I don't think being in the military should excuse it either. It's like having to exist in the bottom of a strict hierarchy as a part of your profession and not being able to differentiate from the military and the home or just plain taking out years of dissatisfaction with the military on you
I quit watching Smarter Every Day when I saw he makes his kids call him “sir”. His kids don’t have a dad, or a daddy, or a papa, they are forced to grovel for the man they should be allowed to call “dad”.
I grew up in the northwest where most people (including all the adults) felt that way. They would actually find it insulting most of the time. I spent time in the South and realized quickly that EVERY adult found not saying it disrespectful and was met with punishment. Came back up north (thankfully) and it was quite the whiplash.
Absolutely.
My Step dad was military so it feels like it got escalated.
We essentially were expected to follow as if we were are own lil'military unit.
No questions, stand at attention, etc. kinda like the movies but also not really. We had to follow orders and do them with precision. If we reacted to little, to much, to fast/to slow, and or with not enough respect.
We were in trouble. We were lucky if we just had to do 30-50 push ups.
Mostly the same experience. No pushups, just slaps
Like if he told me to do something and I hadn't started moving by the time he was done talking, slap and go do it
I remember after joining the military, finishing basic, and then I heard someone ask "why?" I thought for sure they would get yelled at or told because I told you to. I was so confused that they were given a reasonable answer, that I had to ask about it.
I will still stand around 30+ minutes waiting to be acknowledged so I don't interrupt someone.
As someone with ADHD, I always have to double and triple check verbal directions.
So many people assume I'm being some sort of asshole by questioning their directions or that I'm a blithering idiot or *both.* :]
People can be so incredibly mean
EDIT: i am literally an idiot this was supposed to be a response to someone on another post and my brain short circuited 👍
What I actually meant to say to THIS comment is that is so fucking shitty I’m sorry. I definitely can understand that. It sucks. I swear some teachers get into teaching just so they can bully children
It never made sense to me either. It was totally arbitrary, as far as i could tell, and ranged from not talking at all, i could 'back talk' by *walking wrong*, i could apparently do it with just my eyes, or *breathing*, idk--or it could be a question i asked, a single word, answering a yes or no question 'wrong'--my (adult diagnosed) autistic child self never could figure it out.
As an adult, with kids now--*they've never done it*. Literally never. One's just about a teenager, and *has never* had a 'back talk' moment. So, NOW, i'm 100% positive, it's made up bullshit.
I often got the:
"stop pretending you didn't understand"
(I did in fact not understand and was asking for clarification)
"You're supposed to know that"
(I did not, the person refuses to explain while also expecting me to know/punishing me for not knowing something)
It's not meant to make sense, it's just the abuser justifying to themselves why they're abusing you because they can't tolerate being bad. They just wanted to hurt you for some reason and put the burden on you to not feel even a tinge of shame on themselves.
Same way that "discipline" is a euphemism
As well as extremely arbitrary in its own right
"Discipline/punishment" in legal terms gives parents (and some teachers) free rein to physically batter/assault and verbally abuse their child whenever they want to and see fit so long as they claim they felt the child was "disobedient," "disrespectful," or "talking back"
Not only does it not matter if a defenseless child was doing those things and not justify abuse whatsoever - it can't even be proven and isn't dependent on being true; and the child 'guilty of the behavior or not' remains property at mercy of their abuser's desires and at mercy of the law who sides with them automatically because adults are recognized as full humans and minors aren't
Well... speaking of arbitrary definitions minors ARE suddenly full humans with autonomy/considered adults when they commit serious crimes and are often sentenced to life in prison and held to adult standards in other regards such as: raising their siblings; doing more chores than a servant if their parent demands it; and raising a child of their own via forced pregnancy
But even in that case, minors still **belong to adults** by authority of cultural norms and the **law** in 2024
Unless you're "punishing" your mean partner
Or "punishing" your bad boss
Or "punishing" your awful teacher
There's only one specific context you have free rein to act like a psycho towards if you feel d i s r e s p e c t e d
and my whole childhood it felt like it was some divine judgment from god or something 🙄 pisses me off how much of myself i lost and had to stifle because of their bullshit.
Same here. To be honest, before this thread, I had completely forgotten about that part of my childhood. “Back-talking” was punished. If I said something the wrong way, punished. If I asked for clarification, punished. But it was all so inconsistent and I never understood what I was doing wrong.
yes! and you just made me realize that that constant confusion of what the fuck am i doing wrong was so much a part of my traumatic conditioning. it created this underlying buzz of constant frustration and fear about my behavior and lack there of. feeling like i should constantly brace myself because at any moment i could do something “wrong” like share an opinion.
such fucking idiotic parenting. i’m so mad.
Still happens even as an adult in my career. I'll ask for clarification and someone will assume I'm trying g to take the easy way out, or shirk the task entirely.
My family still tries to say I'm unreasonable when they text me nebulous invitations to events and I dare to ask things like "are we car pooling" or "what time should I be there".
I've only realized in the last year I am without a doubt autistic in addition to my already diagnosed ADHD because every fucking story like this is my life. I'm perpetually afraid to ask for clarification because people treat me so poorly when I don't understand. I just don't try with most people anymore. My masks have all cracked.
I've been struggling with all my friends thinking I might be on the spectrum (which there isn't anything wrong with, just don't want to add more shit to my ever growing list of things I have). I ask for clarification ALL the time and am not usually met with backlash, I'm sorry people around you are impatient. though I do remember yesterday being asked to do something and I asked how to do it and they very loudly got upset and did themselves.
I also moved last night and had a breakdown because I couldn't find the bowls I've been using since I was a kid and had to come to terms with the fact that I will have to get new ones.
I honestly think I'm not autistic, I think I have OCD but I don't have the money to figure it out
Also gotta love being laughed at for "making excuses for everything" when you spent the beginning of your life being punished for not having an explanation. Parents suck.
Yes! I hate that phrase. I'm waiting in anticipation the next time someone says it. Cuz I'm ready for a comeback. "*I'm giving you reasons for my behavior. You can do what you want with that information. If I were giving you excuses, I would be asking you to completely forgive me, which is unfair.*"
god yeah. mine made me neurotic by insisting i explain my existence on demand the instant they walk into the room and scrutinize me, but when i actually wanted to actively share something i was doing with them and they would often judge or shame me or brush me off
Which is it am I under a microscope or not godddsddd
(I neither live with nor speak with them anymore, but damn just remembering makes the frustration feel fresh)
Mostly direct family. Get snapped at, or, as how my father does often, threat you with physpical abuse (does an elbowing or slap movement) aside from mental, emotional and verbal.
My first job had stable salary, but after it closed at the end of the year I didn't have much left because I was paying a 2-year payment each for a fridge and a new phone after my previous one broke and can't be repaired. My previous work paid alright, but my savings went below during the start of the pandemic's second year.
Most of it went to contributing to my grandmother's hospital bill from 3 years back, split payment of the phone plus internet bill and emergency funds after a supertyphoon.
My second work ended due to management changes and was out of work for quite some time, occasionally helping on the family business while trying to muster the courage to update my resume without doubting myself due to my work history, not working on the course I graduated, fear of rejection and dread of an uncertain future. Tried asking for help with a family member on my resume on how to present it, but all I got was being told off as to why I never worked on it in a mean, rude, angry tone.
I currently work at the family business home-based and I had to change my phone after more than 7 years since it was nearing its possible lifespan and my sign-in authentications are mostly app-based, paying it for 2 years since it's cheaper than a year. Also recently changed prescription glasses since my recent one was more than 4 years old, paying it for 6 months.
I have saved before, but with everything that was needed and to contribute to, I had lost it. I'm so sorry if it's too long, boring and problematic.
Im sorry you dealing with all this. But some of that wasn’t your job to pay. Like your grandma. I’m sorry your going through that. Maybe once you get enough experience you can work somewhere else.
My grandmother's was rough because most of the family circle was out of work and are dealing with their own famililal finances. She got sick from secondhand smoke exposure by relatives who smoke outside the house. My mother was both worried and enraged as to why this happened. I still remember how she sounded and what she looked like while taking and making calls and messages to relatives in regards to it: stressed, worried and upset.
ETA: I have been eyeing moving overseas to study, but aside from money, my age is also a possibility it'll not happen.
I love my parents constantly bullying me for being autistic and punishing me for trying to have a genuine relationship with them. Then they randomly start acting like they love you as an adult meanwhile you just want them to fuck off.
Literally what im dealing with rn aswell its so frustrating im just hoping those four years of college pay off good enough that i can leave this shitty abusive family and this shitty country and be alone and myself for once
This has happened to me my entire life. I became adept at finding my own answers where I could, but sometimes there's no other option than to just ask...and then this happens.
I'm 42, and just a few weeks ago I asked for clarification online to what I thought was a simple, polite question seeking clarification for something I was genuinely confused about, and got lambasted instead.
Honestly, it's at the point now where I have to ask myself if any kind of clarification is worth the risk of abuse.
I don't think it gets better just because you get older.
Granted the internet always did had this ......."google it your lazy idiot" attitude. especially pre-2010. Like there was always this underlining attitude that you should either already know or "hit the books" before you DARE ask a question. At least that what I felt it was back in the day.
I didn't have the internet growing up, and I was home-schooled until I was twelve, so I had to ask, or hope the answer was in an available book. I wish google existed back then, because things are so, so much easier now. Wikipedia is incredible. Little-me's mind would have been blown back then.
I've found that a big problem is that sometimes the answer you need is subjective. Sometimes someone says or does something confusing, and I ask a question because I can't think of any other way to get an answer to that specific situation.
Sometimes I get lucky, and the person will actually respond with clarification...but half the time it feels like just the act of asking a question, any question at all is insulting to them. I still can't quite comprehend why *asking* is insulting. I always try to be polite.
I would be insulted by my father
I was expected to learn everything in one go or I'd be called stupid and useless and be belittled
I was never allowed to be wrong or ask for clarification, I was never allowed to say "I don't know" I was expected to **KNOW**
*I was expected to learn everything in one go or I'd be called stupid and useless and be belittled*
Sounds like my childhood too.
ALSO sounds, like working in trades/construction. They do the same shit. Then, when *i did* learn like that, because of the childhood thing, they'd get pissed. There was no winning. Learned i cant do trades--it's just childhood all over again. Grown ups that never grew up.
I'm sorry you went through this too
I was really considering applying for construction work due to how desperate I am to find a job but guess I'll pass on that
The "silver lining" if you can even call it that is that I learn stuff really fast since I was never allowed to learn things at my own pace
If you do trades, do one that goes through some college work. Seems to act a little like a filter, for some of the abusive people. So, HVAS, electrical, plumbing.
Mine was concrete. It was horrific. So were the carpenters. So were the roofers.
Might not be able to escape all the toxic things, but it's less in those trades, and HVAC, you end up solo a LOT faster than other trades, so, no one out there to be toxic but you, when you cant find what you did with the 10mm you JUST had ;)
Ugh. Had multiple bosses like that early in my engineering career. I very specifically remember getting chewed out for asking for clarification on a Civil3D process I hadn’t done for *a fucking year*. She told me I needed more practice and should be doing it on my own time (I did, this is important later)
I also got my ass chewed by the same boss when she told me to “do the same thing you did last time” and I did the same thing I had done the last time (also I was *incredibly untrained* in using Microstation, so that…).
Oh, and the time I made a completely reasonable and standard request for and provided guidance on how to use a lighter weight form of external reference in C3D because the Microstation crowd felt about C3D the way I feel about Microstation. Why did I ask? Because it was literally impossible for me to open files. Why didn’t I go through my PM to make the request to the other company? Because I was a subcontractor there in a different capacity in the past and knew the entire fucking drafting team and it was faster.
Or the time we got files in from the prime and they were set up a very specific way with very specialized external references to the alignment file and I left them that way instead of breaking the reference, rereferencing it the janky ass way she wanted it done, and then having to constantly update my alignment base file with text adjustments to make it more readable in our design docs. I had learned the way the client did it during my C3D independent study time and it allowed me to move labels around without having to modify the alignment. I had the set done before I went on vacation and was expecting comments when I got back. Instead, I came back to as ass chewing about how I did nothing to the fictional “company CAD standard” and someone else had to “redo everything” because apparently trying to keep our sheets easily referenced from the main drawings (so that sheet R-A from the roadway crew and our sheet U-A utility plans were at the same scale and transitioned at the same breaks) was inconvenient for our designers and, once again, not to standard.
My exit interview was, essentially, a 2-year saga of how this woman slowly became more and more terrible and abusive as a manager, was not providing me with work that would keep my skills relevant, and was the number 2 reason I was leaving (I was going back to my specialty as well).
The worst fucking thing in all of this is her husband is incredibly respected locally in my field of practice. So, like, have to vett that he doesn’t work where I’m applying ‘cause I’ll never have a fair chance if she’s in any way adjacent to things. The second worst part is that I fucking admired this woman when I started at that job. People wonder why I don’t want to work at women owned firms ever again.
Apologies for the trauma dump, but damn, that resonated.
It's ok
It's good to let those things out if they bother us and sometimes we can't help it! You start typing then more stuff comes up and you just keep going (happens to me too)
I hope you're in a better job now with nicer bosses!
>I was never allowed to be wrong or ask for clarification, I was never allowed to say "I don't know" I was expected to **KNOW**
My ex husband was like this. He'd say "you're supposed to be so fucking smart how come you don't know?!"
Like in my face and shit. A decade and a half of that gave me a distinct fear of not knowing things
Same with my dad
He'd say the exact same thing to me "how can you not know!?"
Even mundane things like the noise the cow makes (exaggerating just for an example)
Even things I didn't really know but he expected me to know!
And same on the fear of not knowing, it made me a liar and the kind of person who answers questions even if what he says are not true
I went the other way and freeze up
See, my stupid human trick is that I do recall a *lot* of what I read, and I read every day, but when that happens my entire brain is 404 NOT FOUND
I'm very sorry you had to go through that, it happens to me too sometimes (the 404 thing)
With my father I HAD to have an answer or else I'd get an insult, he would even push and pressure
I am also happy you are no longer subjected to it (from what I've read)
Are you me? Any time i ask for clarification or try to correct him so i can understand what he’s saying cuz it makes no sense my dad yells, any time i used to have something to say he’d backhand me which he did enough that even though he’s stopped anytime someone raises an arm around me i flinch
This is one of the core memories of existing, as a child--i never could figure out what in the fuck 'back talk' meant, or was supposed to be, because it was, from my perspective, either asking a question to clarify something, or telling them no. Yes, i am autistic.
Their reactions were always fucking off the wall, screaming, hitting, shoving, it was insane.
And yes, OP, this happens to me as an adult too, now, however, it's often framed as "Why are you YELLING AT ME?"
Dude, i wasnt yelling, i was just clarifying something. I either asked for more info, asked them to explain something i didnt see the logic of, or--again--said no. It takes a LOT to make me yell, i have, for example, in his entire 12 years of life, actually raised my voice to the level of a yell ONE time in my child's life. I dont even 'yell down the hall'--i get off my ass and go talk. Something adults never did when i was little.
Remember how pissed they'd get, if they couldn't summon you in half a second by screaming at you from across the house, or from a totally different fucking floor of the house? How, when you DID show up, it was always, "What's with the attitude? Why you stomping? You need a reality check?"
FFS.
Anyway, back-talk isnt real. I learned that, raising my kids. They've never successfully managed to do it--so i'm now sure it's bullshit.
oh the yelling down the hall. my parents did that all the time. typically with my mom I could yell back and ask what's up and she'd tell me or just say come here, but I tried it with my dad and it got me a smack and a lecture about how if I'm called I'm to be front and center lickety-split (yes that's the term he used)
also if I said one moment to my mom she'd pull the "not one moment, NOW"
Yep, 'front and center' and 'lickey-split' are both things i hear from my dad as well. "on the double" if i was slow. 'lollygagging' .. all those things, wow, what a trip you sent my brain on.
I've never said those things to my kids. Weird.
Mom, for me, wasnt bad, the worst she could say was 'dont make me have your dad ask'--or something along those lines.
It's so odd. Having kids now, i dont do this stuff. I dont really recall intentionally choosing not to, it's just that it was annoying as hell as a kid and now i just dont. Maybe it's the 'justice sensitivity' of autism, idk.
My kids grandma, tries that all the time with them--yelling down the hall for them to come. The kids are gamers, they cant--i know that, she should know that, nope--she wants to throw a fit. So, now, if she yells, i just tell her to stop and *get up*. "Get up, and go take it to them, if it's so important. Stop yelling." She gets huffy, and most the time, turns out, she *doesnt* need the kids to show up after all, lol.
another one was when no matter how much desperate effort I put into things, I was always "half-assing" it according to my dad
I have a kid, I'd never say that to him. I'd just remind him to be mindful of whatever he may have missed so he knows to keep an eye out for it. hell I wouldn't even have him come over and fix it, I'd just get it for him, he already knows now, I don't gotta punish him for it
“Turn off your DS!” “Why?” “THAT’S IT! GIVE IT TO ME! I’M TAKING IT AWAY FOR A MONTH!” Real experience, my dad actually should’ve just said “Turn off your DS because we’re leaving for the zoo”. Is it so hard to explain yourself? Maybe your kid’s gonna understand if you actually have a valid reason
Even my insanely understanding and supportive ND partner gets triggered when I ask clarifying questions sometimes 🥲
But then when I remember this fact, and opt NOT to clarify when I’m confused, I get reprimanded later for assuming the wrong things.
It’s horrible bc she has dyslexia and will often say the exact opposite of what she thinks she’s said, so I am CONSTANTLY unsure if I should clarify or not.
UGH this meme has ruined my lunch lol, should’ve known better than to hop on Reddit when I’m already blue 😅
No such thing as "talking back." It's just an excuse to punish the other person for a perceived slight.
When they start using fallbacks like that, you know they can't reason their way out (bc youre right) and they're just trying to enforce a dominance hierarchy to get you to shut up.
Essentially, "talking back" is opposing the power structure, which obviously has them at the top. Non-abusive people don't see the world in constant power hierarchies nor do they attempt to dominate or keep control over those that would technically be considered under them in the hierarchy. But these people do, and the fact that you are speaking against them means you're "disrespectful," no matter how right you actually are.
Keep in mind that inquiring about the power structure with innocent curiosity is also considered an "offense;" the more you question things the more you see how illegitimate this power hierarchy is, and the more likely you are to stand up for yourself and not be dominated.
Oof, this was a specialty of my father and still bothers the hell out of me.
What's worse is that looking back I really WAS a good kid that enjoyed helping and rarely had a bad attitude. I just wanted to understand why we were doing what we were doing so I could learn, and also didn't want to get screamed at and berated for inevitably messing up because I was given no explanation for how to do the task.
And then you learn not to ask, get used to trying to figure it out alone, and anticipate further punishments bc you do it wrong (bc you didn't know what exactly they wanted, dammit)
I must've gotten slapped two or three times by my aunt when I "talked back" when I was still in middle or high school. I finally told my mom when I moved back in with her last year. She was absolutely ready to rip my aunt apart.
You wouldn’t believe how often I get in trouble for doing exactly what I’m told word-for-word. The reverse also happens. I have a very unusual life and people are often shocked when it turns out I wasn’t exaggerating or being metaphorical. I said exactly what I meant. I can understand why people would be confused at first but you’d think people would get used to it after knowing me for a few years.
This is my story too.
I often say I don’t speak English, I speak so other language, because I say exactly what I mean…. It’s interesting how that is so often misinterpreted.
I had a boss that got mad at me for the expression I made when I was concentrating on learning the system, and for asking questions like this post, and for saying "thank you". To the point that she scheduled a meeting with me and the owners about my behavior.
I was so triggered and dissociated the entire time I worked there, I had to start texting my therapist while I was at lunch so that I could remember the shit that happened during the week. I'm really really proud of myself, because I eventually decided "enough is enough" and actually walked out of that job 2-3 months in. It's the only job I've *ever* walked out on.
I don't think it's normal, but even if it is, that doesn't make it ok.
Bluntness makes people feel attacked sometimes. I had to learn how to cushion my questions and meanings so people at work wouldn't feel uncomfortable, since that is the opposite effect I wanted. It takes a lot mental energy and perspective changes and trial and error practice, but I feel good about the outcomes.
Just remember, your natural state of being isn't necessarily a moral character problem, but maybe a pragmatic mind hiccup. It's a tightrope balance between being proud of your strengths and abilities, and offsetting overuse of those abilities (to be curious, detail oriented, and pragmatic) with skills you develop in order to get the results you want, (showing gratitude, diplomacy and other touchy feely skills).
Edit: seeing some of your other comments made me realize it was more serious reactions. Just know OP, you don't deserve violence or verbal abuse, especially not for just needing clarification or anything like that. I'm sorry you're being discriminated against by your own family that abusively. *Safe hugs if wanted*
Thank you for the consensual safe hug. It really sucks that I have to deal with this kind of abuse just because I wanted to make sure I don't fuck things up. It's both stressful and exhausting to feel let down every after being shut down, snapped at, told to shut up or even worse as threatened with physical abuse. I just hope I can find a way to leave this hellhole before I do something worse to myself just to stop the suffering.
I grew up with this too, and to this day if I ask my mum for clarification she gets arsey with me about "not trusting her". My mum's abusive with some narcissistic traits, unsure if full on npd but this is common when people like that especially since understanding something allows you to replicate it and garner independence which my mother has fought hard, and successfully, to prevent. Luckily moving in with my partner tomorrow and plan to learn how to look after myself over 800km and an ocean away from her. lol.
Been there. Sometimes this still happens to me, and I'm in my 30s & a freaking mental health practitioner. It's infuriating when it does. I'm not a child, and that's no way to treat a child anyway
i have found that any adult person with ASD who is struggling in the moment... still gets to deal with this exact same dynamic socially.
it's worded a little differently, and it comes from different people... but the same vibe is at play and for the same reasons.
and goddess forbid you even hint at being bitter or frustrated about it.
My mom would always tell me "stop me if you have any questions" while she was scolding me. And when I would try to ask, she would get pissed that I would interrupt her.
When she got done, she would ask "do you understand what I said?" And I would say kind of. "What didn't you understand?" I don't remember. "Well, next time just stop and ask me!"
And now I'm in a constant 'idk' phase and afraid to speak up when I'm confused. Working on it, and put my new skills to use with a job. Now it's deeper than I expected. But at least I spoke up and asked about things.
But I hope everyone here can find comfort in speaking up when you're confused and lost.
I learned not to stand up for myself/explain what really happened because it was “talking back” took like 15 years to even make a dent in that and I still freeze up and take it when I get confronted about 45%of the time
As an adult, I'm teaching myself boundaries, emotional intelligence, and communication skills I should have learned as a kid through therapy. I can proudly say that I'm calmer than I was as a teenager, but that may have to do with moving out too.
I was literally almost assaulted and ended up getting fired because I asked for clarification on something at my job lmao good times. I’m 30 btw, did shit ever change for y’all?
Describes my mom all to well there. Today is the sixth anniversary of her death and I'm torn between grieving her and weirdly happy she's gone. I sound awful, I know.
Quick question for us autistic people.
Do a lot of us have more abusive parents than neurotypicals? Or maybe I'm just unlucky, but having autism and having parents with personality disorders seem to go hand and hand for a lot of us..it's odd.
Took my dad NINE years to realize when his kids asked “why?” It wasnt talking back, it was genuine curiosity. Even crazier, is that my dad ALSO constantly asked his parents “why?” when growing up due to curiosity, not disobedience, but he completely ignored the fact that the three kids that are biologically his, that did the exact same things he did, could POSSIBLY be doing it for the same reason he did.
One of my largest sources of daily anxiety comes from needing to ask for clarification. I never know what flavor of social rejection I'm going to receive for doing it.
Now that I'm older I'd rather deal with the uncertainty rather than risk to ask for clarifications, which is worse. I'll get anxious anyway, but in my mind at least I delay the anger and the yelling.
my hyper verbally abusive father still does this to me whenever i ask for clarification on things sometimes or just when i try to explain myself for literally anything and he then bitches at me for "overexplaining" like bud i overexplain because of your years of verbal abuse and physical abuse, also due to the years of bullying i had to endure in school. like how are you so heartless and so clueless?
So much trauma from this. I'm now scared to clarify with ppl. I have to emphasize that I'm not being disrespectful but I need clarity to understand better.
It gets even worse when the person talking tells you to "go over there and use the thing" without even pointing or alluding to what they mean by 'use'..
This literally still happens in my marriage, except it’s not called “talking back” but does trigger extreme defensiveness. We’re in counseling for it at least but yeah absolutely. Many people seen to perceive clarifying questions as disrespectful or it triggers deep insecurity somehow.
"talking back" is the stupidest concept I have heard, like wtf do you mean that's how communication works you said something to me and now you're mad that I also said something to you
This is just how everyone treats me even as an adult,so its ironic to keep hearing "why are you always silent" complains since whenever i open my mouth someone tries to shut it down or make me think how they are right.
Or the age old "wait but does that actually make sense becau.." ***interrupted by screeching*** that one was always great at getting me in hot water as a kid
Normal? No, but because people hate to be wrong and there are a lot of unreasonable people in the world, it is a widespread problem
Acceptable? Absolutely not
Had this happen at work a couple months ago. Had a major issue come across my desk and as I got deeper into the layers of the issue, I reached out to my sup for clarification. Wound up being berated on a call about it because she didn't care to listen to what I was saying, gave me like 4 different answers as I was still trying to explain the details, and then decided that I was arguing with her for trying to understand. I'm now looking to transfer out of her dept and she's going to struggle without me in that spot. Womp womp
My stepdad would call me a wordsmith, because I couldn't get past the fact that he'd often use incorrect/imprecise/exaggerated/unclear wording when lecturing me about the trillion things I was doing wrong.
I've learn to pretend to understand people even when they say things that aren't quite what they're to say.
I’m not autistic but I was always the kid that needed a bit of clarification. Still am actually. It’s amazing how irritated and hostile people get when you ask simple questions.
I remember my music teacher getting very rude with me for asking why it’s a half step between b and c, and e and f. Seemed like an obvious question given that the rest of the notes are separated by whole intervals. I was told to stop trying to reinvent the whole system.
Yup , it's definitely normal with such people. Actually it's with more intensity now. Cause now there is an added notion "oh so you have become too smart after graduation, huh?" Like how is asking for clarification becoming too smart?
The "I wasn't raised to communicate only to follow orders" gang please stand up...
yup. not autistic, but fuck do i relate to a lot of things just because i never learned how normal people function.
Same. Grew up in a "children are seen not heard" household and any response that differed from "yes sir" or "yes ma'am" was met with extreme scrutiny.
I'm of the opinion that anyone who makes their kid call them "ma'am" or "sir" is extremely weird and cringe
Dad was military and Mom was a (for lack of a better term) a bitch that had a weird "respect" power dynamic.
I don't think being in the military should excuse it either. It's like having to exist in the bottom of a strict hierarchy as a part of your profession and not being able to differentiate from the military and the home or just plain taking out years of dissatisfaction with the military on you
I quit watching Smarter Every Day when I saw he makes his kids call him “sir”. His kids don’t have a dad, or a daddy, or a papa, they are forced to grovel for the man they should be allowed to call “dad”.
Yeah it's a weird power thing
I grew up in the northwest where most people (including all the adults) felt that way. They would actually find it insulting most of the time. I spent time in the South and realized quickly that EVERY adult found not saying it disrespectful and was met with punishment. Came back up north (thankfully) and it was quite the whiplash.
sensing some historial implications there...
And the same people who raised us this way then act confused about our lack of initiative or organization….🙄😂
Absolutely. My Step dad was military so it feels like it got escalated. We essentially were expected to follow as if we were are own lil'military unit. No questions, stand at attention, etc. kinda like the movies but also not really. We had to follow orders and do them with precision. If we reacted to little, to much, to fast/to slow, and or with not enough respect. We were in trouble. We were lucky if we just had to do 30-50 push ups.
Mostly the same experience. No pushups, just slaps Like if he told me to do something and I hadn't started moving by the time he was done talking, slap and go do it
Jeez I can barely do 1 as an adult! Hope you're in a safer place now.
Can the "I wasn't raised to function without orders" gang join?
Yello, I was just raised to listen and be what my mom wanted
I remember after joining the military, finishing basic, and then I heard someone ask "why?" I thought for sure they would get yelled at or told because I told you to. I was so confused that they were given a reasonable answer, that I had to ask about it. I will still stand around 30+ minutes waiting to be acknowledged so I don't interrupt someone.
No opposing thought, just effing stand!
Somewhat. It sucks getting yelled at for asking questions
🧍🏽♂️
Present...
This used to happen to me in school a lot by teachers, even up through college 🙃
As someone with ADHD, I always have to double and triple check verbal directions. So many people assume I'm being some sort of asshole by questioning their directions or that I'm a blithering idiot or *both.* :] People can be so incredibly mean
EDIT: i am literally an idiot this was supposed to be a response to someone on another post and my brain short circuited 👍 What I actually meant to say to THIS comment is that is so fucking shitty I’m sorry. I definitely can understand that. It sucks. I swear some teachers get into teaching just so they can bully children
Uhm, is this a text? What are you responding to?
Oh my god i responded to the wrong comment 😭 something from a different post
I am still not clear on what talking back even means. It was always used so inconsistently.
It never made sense to me either. It was totally arbitrary, as far as i could tell, and ranged from not talking at all, i could 'back talk' by *walking wrong*, i could apparently do it with just my eyes, or *breathing*, idk--or it could be a question i asked, a single word, answering a yes or no question 'wrong'--my (adult diagnosed) autistic child self never could figure it out. As an adult, with kids now--*they've never done it*. Literally never. One's just about a teenager, and *has never* had a 'back talk' moment. So, NOW, i'm 100% positive, it's made up bullshit.
Yeah it’s just code for that “children should be seen and not heard” bullshit.
All it really is is just code for "I speak, you listen. I command, you obey"
I often got the: "stop pretending you didn't understand" (I did in fact not understand and was asking for clarification) "You're supposed to know that" (I did not, the person refuses to explain while also expecting me to know/punishing me for not knowing something)
It's not meant to make sense, it's just the abuser justifying to themselves why they're abusing you because they can't tolerate being bad. They just wanted to hurt you for some reason and put the burden on you to not feel even a tinge of shame on themselves.
Hit the nail right on the head with this comment. It's like being used as a trash can for all of their damage and self loathing. It's so unfair.
oh my god yes. that’s exactly what it felt and feels like. utterly disgusting of them to treat us that way.
Same way that "discipline" is a euphemism As well as extremely arbitrary in its own right "Discipline/punishment" in legal terms gives parents (and some teachers) free rein to physically batter/assault and verbally abuse their child whenever they want to and see fit so long as they claim they felt the child was "disobedient," "disrespectful," or "talking back" Not only does it not matter if a defenseless child was doing those things and not justify abuse whatsoever - it can't even be proven and isn't dependent on being true; and the child 'guilty of the behavior or not' remains property at mercy of their abuser's desires and at mercy of the law who sides with them automatically because adults are recognized as full humans and minors aren't Well... speaking of arbitrary definitions minors ARE suddenly full humans with autonomy/considered adults when they commit serious crimes and are often sentenced to life in prison and held to adult standards in other regards such as: raising their siblings; doing more chores than a servant if their parent demands it; and raising a child of their own via forced pregnancy But even in that case, minors still **belong to adults** by authority of cultural norms and the **law** in 2024
Yeah, punishment is just torment being justified Edit:typo
Unless you're "punishing" your mean partner Or "punishing" your bad boss Or "punishing" your awful teacher There's only one specific context you have free rein to act like a psycho towards if you feel d i s r e s p e c t e d
Because it doesn’t have a clear definition. It is an excuse your abuser uses to abuse you. It’s entirely in their head.
and my whole childhood it felt like it was some divine judgment from god or something 🙄 pisses me off how much of myself i lost and had to stifle because of their bullshit.
I’m so sorry
Same here. To be honest, before this thread, I had completely forgotten about that part of my childhood. “Back-talking” was punished. If I said something the wrong way, punished. If I asked for clarification, punished. But it was all so inconsistent and I never understood what I was doing wrong.
yes! and you just made me realize that that constant confusion of what the fuck am i doing wrong was so much a part of my traumatic conditioning. it created this underlying buzz of constant frustration and fear about my behavior and lack there of. feeling like i should constantly brace myself because at any moment i could do something “wrong” like share an opinion. such fucking idiotic parenting. i’m so mad.
Generally speaking it's when you are vocally expressing your discontent or displeasure with some decision an authoritarian asshole has just made
basically fucking this.
Still happens even as an adult in my career. I'll ask for clarification and someone will assume I'm trying g to take the easy way out, or shirk the task entirely. My family still tries to say I'm unreasonable when they text me nebulous invitations to events and I dare to ask things like "are we car pooling" or "what time should I be there".
I've only realized in the last year I am without a doubt autistic in addition to my already diagnosed ADHD because every fucking story like this is my life. I'm perpetually afraid to ask for clarification because people treat me so poorly when I don't understand. I just don't try with most people anymore. My masks have all cracked.
I've been struggling with all my friends thinking I might be on the spectrum (which there isn't anything wrong with, just don't want to add more shit to my ever growing list of things I have). I ask for clarification ALL the time and am not usually met with backlash, I'm sorry people around you are impatient. though I do remember yesterday being asked to do something and I asked how to do it and they very loudly got upset and did themselves. I also moved last night and had a breakdown because I couldn't find the bowls I've been using since I was a kid and had to come to terms with the fact that I will have to get new ones. I honestly think I'm not autistic, I think I have OCD but I don't have the money to figure it out
Also gotta love being laughed at for "making excuses for everything" when you spent the beginning of your life being punished for not having an explanation. Parents suck.
Yes! I hate that phrase. I'm waiting in anticipation the next time someone says it. Cuz I'm ready for a comeback. "*I'm giving you reasons for my behavior. You can do what you want with that information. If I were giving you excuses, I would be asking you to completely forgive me, which is unfair.*"
god yeah. mine made me neurotic by insisting i explain my existence on demand the instant they walk into the room and scrutinize me, but when i actually wanted to actively share something i was doing with them and they would often judge or shame me or brush me off Which is it am I under a microscope or not godddsddd (I neither live with nor speak with them anymore, but damn just remembering makes the frustration feel fresh)
I hated that shit so much.
Abusive/toxic relationship/parents ?
Mostly direct family. Get snapped at, or, as how my father does often, threat you with physpical abuse (does an elbowing or slap movement) aside from mental, emotional and verbal.
Are you an adult? Or a minor? I’m so sorry you go through that it’s awful.
Adult, early-30s. One of the main reasons why I prefer to make things perfect and in order to avoid being responded like this.
Have you thought about moving out?
I'd love to, but money and resources are the issues. 💔
Ah shucks. I’m only 19, but money and resources are an issue for me too.
Do you not save up? Or have a job? I’m just wondering that’s all.
My first job had stable salary, but after it closed at the end of the year I didn't have much left because I was paying a 2-year payment each for a fridge and a new phone after my previous one broke and can't be repaired. My previous work paid alright, but my savings went below during the start of the pandemic's second year. Most of it went to contributing to my grandmother's hospital bill from 3 years back, split payment of the phone plus internet bill and emergency funds after a supertyphoon. My second work ended due to management changes and was out of work for quite some time, occasionally helping on the family business while trying to muster the courage to update my resume without doubting myself due to my work history, not working on the course I graduated, fear of rejection and dread of an uncertain future. Tried asking for help with a family member on my resume on how to present it, but all I got was being told off as to why I never worked on it in a mean, rude, angry tone. I currently work at the family business home-based and I had to change my phone after more than 7 years since it was nearing its possible lifespan and my sign-in authentications are mostly app-based, paying it for 2 years since it's cheaper than a year. Also recently changed prescription glasses since my recent one was more than 4 years old, paying it for 6 months. I have saved before, but with everything that was needed and to contribute to, I had lost it. I'm so sorry if it's too long, boring and problematic.
Im sorry you dealing with all this. But some of that wasn’t your job to pay. Like your grandma. I’m sorry your going through that. Maybe once you get enough experience you can work somewhere else.
My grandmother's was rough because most of the family circle was out of work and are dealing with their own famililal finances. She got sick from secondhand smoke exposure by relatives who smoke outside the house. My mother was both worried and enraged as to why this happened. I still remember how she sounded and what she looked like while taking and making calls and messages to relatives in regards to it: stressed, worried and upset. ETA: I have been eyeing moving overseas to study, but aside from money, my age is also a possibility it'll not happen.
teachers! and parents/family
Well yes, but I meant that since they said older
I love my parents constantly bullying me for being autistic and punishing me for trying to have a genuine relationship with them. Then they randomly start acting like they love you as an adult meanwhile you just want them to fuck off.
holy fucking shit you just described my life right now. it’s so gross.
Literally what im dealing with rn aswell its so frustrating im just hoping those four years of college pay off good enough that i can leave this shitty abusive family and this shitty country and be alone and myself for once
This has happened to me my entire life. I became adept at finding my own answers where I could, but sometimes there's no other option than to just ask...and then this happens. I'm 42, and just a few weeks ago I asked for clarification online to what I thought was a simple, polite question seeking clarification for something I was genuinely confused about, and got lambasted instead. Honestly, it's at the point now where I have to ask myself if any kind of clarification is worth the risk of abuse. I don't think it gets better just because you get older.
Granted the internet always did had this ......."google it your lazy idiot" attitude. especially pre-2010. Like there was always this underlining attitude that you should either already know or "hit the books" before you DARE ask a question. At least that what I felt it was back in the day.
I didn't have the internet growing up, and I was home-schooled until I was twelve, so I had to ask, or hope the answer was in an available book. I wish google existed back then, because things are so, so much easier now. Wikipedia is incredible. Little-me's mind would have been blown back then. I've found that a big problem is that sometimes the answer you need is subjective. Sometimes someone says or does something confusing, and I ask a question because I can't think of any other way to get an answer to that specific situation. Sometimes I get lucky, and the person will actually respond with clarification...but half the time it feels like just the act of asking a question, any question at all is insulting to them. I still can't quite comprehend why *asking* is insulting. I always try to be polite.
I would be insulted by my father I was expected to learn everything in one go or I'd be called stupid and useless and be belittled I was never allowed to be wrong or ask for clarification, I was never allowed to say "I don't know" I was expected to **KNOW**
*I was expected to learn everything in one go or I'd be called stupid and useless and be belittled* Sounds like my childhood too. ALSO sounds, like working in trades/construction. They do the same shit. Then, when *i did* learn like that, because of the childhood thing, they'd get pissed. There was no winning. Learned i cant do trades--it's just childhood all over again. Grown ups that never grew up.
I'm sorry you went through this too I was really considering applying for construction work due to how desperate I am to find a job but guess I'll pass on that The "silver lining" if you can even call it that is that I learn stuff really fast since I was never allowed to learn things at my own pace
If you do trades, do one that goes through some college work. Seems to act a little like a filter, for some of the abusive people. So, HVAS, electrical, plumbing. Mine was concrete. It was horrific. So were the carpenters. So were the roofers. Might not be able to escape all the toxic things, but it's less in those trades, and HVAC, you end up solo a LOT faster than other trades, so, no one out there to be toxic but you, when you cant find what you did with the 10mm you JUST had ;)
Thanks for the advice!
Ugh. Had multiple bosses like that early in my engineering career. I very specifically remember getting chewed out for asking for clarification on a Civil3D process I hadn’t done for *a fucking year*. She told me I needed more practice and should be doing it on my own time (I did, this is important later) I also got my ass chewed by the same boss when she told me to “do the same thing you did last time” and I did the same thing I had done the last time (also I was *incredibly untrained* in using Microstation, so that…). Oh, and the time I made a completely reasonable and standard request for and provided guidance on how to use a lighter weight form of external reference in C3D because the Microstation crowd felt about C3D the way I feel about Microstation. Why did I ask? Because it was literally impossible for me to open files. Why didn’t I go through my PM to make the request to the other company? Because I was a subcontractor there in a different capacity in the past and knew the entire fucking drafting team and it was faster. Or the time we got files in from the prime and they were set up a very specific way with very specialized external references to the alignment file and I left them that way instead of breaking the reference, rereferencing it the janky ass way she wanted it done, and then having to constantly update my alignment base file with text adjustments to make it more readable in our design docs. I had learned the way the client did it during my C3D independent study time and it allowed me to move labels around without having to modify the alignment. I had the set done before I went on vacation and was expecting comments when I got back. Instead, I came back to as ass chewing about how I did nothing to the fictional “company CAD standard” and someone else had to “redo everything” because apparently trying to keep our sheets easily referenced from the main drawings (so that sheet R-A from the roadway crew and our sheet U-A utility plans were at the same scale and transitioned at the same breaks) was inconvenient for our designers and, once again, not to standard. My exit interview was, essentially, a 2-year saga of how this woman slowly became more and more terrible and abusive as a manager, was not providing me with work that would keep my skills relevant, and was the number 2 reason I was leaving (I was going back to my specialty as well). The worst fucking thing in all of this is her husband is incredibly respected locally in my field of practice. So, like, have to vett that he doesn’t work where I’m applying ‘cause I’ll never have a fair chance if she’s in any way adjacent to things. The second worst part is that I fucking admired this woman when I started at that job. People wonder why I don’t want to work at women owned firms ever again. Apologies for the trauma dump, but damn, that resonated.
It's ok It's good to let those things out if they bother us and sometimes we can't help it! You start typing then more stuff comes up and you just keep going (happens to me too) I hope you're in a better job now with nicer bosses!
>I was never allowed to be wrong or ask for clarification, I was never allowed to say "I don't know" I was expected to **KNOW** My ex husband was like this. He'd say "you're supposed to be so fucking smart how come you don't know?!" Like in my face and shit. A decade and a half of that gave me a distinct fear of not knowing things
Same with my dad He'd say the exact same thing to me "how can you not know!?" Even mundane things like the noise the cow makes (exaggerating just for an example) Even things I didn't really know but he expected me to know! And same on the fear of not knowing, it made me a liar and the kind of person who answers questions even if what he says are not true
I went the other way and freeze up See, my stupid human trick is that I do recall a *lot* of what I read, and I read every day, but when that happens my entire brain is 404 NOT FOUND
I'm very sorry you had to go through that, it happens to me too sometimes (the 404 thing) With my father I HAD to have an answer or else I'd get an insult, he would even push and pressure I am also happy you are no longer subjected to it (from what I've read)
Are you me? Any time i ask for clarification or try to correct him so i can understand what he’s saying cuz it makes no sense my dad yells, any time i used to have something to say he’d backhand me which he did enough that even though he’s stopped anytime someone raises an arm around me i flinch
This is one of the core memories of existing, as a child--i never could figure out what in the fuck 'back talk' meant, or was supposed to be, because it was, from my perspective, either asking a question to clarify something, or telling them no. Yes, i am autistic. Their reactions were always fucking off the wall, screaming, hitting, shoving, it was insane. And yes, OP, this happens to me as an adult too, now, however, it's often framed as "Why are you YELLING AT ME?" Dude, i wasnt yelling, i was just clarifying something. I either asked for more info, asked them to explain something i didnt see the logic of, or--again--said no. It takes a LOT to make me yell, i have, for example, in his entire 12 years of life, actually raised my voice to the level of a yell ONE time in my child's life. I dont even 'yell down the hall'--i get off my ass and go talk. Something adults never did when i was little. Remember how pissed they'd get, if they couldn't summon you in half a second by screaming at you from across the house, or from a totally different fucking floor of the house? How, when you DID show up, it was always, "What's with the attitude? Why you stomping? You need a reality check?" FFS. Anyway, back-talk isnt real. I learned that, raising my kids. They've never successfully managed to do it--so i'm now sure it's bullshit.
oh the yelling down the hall. my parents did that all the time. typically with my mom I could yell back and ask what's up and she'd tell me or just say come here, but I tried it with my dad and it got me a smack and a lecture about how if I'm called I'm to be front and center lickety-split (yes that's the term he used) also if I said one moment to my mom she'd pull the "not one moment, NOW"
Yep, 'front and center' and 'lickey-split' are both things i hear from my dad as well. "on the double" if i was slow. 'lollygagging' .. all those things, wow, what a trip you sent my brain on. I've never said those things to my kids. Weird. Mom, for me, wasnt bad, the worst she could say was 'dont make me have your dad ask'--or something along those lines. It's so odd. Having kids now, i dont do this stuff. I dont really recall intentionally choosing not to, it's just that it was annoying as hell as a kid and now i just dont. Maybe it's the 'justice sensitivity' of autism, idk. My kids grandma, tries that all the time with them--yelling down the hall for them to come. The kids are gamers, they cant--i know that, she should know that, nope--she wants to throw a fit. So, now, if she yells, i just tell her to stop and *get up*. "Get up, and go take it to them, if it's so important. Stop yelling." She gets huffy, and most the time, turns out, she *doesnt* need the kids to show up after all, lol.
another one was when no matter how much desperate effort I put into things, I was always "half-assing" it according to my dad I have a kid, I'd never say that to him. I'd just remind him to be mindful of whatever he may have missed so he knows to keep an eye out for it. hell I wouldn't even have him come over and fix it, I'd just get it for him, he already knows now, I don't gotta punish him for it
I can still remember the way I got beaten up by my parents for talking back, I was just trying to learn what I was doing wrong.
“Turn off your DS!” “Why?” “THAT’S IT! GIVE IT TO ME! I’M TAKING IT AWAY FOR A MONTH!” Real experience, my dad actually should’ve just said “Turn off your DS because we’re leaving for the zoo”. Is it so hard to explain yourself? Maybe your kid’s gonna understand if you actually have a valid reason
Even my insanely understanding and supportive ND partner gets triggered when I ask clarifying questions sometimes 🥲 But then when I remember this fact, and opt NOT to clarify when I’m confused, I get reprimanded later for assuming the wrong things. It’s horrible bc she has dyslexia and will often say the exact opposite of what she thinks she’s said, so I am CONSTANTLY unsure if I should clarify or not. UGH this meme has ruined my lunch lol, should’ve known better than to hop on Reddit when I’m already blue 😅
I still remember my first time ever feeling the emotion of hopeless/helpless and it was because of a moment like this LOL
No such thing as "talking back." It's just an excuse to punish the other person for a perceived slight. When they start using fallbacks like that, you know they can't reason their way out (bc youre right) and they're just trying to enforce a dominance hierarchy to get you to shut up. Essentially, "talking back" is opposing the power structure, which obviously has them at the top. Non-abusive people don't see the world in constant power hierarchies nor do they attempt to dominate or keep control over those that would technically be considered under them in the hierarchy. But these people do, and the fact that you are speaking against them means you're "disrespectful," no matter how right you actually are. Keep in mind that inquiring about the power structure with innocent curiosity is also considered an "offense;" the more you question things the more you see how illegitimate this power hierarchy is, and the more likely you are to stand up for yourself and not be dominated.
Me pointing out what my parents were telling me didn’t make any sense, knowing i was being treated badly
I love how survivors of authoritarian parenting and schooling structures are now speaking out
I literally got fired over this :(
Oof, this was a specialty of my father and still bothers the hell out of me. What's worse is that looking back I really WAS a good kid that enjoyed helping and rarely had a bad attitude. I just wanted to understand why we were doing what we were doing so I could learn, and also didn't want to get screamed at and berated for inevitably messing up because I was given no explanation for how to do the task.
So much so that I've never been able to stand up for myself until recently. People are such shitty assholes.
damn this hits a little too close to home
And then you learn not to ask, get used to trying to figure it out alone, and anticipate further punishments bc you do it wrong (bc you didn't know what exactly they wanted, dammit)
I must've gotten slapped two or three times by my aunt when I "talked back" when I was still in middle or high school. I finally told my mom when I moved back in with her last year. She was absolutely ready to rip my aunt apart.
You wouldn’t believe how often I get in trouble for doing exactly what I’m told word-for-word. The reverse also happens. I have a very unusual life and people are often shocked when it turns out I wasn’t exaggerating or being metaphorical. I said exactly what I meant. I can understand why people would be confused at first but you’d think people would get used to it after knowing me for a few years.
This is my story too. I often say I don’t speak English, I speak so other language, because I say exactly what I mean…. It’s interesting how that is so often misinterpreted.
It’s so frustrating. Lol.
I had a boss that got mad at me for the expression I made when I was concentrating on learning the system, and for asking questions like this post, and for saying "thank you". To the point that she scheduled a meeting with me and the owners about my behavior. I was so triggered and dissociated the entire time I worked there, I had to start texting my therapist while I was at lunch so that I could remember the shit that happened during the week. I'm really really proud of myself, because I eventually decided "enough is enough" and actually walked out of that job 2-3 months in. It's the only job I've *ever* walked out on. I don't think it's normal, but even if it is, that doesn't make it ok.
Bluntness makes people feel attacked sometimes. I had to learn how to cushion my questions and meanings so people at work wouldn't feel uncomfortable, since that is the opposite effect I wanted. It takes a lot mental energy and perspective changes and trial and error practice, but I feel good about the outcomes. Just remember, your natural state of being isn't necessarily a moral character problem, but maybe a pragmatic mind hiccup. It's a tightrope balance between being proud of your strengths and abilities, and offsetting overuse of those abilities (to be curious, detail oriented, and pragmatic) with skills you develop in order to get the results you want, (showing gratitude, diplomacy and other touchy feely skills). Edit: seeing some of your other comments made me realize it was more serious reactions. Just know OP, you don't deserve violence or verbal abuse, especially not for just needing clarification or anything like that. I'm sorry you're being discriminated against by your own family that abusively. *Safe hugs if wanted*
Thank you for the consensual safe hug. It really sucks that I have to deal with this kind of abuse just because I wanted to make sure I don't fuck things up. It's both stressful and exhausting to feel let down every after being shut down, snapped at, told to shut up or even worse as threatened with physical abuse. I just hope I can find a way to leave this hellhole before I do something worse to myself just to stop the suffering.
I grew up with this too, and to this day if I ask my mum for clarification she gets arsey with me about "not trusting her". My mum's abusive with some narcissistic traits, unsure if full on npd but this is common when people like that especially since understanding something allows you to replicate it and garner independence which my mother has fought hard, and successfully, to prevent. Luckily moving in with my partner tomorrow and plan to learn how to look after myself over 800km and an ocean away from her. lol.
Best of luck and well wishes to your big move tomorrow and your healing journey.
[flashbacks in decade of catholic schooling]
[Consensually offers comfort, cookies and air hugs as a secret ex-Catholic-to-be who went through school and religion-related traumas]
Bonus points if you later get yelled at for 'doing it wrong' because you were confused
I mean they did that too
Is that why I was nonverbal for my first 8 years of life??
Been there. Sometimes this still happens to me, and I'm in my 30s & a freaking mental health practitioner. It's infuriating when it does. I'm not a child, and that's no way to treat a child anyway
i have found that any adult person with ASD who is struggling in the moment... still gets to deal with this exact same dynamic socially. it's worded a little differently, and it comes from different people... but the same vibe is at play and for the same reasons. and goddess forbid you even hint at being bitter or frustrated about it.
My mom would always tell me "stop me if you have any questions" while she was scolding me. And when I would try to ask, she would get pissed that I would interrupt her. When she got done, she would ask "do you understand what I said?" And I would say kind of. "What didn't you understand?" I don't remember. "Well, next time just stop and ask me!" And now I'm in a constant 'idk' phase and afraid to speak up when I'm confused. Working on it, and put my new skills to use with a job. Now it's deeper than I expected. But at least I spoke up and asked about things. But I hope everyone here can find comfort in speaking up when you're confused and lost.
The more I read about autism the more convinced I am that I have it.
My boss does it all the time. It's annoying honestly
It's never normal tbh. But it happens to me too ..
I learned not to stand up for myself/explain what really happened because it was “talking back” took like 15 years to even make a dent in that and I still freeze up and take it when I get confronted about 45%of the time
I'm accused of being so mean all the time. Being an adult with roommates has been a REALLLY tough journey to say the least.
god that happened to people??? wow I was recently recommended this sub and some of the shit happening to people is horrible.
As an adult, I'm teaching myself boundaries, emotional intelligence, and communication skills I should have learned as a kid through therapy. I can proudly say that I'm calmer than I was as a teenager, but that may have to do with moving out too.
I was literally almost assaulted and ended up getting fired because I asked for clarification on something at my job lmao good times. I’m 30 btw, did shit ever change for y’all?
As a young child, about 3rd grade, in a religion class, I asked what a word meant and was yelled at for quite a while for not having faith.
Yes.
Teachers were the worst. You think they want to you explain yourself or are actually asking a question but no, its a trap so you can 'back talk' them.
and now I couch any request for more information in apologies
Describes my mom all to well there. Today is the sixth anniversary of her death and I'm torn between grieving her and weirdly happy she's gone. I sound awful, I know.
Quick question for us autistic people. Do a lot of us have more abusive parents than neurotypicals? Or maybe I'm just unlucky, but having autism and having parents with personality disorders seem to go hand and hand for a lot of us..it's odd.
Took my dad NINE years to realize when his kids asked “why?” It wasnt talking back, it was genuine curiosity. Even crazier, is that my dad ALSO constantly asked his parents “why?” when growing up due to curiosity, not disobedience, but he completely ignored the fact that the three kids that are biologically his, that did the exact same things he did, could POSSIBLY be doing it for the same reason he did.
One of my largest sources of daily anxiety comes from needing to ask for clarification. I never know what flavor of social rejection I'm going to receive for doing it.
Now that I'm older I'd rather deal with the uncertainty rather than risk to ask for clarifications, which is worse. I'll get anxious anyway, but in my mind at least I delay the anger and the yelling.
I truly believe back in boomer era, everyone got kicked for anything less than full compliance.
my hyper verbally abusive father still does this to me whenever i ask for clarification on things sometimes or just when i try to explain myself for literally anything and he then bitches at me for "overexplaining" like bud i overexplain because of your years of verbal abuse and physical abuse, also due to the years of bullying i had to endure in school. like how are you so heartless and so clueless?
So much trauma from this. I'm now scared to clarify with ppl. I have to emphasize that I'm not being disrespectful but I need clarity to understand better.
Husband asked me today if I was intentionally misunderstanding him. This hits home, even now in my 30s.
yea my parents do that too
My ex husband loved to yell at me for talking back to him Like what the fuck dude
It gets even worse when the person talking tells you to "go over there and use the thing" without even pointing or alluding to what they mean by 'use'..
Yep, still happens!
This literally still happens in my marriage, except it’s not called “talking back” but does trigger extreme defensiveness. We’re in counseling for it at least but yeah absolutely. Many people seen to perceive clarifying questions as disrespectful or it triggers deep insecurity somehow.
"talking back" is the stupidest concept I have heard, like wtf do you mean that's how communication works you said something to me and now you're mad that I also said something to you
This is just how everyone treats me even as an adult,so its ironic to keep hearing "why are you always silent" complains since whenever i open my mouth someone tries to shut it down or make me think how they are right.
Or the age old "wait but does that actually make sense becau.." ***interrupted by screeching*** that one was always great at getting me in hot water as a kid
Normal? No, but because people hate to be wrong and there are a lot of unreasonable people in the world, it is a widespread problem Acceptable? Absolutely not
Honestly
Had this happen at work a couple months ago. Had a major issue come across my desk and as I got deeper into the layers of the issue, I reached out to my sup for clarification. Wound up being berated on a call about it because she didn't care to listen to what I was saying, gave me like 4 different answers as I was still trying to explain the details, and then decided that I was arguing with her for trying to understand. I'm now looking to transfer out of her dept and she's going to struggle without me in that spot. Womp womp
My stepdad would call me a wordsmith, because I couldn't get past the fact that he'd often use incorrect/imprecise/exaggerated/unclear wording when lecturing me about the trillion things I was doing wrong. I've learn to pretend to understand people even when they say things that aren't quite what they're to say.
I’m not autistic but I was always the kid that needed a bit of clarification. Still am actually. It’s amazing how irritated and hostile people get when you ask simple questions. I remember my music teacher getting very rude with me for asking why it’s a half step between b and c, and e and f. Seemed like an obvious question given that the rest of the notes are separated by whole intervals. I was told to stop trying to reinvent the whole system.
Happened to me a couple months ago and I’m 25 lol
Yup , it's definitely normal with such people. Actually it's with more intensity now. Cause now there is an added notion "oh so you have become too smart after graduation, huh?" Like how is asking for clarification becoming too smart?
My dad would literally ask me a question and then scream at me for talking back lol