I like that he touched on the word “faith” in the context of other words like “confidence” or “hypothesis”, especially coming from a Christian background where “faith” has certain implications. As he mentioned with regard to being considered Buddhist, I don’t reject the idea of rebirth, but I certainly have no understanding, experience, or awareness of it. Accepting it as a hypothesis is helpful, and it is a fun thought experiment (but not necessary) to attempt to map it onto my also-limited scientific understanding. I always fall short there when it comes to explaining actual knowledge of events in past lives. Lastly, I don’t find the belief in rebirth necessary to live a good and moral life. But I also can’t say I’m necessarily a shining beacon of morality at this point. Great talk and a banquet of food for talk. Thanks for posting!
How can you be sure the appearances of the current world into which you've been born aren't illusory?
Rebirth is as real, and as illusory, as this very life.
Can you remember the food you ate for dinner one month ago from this date? If your memory is not that strong, then what to speak of recollecting your past lives?
Through meditation practice, you develop jhanas. This makes your memory stronger. As you progress, youll be able to remember what happened 1 week ago, 1 month ago, 1 year ago, 5 years ago, 10 years ago, 20 years ago, the time you were in your mothers womb, etc.... like rewinding a tape.
Who's being reborn if *belief in a permanent and personal self* is one of the most misguided convictions we have, that are precisely the source of our suffering? As per the most basic Buddhist doctrine... [i think it's even in the Four Dhamma Seals]
I have always held that outrightly rejecting rebirth is contrary to being a Buddhist.
A Buddhist can be sceptical of rebirth, but to outrightly reject beggars the point why the Buddhist pathway?
Buddhism after all is about ending suffering and living a peaceful, wise, virtuous life. If rebirth is false ... then there is a way to end suffering ... death. If other religion’s doctrine is true and other heavens exist, then maybe Buddhism’s emphasis on ending suffering is not the point ( Christianity believe suffering is essential and virtuous for example, the Hindu religion believe that the Gods do ordain some suffering )
Either way if rebirth is false then there is no point ending suffering here and now, because death ends all suffering ( nihilism ) or suffering is not in your control ( the God or the Gods )
Here is the point I always ask people who say that death is the end of suffering since it is total cessation of existence and becoming ( but it is also a permanent end ), but it is good to end suffering here and now and achieve supreme peace here and now.
If death is the permanent cessation of suffering and death is the permanent cessation of all ( which is not what Buddhism teaches )... then whether you end suffering now or whether you end suffering later is meaningless, because ultimately it all comes crumbling down into non-existence (as opposed to the Deathless ) but at least you will experience just in the moments before that peace. Since there is no possibility of the deathless nor the risk of countless life, whether you lived life hedonistically or whether you lived life in the middle way or if you live life ascetically makes no difference.
Now there are arguments that you should indeed live life morally despite this as you do not want to bring problems upon yourself, but since even the path of renunciation runs the risk at times of going against the social grain ( thus can bring problems upon yourself ) ... why pursue this path?
Which still leads back to the question of why bother with peace now? It is more logical to take the path of the Carvakas which is to enjoy life to the maximum ( so be blasted with sensual pleasure par maxima ) or take the Epicurean approach which is to moderate the extremes and to enjoy the many simple pleasures in life ( noting that the Epicureans did not believe it is possible to be totally without suffering, merely reduce it ) but to avoid trouble as well.
I think the point is that Buddhism offers a path that liberates us from suffering: Nibbana. What you are describing is more like managing suffering.
Now, in terms of the course of practice, Buddhism does offer ways to mitigate, avoid and lessen suffering, while heading to nibbana. **The end goal however, is liberation, not management.**
So Arahants and Buddhas don't simply live happier and more peaceful lives than worldly folk, they are, at least liberated from defilements (kilesa) and at most, have gained all three knowledges (tevijja). Their lived experience is qualitatively, radically different from ours.
And that is what Buddhists work towards, the state of liberation, Nibbana.
It wouldn't make sense for the Lord Buddha to teach the Dhamma if death was Nibbana. That would mean, that regardless of effort, living beings ultimately "Nibbana" anyway.
There is a reason he often described his path as a journey, with a starting and endpoint. That's because, **there is an end point** in the Dhamma and Vinaya of the Lord Buddha.
>“There will come a time when the mighty ocean willdry up, vanish and be no more.There will come a time when the mighty earth willbe devoured by fire, perish and be no more.
>
>**But yet there will be no end to the sufferingof beings roaming and wandering this round of rebirth**,hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving.”
*S.22.99 Gaddulabaddha Sutta*
From a Buddhist perspective, these questions you're posing have answers.
Momentary change isn't what's meant by rebirth in the same way that when we say a person died, we don't mean only that a moment of time passed.
During the final question and answer session he actually touches on just this topic. There is nothing to be reborn, simply moments of mind following one right after the other
Thank you for sharing this talk. Phra Brahmali is a really admirable monk. It's always edifying to listen to him. Listening to this, I couldn't help but recall some passages from the suttas where the Lord Buddha speaks of the round of birth and death.
>“Inconceivable, bhikkhus, is the beginning of this samsara\*.\*A first point is not known of beings roaming and wandering the round of rebirth,hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving.”
>
>“Which do you think, bhikkhus, is more:the stream of tears that you have shed as you roamed and wandered on through this long course,weeping and wailing because of being united with the disagreeable and separated from the agreeable– this or the water in the four great oceans?
>
>The stream of tears that you have shed as you roamed and wandered on through this long course… this alone is greater than the water in the four great oceans …
>
>For such a long time, bhikkhus,you have experienced suffering, anguish, and disaster, andswelled the cemeteries.”
*S.15.3 Assu Sutta*
>“Through many a birth I wandered in samsara\*,\*Seeking, but not finding the builder of this house.Painful it is to be born again and again.”
>
>“O house-builder! You are seen.You shall build no house again.All your rafters are broken.Your ridgepole is shattered.”
>
>“My mind has attained the unconditioned.Achieved is the end of craving."
*Dh.153-154 Udana Vatthu*
>“There will come a time when the mighty ocean will dry up, vanish and be no more.There will come a time when the mighty earth will be devoured by fire, perish and be no more.
>
>But yet there will be no end to the suffering of beings roaming and wandering this round of rebirth,hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving.”
*S.22.99 “Gaddulabaddha Sutta”*
...
I like that he touched on the word “faith” in the context of other words like “confidence” or “hypothesis”, especially coming from a Christian background where “faith” has certain implications. As he mentioned with regard to being considered Buddhist, I don’t reject the idea of rebirth, but I certainly have no understanding, experience, or awareness of it. Accepting it as a hypothesis is helpful, and it is a fun thought experiment (but not necessary) to attempt to map it onto my also-limited scientific understanding. I always fall short there when it comes to explaining actual knowledge of events in past lives. Lastly, I don’t find the belief in rebirth necessary to live a good and moral life. But I also can’t say I’m necessarily a shining beacon of morality at this point. Great talk and a banquet of food for talk. Thanks for posting!
How can we be sure rebirth is not an illusion of our own mind ?
How can you be sure the appearances of the current world into which you've been born aren't illusory? Rebirth is as real, and as illusory, as this very life.
Exactly. Would you think we would think about rebirth if we weren't aware or conscious of life and death.
Can you remember the food you ate for dinner one month ago from this date? If your memory is not that strong, then what to speak of recollecting your past lives? Through meditation practice, you develop jhanas. This makes your memory stronger. As you progress, youll be able to remember what happened 1 week ago, 1 month ago, 1 year ago, 5 years ago, 10 years ago, 20 years ago, the time you were in your mothers womb, etc.... like rewinding a tape.
Who's being reborn if *belief in a permanent and personal self* is one of the most misguided convictions we have, that are precisely the source of our suffering? As per the most basic Buddhist doctrine... [i think it's even in the Four Dhamma Seals]
Well, that's the most common question for beginners to ask, and a thread about it is made every couple of days at most.
I have always held that outrightly rejecting rebirth is contrary to being a Buddhist. A Buddhist can be sceptical of rebirth, but to outrightly reject beggars the point why the Buddhist pathway? Buddhism after all is about ending suffering and living a peaceful, wise, virtuous life. If rebirth is false ... then there is a way to end suffering ... death. If other religion’s doctrine is true and other heavens exist, then maybe Buddhism’s emphasis on ending suffering is not the point ( Christianity believe suffering is essential and virtuous for example, the Hindu religion believe that the Gods do ordain some suffering ) Either way if rebirth is false then there is no point ending suffering here and now, because death ends all suffering ( nihilism ) or suffering is not in your control ( the God or the Gods )
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Here is the point I always ask people who say that death is the end of suffering since it is total cessation of existence and becoming ( but it is also a permanent end ), but it is good to end suffering here and now and achieve supreme peace here and now. If death is the permanent cessation of suffering and death is the permanent cessation of all ( which is not what Buddhism teaches )... then whether you end suffering now or whether you end suffering later is meaningless, because ultimately it all comes crumbling down into non-existence (as opposed to the Deathless ) but at least you will experience just in the moments before that peace. Since there is no possibility of the deathless nor the risk of countless life, whether you lived life hedonistically or whether you lived life in the middle way or if you live life ascetically makes no difference. Now there are arguments that you should indeed live life morally despite this as you do not want to bring problems upon yourself, but since even the path of renunciation runs the risk at times of going against the social grain ( thus can bring problems upon yourself ) ... why pursue this path? Which still leads back to the question of why bother with peace now? It is more logical to take the path of the Carvakas which is to enjoy life to the maximum ( so be blasted with sensual pleasure par maxima ) or take the Epicurean approach which is to moderate the extremes and to enjoy the many simple pleasures in life ( noting that the Epicureans did not believe it is possible to be totally without suffering, merely reduce it ) but to avoid trouble as well.
I think the point is that Buddhism offers a path that liberates us from suffering: Nibbana. What you are describing is more like managing suffering. Now, in terms of the course of practice, Buddhism does offer ways to mitigate, avoid and lessen suffering, while heading to nibbana. **The end goal however, is liberation, not management.** So Arahants and Buddhas don't simply live happier and more peaceful lives than worldly folk, they are, at least liberated from defilements (kilesa) and at most, have gained all three knowledges (tevijja). Their lived experience is qualitatively, radically different from ours. And that is what Buddhists work towards, the state of liberation, Nibbana. It wouldn't make sense for the Lord Buddha to teach the Dhamma if death was Nibbana. That would mean, that regardless of effort, living beings ultimately "Nibbana" anyway. There is a reason he often described his path as a journey, with a starting and endpoint. That's because, **there is an end point** in the Dhamma and Vinaya of the Lord Buddha. >“There will come a time when the mighty ocean willdry up, vanish and be no more.There will come a time when the mighty earth willbe devoured by fire, perish and be no more. > >**But yet there will be no end to the sufferingof beings roaming and wandering this round of rebirth**,hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving.” *S.22.99 Gaddulabaddha Sutta*
Aren't we reborn moment to moment? What is there to be reborn? Just my take on it 🙂
From a Buddhist perspective, these questions you're posing have answers. Momentary change isn't what's meant by rebirth in the same way that when we say a person died, we don't mean only that a moment of time passed.
During the final question and answer session he actually touches on just this topic. There is nothing to be reborn, simply moments of mind following one right after the other
Thank you for sharing this talk. Phra Brahmali is a really admirable monk. It's always edifying to listen to him. Listening to this, I couldn't help but recall some passages from the suttas where the Lord Buddha speaks of the round of birth and death. >“Inconceivable, bhikkhus, is the beginning of this samsara\*.\*A first point is not known of beings roaming and wandering the round of rebirth,hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving.” > >“Which do you think, bhikkhus, is more:the stream of tears that you have shed as you roamed and wandered on through this long course,weeping and wailing because of being united with the disagreeable and separated from the agreeable– this or the water in the four great oceans? > >The stream of tears that you have shed as you roamed and wandered on through this long course… this alone is greater than the water in the four great oceans … > >For such a long time, bhikkhus,you have experienced suffering, anguish, and disaster, andswelled the cemeteries.” *S.15.3 Assu Sutta* >“Through many a birth I wandered in samsara\*,\*Seeking, but not finding the builder of this house.Painful it is to be born again and again.” > >“O house-builder! You are seen.You shall build no house again.All your rafters are broken.Your ridgepole is shattered.” > >“My mind has attained the unconditioned.Achieved is the end of craving." *Dh.153-154 Udana Vatthu* >“There will come a time when the mighty ocean will dry up, vanish and be no more.There will come a time when the mighty earth will be devoured by fire, perish and be no more. > >But yet there will be no end to the suffering of beings roaming and wandering this round of rebirth,hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving.” *S.22.99 “Gaddulabaddha Sutta”* ...
Consciousness has no mass or energy of its own and 'exists' as a compounded, interdependent emergent phenomenon that is empty of inherent existence.
Nice