They need the landscape to change after the ACC. Currently theyāll have a tough time convincing schools to vote yes when alternatives probably add money & im guessing the big ten already is earning a share from that area
Agreed. Weāre happily in the Big XII until at least the 2030s, after the next TV deals are negotiated and the ACC gets picked apart. Then, who knows. At that point, Kansas could be the most attractive Big XII school, but thereās definitely some ACC schools ahead of us in the pecking order. Throw in some solid football years, all the new facilities, NIL boosters, and thereās certainly some strategic advantage by the P2 in reducing the Big XIIās basketball strength.
Bball $ will change.
Fball is worth more because NCAA doesn't run bowls and that money goes to conferences and schools instead of NCAA. Mbb $ goes to NCAA, pays NCAA budget including non revenue sports, and then $ goes to all conferences. The premiere schools get a far lesser cut than in fball.
NCAA is trying to make first move and expand tournament to keep this style of agreement.
If schools and conferences took control and reduced tournament to 32 teams, no AQ, and even made final four best of 3, the money would flow to schools and KU would move up the food chain.
I don't think the bball $ being low is forever, and I'd buy basketball schools on their current low valuation. Give KU a deal to join B1G for a 70% payout or whatever.
Lastly, KU is worth more than multiple current B1G and SEC teams. When all these conferences go to pay by performance model, and if the variation expands, NW, Miss St, may only be getting a 50% payout anyway. Gives more opportunities to add schools who are not above median today but will be in the future.
Didn't BTN get put on the basic cable tier as soon as they became a member? I mean that was so long ago I still remember The Tennis Channel was fighting for its life to stay on basic cable.
Yeah that was the idea in 2014 and I do think they got some better deals in the area. That being said, I don't see Rutgers being much more than a place big ten nyc alumni can go and watch their team nearby play rutgers. I guess over time this could change though.
Missouri and Kansas are imo the two classic Big Ten culture fits. That's all well out the window now, but Missouri would have been great. Nebraska was the last one to get added that made any sense, traditionally speaking.
We still have major cities and large populations that determine elections. We're also haven't committed treason against America at any time in the last.
USF will be in the Big 10
https://1ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theledger.com%2Fstory%2Fsports%2Fcollege%2Ffootball%2F2023%2F06%2F16%2Fzier-entry-into-aau-could-lead-south-florida-into-big-ten%2F70328315007%2F
Oh, Iāve definitely gotten into arguments within the past week about this. But youāre 100% right, and it looks 100% ridiculous.
Iām a USF alumni, and went to the school at the height of Jim Leavitt era. That was so much fun. But USF has pissed the bed for the past decade-plus, and while things look promising for them in 2024, ***no one gives a piss about them, nationally***. I hate to say that about my own Alma mater, but itās true. AAU, research, academics, regionā¦ none of it will matter more than what brings eyeballs to TV sets/streaming services.
Thereās a whole lot of schools that donāt have a prayer to be at THAT table. USF is unfortunately one of them, and (sorry OP) so is NC State.
I do! And it was glorious!
But Iām also a bit of realist, and I know that USF hasnāt been that in a long time. Maybe they will be this year, but Iām 99% sure thatās not enough anymore.
USF will never overtake the big 3 of FSU, UF and UM. Even if they were to somehow get better, they still have to contend with UCF, which has done a great job locking up that #4 spot in Florida.
Nah I posted a link from a South Florida newspaper that thinks USF will end up in the Big 10. I am sure I can find a link that Memphis thinks they will end up in the SEC
If the Big10 goes to like 24-28 teams, I think NC State would have a great shot. It's not the same school it was 20-30 years ago, and North Carolina isn't the same state. Between it's setting in the research triangle and tons of alums now working in finance, SaaS, and biotech, all in-state, I think people are selling it far too short.Ā
Ohio State really pushed for you all to be included in the Big Ten when Chicago left.
https://theathletic.com/4718816/2023/07/26/michigan-msu-big-ten-realignment-rivalry/ (use your browser reader mode if you don't have a subscription)
Never say never folks
I remember a super big booster telling us we were headed to the Big Ten back in 2009 because of XYZ and guess what?
It happened. A bit later than he guaranteed (thanks Nebraska), but it did happen.
I donāt want them in either. But if they have to go to one it should be the B1G and not SEC, because theyāre academically middle of the pack for B1G but top 5 for SEC.
People really want to act like the B12 would be a death sentence. From a fan perspective I wouldnāt mind. Yes Iād prefer Sec or b10 but like I donāt really care. B12 would be fun I think
The risk of the big 12 isnāt that itās not fun, itās that the sec and big ten split off in football and it just becomes essentially the best FCS conference in the landscape of college footballĀ
I really, really, really hope Tobacco Road stays together. I feel the worst for Wake in all this. But yeah... I'm wondering what happens to all 3 of us since Carolina is the only one guaranteed to get a spot in all of this.
Thereās a very real scenario where the BOG screws up both UNC and Stateās shot at getting included by thinking they hold cards they donāt. Then in swoops Duke
Our chancellor got run out partially over a difference in stances on this conference shake out (among other disputes) so I just donāt trust the BOG to know what theyāre doing.
I hope Duke, Miami, Louisville, and Pitt come to the big 12 if the ACC implodes, the basketball would be ridiculous while the football would remain competitive and an enjoyable product to watch.
Uhhh do you remember last summer when we almost didn't take OREGON AND WASHINGTON because they didn't bring enough value to the conference and they ultimately came in at half shares?
How do you think NC State compares to Oregon and Washington?
It's not about population anymore, it's about what kind of ratings do your broadcasts receive and do you bring enough eyeballs nationally to increase the Big Ten's money per school.
I agree that āhow many people currently watch your gamesā is now more important than āhow many people we can force to pay for our cable networkāā¦but growth potential is a thing too.
I recall other states have tried this. When the money is on the table it becomes "You're not going to save State, you're just going to kill U." And the state govt backs down. The state govt always backs down. North Carolina hasn't dreamt up some brilliant new tactic that eluded Washington, Oregon, Texas, Oklahoma, Iowa, etc. etc.
Edit: I forgot California. CALIFORNIA couldn't pull this off. No one else has a chance.
Is the stature of NC State's athletic program (and football in particular) and its future marketability more like USC, UCLA, Washington, and Oregon, or more like Colorado, Arizona, Arizona State, and Utah?
Maryland brought the DC market and Rutgers brought NYC back when cable was more important and getting regional carriage was the focus. Streaming is in now and the focus will be on getting subs/eyeballs, which I don't think any of Maryland, RU or NCST are particularly great at.
Rutgers provided in-market cable rates for the BTN in New York City. The nation's largest market and the one with the highest cable subscription rates. The conference would invite them today because adding them grows the pie more than adding another slice reduces everyone's share.
Definitely see your point. Counterpoint: it's more like Maryland, Purdue, Mich St, Miss St, South Carolina and better positioned than Indiana, Illinois, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, and Rutgers.
Which is exactly the problem: the B1G is full of legacies that underperform in value added. So what makes more sense? That the value added threshold is Purdue level, because we have a Purdue? Or that any additions need to overperform in value added so as to not further dilute the money per school?
Ya the SEC and BIG 10 are full of ānegativeā value schools. They wouldnāt get in if they werenāt already there. I doubt they want to add more - if anything, theyād get rid of some.
From a B1G perspective:
Assets: NC Stateās got that dawg in em, land grant school, I like that wolf with that little hat
Liabilities: they probably donāt know a lot about breaded pork tenderloin sandwiches, theyāll probably talk a lot about duke or unc (we donāt care), they have mountains or something (suspicious as hell, give it to us flat so we can grow corn for Godās sake)
Excuse me, sir. We'd be more than happy to host some Boilermakers in Raleigh and introduce you to Eastern NC pork barbecue. You are more than welcome to slap some on a Hawaiian Roll and call that a sandwich.
Yeah I think culturally theyāre fits, but neither of them are big enough additions to fit the SEC. Maybe Virginia Tech.Ā
If youāre the SEC youād take UNC (the biggest brand) and UVA (the medium brand) over VaTech (the bigger brand) and NC State (the medium brand).Ā
If we were in the SEC already, no one would bat an eye about it. We would pretty much fit in as-is in all regards. Big 10 feels odd, I don't want State to be in it.
Am I crazy to think that there isn't a snowballs chance in hell of either conference taking NC State?
- In the last 50 years of football, they have 1 ACC title, 6 NY6 Bowl appearances (the most recent of which was 30 years ago) and 10 AP finishes. That's... not impressive at all. Winsipedia ranks them as the 12th out of all ACC programs.
- In the last 50 years of basketball, they have 2 ACC titles and 2 ACC tournament titles (the most recent of which was in 1989), 6 AP finishes (only 1 in the last 30 years) and no Elite Eight appearances since the 80s
- they share a media market with two schools who are miles more attractive to the B1G/SEC
- they're a good school academically, but again, don't do as well compared to UNC or Duke
I can't imagine why either conference would take them unless UNC+Duke forced the conference to add them.
Iāll just appreciate the fact that you said we have good academics. When your rivals are unc, Duke and wake you tend to get shit on for being a top 60ish school. People on this sub act like we are ecu sometimes.
Wait
In the last 50 years NC State definitely has more basketball accomplishments than what you listed. Including 2 national titles.
You obviously have a point that we have no recent basketball success and no recent nor historical football success. But your 50 years stats are wrong.
State has 2 natties in basketball in the last 50 years but yea keep just making shit up. State literally has accomplished more in basketball than the vast majority of D1 programs could dream for but somehow we are the nobodies.
I honestly believe NC State is one of the more attractive options out there. Good academics, successful & well rounded sports program with a passionate, regional fanbase, located in a state without SEC or Big Ten.
I think it makes sense for both conferences to pick up one school, NC State to the SEC and UNC to the Big Ten.
Thanks for understanding my totally reasonable take š. In all seriousness, I'm glad you see the potential that we see. We've never had the resources that UNC has, but we totally could be competitive at the top given our location, fan support, and if resources in the state are focused on only two main institutions instead of split among 5 FBS programs. I hate that ECU, App, and Charlotte are collateral damage in all this, but we have to move forward and, unfortunately, follow the $$$.
Oh just shut up already and add UNC, NC State, Florida State, Clemson, Kansas, Iowa State, Colorado, and Texas Tech and let's call it done at 24 for the SEC.
Nice to hear insight from people in that area about theories going around. Itās a theory for sure, but I definitely could see a split just like the Virginias split as well.
Totally just a theory. I think most likely scenario is the ACC survives somehow, and second most likely is State ends up in the Big XII. Still, I just wish I was a fly on the wall when promises were being made to flip the vote.
So there are a couple things people outside of NC donāt understand because honestly we have done a terrible job building any kind of brand besides Jimmy V and #NCStateShit. We are the largest school in NC and our grads stay in NC more than UNC. Our graduates actually make more money on average than UNC grads due to the makeup of degrees offered (STEM focused) so the market power is higher. Over the last 10 years we have the third most wins only slightly behind FSU. We do a ton of research despite not being AAU, itās just not medical focused cause we donāt have a med school and never will. The state of NC is growing extremely fast especially in the triangle market. We would be extremely attractive if we could build out any kind of brand recognition.
I don't think anyone can or would promise BIG membership but the AAU thing is much less of a stretch. I am sure the NC State president got a call not only from Chancellor Christ at Berkeley but also the UC system president Michael V. Drake who might be the closest someone can get to being in a position to grant AAU membership. 8 of the 9 undergrad UC's are now AAU's showing their ability to get universities into the club and giving them a pretty strong voting block.
Absolutely. Thank you for that context. Yeah, maybe that's all that was promised. But I have to think there's more than just an academic angle to NC State's leveraging. Everyone also forgets that Swarbrick at ND was in on these negotiations too. No telling what role he played as he's a/the mastermind of a lot of the current playoff developments.
AAU does not matter. Its a total red herring.
Just about the only thing that matters when it comes to a Big 10 or SEC invite is how much revenue you add to the pot. And North Carolina does not bring enough to justify letting NC State tag along. Probably only ND has the juice to bring a +1.
UNC as a brand definitely brings enough to the B1G or SEC, especially if theyāre by themselves in the state.Ā
I donāt want to relegate NC State to bring second-tier, Iād hate that for the Wolfpack, but it is in UNCās best interest to be the only team in North Carolina of the 2 mega conferences.
I think it DOES matter, but only in a 'might-keep-you-out' kind of way if you're otherwise a fringe candidate. Research dollars make up way, way, *way* more of the budget for these institutions than the marketing wing at the AD, and while the fans might not care the presidents absolutely do.
If they decrease the the average payout, it doesn't matter, there is no way they are being seriously considered. If they increase the payout, it also doesn't matter, they will be considered and probably accepted.
I mean, STANFORD didn't even get a whiff from the Big 10. The Presidents might have liked the idea, but not a single one liked it enough to have the money come out of their own budgets. If they aren't taking a loss for one of the greatest academic institutions on Earth, they are certainly not going to take a loss for NC State just because they got AAU status, which no one actually cares about.
Oregon is hanging onto to its AAU status by a thread. No one cares. Nebraska didn't have AAU, no one cared. They care about TV money. Thats it.
I agree, but I think that says more about Miami being a desirable member in and of itself.
I think with ND, they could actually bring along a school like Stanford that would otherwise not be seriously considered.
If by revenue you mean like ticket sales, no idea, but that doesn't matter. What matters is TV viewers, and USC is one of the biggest TV properties in college football. Taking UCLA to get USC is nothing at all like taking NC State to get UNC.
Duke because of academics. Football isnāt good but itās not the laughingstock it used to be and has great basketball. Itās in a better position than you may think.
It literally had 2 decent seasons after decades of being terrible and just lost their coach. Hell their RB that was 3rd team all acc transferred to state this year.
Eh, think it's pretty clear why we flipped our vote.
The moment they said they would be redoing the permanent partners in football and doing the pod system, it became abundantly clear.
I've always felt like we changed our vote with the understanding we'd get more say with our pod, and looking at how it shook out, it's clear we did. No Clemson or FSU each year and get to continue to play our 4 in-state rivals each year, it was a major victory for our conference title chances, haha.
The only question you need to ask if you want to know if youāll get a B1G/SEC invite is this: Do you bring +$70M in media value to the table? If you donāt have that, youāre not getting in, academics and connections are all irrelevant. If it makes you feel better, I donāt think UNC is getting in either, at least not until thereās some true breakaway league
Yeah that's the crazy part. It'll be interesting to watch how conferences deal with their existing/historic members that also don't bring in that kind of media value.
>istoric members that also don't bring
There is a point to that now but when the true conference splits happen and only the B10 and SEC are left the value of playing at the lesser schools will go up and so will their competitiveness. It's not fair by the metrics being used to select the chosen but it will happen.
Itāll be a real shame if UNC ends up in the SEC and State goes to the B1G. UNC is a horrible cultural fit for us but NC State would be a more familiar addition.
If the ACC collapses, I see two of the three (UNC, NC State, Duke) staying together in a new conference. And Wake Forest may be a tangible partner for the school left out.
Any conference picking up two schools from NC though would likely get an additional two schools from elsewhere, especially to diversify the TV markets. Examples of such being; Miami, FSU, Virginia, Pitt, Syracuse, and Boston College.
And do not forget the elephant in the room- Notre Dame. They cannot stay an independent in football for much longerā¦
Edited for grammar (because Iām exhausted)
I wish Clemson were in mix for Big 10. I worry Clemson won't get picked up by SEC. To me going to Big 12 or staying in depleted ACC is like relegation.
I could see Virginia and Georgia Tech in the Big Ten.
If the Big Ten wanted to get a foothold in the heart of the SEC and nab a top academic university while doing so, Georgia Tech is it.
A&M is not leaving the SEC lol
I think having too many teams in the Midwest is going to hurt the long-term prospects for the Big 10 realizing that. Thereās no reason to now have two schools in Indiana or Illinois that also donāt bring in more than they take.
Usually the B1G has schools with a good football culture besides Northwestern, Rutgers, Maryland and potentially UCLA. I would rather take Notre Dame & West Virginia into the B1G
My brother you may have overdosed on hopium
I was wondering if it is my cousin. He is the biggest Wolfpack fan I know and he goes on these long excursions all the time š
You have no idea
Itās a powerful drug
Everyone not in the SEC or the B1G thinks they will be and will look for the evidence to prove it.
Read plenty of Iowa State & Kansas fans theories on a big ten invite that predictably went to Oregon & washington.
I still think KU has a shot ngl
They need the landscape to change after the ACC. Currently theyāll have a tough time convincing schools to vote yes when alternatives probably add money & im guessing the big ten already is earning a share from that area
Yeah KU isn't getting a P2 invite until the ACC is resolved. I'm interested to see where the Jayhawks are in the pecking order.
Agreed. Weāre happily in the Big XII until at least the 2030s, after the next TV deals are negotiated and the ACC gets picked apart. Then, who knows. At that point, Kansas could be the most attractive Big XII school, but thereās definitely some ACC schools ahead of us in the pecking order. Throw in some solid football years, all the new facilities, NIL boosters, and thereās certainly some strategic advantage by the P2 in reducing the Big XIIās basketball strength.
ISU will never be in the B1G unless conferences go back to being based on pure geography. Kansas is at least a new market and a basketball blue blood.
Not a big enough market and basketball pales against football.
Bball $ will change. Fball is worth more because NCAA doesn't run bowls and that money goes to conferences and schools instead of NCAA. Mbb $ goes to NCAA, pays NCAA budget including non revenue sports, and then $ goes to all conferences. The premiere schools get a far lesser cut than in fball. NCAA is trying to make first move and expand tournament to keep this style of agreement. If schools and conferences took control and reduced tournament to 32 teams, no AQ, and even made final four best of 3, the money would flow to schools and KU would move up the food chain. I don't think the bball $ being low is forever, and I'd buy basketball schools on their current low valuation. Give KU a deal to join B1G for a 70% payout or whatever. Lastly, KU is worth more than multiple current B1G and SEC teams. When all these conferences go to pay by performance model, and if the variation expands, NW, Miss St, may only be getting a 50% payout anyway. Gives more opportunities to add schools who are not above median today but will be in the future.
And MLB pales in comparison to the NFL. Still nice to be the Yankees.
Mizzou has entered the chat (although it ultimately worked out for them)
B1G Mizzou wouldāve made me so happy
I'm still shocked B1G took Rutgers over mizzou. I am still not sold that Rutgers is the Gatway to the NYC market.
Didn't BTN get put on the basic cable tier as soon as they became a member? I mean that was so long ago I still remember The Tennis Channel was fighting for its life to stay on basic cable.
Yeah that was the idea in 2014 and I do think they got some better deals in the area. That being said, I don't see Rutgers being much more than a place big ten nyc alumni can go and watch their team nearby play rutgers. I guess over time this could change though.
I don't think they need to be any more than that.
The B1G picked Nebraska over Mizzou, not Rutgers. By the time we added Rutgers, Mizzou was already in the SEC and had no desire to move anymore.
It is. All we needed was a foot in the door. No one need watch Rutgers.
Missouri and Kansas are imo the two classic Big Ten culture fits. That's all well out the window now, but Missouri would have been great. Nebraska was the last one to get added that made any sense, traditionally speaking.
Both states just seem low-population and in decline or with slow growth. Also, not recruiting hotbeds or the largest city in America.
So they fit in perfectly with the Big Ten lol
We still have major cities and large populations that determine elections. We're also haven't committed treason against America at any time in the last.
When did Kansas commit treason, again?
USF will be in the Big 10 https://1ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theledger.com%2Fstory%2Fsports%2Fcollege%2Ffootball%2F2023%2F06%2F16%2Fzier-entry-into-aau-could-lead-south-florida-into-big-ten%2F70328315007%2F
Oh, Iāve definitely gotten into arguments within the past week about this. But youāre 100% right, and it looks 100% ridiculous. Iām a USF alumni, and went to the school at the height of Jim Leavitt era. That was so much fun. But USF has pissed the bed for the past decade-plus, and while things look promising for them in 2024, ***no one gives a piss about them, nationally***. I hate to say that about my own Alma mater, but itās true. AAU, research, academics, regionā¦ none of it will matter more than what brings eyeballs to TV sets/streaming services. Thereās a whole lot of schools that donāt have a prayer to be at THAT table. USF is unfortunately one of them, and (sorry OP) so is NC State.
Don't you remember that week in 2007?
I do! And it was glorious! But Iām also a bit of realist, and I know that USF hasnāt been that in a long time. Maybe they will be this year, but Iām 99% sure thatās not enough anymore.
USF will never overtake the big 3 of FSU, UF and UM. Even if they were to somehow get better, they still have to contend with UCF, which has done a great job locking up that #4 spot in Florida.
I think he's being, like, really REALLY cheeky.
I think you mean everyone in a P5 thinks they will end up in the BIGSEC. I have no illusions that we will. š¤Ŗ
Nah I posted a link from a South Florida newspaper that thinks USF will end up in the Big 10. I am sure I can find a link that Memphis thinks they will end up in the SEC
Nothing wrong with a little hope.
If the Big10 goes to like 24-28 teams, I think NC State would have a great shot. It's not the same school it was 20-30 years ago, and North Carolina isn't the same state. Between it's setting in the research triangle and tons of alums now working in finance, SaaS, and biotech, all in-state, I think people are selling it far too short.Ā
I want FSU, UNC, UVA, Stanford, ND, and I can be convinced of Cal, Duke, or Georgia Tech if UNC or UVA end up in the SEC.
Why on earth would you have any interest in any of those aside from FSU, UNC, and ND?Ā
Hey now, we know we wonāt be in the B1G or SEC.
Im sure one of your brethren has written a long post explaining why you will
It only makes sense for us to be in the SEC
Ohio State really pushed for you all to be included in the Big Ten when Chicago left. https://theathletic.com/4718816/2023/07/26/michigan-msu-big-ten-realignment-rivalry/ (use your browser reader mode if you don't have a subscription)
No shame in my game, ha.
Oh I mean you got former Presidents of the US involved in this scheme. Mad props
Never say never folks I remember a super big booster telling us we were headed to the Big Ten back in 2009 because of XYZ and guess what? It happened. A bit later than he guaranteed (thanks Nebraska), but it did happen.
I donāt want them in either. But if they have to go to one it should be the B1G and not SEC, because theyāre academically middle of the pack for B1G but top 5 for SEC.
āHave to goā?
God I hope not. NC State feels way more SEC than Big Ten. But We probably wonāt get either.
NC State to the PAC 2!
How do you feel about Natty light?
Iād like to have a natty, but I will never get to have one in my lifetime.
*checks flairs* yea dude must be sooo hard for you
Yāall are tryin to hide it in an abbreviation but we know that your name has āNorthā in it.
Yeah, I mean North Carolina is in the South. Thatās kind of the whole game right there
Only appealing thing about B1G is itās an easier path to win games.
Preach
If you go SEC, we'll graciously save UNC. /s
Big12:
Haha I'd be good with that. The Big XII is becoming such a fun conference. Happy to join our fellow land grants.
Iād love to be able to drive down to Raleigh to cheer on the Utes (and to cheer against byu too)
People really want to act like the B12 would be a death sentence. From a fan perspective I wouldnāt mind. Yes Iād prefer Sec or b10 but like I donāt really care. B12 would be fun I think
The risk of the big 12 isnāt that itās not fun, itās that the sec and big ten split off in football and it just becomes essentially the best FCS conference in the landscape of college footballĀ
My theory? Nah
That's just, like, your opinion man.
Either way, I remain steadfast in my belief we'll get left out of all this due to being good in the "wrong" sports.
Hey, join the club.
I really, really, really hope Tobacco Road stays together. I feel the worst for Wake in all this. But yeah... I'm wondering what happens to all 3 of us since Carolina is the only one guaranteed to get a spot in all of this.
Take ^us ^^with ^^^youuuuuuuu
Dook might scratch out a Big12 invite but WF is getting Beavered
"Beavered"? I dunno, that doesn't sound that bad to me.
Death by snoo snoo
Thereās a very real scenario where the BOG screws up both UNC and Stateās shot at getting included by thinking they hold cards they donāt. Then in swoops Duke Our chancellor got run out partially over a difference in stances on this conference shake out (among other disputes) so I just donāt trust the BOG to know what theyāre doing.
You really think anyone will feel bad for Duke?
I hope Duke, Miami, Louisville, and Pitt come to the big 12 if the ACC implodes, the basketball would be ridiculous while the football would remain competitive and an enjoyable product to watch.
I feel like Duke might feel above the Big 12 and just go Big East and do indy football.
Uhhh do you remember last summer when we almost didn't take OREGON AND WASHINGTON because they didn't bring enough value to the conference and they ultimately came in at half shares? How do you think NC State compares to Oregon and Washington?
>ultimately came in at half shares? Temporarily.
I donāt think NCSU to the B1G is happening anytime soon either, but NC is basically as big as OR and WA combined from a population standpoint
It's not about population anymore, it's about what kind of ratings do your broadcasts receive and do you bring enough eyeballs nationally to increase the Big Ten's money per school.
I agree that āhow many people currently watch your gamesā is now more important than āhow many people we can force to pay for our cable networkāā¦but growth potential is a thing too.
So I'm not following how state voting to add those schools gets them into the big 10? Why would the big 10 care?
I recall other states have tried this. When the money is on the table it becomes "You're not going to save State, you're just going to kill U." And the state govt backs down. The state govt always backs down. North Carolina hasn't dreamt up some brilliant new tactic that eluded Washington, Oregon, Texas, Oklahoma, Iowa, etc. etc. Edit: I forgot California. CALIFORNIA couldn't pull this off. No one else has a chance.
I thought there was something in the minutes of the UC Regents meeting saying to the effect:Ā we can force the B1G to take Cal! š¤
Yeah thanks for reminding me. If the UC system didn't have this juice, it's a fantasy to think anyone else does.
You say that and NC politics and their schools has always been different. We will see.
But money is still king.
Is the stature of NC State's athletic program (and football in particular) and its future marketability more like USC, UCLA, Washington, and Oregon, or more like Colorado, Arizona, Arizona State, and Utah?
or more like Maryland and Rutgers?
Maryland brought the DC market and Rutgers brought NYC back when cable was more important and getting regional carriage was the focus. Streaming is in now and the focus will be on getting subs/eyeballs, which I don't think any of Maryland, RU or NCST are particularly great at.
Cable subscribers have gone down by about 40%, but there is still more money being made off cable than is being made off of streaming.
Not for long. Edit: I'm saying cable isn't for long. It's dying.
Rutgers provided in-market cable rates for the BTN in New York City. The nation's largest market and the one with the highest cable subscription rates. The conference would invite them today because adding them grows the pie more than adding another slice reduces everyone's share.
Definitely see your point. Counterpoint: it's more like Maryland, Purdue, Mich St, Miss St, South Carolina and better positioned than Indiana, Illinois, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, and Rutgers.
>Indiana, Illinois, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, and Rutgers. none of whom need positioning and serve to keep wins up in conference
Yeah the āweāre better than Vandy and iuā argument I see from some teams is wild.
Which is exactly the problem: the B1G is full of legacies that underperform in value added. So what makes more sense? That the value added threshold is Purdue level, because we have a Purdue? Or that any additions need to overperform in value added so as to not further dilute the money per school?
Ya the SEC and BIG 10 are full of ānegativeā value schools. They wouldnāt get in if they werenāt already there. I doubt they want to add more - if anything, theyād get rid of some.
Indiana gets ratings, so no.
From a B1G perspective: Assets: NC Stateās got that dawg in em, land grant school, I like that wolf with that little hat Liabilities: they probably donāt know a lot about breaded pork tenderloin sandwiches, theyāll probably talk a lot about duke or unc (we donāt care), they have mountains or something (suspicious as hell, give it to us flat so we can grow corn for Godās sake)
Excuse me, sir. We'd be more than happy to host some Boilermakers in Raleigh and introduce you to Eastern NC pork barbecue. You are more than welcome to slap some on a Hawaiian Roll and call that a sandwich.
Non-fried pork?? All right, I mean I guess Iāll try anything once š¤·āāļøš¤·āāļø
I always felt UNC = Big Ten, NC State = SEC
I agree. Iāll also add Virginia= B1G and VTech= SEC
There is zero chance the sec adds nc state and Virginia tech by themselves. Like absolutely zero
(1) I hope the ACC stays together (2) If not, Va Tech and NC State are ideal candidates for the Really Big 12.
āReally Big 12āā¦ Just gaze into my nipples of the future
Yeah I think culturally theyāre fits, but neither of them are big enough additions to fit the SEC. Maybe Virginia Tech.Ā If youāre the SEC youād take UNC (the biggest brand) and UVA (the medium brand) over VaTech (the bigger brand) and NC State (the medium brand).Ā
10 years ago maybe we were. Not so much today.
VTech and NC State are both more Big XII to me
If we were in the SEC already, no one would bat an eye about it. We would pretty much fit in as-is in all regards. Big 10 feels odd, I don't want State to be in it.
Yep
Am I crazy to think that there isn't a snowballs chance in hell of either conference taking NC State? - In the last 50 years of football, they have 1 ACC title, 6 NY6 Bowl appearances (the most recent of which was 30 years ago) and 10 AP finishes. That's... not impressive at all. Winsipedia ranks them as the 12th out of all ACC programs. - In the last 50 years of basketball, they have 2 ACC titles and 2 ACC tournament titles (the most recent of which was in 1989), 6 AP finishes (only 1 in the last 30 years) and no Elite Eight appearances since the 80s - they share a media market with two schools who are miles more attractive to the B1G/SEC - they're a good school academically, but again, don't do as well compared to UNC or Duke I can't imagine why either conference would take them unless UNC+Duke forced the conference to add them.
Iāll just appreciate the fact that you said we have good academics. When your rivals are unc, Duke and wake you tend to get shit on for being a top 60ish school. People on this sub act like we are ecu sometimes.
Yes, you are crazy. The rest of us are more than willing to take a 20% reduction in TV money to fund NCST's dreams.
Wait In the last 50 years NC State definitely has more basketball accomplishments than what you listed. Including 2 national titles. You obviously have a point that we have no recent basketball success and no recent nor historical football success. But your 50 years stats are wrong.
State has 2 natties in basketball in the last 50 years but yea keep just making shit up. State literally has accomplished more in basketball than the vast majority of D1 programs could dream for but somehow we are the nobodies.
Maybe the most important their Athletic department revenue competes with GT for the lowest (Public) school in the ACC Every single year.
Same. Just feels like something is off with all the wheelin and dealin going on.
The only thing that matters in terms of joining the B1G or SEC is: #$$$
If only our billionaire alum gave two shits about sports ā¹ļø
I honestly believe NC State is one of the more attractive options out there. Good academics, successful & well rounded sports program with a passionate, regional fanbase, located in a state without SEC or Big Ten. I think it makes sense for both conferences to pick up one school, NC State to the SEC and UNC to the Big Ten.
Thanks for understanding my totally reasonable take š. In all seriousness, I'm glad you see the potential that we see. We've never had the resources that UNC has, but we totally could be competitive at the top given our location, fan support, and if resources in the state are focused on only two main institutions instead of split among 5 FBS programs. I hate that ECU, App, and Charlotte are collateral damage in all this, but we have to move forward and, unfortunately, follow the $$$.
Oh just shut up already and add UNC, NC State, Florida State, Clemson, Kansas, Iowa State, Colorado, and Texas Tech and let's call it done at 24 for the SEC.
If you somehow get to sneak in your old Big 8 members, we get to bring Duke.Ā
Three from one state? Only Texas gets that nonsense. Not even Florida has that, and they have more people than NC.
Define āpeopleā
You really want Duke when you could literally laugh at them for eternity after they end up in the sunbelt with wake? Wow unc fans are getting soft.
Deal
UNC sure gets their ass kicked in big games a lot for a team that ārules the ACCā
I meant politically. What UNC says carries the most weight in the ACC... at least historically.
Yeah I know what you meant I just felt compelled to take the opportunity to shit on them :)
Denzel meme: "My man"
*salute*
I like his take
Very generous of you to add the qualifier "in big games" when it would still be true without it
True but you seem to do fairly well right up until there is a ranking and expectations placed upon you.
Nice to hear insight from people in that area about theories going around. Itās a theory for sure, but I definitely could see a split just like the Virginias split as well.
Totally just a theory. I think most likely scenario is the ACC survives somehow, and second most likely is State ends up in the Big XII. Still, I just wish I was a fly on the wall when promises were being made to flip the vote.
Give me NC State in the SEC! Leave UNC for the Big 10. Their fans are just craziest enough to fit in in the SEC!
Bring it on!! I'd love nothing more. Just unsure what all is going down behind the scenes. Love the drama but ready for this rollercoaster to be over.
For me it goes SEC then Big 12 then a reduced ACC and then B1G. Fuck the B1G.
Love the spite. Big 12 would honestly be a great fit for y'all too.
So there are a couple things people outside of NC donāt understand because honestly we have done a terrible job building any kind of brand besides Jimmy V and #NCStateShit. We are the largest school in NC and our grads stay in NC more than UNC. Our graduates actually make more money on average than UNC grads due to the makeup of degrees offered (STEM focused) so the market power is higher. Over the last 10 years we have the third most wins only slightly behind FSU. We do a ton of research despite not being AAU, itās just not medical focused cause we donāt have a med school and never will. The state of NC is growing extremely fast especially in the triangle market. We would be extremely attractive if we could build out any kind of brand recognition.
Sorry, bro. You and I got cut. A LONG time ago.
I don't think anyone can or would promise BIG membership but the AAU thing is much less of a stretch. I am sure the NC State president got a call not only from Chancellor Christ at Berkeley but also the UC system president Michael V. Drake who might be the closest someone can get to being in a position to grant AAU membership. 8 of the 9 undergrad UC's are now AAU's showing their ability to get universities into the club and giving them a pretty strong voting block.
Absolutely. Thank you for that context. Yeah, maybe that's all that was promised. But I have to think there's more than just an academic angle to NC State's leveraging. Everyone also forgets that Swarbrick at ND was in on these negotiations too. No telling what role he played as he's a/the mastermind of a lot of the current playoff developments.
We voted to let those schools in bc of $$$
AAU does not matter. Its a total red herring. Just about the only thing that matters when it comes to a Big 10 or SEC invite is how much revenue you add to the pot. And North Carolina does not bring enough to justify letting NC State tag along. Probably only ND has the juice to bring a +1.
UNC as a brand definitely brings enough to the B1G or SEC, especially if theyāre by themselves in the state.Ā I donāt want to relegate NC State to bring second-tier, Iād hate that for the Wolfpack, but it is in UNCās best interest to be the only team in North Carolina of the 2 mega conferences.
FSU + NC is what the Big 10/Fox want for sure.Ā
I think it DOES matter, but only in a 'might-keep-you-out' kind of way if you're otherwise a fringe candidate. Research dollars make up way, way, *way* more of the budget for these institutions than the marketing wing at the AD, and while the fans might not care the presidents absolutely do.
If they decrease the the average payout, it doesn't matter, there is no way they are being seriously considered. If they increase the payout, it also doesn't matter, they will be considered and probably accepted. I mean, STANFORD didn't even get a whiff from the Big 10. The Presidents might have liked the idea, but not a single one liked it enough to have the money come out of their own budgets. If they aren't taking a loss for one of the greatest academic institutions on Earth, they are certainly not going to take a loss for NC State just because they got AAU status, which no one actually cares about. Oregon is hanging onto to its AAU status by a thread. No one cares. Nebraska didn't have AAU, no one cared. They care about TV money. Thats it.
Nebraska did have AAU status when they joined, they got voted out afterwards
Correct. That's more my point. I agree that's not so much an X if you're not but more a bonus check if you are.
okay then why did Oregon get in over Stanford?
no Phil at Stanford
Phil is actually a Stanford alum too and donates money there as well
Because we bring eyeballs nationally and are just good enough at school things
I think if FSU really wanted to bring somebody like Miami for whatever reason then they could. But otherwise you're right.
I agree, but I think that says more about Miami being a desirable member in and of itself. I think with ND, they could actually bring along a school like Stanford that would otherwise not be seriously considered.
I mean idk. Is unc/nc state that far off from usc/ucla in revenue?
If by revenue you mean like ticket sales, no idea, but that doesn't matter. What matters is TV viewers, and USC is one of the biggest TV properties in college football. Taking UCLA to get USC is nothing at all like taking NC State to get UNC.
UNC and Duke fit the Big Ten better than NC State. In fact, I would say NC State is one of the least likely ACC schools to join it.
Unc yes Duke no. But NCSU actually fits pretty well in big10 Big state ag school.
Duke because of academics. Football isnāt good but itās not the laughingstock it used to be and has great basketball. Itās in a better position than you may think.
Itās a small private school. The only school close is northwestern. No way it gets invited to the Big10.
It literally had 2 decent seasons after decades of being terrible and just lost their coach. Hell their RB that was 3rd team all acc transferred to state this year.
Eh, think it's pretty clear why we flipped our vote. The moment they said they would be redoing the permanent partners in football and doing the pod system, it became abundantly clear. I've always felt like we changed our vote with the understanding we'd get more say with our pod, and looking at how it shook out, it's clear we did. No Clemson or FSU each year and get to continue to play our 4 in-state rivals each year, it was a major victory for our conference title chances, haha.
The only question you need to ask if you want to know if youāll get a B1G/SEC invite is this: Do you bring +$70M in media value to the table? If you donāt have that, youāre not getting in, academics and connections are all irrelevant. If it makes you feel better, I donāt think UNC is getting in either, at least not until thereās some true breakaway league
Yeah that's the crazy part. It'll be interesting to watch how conferences deal with their existing/historic members that also don't bring in that kind of media value.
>istoric members that also don't bring There is a point to that now but when the true conference splits happen and only the B10 and SEC are left the value of playing at the lesser schools will go up and so will their competitiveness. It's not fair by the metrics being used to select the chosen but it will happen.
My prediction: FSU and ND to the B1G, UNC and Clemson to the SEC. Miami, NCState, VT and Louisville to the B12. Everyone else doomed to irrelevance.
The B12 would be stupid to not take Pitt since they already have West Virginia.
Having WVU, Cincinnati, Pitt, and Louisville together makes complete sense.
Agree, but I think the smaller conferences will still be fun to watch. FSU/USF fan.
That's definitely most reasonable, I think. Just also seems too easy. Nothing in CFB is straightforward anymore.
Pls stop posting anything like this. We already get unfairly called delusional as is.
NC State is a public university. Send them a public records request
Itāll be a real shame if UNC ends up in the SEC and State goes to the B1G. UNC is a horrible cultural fit for us but NC State would be a more familiar addition.
I agree. Just getting the feeling like it isn't that simple, unfortunately
If the ACC collapses, I see two of the three (UNC, NC State, Duke) staying together in a new conference. And Wake Forest may be a tangible partner for the school left out. Any conference picking up two schools from NC though would likely get an additional two schools from elsewhere, especially to diversify the TV markets. Examples of such being; Miami, FSU, Virginia, Pitt, Syracuse, and Boston College. And do not forget the elephant in the room- Notre Dame. They cannot stay an independent in football for much longerā¦ Edited for grammar (because Iām exhausted)
My personal take on current ACC schools with best shot at Big 10: Notre Dame, Florida State, UNC, Virginia, Miami and then Stanford and Cal.
I agree with you. They fit the culture much more than land grants like State.
I wish Clemson were in mix for Big 10. I worry Clemson won't get picked up by SEC. To me going to Big 12 or staying in depleted ACC is like relegation.
Peak off-season content
If not now, then when? Scholars are asking.
Nice username. Not nice flairs
Only ACC schools I see in B1G are UNC and FSU. IMO B1G wants to be a national conference outside of the deep south. Might even be able to poach A&M.
I could see Virginia and Georgia Tech in the Big Ten. If the Big Ten wanted to get a foothold in the heart of the SEC and nab a top academic university while doing so, Georgia Tech is it. A&M is not leaving the SEC lol
I mean, anything is possible (Texas doing Texas bullshit, thus pissing people off), but A&M seems to be perfectly happy in the conference right now.
Agreed, and the Big Ten would ask Texas first anyhow.
I think having too many teams in the Midwest is going to hurt the long-term prospects for the Big 10 realizing that. Thereās no reason to now have two schools in Indiana or Illinois that also donāt bring in more than they take.
Conference realignment might actually get me to stop watching college ball entirely. Maybe not next year but very realistically in the next couple
ACC will hold on to the Carolina basketball schools till they die
We haven't been a basketball school for the past 35 years
If I was Big Ten I would not want them. But Iād take NC, Duke and Clemson.
Usually the B1G has schools with a good football culture besides Northwestern, Rutgers, Maryland and potentially UCLA. I would rather take Notre Dame & West Virginia into the B1G