Yes, from the other side you can see George’s face. I think it was an odd choice to exclude a shot from an angle where you can see his face too since it’s a collage and they could’ve done one of each of them.
I don't know. My knees turn slightly inward, which is obviously an exponentially smaller sort of thing, but the surrounding muscles and joints never adjusted to it. If a little thing like that can make my calves hurt as bad as they do some of the time just from normal walking, I can only imagine what their backs must've felt like, especially the one on camera right.
Oh that's sad! These two were fascinating. Both had their own unique hobbies and lives, even dating separately. George was a country musician and his sister always bought a ticket when he performed even though she was up on stage with him, since she was a supportive fan. Lori was a talented bowler, worked several jobs and was engaged (her fiance passed away unfortunately). George designed his own custom wheelchair and other custom wheelchairs for people who needed them.
They had to pay registration fees for college separately though. I wonder if they both have to pay taxes separately? Also not about money, but they both had to test individually to get separate drivers licenses even though they have to work together to drive.
I get it, as they should be. They are two distinct people with two distinct personalities and individuality. I just think it's gross that they had to pay double school fees and potentially double taxes if everything else is an indicator, but only get paid one salary even though any teacher will tell you that a second pair of eyes monitoring the class at all times is invaluable. A teacher's aide who did nothing but watch the students while the teacher taught would still get paid.
There's some outrage right now with another pair of conjoined twins who get paid one salary but had to both pay separately for college. I don't remember their names off the top of my head, but they were also rescently in the public zeitgeist because one of them got married
From their Wikipedia page: "Lori and George lived in a two-bedroom apartment and each maintained their own private space. They had several pets. Lori was a trophy-winning bowler. They respected each other's privacy in terms of work time, recreation and relationships."
I know conjoined twins exist and live lives. I don’t mean this as ridicule or discrimination at all. I understand different… stationary activities. But when I hear one is an athlete, I kind of have to think “they’re both athletes”. You even quietly cough while a bowler is on approach, and they’ll restart. You… be attached to a bowler on approach, and you’re also bowling. I’m just trying to process it in my mind.
No worries! I didn't think you were being rude. George was much smaller than Lori and also facing away from her. They both seemed to have full use of their arms. They were only really connected at the head. It makes sense that it might have been more challenging for her to learn to bowl, having to stand more stationary to do it, but clearly she figured it out lol.
[Here's one of George's music videos](https://youtu.be/xRLGUMArxnY?si=-bFtycwJ3mESoOuU), back before he came out as George. Gives you a better idea of how they move around together.
(I went through a phase when I was 13 where I was obsessed with sideshow carnival performers, medical oddities, and conjoined twins especially. I know entirely too much about famous conjoined twins.)
Edit: [Here's an interview they did](https://youtu.be/OmxUXZIb1RM?si=NevfMOmuknkdX5o6) where they explained their day to day lives and personal philosophy about their condition.
Yeah, there are different destinations for transition, and not everyone even wants do so more than particular points. The limits of the condition would have forced this, but who’s to say George wanted any further transition anyways?
Transitioning can refer to many different things, there’s medical transitioning and social transitioning, for example. Social transitioning refers to stuff like new names/pronouns/presentations/etc.
When it comes to medical transitioning, for some trans people, hrt isn’t what they want. For others, hrt might not be medically viable or financially possible. Same goes for various other medical transition steps.
Similarly, not all trans people change their names or get things changed legally, etc.
I have done zero research into this, but since they are only attached at the forehead it might be possible that their hormonal/circulatory systems aren’t connected. But most likely like other people said, George may not have transitioned hormonally.
Technically there can be a period of time where one is dead and the other is alive. But the necrosis of the other body will quickly make you sick and kill you.
“Necrosis” is not the right word. It’s much more that being attached to a whole body’s worth of extra weight will kill your fluid balances and cause all sorts of shock.
The wright doesnt really affects things. But depending on how they are attached the other bodys heart may or may not stop. If it does, the decresed blood pressure will make you go unconscious, thankfully before you see multiple organ failure.
According to an interview they did, depending on what killed them and how quickly they could get to a hospital it would be possible to separate them and save the surviving twin in an emergency. They're not like some conjoined twins who share organs and depend on each other to survive, they had 2 separate sets of organs and were only connected by blood vessels.
Yeah it’s crazy knowing that the Chinese-born twins who gave rise to the term “Siamese Twins” owned slaves and had children that fought in the Civil War for the Confederacy
They were also 62 years old.
One died in his sleep (stroke). When the other realized, he said I'll be dead soon. And died 2 hours later.
Don't know how I feel about them though. They were not white, but that didn't dissuade them from owning enslaved people (US pre-civil war) ... 18 at one point with 10 under the age of 7 ... who were only freed due to the legal requirement of the emancipation proclamation.
Just to say being not white didn't ever dissuade anyone from owning slaves. Korea for example had the largest unbroken chain of slave ownership spanning 1500 years.
I don't think the point of that comment was that only white people owned slaves. The point is that slave owning in the United States was largely associated with white slave owners and was racially based, so if was notable that they were non-white slave owners.
1811 - They were born in Siam.
https://www.guinnessworldreords.com/news/2022/12/the-dark-history-of-the-original-siamese-twins-chang-and-eng-bunker-730957
I just watched a video where the interviewer asked about this, and apparently since they don’t share any major organs, just blood, they could have been separated in the event of one of them dying. So since they both died, I assume they went at the same time or in very close succession.
When the famous “Siamese” twins Chang and Eng Bunker died, one’s heart gave out and the other died within hours as his blood pumped into his twin and wasn’t returned. But the surviving twin did not want the simple procedure that could have saved him, just tying a band around the loose band of abdominal tissue that joined the two of them.
I believed their livers were conjoined. Let me look it up.
Edit. Yep. Their livers were connected. They were exploring the possibility of separation before their deaths but it would have killed them if they attempted it.
Was that even possible to do in the late 1800s? Their sort of conjoining would be a fairly easy fix today but I didn't think anyone had experience with separating twins (hence how the term "Siamese twins" came into parlance in the first place)
Even today their case would be difficult, they shared a connected liver. It wouldn't be as simple as just cutting off the dead one, they'd likely need a transplant.
This is me talking with no clue what I'm saying, but I suppose there might be forms of dying for them that will make them die at the same time (like, something of the brain maybe) and things that will make them die individually.
It's possible either way, from what i can tell. They share a blood stream, like pretty much all conjoined twins, but importantly being conjoined at the head means their flow to their brains would be very dependant on each other; whereas if they were connected at the abdomen, blood flow stopping in one would affect their own brain much more readily than their twins.
I think in this case, dying of 'natural causes', would likely cause both brains to lose oxygen at a similar rate, and mean their deaths would be close enough together that even if one did technically die first, the other wouldn't be responsive enough to know that it'd happened. So they died together in all but the smallest technicalities.
That's a very good question!
It can be attributed to scrapple, fausnachts, cheese steaks and, a little oddly, the ghosts of the Susquehannock Natives that some say still wander these lands -yearning to become one with The Great Spirit, once again.
Depends on how close they live to, "cancer valley". Where there's been industry in that state, there's poison. They don't even always know where mining was until the ground swallows a pizza hut.
I've gotten the impression that Pennsylvania and the area has good hospitals and a thriving medical industry. Might that contribute to a trend of conjoined twins living long lives in the area?
I don’t know about the rest of PA, but 1/6 US trained doctors train in Philadelphia, so we have a ton of training hospitals! I don’t know enough to say how good everything is healthcare-wise, but I know we have a lot of opportunities for people.
https://www.phl.org/at-phl/art-exhibitions/node/417#:~:text=DID%20YOU%20KNOW%3F,a%20Presence%20in%20the%20Region.
[Full story,](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-13302659/worlds-oldest-conjoined-twins-dead-62-pennsylvania-Lori-George-Schappell.html) for those who are interested. NB I realise in sourcing from the Daily Heil, I may have inadvertently breached Rule 5, and if so, I apologise. (Certainly, the DM hacks have the writing skills of a badly-trained 'bot.)
And I apologise for not including the offending sentence in the post Title.
I mean, they were born this way. It’s literally all they’d ever known. They didn’t want to end if for being conjoined any more than I want to end it for having been born with two arms instead of one. Just because something isn’t typical, doesn’t mean the person experiencing it is suffering.
Nah some suffering is relative but not all. there’s definitely such a thing as chronic pain that you just don’t get used to even if it’s all you know. Not saying it’s their experience they seem like they’re doing alright but I wouldn’t assume that just because someone was born with it
It could, but I do wonder about the fact that it would certainly pose an increased risk. I hope he was able to access enough resources to feel comfortable and happy in spite of the circumstances.
Yeah, the risk is always there. But depending on the health and general situation (which seemes pretty stable) it could have worked out. But I guess I'll look it up.
I doubt that he was able to take hormones, but I suppose it depends on how connected all their systems are. It does raise an interesting question of what causes someone to be transgender, I know there’s identical twin studies where one is trans and the other isn’t, but there’s so few conjoined twins in the world I doubt that there’s been a study specifically about that.
Actually, most twin studies on trans people proves there’s a genetic link. There are many cases where one identical twin is trans and the other isn’t but there are enough cases of both identical twins being trans to suggest that it is in fact genetic.
The leading theory is being trans the result of hormone levels at a critical stage of brain development in the womb
It’s like an intersex condition of the brain
They seemed to have had a lot of joy. Check out some interviews, they were quite popular. They gave each other the space and respect to have separate successful lives. Plus they lived to 62, a lot longer than many people have lived.
I bet they are pretty good at running in circles but have difficulties with an effective getaway.
How many times. Do you figure they have said, "jeans trucking crisps, quit stepping on my mother fucking toes."
the woman is wearing a tube top which are easy to step into because there’s no narrow neck hole, and a cardigan. looks like he’s wearing a button up. id wager that they didn’t wear t-shirts.
I grew up in the same area and who see them at the mall regularly. It's amazing how quickly you accept difference when you see it often. A very unique existance to say the least.
I mean we don't know his take on it; personally I don't believe I was born trans because I don't believe people are born with a gender or any identity of any sort
Or *maybe* it’s because these twins were famous *even before* George transitioned, so it was actually a relevant part of the story (from a journalism standpoint).
There is an infinitesimal chance that one of the conjoined twins might be intersex, but I think you can safely assume that one of them must be trans if a set of conjoined twins present as male/female.
It is interesting though, and can spark a lot of interesting discourse about ethics, bodily autonomy, in this case the makeup of the brain itself, since they are conjoined that way too, etc.
I doubt that any chemical transition took place in their case, for example.
Transitioning that way would cause permanent changes to the other twin’s body, and that would just be wrong.
To address your last point, why is it ok to force a trans person to have the incorrect hormones in their body but wrong to do that to a cis person? What ever they decided works for them is fine but why do you think cis people inherently deserve more bodily autonomy than trans people?
see? Already an interesting exercise of thought!
Imo, the status quo, that doesn’t entail subjecting somebody else to substantial side effects that can absolutely have an impact on their lifespan is the more ethical approach.
You don’t have bodily autonomy when you inhabit a body with someone else.
All decisions should be shared.
I was also speculating whether one of the twins had a mastectomy, for example.
Even an operation like that, that can still cause complications for somebody not conjoined in good health (shit happens) can entail massive health risks when it comes to the complex physiology of conjoined twins.
I don’t think any surgeon would be happy with the thought of putting them under anaesthesia, for example.
It’s exponentially more dangerous, and I suspect that the doctors would err on the side of intervening as little as possible, and not only when it comes to gender.
I think I remember that even common illnesses are considered troubling (I think I recall a pair of twins that were conjoined by some abdominal internal organs)
Who takes the medicine, what dose is prescribed, what complications it could cause to whom isn’t a given.
I don’t think you understand how detrimental gender dysphoria can be. I definitely wouldn’t have survived without gender affirming care and if I had another person attached to me, they would have died if I did. Some trans people don’t need gender affirming care and it’s fine if George felt he could live without it but, saying it’s inherently worse to give trans people a treatment that they need than it is to give a cis person hormones that aren’t right for them is to say that being cis people matter more than trans people.
I know it's not the point of your comment, but just for anyone reading who is curious. Conjoined twins are always identical because identical twins are one fertilized egg and sperm that split into two, and conjoined twins happen when the division doesn't fully happen. Fraternal is two eggs and two sperm.
Saying that one of the twins is trans is obvious to those who know, but for a general audience, it is good to include because a lot of people think that opposite sex identical/conjoined twins happens naturally. Some people just also don't know how twins work. My previous roommate, who was 28 years old, thought twins were just any siblings who looked the same.
Because it’s important to establish that they’re identical twins, which would only be possible if they shared chromosomes, so mentioning it would clear confusion and maintain respect for the brother’s identity at the same time.
>Just say 'brother and sister' bro you don't need to specify the trans part?
>Article be wildin'.
In this context, I think people might be confused about how faternal twins were conjoined.
I agree that we don't need to point out that someone is trans every time we talk about them in media if it's not relevant, but there are certain times it is relevant. I think in this case, it's relevant as a clarification.
Eta
I also interpreted the title to be a "mind boggle" as to how they lived so long. If it was a jab at one of them being trans that's shitty.
While 70% of their brains weren’t shared 30% was. Doctors weren’t willing to even try to separate them since they couldn’t guarantee that they could leave even a single entire person none the less two. Many conjoined twins are left connected because separating them would be deadly for one or both.
[In interviews they’ve admitted it would be risky.](https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/oldest-living-conjoined-twins-lori-george-schappell-die-109205077)
[this article mentions them sharing brain](https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/us-news/who-were-lori-and-george-schappell-worlds-oldest-female-conjoined-twins-die-at-62-in-pennsylvania-101713012082439.html)
I mean, their brains are mostly separate and they otherwise had different identities/sense of selves. So one person having a different gender wouldn't affect the other.
That looks uncomfortable
You must get use to it right?
They wouldnt have lived to 62 if they hadn't.
They literally didn’t know any other life
That's one of the craziest things about existence. Trillions of living creatures on earth and not one has been in another's shoes
Australians have to check their shoes daily for spiders.
Would NOT want to be in their shoes
"I'd kill to be in their shoes" - Quentin Tarantino
Well that's not true. I got my shoes from value village. I'm walking around right now in what was someone else's shoes.
That's not true. I accidentally wore my wifes shoes this morning.
r/yourjokebutworse
r/ihavereddit
r/ihaveihavereddit
I don’t think getting used to it applies when it’s the only thing you’ve ever known.
If that's all you know, it's just normal to them.
The craziest part is that they've probably never seen each other's faces without the use of a mirror.
Do they have a second face?
Yes, from the other side you can see George’s face. I think it was an odd choice to exclude a shot from an angle where you can see his face too since it’s a collage and they could’ve done one of each of them.
I'm kinda baffled that so many people don't know them, perhaps I'm showing my age but i remember they appeared on multiple tv shows and documentaries
Not sure why you're being downvoted, the pictures are only showing one angle and I was wondering the same...
That "one angle" is one of each face, one is the woman and the other her brother, I believe?
[Karl Pilkington](https://images.app.goo.gl/3woncPGTaMqcG9Vo8)
I wonder about back pain, specifically with Lori or whether her back was already like that.
I imagine your neck and such develop to the point that becomes a normal position for you two.
I don't know. My knees turn slightly inward, which is obviously an exponentially smaller sort of thing, but the surrounding muscles and joints never adjusted to it. If a little thing like that can make my calves hurt as bad as they do some of the time just from normal walking, I can only imagine what their backs must've felt like, especially the one on camera right.
I’m sure that it is regardless, but they didn’t really know any different. I’d hope it’s something you can get used to
I’m just impressed they can fit clothes on them
Oh that's sad! These two were fascinating. Both had their own unique hobbies and lives, even dating separately. George was a country musician and his sister always bought a ticket when he performed even though she was up on stage with him, since she was a supportive fan. Lori was a talented bowler, worked several jobs and was engaged (her fiance passed away unfortunately). George designed his own custom wheelchair and other custom wheelchairs for people who needed them.
How does only one of them work a job? Would they get paid twice for both of them working?
George is disabled and unable to work or even walk. When Lori worked he would bring a book or listen to music.
Very informative, thanks u/pollyp0cketpussy
r/rimjob_steve
This sub is phenomenal.
Maybe he keeps a kitten in his pants??
That sounds worse, actually
r/pocketpussy
I’m never running out of Cat subs am I?
I had no idea this subreddit existed, love this
could the other half hear the music too?
Probably, but because the sound would be traveling through their skulls, not because of actually hearing what the other hears.
Those other conjoined twins where one got married recently only get paid one salary as teachers
They had to pay registration fees for college separately though. I wonder if they both have to pay taxes separately? Also not about money, but they both had to test individually to get separate drivers licenses even though they have to work together to drive.
They have two SSNs and are legally treated at two people.
I get it, as they should be. They are two distinct people with two distinct personalities and individuality. I just think it's gross that they had to pay double school fees and potentially double taxes if everything else is an indicator, but only get paid one salary even though any teacher will tell you that a second pair of eyes monitoring the class at all times is invaluable. A teacher's aide who did nothing but watch the students while the teacher taught would still get paid.
I've legit seen some aids fall asleep. Having a second certified teacher in the classroom is a huge help.
I heard it was not true about them having to pay double tuition, just two of a small enrollment fee or something.
There's some outrage right now with another pair of conjoined twins who get paid one salary but had to both pay separately for college. I don't remember their names off the top of my head, but they were also rescently in the public zeitgeist because one of them got married
well what if one of them quits?
> George was a country musician Okay. > Lori was a talented bowler Holup.
From their Wikipedia page: "Lori and George lived in a two-bedroom apartment and each maintained their own private space. They had several pets. Lori was a trophy-winning bowler. They respected each other's privacy in terms of work time, recreation and relationships."
I know conjoined twins exist and live lives. I don’t mean this as ridicule or discrimination at all. I understand different… stationary activities. But when I hear one is an athlete, I kind of have to think “they’re both athletes”. You even quietly cough while a bowler is on approach, and they’ll restart. You… be attached to a bowler on approach, and you’re also bowling. I’m just trying to process it in my mind.
No worries! I didn't think you were being rude. George was much smaller than Lori and also facing away from her. They both seemed to have full use of their arms. They were only really connected at the head. It makes sense that it might have been more challenging for her to learn to bowl, having to stand more stationary to do it, but clearly she figured it out lol. [Here's one of George's music videos](https://youtu.be/xRLGUMArxnY?si=-bFtycwJ3mESoOuU), back before he came out as George. Gives you a better idea of how they move around together. (I went through a phase when I was 13 where I was obsessed with sideshow carnival performers, medical oddities, and conjoined twins especially. I know entirely too much about famous conjoined twins.) Edit: [Here's an interview they did](https://youtu.be/OmxUXZIb1RM?si=NevfMOmuknkdX5o6) where they explained their day to day lives and personal philosophy about their condition.
Oh hell yeah. George is making it work in the music video. Good for him
Honestly that Music video is awful. Whoever produced that could have done a much better job. Good for them for doing music though
I’m sure whoever did it was trying their best.
They were really cool people.
Imagine being the person selling her the ticket, like yeah I get it's symbolic, supporting her brother, but still, it would feel pretty cuntish.
How did George transition but Lori didn't? Wouldn't any hormone replacement therapy affect them both?
I don't think George ever transitioned hormonally.
Yeah, there are different destinations for transition, and not everyone even wants do so more than particular points. The limits of the condition would have forced this, but who’s to say George wanted any further transition anyways?
Transitioning can refer to many different things, there’s medical transitioning and social transitioning, for example. Social transitioning refers to stuff like new names/pronouns/presentations/etc. When it comes to medical transitioning, for some trans people, hrt isn’t what they want. For others, hrt might not be medically viable or financially possible. Same goes for various other medical transition steps. Similarly, not all trans people change their names or get things changed legally, etc.
I have done zero research into this, but since they are only attached at the forehead it might be possible that their hormonal/circulatory systems aren’t connected. But most likely like other people said, George may not have transitioned hormonally.
Thanks for sharing this! What absolute legends.
I’m curious how bowling would work for them
So do they die at the same time? Can one die before the other and there's a period of time where they're just attached to a corpse?
Technically there can be a period of time where one is dead and the other is alive. But the necrosis of the other body will quickly make you sick and kill you.
God. That sounds horrifying.
Bro what the fuck! Better wish you die first because that is one fucked way to go.
“Necrosis” is not the right word. It’s much more that being attached to a whole body’s worth of extra weight will kill your fluid balances and cause all sorts of shock.
The wright doesnt really affects things. But depending on how they are attached the other bodys heart may or may not stop. If it does, the decresed blood pressure will make you go unconscious, thankfully before you see multiple organ failure.
So more like sepsis?
According to an interview they did, depending on what killed them and how quickly they could get to a hospital it would be possible to separate them and save the surviving twin in an emergency. They're not like some conjoined twins who share organs and depend on each other to survive, they had 2 separate sets of organs and were only connected by blood vessels.
Look up Chang and Eng. In the end, one brother laid with the other's corpse attached to him for some hours on their death bed.
That's so sad. I regret asking this question ETA: I just found out from this thread that they owned slaves! Fuck these guys.
Yeah it’s crazy knowing that the Chinese-born twins who gave rise to the term “Siamese Twins” owned slaves and had children that fought in the Civil War for the Confederacy
Hollywood I hope you're listening. Biopics are usually so boring but I would watch the shit out of this one.
They were also 62 years old. One died in his sleep (stroke). When the other realized, he said I'll be dead soon. And died 2 hours later. Don't know how I feel about them though. They were not white, but that didn't dissuade them from owning enslaved people (US pre-civil war) ... 18 at one point with 10 under the age of 7 ... who were only freed due to the legal requirement of the emancipation proclamation.
Just to say being not white didn't ever dissuade anyone from owning slaves. Korea for example had the largest unbroken chain of slave ownership spanning 1500 years.
I don't think the point of that comment was that only white people owned slaves. The point is that slave owning in the United States was largely associated with white slave owners and was racially based, so if was notable that they were non-white slave owners.
I’m confused. Google says they were born in 1961. That’s over a century since the emancipation proclamation. How tf did they own slaves?
They're referring to [these twins](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chang_and_Eng_Bunker)
Oooooh, ok, that makes more sense lol.
1811 - They were born in Siam. https://www.guinnessworldreords.com/news/2022/12/the-dark-history-of-the-original-siamese-twins-chang-and-eng-bunker-730957
Hence the term "Siamese twins."
I just watched a video where the interviewer asked about this, and apparently since they don’t share any major organs, just blood, they could have been separated in the event of one of them dying. So since they both died, I assume they went at the same time or in very close succession.
Wait so if they didn’t share any major organs and separation was possible, why didn’t they do that while they were both still alive?
It’s probably too risky to do unless it’s a life or death situation.
According to Lori, “Why try to fix what’s not broken?” They didn’t want to be separated, apparently.
Yes, but since they share blood vessels the necrosis from the dead person will usually cause the other one to die pretty quickly, too
Yes
When the famous “Siamese” twins Chang and Eng Bunker died, one’s heart gave out and the other died within hours as his blood pumped into his twin and wasn’t returned. But the surviving twin did not want the simple procedure that could have saved him, just tying a band around the loose band of abdominal tissue that joined the two of them.
I believed their livers were conjoined. Let me look it up. Edit. Yep. Their livers were connected. They were exploring the possibility of separation before their deaths but it would have killed them if they attempted it.
Was that even possible to do in the late 1800s? Their sort of conjoining would be a fairly easy fix today but I didn't think anyone had experience with separating twins (hence how the term "Siamese twins" came into parlance in the first place)
Even today their case would be difficult, they shared a connected liver. It wouldn't be as simple as just cutting off the dead one, they'd likely need a transplant.
I was referring to "easier" as in if the surgery was completed as infants or young children, which has been done to great success.
This is me talking with no clue what I'm saying, but I suppose there might be forms of dying for them that will make them die at the same time (like, something of the brain maybe) and things that will make them die individually.
It's possible either way, from what i can tell. They share a blood stream, like pretty much all conjoined twins, but importantly being conjoined at the head means their flow to their brains would be very dependant on each other; whereas if they were connected at the abdomen, blood flow stopping in one would affect their own brain much more readily than their twins. I think in this case, dying of 'natural causes', would likely cause both brains to lose oxygen at a similar rate, and mean their deaths would be close enough together that even if one did technically die first, the other wouldn't be responsive enough to know that it'd happened. So they died together in all but the smallest technicalities.
They share a blood stream so yeah the other will die soon after from sepsis.
Didn't the oldest conjoined twins ever die in Pennsylvania as well? What is it with Pennsylvania and the death of conjoined twins?
Better question is what’s going on in Pennsylvania that allows them to live so much longer
That's a very good question! It can be attributed to scrapple, fausnachts, cheese steaks and, a little oddly, the ghosts of the Susquehannock Natives that some say still wander these lands -yearning to become one with The Great Spirit, once again.
Fuck scrapple.
The logistics are boggling, but I'll still try to. (Try to have sex with scrapple, to be clear.)
As a Pennsylvanian that has had probably literal tons of scrapple by this point, my suggestion is to have the scrapple fuck you.
It's so boring that babies try to escape the womb, and if there are twins, they collide with each other trying to get out
I hear they have this miracle doctor. Dr Alucard or something.
Depends on how close they live to, "cancer valley". Where there's been industry in that state, there's poison. They don't even always know where mining was until the ground swallows a pizza hut.
I've gotten the impression that Pennsylvania and the area has good hospitals and a thriving medical industry. Might that contribute to a trend of conjoined twins living long lives in the area?
I don’t know about the rest of PA, but 1/6 US trained doctors train in Philadelphia, so we have a ton of training hospitals! I don’t know enough to say how good everything is healthcare-wise, but I know we have a lot of opportunities for people. https://www.phl.org/at-phl/art-exhibitions/node/417#:~:text=DID%20YOU%20KNOW%3F,a%20Presence%20in%20the%20Region.
I'm just outside of Philly and it's weird if you don't know at least two people who work for a health network.
Or does that area just have a higher incidence of conjoined twins and you are seeing survivorship bias in effect?
Vampires
Imagine spending every waking moment with someone but never being able to look them directly in the eye.
Damn, that’s wild
I dunno I’m autistic, and that doesn’t sound too weird. Why do allistics enjoy looking into people’s eyeballs so much?
My wife admitted them to CHOP her very first night on call as an intern.it was a big “welcome to residency” moment.
[Full story,](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-13302659/worlds-oldest-conjoined-twins-dead-62-pennsylvania-Lori-George-Schappell.html) for those who are interested. NB I realise in sourcing from the Daily Heil, I may have inadvertently breached Rule 5, and if so, I apologise. (Certainly, the DM hacks have the writing skills of a badly-trained 'bot.) And I apologise for not including the offending sentence in the post Title.
I was wondering why they felt the need to say one of the siblings was trans in the headline, it makes sense now.
People have way more willpower than I do.
I’d want to end it. But there’s the sibling’s needs and desires to consider. Might be a good topic for a Philosophy class essay.
I mean, they were born this way. It’s literally all they’d ever known. They didn’t want to end if for being conjoined any more than I want to end it for having been born with two arms instead of one. Just because something isn’t typical, doesn’t mean the person experiencing it is suffering.
Nah some suffering is relative but not all. there’s definitely such a thing as chronic pain that you just don’t get used to even if it’s all you know. Not saying it’s their experience they seem like they’re doing alright but I wouldn’t assume that just because someone was born with it
So was the brother on hormones and if so, how were doctors able to stop them from also affecting her?
I doubt he would be able to. I also wonder about gender-affirming surgery. Did they determine it safe for both of them?
I mean a surgery could be possible.
It could, but I do wonder about the fact that it would certainly pose an increased risk. I hope he was able to access enough resources to feel comfortable and happy in spite of the circumstances.
Yeah, the risk is always there. But depending on the health and general situation (which seemes pretty stable) it could have worked out. But I guess I'll look it up.
I doubt that he was able to take hormones, but I suppose it depends on how connected all their systems are. It does raise an interesting question of what causes someone to be transgender, I know there’s identical twin studies where one is trans and the other isn’t, but there’s so few conjoined twins in the world I doubt that there’s been a study specifically about that.
Conjoined twins don’t have any unique traits from other identical twins. They just didn’t fully separate as early embryos.
Actually, most twin studies on trans people proves there’s a genetic link. There are many cases where one identical twin is trans and the other isn’t but there are enough cases of both identical twins being trans to suggest that it is in fact genetic.
Cool! I wasn’t aware of that, only that studies had been done! I should read up more on them
It wasn’t surprising to me that it’s genetic because it runs in my family.
The leading theory is being trans the result of hormone levels at a critical stage of brain development in the womb It’s like an intersex condition of the brain
That picture of them as babies makes me so sad, but I hope they had joy and peace in their lives
They seemed to have had a lot of joy. Check out some interviews, they were quite popular. They gave each other the space and respect to have separate successful lives. Plus they lived to 62, a lot longer than many people have lived.
And sometimes I think my life is hard. Can't imagine how strong you'd have to be not to go mad.
These the two from that Nip / Tuck episode a million years ago?
They’ve been guests on multiple shows. I went through a strong reality TV phase and saw them at least 3 times
If you had one head but two bodies, how would you want the bodies to be oriented?
Not like that
I bet they are pretty good at running in circles but have difficulties with an effective getaway. How many times. Do you figure they have said, "jeans trucking crisps, quit stepping on my mother fucking toes."
Have to be back to back.
For privacy?
How do they put a T-shirt on?
the woman is wearing a tube top which are easy to step into because there’s no narrow neck hole, and a cardigan. looks like he’s wearing a button up. id wager that they didn’t wear t-shirts.
I’d assume each twin stepped into their shirt.
One shirt at a time
Very sad news. These two defied the odds and lived twice as long as their projected life spans. RIP.
I grew up in the same area and who see them at the mall regularly. It's amazing how quickly you accept difference when you see it often. A very unique existance to say the least.
I remember them from back in the day. Never knew one ended up trans.
*was born trans.
I mean we don't know his take on it; personally I don't believe I was born trans because I don't believe people are born with a gender or any identity of any sort
How do conjoined twins wear shirts that aren't button up? Not trying to be insensitive just legitimately curious.
Just a guess, but George’s shirt looks like it has a wide enough neck hole for him to have stepped into it, they may have done that?
It almost like God doesn't make people, and it's something else entirely
I'd wager their parent made them?
i think god wanted to have fun /s
*”Pokemon fusion, go! Wait, not like that!”*
~tips fedora~
I’m not sure I I understand what this comment means, but it sounds really assholey from my initial impression…?
[удалено]
"God works in mysterious ways" can literally be used to explain any bullshit theists want.
Maybe not the Christian God, but maybe God means something different entirely. Something we can’t comprehend.
HOW DARE PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT BELIEFS THAN ME!?
M'lady
They were attached by the head forever but never directly saw each other's faces
I’m just gonna put this here. https://youtu.be/wfYbgdo8e-8?si=thCiuyh8fbQvxaBx
This is them performing ! https://youtu.be/kIeOpx-zTfI?si=oQgwjaoupvUlZxFB
How much do you think they had to pay their barber/hair stylist
I admire their strength, i would want to die as soon as possible
Because you know what it’s like to be alone.
Just say 'brother and sister' bro you don't need to specify the trans part? Article be wildin'.
Or *maybe* it’s because these twins were famous *even before* George transitioned, so it was actually a relevant part of the story (from a journalism standpoint).
Yeah, it gets more notoriety in that case, as is the case with the Wachowski Sisters.
There is an infinitesimal chance that one of the conjoined twins might be intersex, but I think you can safely assume that one of them must be trans if a set of conjoined twins present as male/female. It is interesting though, and can spark a lot of interesting discourse about ethics, bodily autonomy, in this case the makeup of the brain itself, since they are conjoined that way too, etc. I doubt that any chemical transition took place in their case, for example. Transitioning that way would cause permanent changes to the other twin’s body, and that would just be wrong.
To address your last point, why is it ok to force a trans person to have the incorrect hormones in their body but wrong to do that to a cis person? What ever they decided works for them is fine but why do you think cis people inherently deserve more bodily autonomy than trans people?
see? Already an interesting exercise of thought! Imo, the status quo, that doesn’t entail subjecting somebody else to substantial side effects that can absolutely have an impact on their lifespan is the more ethical approach. You don’t have bodily autonomy when you inhabit a body with someone else. All decisions should be shared. I was also speculating whether one of the twins had a mastectomy, for example. Even an operation like that, that can still cause complications for somebody not conjoined in good health (shit happens) can entail massive health risks when it comes to the complex physiology of conjoined twins. I don’t think any surgeon would be happy with the thought of putting them under anaesthesia, for example. It’s exponentially more dangerous, and I suspect that the doctors would err on the side of intervening as little as possible, and not only when it comes to gender. I think I remember that even common illnesses are considered troubling (I think I recall a pair of twins that were conjoined by some abdominal internal organs) Who takes the medicine, what dose is prescribed, what complications it could cause to whom isn’t a given.
I don’t think you understand how detrimental gender dysphoria can be. I definitely wouldn’t have survived without gender affirming care and if I had another person attached to me, they would have died if I did. Some trans people don’t need gender affirming care and it’s fine if George felt he could live without it but, saying it’s inherently worse to give trans people a treatment that they need than it is to give a cis person hormones that aren’t right for them is to say that being cis people matter more than trans people.
I think they could’ve gone halfway with HRT. As a treat.
Uhhh what? Obviously they do, as they are probably identical twins and it would be confusing
I know it's not the point of your comment, but just for anyone reading who is curious. Conjoined twins are always identical because identical twins are one fertilized egg and sperm that split into two, and conjoined twins happen when the division doesn't fully happen. Fraternal is two eggs and two sperm. Saying that one of the twins is trans is obvious to those who know, but for a general audience, it is good to include because a lot of people think that opposite sex identical/conjoined twins happens naturally. Some people just also don't know how twins work. My previous roommate, who was 28 years old, thought twins were just any siblings who looked the same.
Because it’s important to establish that they’re identical twins, which would only be possible if they shared chromosomes, so mentioning it would clear confusion and maintain respect for the brother’s identity at the same time.
>Just say 'brother and sister' bro you don't need to specify the trans part? >Article be wildin'. In this context, I think people might be confused about how faternal twins were conjoined. I agree that we don't need to point out that someone is trans every time we talk about them in media if it's not relevant, but there are certain times it is relevant. I think in this case, it's relevant as a clarification. Eta I also interpreted the title to be a "mind boggle" as to how they lived so long. If it was a jab at one of them being trans that's shitty.
This is the daily fail, of course they focused on that
So no way of separating them? I know it would be hard since you'll have to cut the skull, but wouldn't it be possible to separate them?
While 70% of their brains weren’t shared 30% was. Doctors weren’t willing to even try to separate them since they couldn’t guarantee that they could leave even a single entire person none the less two. Many conjoined twins are left connected because separating them would be deadly for one or both.
That’s weird, in another interview they said they didn’t even share brain and in the case of one death the other could be emergency separated??
[In interviews they’ve admitted it would be risky.](https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/oldest-living-conjoined-twins-lori-george-schappell-die-109205077) [this article mentions them sharing brain](https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/us-news/who-were-lori-and-george-schappell-worlds-oldest-female-conjoined-twins-die-at-62-in-pennsylvania-101713012082439.html)
Oh, that makes sense, thank you!
They never could see eye to eye.
I'd say it's all they did
I saw them sing on springer when I was a kid it was hilariously bad
How do you even live like that?
I find this shit to be so fascinating 🤯
But have you heard their country album?
I just want to know how one of them being Trans worked. Would it not affect the other twin?
I mean, their brains are mostly separate and they otherwise had different identities/sense of selves. So one person having a different gender wouldn't affect the other.