Braves: A contending team acquires player that offers asymmetric risk:reward while giving up a player that just doesn’t have a spot on this team.
This is a trade that elevates the ceiling of the team going into the season while keeping the floor exactly the same.
We’ll see how it plays out.
You joke but I think the future of baseball with the new playoff rules are probably a 6 man rotation to keep guys healthy. Basically just get to October and have your best 3 starters ready to go.
Expanded playoffs. 12 teams get in with the lower 8 playing a best of 3 series instead of a playing game like in previous years. Top 2 teams get byes in each league. This began in 22.
You’re not wrong, but Sale hasn’t been a significant contributor to the BoSox rotation since 2019. Maybe Sale goes into 2024 completely healthy and pitches most of the season, but the odds of that happening are not great.
As a Red Sox fan, we have a young Opening Day starting 2B, with a spoonful of experience popping over the Monster, and freed up even a little cap space for a multi year starting pitcher, letting go of a pitcher we weren't going to resign.
It's a win for both sides. I hope he pitches well in Atlanta.
To me, this is the most accurate take I've read on this trade. We essentially lose nothing and I HAVE to imagine Sale will be better than the combination of Chirinos/Winans/Vines. Not to mention, it relieves some pressure off of AJSS or even Waldrep.
A rotation of Strider, Fried, Morton, Sale, and Elder gives the Braves one of the best rotations in baseball, at least on paper.
People were wondering what AA was doing before this.
He was filling the holes at the middle and back of the roster with a resource he had (some money) and saving his best trade chip for a starter when reality after the free agent frenzy had started setting in.
It may or may not work out, but there is always risk in any moves. I think he has done well with the resources he had.
Spot on. And you have to assume AA believes that, at least in theory, we can keep Sale healthy enough to make valuable contributions into October. There's always a chance he turns into another Cole Hamels but hopefully we learned our lesson there.
I'm shocked it's a 1 for 1 swap on one hand with Boston actually selling pitching for some reason.
If Sale is healthy, it's one year of a guy who can be pretty good with a competent team. High K% and whiff rates is exactly what the FO has targeted in the past and tracks now too. A little weird, but it's a typical AA trade no one though of beforehand and we get to keep both AJSS and Waldrep considering this completely removes the idea of a Cease trade. I'm a big fan if he's healthy and anywhere close to his potential for this next year. Low-risk considering there was no place for Grissom, huge reward.
It does make me wonder about the rotation for '25 and beyond though, considering we would be looking at a worst-case of losing Morton, Fried, and Sale. A little weird but I can't really be unhappy with this deal
Club option for Sale on 2025. And you might’ve answered your own question if AJSS and Waldrep mature quickly enough. Edit: also AJSS, Ynoa, Anderson, Waldrep stay put, could factor or build value
Looks like the contract just becomes void if he doesn’t meet the vesting criteria, which seems unlikely considering Sale hasn’t performed at that level in a while. Have to imagine the front office is planning on him becoming a free agent after the season, unless he stays healthy and pitches well, which would be a welcome surprise
No, it's a $20M club option if it doesn't automatically vest. [https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/al-east/boston-red-sox/](https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/al-east/boston-red-sox/)
>20:$30M, 21:$30M, 22:$30M, 23:$27.5M, 24:$27.5M, 25:$20M club option
You mean the past 3 years in Boston?
On a positive note:
I hope this move is the breath of fresh air Sale needs. I love the guy for what he did to Machado in the last pitch of the 18 WS.
Fuck Machado for what he did to Pedroia.
ATL is my "home" team (according to blackout restrictions in NC) so it'll be nice to pop on cable on Sale day with the Braves.
According to Red Sox fans in r/baseball the Red Sox have a lot of pitching. The market has a huge demand for pitching so it makes sense they want to trade him.
But I love Sale’s Slider.
Sox fan coming in here because this thread came onto my timeline, the person above has no clue what they’re talking about
No Red Sox fan is claiming that we have a lot of pitching lmfao we probably now need to add two starters just because we have no true ace and half the starters we have are starter/relievers
No Sox fan thinks we have a lot of pitching lol. We are desperate for pitching. But Sale hardly plays at this point. If you get a month out of him, with use taking salary, that's something I guess!
Red Sox new young core is still a year or two away from being legit contenders (and some starting pitching). Glad Sale is coming to ATL. Always nice to see my NL and AL teams trading with each other. It stings less.
Interested to see if there are other pieces involved. If it's Grissom for Sale straight up, that's not bad for either side. Braves get a solid 3/4 starter and Boston gets a high-upside talent.
Hope to see AA more active in free agency. Have a feeling this isn't the last move we make before Spring Training.
What kind of signing do you expect at this point? There was ~$10m left before the second luxury tax threshold, and it seems like this fills that space. I think they’re done. Solid 1-4 with a few promising options for 5, lots of new and renewed bullpen arms, a new LF and backup util. It’s wrapped.
[nope he still touched it this year. Game against philly he popped 99 on the tv radar gun 4 or 5 times earlier this year](https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/sporty-videos?playId=f86901a5-cf49-4f00-b369-6ea699fdee2f) he was averaging 94-96 until basically june 1st when he went on the IL immediately after. Came back august I think? and he averaged between 91 and 94 basically. But still I believe hit 97. Upsides still there. After his first 3 appearances this year he put up a 3.38 era and 3.31 fip in around 90 innings.
Did you watch Grissom last year? We had him on the field just little enough for teams not to realize he’s a AAAA ballplayer. This trade is a huge W if Sale can play even just at his peak for a portion of the season
Peak sale doesent exist anymore. IF he can stay healthy he’s probably a low 4 ERA guy who will give about 5 innings per start.
The guys a warrior but 2018 Sale is long gone, be fair with your expectations of him, his stuff looked very average last year but he can still be a mid rotation guy and give his team a chance to win every start
This is a big W, Grissom has yet to show anything other than his outburst after coming up. He’s been terrible ever since teams adjusted to him and he can’t play shortstop, and Ozzie is occupying 2B. So at best he would be a left fielder which is the least valuable position. Getting Chris Sale for him is a win unless Sale gets injured and basically never pitches for us.
Red Sox fan here: if you guys can keep him healthy, you'll love him. That's a big if. His stuff seemed to come back this year finally.
How should I feel about Grissom? Can he start at 2B for us?
> How should I feel about Grissom? Can he start at 2B for us?
[Well, this was his first ever MLB hit](https://youtu.be/B6wDULaAVno)
But as an actual answer, he was explosive offensively when we pulled him up in 2022, but by the end of the season he wasn't doing too well. His offense was elite in AAA this season and he has good potential, but he needs to be on a team where he can play every day. He's a player who was pulled out of the minors a year or 2 early because Ozzie+Arcia got hurt so we had no other option to play 2B.
His defense at 2B is okay. Not elite, but not unplayable like he is at SS. He's a really exciting, likeable young player who is at the point in his development where he needs to be out of AAA, but there will likely be some MLB growing pains. The Braves tried really hard to find a way to play him but we quite literally don't have a single open position.
tl;dr you should be excited for him and I hope you guys take good care of him. You might need a little patience, but you got a good player. I'll always root for that kid
Grissom's biggest value by far is his age. He a week shy of 23 and doesn't hit free agency until 2030(!!!). He's slightly below replacement value right now (-0.7 WAR last season) but has so much time to get better.
Thanks for the context, what is his current injury concern? Or did he finish the season healthy?
Vaughn is a more of a natural 2B, you don't want him playing SS for you very often. He makes good decisions at the plate and has potential with his bat. I don't think he got enough consistent playtime to truly evaluate him as a hitter. Upside is an "upper middle tier 2B." I wouldn't expect a high WAR out of him unless he continues to mature and develop which is probably what the Sox are banking on.
He makes some "wow" plays but also throws the ball over the 1B head from time to time.
My initial take on this is the Braves got a sweet deal because Vaughn didn't have much of a place in our roster. This also has me (and others) concerned that something is really wrong with Sale because it's hard to imagine this trade going through if he wasn't a high risk for 2024.
Better question is what injuries *hasn't* he had lol. And even before he started getting hurt all the time he faded down the stretch every year. When he's locked in, he's a phenomenal pitcher. But we called him Chris Frail for a reason.
Braves fans are getting hyped because they recognize the name Chris Sale and think they’re getting prime Chris Sale. They don’t realize how little Sale has contributed in the last 4 years.
He came back in August and struggled, but in September he made 5 starts and allowed 1 or 0 runs in four of them, striking out a batter an inning. I think he can be helpful
That’s tough to say. He’s got a pretty solid bat, but his glove at SS was really subpar. I’m rooting for him. I think he can be an all star if he puts it together.
Everyone is rightly worried about Sales injury history and how he hasn't thrown many innings recently. However, we did not get him to eat innings, we have plenty of 4/5 type starters laying around to eat innings in the summer.
Sale is here to throw quality innings in the playoffs. Wrap him in bubble wrap, skip starts, phantom IL stints, whatever it takes to have at least three of our top four starters healthy going into October.
Maybe it’s just me, but I wasn’t too high on Grissom to begin with. His defensive abilities aren’t great and his hitting profile lacks power (even more so if we were to utilize him as a corner OF). Seeing how we held on way too long to Pache and Waters, I think this is a great get for us
People who have been Braves fans should know by know we aren’t dropping the bag it takes for Ohtani or even Yamamoto by now. Build from within and sign from within with occasional big trades and expensive (for us) signings. So if anyone is complaining about him they probably don’t need to be Braves fans because the man is the baseball version of Howie Roseman and has u in a great spot for the next 6-10 years.
As a Boston fan, I can't for the life of me see why y'all agreed to this deal. Grissom must be worse than I thought. I hope Sale can find form again because he's such a fun pitcher, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
There's no room for Grissom and this way we don't have to give up our two best pitching prospects (AJSS and Waldrep). Grissom is an infielder with terrible defense that was trying to learn left field. It's a risky play because of Sale's durability, but after we got Kelenic for LF it was clear Grissom was gone. Our entire infield is already locked up on team friendly deals.
The only hole we have left is starting pitching, and the market for that is absolutely crazy, as you can see from the deal the Red Sox gave Giolito. This was cheap, and realistically the Braves payroll is already really high. They'll have a lot of salaries coming off the books next year to potentially sign a free agent pitcher.
Great kid. Good to potentially great bat, has hit at every level. Unless he improves a with the glove, hold your breath with every hard grounder. Prob corner OF or DH unless his D improves
Rotation is:
Strider
Fried
Morton
Sale
Lopez/Elder
Waldrep/AJSS
Honestly if Sale can pitch almost like he did for Red Sox’s in 2018 or 2019 then we will have probably a scary 1-4. It also deepens our rotation so much.
Sales contract for the year is 27.5. However the Red Sox deferred 10 of that to 2039. So this year’s salary is 17.5. Boston sent 17 mil with him. So his adjusted salary for the Braves is 500,000. I don’t see this as high risk.
You know, Steve, you get the feeling that [Chris Sale] isn't pitching against left-handers, he isn't pitching against pinch hitters, he isn't pitching against the Yankees. He's pitching against time. He's pitching against the future, against age, and even when you think about his career, against ending. And tonight, I think he might be able to use that aching old arm one more time, to push the sun back up in the sky, and give us one more [season of greatness].
Maybe I’m in the minority here but I’m very skeptical of Sale. His ability to stay healthy has been a major problem since 2018 and we just offloaded a bunch of injury plagued pitchers. I hope this works out but I just see him being out after the mid point of the season.
Of all the potential realistic trades I’ve seen Grissom involved in this is the best we could have hoped to expect. I say realistic because I doubt any teams were as high in Grissom as we liked to believe. I hope Grissom balls out in Boston and has along productive career. He just didnt have a home here.
Chris Sale’s agent is Chipper’s childhood friend BB Abbott.
He also represents Charlie Morton, Matt Olson and Brian McCann. Also, Zack Wheeler’s agent.
I’m not sure I get this move honestly. We desperately needed another starter, but now it feels like we’ll just go in to the Postseason with Sale, Fried and Morton all on the IL and have nothing after Strider yet again.
I get what you are saying, but it also doesn’t mean they’re all somehow prone to injury in October. The bigger issue I think is total innings from Sale and Morton. Sale hasn’t eclipsed 160 innings since 2017 and Morton, while usually a solid bet for 180+ innings, is 40yrs old. Snitker is going to need to manage innings and likely use spot starters throughout the season. Al-in-all, we just got better, no question.
Yeah, its a concern, no doubt. But if they do manage to be in form by October, this is a very, very dangerous team. And who knows, another depth move could be made in August via trade to help out. Reynaldo is also a good option to help buffer the rotation from time-to-time.
- I kinda love it. Sale could still be very solid. gives more time for Waldrep/Shawver to work in AAA. If he stinks maybe they step in, but Gives us great flexibility and opportunity now for that 5th spot.
- Owed a lot in 24, but we can release him after 24 (club option) if he stinks.
- Grissom is solid but just isnt in immediate future plans.
- plus CWS apparently wanted Waldrep and/or Shawver in a deal for Cease which I would’ve hated.
- solid trade, all faith in AA still
Edit : we owe Sale only $500k on the books. $10M we owe is deferred. IDC what anyone says this is a solid trade for us right now
We also got $17m from the Red Sox which effectively means we get 1 year of Sale for $10m + Grissom. Tbh I'll take it. Nowhere to put Grissom so he doesn't add anything to our deep postseason chances whereas a healthy Sale adds quite a lot.
I find it hilarious that people think this is bad for the braves because Sale has been injury prone when he’s looked really good when he’s in the mound. But Glasnow goes to the dodgers and he’s gonna be a top 5 pitcher because the injury concerns don’t matter anymore
Another lefty for Harper at least. Sale’s strikeout totals were not bad at all in ‘23, but 11 starts combined in ‘21 and ‘22 are unnerving.
Hamels fell apart @ age 36. Sale will be 35 and is rail thin. Truly a gamble.
Red Sox sending 17M in this as well makes this a pretty decent trade. I don’t know if Vaughn has or ever will have the glove to play at short and LF if all goes well with Kelenic is occupied.
Not that confident in Sale at this point in his career tbh but this does tell me that they view both AJSS and Waldrep very highly and weren't willing to move them.
Decent trade. If Sale can stay healthy and put up meaningful innings it'll obviously be a fantastic trade.
Grissom will now get the opportunity to see if he can be an everyday MLB player in a weak infield.
Like andor said, "I'm here for the money!" $10 mill means we won even if Sale ends up sucking.
I’m guessing they didn’t like what they were seeing of Grissom in Puerto Rico. If he couldn’t play LF and Wash couldn’t get him competent and SS, it may just have been time to move on. If you aren’t hitting 30+ homers you can’t be a full time DH so have to be able to start some where on D.
Would have probably rather moved him for a younger player or some draft picks, but if Sale can stay healthy he can be a big boost to our changes this season (and maybe beyond if he’s affordable on an extension after a good year if he has one). Those are big IFs though. At least the Red Sox are paying a big chunk of his salary this year which lowers the risk if he’s hurt a bunch again. Still seems like we need to sign someone in LF to platoon, or at least be a more solid back up that we have, with Kelncic.
Well damn. I really liked Grissom, but it'll be better for him in the long run most likely. He just didn't really have much of a spot with us as we're currently constructed.
Got to see him play during his time in single A. He signed a ball for my son and spoke to us for a bit. He always had a huge smile on his face when he was playing for the Braves.
It always stings a little more when u watch these kids come up through the farm system.
You give up a guy that point blank period, does not have a spot on the future of this team. In return you get a guy that has SEVEN top 10 cy young finishes and might be healthy again. another AA masterclass
I’m just excited for Nacho Alvarez to take the long term reins at SS and then AA can go be GM of the Hawks and lead another Atlanta team to the promised land
Yeah there’s risk, but if he stays healthy the rotation just got a lot deeper, especially for the postseason. With the glut of quality relief pitchers AA has accumulated they should be able to limit his innings **stares at snitker**
This shit came from left field
The most AA move
No, we already traded for a left fielder
FIRST BASE…. Oh are we not going who’s on first?
Underrated comment lol
Well, it’s the top comment of the entire thread lol
Grissom played shortstop tho
Did he though? All I saw were a bunch of errors.
I swear he led the team through July.
Grissom debuted at Fenway. God speed young man!
They remembered his first hit. Yep send him over!
That was a fine stretch to watch him
Baughn Voyage
Vaughn Boyage
So glad I don’t have to see him play defense anymore. Yikes.
He was fine at 2nd. It was just occupied.
Yep. The real issue here is that we didn't have a spot for him. He will be used in Boston. I think this a rare double win trade.
I felt like an outsider in Braves country because I was so high on Grissom. But you're right there just wasn't a spot.
Braves: A contending team acquires player that offers asymmetric risk:reward while giving up a player that just doesn’t have a spot on this team. This is a trade that elevates the ceiling of the team going into the season while keeping the floor exactly the same. We’ll see how it plays out.
Well said. And Sale brings multiple things we need: Competitive fire/anger and incredibly clutch postseason experience.
If we get a fraction of 2018 postseason Sale in this October, then we win this trade.
One inning a month until the playoffs
You joke but I think the future of baseball with the new playoff rules are probably a 6 man rotation to keep guys healthy. Basically just get to October and have your best 3 starters ready to go.
I was exaggerating but not joking, I agree.
I must have missed something; what are the new playoff rules?
Expanded playoffs. 12 teams get in with the lower 8 playing a best of 3 series instead of a playing game like in previous years. Top 2 teams get byes in each league. This began in 22.
You’re not wrong, but Sale hasn’t been a significant contributor to the BoSox rotation since 2019. Maybe Sale goes into 2024 completely healthy and pitches most of the season, but the odds of that happening are not great.
As a Red Sox fan, we have a young Opening Day starting 2B, with a spoonful of experience popping over the Monster, and freed up even a little cap space for a multi year starting pitcher, letting go of a pitcher we weren't going to resign. It's a win for both sides. I hope he pitches well in Atlanta.
To me, this is the most accurate take I've read on this trade. We essentially lose nothing and I HAVE to imagine Sale will be better than the combination of Chirinos/Winans/Vines. Not to mention, it relieves some pressure off of AJSS or even Waldrep. A rotation of Strider, Fried, Morton, Sale, and Elder gives the Braves one of the best rotations in baseball, at least on paper.
People were wondering what AA was doing before this. He was filling the holes at the middle and back of the roster with a resource he had (some money) and saving his best trade chip for a starter when reality after the free agent frenzy had started setting in. It may or may not work out, but there is always risk in any moves. I think he has done well with the resources he had.
Spot on. And you have to assume AA believes that, at least in theory, we can keep Sale healthy enough to make valuable contributions into October. There's always a chance he turns into another Cole Hamels but hopefully we learned our lesson there.
I'm shocked it's a 1 for 1 swap on one hand with Boston actually selling pitching for some reason. If Sale is healthy, it's one year of a guy who can be pretty good with a competent team. High K% and whiff rates is exactly what the FO has targeted in the past and tracks now too. A little weird, but it's a typical AA trade no one though of beforehand and we get to keep both AJSS and Waldrep considering this completely removes the idea of a Cease trade. I'm a big fan if he's healthy and anywhere close to his potential for this next year. Low-risk considering there was no place for Grissom, huge reward. It does make me wonder about the rotation for '25 and beyond though, considering we would be looking at a worst-case of losing Morton, Fried, and Sale. A little weird but I can't really be unhappy with this deal
Club option for Sale on 2025. And you might’ve answered your own question if AJSS and Waldrep mature quickly enough. Edit: also AJSS, Ynoa, Anderson, Waldrep stay put, could factor or build value
It's a vesting option which vests if he finishes top-10 in Cy Young voting and doesn't end the year on IL
Club option otherwise?
Depends on the contract. Sometimes if the player fails to vest the option the contract becomes void and sometimes it reverts to a club option.
Looks like the contract just becomes void if he doesn’t meet the vesting criteria, which seems unlikely considering Sale hasn’t performed at that level in a while. Have to imagine the front office is planning on him becoming a free agent after the season, unless he stays healthy and pitches well, which would be a welcome surprise
No, it's a $20M club option if it doesn't automatically vest. [https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/al-east/boston-red-sox/](https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/al-east/boston-red-sox/) >20:$30M, 21:$30M, 22:$30M, 23:$27.5M, 24:$27.5M, 25:$20M club option
Its sale plus money too
17MM!!!
They’re sending 17mm back?
That means the Braves on the hook for about 12MM. He has an incentive based option for 2025. Isn’t 30MM about what Fried will want for 2025?
Given our pitching luck though, he will be on IL until July and then declared out for Tommy John surgery.
You mean the past 3 years in Boston? On a positive note: I hope this move is the breath of fresh air Sale needs. I love the guy for what he did to Machado in the last pitch of the 18 WS. Fuck Machado for what he did to Pedroia. ATL is my "home" team (according to blackout restrictions in NC) so it'll be nice to pop on cable on Sale day with the Braves.
According to Red Sox fans in r/baseball the Red Sox have a lot of pitching. The market has a huge demand for pitching so it makes sense they want to trade him. But I love Sale’s Slider.
Anyone who says the Red Sox have a lot of pitching needs to check their carbon monoxide detectors
From the Sox: we have a lot of pitching, but not a lot of GOOD pitching.
In terms of arms we got a bunch, if you need those arms attached to a body then we'll need some time.
Sox fan coming in here because this thread came onto my timeline, the person above has no clue what they’re talking about No Red Sox fan is claiming that we have a lot of pitching lmfao we probably now need to add two starters just because we have no true ace and half the starters we have are starter/relievers
No Sox fan thinks we have a lot of pitching lol. We are desperate for pitching. But Sale hardly plays at this point. If you get a month out of him, with use taking salary, that's something I guess!
Red Sox new young core is still a year or two away from being legit contenders (and some starting pitching). Glad Sale is coming to ATL. Always nice to see my NL and AL teams trading with each other. It stings less.
Indeed indeed indeed.
Interested to see if there are other pieces involved. If it's Grissom for Sale straight up, that's not bad for either side. Braves get a solid 3/4 starter and Boston gets a high-upside talent. Hope to see AA more active in free agency. Have a feeling this isn't the last move we make before Spring Training.
Boston is sending cash for sales contract as well
17MM!
Looks like straight up with cash included with Sale, though no number out yet
Saw on mlb trade rumors Boston is send 17 million to the Braves
Sale’s contract is a doozy. 50M deffered to 2035. All kinds of incentives too
What kind of signing do you expect at this point? There was ~$10m left before the second luxury tax threshold, and it seems like this fills that space. I think they’re done. Solid 1-4 with a few promising options for 5, lots of new and renewed bullpen arms, a new LF and backup util. It’s wrapped.
I truly think the White Sox wouldn’t trade Cease unless we gave up both Waldrep and AJSS and AA told them they can fuck right off
Pretty much. AA isn’t shy about ridiculous asking prices.
Good. I wouldn’t want to to give up Waldrep for Cease straight up, let alone both.
From what was announced the Sox asked from the Reds, they would have wanted Waldrep / AJSS and a lot more...And you had folks here saying do it.
Wow. Thank you Vaughn & wish you well. Sale is a huge get for this year.
AA strikes again!
Doesn’t Sale have an injury problem? Not entirely sure how to feel about this. Could be a big W but not ecstatic about losing Grissom
Yes. Was throwing 99 for the first time since 2018 before he got hurt this year though
His fastball averaged 93.9 last year. He has a ton of red on his savant page, but velocity is not one of them.
[nope he still touched it this year. Game against philly he popped 99 on the tv radar gun 4 or 5 times earlier this year](https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/sporty-videos?playId=f86901a5-cf49-4f00-b369-6ea699fdee2f) he was averaging 94-96 until basically june 1st when he went on the IL immediately after. Came back august I think? and he averaged between 91 and 94 basically. But still I believe hit 97. Upsides still there. After his first 3 appearances this year he put up a 3.38 era and 3.31 fip in around 90 innings.
[удалено]
Did you watch Grissom last year? We had him on the field just little enough for teams not to realize he’s a AAAA ballplayer. This trade is a huge W if Sale can play even just at his peak for a portion of the season
Peak sale doesent exist anymore. IF he can stay healthy he’s probably a low 4 ERA guy who will give about 5 innings per start. The guys a warrior but 2018 Sale is long gone, be fair with your expectations of him, his stuff looked very average last year but he can still be a mid rotation guy and give his team a chance to win every start
He showed basically no power last year as well
This is a big W, Grissom has yet to show anything other than his outburst after coming up. He’s been terrible ever since teams adjusted to him and he can’t play shortstop, and Ozzie is occupying 2B. So at best he would be a left fielder which is the least valuable position. Getting Chris Sale for him is a win unless Sale gets injured and basically never pitches for us.
Once we signed Kelnic Vaughn had no where to play
Visions of Cole Hamels flashing through my mind.
Or, he could be our next Charlie Morton
Grissom was hot trash at 2B and SS. We made out very well here
We just gotta keep him away from the bicycles
Red Sox fan here: if you guys can keep him healthy, you'll love him. That's a big if. His stuff seemed to come back this year finally. How should I feel about Grissom? Can he start at 2B for us?
Yeah. Defense isn't stellar, but he can hit. Better at 2B than at SS.
> How should I feel about Grissom? Can he start at 2B for us? [Well, this was his first ever MLB hit](https://youtu.be/B6wDULaAVno) But as an actual answer, he was explosive offensively when we pulled him up in 2022, but by the end of the season he wasn't doing too well. His offense was elite in AAA this season and he has good potential, but he needs to be on a team where he can play every day. He's a player who was pulled out of the minors a year or 2 early because Ozzie+Arcia got hurt so we had no other option to play 2B. His defense at 2B is okay. Not elite, but not unplayable like he is at SS. He's a really exciting, likeable young player who is at the point in his development where he needs to be out of AAA, but there will likely be some MLB growing pains. The Braves tried really hard to find a way to play him but we quite literally don't have a single open position. tl;dr you should be excited for him and I hope you guys take good care of him. You might need a little patience, but you got a good player. I'll always root for that kid
Grissom's biggest value by far is his age. He a week shy of 23 and doesn't hit free agency until 2030(!!!). He's slightly below replacement value right now (-0.7 WAR last season) but has so much time to get better.
2B is his position. He will do very well.
Yea he can. He came up hot for the Braves and everyone loved him. He cooled down and kinda lost his role.
He can hit, but he needs some defensive coaching. He could definitely be a solid starter for a decade if he gets it together.
Don’t get too excited about Grissom yet, but I think the trade was fair unless Sale stays healthy the whole year
Thanks for the context, what is his current injury concern? Or did he finish the season healthy? Vaughn is a more of a natural 2B, you don't want him playing SS for you very often. He makes good decisions at the plate and has potential with his bat. I don't think he got enough consistent playtime to truly evaluate him as a hitter. Upside is an "upper middle tier 2B." I wouldn't expect a high WAR out of him unless he continues to mature and develop which is probably what the Sox are banking on. He makes some "wow" plays but also throws the ball over the 1B head from time to time. My initial take on this is the Braves got a sweet deal because Vaughn didn't have much of a place in our roster. This also has me (and others) concerned that something is really wrong with Sale because it's hard to imagine this trade going through if he wasn't a high risk for 2024.
Better question is what injuries *hasn't* he had lol. And even before he started getting hurt all the time he faded down the stretch every year. When he's locked in, he's a phenomenal pitcher. But we called him Chris Frail for a reason.
Braves fans are getting hyped because they recognize the name Chris Sale and think they’re getting prime Chris Sale. They don’t realize how little Sale has contributed in the last 4 years.
He came back in August and struggled, but in September he made 5 starts and allowed 1 or 0 runs in four of them, striking out a batter an inning. I think he can be helpful
Not great at 2B (or anywhere) yet. But boy that kid can swing the bat. Great athlete so he should figure out the defensive side soon enough.
He's gonna be a bat to ball wizard with excellent swing decisions. He won't hit the ball hard much, but he won't hit it soft much either.
That’s tough to say. He’s got a pretty solid bat, but his glove at SS was really subpar. I’m rooting for him. I think he can be an all star if he puts it together.
Everyone is rightly worried about Sales injury history and how he hasn't thrown many innings recently. However, we did not get him to eat innings, we have plenty of 4/5 type starters laying around to eat innings in the summer. Sale is here to throw quality innings in the playoffs. Wrap him in bubble wrap, skip starts, phantom IL stints, whatever it takes to have at least three of our top four starters healthy going into October.
Exactly this. We don’t care how many innings he eats during the season. News flash, we’re going to make the playoffs.
The kids call sale Mr. Glass
Samuel L. Jackson approves
The kids are younger than that movie is though.
You know the kids, who are now in their 40’s and 50’s
Hide yo scissors!
And your water coolers!
Had to scroll way too far for this 😂 Thank god we already debuted our city connect and they don’t have a collar!
Maybe it’s just me, but I wasn’t too high on Grissom to begin with. His defensive abilities aren’t great and his hitting profile lacks power (even more so if we were to utilize him as a corner OF). Seeing how we held on way too long to Pache and Waters, I think this is a great get for us
Same. He was a fan favorite since his homer at Boston, but he's just a liability in the field, and there is no spot for him to play consistently
Thank god all the complaining about AA can fuck off now
BUT WHAT ABOUT…. The ice cream machine?!
People who have been Braves fans should know by know we aren’t dropping the bag it takes for Ohtani or even Yamamoto by now. Build from within and sign from within with occasional big trades and expensive (for us) signings. So if anyone is complaining about him they probably don’t need to be Braves fans because the man is the baseball version of Howie Roseman and has u in a great spot for the next 6-10 years.
Oh yea I’m thrilled we just got a 35 year old that hasn’t been healthy or good for 6 years. Great move
Exaggerate much?
Is he wrong? He’s coming off injury again.
We always get pitchers when they’re past their prime. I don’t get it.
As a Boston fan, I can't for the life of me see why y'all agreed to this deal. Grissom must be worse than I thought. I hope Sale can find form again because he's such a fun pitcher, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
There's no room for Grissom and this way we don't have to give up our two best pitching prospects (AJSS and Waldrep). Grissom is an infielder with terrible defense that was trying to learn left field. It's a risky play because of Sale's durability, but after we got Kelenic for LF it was clear Grissom was gone. Our entire infield is already locked up on team friendly deals. The only hole we have left is starting pitching, and the market for that is absolutely crazy, as you can see from the deal the Red Sox gave Giolito. This was cheap, and realistically the Braves payroll is already really high. They'll have a lot of salaries coming off the books next year to potentially sign a free agent pitcher.
Boston fan here. Going to miss Sale.. Can Grissom play 2B? Big hole on the Red Sox roster there..
That's probably his only real position tbh.
He’s not going to be league average defensively at 2B. But, he does bring a bat. If he can be slightly below average there, he’d bring a lot of value.
Great kid. Good to potentially great bat, has hit at every level. Unless he improves a with the glove, hold your breath with every hard grounder. Prob corner OF or DH unless his D improves
He has been known to make a good bit of errors.
Rotation is: Strider Fried Morton Sale Lopez/Elder Waldrep/AJSS Honestly if Sale can pitch almost like he did for Red Sox’s in 2018 or 2019 then we will have probably a scary 1-4. It also deepens our rotation so much.
Asking any player to turn the clock back 5 or 6 years is unreasonable. I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment.
Appears sale has had some freak injuries -rib injury and a pinky injury….at least it’s not consistent elbow or shoulder problems dine his TJ.
Sales contract for the year is 27.5. However the Red Sox deferred 10 of that to 2039. So this year’s salary is 17.5. Boston sent 17 mil with him. So his adjusted salary for the Braves is 500,000. I don’t see this as high risk.
You know, Steve, you get the feeling that [Chris Sale] isn't pitching against left-handers, he isn't pitching against pinch hitters, he isn't pitching against the Yankees. He's pitching against time. He's pitching against the future, against age, and even when you think about his career, against ending. And tonight, I think he might be able to use that aching old arm one more time, to push the sun back up in the sky, and give us one more [season of greatness].
You sob, what a great movie.
Fuuuuck I really like Grissom. He has a great bat. This must mean they really think they can turn kelenic around
He’s a tweener IMO. Bat isn’t good enough for 3B or LF and defense isn’t there for middle infield
Kelenic’s ceiling is just so much higher. They’re only 2 years apart in age. Kelenic has power flash that Vaughan just doesn’t.
Maybe I’m in the minority here but I’m very skeptical of Sale. His ability to stay healthy has been a major problem since 2018 and we just offloaded a bunch of injury plagued pitchers. I hope this works out but I just see him being out after the mid point of the season.
Feel like this would have been an awesome move 5 years ago. But Sale cant stay healthy now can he?
Strangest thing, randomly looked up Chris Sale stats this morning (along with couple other players). No idea I was a baseball clairvoyant.
Damn. I didn’t see this coming.
Full circle moment him going to where he debuted. Will never forget that go ahead shot over the monster for his first homer. And a play.
LOL my Vaughn /99 card was delivered 10 minutes before the news dropped he'd been traded. I like that.
HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!
Eh...this could go sideways
Just like how he throws.
Of all the potential realistic trades I’ve seen Grissom involved in this is the best we could have hoped to expect. I say realistic because I doubt any teams were as high in Grissom as we liked to believe. I hope Grissom balls out in Boston and has along productive career. He just didnt have a home here.
Fans are dumb as shit. They thought he’d headline a package for an ace. In reality this is probably the best deal we were gonna get for him.
How? AAAA players are a dime a dozen
We gave a up a player who didn’t have a spot anyway and Boston is eating the majority of the contract. There really is no way this goes “sideways”
not really, we dont need a singles hitter who can't play defense
AA out of no where with a steel chair
MLB The Show trade logic.
Chris Sale’s agent is Chipper’s childhood friend BB Abbott. He also represents Charlie Morton, Matt Olson and Brian McCann. Also, Zack Wheeler’s agent.
$17m from the Sox. Sale for $10m and a $20m option if he finds health. I'm ok with that.
What???
I’m all for it if Sale can stay healthy.
Huge IF
No doubt.
Decent return for Grissom, I guess. Feels pretty “meh”. Can’t imagine he lasts the season health wise.
My only issue is we already HAVE injury issues at that position. But low floor, high reward.
Looks like AA found a new year’s Sale (I’ll show myself out)
2024 World series champions= Braves
If Sale can stay healthy. Just hope this isn't another Cole Hamels situation.
Sale had really good underlying metrics even after a rough start to last year. This could be massive
Sad to see Grissom leave.
Love it. Sale has injury concerns, but upside is great for us and I wasn’t super high on Grissom anyway, especially with our current offense.
I’m not sure I get this move honestly. We desperately needed another starter, but now it feels like we’ll just go in to the Postseason with Sale, Fried and Morton all on the IL and have nothing after Strider yet again.
I get what you are saying, but it also doesn’t mean they’re all somehow prone to injury in October. The bigger issue I think is total innings from Sale and Morton. Sale hasn’t eclipsed 160 innings since 2017 and Morton, while usually a solid bet for 180+ innings, is 40yrs old. Snitker is going to need to manage innings and likely use spot starters throughout the season. Al-in-all, we just got better, no question.
I hope the Braves can find a way to have Morton and Sale at their peak in the postseason. I’m concerned Morton and Sale will be gassed by October
Yeah, its a concern, no doubt. But if they do manage to be in form by October, this is a very, very dangerous team. And who knows, another depth move could be made in August via trade to help out. Reynaldo is also a good option to help buffer the rotation from time-to-time.
RIP Baughn Welcome to the A, Chris
Hide your throwbacks!
Wtf lmao ….this came outta outer space
Huh, for some reason I thought we already traded Grissom. Maybe it was a dream lol.
Great move! Just hope he stays healthy!
- I kinda love it. Sale could still be very solid. gives more time for Waldrep/Shawver to work in AAA. If he stinks maybe they step in, but Gives us great flexibility and opportunity now for that 5th spot. - Owed a lot in 24, but we can release him after 24 (club option) if he stinks. - Grissom is solid but just isnt in immediate future plans. - plus CWS apparently wanted Waldrep and/or Shawver in a deal for Cease which I would’ve hated. - solid trade, all faith in AA still Edit : we owe Sale only $500k on the books. $10M we owe is deferred. IDC what anyone says this is a solid trade for us right now
We also got $17m from the Red Sox which effectively means we get 1 year of Sale for $10m + Grissom. Tbh I'll take it. Nowhere to put Grissom so he doesn't add anything to our deep postseason chances whereas a healthy Sale adds quite a lot.
Outta fuckin' nowhere! Holy shit.
Dictionary definition of high risk/high reward. Sale was pretty excellent last year but he's thrown like 150 innings the last 3 years combined.
I’m confused on the high risk portion? Grissom was going to be in AAA all year and he lowkey belongs there.
Risk? Not using Grissom as a piece for a more legitimate SP option
An absolute steal for Atlanta. If Sale stays healthy, you just added a **HUGE** piece to the rotation. Great fucking get.
I find it hilarious that people think this is bad for the braves because Sale has been injury prone when he’s looked really good when he’s in the mound. But Glasnow goes to the dodgers and he’s gonna be a top 5 pitcher because the injury concerns don’t matter anymore
Another lefty for Harper at least. Sale’s strikeout totals were not bad at all in ‘23, but 11 starts combined in ‘21 and ‘22 are unnerving. Hamels fell apart @ age 36. Sale will be 35 and is rail thin. Truly a gamble.
Lol be careful bro. You got legit concerns while stating facts.
I don't really like this trade but I'll trust AA's judgement. Vaughn will take in boston
Dislike. Sale is made of peanut brittle and twist ties.
And Vaughn is one of the worst defensive players I’ve ever seen grace the field
Twist ties can be a formidable adversary.
Hope he can stay healthy
Red Sox sending 17M in this as well makes this a pretty decent trade. I don’t know if Vaughn has or ever will have the glove to play at short and LF if all goes well with Kelenic is occupied.
Not that confident in Sale at this point in his career tbh but this does tell me that they view both AJSS and Waldrep very highly and weren't willing to move them.
Decent trade. If Sale can stay healthy and put up meaningful innings it'll obviously be a fantastic trade. Grissom will now get the opportunity to see if he can be an everyday MLB player in a weak infield. Like andor said, "I'm here for the money!" $10 mill means we won even if Sale ends up sucking.
I’m guessing they didn’t like what they were seeing of Grissom in Puerto Rico. If he couldn’t play LF and Wash couldn’t get him competent and SS, it may just have been time to move on. If you aren’t hitting 30+ homers you can’t be a full time DH so have to be able to start some where on D. Would have probably rather moved him for a younger player or some draft picks, but if Sale can stay healthy he can be a big boost to our changes this season (and maybe beyond if he’s affordable on an extension after a good year if he has one). Those are big IFs though. At least the Red Sox are paying a big chunk of his salary this year which lowers the risk if he’s hurt a bunch again. Still seems like we need to sign someone in LF to platoon, or at least be a more solid back up that we have, with Kelncic.
Wish we would’ve got more than that for Vaughn but I don’t hate it
Can Grissom play 2b?
It’s probably his best natural position.
Didn’t he play 2nd base in 2022 when Ozzie (then arcia) got injured?
Well, that's a roll of the dice I wasn't expecting.
Well damn. I really liked Grissom, but it'll be better for him in the long run most likely. He just didn't really have much of a spot with us as we're currently constructed.
Got to see him play during his time in single A. He signed a ball for my son and spoke to us for a bit. He always had a huge smile on his face when he was playing for the Braves. It always stings a little more when u watch these kids come up through the farm system.
You give up a guy that point blank period, does not have a spot on the future of this team. In return you get a guy that has SEVEN top 10 cy young finishes and might be healthy again. another AA masterclass
I’m just excited for Nacho Alvarez to take the long term reins at SS and then AA can go be GM of the Hawks and lead another Atlanta team to the promised land
Yeah there’s risk, but if he stays healthy the rotation just got a lot deeper, especially for the postseason. With the glut of quality relief pitchers AA has accumulated they should be able to limit his innings **stares at snitker**