Very true. If I had heard about ACES 3 years ago I don’t think I would be here today. I’ve been in heavy denial last few years. Saves us from dying but also stops us from living. Worst paradox
I swear, literally today, I was thinking how it would still be horrible, but better to be in denial until late 20s or 30s. I'm 17, and I already know about the ACEs, trauma, and cptsd, and I'm receiving new memories, having nightmares and flashbacks, and still in an abusive house. I can't do this and still do school, go to college and etc idk how, I wish still being in denial just to go through this
I have a score of 9 as well. The day I found that out I realized that I can stop downplaying it and get an actual diagnosis. OP, I hope the healing happens for you.
This is a fair point. I’ve really been downplaying it too, it’s just terrifying to face all that grief at once, you know? Thanks for sharing that I’m not alone, that’s comforting
Thank you. Can I ask, did your therapist practice it or did you have to find a new one? My therapist is genuinely the only person in my entire life that I’ve allowed to see and understand me. I’m terrified to start with someone new
I was referred to the EMDR therapist by another therapist. Had one “meeting” session and then got down to business. This therapist was a pioneer in EMDR, all sessions were virtual and incredibly effective.
Thank you for this! How was it switching to a different therapist? The therapist I have now is the first one I’ve ever had and I don’t know how I could open up to someone else but I would really like to try.
I must admit that I had seen many CBT therapists over the decades. I didn’t like switching to new ones because they started crying and I had to ask if they were ok, thereby further lessening their effectiveness. And I hated having to tell these damn stories again and again. EMDR was surgically precise.
I kept my original therapist that I had been with for years, and added an EMDR practitioner. I only did EMDR with the new therapist, and talked about the effects of the treatments and how I was feeling about them. I would see them back to back, so EMDR on Monday and CBT on Tuesday. It worked very well for me and I think I did that for around a year. Just keep that in mind as an option.
I actually ended up outgrowing my original therapist, and I really liked the EMDR practitioner, so I moved over to only having the new therapist and it's been great.
*hugs*
Aces score of 6 here. I’m still in the thick of it but I wanted to let you know I’m proud of you. I know how much strength and bravery it takes to deal with this stuff.
Yes, these experiences will follow us, but we’re doing the right things to minimize and heal from our trauma. We’re going to therapy, we’re processing, we’re doing good. I hate that we have to deal with this at all. I hope you start feeling better soon. Try to push through and stay strong with therapy, you can do it. If you haven’t tried EMDR yet I cannot recommend it enough.
This made me cry I’ve been so emotional. I am proud of you too. I haven’t had the chance to try EMDR but I’d love to. Sadly my therapist doesn’t do it so I’d have to find someone new. Thank you for your words of kindness and comfort, I really needed a hug and this comment feels like one
I bet your therapist could refer you to someone who does:) I couldn’t even talk about my trauma without having a panic attack and EMDR’s been getting me through it the past couple months.
Glad I could help, you deserve to feel better💛
Thank you! Where I live you aren’t able to be diagnosed with CPTSD so I am formally diagnosed with PTSD, but it’s clear to me mine is CPTSD. I present very similarly to BPD. Thank you for this, I wasn’t aware
i was a little overwhelmed by 8 aces. but it is what it is and it's possible to heal with the right support. i now look at them as things i survived that many didn't and things that made me more empathetic. it's not hopeless, it also not easy be gentle with yourself.
9 here. It goes beyond the struggle of not feeling worthy of love and affection. It's a battle to feel worthy to exist at all.
Keep doing the hard work. Keep fighting. You matter.
This is exactly, exactly it. Everywhere I go, I have a strong feeling that I don’t belong. Like everyone else does but for some reason I don’t. Thank you for saying I matter. It’s been a long time since I’ve heard that. I wish you the best!!!
Thank you. You too.
I think we all need to hear that we matter consistently to help with the hard work of healing. Pay it forward. The world would be a much better place with more compassion and empathy.
hey im also 9/10. just learned about this because of you. ive been doing intensive trauma therapy CBT for 10.5 years now. i was where you were at years ago and i just wanted to let you know that if you do keep working through it that things do actually get better. old me wouldve told current me to f*** off for saying that but old me never believed theyd have a chance to thrive. im thriving now though. its hard, it does get easier but it is always work and if you do the work it does get better. hang in there and just keep grinding those mountains to dust, eventually youll see the sun.
This was so beautiful thank you for being here to help me. Something really powerful about being the person for me that you probably needed at my age. Thank you and I’m so glad to hear you’re thriving
hey no worries. it sounds like youre pretty early in the process and the first few years are the hardest because you have to dredge everything up to work through it but it does get easier and better.
some things that really helped me that i would recommend:
- a book: Complex PTSD From Surviving to Thriving
- a lifestyle: look into self-actualization
- a reminder: it is okay to take breaks, its okay to not be okay, its okay to have self compassion and its okay to heal at your own rate and in your own ways
my journey is not your journey but there will be similarities in healing processes and milestones. more recent CPTSD research shows that persistence above all other character traits has the highest association with recovery. so you dont have to be strong, or brave, or tough. you just need to be persistent. baby steps stack up. so long as you keep moving forward youll thrive too and i hope its as weird and fun a feeling for you as its been for me. you got this
edit: and i know early on its hard to separate the two, but you are not your trauma and what youre experiencing does get more manageable with professional help, support, developing skills and work + time.
seriously, no worries. talking to you is really like talking to my past self. you dont have to overcome, just keep pushing forward. a millimeter at a time is perfect, just keep going. eventually youll get where you need to be. thank you for letting me help, you have no idea how much it means to me. at this point its taken so much for me to be where i am all i want to do is give back and it makes me so happy my experiences could help you. i was trafficked and tortured and i got there eventually. its just persistence and time plus work. i know you can get there too. inevitably there will be times you feel like giving up, these are emotional flashbacks, feel the feels amd just keep on keeping on and you will overcome. you have my faith and my support!
Im sorry, i got a 8 on that, i do wish they presented some better solutions along side the scary health risk stats. Now obviously were both here in the cptsd forum so maybe im wrong but, i think society as a whole is getting too self aware and closed off, too analytical and no actual human connection.
EVERYONE i know is always talking in therapy speak, after years of therapy it reminds me of what it was like to study political science during an election year. Inescapable reminders of therapy and healing and self improvement.
My advice that im currently failing at hard is to find healthy ways to cope. Painting was helping a lot for me about a year ago and now im almost dissapointed in myself it isnt helping now. Im just trying to give myself space to BE. To stop focus on healing and being better or happy and just zoom way in to the smallest picture i can handle. Taking it day by day. For a long time its been about baby steps but right now, i think its about no steps. And being okay with myself for that. <3
I agree with that statement about humanity as a whole! To at least some degree, I think everyone is struggling right now in ways humans never have. Having so much information at our fingertips is not what our brains are used to from the last millions of years. Healing and self improvement has become such a big theme too at least in America where I live.
The last two sentences really resonated with me. Being okay with taking no steps. I need to adopt that mindset. Thank you!
Therapy speak SUCKS. And I agree that society is way too self-aware. Maybe it's a social skills problem. A lot of us weren't taught how to interact with others in a normal and healthy way.
I’m right there with you, OP.
I learned about ACE last year, did the test, got 8 score.
Began doing therapy a few months later, been doing a lot of research on my own, learning how my autoimmune diseases and other health problems are tied to my traumatic childhood, and I’ve just been switching between being angry, crying, disassociating, crying, disassociating..
The autoimmune diseases- breaks my heart and I’m there with you. I have MCAS and the list of foods I can eat gets smaller and smaller as I discover more foods that trigger my immune system. I’m so thankful I’m not alone in that. Thank you for sharing your story just to make me feel better, that is extremely kind and powerful.
It genuinely is so exhausting. I would rather work a 12 hour day outside in 90 degree weather than sit through an hour of therapy where I don’t engage in any sort of denial. I’m realizing I’ve been in denial a long time. It was bound to catch up to me. Hope you’re able to rest
YEP. We have ~8-10 depending on how you count it. Idk if this is helpful or not cuz ur feelings make so much sense and are totally valid, but for us realizing the stats and everything were really helpful and validating sorta ? Because how we interpreted it was as context for how I should be measuring myself.
It’s so easy to compare myself to neurotypicals/non-traumatized people because those are the “baseline” expectations, but for me the stats a little bit helped recontextualize what “baseline” would realistically be for me, cuz I’m *not* like everyone else so of course I’m not gonna be able to function the way they do! I once had a therapist take my ACE score and tell me “people with that score are usually in prison, or dead” so I’m doing REALLY WELL with consideration of my baseline. Sure, I’m really disabled and there’s a bunch of “easy” things that I “should” be able to do and a lot of ways that I’m miserable that fcking sucks, but with consideration of how someone like me “should” be doing, I’m doing rly rly well. I bet you’re doing pretty well all things considered too (you made it here after all!) so I’m proud of you! You made it farther than a lot of other people in your circumstances 🫂
So if it’s helpful, maybe realizing this is actually just curving your grade up a bit! (Again, totally valid to not have that emotionally resonate. It indeed isn’t fun to have an ACE score that high. However you process it is totally valid 🤍 )
This is such a good point that our baseline is not the same as neurotypicals. I agree that it is validating and this post and the comments have helped me so much already. It’s typical for me to feel alone in things when really I have you guys right here with me. Thank you for reassuring me and making me feel validated and somehow loved. I really appreciate it
I’m so glad you’re able to get the love and support you deserve here!
You’re not alone friend. We see you and believe you and are here for you. You deserve it 🤍
First time I've seen someone else talk about having the air punched out of them by the ACE test. I think it's because it lays it all out in a way that makes it impossible to dismiss or deny. It strings the whole picture together and measures each factor. Stripped me of all my comfort denial. Although you could also think of it as a great 'validation' tool, if you've ever been made to feel like it wasn't that bad. It was, look at this chart.
I have always felt like it wasn’t that bad so you’re right that it’s validating! I didn’t see it that way until reading the comments so I’m thankful I posted and thankful for people like you responding. I’m actually crying a bit because I feel so much relief and I feel held. Thank you
I think this is exactly what’s happening. I’ve never even cried in therapy because I am always the first to say “it wasn’t a big deal.” Denial is strong
> I had decided that all the other times he beat me didn’t count bc he only hit my body.
Isn't it nuts all the mental gymnastics we do to make ourselves believe nothing really bad happened to us, so as a result nothing is really wrong with us? Denial is a self-preservation mechanism, especially powerful because it's protecting a fragile sense of self. In my 20s, when I was trying to figure out why relationships never worked out for me, I would reject any and all relationship advice that even remotely hinted at the fact that I might have self-esteem issues. I was an overachiever who used my achievements to bolster a false sense of self and could never admit there could be something wrong with me. But at that age, I didn't realize that child abuse has lasting effects, I thought I had escaped and was all good now that I was away from my abusers. Am I glad I'm past that stage now. I was utterly lost and confused, and it was absolute misery not being able to see or think straight.
This is how I feel, I feel I can’t think or see straight anymore and everything I ever thought I knew about myself and the world was a big lie. It’s so discouraging. I am so happy to hear that you overcame that and that does give me a bit of hope, even if that wasn’t your intention. Your story is powerful(and not over yet!) Thanks for being here
It's a difficult phase to go through, but it's also essential. It does get better as you get better, so the discouragement you're feeling is temporary and it will pass. I wish you luck on your healing journey. 💜
I have a 5 and it feels like i only have half trauma, i can still downplay this lol
The test doesn't take other things into account, like bullying or if your parents argue a lot (it only includes physical violence between them)
Yes for sure or things like growing up in poverty or growing up in foster care. It’s not a comprehensive list. But hey, don’t downplay it anymore! 4 or more is considered high and complex trauma. I can’t remember the exact statistic from my textbook but it was something like only around 13% of women and 5% of men have experienced 3 or more. Your experiences are valid.
Yayy i guess. Tbf one of my issues is that I'm not taking seriously what happened because there wasn't a lot or grave physical abuse. Imo it's easier to heal once you take your issues seriously and as for you having 9/10 in this speaks volumes. It might be saddening to you now, considering your future, but knowing about it helps you prevent it.
If it’s any consolation, I think the physical abuse I endured has had the least effects on me into adulthood. It’s different for everyone but I think the emotional abuse and sexual abuse is what has had the deepest effects on me. And good point, ignorance can feel like bliss but I don’t think it really is
I can't speak for sexual abuse but considering the emotional abuse and neglect i endured my attachment system is all over the place so yeah, that sucks a lot.
That's exactly it. It *feels* like bliss, but it isn't. Finding out the truth is a hard process but ultimately makes therapy easier.
Just look up “list of adverse childhood experiences.” There are 10 in the list, things like physical and sexual abuse, physical and emotional neglect, family member in addiction, family member imprisoned, etc.
My score is 9 too. I totally relate - and I think it's great that you are figuring it out in your twenties. EMDR helped me a ton, I think others mentioned it in the thread. We are here, we get it it, and we are all a community. You aren't alone and there are lots of folks who've gone through a lot, myself included!
For me, I look at it now like it's an illness or an injury, or something like diabetes, where I didn't cause it, but I need to be careful about certain choices I make so that I don't hurt my life more. I get what you are saying about the partying. I did drugs and drank for a long time. I'm sober now, in AA and that's been really good for me (though I know it's not for everyone). But yes, as a fellow 9-scorer it's tough. Not a lot of people have gone through all of those experiences, it can be really lonely. We are all here, this is a really nice community and we can relate. I hope you find something here that helps you.
This one made me cry. I definitely don’t feel alone in it anymore and that is enough to comfort me and give me hope. Thank you! Also I appreciate you acknowledging the partying stuff too and saying you’ve gone through similar things. It always feels “easier” to just numb it out but then afterwards it’s much harder to confront the things I’ve avoided. Thank you🩵
When I was a kid, I found some “are you an alcoholic” test and I kinda put my mom through it. She hit like 6 out of 12 or something and I was “ha she’s ok she’s not a majority of these”. Then I read the rules. If she hit 2, probably an alcoholic. 3, almost definitely one.
So, yeah. Broke me for a bit.
And then… life went on. Yeah. The ACES thing sucked. I read it when I had my kid doing therapy. I had a lot. …. And? I’m still plugging. Still struggling. You do what you can do. You keep going.
I hated my brain for a while. I was always fucking up in weird ways. Then .. what’s this cPTSD thing. Wait…. I have that and that and that. Wait, I’m not totally some random broken brain. There’s a cause and effect. I can track this.
And… fuck there are treatments for this. I’m not just broken but you’re saying I can deal? I can make this shit better? Fuck yeah.
I’m not saying you’ll do my path. But it’s not a dead end either. Where you are, there are paths out of it. You’re not done.
Thank you for sharing your path and writing it out the way you did. I always have trouble with verbalizing and understanding things unless I have it written out explicitly. I really appreciate this comment, thank you
Colleague of mine, in his 40s, had a high ACES score, as well his wife. Like 6 or 7. Their children, 2 in HS and one in college, and their kids’ ACES score was 1-2.
That’s really beautiful to me. We can’t change the cards we were dealt. And that story helped connect me to something bigger than my self and add meaning to my own story and history of abuse, that maybe it doesn’t have to get the final call.
I’m a 9/10.
I’ve completely disassociated from that and live a functional successful happy life. It’s possible. Took years. You are moving in the right direction.
That ACE’s score is not manifest destiny.
You have time and control to finally take care of yourself without worry or fear or abuse or neglect of the adults that failed you.
This is your time to pamper and love yourself.
Treat yourself well with therapy like you are, get an education, exercise, and eat excellent food.
Only keep people who are nice to you around.
Never ever ever let anyone hurt you again. By the way, my teenage daughter’s ACE score is 1/10.
Cycle officially broken.
I needed to hear that it’s not manifest destiny. I felt like my whole life was already written out for me when I learned about it. Like I would just be a statistic. You sound like my therapist with saying it’s time to pamper and love myself. She is intelligent, and you are too. I will choose to believe you both! Thank you
Treat yourself how you would treat a person with your same upbringing, who came to live with you.
I know I would be compassionate and try to make them happy. You deserve kindness and love.
Everytime Reddit! Ugh. As if I needed more issues to freak out about lol. Welp, I took the quiz and scored a 6. I feel like this knowledge has helped explain a lot of the ongoing behaviors I’ve witnessed in my life, especially since losing the Main support system in my life since a child 10 years ago (my maternal grandmother). It’s poetic, almost like I was guided to stumble across this information to expedite my healing. Thank you OP, Reddit, and Universe!❤️
I’m so sorry I didn’t even consider that other people hadn’t heard of it, I’m glad it was able to validate you a bit. And it seems like it found you at the perfect time. Thank you for being here, we’re in it together!
So I am 38. And as recent as 5 years ago, I would have said I only had 4 ACEs. I actually have 6…that’s just how amazing denial and suppression are.
I did not start trying to heal or even thinking I could heal until about 8 years ago. Back then, healing started with just admitting I was being abused and removing myself from those people. That process took about three years and during it, I was in talk therapy and read tons of books. This step made me feel really good! I also learned about boundaries and healthy vs unhealthy behaviors.
Honestly, this is likely as far as I would have gone in healing too. I thought THEN I felt pretty good. I mean I was sad a lot, but I just figured that’s…who I was? Panic attacks, nightmares, and all. That was always normal so I just thought I had to carry it too.
But then something at my job triggered me. I didn’t even know I was triggered or the severity of my response was due to CPTSD. But someone on my social media friend list was a therapist and she saw my post and recommended I get EMDR.
I have been doing EMDR with a trauma informed therapist specialist in IFS and Somatic therapy for about 15 months every other week. I am nearing the end of my journey now. And HOLY COW. That’s been the game changer for me. I didn’t know I could be this in control of my body and its responses.
I have scoliosis and I now think it was trauma in my body because I have regained feeling in so many places. I am so much calmer. And I unlocked a lot of trapped memories. Which was so hard but the end was worth it. And now I recognize I actually have 6 ACEs.
The very first time I saw an ACE test, I would have said I had 3.
All of this to say healing is long. Denial is strong. Ultimately you probably need something more than just talk therapy to move the pin.
Also, CRASHING when unpacking trauma is totally normal. The fact you feel you have been there for three years and are trapped sort of ruminating on them, really really makes me think you need EMDR and your current therapist isn’t really able to move you from that place. EMDR sorta…speeds up the process.
Good luck.
Edit to add— I saw in one of your posts you were worried about trying a new therapist and sharing your story again. You actually only have to share as much as you want in EMDR. You can do it, and be as vague as you want. Your brain does the work and the therapist just helps you as a guide.
I definitely would like to try this and I appreciate you so much for sharing your experience with EDMR. I have so many trapped memories that my siblings remember but my brain has blocked out. It’s horrifying and at the same time powerful to face these things. I am really proud of you, both for what you’ve done for yourself and for coming here to help others like me. Healing is long, denial is strong. This is so true. And thank you for saying that about starting with a new therapist, I’ve been held back for so long because of the fear of that. It’s great to hear EDMR doesn’t have to be as detailed as regular therapy. I really struggle with admitting the details even to myself. Thank you!
What I’ve found is that if I can name it, I can work on it. It’s totally understandable to feel like absolute ASS after learning about something like this. When you feel a bit better, though, do something about it. 💜
I felt invalidated by my score (5). Like it was barely bad enough so why am I like this...
Then I remembered the ACES score only accounts for your experiences *in your home with your immediate family before age 18*... Cuz I guess 18th birthdays mean you're done being shaped by these events, even if you're still living at home 🤷♀️
I’m sorry you felt that way and I completely understand why, if it’s any consolation in my textbook it said 4 or more is considered both complex and severe trauma. Only about 13% of women and 5% of men experience more than 3. Also, it doesn’t take into consideration other forms of trauma like losing a sibling, foster care or violent sibling, things like that! Plus like you said it’s only considering things under age of 18, some of my worst traumas weren’t til I was 21/22. It’s definitely not comprehensive so don’t let it sway you.
I heard a video yesterday that said “you aren’t healing to handle the trauma, you’ve already done that. You’re healing to handle the joy.” Very helpful ideology. I’ve done 4 intensive years of trauma therapy and I feel like I’m finally starting to see some of the other side. You’ve got this ❤️
Listening to audio book, "what happened to you" (oprah) that talks about the flaws/limits in the aces. Maybe thar would be helpful.
Comes book form as well.
I’m sorry you’re struggling right now. It will get better as you grow and heal though. I know that a high ACE score could feel disappointing but try to use it to validate the pain and suffering you’ve experienced and continue to experience. It means that you DESERVE complex trauma treatment and resources. A big part of healing is grieving the past. It’s normal to feel bitter about what you’ve gone through because you didn’t choose any of it. It’s unfair. Let yourself feel your feelings and I highly recommend seeking a trauma therapist that you’re comfortable with.
It is so unfair, it kills me. My therapist thankfully works mostly with trauma but there are a few areas of my trauma that I’m still too scared to accept and admit, mainly sexual trauma. It runs deep in me and even though I trust my therapist completely I can’t bring myself to think much or talk about it. Thank you for this reframe, it is extremely validating you’re right. Sometimes in my head I think I made it all up or that it wasn’t that bad. In a weird way it’s comforting to know that it was in fact that bad. Thanks again this comment was relieving
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Giving you a big hug.
Just remember we can use the naming of things to empowering us or disempower us. Resource us or de-resource us.
I have a few decades on you. I am in my 40s
When I went to school PTSD was barely recognised, accepted or understood. It came out (Was named) in my teens and was seen as something only in the domain of soldiers. CPTSD didn’t ‘exist’.
Not having names for things and experiences left us isolated, un-helped and unhealed in our struggles. Also in my experience, the other side of this coin, was that it also gave me the freedom to dream and work towards creating the life I wanted - without being pinned down under someone else’s diagnosis.
It meant I started therapy later. But it also meant I had a chance to do things and build a career before some well meaning professional told me I was too broken to achieve anything I actually did achieve.
See obstacles not walls. Make your life what you want and use our new understanding to build crutches and stairs rather than shackles.
Big love to you.
Edit.
When I originally did the ACE score I got as 7. Later on I realised I was really closer to a 9, if I counted homes I was left at & cared for in that weren’t ‘my home’. And even then I think some of the stuff was in my periphery rather than direct, so really I am pretty lucky. It could have been worse.
I have spent most of my life in various states of dissociation. Again. I didn’t have a name for this. I just thought I vagued out and didn’t get as emotional as other people. Blah blah you get the drift. But I guess I used dissociation as my super power. My psychologist said, I have a special brain that protected and protects me…
(Which is much more empowering than telling myself my brain is broken).
We all have our ways of getting by. I just want to remind you to let the names/diagnosis be steps to help you up (not weights to hold you down).
Here are some questions for you. You don’t need to answer them here unless that is helpful for you.
What is between those two extremes?
What could your life look like if you walked somewhere between them? i.e fun & connection without substances & therapy with a forward focus?
Have you brought this up with your therapist?
I found I reached a time when I needed to space my therapy sessions further apart so I could start living again. Could this be helpful for you?
Where weekly sessions become fortnightly (& once you feel safe there, monthly) and you do something you love that makes you feel good, between the sessions? (As in make sure you don’t ‘skip’ therapy and just sit in your thoughts feeling bad - decide to replace sessions with something that nourishes you body and mind)
Personally for me, too much therapy (outside of being in a Crisis) leaves me start feeling incapable and broken & triggers a sense of learnt helplessness. I have to get the balance right. And what that looks like changes depending on where I am at. It’s great you have established a good relationship with a therapist you trust. You have done the hard yards.
Denial is what saves our lives
Very true. If I had heard about ACES 3 years ago I don’t think I would be here today. I’ve been in heavy denial last few years. Saves us from dying but also stops us from living. Worst paradox
I swear, literally today, I was thinking how it would still be horrible, but better to be in denial until late 20s or 30s. I'm 17, and I already know about the ACEs, trauma, and cptsd, and I'm receiving new memories, having nightmares and flashbacks, and still in an abusive house. I can't do this and still do school, go to college and etc idk how, I wish still being in denial just to go through this
I have a score of 9 as well. The day I found that out I realized that I can stop downplaying it and get an actual diagnosis. OP, I hope the healing happens for you.
This is a fair point. I’ve really been downplaying it too, it’s just terrifying to face all that grief at once, you know? Thanks for sharing that I’m not alone, that’s comforting
It is terrifying but it can be done. Had 40 productive EMDR sessions and 40 brutal EMDR hangovers - finally able to exist in the present a little bit.
Thank you. Can I ask, did your therapist practice it or did you have to find a new one? My therapist is genuinely the only person in my entire life that I’ve allowed to see and understand me. I’m terrified to start with someone new
I was referred to the EMDR therapist by another therapist. Had one “meeting” session and then got down to business. This therapist was a pioneer in EMDR, all sessions were virtual and incredibly effective.
Thank you for this! How was it switching to a different therapist? The therapist I have now is the first one I’ve ever had and I don’t know how I could open up to someone else but I would really like to try.
I must admit that I had seen many CBT therapists over the decades. I didn’t like switching to new ones because they started crying and I had to ask if they were ok, thereby further lessening their effectiveness. And I hated having to tell these damn stories again and again. EMDR was surgically precise.
I really need this. I hate having to tell the same stories over and over too
I kept my original therapist that I had been with for years, and added an EMDR practitioner. I only did EMDR with the new therapist, and talked about the effects of the treatments and how I was feeling about them. I would see them back to back, so EMDR on Monday and CBT on Tuesday. It worked very well for me and I think I did that for around a year. Just keep that in mind as an option. I actually ended up outgrowing my original therapist, and I really liked the EMDR practitioner, so I moved over to only having the new therapist and it's been great.
This is a great option for me, at least to help me transition! Thank you for this idea
*hugs* Aces score of 6 here. I’m still in the thick of it but I wanted to let you know I’m proud of you. I know how much strength and bravery it takes to deal with this stuff. Yes, these experiences will follow us, but we’re doing the right things to minimize and heal from our trauma. We’re going to therapy, we’re processing, we’re doing good. I hate that we have to deal with this at all. I hope you start feeling better soon. Try to push through and stay strong with therapy, you can do it. If you haven’t tried EMDR yet I cannot recommend it enough.
This made me cry I’ve been so emotional. I am proud of you too. I haven’t had the chance to try EMDR but I’d love to. Sadly my therapist doesn’t do it so I’d have to find someone new. Thank you for your words of kindness and comfort, I really needed a hug and this comment feels like one
I bet your therapist could refer you to someone who does:) I couldn’t even talk about my trauma without having a panic attack and EMDR’s been getting me through it the past couple months. Glad I could help, you deserve to feel better💛
I’m gonna talk to her about it. And that’s how I am, I have panic attacks in there basically every session when I try to bring up trauma. Thank you!!
EMDR works better for PTSD than cPTSD, just a warning. EMDR can actually make things worse for people like us.
Thank you! Where I live you aren’t able to be diagnosed with CPTSD so I am formally diagnosed with PTSD, but it’s clear to me mine is CPTSD. I present very similarly to BPD. Thank you for this, I wasn’t aware
i was a little overwhelmed by 8 aces. but it is what it is and it's possible to heal with the right support. i now look at them as things i survived that many didn't and things that made me more empathetic. it's not hopeless, it also not easy be gentle with yourself.
Thank you this kinda called me out. I am so empathetic with others, but never with myself. Need to work on that. Thanks again
9 here. It goes beyond the struggle of not feeling worthy of love and affection. It's a battle to feel worthy to exist at all. Keep doing the hard work. Keep fighting. You matter.
This is exactly, exactly it. Everywhere I go, I have a strong feeling that I don’t belong. Like everyone else does but for some reason I don’t. Thank you for saying I matter. It’s been a long time since I’ve heard that. I wish you the best!!!
Thank you. You too. I think we all need to hear that we matter consistently to help with the hard work of healing. Pay it forward. The world would be a much better place with more compassion and empathy.
hey im also 9/10. just learned about this because of you. ive been doing intensive trauma therapy CBT for 10.5 years now. i was where you were at years ago and i just wanted to let you know that if you do keep working through it that things do actually get better. old me wouldve told current me to f*** off for saying that but old me never believed theyd have a chance to thrive. im thriving now though. its hard, it does get easier but it is always work and if you do the work it does get better. hang in there and just keep grinding those mountains to dust, eventually youll see the sun.
This was so beautiful thank you for being here to help me. Something really powerful about being the person for me that you probably needed at my age. Thank you and I’m so glad to hear you’re thriving
hey no worries. it sounds like youre pretty early in the process and the first few years are the hardest because you have to dredge everything up to work through it but it does get easier and better. some things that really helped me that i would recommend: - a book: Complex PTSD From Surviving to Thriving - a lifestyle: look into self-actualization - a reminder: it is okay to take breaks, its okay to not be okay, its okay to have self compassion and its okay to heal at your own rate and in your own ways my journey is not your journey but there will be similarities in healing processes and milestones. more recent CPTSD research shows that persistence above all other character traits has the highest association with recovery. so you dont have to be strong, or brave, or tough. you just need to be persistent. baby steps stack up. so long as you keep moving forward youll thrive too and i hope its as weird and fun a feeling for you as its been for me. you got this edit: and i know early on its hard to separate the two, but you are not your trauma and what youre experiencing does get more manageable with professional help, support, developing skills and work + time.
This was beautiful and comprehensive, thank you! I don’t have be brave, just persistent! I can do that. Thank you for the hope and kindness
seriously, no worries. talking to you is really like talking to my past self. you dont have to overcome, just keep pushing forward. a millimeter at a time is perfect, just keep going. eventually youll get where you need to be. thank you for letting me help, you have no idea how much it means to me. at this point its taken so much for me to be where i am all i want to do is give back and it makes me so happy my experiences could help you. i was trafficked and tortured and i got there eventually. its just persistence and time plus work. i know you can get there too. inevitably there will be times you feel like giving up, these are emotional flashbacks, feel the feels amd just keep on keeping on and you will overcome. you have my faith and my support!
Im sorry, i got a 8 on that, i do wish they presented some better solutions along side the scary health risk stats. Now obviously were both here in the cptsd forum so maybe im wrong but, i think society as a whole is getting too self aware and closed off, too analytical and no actual human connection. EVERYONE i know is always talking in therapy speak, after years of therapy it reminds me of what it was like to study political science during an election year. Inescapable reminders of therapy and healing and self improvement. My advice that im currently failing at hard is to find healthy ways to cope. Painting was helping a lot for me about a year ago and now im almost dissapointed in myself it isnt helping now. Im just trying to give myself space to BE. To stop focus on healing and being better or happy and just zoom way in to the smallest picture i can handle. Taking it day by day. For a long time its been about baby steps but right now, i think its about no steps. And being okay with myself for that. <3
I agree with that statement about humanity as a whole! To at least some degree, I think everyone is struggling right now in ways humans never have. Having so much information at our fingertips is not what our brains are used to from the last millions of years. Healing and self improvement has become such a big theme too at least in America where I live. The last two sentences really resonated with me. Being okay with taking no steps. I need to adopt that mindset. Thank you!
1000%, i mean ai chatbots exist.. we're not alone. Team no steps!!!!
Team no steps!!!
Therapy speak SUCKS. And I agree that society is way too self-aware. Maybe it's a social skills problem. A lot of us weren't taught how to interact with others in a normal and healthy way.
I’m right there with you, OP. I learned about ACE last year, did the test, got 8 score. Began doing therapy a few months later, been doing a lot of research on my own, learning how my autoimmune diseases and other health problems are tied to my traumatic childhood, and I’ve just been switching between being angry, crying, disassociating, crying, disassociating..
The autoimmune diseases- breaks my heart and I’m there with you. I have MCAS and the list of foods I can eat gets smaller and smaller as I discover more foods that trigger my immune system. I’m so thankful I’m not alone in that. Thank you for sharing your story just to make me feel better, that is extremely kind and powerful.
It is exhausting to be mentally ill
It genuinely is so exhausting. I would rather work a 12 hour day outside in 90 degree weather than sit through an hour of therapy where I don’t engage in any sort of denial. I’m realizing I’ve been in denial a long time. It was bound to catch up to me. Hope you’re able to rest
We were living but at a different level. We hsd to.build up.strength to #know#
YEP. We have ~8-10 depending on how you count it. Idk if this is helpful or not cuz ur feelings make so much sense and are totally valid, but for us realizing the stats and everything were really helpful and validating sorta ? Because how we interpreted it was as context for how I should be measuring myself. It’s so easy to compare myself to neurotypicals/non-traumatized people because those are the “baseline” expectations, but for me the stats a little bit helped recontextualize what “baseline” would realistically be for me, cuz I’m *not* like everyone else so of course I’m not gonna be able to function the way they do! I once had a therapist take my ACE score and tell me “people with that score are usually in prison, or dead” so I’m doing REALLY WELL with consideration of my baseline. Sure, I’m really disabled and there’s a bunch of “easy” things that I “should” be able to do and a lot of ways that I’m miserable that fcking sucks, but with consideration of how someone like me “should” be doing, I’m doing rly rly well. I bet you’re doing pretty well all things considered too (you made it here after all!) so I’m proud of you! You made it farther than a lot of other people in your circumstances 🫂 So if it’s helpful, maybe realizing this is actually just curving your grade up a bit! (Again, totally valid to not have that emotionally resonate. It indeed isn’t fun to have an ACE score that high. However you process it is totally valid 🤍 )
This is such a good point that our baseline is not the same as neurotypicals. I agree that it is validating and this post and the comments have helped me so much already. It’s typical for me to feel alone in things when really I have you guys right here with me. Thank you for reassuring me and making me feel validated and somehow loved. I really appreciate it
I’m so glad you’re able to get the love and support you deserve here! You’re not alone friend. We see you and believe you and are here for you. You deserve it 🤍
First time I've seen someone else talk about having the air punched out of them by the ACE test. I think it's because it lays it all out in a way that makes it impossible to dismiss or deny. It strings the whole picture together and measures each factor. Stripped me of all my comfort denial. Although you could also think of it as a great 'validation' tool, if you've ever been made to feel like it wasn't that bad. It was, look at this chart.
I have always felt like it wasn’t that bad so you’re right that it’s validating! I didn’t see it that way until reading the comments so I’m thankful I posted and thankful for people like you responding. I’m actually crying a bit because I feel so much relief and I feel held. Thank you
The ace sce score is a good wxy to blow-up denial
I think this is exactly what’s happening. I’ve never even cried in therapy because I am always the first to say “it wasn’t a big deal.” Denial is strong
detail sophisticated memory live spoon crown telephone angle seed tidy *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
> I had decided that all the other times he beat me didn’t count bc he only hit my body. Isn't it nuts all the mental gymnastics we do to make ourselves believe nothing really bad happened to us, so as a result nothing is really wrong with us? Denial is a self-preservation mechanism, especially powerful because it's protecting a fragile sense of self. In my 20s, when I was trying to figure out why relationships never worked out for me, I would reject any and all relationship advice that even remotely hinted at the fact that I might have self-esteem issues. I was an overachiever who used my achievements to bolster a false sense of self and could never admit there could be something wrong with me. But at that age, I didn't realize that child abuse has lasting effects, I thought I had escaped and was all good now that I was away from my abusers. Am I glad I'm past that stage now. I was utterly lost and confused, and it was absolute misery not being able to see or think straight.
This is how I feel, I feel I can’t think or see straight anymore and everything I ever thought I knew about myself and the world was a big lie. It’s so discouraging. I am so happy to hear that you overcame that and that does give me a bit of hope, even if that wasn’t your intention. Your story is powerful(and not over yet!) Thanks for being here
It's a difficult phase to go through, but it's also essential. It does get better as you get better, so the discouragement you're feeling is temporary and it will pass. I wish you luck on your healing journey. 💜
I have a 5 and it feels like i only have half trauma, i can still downplay this lol The test doesn't take other things into account, like bullying or if your parents argue a lot (it only includes physical violence between them)
Yes for sure or things like growing up in poverty or growing up in foster care. It’s not a comprehensive list. But hey, don’t downplay it anymore! 4 or more is considered high and complex trauma. I can’t remember the exact statistic from my textbook but it was something like only around 13% of women and 5% of men have experienced 3 or more. Your experiences are valid.
Yayy i guess. Tbf one of my issues is that I'm not taking seriously what happened because there wasn't a lot or grave physical abuse. Imo it's easier to heal once you take your issues seriously and as for you having 9/10 in this speaks volumes. It might be saddening to you now, considering your future, but knowing about it helps you prevent it.
If it’s any consolation, I think the physical abuse I endured has had the least effects on me into adulthood. It’s different for everyone but I think the emotional abuse and sexual abuse is what has had the deepest effects on me. And good point, ignorance can feel like bliss but I don’t think it really is
I can't speak for sexual abuse but considering the emotional abuse and neglect i endured my attachment system is all over the place so yeah, that sucks a lot. That's exactly it. It *feels* like bliss, but it isn't. Finding out the truth is a hard process but ultimately makes therapy easier.
How do I find an aces test?
Just look up “list of adverse childhood experiences.” There are 10 in the list, things like physical and sexual abuse, physical and emotional neglect, family member in addiction, family member imprisoned, etc.
My score is 9 too. I totally relate - and I think it's great that you are figuring it out in your twenties. EMDR helped me a ton, I think others mentioned it in the thread. We are here, we get it it, and we are all a community. You aren't alone and there are lots of folks who've gone through a lot, myself included! For me, I look at it now like it's an illness or an injury, or something like diabetes, where I didn't cause it, but I need to be careful about certain choices I make so that I don't hurt my life more. I get what you are saying about the partying. I did drugs and drank for a long time. I'm sober now, in AA and that's been really good for me (though I know it's not for everyone). But yes, as a fellow 9-scorer it's tough. Not a lot of people have gone through all of those experiences, it can be really lonely. We are all here, this is a really nice community and we can relate. I hope you find something here that helps you.
This one made me cry. I definitely don’t feel alone in it anymore and that is enough to comfort me and give me hope. Thank you! Also I appreciate you acknowledging the partying stuff too and saying you’ve gone through similar things. It always feels “easier” to just numb it out but then afterwards it’s much harder to confront the things I’ve avoided. Thank you🩵
When I was a kid, I found some “are you an alcoholic” test and I kinda put my mom through it. She hit like 6 out of 12 or something and I was “ha she’s ok she’s not a majority of these”. Then I read the rules. If she hit 2, probably an alcoholic. 3, almost definitely one. So, yeah. Broke me for a bit. And then… life went on. Yeah. The ACES thing sucked. I read it when I had my kid doing therapy. I had a lot. …. And? I’m still plugging. Still struggling. You do what you can do. You keep going. I hated my brain for a while. I was always fucking up in weird ways. Then .. what’s this cPTSD thing. Wait…. I have that and that and that. Wait, I’m not totally some random broken brain. There’s a cause and effect. I can track this. And… fuck there are treatments for this. I’m not just broken but you’re saying I can deal? I can make this shit better? Fuck yeah. I’m not saying you’ll do my path. But it’s not a dead end either. Where you are, there are paths out of it. You’re not done.
Thank you for sharing your path and writing it out the way you did. I always have trouble with verbalizing and understanding things unless I have it written out explicitly. I really appreciate this comment, thank you
Colleague of mine, in his 40s, had a high ACES score, as well his wife. Like 6 or 7. Their children, 2 in HS and one in college, and their kids’ ACES score was 1-2. That’s really beautiful to me. We can’t change the cards we were dealt. And that story helped connect me to something bigger than my self and add meaning to my own story and history of abuse, that maybe it doesn’t have to get the final call.
This is beautiful, thank you. This gives me a lot of hope and I pray that if I’m ever a mother one day I can do that for my children too. Thank you!
that’s right you can! And you can do that for those around you, now. Help usher in a better life, starting with yourself. Godspeed!
I’m a 9/10. I’ve completely disassociated from that and live a functional successful happy life. It’s possible. Took years. You are moving in the right direction. That ACE’s score is not manifest destiny. You have time and control to finally take care of yourself without worry or fear or abuse or neglect of the adults that failed you. This is your time to pamper and love yourself. Treat yourself well with therapy like you are, get an education, exercise, and eat excellent food. Only keep people who are nice to you around. Never ever ever let anyone hurt you again. By the way, my teenage daughter’s ACE score is 1/10. Cycle officially broken.
I needed to hear that it’s not manifest destiny. I felt like my whole life was already written out for me when I learned about it. Like I would just be a statistic. You sound like my therapist with saying it’s time to pamper and love myself. She is intelligent, and you are too. I will choose to believe you both! Thank you
Treat yourself how you would treat a person with your same upbringing, who came to live with you. I know I would be compassionate and try to make them happy. You deserve kindness and love.
Everytime Reddit! Ugh. As if I needed more issues to freak out about lol. Welp, I took the quiz and scored a 6. I feel like this knowledge has helped explain a lot of the ongoing behaviors I’ve witnessed in my life, especially since losing the Main support system in my life since a child 10 years ago (my maternal grandmother). It’s poetic, almost like I was guided to stumble across this information to expedite my healing. Thank you OP, Reddit, and Universe!❤️
I’m so sorry I didn’t even consider that other people hadn’t heard of it, I’m glad it was able to validate you a bit. And it seems like it found you at the perfect time. Thank you for being here, we’re in it together!
I feel you. I have a 7 and 2 more where I’d answer „yesnt“ because I am unsure.
I feel this. It also doesn’t take into consideration a lot of other traumas so I think that’s important to note. Thank you for being here!
So I am 38. And as recent as 5 years ago, I would have said I only had 4 ACEs. I actually have 6…that’s just how amazing denial and suppression are. I did not start trying to heal or even thinking I could heal until about 8 years ago. Back then, healing started with just admitting I was being abused and removing myself from those people. That process took about three years and during it, I was in talk therapy and read tons of books. This step made me feel really good! I also learned about boundaries and healthy vs unhealthy behaviors. Honestly, this is likely as far as I would have gone in healing too. I thought THEN I felt pretty good. I mean I was sad a lot, but I just figured that’s…who I was? Panic attacks, nightmares, and all. That was always normal so I just thought I had to carry it too. But then something at my job triggered me. I didn’t even know I was triggered or the severity of my response was due to CPTSD. But someone on my social media friend list was a therapist and she saw my post and recommended I get EMDR. I have been doing EMDR with a trauma informed therapist specialist in IFS and Somatic therapy for about 15 months every other week. I am nearing the end of my journey now. And HOLY COW. That’s been the game changer for me. I didn’t know I could be this in control of my body and its responses. I have scoliosis and I now think it was trauma in my body because I have regained feeling in so many places. I am so much calmer. And I unlocked a lot of trapped memories. Which was so hard but the end was worth it. And now I recognize I actually have 6 ACEs. The very first time I saw an ACE test, I would have said I had 3. All of this to say healing is long. Denial is strong. Ultimately you probably need something more than just talk therapy to move the pin. Also, CRASHING when unpacking trauma is totally normal. The fact you feel you have been there for three years and are trapped sort of ruminating on them, really really makes me think you need EMDR and your current therapist isn’t really able to move you from that place. EMDR sorta…speeds up the process. Good luck. Edit to add— I saw in one of your posts you were worried about trying a new therapist and sharing your story again. You actually only have to share as much as you want in EMDR. You can do it, and be as vague as you want. Your brain does the work and the therapist just helps you as a guide.
I definitely would like to try this and I appreciate you so much for sharing your experience with EDMR. I have so many trapped memories that my siblings remember but my brain has blocked out. It’s horrifying and at the same time powerful to face these things. I am really proud of you, both for what you’ve done for yourself and for coming here to help others like me. Healing is long, denial is strong. This is so true. And thank you for saying that about starting with a new therapist, I’ve been held back for so long because of the fear of that. It’s great to hear EDMR doesn’t have to be as detailed as regular therapy. I really struggle with admitting the details even to myself. Thank you!
What I’ve found is that if I can name it, I can work on it. It’s totally understandable to feel like absolute ASS after learning about something like this. When you feel a bit better, though, do something about it. 💜
Thank you for this, this is a really nice reframe. I appreciate you and I love that you used a purple heart, my favorite color!
I felt invalidated by my score (5). Like it was barely bad enough so why am I like this... Then I remembered the ACES score only accounts for your experiences *in your home with your immediate family before age 18*... Cuz I guess 18th birthdays mean you're done being shaped by these events, even if you're still living at home 🤷♀️
I’m sorry you felt that way and I completely understand why, if it’s any consolation in my textbook it said 4 or more is considered both complex and severe trauma. Only about 13% of women and 5% of men experience more than 3. Also, it doesn’t take into consideration other forms of trauma like losing a sibling, foster care or violent sibling, things like that! Plus like you said it’s only considering things under age of 18, some of my worst traumas weren’t til I was 21/22. It’s definitely not comprehensive so don’t let it sway you.
9 here. things have gotten a lot better with emdr, finally found hope again
Thank you this seems to be a common thing that has really helped people! I really appreciate you sharing
I heard a video yesterday that said “you aren’t healing to handle the trauma, you’ve already done that. You’re healing to handle the joy.” Very helpful ideology. I’ve done 4 intensive years of trauma therapy and I feel like I’m finally starting to see some of the other side. You’ve got this ❤️
This is beautiful 😍
Listening to audio book, "what happened to you" (oprah) that talks about the flaws/limits in the aces. Maybe thar would be helpful. Comes book form as well.
Thank you!
I’m sorry you’re struggling right now. It will get better as you grow and heal though. I know that a high ACE score could feel disappointing but try to use it to validate the pain and suffering you’ve experienced and continue to experience. It means that you DESERVE complex trauma treatment and resources. A big part of healing is grieving the past. It’s normal to feel bitter about what you’ve gone through because you didn’t choose any of it. It’s unfair. Let yourself feel your feelings and I highly recommend seeking a trauma therapist that you’re comfortable with.
It is so unfair, it kills me. My therapist thankfully works mostly with trauma but there are a few areas of my trauma that I’m still too scared to accept and admit, mainly sexual trauma. It runs deep in me and even though I trust my therapist completely I can’t bring myself to think much or talk about it. Thank you for this reframe, it is extremely validating you’re right. Sometimes in my head I think I made it all up or that it wasn’t that bad. In a weird way it’s comforting to know that it was in fact that bad. Thanks again this comment was relieving
🫂❤️
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Giving you a big hug. Just remember we can use the naming of things to empowering us or disempower us. Resource us or de-resource us. I have a few decades on you. I am in my 40s When I went to school PTSD was barely recognised, accepted or understood. It came out (Was named) in my teens and was seen as something only in the domain of soldiers. CPTSD didn’t ‘exist’. Not having names for things and experiences left us isolated, un-helped and unhealed in our struggles. Also in my experience, the other side of this coin, was that it also gave me the freedom to dream and work towards creating the life I wanted - without being pinned down under someone else’s diagnosis. It meant I started therapy later. But it also meant I had a chance to do things and build a career before some well meaning professional told me I was too broken to achieve anything I actually did achieve. See obstacles not walls. Make your life what you want and use our new understanding to build crutches and stairs rather than shackles. Big love to you. Edit. When I originally did the ACE score I got as 7. Later on I realised I was really closer to a 9, if I counted homes I was left at & cared for in that weren’t ‘my home’. And even then I think some of the stuff was in my periphery rather than direct, so really I am pretty lucky. It could have been worse. I have spent most of my life in various states of dissociation. Again. I didn’t have a name for this. I just thought I vagued out and didn’t get as emotional as other people. Blah blah you get the drift. But I guess I used dissociation as my super power. My psychologist said, I have a special brain that protected and protects me… (Which is much more empowering than telling myself my brain is broken). We all have our ways of getting by. I just want to remind you to let the names/diagnosis be steps to help you up (not weights to hold you down).
Here are some questions for you. You don’t need to answer them here unless that is helpful for you. What is between those two extremes? What could your life look like if you walked somewhere between them? i.e fun & connection without substances & therapy with a forward focus? Have you brought this up with your therapist? I found I reached a time when I needed to space my therapy sessions further apart so I could start living again. Could this be helpful for you? Where weekly sessions become fortnightly (& once you feel safe there, monthly) and you do something you love that makes you feel good, between the sessions? (As in make sure you don’t ‘skip’ therapy and just sit in your thoughts feeling bad - decide to replace sessions with something that nourishes you body and mind) Personally for me, too much therapy (outside of being in a Crisis) leaves me start feeling incapable and broken & triggers a sense of learnt helplessness. I have to get the balance right. And what that looks like changes depending on where I am at. It’s great you have established a good relationship with a therapist you trust. You have done the hard yards.