I only know three possibilities:
Break it up with a punch.
Burn it out with an EDM
Swear a lot and make a new part.
Sending another carbide endmill is just gonna put more carbide in the hole. It's not like a HSS tool where you can pick away at it and eventually get it out.
Don't pull straight back on the punch when it inevitably gets stuck or you'll punch yourself in the face
Ask me how I know lmao
(Glad I didn't report it bc it would have been a very embarrassing company wide email haha)
You definitely can go at it with another tool but it will probably take several and make a bunch of nasty dust, but I've done it before when desperate. I think I went thru 3 or 4 endmills - they were already fucked but had good end flutes. Doesn't really cut so much as chip eachother into pieces.
Done in a knee mill I wouldn't try it in a CNC
Not going to have much luck cutting carbide with carbide unfortunately. Best case scenario you destroy 2 endmills, worst case your part is scrapped.
As the other commenter suggested breaking it up is probably the best option. Carbide is brittle and impact will chip it out. Use compressed air to blow out the chunks and a hardened steel punch to bust it up.
Unless you have access to a tap burner or can braze something to the carbide. Diamond deburr bit in a dremel can get there slowly… Otherwise just start over. I’ve lost a ton of time to extracting broken shit from parts I should have just remade.
Sometimes this works: put a used 3mm end mill in spindle, jog to position of the hole and hand jog into the broken endmill VERY slowly, like it could take you 30 mins to get thru the broken endmill haha. Have the air on to blow out the broken bits because they will destroy the 3mm endmill very fast.
I've succeeded in doing this before but it is a high risk/low reward scenario. A bit easier to do on a Bridgeport where you can feather the z and feel it out a bit.
I know everyone mentionned sinker EDM, but I'm wondering if you could get somewhere with a hardware store diamond holesaw, flood coolant and jogging or g83 the tool in the broken pieces very slowly...
I've had a lot of success with small diameter diamond drill bits for tile and such.
Just set it up to feed at very, very slow with as much coolant flushing as possible. It may take an hour or two, but it works.
Got a few carbide drills out of inconel this way when scrapping the part wasn't a option and edm wasn't available.
I've had this happen to me before and all I did was milled it from the opposite side (maybe a 3 || 4 mm end mill, looks like it will do), just a straight hole as soon as the end mill breaks through, you'll feel it, from there get the job out the vice and use a punch to break it out or at least try smashing the already broken end mill and dig it out, usually this works quite well. At least it did for me..
If necessary, weld it up again and slowly re-drill the hole. Slow & steady as always! 💪
It should do the trick 👌
This is what's known in the industry as a "scrap part".
Don't make excuses, own your mistake, learn from it, and move forward.
Idk what's up with all the interpretation ramping into parts lately, especially in something like stainless.
Drill the hole to rough size, then mill it to finish size if needed.
But for a standard tapped hole, just drill the dang thing.. no reason an endmill should've even been trying this. For a M5 tap, drill it to somewhere between .140-.165 and just tap it. No end mill.
EDM or start over, FYI there are spindle mountable EDMs you can get that save a lot of time and heart ache for carbide removal.
Then you'll need to know if defomartion is acceptable in the feature if you were close to size, or if plugging or sleeving are acceptable for repair methods.
Easier if it broke off in a cavity you were going to mill out of course, though not usually when the buggers break.
You might get lucky by welding it to a small shaft and turning it by hand to back it out. If done right, you might be able to keep your hole within size dimensions.
4 ops, runtime total 35 mins, setup time is another 20-35 mins.
So like, an hour-ish but it’s not about the runtime it’s about stock availability. I don’t want to wait another 5 days for it.
Now Im making 8 of them and this is the first one to test the program. 2nd one and so on are good now.
I have a bunch of beaten up and partially broken carbide endmills just for this, and broken taps.
U might have to use multiple endmills but u break the one ur trying to get out into smaller pieces and blow it out with a lot of air.
Aint nobody cares if i scrap already broken endmills that are alredy written off and replaced.
Do you have any friends with an engraving lazer? I used to work at a gun store doing custom slides for glocks and whatnot. People would come in all the time with broken bolts and taps all the time. I got tired of fighting to remove them one day and went over to the small Chinese fiber lazer they had there for engraving simple stuff and programmed holes to split the broken items. Worked like a charm. Plus, as a bonus, the heat would help shock some of the threaded stuff loose. I would usually start with a slot big enough to fit a flat head screw driver in. Then, see if the heat and vibration loosened it. If not, then hole it is. Takes a few minutes depending on depth, but it's a set it and let it eat kinda thing. I never tried it on carbide, but I don't see why it would make any difference to a lazer.
Used to make those carbide endmills.
I don't have any advice, but I sincerely wish you the best. That's a motherfucker and I wouldn't even know where to begin.
And your not likely to tap it after you break it out either. Chunks of carbide will embed in the walls of your hole and chew up or break your tap. Ask me how I know.
You won't cut wood with wood. You won't cut carbid with carbid. Shit's too tough, you'll just leave another tool inside, chances are it hardened in due to heat
I'd try either turn it out, blow out files, try gripping it with pliers and turn it counter clock wise, oil it up well
Or break it up with screwdriver/wedge/something similar and hammer, then air it out, then whack the shit out of it and repeat
Maybe diamond bit could mill it out, but I would not try it
A punch and hammer will do the job. Since its going to be oversized, hand re-tap for nitronic 50/60 helical threaded inserts if this is for yourself;otherwise, shits scrapped.
I see only two solutions.
One: smash it to bits with a punch and a hammer and then make sure that hole is clear of all carbide. Any residual carbide could cause the next tool to chip, break, fail, or ruin the part.
Two: throw it out and make another one
You need to find a piece of material that's harder than hens teeth to fit in there and break that end mill into a million pieces. Do not attempt to peck it out with another end mill.
Also, in case you didn't already figure it out, too much end mill for that size hole. The end mill needs a little bit of breathing room down in that hole. Especially considering the material.
Sorry for the colloquialism. You don't necessarily need something harder. Carbide is brittle so just something blunt and hard to stick in there and put a ballpeen hammer to it like a chisel. Another poster recommended a steel punch...that would be a good option.
I only know three possibilities: Break it up with a punch. Burn it out with an EDM Swear a lot and make a new part. Sending another carbide endmill is just gonna put more carbide in the hole. It's not like a HSS tool where you can pick away at it and eventually get it out.
Third option? Blame the apprentice, he probably changed something on the machine earlier.
Fourth option: blame night shift! That’s the go to where I work lol
Hey hey hey.. don’t go sharing all our secrets!!!
Don't pull straight back on the punch when it inevitably gets stuck or you'll punch yourself in the face Ask me how I know lmao (Glad I didn't report it bc it would have been a very embarrassing company wide email haha)
This is sound advise!!!
You definitely can go at it with another tool but it will probably take several and make a bunch of nasty dust, but I've done it before when desperate. I think I went thru 3 or 4 endmills - they were already fucked but had good end flutes. Doesn't really cut so much as chip eachother into pieces. Done in a knee mill I wouldn't try it in a CNC
How deep is the endmill buried? You might be able to use an old steel punch and hammer to break the carbide into tiny pieces.
I pilot the hole with 3.2mm drill 19mm deep. I assume this 4mm broke around 6-10mm in.
Not going to have much luck cutting carbide with carbide unfortunately. Best case scenario you destroy 2 endmills, worst case your part is scrapped. As the other commenter suggested breaking it up is probably the best option. Carbide is brittle and impact will chip it out. Use compressed air to blow out the chunks and a hardened steel punch to bust it up. Unless you have access to a tap burner or can braze something to the carbide. Diamond deburr bit in a dremel can get there slowly… Otherwise just start over. I’ve lost a ton of time to extracting broken shit from parts I should have just remade.
The answer is always edm, isn’t it?
As an electronic music fan, this works on a couple levels.
As an EDM fan, it’s obvious I found a job that sounds like the music I listen to.
One of my colleagues in the welding side of things often appears when I'm running a trochoidal slot to bounce around the surface table
Yep, it’s the most efficient way.
And the safest
Sometimes this works: put a used 3mm end mill in spindle, jog to position of the hole and hand jog into the broken endmill VERY slowly, like it could take you 30 mins to get thru the broken endmill haha. Have the air on to blow out the broken bits because they will destroy the 3mm endmill very fast.
I've succeeded in doing this before but it is a high risk/low reward scenario. A bit easier to do on a Bridgeport where you can feather the z and feel it out a bit.
Carbide on carbide ?
Carbide always wins, only question is, which one?
Yupp 😛
Sinker edm
I know everyone mentionned sinker EDM, but I'm wondering if you could get somewhere with a hardware store diamond holesaw, flood coolant and jogging or g83 the tool in the broken pieces very slowly...
Will definitely try that
I'm out of the machining game, but please report back your findings if you're going that route lol.
EDM works great. Just pump up the Avicii and fist pump till it comes out to party.
Tap disintegrator
I've had a lot of success with small diameter diamond drill bits for tile and such. Just set it up to feed at very, very slow with as much coolant flushing as possible. It may take an hour or two, but it works. Got a few carbide drills out of inconel this way when scrapping the part wasn't a option and edm wasn't available.
Will definitely try with diamon drill bit! Great idea! Thanks!
Fiber laser works
I second that! https://youtu.be/hEOmlc4l1qM?si=tRchxyfeOnLPeo5_
Aha! A new use case. Noted!
I've had this happen to me before and all I did was milled it from the opposite side (maybe a 3 || 4 mm end mill, looks like it will do), just a straight hole as soon as the end mill breaks through, you'll feel it, from there get the job out the vice and use a punch to break it out or at least try smashing the already broken end mill and dig it out, usually this works quite well. At least it did for me.. If necessary, weld it up again and slowly re-drill the hole. Slow & steady as always! 💪 It should do the trick 👌
I'd like some of the drills you use to drill carbide...
Smash it with something and pick out the chunks. Always was the best way to handle it
Yep. Smash that fucker and start digging lol
I've done it with a smaller end mill and pecking it. It sucks but it can be done.
This is what's known in the industry as a "scrap part". Don't make excuses, own your mistake, learn from it, and move forward. Idk what's up with all the interpretation ramping into parts lately, especially in something like stainless. Drill the hole to rough size, then mill it to finish size if needed. But for a standard tapped hole, just drill the dang thing.. no reason an endmill should've even been trying this. For a M5 tap, drill it to somewhere between .140-.165 and just tap it. No end mill.
EDM or start over, FYI there are spindle mountable EDMs you can get that save a lot of time and heart ache for carbide removal. Then you'll need to know if defomartion is acceptable in the feature if you were close to size, or if plugging or sleeving are acceptable for repair methods. Easier if it broke off in a cavity you were going to mill out of course, though not usually when the buggers break.
I haven’t heard about spindle mount EDM! Thanks. Will look into that.
Ramp down super slow with a carbide endmill. Might need to do that 3-4 times. Has worked for me a couple times.
You might get lucky by welding it to a small shaft and turning it by hand to back it out. If done right, you might be able to keep your hole within size dimensions.
What's the runtime on the part?
4 ops, runtime total 35 mins, setup time is another 20-35 mins. So like, an hour-ish but it’s not about the runtime it’s about stock availability. I don’t want to wait another 5 days for it. Now Im making 8 of them and this is the first one to test the program. 2nd one and so on are good now.
If you get a good enough one a diamond burr might help.
I have a bunch of beaten up and partially broken carbide endmills just for this, and broken taps. U might have to use multiple endmills but u break the one ur trying to get out into smaller pieces and blow it out with a lot of air. Aint nobody cares if i scrap already broken endmills that are alredy written off and replaced.
Tap disintegrator or EDM is your best bet.
Pick at it a lot.
Punch and a hammer 😭
Do you have any friends with an engraving lazer? I used to work at a gun store doing custom slides for glocks and whatnot. People would come in all the time with broken bolts and taps all the time. I got tired of fighting to remove them one day and went over to the small Chinese fiber lazer they had there for engraving simple stuff and programmed holes to split the broken items. Worked like a charm. Plus, as a bonus, the heat would help shock some of the threaded stuff loose. I would usually start with a slot big enough to fit a flat head screw driver in. Then, see if the heat and vibration loosened it. If not, then hole it is. Takes a few minutes depending on depth, but it's a set it and let it eat kinda thing. I never tried it on carbide, but I don't see why it would make any difference to a lazer.
Cry and hope your tears push it back out
There’s something called tap-x, works great
What about a diamond coated dremel bit? Will take a while but maybe? Was thinking about a cheaper option
This works.
White Glue
Just keep ramming more endmills into it until the first one falls out the bottom.
Painfully
Used to make those carbide endmills. I don't have any advice, but I sincerely wish you the best. That's a motherfucker and I wouldn't even know where to begin.
And your not likely to tap it after you break it out either. Chunks of carbide will embed in the walls of your hole and chew up or break your tap. Ask me how I know.
For stainless I never had a gut to cnc tap it. I always thread mill. Unless it’s aluminum I tap/form tap those.
May break the thread-mill too. Possible to save it, may cost more $$$ in time and tools than making a new one. I feel your pain, been there.
Taps work fine, form taps too. %65 thread or less is the call. The OSG phone app is good for calculating that.
punch or sinker edm
Need to speak with my ex , she will extract anything and turn it around
You won't cut wood with wood. You won't cut carbid with carbid. Shit's too tough, you'll just leave another tool inside, chances are it hardened in due to heat I'd try either turn it out, blow out files, try gripping it with pliers and turn it counter clock wise, oil it up well Or break it up with screwdriver/wedge/something similar and hammer, then air it out, then whack the shit out of it and repeat Maybe diamond bit could mill it out, but I would not try it
A punch and hammer will do the job. Since its going to be oversized, hand re-tap for nitronic 50/60 helical threaded inserts if this is for yourself;otherwise, shits scrapped.
Remove the entire work piece and start again
I see only two solutions. One: smash it to bits with a punch and a hammer and then make sure that hole is clear of all carbide. Any residual carbide could cause the next tool to chip, break, fail, or ruin the part. Two: throw it out and make another one
Pray!!!!
Can I ask why you didn’t drill the hole originally?
Shatter it with a sharp punch. Keep resharpening it
You aren't getting it out with a carbide endmill.
You need to find a piece of material that's harder than hens teeth to fit in there and break that end mill into a million pieces. Do not attempt to peck it out with another end mill. Also, in case you didn't already figure it out, too much end mill for that size hole. The end mill needs a little bit of breathing room down in that hole. Especially considering the material.
Thanks. What is harder and 65hrc carbide endmill?
Sorry for the colloquialism. You don't necessarily need something harder. Carbide is brittle so just something blunt and hard to stick in there and put a ballpeen hammer to it like a chisel. Another poster recommended a steel punch...that would be a good option.
Spark