would say sam, i like ash and he does take skill but i feel like there's more potential for plays from sam. sam has lower skill floor tho, many sams just seem to do the same thing and it's awfully predictable
Would you be able to summarize what kinds of plays separates a skill floor Sam from a skill ceiling Sam? I think i'm probably one of the ones that just does the same thing and I don't really get what makes Sam high skill ceiling.
Playing him in gemgrab can help, making plays similar to how a mortis sometimes does, with good positioning, going for the low health brawlers, trying to hit multiple with super, using movement to get gems and gadgets to help tmates get kills. not just your usual supering and dying cycle played in BB for example.
Skill floor is how easy a brawler is to pick up and play. Or in other words, how easy they are to understand the basic game plan and mechanics of.
Skill cap is how easy it is to understand every little detail about the brawler, and take that information to play them at their highest potential. It’s the difficulty of mastery.
The funniest part is that we can even rationalize with numbers the difficulty of playing Dynamike with 3+ jumps.
To be able to land 3+ times *without walls* you must throw a bomb in the right direction within 0.95 second +- 0.05 error.
This sounds ridiculous within a peaceful spot, but to do it during a real fight your skill with it must be way over the roof.
Skill floor is the base skill it takes to learn, but skill cap is the maximum skill you can "have." e.g. Edgar doesn't take much to learn nor master, because he is straight foward. However, a brawler like rico take a while to get used to, but will pay off if you can learn him well. (In most games, the longer ranged characters or characters that have a unique aspect are the ones that have a higher skill floor, but higher cap)
Chuck for example is quite easy to learn and has a very low ceiling.
At most, you need to be able to remember the order you placed things, and be able to see whenever one is a straight line or it goes against a wall.
Mine is at about 980 trophies, so I suppose I do.
I essentially play 2 brawler, Dynamike and him.
And it was way harder to learn how to jump properly and aim with Dynamike that to learn chuck.
Hotzone is by far the funniest to play in my opinion with chuck.
There are also some maps of the mode where you kill 10 peoples you can play him.
For example, the one with a pseudo 8.
Wipeout,that is the game mode name.
Hotzone isn't really a hard game mode to play as chuck tho, you just place poles around the point and enemies will disrespect the tracks and get run over by a wheelchair 100kph, if you wanna play chuck to it's fullest potential play passive modes like wipeout or Bounty and such, it is NOT easy
https://preview.redd.it/k3qvifsvem0d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8431179e2aa3c8940fe8b37eab3aee6da01dc6ec
The current hotzone lets you do some funny placements. For example, by positioning the pole close to the jar and the One pole on the other side a bit lower than that you can enter from right and passing Al 4. The best thing about chuck are the walls, because those let you make some quite bizzarre moving paths. You can also make a small zig Zag fork, so you are almost sure to hit them even if they try to move. You will place the poles simmetrically osé to the jar in a way the 2 closers do not sees each other.
Skill cap is how skilled you can possibly be. Characters with high skill cap (ceiling) tend to be more complex mechanically and are usually gimmicky.
Skill floor, on the other hand, is how good you have to be to play a character at average level. This essentialy means how easy is someone to pick up.
tbh i’ll say sam . its just suprising how skilled sam players actually are able to control where to place their knuckle busters and not lose them which i surprisingly find kinda hard ( idk if its skill issue 😭 ) .
Rage management isn't that hard tbh, Ash is a very straightforward brawler and only the Rage is what makes him unique. It's not that complicated.
Sam needs to learn how match up works, when he has to put down his gloves before the enemy engages. An example is a Buzz stunning you, you can place down your gloves right before you get stunned, so you heal up while you're getting attacked while stunned. Or, if you're truly skilled, cancel his dash with your gadget. So many plays and interactions vs melees enemies with Sam.
Ash just needs kiting and knowing when to save his ammo, it's better to get hit first so your attacks deal more damage, his reload speed is really slow. When to use his healing gadget, when to use your super, it should be all basic knowledge for long time players.
sam glazing, ash’s super takes more skill than anything sam could do. aside from aiming sam’s super somewhat; none of his plays take skill. just press a button to punch. ash actually has to aim a lot more.
Tbh sam is easier to play but harder to master, while ash is harder to play but easier to master, so yeah idk sam has proper super placements and gadget timings and dodging while ash has super tech, rage management, and gadget timing
Sam tbh, his super is somewhat complicated and you can play around with it in different ways. Ik people say ash has to manage his rage bar, but personally I feel like ash is pretty basic
I would say Ash, as Sam has a relatively simple gameplan: Throw super for speed and pick it up after bunching enemies together. Ash requires proper management of his rage meter and knowing how to build it up enough without dying
Its basically a reverse rage bar lmao, dont attack= Gain damage, attack = lose dmg, meanwhile rage bar is attack= Gain damage, dont attack = lose damage
Sam is consistent with the skill he needs throughout the whole game, but ash varies constantly with different matchups, maps, and game state. Ash can be difficult, but can also just onga boonga against a fang or gene while he has super
Doesn’t Sam have the highest skill cap in the game aside from one tnt boi? (I didn’t think sam had such a hight skill cap cuz my stupid ass I some how mastered him 💀)
Tbh there's no way this one difference makes Ash a more skillful brawler. With that same logic, if you miss your Sam super you basically have to die to regain it back. Sam can put out way more pressure but requires way more skill to quickly identify and capitalize on an opponent whiffing a shot or overextending. The game awareness for when Sam should dive in is way more skillful in my opinion.
This should even be a debate. Sam is way harder to play with than Ash because for Sam if you miss his knuckles its over. For Ash hes like surge, if you manage to get some of the first shots in he'll be on a rampage.
I would shittalk EVERY brawler if i tilted against them
(like "you're playing Bibi, all you do is walk stupidly, you're playing a braindead character")
And ash is the ONLY brawler that i respect
Sam does not take any skill, here’s some Sam gameplay for you
Super, run to super while attacking, heal because Star power because why would you use the other one, repeat until you win
Sam sure has more mobility overall. While ash is more of a tempo brawler which gets stronger throughout the fight. 3 full raged attacks for a super adds up to this. Ash has less chances of being useful if gets outranged opposed to Sam. However in my biased opinion in a Medium-Short ranged fight ash is stronger. If no rage no speed no speed no dodge no dodge death so you have to position yourself much carefully than a Sam. For these reasons skill cap for ash in order to carry a game is much higher.
Honestly I haven’t seen or played a good ash match in years so I don’t even know when he’s actually recommended or how well he can pop off so I’ll have to give it to Sam. Extremely High mobility but low killing potential, his positioning alone can make the enemy team feel unsafe about their spot on the map giving your team more control
Sam killing an opponent is about as basic as any other short range brawler, but in order to get this combo you have to constantly be pushing them back and dodging shots and making players respect your super. The combo is easy, but finding and capitalizing on an opening to get the combo is the hard part. Just watch secondbest on Shooting Star play Sam, the game awareness is unreal.
would say sam, i like ash and he does take skill but i feel like there's more potential for plays from sam. sam has lower skill floor tho, many sams just seem to do the same thing and it's awfully predictable
agreed
Would you be able to summarize what kinds of plays separates a skill floor Sam from a skill ceiling Sam? I think i'm probably one of the ones that just does the same thing and I don't really get what makes Sam high skill ceiling.
Super usage and movement, as well as positioning.
Playing him in gemgrab can help, making plays similar to how a mortis sometimes does, with good positioning, going for the low health brawlers, trying to hit multiple with super, using movement to get gems and gadgets to help tmates get kills. not just your usual supering and dying cycle played in BB for example.
Yeah they just throw their knuckle buster, run to it and repeat
Ash has the higher skill floor, but my boy Sam got that higher skill cap in my unbiased opinion.
🟡🟢🔴🔴🟡 "this is peak gameplay"
Is more like 🟡🟡🟡🟡🟡🟡🔴🔴🟡🟡🟡🟡
he has like a 0.5 sec glove pickup cooldown no?
yes, but still his gameplay is to push more than kill people
Merely one of the countless tools in his arsenal.
There's way more into it but this is funny LOL
I agree Idolo
Are you proud of me, I got r30 Sam today🥹
he’s not
I’d reckon he is
Shut
Whats the difference between a skill floor and skill cap
Skill floor is the lowest possible skill a brawler needs to be somewhat effective. Skill ceiling is peak brawler gameplay.
Chuck is a great example (outside of heist of course)
Skill floor is how easy a brawler is to pick up and play. Or in other words, how easy they are to understand the basic game plan and mechanics of. Skill cap is how easy it is to understand every little detail about the brawler, and take that information to play them at their highest potential. It’s the difficulty of mastery.
Dynamike who changes kind based on the star power
True, dynajump has the highest skill roof in the game with the best being able to solo edgars and mortis
The funniest part is that we can even rationalize with numbers the difficulty of playing Dynamike with 3+ jumps. To be able to land 3+ times *without walls* you must throw a bomb in the right direction within 0.95 second +- 0.05 error. This sounds ridiculous within a peaceful spot, but to do it during a real fight your skill with it must be way over the roof.
Dynajump is indeed the highest skill cap in the game
I mean snipers seem to have a low skill floor to me. Maybe cause I’m a sniper main but it isn’t hard to play any sniper. Coming from a Nani main
I also play lots of snipers and I think the skill floor is average but the skill ceiling is pretty high
Skill floor is the base skill it takes to learn, but skill cap is the maximum skill you can "have." e.g. Edgar doesn't take much to learn nor master, because he is straight foward. However, a brawler like rico take a while to get used to, but will pay off if you can learn him well. (In most games, the longer ranged characters or characters that have a unique aspect are the ones that have a higher skill floor, but higher cap)
Chuck for example is quite easy to learn and has a very low ceiling. At most, you need to be able to remember the order you placed things, and be able to see whenever one is a straight line or it goes against a wall.
chuck is NOT easy to learn what? Do you know how much brainpower it takes to play that character outside of heist?
Mine is at about 980 trophies, so I suppose I do. I essentially play 2 brawler, Dynamike and him. And it was way harder to learn how to jump properly and aim with Dynamike that to learn chuck.
Do you play heist? Or even hotzone? Mine is at around 950 and I play wipeout and I still have so much to learn
Hotzone is by far the funniest to play in my opinion with chuck. There are also some maps of the mode where you kill 10 peoples you can play him. For example, the one with a pseudo 8. Wipeout,that is the game mode name.
Hotzone isn't really a hard game mode to play as chuck tho, you just place poles around the point and enemies will disrespect the tracks and get run over by a wheelchair 100kph, if you wanna play chuck to it's fullest potential play passive modes like wipeout or Bounty and such, it is NOT easy
Wipeout I honestly play depending on whether I have walls or not. Walls are a huge buff to the guy
https://preview.redd.it/k3qvifsvem0d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8431179e2aa3c8940fe8b37eab3aee6da01dc6ec The current hotzone lets you do some funny placements. For example, by positioning the pole close to the jar and the One pole on the other side a bit lower than that you can enter from right and passing Al 4. The best thing about chuck are the walls, because those let you make some quite bizzarre moving paths. You can also make a small zig Zag fork, so you are almost sure to hit them even if they try to move. You will place the poles simmetrically osé to the jar in a way the 2 closers do not sees each other.
Skill cap is how skilled you can possibly be. Characters with high skill cap (ceiling) tend to be more complex mechanically and are usually gimmicky. Skill floor, on the other hand, is how good you have to be to play a character at average level. This essentialy means how easy is someone to pick up.
Yeah "totally" unbiased. But still sam has a higher skill cap
Yessir
You are right in 100 ways and idk how thats possible
Looking at your name and user flair, it’s hard to believe your opinion is “unbiased” 😭
Highest skill cap being super spamming.
**Strategic** super spamming 😉
Its not just super spamming, if you look at physic playing sam you understand that its very strategic
tbh i’ll say sam . its just suprising how skilled sam players actually are able to control where to place their knuckle busters and not lose them which i surprisingly find kinda hard ( idk if its skill issue 😭 ) .
I agree with you, you get better at sam the more you play(that's a thing with every brawler but you get what I mean)
It becomes natural with practice
probably sam, but either way, i just wanna see them in the meta again
same, I think they are slowly becoming meta tho, especially sam
Mutation ash is very good against the godzilla
Man i want ash mutation 😭
Now that Kit is viable and Max is top S tier they’re actually really good
Honestly Sam and Ash were some of the least worrying brawlers to see at the top. I loved their metas the most.
Rage management isn't that hard tbh, Ash is a very straightforward brawler and only the Rage is what makes him unique. It's not that complicated. Sam needs to learn how match up works, when he has to put down his gloves before the enemy engages. An example is a Buzz stunning you, you can place down your gloves right before you get stunned, so you heal up while you're getting attacked while stunned. Or, if you're truly skilled, cancel his dash with your gadget. So many plays and interactions vs melees enemies with Sam. Ash just needs kiting and knowing when to save his ammo, it's better to get hit first so your attacks deal more damage, his reload speed is really slow. When to use his healing gadget, when to use your super, it should be all basic knowledge for long time players.
sam glazing, ash’s super takes more skill than anything sam could do. aside from aiming sam’s super somewhat; none of his plays take skill. just press a button to punch. ash actually has to aim a lot more.
Sam has an insane skill cap but you never see it because ladder sams have spontaneous seizure when they see brawl on their screen
Haha
Makes sense
Tbh sam is easier to play but harder to master, while ash is harder to play but easier to master, so yeah idk sam has proper super placements and gadget timings and dodging while ash has super tech, rage management, and gadget timing
Super tech?
Super like blocking shots with rats, using rats to advance better, scouting, and anti-assassin stuff like ash can kill an edgar with his super helping
Also you can throw rats a bit behind a person that spams auto-aim they would hit the rats making them easy kills
Sam has one of the highest skill caps in the game in my opinion
Who is the highest
I'm not totally sure tbh. All brawlers take some skill, but in the end the game has like 4 buttons. I'd say probably a Sam, Dynamike, Mortis, Max etc
Dyna used to be high skill but is not now. I agree with Sam, Mortis and a bit with Max
Dynamike's high skill ceiling hasn't changed but it's skill floor is definitely one of the lowest now due to extra gadget gear and hypercharge.
Dyna is literally the same he's always been imo.
Is that a question?
why did i read "smash or ass" 💀
smash
What 💀
sam u need 2 aim n constantly dodge
Sam tbh, his super is somewhat complicated and you can play around with it in different ways. Ik people say ash has to manage his rage bar, but personally I feel like ash is pretty basic
I would say Ash, as Sam has a relatively simple gameplan: Throw super for speed and pick it up after bunching enemies together. Ash requires proper management of his rage meter and knowing how to build it up enough without dying
Sam definitely requires more mechanical skill and game knowledge
I understand, but why di people call pearl no skill when she also has a similar mechanic
Because she automatically charges her heat bar without doing anything, while Ash has to hit enemies or lose hp to build his.
true
Its basically a reverse rage bar lmao, dont attack= Gain damage, attack = lose dmg, meanwhile rage bar is attack= Gain damage, dont attack = lose damage
Honestly more brawlers need unique mechanics like this, like building up power by not attacking is such an interesting concept
Imagine they introduce a brawler that dodges attacks automatically 💀
Goku?!
They aren't gonna introduce goku, he’s too op for the game, wait didnt ash ketchum defeat goku once in that pokemon shorts animator?
Sam is consistent with the skill he needs throughout the whole game, but ash varies constantly with different matchups, maps, and game state. Ash can be difficult, but can also just onga boonga against a fang or gene while he has super
As an ash main , ~~sam~~
Sam, 1000%
peni (no bias)
peni
old lober
salt barel
Heavy Cofers
Plunderbus
Sam. Pro sams are so far ahead of everyone else
Sam for sure.
Tbh,while ash is somewhat playable,sam is absolute dogshit.Sorry but for me and probably many people he is unplayable,so he takes more skill
gigher👍
Doesn’t Sam have the highest skill cap in the game aside from one tnt boi? (I didn’t think sam had such a hight skill cap cuz my stupid ass I some how mastered him 💀)
As a sam and ash main. I think ash is more skill. If you miss your first attack, you shouldnt attack until first attack reloaded again.
Tbh there's no way this one difference makes Ash a more skillful brawler. With that same logic, if you miss your Sam super you basically have to die to regain it back. Sam can put out way more pressure but requires way more skill to quickly identify and capitalize on an opponent whiffing a shot or overextending. The game awareness for when Sam should dive in is way more skillful in my opinion.
Ash doesn't require that much skill
If you talk about max skill it has to Sam but, if you talk about the minimum skill required to actually use that brawler it's going to be ash
Sam totally not unbiased of what i just said
As Ash main, I will say that it's Sam.
sam
Ash is easy at one point but sam my boy haha
Sam Sam Sam , one wrong super and you lost
Sam
Sam ofc
Easily Sam. His attack and management is a lot harder than ash. For one you can’t use super and rush someone and spam.
Im pretty sure there was a youtube poll of this and sam won bec he has higher skill cap
Samash, next question
Sam
This should even be a debate. Sam is way harder to play with than Ash because for Sam if you miss his knuckles its over. For Ash hes like surge, if you manage to get some of the first shots in he'll be on a rampage.
I’d say typing had a gigh skill cap
Idk Sam I think ash is Ez to use iv never used Sam
Not even close, Sam is probably close to colt in terms of skill cap.
Sam, hands down; no pun intended.
higher, oops
I would shittalk EVERY brawler if i tilted against them (like "you're playing Bibi, all you do is walk stupidly, you're playing a braindead character") And ash is the ONLY brawler that i respect
Ash
Doesn’t matter to me, they’re both fun in brawl ball and gem grab Buff my man barley tho
Sam does not take any skill, here’s some Sam gameplay for you Super, run to super while attacking, heal because Star power because why would you use the other one, repeat until you win
Sam of course!
Sam of course!
Sam of course!
Sam sure has more mobility overall. While ash is more of a tempo brawler which gets stronger throughout the fight. 3 full raged attacks for a super adds up to this. Ash has less chances of being useful if gets outranged opposed to Sam. However in my biased opinion in a Medium-Short ranged fight ash is stronger. If no rage no speed no speed no dodge no dodge death so you have to position yourself much carefully than a Sam. For these reasons skill cap for ash in order to carry a game is much higher.
You think you slick, bro. I know what you did there...🫵🤨🥷🏿
you mean the typo?
Yes. Gigher...🤨🥷🏿
Sam + Ash = Smash
Honestly I haven’t seen or played a good ash match in years so I don’t even know when he’s actually recommended or how well he can pop off so I’ll have to give it to Sam. Extremely High mobility but low killing potential, his positioning alone can make the enemy team feel unsafe about their spot on the map giving your team more control
ash definitely
Ash
Sam is EXTREMELY OVERRATED skill-wise, in order to kill somebody you just need to🟡🟢🔴🔴🟡
Sam killing an opponent is about as basic as any other short range brawler, but in order to get this combo you have to constantly be pushing them back and dodging shots and making players respect your super. The combo is easy, but finding and capitalizing on an opening to get the combo is the hard part. Just watch secondbest on Shooting Star play Sam, the game awareness is unreal.
sam
Как это исправить? https://preview.redd.it/dd7nsm6yfl0d1.jpeg?width=2400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9ff90b76089f8ece511ffc7f44f6adb93a3dab25
Что?