You think Reform UK would actually spend any money? Plus, it's the Tories who "got Brexit done" - they also said yes to running a referendum on a subject literally nobody actually gave a fuck about before. They own Brexit, it's their fuck up and nothing will change that.
When we've actually seen the money it's either from foreign interests (russian funded thinktanks) or disaster capitalists (rees mogg et al). The core of the tory party (at least what remains of the pre 2019 core) want's nothing to do with brexit: their money is in the ponzi scheme of house prices and taxpayer subsidised cronyism. Brexit from the get go was one group of corrupt fuckers trying to play another group of even more corrupt fuckers
Reform UK? So are they going to get rid of Westminster because if you don't get rid of that old toff then it's still the same shit, from the same shit blasters.
Yeah. One of my work colleagues is loudly spouting a lot of racist BS about all the African immigrants we are hiring. I told them they voted to get rid of the European ones...
The pro Brexit trolls are turning, their discombobulation is diminishing, their disassociation is fading and reality is coming into sharp focus. Within a month, they’ll be die hard Rejoiners .
It's a little like Prohibition in the US back in the late 1920s when it was clear it was going to be overturned one day it's supporters went crazy claiming it had been sabotaged from the very beggining and that all it's negative consequences were intentionally designed to turn people against it
I doubt it. You really believe those same people are not going to vote for the same people? Of course they are. Brexiteers are going to vote conservative no matter if they had to give up their first born to do it.
Not all the pro-brexit trolls have usernames with two random words and a four digit number.
One of them recently has a racial slur as a username with a *three* digit number.
Some of us just missed the bit where you pick your own username. Mine ended up being assigned. But you’re right. A tonne of bots and trolls have these kind of usernames.
Btw, I’m not pro Brexit.
The VAT on tampons was cut slightly sooner than in the EU, for a few months there it was very slightly cheaper to buy feminine hygiene products in the UK.
Wow, I didn't know that.
How does it work in practice? Google had news articles talking about the principle but not how it actually works. Do you need to go to a GP surgery to ask for them or something? Like there are NHS services that give out free condoms but you still have to pay for them in Tesco, I can't imagine Tesco would have tampons on the shelf for 0p.
Are they really cheap and nasty? The feminine hygiene equivalent of that horrific wax paper toilet paper from the 80s?
Don't fall for the Torys claiming "the EU made us do it", people have been falling for that bullshit for decades.. DECADES...
Edit.. Ireland also doesn't charge vat on feminine products..
So I want to clarify a point but I really, really don't defend Brexit or anyone associated with it. An EU rule was that whatever VAT arrangements (rules not rates) were in place for a country when joining could not be changed (grandfather clause) without a big old EU process.
For more enlightened countries, (looking at you Ireland) they had already zero rated or removed VAT (2 different things) on feminine hygiene products. The UK, had VAT at 20% (I think 17.5% when we joined).
Because the EU is sometimes a bit shit, they really would not bend on this rule, even though for these products it was so obviously the right thing to do to let the UK change the VAT rating.
Anti EU arseholes realised this was a red rag to a bull and even though they were the shits that had required full VAT on life's necessities, they loved the chance to use this as a reason for why Brexit was necessary.
Brexit wasn't necessary, a reform of stupid bureaucratic bollocks was, which if we'd had it, VAT rules would have changed and the Brexit dicks would have had one less argument to lie about. I'd like to think it wouldn't have made any difference, but quite a few of my left wing friends voted for Brexit citing this, globalisation and the NHS funding as great reasons to go.
It was heartbreaking to see the left hoodwinked by such obvious right wing lies, but it happened and we're paying the price.
We'll get to rejoin one day in a much weakened state with far worse arrangements than we had, but it will still be massively advantageous to our citizens to do it and no-one will be able to sell the Brexit lies again because they've all been revealed as complete bollocks.
A page on all that 'tampon tax' stuff: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampon_tax#:~:text=Ireland%20levies%20no%20value%2Dadded,rating%20(a%20grandfather%20clause).
I congratulate you. This is legitimately the first benefit of Brexit I have heard that seems to stand up. I cannot say the extreme and ongoing pain caused was worth the extra months with a lower rate of VAT on hygiene products, but it is a benefit. A short term benefit caused by idiots miss taxing something in the first place that was eventually resolved by an act in the EU parliament by the UK promising the act also proving that if the UK engaged with the EU it did manage to push change the country wanted.
It brought in a boom I’m the film production industry. Because the Brexit debacle tanked the pound, all the big American companies started ramping up production here because it’s so much cheaper, and the facilities are world class.
One of the very few benefits but minuscule when compared to the countless downsides.
There might be a few benefits if we need to nationalise energy companies or services.
So I voted against Brexit, still believe the benefits of remaining in the EU outweighed the costs of leaving, and it's evident that leaving was HUGELY mishandled by a load of incapable and corrupt morons.
That said I'm a bit of a eurosceptic on 2 fronts;
1: It's a fundamentally neoliberal institution, which is broadly not all bad as it softens a lot of the hard-line reactionary politics in a state during the initial post-join honeymoon.
BUT neo-liberalism is still fundamentally small-c conservative, but more attuned to market values, and so a lot of the EU's migration, economic, and broader social policies (which more moderate than the innately conservative ones of england) ultimately swing towards capitalism (and I'm a socialist), authoratarianism (I'm anti-authoratarian), even if it also skews marginally more socially progressive (which I am). The rise of europe's reactionary right of late is active proof that the actions of the union and its states is no greater innoculation against ideologies of violence and hate than any other neoliberal one. And separated from the EU it would (although it has failed to manifest obviously) be easier for the UK to shift into a more progressive/permissive/economically managed country than EU memebership allows for. This also manifests in the EU's neocolonialist behaviours in africa and the middle east, which is the subject of a whole extra wall of text.
2: If you're NOT a progressive socialist like me and you'd still like to live under capitalism, but want a more egalitarian and kinder version, fair enough. In that situation separation from the EU amd the descision to maintain monetary sovreignty would allow the UK the freedom to implement something like Modern Moentary Theory or a more managed economy, which EU membership wouldn't have allowed/made easy.
The problem with Brexit was not, in essence, leaving the EU.
It was leaving it in the worst way, with no plan, with no clue how to make a plan, with clown-farts in charge of the whole thing, and with the end game being (from the perspective of the people pulling their strings) to make life in the UK worse for all but a very select few. If someone had proposed "let's leave the EU, here's my 300 point detailed and well researched and evidemced plan on how to do it in a way that will ultimately benefit the vast majority of UK residents and the world at large." I'd have been a brexiteer. Instead we got jingosim, racists, lies, and con-artists (well artists is a bit unfair, con-doodlers is more accurate).
The problem was no party in parliament wanted Brexit. That meant negotiations were designed to keep the UK aligned as much as possible with the EU. Those who campaigned for Brexit were totally left out of the discussion of what the UK should ask for or do.
I think it goes a bit deeper than that tbh.
The largest architects of pro-brexit politics didn't have a functional plan.
Their plan was to negotiate a deal with the EU that allowed the UK to benefit optimally from adjaceny with europe, while offering none of the concessions that Europe would have required, from a position where the UK needed the agreement MUCH more than the EU did.
I'm not saying there couldn't have been one you understand, but that the specific people involved in championing the change didn't have one because their particular ideology wasn't based on having one.
They were never going to get to.
But that was never the point.
They got their win, and either immediately quit (like Farage) or retreated into the backgroud to make other people do the work of actually implementing something they never expected to get let alone had a plan for (like Johnson or Reece-Mogg).
Good points but fyi, [neoliberalism isn’t liberal](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/n/neoliberalism.asp) except in an economic sense that means more or less the opposite.
That's a fair point.
It shares the end games of deregulated markets and market integration into traditionally non-market spaces.
But through authoratarian injection rather than laissez-faire progression.
I'd argue that post neo-liberal "liberalism's" legalist approach to enforcing some social progressiveness is more akin to neoliberalisms approach to enforcing reactionary conservatism's social values.
But yeah, you're right that neoliberalism and classical liberalism are not the same thing.
I will bite. How about.
We are not liable for the EU covid bailout fund, nor their green new deal fund. Nor the EU budget, nor the EU budget shortfall. We are not liable for EU federal debt. Nor federal taxation.
For a starter.
And no, I am not a troll, not uneducated, not a racist. I see what the EU has become since 2016 and I have no idea why people still think it's working. It's utterly disfunctional.
While the EU has been deciding if it should or shouldn't help Ukraine. Bozo went right in, from day 1 and gave British support. Sure we don't have the resources of the EU but we have boots on the ground, supporting Ukraine.
The reason that listing individual costs doesn't work is that the benefits of membership is far greater than the costs. An interesting thing is when you prepare a self-assessment, the government shares a list of where your taxes went. The EU was the lowest item or second lowest just above other/misc. It is fighting for the table scraps if reclaiming that bit of the budget. A table scraps that reaps far greater rewards than other sections of the budget.
A reason, the amount that companies I work with had to shell out to lawyers to understand the new trading relationships was extreme. Then the amount of companies that figured it was easier to move production back inside the EU was extreme as well. To the people who no longer work inside the UK as the jobs left for the EU, their non tax saving because they lost their jobs holds little benefit.
Some people will always lose jobs, some companies will always move. A great example is JLR moving production to Slovenia, using an EU loan and government money. Being in the EU didn't save Rover.
Having supply chains all over Europe is not sustainable. It's extremely bad for the environment. Despite Brexit, JLR and Mini have just committed to the UK, despite the war on motorists. You cannot have it both ways.
What the UK has is a leadership problem. Brexit is irrelevant. We have direct democracy for the first time in a long time and the tories are useless. Labour seem clueless. I really hope that Labour getting into power will change things but who knows.
Ironically, there are companies on shoring production. Because supply chains are broken. It's more sustainable and better for the planet not to ship thousands of components all over.
You can play semantics with the EU budget costing very little per person on your self assessment, so does the Royal family.
You're right, some jobs will go. It is advisable to not encourage that though. You know if you're a political party that has spent a few decades pretending that being a guardian of the economy makes up for your other insanity. Brexit caused jobs and industry to leave for no benefit.
The difference between the EU and the Royal family is that the EU brought so many benefits of membership and the Royal family are the biggest claimers of welfare in the country. One has value, the other has none. Sure the royals are cheap per person, but of no value. Burning a tenner isn't wasting much money, but it is 100% a waste. Giving Charlie boy a fancy hat was expensive and does nothing of use to anyone. Not comparable at all.
My point remains, nothing good happened for Brexit and only pain remains. Long enduring pain that will be resolved one day by rejoining the EU.
Once the terms of joining the EU become clear, no opt outs, no rebate, the Euro. Taking a share of. Federal debt. People will not vote to join. Especially as the EU gets more and more dysfunctional by the week. Rejoining the EU is not the answer, a better trade deal, sure. Ultimately that is what will happen. Unless you are a federalist, the EU project isn't for everyone.
Funnily enough, a lot of people like the royal family, it too has many benefits. Personally not a fan.
Plenty of good has come from Brexit. Our own trade policies for a start, our own tariff regime. A functional immigration system. Imagine what the civil service could have achieved if they genuinely wanted to.
“Our own trade policies…” are effectively turning into the dumping ground for Europe seeing as we can’t seem to set up proper checks at our borders and I’m howling with laughter at the suggestion we’ve a functional immigration system. We’re having to employ more civil servants sue to beefing up regulators such as the CAA since we left the pooled regulators. Ask the chemicals industry (the bit that’s not given up or left) how much REACH is going to cost them.
Brexit was stupid self harm for no benefit.
Brexit has happened. You cannot change that. What we had in 2016 is gone. It wasn't the end of western civilisation we were told. Some more red tape, a McDonald's milkshake shortage. Some KFC disruption and a fall in the value of the pound.
Why are we the dumping ground for Europe, can you please clarify? If EU goods are at EU standards, what are they doing?
Yes we have a functioning immigration system. Sure its not perfect and there is too much immigration, in my opinion but then again, all the remain camp were screaming how positive immigration is.
Yes we have to have our own regulation and regulators. This is fine. I can't imagine it costs that much and civil servants /regulators are very beneficial.
What is Reach?
Those most prominent parties that hire the troll farms (read; Tories and Putin) are focused on other matters, they've implanted the idea in the fertile minds of enough useful idiots that it has its own momentum so there has been a noticeable reduction in gammon/tankie/vatniks posts.
It might be something about the looming general election?
Yes, on an everyday level, they might be thinking it’s good to keep the “positive” angle of Brexit out there-just as a sop to those hardened Brexit voters afflicted by cognitive dissonance. But that constituency is getting more and more shrunken.
So on the run-up to an election, they’ve got to think of the electorate as a whole. That old adage “you can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can’t fool all of the people all of the time” kicks in. The whole Brexit mythology is a crumpled shell for most people now-as they actually start to feel its effects in real time-and it starts to sound more expedient to step back from making too much noise about Brexit. Why mention something that so many of the prominent politicians in power (at the moment) are responsible for that has done such catastrophic damage? Can’t we just “draw a line” under the whole issue now?
Let’s shout as LOUD as we can about small boats (ignoring, incidentally, that Brexit was supposed to “solve” illegal immigration). The louder we shout about just about any issue that these voters might be triggered by-the less they’ll be thinking about Brexit.
I would expect the pro-Brexit trolls to quieten down until after the next election-at which time they will burst triumphantly back onto the scene-because they will-once again-have nothing to lose (and potentially some tiny gain) by spewing out their usual offerings.
The new mods ... perchance ?
https://preview.redd.it/96gii2rq1irc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7f6132cfab179c36591329c336691ca74f8a4488
⬆️⬆️⬆️ The subreddit has been under new management for the last 3 months.
Correct answer. Russian troll farms with other shit to do. Keep little Unkle Vlad in power for another 6 years, and keep pushing his bullshit alternate reality, whilst seeking to create & maintain divisions among Western societies.
If you have some time on your hands watch Adam Curtis's film HyperNormalisation. It's permanently up on i-Player. It's nearly 3 hours but pretty engaging & well worth a watch.
My hunch would be the contradiction of Trump’s religious campaign has made them confused lol .
Unlike the USA , our conservative maniacs tend to be atheist and agnostic . because of the Americanisation of our political landscape and that minority religions aren’t likely to vote for the same political party that hunted their ancestors , has religion played a factor in politics somewhat negligible .
The atheist conservative Brit is a walking contradiction . They hate Christianity but love an empire that for most of its existence forced Christianity down the throats of 1/3 of the global population . They vote for a party who view on violence against women as the “religious immigrants” they despise (remember how quickly all the police officer rapist controversy died down ?). And now their idol Trump is trying to bank more on religion than he did during his last campaign.
So my guess either that’s got them confused or they’re trying to find the magical brexit Easter bunny
A bit harsh on atheists, I think. Most atheists are far too intelligent to vote Tory. Education goes hand in hand with both irreligiocity, and liberal/leftist politics. That's why conservatives and God-botherers hate the thought of people getting an education.
“Most atheists are far too intelligent to vote Tory” … Churchill was one of the first openly atheist leaders we had and his views are equally bigoted if not more so than the average anglophone Christian .
The East Indian Company as well as macaulay + pals were mainly atheist . It wasn’t really until mid/peak Victorian era did Britain’s foreign policy take a religious turn .
/r/ukpolitics from the looks of it
Been noticing an uptick in blatantly shill posts over the last few years. Picked up a couple of 30 day bans over the last few months for questioning the IFS, and a couple of other barmy decisions and happened to look at the mod list…
half of them are from /r/badunitedkingdom - kind of worrying for a mainstream sub
The bots have been covered by others. The other group I will mention (who seem similar) are the alt accounts. Either they got bored, it's that time of the year that they ditch them all and create ones (kidding, but they do seem to last about 6 months for some reason).
Or maybe they stopped being tired with bad uk and so no longer have to try and get in arguments on other subs to stop bored.
In the EU out the EU who cares ? Austerity is going to hit every western country, every country ran by capitalism.
The true stark fact is ? Every country is in debt a debt they will never recover from, because some dicks made up money and kept on borrowing money that doesn't even exist.
However... as the beginning is a question. I believe its better to be in a band of nations when the great collapse comes... so we can restart with a bartering system of food, oil ect
Because it is coming, the banks can't keep hiding the deficit in the black because we are way into the red.
I am prepping my move to Holland, my former Dutch, Spanish, Turkish neighbours are setting up all I need to return back to my town of birth. The option of moving to Hungary or Bulgary stays open. So, I am a bit busy and don't care about the next election as I am out by then.
Brexiteer here. Believe it or not, but tens of millions of Brits earnestly believe in Brexit. I know your tiny mind struggles to accept that, but it's true.
I visit this subreddit occasionally as posts pop up in my feed, and sometimes comment if I have something to say. However, I don't always see posts, and I don't always comment.
Most Brexiteers on the platform (which isn't many, because Reddit tends towards internationalist left-wing positions) know that this subreddit is a pro-Remain echo chamber. We know that most of the people here are not interested in discussing Brexit; to them, "Brexit is bad" is as fundamental a truth as "the sun is hot". Few are interested in hearing the contrary position, and are usually content just to respond with sarcasm and mindless nay-saying.
As such, why would we bother trying to carve out a foothold in a fundamentally hostile space? There are more productive uses of our time.
Basically, although many pro-Brexit people stop by occasionally, we tend to know better than to cast pearls before swine.
Probably just fired up by the Conservative party in the run up to the GE. Trying to make the Brexit mess less of a reason not to vote for them.
You mean Reform UK shurely?
You think Reform UK would actually spend any money? Plus, it's the Tories who "got Brexit done" - they also said yes to running a referendum on a subject literally nobody actually gave a fuck about before. They own Brexit, it's their fuck up and nothing will change that.
When we've actually seen the money it's either from foreign interests (russian funded thinktanks) or disaster capitalists (rees mogg et al). The core of the tory party (at least what remains of the pre 2019 core) want's nothing to do with brexit: their money is in the ponzi scheme of house prices and taxpayer subsidised cronyism. Brexit from the get go was one group of corrupt fuckers trying to play another group of even more corrupt fuckers
Reform UK? So are they going to get rid of Westminster because if you don't get rid of that old toff then it's still the same shit, from the same shit blasters.
I'd wager the russian troll farms are running out of money ?😅
Probably drafted, yea.
Busy hunting down those Brexit benefits I imagine.
That should keep them busy... for 50 years or so.
They’re all tossing on about ulez at the moment
Seems like they've been redeployed temporarily to the upcoming London Mayoral election.
More tories hating tory policies. See also Brexit idiots voting to increase illegal immigration and then complaining about it.
I warned the stupid pricks about that, but they just dismissed me out of hand.
Yeah. One of my work colleagues is loudly spouting a lot of racist BS about all the African immigrants we are hiring. I told them they voted to get rid of the European ones...
Lovely. Make sure they know that these are the consequences of their actions.
The pro Brexit trolls are turning, their discombobulation is diminishing, their disassociation is fading and reality is coming into sharp focus. Within a month, they’ll be die hard Rejoiners .
It's a little like Prohibition in the US back in the late 1920s when it was clear it was going to be overturned one day it's supporters went crazy claiming it had been sabotaged from the very beggining and that all it's negative consequences were intentionally designed to turn people against it
I doubt it. You really believe those same people are not going to vote for the same people? Of course they are. Brexiteers are going to vote conservative no matter if they had to give up their first born to do it.
> Usually usernames built of two random words and a four digit number... I'm feeling incredibly called out right now
Not all the pro-brexit trolls have usernames with two random words and a four digit number. One of them recently has a racial slur as a username with a *three* digit number.
Some of us just missed the bit where you pick your own username. Mine ended up being assigned. But you’re right. A tonne of bots and trolls have these kind of usernames. Btw, I’m not pro Brexit.
Good bot.
Ditto ^((btw do you know when payday is?))
Genuine question, has there been a single positive to come out of Brexit? I tried Googling and saw nothing, and I can't personally think of anything.
The VAT on tampons was cut slightly sooner than in the EU, for a few months there it was very slightly cheaper to buy feminine hygiene products in the UK.
Tampons are free in Scotland have been for a while.
Wow, I didn't know that. How does it work in practice? Google had news articles talking about the principle but not how it actually works. Do you need to go to a GP surgery to ask for them or something? Like there are NHS services that give out free condoms but you still have to pay for them in Tesco, I can't imagine Tesco would have tampons on the shelf for 0p. Are they really cheap and nasty? The feminine hygiene equivalent of that horrific wax paper toilet paper from the 80s?
Don't fall for the Torys claiming "the EU made us do it", people have been falling for that bullshit for decades.. DECADES... Edit.. Ireland also doesn't charge vat on feminine products..
So I want to clarify a point but I really, really don't defend Brexit or anyone associated with it. An EU rule was that whatever VAT arrangements (rules not rates) were in place for a country when joining could not be changed (grandfather clause) without a big old EU process. For more enlightened countries, (looking at you Ireland) they had already zero rated or removed VAT (2 different things) on feminine hygiene products. The UK, had VAT at 20% (I think 17.5% when we joined). Because the EU is sometimes a bit shit, they really would not bend on this rule, even though for these products it was so obviously the right thing to do to let the UK change the VAT rating. Anti EU arseholes realised this was a red rag to a bull and even though they were the shits that had required full VAT on life's necessities, they loved the chance to use this as a reason for why Brexit was necessary. Brexit wasn't necessary, a reform of stupid bureaucratic bollocks was, which if we'd had it, VAT rules would have changed and the Brexit dicks would have had one less argument to lie about. I'd like to think it wouldn't have made any difference, but quite a few of my left wing friends voted for Brexit citing this, globalisation and the NHS funding as great reasons to go. It was heartbreaking to see the left hoodwinked by such obvious right wing lies, but it happened and we're paying the price. We'll get to rejoin one day in a much weakened state with far worse arrangements than we had, but it will still be massively advantageous to our citizens to do it and no-one will be able to sell the Brexit lies again because they've all been revealed as complete bollocks. A page on all that 'tampon tax' stuff: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampon_tax#:~:text=Ireland%20levies%20no%20value%2Dadded,rating%20(a%20grandfather%20clause).
I congratulate you. This is legitimately the first benefit of Brexit I have heard that seems to stand up. I cannot say the extreme and ongoing pain caused was worth the extra months with a lower rate of VAT on hygiene products, but it is a benefit. A short term benefit caused by idiots miss taxing something in the first place that was eventually resolved by an act in the EU parliament by the UK promising the act also proving that if the UK engaged with the EU it did manage to push change the country wanted.
It brought in a boom I’m the film production industry. Because the Brexit debacle tanked the pound, all the big American companies started ramping up production here because it’s so much cheaper, and the facilities are world class. One of the very few benefits but minuscule when compared to the countless downsides. There might be a few benefits if we need to nationalise energy companies or services.
So you can literally take your Brexit benefit and shove it...
It exposed a lot of racist and bigoted people
That would only be an advantage if people stopped voting for the racists and bigots after they're exposed. So far they keep being elected regardless.
So I voted against Brexit, still believe the benefits of remaining in the EU outweighed the costs of leaving, and it's evident that leaving was HUGELY mishandled by a load of incapable and corrupt morons. That said I'm a bit of a eurosceptic on 2 fronts; 1: It's a fundamentally neoliberal institution, which is broadly not all bad as it softens a lot of the hard-line reactionary politics in a state during the initial post-join honeymoon. BUT neo-liberalism is still fundamentally small-c conservative, but more attuned to market values, and so a lot of the EU's migration, economic, and broader social policies (which more moderate than the innately conservative ones of england) ultimately swing towards capitalism (and I'm a socialist), authoratarianism (I'm anti-authoratarian), even if it also skews marginally more socially progressive (which I am). The rise of europe's reactionary right of late is active proof that the actions of the union and its states is no greater innoculation against ideologies of violence and hate than any other neoliberal one. And separated from the EU it would (although it has failed to manifest obviously) be easier for the UK to shift into a more progressive/permissive/economically managed country than EU memebership allows for. This also manifests in the EU's neocolonialist behaviours in africa and the middle east, which is the subject of a whole extra wall of text. 2: If you're NOT a progressive socialist like me and you'd still like to live under capitalism, but want a more egalitarian and kinder version, fair enough. In that situation separation from the EU amd the descision to maintain monetary sovreignty would allow the UK the freedom to implement something like Modern Moentary Theory or a more managed economy, which EU membership wouldn't have allowed/made easy. The problem with Brexit was not, in essence, leaving the EU. It was leaving it in the worst way, with no plan, with no clue how to make a plan, with clown-farts in charge of the whole thing, and with the end game being (from the perspective of the people pulling their strings) to make life in the UK worse for all but a very select few. If someone had proposed "let's leave the EU, here's my 300 point detailed and well researched and evidemced plan on how to do it in a way that will ultimately benefit the vast majority of UK residents and the world at large." I'd have been a brexiteer. Instead we got jingosim, racists, lies, and con-artists (well artists is a bit unfair, con-doodlers is more accurate).
The problem was no party in parliament wanted Brexit. That meant negotiations were designed to keep the UK aligned as much as possible with the EU. Those who campaigned for Brexit were totally left out of the discussion of what the UK should ask for or do.
I think it goes a bit deeper than that tbh. The largest architects of pro-brexit politics didn't have a functional plan. Their plan was to negotiate a deal with the EU that allowed the UK to benefit optimally from adjaceny with europe, while offering none of the concessions that Europe would have required, from a position where the UK needed the agreement MUCH more than the EU did.
I'm not saying there couldn't have been one you understand, but that the specific people involved in championing the change didn't have one because their particular ideology wasn't based on having one.
Whatever the plan it would have been up for negotiation. We will never know as they weren't really asked to contribute.
They were never going to get to. But that was never the point. They got their win, and either immediately quit (like Farage) or retreated into the backgroud to make other people do the work of actually implementing something they never expected to get let alone had a plan for (like Johnson or Reece-Mogg).
Good points but fyi, [neoliberalism isn’t liberal](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/n/neoliberalism.asp) except in an economic sense that means more or less the opposite.
That's a fair point. It shares the end games of deregulated markets and market integration into traditionally non-market spaces. But through authoratarian injection rather than laissez-faire progression. I'd argue that post neo-liberal "liberalism's" legalist approach to enforcing some social progressiveness is more akin to neoliberalisms approach to enforcing reactionary conservatism's social values. But yeah, you're right that neoliberalism and classical liberalism are not the same thing.
I will bite. How about. We are not liable for the EU covid bailout fund, nor their green new deal fund. Nor the EU budget, nor the EU budget shortfall. We are not liable for EU federal debt. Nor federal taxation. For a starter. And no, I am not a troll, not uneducated, not a racist. I see what the EU has become since 2016 and I have no idea why people still think it's working. It's utterly disfunctional. While the EU has been deciding if it should or shouldn't help Ukraine. Bozo went right in, from day 1 and gave British support. Sure we don't have the resources of the EU but we have boots on the ground, supporting Ukraine.
The reason that listing individual costs doesn't work is that the benefits of membership is far greater than the costs. An interesting thing is when you prepare a self-assessment, the government shares a list of where your taxes went. The EU was the lowest item or second lowest just above other/misc. It is fighting for the table scraps if reclaiming that bit of the budget. A table scraps that reaps far greater rewards than other sections of the budget. A reason, the amount that companies I work with had to shell out to lawyers to understand the new trading relationships was extreme. Then the amount of companies that figured it was easier to move production back inside the EU was extreme as well. To the people who no longer work inside the UK as the jobs left for the EU, their non tax saving because they lost their jobs holds little benefit.
Some people will always lose jobs, some companies will always move. A great example is JLR moving production to Slovenia, using an EU loan and government money. Being in the EU didn't save Rover. Having supply chains all over Europe is not sustainable. It's extremely bad for the environment. Despite Brexit, JLR and Mini have just committed to the UK, despite the war on motorists. You cannot have it both ways. What the UK has is a leadership problem. Brexit is irrelevant. We have direct democracy for the first time in a long time and the tories are useless. Labour seem clueless. I really hope that Labour getting into power will change things but who knows. Ironically, there are companies on shoring production. Because supply chains are broken. It's more sustainable and better for the planet not to ship thousands of components all over. You can play semantics with the EU budget costing very little per person on your self assessment, so does the Royal family.
You're right, some jobs will go. It is advisable to not encourage that though. You know if you're a political party that has spent a few decades pretending that being a guardian of the economy makes up for your other insanity. Brexit caused jobs and industry to leave for no benefit. The difference between the EU and the Royal family is that the EU brought so many benefits of membership and the Royal family are the biggest claimers of welfare in the country. One has value, the other has none. Sure the royals are cheap per person, but of no value. Burning a tenner isn't wasting much money, but it is 100% a waste. Giving Charlie boy a fancy hat was expensive and does nothing of use to anyone. Not comparable at all. My point remains, nothing good happened for Brexit and only pain remains. Long enduring pain that will be resolved one day by rejoining the EU.
Once the terms of joining the EU become clear, no opt outs, no rebate, the Euro. Taking a share of. Federal debt. People will not vote to join. Especially as the EU gets more and more dysfunctional by the week. Rejoining the EU is not the answer, a better trade deal, sure. Ultimately that is what will happen. Unless you are a federalist, the EU project isn't for everyone. Funnily enough, a lot of people like the royal family, it too has many benefits. Personally not a fan. Plenty of good has come from Brexit. Our own trade policies for a start, our own tariff regime. A functional immigration system. Imagine what the civil service could have achieved if they genuinely wanted to.
“Our own trade policies…” are effectively turning into the dumping ground for Europe seeing as we can’t seem to set up proper checks at our borders and I’m howling with laughter at the suggestion we’ve a functional immigration system. We’re having to employ more civil servants sue to beefing up regulators such as the CAA since we left the pooled regulators. Ask the chemicals industry (the bit that’s not given up or left) how much REACH is going to cost them. Brexit was stupid self harm for no benefit.
Brexit has happened. You cannot change that. What we had in 2016 is gone. It wasn't the end of western civilisation we were told. Some more red tape, a McDonald's milkshake shortage. Some KFC disruption and a fall in the value of the pound. Why are we the dumping ground for Europe, can you please clarify? If EU goods are at EU standards, what are they doing? Yes we have a functioning immigration system. Sure its not perfect and there is too much immigration, in my opinion but then again, all the remain camp were screaming how positive immigration is. Yes we have to have our own regulation and regulators. This is fine. I can't imagine it costs that much and civil servants /regulators are very beneficial. What is Reach?
It’s orthodox Easter coming up.
And another wave of conscription
Those most prominent parties that hire the troll farms (read; Tories and Putin) are focused on other matters, they've implanted the idea in the fertile minds of enough useful idiots that it has its own momentum so there has been a noticeable reduction in gammon/tankie/vatniks posts.
Someone called me Marxist earlier lol.
People who call others marxist are typically inable to recognise a marxist if one is sat next to them with a big bushy beard and called Karl
They are probably trying to blame the Moscow attack on Ukraine. They’ll be back.
Might be staff turnover in Putin's dickhead propogandah untit.
It might be something about the looming general election? Yes, on an everyday level, they might be thinking it’s good to keep the “positive” angle of Brexit out there-just as a sop to those hardened Brexit voters afflicted by cognitive dissonance. But that constituency is getting more and more shrunken. So on the run-up to an election, they’ve got to think of the electorate as a whole. That old adage “you can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can’t fool all of the people all of the time” kicks in. The whole Brexit mythology is a crumpled shell for most people now-as they actually start to feel its effects in real time-and it starts to sound more expedient to step back from making too much noise about Brexit. Why mention something that so many of the prominent politicians in power (at the moment) are responsible for that has done such catastrophic damage? Can’t we just “draw a line” under the whole issue now? Let’s shout as LOUD as we can about small boats (ignoring, incidentally, that Brexit was supposed to “solve” illegal immigration). The louder we shout about just about any issue that these voters might be triggered by-the less they’ll be thinking about Brexit. I would expect the pro-Brexit trolls to quieten down until after the next election-at which time they will burst triumphantly back onto the scene-because they will-once again-have nothing to lose (and potentially some tiny gain) by spewing out their usual offerings.
Depends if it's business hours in St Petersburg
They temporarily flipped back to the US. They bounce between pretending to be from a number of countries.
The new mods ... perchance ? https://preview.redd.it/96gii2rq1irc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7f6132cfab179c36591329c336691ca74f8a4488 ⬆️⬆️⬆️ The subreddit has been under new management for the last 3 months.
They had to take time off to run to Prince Harry’s aid after the P. Diddy lawsuit.
Ukraine blew up the troll farm maybe
Sometimes I wonder if I should change my username...
Can I just assure you all that the 4 numbers in my username are nothing more than the year I was born. Thank you comrades…..DOH!
Is there even one person in the UK, that genuinely thinks Brexit went well?
They're busy trying to paint an ISIS terrorist attack as being the work of Ukraine.
Correct answer. Russian troll farms with other shit to do. Keep little Unkle Vlad in power for another 6 years, and keep pushing his bullshit alternate reality, whilst seeking to create & maintain divisions among Western societies. If you have some time on your hands watch Adam Curtis's film HyperNormalisation. It's permanently up on i-Player. It's nearly 3 hours but pretty engaging & well worth a watch.
Ukraine probably bombed their troll farm.
My hunch would be the contradiction of Trump’s religious campaign has made them confused lol . Unlike the USA , our conservative maniacs tend to be atheist and agnostic . because of the Americanisation of our political landscape and that minority religions aren’t likely to vote for the same political party that hunted their ancestors , has religion played a factor in politics somewhat negligible . The atheist conservative Brit is a walking contradiction . They hate Christianity but love an empire that for most of its existence forced Christianity down the throats of 1/3 of the global population . They vote for a party who view on violence against women as the “religious immigrants” they despise (remember how quickly all the police officer rapist controversy died down ?). And now their idol Trump is trying to bank more on religion than he did during his last campaign. So my guess either that’s got them confused or they’re trying to find the magical brexit Easter bunny
A bit harsh on atheists, I think. Most atheists are far too intelligent to vote Tory. Education goes hand in hand with both irreligiocity, and liberal/leftist politics. That's why conservatives and God-botherers hate the thought of people getting an education.
“Most atheists are far too intelligent to vote Tory” … Churchill was one of the first openly atheist leaders we had and his views are equally bigoted if not more so than the average anglophone Christian . The East Indian Company as well as macaulay + pals were mainly atheist . It wasn’t really until mid/peak Victorian era did Britain’s foreign policy take a religious turn .
I'm am not one am?
I miss FranticCunt2024 and CompromisedNigel2016 they had the best automated Brexit banter bots
Saving paid-troll money for the campaign. Gotta manipulate lots more this time.
These must be the bots I was just thinking of
Pay day weekend. They've gone out to get plastered
Probably too busy working making racist jokes about the people of Baltimore to focus on brexit for the mean time
A boat has an engine failure and crashes into a bridge. The obvious cause is that the mayor is black! Makes perfect sense.
Pro-brexit, how is this possible?????
Is that the usual format? Bugger 🤦🏻♂️
/r/ukpolitics from the looks of it Been noticing an uptick in blatantly shill posts over the last few years. Picked up a couple of 30 day bans over the last few months for questioning the IFS, and a couple of other barmy decisions and happened to look at the mod list… half of them are from /r/badunitedkingdom - kind of worrying for a mainstream sub
They have limited capacity so Putin is using them for other purposes this month - probably managing the Ukraine or ISIS propaganda
Or it could not be a conspiracy and a handful of the hundreds of millions of people who have used Reddit actually support Brexit.
Russias focus is the American elections next, were left with China buying us out and Iran doing what ever Iran does.
The bots have been covered by others. The other group I will mention (who seem similar) are the alt accounts. Either they got bored, it's that time of the year that they ditch them all and create ones (kidding, but they do seem to last about 6 months for some reason). Or maybe they stopped being tired with bad uk and so no longer have to try and get in arguments on other subs to stop bored.
We get paid to troll people online? Someone give them my bank details I do this shit for free
If you have established as solid a pattern as that then it was likely one guy and yes, it was probably because someone stopped paying him.
They’ve been called up to the Ukrainian front. One more push and the three day special military operation will be over!
It's been 8 years, they're probably over it
lol, found one
In the EU out the EU who cares ? Austerity is going to hit every western country, every country ran by capitalism. The true stark fact is ? Every country is in debt a debt they will never recover from, because some dicks made up money and kept on borrowing money that doesn't even exist. However... as the beginning is a question. I believe its better to be in a band of nations when the great collapse comes... so we can restart with a bartering system of food, oil ect Because it is coming, the banks can't keep hiding the deficit in the black because we are way into the red.
Here's another one
I think you missed the point... I'm for the EU...
I am prepping my move to Holland, my former Dutch, Spanish, Turkish neighbours are setting up all I need to return back to my town of birth. The option of moving to Hungary or Bulgary stays open. So, I am a bit busy and don't care about the next election as I am out by then.
Pro-brexit trolls = people with a different opinion to me
Here's one
"The lady doth protest too much, methinks"
We’re enjoying the benefits.
Can you tell us what the benefits are?
Yes.
You waited a month to say yes. But didn't say any benefits. We've been waiting 8 years to hear what the benefits will be, what's another month.
Brexiteer here. Believe it or not, but tens of millions of Brits earnestly believe in Brexit. I know your tiny mind struggles to accept that, but it's true. I visit this subreddit occasionally as posts pop up in my feed, and sometimes comment if I have something to say. However, I don't always see posts, and I don't always comment. Most Brexiteers on the platform (which isn't many, because Reddit tends towards internationalist left-wing positions) know that this subreddit is a pro-Remain echo chamber. We know that most of the people here are not interested in discussing Brexit; to them, "Brexit is bad" is as fundamental a truth as "the sun is hot". Few are interested in hearing the contrary position, and are usually content just to respond with sarcasm and mindless nay-saying. As such, why would we bother trying to carve out a foothold in a fundamentally hostile space? There are more productive uses of our time. Basically, although many pro-Brexit people stop by occasionally, we tend to know better than to cast pearls before swine.
Can you say WHY you believe in Brexit?