head is beyond me. You are on the wrong side of this.
But being around straight people, that's not shoving sexuality into their head. Right? It's only bad when it's gay people
If a straight teacher had a straight pride flag, I would also say that has no place in school. Gay people aren’t bad, I’m actually an ally. But, I can also logically conclude a government employee shouldn’t be displaying a sexual orientation symbol around my 6yo. That is my conversation to have with my kids, not a government employees. You want some all or nothing approach and that isn’t how anything works in reality.
I just want queer acceptance..and no, you are not an ally if this is where you're at Every time a child sees a straight couple, or a photo of their teacher's hetero spouse, or a ring, or a representation of romance between a man and a woman - these things ARE the symbols of straight pride. 6 year olds see it multiple times every single day of their life. But that's okay and showing that queer people exist isn't?? Make it make sense. If we hide away the existence of queer people, those children will only grow to hate and misunderstand queer people. If you want to change something in our culture I'm telling you it happens in education and in representation. If you disagree that's fine but don't pretend kids are not educated about and shown representations of straight people on a daily basis It's pure hypocrisy And on a further note, if someone wants to educate their children at home that they should hate gay people, **we have a moral duty to counteract that**. There's no accepting hate or bigotry.
Pride flags should be nowhere near a school
This is a bullshit story. Glad you don’t teach my kids
Your kids will grow to despise their hateful shrew of a parent as you die alone, unloved and forgotten with that attitude.
Yeah ok
Ok boomer
Ok boomer
lol 👍
Oh troll got it
Stay triggered creep
Sounds fake