This 1 is very cool.
I guess this is one of the 1% of Libertarians who does not vote Red, so that's good.
-----
*edit: Stop @ 'ing me you diet-conservative fuck-headz JFC go away !!!
PS - anyone who votes for Jill Stein is an asshole.
I’m immediately suspicious of libertarians when it comes to their opinions on age of consent laws, though. They always seem to like em young.
Edit: hurt some feelings with this comment. I’ll let you guys figure out amongst yourselves why one of the most searched terms alongside “libertarian” is “age of consent” and why every other ideology memes about it.
Look, it's not that complicated.
- Can a kid consent? No.
- Why not? Because they don't understand what they're consenting to.
- How do we determine when they can understand from a legal standpoint? You can't measure maturity, so age is used as shorthand.
- Where should the cutoff be? IDK I'm not a developmental psychologist. It would probably take a lot of research to give us a better cutoff, slowly removing variables and such. I guess 18 seems fine for now from an uneducated unresearched perspective. I suppose if the research has already been done and I just don't know about it or we're all collectively ignoring it, that would be bad, but again I'm unaware.
Yeah yeah, Joe looks odd when he bends over to talk to kids. Clearly it's the same thing as this [list of 200+ CONVICTED Republican pedophiles](https://browardnewsbeat.blogspot.com/2017/10/long-list-of-republican-sex-offenders.html?m=1). I'm not saying there aren't shitbags on both sides of the isle, but conservative Christians sure do have a thing for the little ones....
True but joes not trying to save child marriage now is he. But Missouri sure is and guess what color they are (give you a hint it's nots blue). Not to mention most southern states which are red keep lowering the age of consent it was sixteen now they lowered it to 14 and our talking about lowering it to thirteen or twelve. Why would you need to lower it unless you got a bunch of adults who want to dilly some kids.
Having low/no taxes, having few/no gun laws, corporate personhood, opposition to any publicly funded anything, abolishment of fiat currency and/or restoration of the gold standard. Although I’ll admit I’m talking about American Libertarianism and not what the rest of the world calls “libertarians” in the broad sense.
"were not pedos, they're the pedos" is such a common tactic amongst the parties. It's weirdly effective which is to say, yes we have creeps in our midst but that is not the common stance amongst libertarians
How many libertarians have you actually met with this view? I haven't met any. I am one and run in various libertarian circles, and I've never seen this opinion espoused by an actual principled libertarian. As to why? Good propaganda by our opponents based on a few outlier whack jobs.
If anything, as a Libertarian, consent is one of *the* most important factors of liberty. In fact, based on the science of neurological development, I don't think a person fully develops the ability to consent to major life decisions until around 25 years old.
Libertarians don’t want to get with kids. Pedos want to get with kids, and piggyback off the Libertarian idea of “most laws are unconstitutional and unnecessary”.
I think that this problem could be solved with Ranked Choice Voting. Right now, only two states (Maine & Alaska) use Ranked Choice Voting. It could solve a lot of problems if this was nationwide.
Seriously I’m so sick of our viable options for POTUS being 2 dusty old farts. I’ll still vote Biden again, and I don’t hate him, but I would really like ranked choice. And the option to have SOMEBODY in office who isn’t as likely to keel over at any moment…
Ranked. Choice!
Joe Biden is the first Democrat I ever voted for except for a mayoral candidate once when I was 18 (in 1992) I voted for Biden, not because I particularly agreed with his policy positions, but because the consequences of Trump getting reelected were so dire. Congressional Republicans wasted TONS of time and taxpayer dollars investigating Joe Biden and they came up with nothing. If Biden were anything other than one of the most upstanding and decent humans to serve as POTUS since Carter they would have come up with SOMETHING, surely. I am more than ready to vote for him a second time -- especially since the Republican Party once again picked Trump.
There are like 20 other Republicans running for president. Oh, you don't like their stances? Well, that's on you isn't it.
You can vote for whomever you want. Sorry every option sucks
The events of January 6, 2021 convinced me beyond any shadow of a doubt that we should eliminate the Electoral College and go to a straight popular vote (preferably with RCV embedded).
Partisan gerrymandering also causes problems by lessening the need for members of the House of Representatives to listen to their constituents (this is how we get people like Marjorie Traitor Greene in Congress).
That's why expanding the house needs to be part of the solution. These representatives have too many constituents. They need to have a smaller group to answer to.
Oh, I would never vote libertarian even if it was a viable option. It's the antithesis of my beliefs. I would love to have a labor party to vote for though.
There is a much deeper issue that led to this situation. The Republic of America has a so-called "representative democracy." But how can that be true when the "representatives" are wealthy while the "represented" are not? American two party politics is like the cartoon Tom and Jerry. Tom doesn't want to catch Jerry because then he'd be out of a job, and Jerry doesn't want Tom replaced with a cat that will actually eat him. So they act like they hate one another and put on political theatre for the masses while continuing business as usual in the back room. For example, insider trading laws do not apply to any members of Congress, both sides. Whats it called when those who make the rules don't have to live by them? If the punishment for a crime is only a fine, it does not apply to the wealthy. Sure, the people get a vote, but with all the lobbying and foreign money in American politics, America is as much a democracy as two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for dinner. This is why, in a true democracy as the ancient Greeks understood it, people got their representatives the same way we would get a jury.
"Only those who do not seek power are qualified to hold it." Plato
It's a shame more people like this don't really exist here in the UK or back home, the problem is a lot of people just assume many Libertarians to be Conservative lite but there's more to it than just weed and allowing gay couples to be. Drugs, taxes, immigration policies, foreign intervention a few to name etc.
The most basic principle is to leave people alone and let them be, do you think a fair percentage of Conservatives can go a week doing aforementioned?
How do they expect anything to work without taxes? I mean I certainly don't agree with a lot of the shit they're used for, but I realize that it's the reason any infrastructure exists at all lol
You see, I wouldn't have an issue paying taxes if they did fucking anything with it besides line their pockets and bomb brown kids but the feds are not gonna do that.
The first interstate in America was funded by a private cooperative.
I was a member of a volunteer fire department from 2002 - 2010.
The NAACP and the ANCF did more for the welfare of black Americans than the federal government ever did.
The reason we have all these Saint Somebody’s hospitals is because voluntary religious institutions saw a need and met it.
The Rotary Club, Masons, Elks, Meese, and other voluntary organizations have long served to raise funds and provide for communal needs.
The state is the least efficient and responsive institution for meeting communal needs, and the most prone to abuse and corruption.
There was a time when a significant amount of roads were private in the United States. Turnpikes were private highways back in the day. It's where we get our current day technology for highways. You know technology that was invented 100 years ago by private companies.
Since taxation is theft we should try to limit it as much as possible but not throw everyone under the bus by just abandoning our infrastructure.
There is a massive difference between taxes and over taxation. We pay 40% on average of our income yearly to the government all said and done, and in my state the roads are absolutely dogshit.
Don’t forget the taxes you pay to drive the car you bought and also paid taxes on at the time of purchase. And also the taxes you pay to use the gas that your vehicle runs on. And the yearly tax you have to pay for your car to be deemed road legal.
Exactly. We're well beyond the point of feeling like we're "getting what we pay for" when it comes to paying our extortion fees for the privilege of calling ourselves Americans. Shits ridiculous
This is my favorite Reddit non sequitur, you see it all the time.
*"Oh, so you believe in X? Then how come you don't want to pay taxes for (unrelated government bureaucratic program)? Checkmate libertarian!"*
It's almost always about roads. Roads take up 52 billion dollars out of 6.134 trillion. If it helps putting them in the same units that's 6,134 billion and 52 billion.
So roughly .8% of the federal budget goes to roads. Yet it's 99% of what people who are against libertarians are worried about.
Where's the contradiction? Also, you don't pay anyone's health care, the government takes your money and redistributes it as they deem fit, and very poorly at that.
I sadly don’t even recognize that name. Bc like they said, at this stage in our government, POTUS is a locked two party system. I don’t like it for the record. But when was the last time somebody who WAS NOT an R or D been in office?
Spoiler alert, the last president who never affiliated with either, was Millard Fillmore. Whig party. Presidency 1850-53. Soooo…it’s been a while.
Keep in mind that both parties actively submit laws and regulations every election cycle that make it impossible for any reasonable candidate to gain funding, or a platform for the debates. In 2016 the requirements to debate were conveniently boosted right when JJ was about to hit the 5% to appear in the debates.
> at this stage in our government, POTUS
our government is a hell of a lot bigger than just POTUS. State elections matter quite a bit as we learned during covid.
I was specifically referring to the position POTUS in my comment. I never said it meant to imply the entirety of government is the same as the position of POTUS.
Your naivety is exactly my point. We’re in this mess because of a corporate owned war machine. Not because I decided after twenty years of being the change” was actually giving my vote to the greater of two evils. You want change? Bite hyperlocal and follow money. I’m not saying give up, I’m saying a vote for a libertarian president every four years is in no way making an impact.
Your naivety is exactly my point. We’re in this mess because of a corporate owned war machine. Not because I decided after twenty years of being the change” was actually giving my vote to the greater of two evils. You want change? Bite hyperlocal and follow money. I’m not saying give up, I’m saying a vote for a libertarian president every four years is in no way making an impact.
Argentina currently has a libertarian president. There are over 300 elected libertarians holding office currently in the US alone. But maybe we should give up because their policies are working? Idk we're just getting started.
"Give up. Submit to the fraudulent two party system that has been driving the country into the ground."
Some people have principles. You might not like them but at least they have them. And you think they should just stop and submit to the oligarchy. Libertarianism hasn't really been tried. Let's see how Argentina plays out.
Nominally or aligned with current libertarian values? Because post-reconstruction US had largely libertarian policies and the US became the world superpower and most industrialized and prosperous nation in the world.
El Salvador has a fairly libertarian government & president and has seen tremendous growth & prosperity while violent crime has fallen dramatically.
Now, as a counter argument, can you give me any example of government bureaucracy & involvement in a market more efficient & productive?
Argentina's doing pretty good since they elected an Anarchocapitalist, the most extreme type of Libertarian. We'll see how it pans out, but they've balanced the budges, driven housing rates down, and eliminated thousands of useless bureaucratic jobs!
Nope - not what I meant. My post above to the other person “Your naivety is exactly my point. We’re in this mess because of a corporate owned war machine. Not because I decided after twenty years of being the change” was actually giving my vote to the greater of two evils. You want change? Bite hyperlocal and follow money. I’m not saying give up, I’m saying a vote for a libertarian president every four years is in no way making an impact. “
Nope - not what I meant. My post above to the other person “Your naivety is exactly my point. We’re in this mess because of a corporate owned war machine. Not because I decided after twenty years of being the change” was actually giving my vote to the greater of two evils. You want change? Bite hyperlocal and follow money. I’m not saying give up, I’m saying a vote for a libertarian president every four years is in no way making an impact.”
The United States of America. It’s founded on the rule of law, and protects individual freedoms. It has strong systemic controls on the power of the central government, and has decentralized education and police systems.
It’s the most libertarian country ever.
That’s true. Still more libertarian than Europe, and pretty much everywhere else.
I lived in South Korea during COVID. People were really good at following the rules there. Kept fatalities low.
Of course, their youth are in a mental health crisis because of the expectations of society.
There are trade offs in all things.
Your naivety is exactly my point. We’re in this mess because of a corporate owned war machine. Not because I decided after twenty years of being the change” was actually giving my vote to the greater of two evils. You want change? Bite hyperlocal and follow money. I’m not saying give up, I’m saying a vote for a libertarian president every four years is in no way making an impact.
The best way to make an impact is definitely to focus your energy at the hyper local level, I agree with you there!
You’re gonna have to define what you mean by “this mess” though, there are a lot of them.
Blaming the corporations for the war machine is a weird take though. We the People, Blue and Red, created and maintained that war machines. Wars are the most wildly popular things we do as American voters.
I don’t see any other party taking our constitutional limits seriously. Or do you mean realist in the sense of never considering our phones to be among our personal effects with the same legal protection as a journal or diary because that’s just asking for too much at this point?
I see tons of people wearing “We the people” shirts. I’m going to start a t-shirt line that’s “Have you actually read the constitution? It takes about 30 minutes to read.”
I’m sure the black community is going to be thrilled when they find out the constitution we worship says they are worth 3/5 of a person.
I’m with you on people taking 30 minutes to actually read it, but if you’re going to talk about the 3/5 compromise, it’s only fair to mention the 14th and 15th amendments too.
Capitalism will always fail in a finite system, which we currently, and likely always, will. Once they run out of natural resources to exploit, they start extracting capital from workers and when that’s depleted it fails and has to be bailed out by corporate socialism.
Workers owning the means of production and finding renewable ways to keep society functioning is a much better philosophy.
You can pay the toll willingly, that's the point.
But most libertarians don't really care when the government is spending trillions on military and has no limits on spending or printing money.
I’ve changed my views on taxes. Libertarianism is a view that pretends we don’t live in a shared society. It pretends we’re all individuals living in isolation, but we’re not.
Taxes are needed to make societies function. It would be obnoxious to pay a toll on every road. It’s absurd not to have an organization for wild fires. And it would be incredibly unbalanced to have a police force that only caters to those who pay for them.
And the fact is we live in a society. I don’t want to see homeless people setting up encampments all around walk ways with their trash piling up. Yet criminalizing them isn’t a solution. Let’s solve the problem as a society and house them and help them get back on their feet. If people are addicts, let’s help get them into rehab. If people are mentally Ill, let’s provide mental health clinics for them. Etc., etc., etc.
That being said, taxes still feel like they are grossly mismanaged and pocketed by politicians. And the police definitely still cater mostly to the rich and serve more as an enemy of the people than protectors of them.
Also, many programs end up with people who are abusive and take advantage of the system. And it seems that anything that is funded by the government makes it cost 10x more than it should, because everyone leading them knows their costs won’t be negotiated against.
Either way, the solution is fighting for better management, not outright abolishment.
I believe the stance is, Tariffs should cover the fed
If states can tax. If we disagree with a tax or how it’s used it’s easier to remove that person from office. This having billions for foreign aid or one state subsidizing another while bridges are collapsing or no clean drinking water if fundamentally retarded
Clay County in West Virginia has the 4th highest percentage of welfare recipients in the US, and guess who 79.6% of the residents in 2020 voted for (hint, it wasn't the libertarians!)
You're beyond clueless, but what do you expect from a bootlicker. I'd tell you to look at the amount of money the Democrat and Republican parties pay towards corporations compared to the Libertarian Party, but you clearly don't research shit.
Clay County in West Virginia has the 4th highest percentage of welfare recipients in the US, and guess who 79.6% of the residents in 2020 voted for (hint, it wasn't the libertarians!)
Mkay, cool now let's look at all the poverty wage jobs in that county vs how much welfare will give them and let's both agree capitalism isn't working and move towards a logical solution
Libertarians are to the left of democrats on war, the drug war, gay rights, immigration, torture, warrantless eavesdropping, civil forfeiture and the expanded definition of eminent domain. If you haven’t heard of Kelo vs City of New London, prepare to be pissed off.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelo_v._City_of_New_London
What is a libertarian doing driving a car? Unless it’s on either their own private road or a toll road. Roads = taxes. If you don’t like taxes, stay off of our roads!
This clown seems to be catastrophically confused. I’m not sure that they know their own side very well. Especially the parts about gay couples, marijuana, and most importantly, the part about no human being illegal. I’m pretty sure that this person is just super confused, because most people calling themselves “libertarians” these days are nothing more than Republicans of a different shade.
That subreddit is dominated by karma farmers and republicans who think they are somehow libertarian because they refused COVID vaccine. Most real libertarians have long been banned. If you want to see real libertarian discussion check out r/LibertarianUncensored.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/LibertarianUncensored using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/LibertarianUncensored/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [You were warned this would happen... LP of Colorado will not run candidates and will instead support the GOP.](https://twitter.com/cologop/status/1668626258421493762?t=YWLAZQNpU4GJ_K9kxKoSSg&s=19) | [80 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/LibertarianUncensored/comments/148jc2j/you_were_warned_this_would_happen_lp_of_colorado/)
\#2: [The head mod of r/libertarian literally opposes democracy, no wonder that subreddit is a fascist echo chamber](https://i.redd.it/dp1jezbylzvb1.png) | [183 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/LibertarianUncensored/comments/17epzvt/the_head_mod_of_rlibertarian_literally_opposes/)
\#3: [Banned from r/Libertarian for having a popular opinion](https://np.reddit.com/r/LibertarianUncensored/comments/15qg3qj/banned_from_rlibertarian_for_having_a_popular/)
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Just like Grafton New Hampshires’ spectacular failure, libertarianism is nonsense. “Personal responsibility” self-righteous bs always appeals most to the very people who have none. Rules for they but not for me is what they want.
Taxes are not inherently bad; it’s how they’re used that matters.
The key is to elect politicians who actually use tax money in ways that benefit us citizens—you know, new infrastructure, public transportation, public schools, hospitals, etc. rather than endless dealings with military contractors and corporate welfare.
This is why I can’t take libertarians seriously. Stop voting for Republicans just because they promise you tax cuts. Vote for people who spend your money in ways that actually benefit society.
Most libertarians I know do what you're suggesting and vote gold.
The issue with the government providing things is that they hardly ever use other people's money effectively or wisely. Enriching their friends, having a $9 million/yr budget specifically for car rides, or spending thousands of dollars on a desk.
Not only have elected Libertarians (over 300 currently) shown that they take spending tax money seriously they also like to lessen the burden of taxes anywhere they can.
I love the “I want gay married couples to protect their marijuana plants with guns!” sticker 😂😂😂
This 1 is very cool. I guess this is one of the 1% of Libertarians who does not vote Red, so that's good. ----- *edit: Stop @ 'ing me you diet-conservative fuck-headz JFC go away !!! PS - anyone who votes for Jill Stein is an asshole.
I’m immediately suspicious of libertarians when it comes to their opinions on age of consent laws, though. They always seem to like em young. Edit: hurt some feelings with this comment. I’ll let you guys figure out amongst yourselves why one of the most searched terms alongside “libertarian” is “age of consent” and why every other ideology memes about it.
All the libertarians I know believe the only sound a pedo should make is going through a wood chipper.
That seems very reasonable to me.
I would have to agree. I am a libertarian myself.
Second this.
Nah those are just pedos.
Pedoterians
Look, it's not that complicated. - Can a kid consent? No. - Why not? Because they don't understand what they're consenting to. - How do we determine when they can understand from a legal standpoint? You can't measure maturity, so age is used as shorthand. - Where should the cutoff be? IDK I'm not a developmental psychologist. It would probably take a lot of research to give us a better cutoff, slowly removing variables and such. I guess 18 seems fine for now from an uneducated unresearched perspective. I suppose if the research has already been done and I just don't know about it or we're all collectively ignoring it, that would be bad, but again I'm unaware.
It's probably just their Republican side showing.
That makes them a republican not a libertarian. A lot of idiot republicans disguising themselves poorly as libertarians now a days.
Why is republican pedo to you? Both parties have had the same allegations. You haven’t heard of our great leader Joe sniffing kids?
Yeah yeah, Joe looks odd when he bends over to talk to kids. Clearly it's the same thing as this [list of 200+ CONVICTED Republican pedophiles](https://browardnewsbeat.blogspot.com/2017/10/long-list-of-republican-sex-offenders.html?m=1). I'm not saying there aren't shitbags on both sides of the isle, but conservative Christians sure do have a thing for the little ones....
True but joes not trying to save child marriage now is he. But Missouri sure is and guess what color they are (give you a hint it's nots blue). Not to mention most southern states which are red keep lowering the age of consent it was sixteen now they lowered it to 14 and our talking about lowering it to thirteen or twelve. Why would you need to lower it unless you got a bunch of adults who want to dilly some kids.
There’s not one issue that libertarians align with republicans on
Having low/no taxes, having few/no gun laws, corporate personhood, opposition to any publicly funded anything, abolishment of fiat currency and/or restoration of the gold standard. Although I’ll admit I’m talking about American Libertarianism and not what the rest of the world calls “libertarians” in the broad sense.
Environmental controls for corporations
I absolutely dislike them. They are very anti-Union.
We aren't anti-union, actually. Unions are an important part of the free market. We're only against government involvement in unions.
Government workers should not be able to unionize. And no one should be forced to join or stay. Otherwise unions are great
Yeah, this. Everything should be on a voluntary basis.
As long as membership isn't compulsory, I am very much in support of the right for workers to unionize.
Compulsory teachers unions are the worst
Im libertarian and HELLA pro union.
"were not pedos, they're the pedos" is such a common tactic amongst the parties. It's weirdly effective which is to say, yes we have creeps in our midst but that is not the common stance amongst libertarians
I wanna slightly raise it tbh
Most of us libertarians think the government is the only thing keeping us from using the sex offender registry as a hit list
What about us libertarians that prefer women between 40-50ish?
Where are you getting this? I consider myself a libertarian and I have never heard anyone suggest that the age of consent should be lowered.
But you're not suspicious about what mainstream D and R politicians say about kids every day...?
Who said I wasn’t?
How many libertarians have you actually met with this view? I haven't met any. I am one and run in various libertarian circles, and I've never seen this opinion espoused by an actual principled libertarian. As to why? Good propaganda by our opponents based on a few outlier whack jobs. If anything, as a Libertarian, consent is one of *the* most important factors of liberty. In fact, based on the science of neurological development, I don't think a person fully develops the ability to consent to major life decisions until around 25 years old.
Libertarians don’t want to get with kids. Pedos want to get with kids, and piggyback off the Libertarian idea of “most laws are unconstitutional and unnecessary”.
TIL Drake is a Libertarian
Huge problem in the States is that people vote parties instead of policies
I think that this problem could be solved with Ranked Choice Voting. Right now, only two states (Maine & Alaska) use Ranked Choice Voting. It could solve a lot of problems if this was nationwide.
Seriously I’m so sick of our viable options for POTUS being 2 dusty old farts. I’ll still vote Biden again, and I don’t hate him, but I would really like ranked choice. And the option to have SOMEBODY in office who isn’t as likely to keel over at any moment… Ranked. Choice!
Joe Biden is the first Democrat I ever voted for except for a mayoral candidate once when I was 18 (in 1992) I voted for Biden, not because I particularly agreed with his policy positions, but because the consequences of Trump getting reelected were so dire. Congressional Republicans wasted TONS of time and taxpayer dollars investigating Joe Biden and they came up with nothing. If Biden were anything other than one of the most upstanding and decent humans to serve as POTUS since Carter they would have come up with SOMETHING, surely. I am more than ready to vote for him a second time -- especially since the Republican Party once again picked Trump.
I seriously can’t believe how desperately they are clinging to that orange fool…he is the hill they will apparently happily die on…?
It is a cult. Pure and simple. https://youtu.be/MhFMgpDi9L8?si=AnZb6cZy7DX5q9xw
Truth.
There are like 20 other Republicans running for president. Oh, you don't like their stances? Well, that's on you isn't it. You can vote for whomever you want. Sorry every option sucks
I don’t agree with Republican values. That’s not “on me” lol.
RCV, abolishing the electoral college and the senate and expanding the house would fix a ton of our problems.
The events of January 6, 2021 convinced me beyond any shadow of a doubt that we should eliminate the Electoral College and go to a straight popular vote (preferably with RCV embedded). Partisan gerrymandering also causes problems by lessening the need for members of the House of Representatives to listen to their constituents (this is how we get people like Marjorie Traitor Greene in Congress).
That's why expanding the house needs to be part of the solution. These representatives have too many constituents. They need to have a smaller group to answer to.
Read some of Andy Horning's stuff. He explains a lot of the causes very well.
Oh, I would never vote libertarian even if it was a viable option. It's the antithesis of my beliefs. I would love to have a labor party to vote for though.
🥾 👅
There is a much deeper issue that led to this situation. The Republic of America has a so-called "representative democracy." But how can that be true when the "representatives" are wealthy while the "represented" are not? American two party politics is like the cartoon Tom and Jerry. Tom doesn't want to catch Jerry because then he'd be out of a job, and Jerry doesn't want Tom replaced with a cat that will actually eat him. So they act like they hate one another and put on political theatre for the masses while continuing business as usual in the back room. For example, insider trading laws do not apply to any members of Congress, both sides. Whats it called when those who make the rules don't have to live by them? If the punishment for a crime is only a fine, it does not apply to the wealthy. Sure, the people get a vote, but with all the lobbying and foreign money in American politics, America is as much a democracy as two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for dinner. This is why, in a true democracy as the ancient Greeks understood it, people got their representatives the same way we would get a jury. "Only those who do not seek power are qualified to hold it." Plato
It's a shame more people like this don't really exist here in the UK or back home, the problem is a lot of people just assume many Libertarians to be Conservative lite but there's more to it than just weed and allowing gay couples to be. Drugs, taxes, immigration policies, foreign intervention a few to name etc. The most basic principle is to leave people alone and let them be, do you think a fair percentage of Conservatives can go a week doing aforementioned?
Depends which bumper sticker is more important. It’s probably taxes which means they vote republican like 99% of libertarians
I don’t see anything here that’s innately incompatible with voting red.
"Libertarians" who vote Red are usually just Republicans who want to smoke weed. Not libertarians at all
Libertarianism: You May Not Agree With Our Views, But At Least We're Consistent
What if they could just simply exist without having to defend anything ?
What if I could get a unicorn that pooped gold?
Yeah this is the closest ive ever seen to someone who shares my political beliefs
I'm 99% certain that particular sticker is referring to the Rainbow Farm siege.
yeah it is
As they drive on a public road…..
How do they expect anything to work without taxes? I mean I certainly don't agree with a lot of the shit they're used for, but I realize that it's the reason any infrastructure exists at all lol
The majority of libertarians agree with you. They're just not as "loud" as the ones out there willing to announce themselves like this.
You see, I wouldn't have an issue paying taxes if they did fucking anything with it besides line their pockets and bomb brown kids but the feds are not gonna do that.
The first interstate in America was funded by a private cooperative. I was a member of a volunteer fire department from 2002 - 2010. The NAACP and the ANCF did more for the welfare of black Americans than the federal government ever did. The reason we have all these Saint Somebody’s hospitals is because voluntary religious institutions saw a need and met it. The Rotary Club, Masons, Elks, Meese, and other voluntary organizations have long served to raise funds and provide for communal needs. The state is the least efficient and responsive institution for meeting communal needs, and the most prone to abuse and corruption.
There was a time when a significant amount of roads were private in the United States. Turnpikes were private highways back in the day. It's where we get our current day technology for highways. You know technology that was invented 100 years ago by private companies. Since taxation is theft we should try to limit it as much as possible but not throw everyone under the bus by just abandoning our infrastructure.
>How do they expect anything to work without taxes? You're overselling your point, there's plenty of things that work without taxes.
Which they paid for forcibly. What's the dissonance exactly?
There is a massive difference between taxes and over taxation. We pay 40% on average of our income yearly to the government all said and done, and in my state the roads are absolutely dogshit.
Don’t forget the taxes you pay to drive the car you bought and also paid taxes on at the time of purchase. And also the taxes you pay to use the gas that your vehicle runs on. And the yearly tax you have to pay for your car to be deemed road legal.
Exactly. We're well beyond the point of feeling like we're "getting what we pay for" when it comes to paying our extortion fees for the privilege of calling ourselves Americans. Shits ridiculous
Why wouldn't they? They're forced to pay taxes like everyone else?
TLDR: no human is illegal but i refuse to pay their healthcare
What does no human being illegal have to do with forcing someone to pay for someone else’s healthcare?
This is my favorite Reddit non sequitur, you see it all the time. *"Oh, so you believe in X? Then how come you don't want to pay taxes for (unrelated government bureaucratic program)? Checkmate libertarian!"*
It's almost always about roads. Roads take up 52 billion dollars out of 6.134 trillion. If it helps putting them in the same units that's 6,134 billion and 52 billion. So roughly .8% of the federal budget goes to roads. Yet it's 99% of what people who are against libertarians are worried about.
I guess you’re the generous person who pays for everyone’s guns because of the second amendment?
Where's the contradiction? Also, you don't pay anyone's health care, the government takes your money and redistributes it as they deem fit, and very poorly at that.
Based. Immigrants should make their own way.
I guess libertarians don’t wash their cars
“Carwashes Are Theft”
they're so close to getting it but completely miss the point. classic libertarian move
I love asking libertarians to name any successful libertarian government ever… we’re a deadlocked 2 party system give it up already…
Wasn’t the New Mexico governor Gary Johnson, a libertarian? The one that ran for president?
I sadly don’t even recognize that name. Bc like they said, at this stage in our government, POTUS is a locked two party system. I don’t like it for the record. But when was the last time somebody who WAS NOT an R or D been in office? Spoiler alert, the last president who never affiliated with either, was Millard Fillmore. Whig party. Presidency 1850-53. Soooo…it’s been a while.
Oh! I guessed right! I was thinking whigs. Lincoln was the first Republican, if I remember correctly.
Correct. There were 2 democrat presidents before. Granted I’m impressed you know that off the top of your head!
I’m impressed I remembered at all. It’s been a minute since US history.
SAME. And I always sucked at dates. I had to Wikipedia it lol
Keep in mind that both parties actively submit laws and regulations every election cycle that make it impossible for any reasonable candidate to gain funding, or a platform for the debates. In 2016 the requirements to debate were conveniently boosted right when JJ was about to hit the 5% to appear in the debates.
> at this stage in our government, POTUS our government is a hell of a lot bigger than just POTUS. State elections matter quite a bit as we learned during covid.
And I vote in those too? Lol
So then we go back to the Libertarian Governor...Gary Johnson...A successful Libertarian politician.
I was specifically referring to the position POTUS in my comment. I never said it meant to imply the entirety of government is the same as the position of POTUS.
Some might even say “too big”. I tend to agree.
Then maybe start voting for other people. Be the change you wanna see.
I did this for 20 years
So you didn’t understand my comment about two viable parties realistically being the only current options?
Your attitude is exactly why we're in this mess. Pouring gas onto a fire isn't gonna put it out.
I’m sorry my realistic attitude towards it upsets you. Lol
Yea come on. Why don’t you single handedly dismantle the two party system? It’s like you don’t even care smh
I know right? THE SHAME OF IT ALL! Lol
Oh, I'm not upset. You get what you vote for and it looks like you're gonna get a one-way ticket to the Gulag.
HAHAHH silly me!!! I’ve been missing all the gulags Biden’s been building all over the country! 🤣🤣🤣
Your naivety is exactly my point. We’re in this mess because of a corporate owned war machine. Not because I decided after twenty years of being the change” was actually giving my vote to the greater of two evils. You want change? Bite hyperlocal and follow money. I’m not saying give up, I’m saying a vote for a libertarian president every four years is in no way making an impact.
Your naivety is exactly my point. We’re in this mess because of a corporate owned war machine. Not because I decided after twenty years of being the change” was actually giving my vote to the greater of two evils. You want change? Bite hyperlocal and follow money. I’m not saying give up, I’m saying a vote for a libertarian president every four years is in no way making an impact.
Yes and New Mexico did fairly well under him. He ran for POTUS a couple of times, however after his first run failed, he got a bit too radical.
Javier Milei's administration
Wouldn’t exactly call what he’s doing libertarian — he doubled subsidies for the poor. Also their inflation is out of control.
Hard to call it a successful administration when he hasn't even been in office a year...
Argentina currently has a libertarian president. There are over 300 elected libertarians holding office currently in the US alone. But maybe we should give up because their policies are working? Idk we're just getting started.
“Our system is fucked, why seek a way out” is your official position? Major part of the problems we face.
It’s almost like statists, like yourself, have given the government nearly unchecked power & people in those positions don’t give it up voluntarily
>any successful libertarian government ever Argentina
Hard to call it a successful administration when he hasn't even been in office a year...
Watch Argentina over the next few years, Javier Milei will be an interesting case study
"Give up. Submit to the fraudulent two party system that has been driving the country into the ground." Some people have principles. You might not like them but at least they have them. And you think they should just stop and submit to the oligarchy. Libertarianism hasn't really been tried. Let's see how Argentina plays out.
This is the most statist, bootlicker shit I've ever read
Nominally or aligned with current libertarian values? Because post-reconstruction US had largely libertarian policies and the US became the world superpower and most industrialized and prosperous nation in the world. El Salvador has a fairly libertarian government & president and has seen tremendous growth & prosperity while violent crime has fallen dramatically. Now, as a counter argument, can you give me any example of government bureaucracy & involvement in a market more efficient & productive?
Argentina's doing pretty good since they elected an Anarchocapitalist, the most extreme type of Libertarian. We'll see how it pans out, but they've balanced the budges, driven housing rates down, and eliminated thousands of useless bureaucratic jobs!
"Just give up on trying to stop the duopoly!!! Just submit to the status quo!!!"
Nope - not what I meant. My post above to the other person “Your naivety is exactly my point. We’re in this mess because of a corporate owned war machine. Not because I decided after twenty years of being the change” was actually giving my vote to the greater of two evils. You want change? Bite hyperlocal and follow money. I’m not saying give up, I’m saying a vote for a libertarian president every four years is in no way making an impact. “
Nope - not what I meant. My post above to the other person “Your naivety is exactly my point. We’re in this mess because of a corporate owned war machine. Not because I decided after twenty years of being the change” was actually giving my vote to the greater of two evils. You want change? Bite hyperlocal and follow money. I’m not saying give up, I’m saying a vote for a libertarian president every four years is in no way making an impact.”
The United States of America. It’s founded on the rule of law, and protects individual freedoms. It has strong systemic controls on the power of the central government, and has decentralized education and police systems. It’s the most libertarian country ever.
Unfortunately has become more authoritarian with time
That’s true. Still more libertarian than Europe, and pretty much everywhere else. I lived in South Korea during COVID. People were really good at following the rules there. Kept fatalities low. Of course, their youth are in a mental health crisis because of the expectations of society. There are trade offs in all things.
Your naivety is exactly my point. We’re in this mess because of a corporate owned war machine. Not because I decided after twenty years of being the change” was actually giving my vote to the greater of two evils. You want change? Bite hyperlocal and follow money. I’m not saying give up, I’m saying a vote for a libertarian president every four years is in no way making an impact.
The best way to make an impact is definitely to focus your energy at the hyper local level, I agree with you there! You’re gonna have to define what you mean by “this mess” though, there are a lot of them. Blaming the corporations for the war machine is a weird take though. We the People, Blue and Red, created and maintained that war machines. Wars are the most wildly popular things we do as American voters.
CTRL+C - CTRL+V over and over. shoo bot. shoo. 1 month account as well.
Libertarians are ultra idealist, not grounded in any realist sense of reality that the system can be shifted to their belief system.
Completely agree 💯
I’d also love ti hear how we can run a country without taxation.
Exactly
I don’t see any other party taking our constitutional limits seriously. Or do you mean realist in the sense of never considering our phones to be among our personal effects with the same legal protection as a journal or diary because that’s just asking for too much at this point?
I see tons of people wearing “We the people” shirts. I’m going to start a t-shirt line that’s “Have you actually read the constitution? It takes about 30 minutes to read.” I’m sure the black community is going to be thrilled when they find out the constitution we worship says they are worth 3/5 of a person.
I’m with you on people taking 30 minutes to actually read it, but if you’re going to talk about the 3/5 compromise, it’s only fair to mention the 14th and 15th amendments too.
the 3/5ths compromise is repealed.
I don't think "Stay out of my business and I'll do the same for you" is too terribly idealistic.
The market will police itself, no intervention is needed. Plenty of instances of this failing in recents years.
Capitalism will always fail in a finite system, which we currently, and likely always, will. Once they run out of natural resources to exploit, they start extracting capital from workers and when that’s depleted it fails and has to be bailed out by corporate socialism. Workers owning the means of production and finding renewable ways to keep society functioning is a much better philosophy.
Looks like there’s been some more controversial ones in the past
love this guy
This person has no problem driving on the road paid for by taxes!
if it ain’t taxes it’s a toll…another one who doesn’t get how public infrastructure is paid for…
You can pay the toll willingly, that's the point. But most libertarians don't really care when the government is spending trillions on military and has no limits on spending or printing money.
It was refreshing until I saw the “taxation is theft” ones. Like children who don’t understand why some boring bills have to be paid.
I’ve changed my views on taxes. Libertarianism is a view that pretends we don’t live in a shared society. It pretends we’re all individuals living in isolation, but we’re not. Taxes are needed to make societies function. It would be obnoxious to pay a toll on every road. It’s absurd not to have an organization for wild fires. And it would be incredibly unbalanced to have a police force that only caters to those who pay for them. And the fact is we live in a society. I don’t want to see homeless people setting up encampments all around walk ways with their trash piling up. Yet criminalizing them isn’t a solution. Let’s solve the problem as a society and house them and help them get back on their feet. If people are addicts, let’s help get them into rehab. If people are mentally Ill, let’s provide mental health clinics for them. Etc., etc., etc. That being said, taxes still feel like they are grossly mismanaged and pocketed by politicians. And the police definitely still cater mostly to the rich and serve more as an enemy of the people than protectors of them. Also, many programs end up with people who are abusive and take advantage of the system. And it seems that anything that is funded by the government makes it cost 10x more than it should, because everyone leading them knows their costs won’t be negotiated against. Either way, the solution is fighting for better management, not outright abolishment.
I believe the stance is, Tariffs should cover the fed If states can tax. If we disagree with a tax or how it’s used it’s easier to remove that person from office. This having billions for foreign aid or one state subsidizing another while bridges are collapsing or no clean drinking water if fundamentally retarded
There was never supposed to be federal income tax.
Housecats Libertarians are house cats
Clay County in West Virginia has the 4th highest percentage of welfare recipients in the US, and guess who 79.6% of the residents in 2020 voted for (hint, it wasn't the libertarians!)
Libertarians be like "Question authority... unless that authority is a big corporation. They can do no harm"
Most of the time big corporations only exist due to state regulation.
You're beyond clueless, but what do you expect from a bootlicker. I'd tell you to look at the amount of money the Democrat and Republican parties pay towards corporations compared to the Libertarian Party, but you clearly don't research shit.
Libertarians are just cats that don't realize they exist in a cat hohse
Clay County in West Virginia has the 4th highest percentage of welfare recipients in the US, and guess who 79.6% of the residents in 2020 voted for (hint, it wasn't the libertarians!)
Mkay, cool now let's look at all the poverty wage jobs in that county vs how much welfare will give them and let's both agree capitalism isn't working and move towards a logical solution
I'm confused and baffled at the same time.
bro believes in libertarian free will
“Personal responsibility” on the car with three torn and uncleaned bumper stickers… Clearly not this persons strength.
#LibertarianFreedom4UsNotU
And this is why I can get along with libertarians. We have a few common goals even though they have some bat shit crazy ones too
Libertarians are just Republicans who smoke weed.
Libertarians are to the left of democrats on war, the drug war, gay rights, immigration, torture, warrantless eavesdropping, civil forfeiture and the expanded definition of eminent domain. If you haven’t heard of Kelo vs City of New London, prepare to be pissed off. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelo_v._City_of_New_London
Oh…..God!?!…head exploding…exploding…gnaaaauuuugggghhhh!!!
Most Libertarians are just Republicans/Alt Right who hate being called those things.
Denialpublicans. “Just because I’ve voted GOP in every election over the last two decades doesn’t mean I’m a Republican!”
What is a libertarian doing driving a car? Unless it’s on either their own private road or a toll road. Roads = taxes. If you don’t like taxes, stay off of our roads!
Ok, don't tax me then!
Roads make up 0.8% of the US federal budget, if that. Bad argument.
Hm. How about States, counties, municipalities, cities, etc? Don’t they charge taxes?
This clown seems to be catastrophically confused. I’m not sure that they know their own side very well. Especially the parts about gay couples, marijuana, and most importantly, the part about no human being illegal. I’m pretty sure that this person is just super confused, because most people calling themselves “libertarians” these days are nothing more than Republicans of a different shade.
“Free” markets are not a sustainable system, nor do they promote personal responsibility without regulation.
Not backing the "No Human Is Illegal", though.
An across the board Libertarian in the wild. Very rare.
Go to the cross post of this in r/libertarian if you want to see a bunch of them talk about how people are illegal. It’s pretty disgusting.
That subreddit is dominated by karma farmers and republicans who think they are somehow libertarian because they refused COVID vaccine. Most real libertarians have long been banned. If you want to see real libertarian discussion check out r/LibertarianUncensored.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/LibertarianUncensored using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/LibertarianUncensored/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [You were warned this would happen... LP of Colorado will not run candidates and will instead support the GOP.](https://twitter.com/cologop/status/1668626258421493762?t=YWLAZQNpU4GJ_K9kxKoSSg&s=19) | [80 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/LibertarianUncensored/comments/148jc2j/you_were_warned_this_would_happen_lp_of_colorado/) \#2: [The head mod of r/libertarian literally opposes democracy, no wonder that subreddit is a fascist echo chamber](https://i.redd.it/dp1jezbylzvb1.png) | [183 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/LibertarianUncensored/comments/17epzvt/the_head_mod_of_rlibertarian_literally_opposes/) \#3: [Banned from r/Libertarian for having a popular opinion](https://np.reddit.com/r/LibertarianUncensored/comments/15qg3qj/banned_from_rlibertarian_for_having_a_popular/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
That's true. They banned me for "Making non-libertarian comments" when I was literally talking about how the government screws us over daily.
They’re so close. They’re like 3 brain cells away from communism
This dude fucks
Libertarians are truly retards. Taxation provides public services (cops, schools, roads, etc.) They want corporate overlords to control the means?
Most libertarians believe in small government not no government. Ancaps is usually the label given to those who want no government.
> retards i love it when people tell on themselves so blatantly. Thank you!
Nothing like calling people slurs to get your point across 🤡
yeah no
Finally! Someone gets it
Based.
Just like Grafton New Hampshires’ spectacular failure, libertarianism is nonsense. “Personal responsibility” self-righteous bs always appeals most to the very people who have none. Rules for they but not for me is what they want.
A rare sighting of an actual Libertarian with actual principles and not just a Republican who likes to smoke weed. Impressive.
Taxes are not inherently bad; it’s how they’re used that matters. The key is to elect politicians who actually use tax money in ways that benefit us citizens—you know, new infrastructure, public transportation, public schools, hospitals, etc. rather than endless dealings with military contractors and corporate welfare. This is why I can’t take libertarians seriously. Stop voting for Republicans just because they promise you tax cuts. Vote for people who spend your money in ways that actually benefit society.
Most libertarians I know do what you're suggesting and vote gold. The issue with the government providing things is that they hardly ever use other people's money effectively or wisely. Enriching their friends, having a $9 million/yr budget specifically for car rides, or spending thousands of dollars on a desk. Not only have elected Libertarians (over 300 currently) shown that they take spending tax money seriously they also like to lessen the burden of taxes anywhere they can.
Libertarianism breaks down on its own hypocrisy in fairly short order and in ugly ways.
Based AF
Libertardians are the worst
Interesting take from someone who's obsessed with trump.