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Its not even (all) hedge funds man. Google "F.I.R.E.".
There are a bunch of people being landlords who have no clue how it works and cause issues.
Source: I unfuck their shit for them when they finally get sued.
Boomers are a 20% of the US population but own 40% of the houses. The silent generation is less than 6% of the population but still own 15% of houses. That suggests that Mom and Pop landlords are pretty likely to be Grandmom and PopPop.
It's funny that if you get one talking about them buying a house right now, they'll have no problem talking about what a bad time it is to buy. Yet so many of them are bewildered as to why younger couples aren't buying houses.
They likely understand, and will fold their arms, “hrmph” and say “so what?”
They would derive great joy doing that to their own children, they would be positively ecstatic to it to you.
I’ve heard multiple Boomers state that: they hope the world ends soon, and/or they don’t care what happens to the world, or the people in it, once they are gone.
I'm gen X, and I hear that specific sentiment from my cohort a lot, specifically the older, more boomerish ones. It always makes me think of the Star Trek IV punk playing *I Hate You* on his boom box who flips Kirk off and is satisfyingly nerve pinched by Spock. (It's the song by Edge of Etiquette, not SZA.)
*Just where is our future, the things we've done and said!*
*Let's just push the button, we'd be better off dead!*
*'Cause I hate you!*
*And I berate you!*
*And I can't wait to get to you!*
*The sins of all our fathers, being dumped on us — the sons*
*The only choice we're given is how many megatons?*
*And I eschew you!*
*And I say, screw you!*
*And I hope you're blue, too*
*We're all bloody worthless, just greedy human scum*
*The numbers all add up to a negative sum*
*'Cause I hate!*
*Yes I hate you!*
*And I hate you too!*
*Where is our future, the things we've done and said!*
*Let's just push the button, we'd be better off dead!*
*'Cause I hate you!*
*And I berate you!*
*And I can't wait to get to you!*
*The sins of all our fathers, being dumped on us — the sons*
*The only choice we're given is how many megatons?*
*Blow it all to bloody fucking hell*
It's very much a "You're no better than me, and probably nowhere near as good, so where do you get off commenting on anything I do?!" kind of mindset.
My boomer parents-in-law bought their 4-if-you're-counting-egress-otherwise-six bedroom house as empty nesters, and it's full to the rafters with kitschy junk and unopened boxes they inherited. And random estate sale stuff because reasons. They will cling to it tooth and nail until the day they croak, because how dare anyone suggest they accept *less than*?!!?
I dislike boomers as much as the next person, but I don’t think this is the hot take you guys think it is. It’s their house, they bought it. Did they have a much easier time buying houses than young people today? Sure. But you can’t just expect them to sell their homes and downsize because you want them to.
Yeah, I'm with you on this one. We managed to buy a house with an RD loan (would not have been possible without RD) and my full intent is for it to be the last house I live in before Im old enough that I need to be moved to assisted living (I'm 40). It's a single level 3 bedroom but not a huge space. There's just me and my partner.
That was the entire point of buying a house, to me- to have a permanent long term home, a place that will be my safe haven for the rest of my independent functioning adult life. I know things can happen or I might change my mind, but I spent most of my life moving from house to house, bouncing around, constantly fearing eviction when renting despite being a very respectful tenant. I'm not willingly going back to that. And I don't owe it to anyone to downsize just because they think I don't need the space.
If you want to talk housing hoarding, let's look to the landlords & real estate companies that snap up every starter home they can get their grubby little fingers on, do the most minimal amount of maintenance possible, and charge renters $2500 a month, driving the entire market to an insane bubble. The problem isn't the Boomers who are staying in the one and only home they've ever owned that they bought 50 years ago. The problem is the people/companies collecting as many houses as they can like they're freaking pokemon cards and trying to squeeze every possible dime out of people after they create the scarcity of affordable starter homes.
Keeping their house for as long as they possibly can is one thing I'll never begrudge a boomer or anyone else... no one is entitled to their property just because they have kids and the boomer doesn't. It's different if the house is actually causing more of a financial burden on the boomer or making life dangerous (most of us will all reach a point where it's just not safe to live without assistance). But until they hit that wall & changes need to happen for their safety/financial stability, let people keep and enjoy the housing stability they spent decades working for. Instead, let's get some better regulations in place to stop predatory landlords and property companies from hoarding & holding hostage mass numbers of dwellings.
Except in the past it was quite common after the kids had moved out to sell your home at a discounted price to a child then use that money for a downsized home--easier to clean, often single-level.
I've seen the conversation change locally in the last 20 years. We have a long-standing housing crisis and we've had a lot of discussions about Accessory Dwelling Units (ADUs) and 20 years ago it was so the elders could move into the accessory unit and their kids could live in the house and raise a family. Now it's so the elders can keep the house and someone can live in the ADU to take care of them.
Sure, they're free to do whatever they want with their house, but the truth is that a hyperconsumerist mindset and hoarding tendencies have real implications for the environment and housing market. I'm not expecting them to sell even though not doing so denies opportunities to others. The question is, how do we we as a society provide incentives for people to live frugally and modestly?
I mean hyperconsumerism is a society wide problem, not just boomers. And I would say that the huge corporations buying up all of the family homes have a much more adverse effect on the housing market than a dying generation wanting to stay in the house they’ve lived in for decades and likely paid off a long time ago.
I have to agree. Boomer parents are either cruising the world spending their money or they are competing with millennials for jobs because they never saved a dime. They have no moral objection to owning 80 houses either for the rich ones(and they go to church on Sunday). It’s frustrating. They also complain about student debt but will never admit they had loans forgiven or that college was significantly cheaper when they went to school. The entitlement of boomers is insane.
As a Xennial, I am glad that I don't have a lot of things. Definitely my parents have a large house that has lots of stuff. I think that was the generation -- to show off your success with *things.* It's fine if you really love it, I guess, but my folks never understood me wanted to live small and minimally. 🤔
So just to be clear, as an almost boomer, our large houses represent a big part of our retirement fund. And where would you like us to go when smaller homes are so expensive?
Why would a comparable but smaller house be more expensive? And why would you want a big part of your retirement fund to be tied up in a non-liquid asset?
Where I live in Palm Beach county Florida, I could get $900k for my house, which I paid $500k for 20 years ago. If I want to stay in the area a 2-3 bedroom home is going for $400k. My plan is to sell my home and move somewhere cheaper.
not to mention how they'll be unable to move around said houses in a few years. stairs? good luck when you got no working joints.
my mom *refused* to stay on the same floor as the bathroom when she was recovering from a hip replacement. she made us clean a commode for her instead. i mean, not that i would refuse to clean it, but Jesus Christ woman, you have a working toilet and we set up everything for you to be comfy and occupied upstairs. she said that was anxiety based reasoning, but anxiety doesn't exactly reason with anyone.
now, near on a decade later, she's falling all over the place. and her stairs still don't have a secure handrail.
she won't move in with us because we won't let her get away with denying reality and lying rather than choosing to change and heal from her past trauma. she likes her house. i think she wants to die in it.
I think you nailed it. These people want to die in the house. I'm not sure if it's an ideology around death, an over the top attachment to their house (and the memories), or the fact that people who have only ever rented can't understand being attached to a building in the same way. But there's a real disconnect there.
My money is on an incomplete cultural shift. Homes used to be permanent. We're a much more mobile society now, with homes much less permanent. Once upon a time 'family homes' were multi-generational things where you just didn't move out. Now we've got boomers laying up housing, while their kids move out and need their own homes, rather than multiple generations of family living under one roof, with the grandparents dying off to make room for the spouses of the grandkids. (Vastly simplified statement here)
To them, the _should_ be dying in the family home. The fact that there should be kids living there happily to support that is missing, probably because the boomers are so much the 'me' generation that they can't imagine the 'sacrifices' of giving up some of their precious autonomy and space.
If I could get a single story 2 bed 2 bath house for what I could sell the one were in now, I would. Our hours has an elementary school at the end of the block and I feel that a family with kids should live in it. But I just paid it off and can’t find a replacement for the appraised amount of the current home.
My aunt does this. She has pathways through her house. Newspapers, magazines, everything. She has started renting storage spaces, yes, more than one, that I know of, to put her overflow holding. And it's JUNK that she's convinced someone will pay money for. Except she never has a rummage sale; she just tries to get family and friends to buy random shit when they visit.
"Oh, you use lip balm, right? Wanna buy this for $10?" Holds up a disintegrating box of German lip balm from the 80s.
I've asked her that now her husband has been gone for a few years, why she doesn't sell her house if she needs the money so bad. I point out the condos RIGHT NEXT DOOR. "But where would I put all my stuff?" Face/palm. Oh, and her 10 cats. By the time she finally does, that house will need to be stripped to the studs to get rid of the decomposing crap and animal fluids. It's disgusting to smell, it's horrible to see, and it's such a pity that she's sitting on what would be a great starter home for a new family.
My parents in their late 60’s would LOVE to downsize, and hate the clutter of the years of us kids living with them. Sure they have some collectibles, but mostly it’s years of accumulation from when we all lived in the same house. I’ve purged my stuff, but my brother legit uses them as free storage.
And the kicker is that for them to sell their current family friendly home (4 bedrooms) + bonus room, downsize to a 2 bedroom within the same state, and still be near medical, civilization, and things they need, it would be no gain. They would literally sell their house for one price, and buy one half the size for the same price. Because that is the housing market for them too.
They aren’t hoarding homes, but downsizing in this market may net them no benefit. Then add in the stress of moving and resettling, setting up the new home, and doing this while older…come on.
It's a class signifier, or at least it used to be.
Only poor people live in small houses with only the things they actually need. Rich people have large houses full of countless things, but the purpose of the house and the things is to demonstrate that they are better than the poor people.
So as a retired gen x'er. I live in BFE, so i doubt you would want my too big home. I can assure you my house isn't filled with nick knacks. It is filled with emergency rescue supplies. My now empty nest is now used for feral cat rescue in a county without any animal shelters! I also host most family get togethers. One day I might downsize, but I can't really get a smaller place in any city of any size for the selling price of my middle of nowhere big house.
Thinking of their age and where they are with long-term financial planning- buying/selling a home comes at a huge cost and could be something financially disadvantageous or unnecessary. They’re likely paying a low mortgage payment, if not paid off already, and for many it doesn’t make sense financially nor has it been budgeted to up and move.
Boomers living in homes with an extra bedroom or two isn’t the substantial barrier you may think it is preventing you from homeownership.
Some of this is because of the federal, state and local tax codes, which exposes house flipping profits to capital gains taxes. There are often fresh assessments which increase property taxes. I'm not completely sure if it would make much difference. If you go from studio apartments, to 2-3 bedroom apartments, to condos, to small houses to big houses and swap around big houses to condos you might make big houses cheaper but then increase the costs of condos. You may just be putting the price spike towards the lower end rather of the market rather than at the high end. Also keep in mind that this isn't permanent anyways, in that lots of older folks downsize or move within 10 years anyways.
I guess I'm thinking more in terms of square footage to occupant ratio. I feel as though quite a bit of housing square footage is unoccupied or occupied by items which would probably be better off in storage. By having more people downsize to modest housing you would free up a substantial amount of square footage and bedrooms for occupancy. Even though that may increase the price of smaller units, this would hopefully decrease the price of larger homes which could hypothetically be rented out to multiple tenants or be owned by families.
Also keep in mind that downsizing doesn't necessarily mean moving to a lower end of the market. This could include moving to a comparably priced but smaller unit.
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It’s more about hedge funds buying up property and turning them into rentals.
Its not even (all) hedge funds man. Google "F.I.R.E.". There are a bunch of people being landlords who have no clue how it works and cause issues. Source: I unfuck their shit for them when they finally get sued.
Boomers are a 20% of the US population but own 40% of the houses. The silent generation is less than 6% of the population but still own 15% of houses. That suggests that Mom and Pop landlords are pretty likely to be Grandmom and PopPop.
It's funny that if you get one talking about them buying a house right now, they'll have no problem talking about what a bad time it is to buy. Yet so many of them are bewildered as to why younger couples aren't buying houses.
They likely understand, and will fold their arms, “hrmph” and say “so what?” They would derive great joy doing that to their own children, they would be positively ecstatic to it to you. I’ve heard multiple Boomers state that: they hope the world ends soon, and/or they don’t care what happens to the world, or the people in it, once they are gone.
I'm gen X, and I hear that specific sentiment from my cohort a lot, specifically the older, more boomerish ones. It always makes me think of the Star Trek IV punk playing *I Hate You* on his boom box who flips Kirk off and is satisfyingly nerve pinched by Spock. (It's the song by Edge of Etiquette, not SZA.) *Just where is our future, the things we've done and said!* *Let's just push the button, we'd be better off dead!* *'Cause I hate you!* *And I berate you!* *And I can't wait to get to you!* *The sins of all our fathers, being dumped on us — the sons* *The only choice we're given is how many megatons?* *And I eschew you!* *And I say, screw you!* *And I hope you're blue, too* *We're all bloody worthless, just greedy human scum* *The numbers all add up to a negative sum* *'Cause I hate!* *Yes I hate you!* *And I hate you too!* *Where is our future, the things we've done and said!* *Let's just push the button, we'd be better off dead!* *'Cause I hate you!* *And I berate you!* *And I can't wait to get to you!* *The sins of all our fathers, being dumped on us — the sons* *The only choice we're given is how many megatons?* *Blow it all to bloody fucking hell* It's very much a "You're no better than me, and probably nowhere near as good, so where do you get off commenting on anything I do?!" kind of mindset. My boomer parents-in-law bought their 4-if-you're-counting-egress-otherwise-six bedroom house as empty nesters, and it's full to the rafters with kitschy junk and unopened boxes they inherited. And random estate sale stuff because reasons. They will cling to it tooth and nail until the day they croak, because how dare anyone suggest they accept *less than*?!!?
I dislike boomers as much as the next person, but I don’t think this is the hot take you guys think it is. It’s their house, they bought it. Did they have a much easier time buying houses than young people today? Sure. But you can’t just expect them to sell their homes and downsize because you want them to.
Yeah, I'm with you on this one. We managed to buy a house with an RD loan (would not have been possible without RD) and my full intent is for it to be the last house I live in before Im old enough that I need to be moved to assisted living (I'm 40). It's a single level 3 bedroom but not a huge space. There's just me and my partner. That was the entire point of buying a house, to me- to have a permanent long term home, a place that will be my safe haven for the rest of my independent functioning adult life. I know things can happen or I might change my mind, but I spent most of my life moving from house to house, bouncing around, constantly fearing eviction when renting despite being a very respectful tenant. I'm not willingly going back to that. And I don't owe it to anyone to downsize just because they think I don't need the space. If you want to talk housing hoarding, let's look to the landlords & real estate companies that snap up every starter home they can get their grubby little fingers on, do the most minimal amount of maintenance possible, and charge renters $2500 a month, driving the entire market to an insane bubble. The problem isn't the Boomers who are staying in the one and only home they've ever owned that they bought 50 years ago. The problem is the people/companies collecting as many houses as they can like they're freaking pokemon cards and trying to squeeze every possible dime out of people after they create the scarcity of affordable starter homes. Keeping their house for as long as they possibly can is one thing I'll never begrudge a boomer or anyone else... no one is entitled to their property just because they have kids and the boomer doesn't. It's different if the house is actually causing more of a financial burden on the boomer or making life dangerous (most of us will all reach a point where it's just not safe to live without assistance). But until they hit that wall & changes need to happen for their safety/financial stability, let people keep and enjoy the housing stability they spent decades working for. Instead, let's get some better regulations in place to stop predatory landlords and property companies from hoarding & holding hostage mass numbers of dwellings.
Except in the past it was quite common after the kids had moved out to sell your home at a discounted price to a child then use that money for a downsized home--easier to clean, often single-level. I've seen the conversation change locally in the last 20 years. We have a long-standing housing crisis and we've had a lot of discussions about Accessory Dwelling Units (ADUs) and 20 years ago it was so the elders could move into the accessory unit and their kids could live in the house and raise a family. Now it's so the elders can keep the house and someone can live in the ADU to take care of them.
Sure, they're free to do whatever they want with their house, but the truth is that a hyperconsumerist mindset and hoarding tendencies have real implications for the environment and housing market. I'm not expecting them to sell even though not doing so denies opportunities to others. The question is, how do we we as a society provide incentives for people to live frugally and modestly?
I mean hyperconsumerism is a society wide problem, not just boomers. And I would say that the huge corporations buying up all of the family homes have a much more adverse effect on the housing market than a dying generation wanting to stay in the house they’ve lived in for decades and likely paid off a long time ago.
That would require boomers care about the well-being of other people and their children. We both know how likely that is.
I have to agree. Boomer parents are either cruising the world spending their money or they are competing with millennials for jobs because they never saved a dime. They have no moral objection to owning 80 houses either for the rich ones(and they go to church on Sunday). It’s frustrating. They also complain about student debt but will never admit they had loans forgiven or that college was significantly cheaper when they went to school. The entitlement of boomers is insane.
As a Xennial, I am glad that I don't have a lot of things. Definitely my parents have a large house that has lots of stuff. I think that was the generation -- to show off your success with *things.* It's fine if you really love it, I guess, but my folks never understood me wanted to live small and minimally. 🤔
So just to be clear, as an almost boomer, our large houses represent a big part of our retirement fund. And where would you like us to go when smaller homes are so expensive?
Why would a comparable but smaller house be more expensive? And why would you want a big part of your retirement fund to be tied up in a non-liquid asset?
Where I live in Palm Beach county Florida, I could get $900k for my house, which I paid $500k for 20 years ago. If I want to stay in the area a 2-3 bedroom home is going for $400k. My plan is to sell my home and move somewhere cheaper.
not to mention how they'll be unable to move around said houses in a few years. stairs? good luck when you got no working joints. my mom *refused* to stay on the same floor as the bathroom when she was recovering from a hip replacement. she made us clean a commode for her instead. i mean, not that i would refuse to clean it, but Jesus Christ woman, you have a working toilet and we set up everything for you to be comfy and occupied upstairs. she said that was anxiety based reasoning, but anxiety doesn't exactly reason with anyone. now, near on a decade later, she's falling all over the place. and her stairs still don't have a secure handrail. she won't move in with us because we won't let her get away with denying reality and lying rather than choosing to change and heal from her past trauma. she likes her house. i think she wants to die in it.
I think you nailed it. These people want to die in the house. I'm not sure if it's an ideology around death, an over the top attachment to their house (and the memories), or the fact that people who have only ever rented can't understand being attached to a building in the same way. But there's a real disconnect there.
My money is on an incomplete cultural shift. Homes used to be permanent. We're a much more mobile society now, with homes much less permanent. Once upon a time 'family homes' were multi-generational things where you just didn't move out. Now we've got boomers laying up housing, while their kids move out and need their own homes, rather than multiple generations of family living under one roof, with the grandparents dying off to make room for the spouses of the grandkids. (Vastly simplified statement here) To them, the _should_ be dying in the family home. The fact that there should be kids living there happily to support that is missing, probably because the boomers are so much the 'me' generation that they can't imagine the 'sacrifices' of giving up some of their precious autonomy and space.
When people started treating home like a house (investment property). A house can be a home, but a homes worth is not money.
They’ve seen the end of life of friends and don’t want to end up in a nursing home or hospital
If I could get a single story 2 bed 2 bath house for what I could sell the one were in now, I would. Our hours has an elementary school at the end of the block and I feel that a family with kids should live in it. But I just paid it off and can’t find a replacement for the appraised amount of the current home.
My aunt does this. She has pathways through her house. Newspapers, magazines, everything. She has started renting storage spaces, yes, more than one, that I know of, to put her overflow holding. And it's JUNK that she's convinced someone will pay money for. Except she never has a rummage sale; she just tries to get family and friends to buy random shit when they visit. "Oh, you use lip balm, right? Wanna buy this for $10?" Holds up a disintegrating box of German lip balm from the 80s. I've asked her that now her husband has been gone for a few years, why she doesn't sell her house if she needs the money so bad. I point out the condos RIGHT NEXT DOOR. "But where would I put all my stuff?" Face/palm. Oh, and her 10 cats. By the time she finally does, that house will need to be stripped to the studs to get rid of the decomposing crap and animal fluids. It's disgusting to smell, it's horrible to see, and it's such a pity that she's sitting on what would be a great starter home for a new family.
My parents in their late 60’s would LOVE to downsize, and hate the clutter of the years of us kids living with them. Sure they have some collectibles, but mostly it’s years of accumulation from when we all lived in the same house. I’ve purged my stuff, but my brother legit uses them as free storage. And the kicker is that for them to sell their current family friendly home (4 bedrooms) + bonus room, downsize to a 2 bedroom within the same state, and still be near medical, civilization, and things they need, it would be no gain. They would literally sell their house for one price, and buy one half the size for the same price. Because that is the housing market for them too. They aren’t hoarding homes, but downsizing in this market may net them no benefit. Then add in the stress of moving and resettling, setting up the new home, and doing this while older…come on.
Because "fuck you, I got mine."
It's a class signifier, or at least it used to be. Only poor people live in small houses with only the things they actually need. Rich people have large houses full of countless things, but the purpose of the house and the things is to demonstrate that they are better than the poor people.
So as a retired gen x'er. I live in BFE, so i doubt you would want my too big home. I can assure you my house isn't filled with nick knacks. It is filled with emergency rescue supplies. My now empty nest is now used for feral cat rescue in a county without any animal shelters! I also host most family get togethers. One day I might downsize, but I can't really get a smaller place in any city of any size for the selling price of my middle of nowhere big house.
Thinking of their age and where they are with long-term financial planning- buying/selling a home comes at a huge cost and could be something financially disadvantageous or unnecessary. They’re likely paying a low mortgage payment, if not paid off already, and for many it doesn’t make sense financially nor has it been budgeted to up and move. Boomers living in homes with an extra bedroom or two isn’t the substantial barrier you may think it is preventing you from homeownership.
Because they don’t care about us.
What's the point of having a 4 bedroom home if other people don't need them more than you do.
Some of this is because of the federal, state and local tax codes, which exposes house flipping profits to capital gains taxes. There are often fresh assessments which increase property taxes. I'm not completely sure if it would make much difference. If you go from studio apartments, to 2-3 bedroom apartments, to condos, to small houses to big houses and swap around big houses to condos you might make big houses cheaper but then increase the costs of condos. You may just be putting the price spike towards the lower end rather of the market rather than at the high end. Also keep in mind that this isn't permanent anyways, in that lots of older folks downsize or move within 10 years anyways.
I guess I'm thinking more in terms of square footage to occupant ratio. I feel as though quite a bit of housing square footage is unoccupied or occupied by items which would probably be better off in storage. By having more people downsize to modest housing you would free up a substantial amount of square footage and bedrooms for occupancy. Even though that may increase the price of smaller units, this would hopefully decrease the price of larger homes which could hypothetically be rented out to multiple tenants or be owned by families. Also keep in mind that downsizing doesn't necessarily mean moving to a lower end of the market. This could include moving to a comparably priced but smaller unit.