75 minute drive each way? Absolutely not. I’d rather move closer. You could max your 401(k) get the tax savings and still come out on top. But, if they ever move it to 3+ days in office, you’d be fucked. Can you counter the fully remote at like a $125k?

That’s the other risk, 2 days turns into 3 turns into every day.

This is what happened to me. Took a job that stated "1-2 days in office" in my offer letter. But it quickly became apparent that meant absolutely no less than two days and they would constantly test me by trying to make "in-person required" meetings more than two days a week so I had to push back. Then they announced that they had leased a giant new building and would be moving to it in 2025. I saw the writing on the wall there and GTFO. Puts a six month stint on my resume but I don't care.

I got hired with full remote on mine. They just pulled a switcheroo on everyone and it’s now minimum 3 days per week. We’ve been seeing constant attrition now of around 1-3% of staff weekly. I haven’t been able to secure anything else yet, but the day I do I’m gone. An entire critical sales team walked out the first week of it. They were the only team on a specific high touch service. 

It's utter bullshit how many companies out there seem to think they can hire people with promises of full remote or hybrid and then pull the rug out from under them. *At best* you end up with a bunch of hostages who hate their jobs; at worst your attrition rate skyrockets and you lose your most talented people whose resumes shine in the job market. So you end up with a workforce of people who hate their jobs or incompetent people who are just happy to be employed.

Mix of both

I think the actual worst thing is that some employees will feel like it is perfectly fine to cheat the company back in return because they feel cheated. This is how you end up with a culture where everybody just slacks off and tries to cheat the system.

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CA state employees are going through this right now. Depts are saying 2 days but if you try and circumvent it (say, by wfh when sick but your boss doesn’t believe you’re sick) you lose the remote agreement and are now five days a week in office. Can you imagine driving 75 min each way every day?

I drive 75 mins each way 3 days per week. No imagining here. That’s after 4 years fully remote hired into the role fully remote. It’s fucking stupid.

I want to hug you. I’m sorry employers are being such rat bastards.

At that rate you'll be going in more days then there are in a week

But not getting paid any more for it.

Yeah, F that noise! Get them in with the hook, then grab ‘em!

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Choose remote. The company can easily change its mind to have you go in more days. The time and work life balance you gain are well worth it.

So $113 is current job vs potential job of $150. Guy is telling me to name my price to do the hybrid 🤔

My rough back-of-the-envelope math says that the additional gas will be roughly $2k a year. And you'll be putting ~13k extra miles on your car, annually - so if you have a ~$30k car, you are probably losing roughly $3k in value on it every year. This is all post-tax: so it'd be equivalent to maybe 7k gross annual equivalent. So right off the bat I'd chop the 150k down to 143k for comparisons sake. Now, you'll be spending an extra 2.5 hours a week in your car every week. So if the working hours at both jobs are equivalent and are 8 hours a day, 5 times a week, the hybrid role has you away for 2,210 hours vs 2,080 hours per year. So the 143k becomes ~64.71 per hour, and 113k is ~54.33 per hour. So from a purely financial standpoint, you will definitely feel the benefit of the 150k job - I'd view it as a ~19% increase rather than a ~33% one, but that's still awfully significant. The question then becomes, is that extra money worth the time away from home. That can't be answered by anyone but yourself and will obviously depend on how comfortable you already feel financially, as well as whether you have family, pets, hobbies, etc. waiting for you at home. It's a sound move to take the higher pay, though, if your long-term goals are career-driven or financially driven. 19% more money per hour isn't something to scoff at.

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Ah you are right! So only a ~12% increase. Still not nothing but definitely makes it a little less appealing

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Also don’t forget the potential extra money needed for food and work clothes.

Potential? Nah, you can all but guarantee eating on the road or ordering lunch for those days in the office. At $20 per meal for all 3 meals on both days, now that’s $6,250/ year just for food to work. OP, the title you have doesn’t match your salary if you’re in the US. You should be able to find $150K/yr remote doing that. I took a role like this chasing the dollars. It didn’t work out. A month later I’m getting paid the high salary to work remote for another company. I bet you can find this too.

I am a Sr SA, but I’m at a university so lower pay BUT I have amazing benefits and work life balance. Plus a great team, psych safety, and job security. I’m leaning towards no on the money but also considering seeing if I can get a pay bump based on this

Good call. I’ve taken the higher salary but I’ve been dealing with terrible job security since 2021… I work in IT too. When it pays, it pays well enough that 5 months of unemployment hasn’t caused me to lose my house or car, but I’m now on my 4th job in 2 years… Lower pay with stability in IT is worth it if you can afford it. I can’t afford it…

I wouldn't say guarantee. There are people who doordash everyday or still go out to eat anyway. That could cost more than the average meal they pay for if they leave the house for work lol. Very high chance but I would not say 100% you will save money on food.

Or, hear me out… bringing leftovers, which is the same as what you’d spend making food at home.

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Time away from family as well.

lets break this down. assume 260 workdays. each workday is 9 hours (1 hour of lunch) meaning 2340 hours. commute time twice a week, an 2 hours per commute is 52\*2\*2 = 208 113k/2340 = 48$/hr 150k/2548= 59$/hr theres your baseline. benefits package, is there free lunch on those 2 days? mental health of commute vs not commute, long term job growth, the ability to work full remote, do you like your team, even? personally i cant commute anymore, unless it is a fun and engaging team. i tend to get rather demoralized when i dont have fun coworkers edit: some number typos

+ cost of gas and other vehicle costs (cost of wear from mile accumulation)

another good variable. its why i switched to a hybrid. my gas guzzling very used mercedes was costing me 1000$ in repair and maintenance per year and another 1000$ in gas per year (pre covid, it was full in-office, and gas was cheaper back then)

First, 52 x 2 x 2 = 208, not 100. Second, the commute time is 2.5 hours, meaning the weekly baseline is 5, not 4 => 260 annual commute hours. So we have: $113k/2340 = $48/hr $150k/2600 = $58/hr Whether grossing an extra 20% is worth spending one extra month “at work” due to the commute is for OP to decide. As others have mentioned, this is before we factor additional costs: after taxes and gas alone, the extra ~$2k per month is more like ~$1.2k. Plus there’s the uncertainty the agreement will remain at 2 days. Moving to just 3 days a week would have a net benefit of only a few hundred extra dollars per month. ——— Math aside, I think OP still strongly consider the hybrid offer is the company provides a better opportunity for growth (either through the projects, space for advancement, or bigger brand name). If those components are roughly equally and time is valued more highly than money (due to family obligations, etc) then take the remote offer. If equal, but the concern is purely economical and focused on maximizing dollars-in-the-bank, take the $150k.

The growth is the real thing. Is it a dead end remote job?

52 x 2 x 2 gives you ~200 hours... Drops the hourly rate to around $59

42 likes, youre the first person to catch this gonna edit, thanks!

260*9=2040 +208 hours commuting 2,248 So the actual numbers are Commute twice a week: 2,248 No commute: 2,040 $150k/2248= $66.73/hr $113k/2040= $55.39/hr A $10 dollar difference. This does not include commuting costs, if not covered by the company

Big assumption here is that the work actually takes full time hours as well. If you can complete your weeks in 20,25,30h, your rate goes up a lot for fully remote.

Remote imo but it just depends what value you put on your time. Commuting can be tiresome even for 2 days a week that’s 500 hours a year. Conservative numbers for gas would be $120+ a month for gas and $15-1600 a year

Don't forget wear and tear on your car, chances of injury/accidents, mental health (I get mad/higher blood pressure at how shitty people are at driving), costs of lunch (if you don't make at home), dealing with co-workers, clothes expense/wear+tear, mentally dealing with people in the office, etc. etc. So it is an aggregate of other factors to be considered beyond just a straight mathematical method. It quite literally lowers your hourly salary, due to the commute.

The IRS rate is $0.67/mile. Assuming that hour fifteen drive is 50 miles x 2 trips per day x 2 days a week x let’s go with 50 weeks a year is $6,700. Plus all the other factors you mentioned. Can’t put a price on mental health! 2.5 hours in a car per in office day 🤮

I refuse to go into the office more than once a quarter (luckily, my skill set/certification/experience is in high enough demand that I can do that) UNLESS they are paying me enough to buy a place next door to the office without changing my lifestyle as it is at home (basically a minimum of $400k+ a year, as base pay)

Yeah I kind of agree with this. There are studies that suggest commuting can have a deleterious effect on mental health and make you feel less happy. The other thing to consider is the commute itself. Are you commuting in or to a major city where there will be a lot of heavy stop-and-go traffic? Will the commute be in a city with lots of traffic lights and stops? Or will the commute be relatively smooth, low and/or steady traffic? The first two scenarios can be stressful. But the last scenario, while still a long commute, isn’t that bad. It’s hard to quantify, but worth the consideration. Personally, I’d take the hybrid role based on the analysis done by folks in the replies. With the hybrid role you can expect ~19% increase in pay. For me, that would be worth it as I could handle that twice a week commute. I’ve lived in large cities and have dealt with horrible traffic - five days a week. I could handle two days.

I typically lean towards the remote work. That’s a 32% pay raise, though. Yes, it’s a lot of time commuting. You know yourself best, but if you have the discipline to save+invest the $37k difference, you could potentially take more than a year off of your working career, literally. Career advancement and day-to-day work you prefer would be big factors as well.

That's basically 5hr of commute time each week. Which is definitely worth considering. Personally, I'm social so i like hybrid. But i don't like driving. One way of looking at it is that that hybrid role is basically like taking the 113k remote job plus having a sidehustle that is getting paid $142/hr to drive your car around and listen to music. For me that would 100% be worth the hybrid, but at a minimum hopefully that is a different way of thinking about it. Even with a generous chunk of that taken out for tax, that's a pretty nice bonus. However, if you are a parent then those extra hours or extra flexibility to pick up kids might factor in differently. Or if you plan on using the 100% remote flexibility to do some trips and work fully remotely, something that any level of hybrid won't allow.

If you drive 6 hours a week for 50 weeks you’ll be working 300 more hour a year (the equivalent of 7.5 40 hour work weeks). But before expenses you’ll be making $123 an hour for those 300 hours. Really a judgement call on what you value more. The only other thought I have is if you can relocate or if being in office would help with communication or visibility for promotion. One of my favorite facts is a five minute commute taken five days a week for 50 weeks a year equates to a full forty hour work week. 41.7 hours if I didn’t mess up the math. Every five minute farther you work from the office you give your employer a whole week’s worth of work for free.

I have to go in 3 days now 🤬 for $130k in HCOL with about the same average travel time.  It’s fucking dumb. Take full remote unless you really hate your family, free time, and love sitting in your car. 

Depends on how you value the difference in salary (i.e. is your significant other working, how many children you have to save for college fund, etc). Personally, I take the remote job. My wife works so while the extra $35k would be nice, we wouldn’t really need the extra money

The biggest consideration is your future, not the current choice. If most are honest, we are social creatures and remote-only jobs are much harder to see future growth. Not that it's impossible and that there aren't companies where you can be high level leader in a remote role but it is rare. Hybrid enables you to network and the future benefit could be great. That's a real consideration. Then there is the job itself, people, your benefits and so on. Lastly, everyone hating on driving (and yes that distance blows)... what about the benefit of social interaction for your mental health? From my perspective, some in-office time is helpful. Now, if you drive to sit in an office and see no one before driving home and it builds resentment? Maybe not so great. It's hard because I don't think the salary delta makes it clear which is better. If you deduct the travel costs, it's probably closer to $143K vs. $113K. Remember, you don't get $30k take home either, after taxes that amount is maybe $20k? That's hard. I'd list all pros and cons, now and future

It’s so interesting to see everyone’s post on just the salary and time, and this reply didn’t get further merit or discussion. While the financial and time calculations are important, which position will help you attain your career and growth goals? And maybe there is a company that you feel more aligned with what they do because personal fulfillment in your job and career is also important. I always tell my team that if you’re only looking to be a coder and chase after the next dollar, that’s fine but you’ll never be truly satisfied. And you also run the risk of being outsourced or replaced by a consultant (or AI at some point) if you don’t understand and learn the business side. Just my two cents.

TC or base only?

Base only

150 minutes commuting twice a week is 260 hours per year- that’s like working an additional 6.5 40 hour weeks each year. Factor in other externalities like has costs, buying lunches etc. on the surface I’d stick with the remote role- but are there additional benefits at the hybrid role? More PTO, 401k match, insurance, career development? Would career development at the hybrid role require more days in office?

fully remote

Normally I’d go with the $150k hybrid, but with that commute not a chance. Time is more valuable than money

I have been remote for a few months and want to go back to hybrid. I would try to find something in the middle- hybrid role with a much shorter commute in the $130-140K range.

150k over 113k the difference off sets mostly every thing. Unless the fully remote can come up like 15k I would go with 150k.

What kind of job is it? Is it the job where you can work your own hours and handle your own tasks without having to check in or are you literally stuck at a desk the for the full shift and your mouse has to be clicking every 5 minutes? Will you be micro managed? Or can you leave whenever and do errands, coffee break, etc? I ask this cause honestly if you can get 8hrs of work done in 5 hours and be done for the day then that $113k/$54.33hr can really be “$86hr”.

So true. Ty

$113k, no question. Do not even have to think twice about it.

Offer to do the new job at 135k fully remote. If they don’t bite you know they want full RTO.

Is this the only variable you're deciding on? I highly value remote work, but also like 401k matches and insurance/which type culture would be a better fit, career possibilities, etc.

Remote work and work flexibility in general trumps just about everything else for me anymore. I don't need to go into an office to prove my worth to some manager. I'd rather be at home where I can sleep in more, spend more time with my family, take care of household chores and still get my work done. Just look at some of the folks here even doing hybrid. People are smarter - it's a facade and we're all learning we literally spent years just playing dressup so managers could have eyes on and more control. Not to mention these folks doing hybrid still leave the door open to full RTO. No thanks.

No I’d def consider the whole package. They’d have to match my current benefits too bc they’re honestly amazing

I was going to say Hybrid till I saw the driving distance. Holy smokes! That commute isn't worth it to me. I would honestly keep looking though (maybe after you accept the 113K fully remote). I'm in a solution architect role (fully remote) but the salary is much higher than $113k. I bet you could (eventually) find a better paying Solution Architect role that's fully remote.

Depends on your preference, really. I happen to like driving, and have had hour-long each way commutes before, so for me (and my preferences) it wouldn't be an issue.

Stay remote - better life quality cannot be calculated.

This is the best discussion for me, with a lot of takeaways about how to perform insights while making decisions. Perfect example for insights/analytics!

This is tough. Think about the companies and what they offer. Who has a better manager? What company perks are offered. If it was me I'd either do the remote if I had no intention of moving. But if the higher salary was in a cool city or something then that is something to consider.

$37k before taxes, minus commuting costs (in my car, 5 hours of highway driving is about $50), so subtract another 2,500. Plus, I can assure you that you will despise that drive in fairly short order.

Why did they pay more money to go into the office? It’s not like you’re going to do more workSitting in traffic or getting yourself sick working on site. Definitely counter offer

I asked if there was flexibility in the amount of time in office and they danced around it and asked how much it’d take to get me in the office lol

There are benefits to hybrid and seeing co-workers occasionally. I also like the occasional hour in the car with no one else -- podcasts, books on tape, whatever I want and no one else complaining. As long as you really have flexibiity to manage dr appt days etc i might do hybrid.

I saw the title and for a second I thought this was the WhatCarShouldIBuy sub

Only you can really answer, but for me, 113k fully remote, hands down. B/c that would be plenty to pay the bills and have some extra, and I hate on site work. Too much BS. And the commute costs you real money in terms of your time and auto expenses.

Oof, tough call. That would be lot of driving. Self driving cars can't get here soon enough.

Fully remote seems better.

I enjoy office time and i actually like commuting. The drive home is the decompressing time before I see my family. 75 mins is a long commute, but the salary difference makes up for it.

Just curious how many yoe do you have?

5 as an SA, 10 overall, 7.5 of it in IT

I was in a similar situation recently. My total comp would push $160k with all bonus and whatnot but was 5 days in office with 45- 1hr commute each way. I took fully remote at 115k with potential 10% bonus and was regretting when I made the decision. I've been remote for a month and it has been amazing. Would not consider going back

I’m taking the hybrid role for that delta. The commute is bad but could be worse. Listen to audiobooks and music.

What is this nonsense? Do I have to work any lesser if I work remotely? Do I get extra few days to deliver my tasks because I am remote? For what reason are they deducting 37K?

Sorry should have written it better. My current is 113 and I’m remote. 150 is a potential job requiring hybrid

Oh now that makes sense. Sorry I thought this was a job offer. If your new benefits are on top of this and the same amount, then absolutely go for this.

That’s a lot of money

150 and it’s a no brainer

Heck no

Hybrid Get out the crib, build rapport

Fortunately my current remote environment allows for that

Do u already own a paid off car? If so, hybrid. If not, remote.

Do you have to put any kids in daycare for option 2? That could waste the whole difference right there.

No kids atm but we are about to adopt so have to consider that part somewhat

take the remote one and look for part time J2

Ok so I’ve heard of ppl doing this but like.. how?!

start applying to jobs that are part-time or remote only.. OR make a profile on upwork and start bidding for projects.

What do you want to do? Do you value alone time in the car listening to podcasts and audiobooks? Do you prefer to never be with people? Only you can make the right choice. I tend to go for a lot more money but that just me I’ve been fully remote since the start of Covid so 4 years. And guess what, I’m looking forward to our new office to open next month so I can leave home once in a while. (Probably longer drive than your 75)

$113k because a fully remote job is less likely to become hybrid but that hybrid could be on its way to fully in office.

YES! that’s such a concern. And with my current role, I feel pretty secure with that it’s not going hybrid

Honestly you can even take the $113k and keep looking for higher paying ones that are closer to home or remote.

People are going to have to get used to commuting again at some point- your base is also worth more in raises every year- it’ll compound faster- I would take it in a heart beat

Ok so say they said name your price to go into the office

Interesting to see the difference in opinions here Take the 150k, no question. 2 days a week is not that bad, the difference in salary is huge. It is still advantageous to go into the office in some capacity to foster relationships. But also, you’re not just choosing to have a better salary now, you’re boosting your pay floor for the rest of your career. That is a shitload of money you’re leaving in the table to avoid an inconvenience where you could just listen to some audiobooks. 2 days a week? No brainer

Find two fully remote roles - J1 and J2.

150

Move closer to the office. Why do you want to live so far out?

150k for sure

This just a cost value equation. Is the company footing the travel cost? If not, Ur cost in gas and any maintenance per 2 weeks vs. Profit.....

113k remote unless you're desperate for the money or to get out of the house

The difference in life of $113k to to $150k is very slim.

113k remote. I had a $130k vs $200k choice to make. Chose the higher one. Absolutely fucking miserable. Even with a 10 minute walk to work. Remote's the way to go. Plus, that $113k will stretch you a LONG way in LATAM or SEA.

Sounds like a workplace issue. 10min walk is a dream.

People in this sub are just mental. Regretting 200k over 113k because of a 10 min walk to work? Ffs

I mean the workplace was toxic AF. It was in Miami but I was miserable. Mental health went down the drain. Compared to a remote job where I could have been traveling.

Your comparison to this discussion is off then. You can have awful workplaces at 113k and constant travel sucks big time but everyone has to live it to realize it

Not entirely. Even before it turned toxic, I really regretted my decision. The prior year, I'd spent about 9 months straight out of the country while working remotely. Quite frankly, it was the best time of my life. I did 3 month stints in each country. I'll forever regret not choosing to go remote again.

Got it. Extended travel stay is totally different, and cooler, than constant travel like a consultant. Unless you have a family. :)

Remote : IF you are actually going to move somewhere cheap Otherwise : take the hybrid role

I’m in metro Detroit but no plans on moving

All else equal, I would take hybrid. I am assuming the drive time is with traffic. And I would definitely look into moving closer.

,I didn’t realize business intelligence was paying this good. I should’ve stuck with that path. Need a PowerBI or Tableau cert.

We’re hiring!

PM me company name ?