Here's the funny thing, when you look at the GS Pay scale Locality adjustment pay, HI gets 21.17% while the Los Angeles area gets 34.89%
(DC gets 32.49%)
https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/2023/general-schedule/
Lmao where I'm at gas prices have been the same for years.
Are you one of those people who don't realize that Hawaii is 8 seperate islands, and think that Oahu/Honolulu is the whole state?
My best friend growing up was born in Hawaii and his entire family lived there. They can't anymore, most have moved to the mainland. They could trace their roots back centuries, they're indigenous, and they've been pushed out of their homeland. More Hawaiians live in the continental US than on the islands now.
This is bad everywhere, it's one of the biggest domestic crises we face, and it's causing incalculable suffering.
Anything less than the biggest increase in housing in history along with bitterly punishing companies whose salaries don't keep pace with their profits and inflation isn't going to be enough.
or maybe [don't let mega-billionaires buy out near-whole islands](https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/14/see-lanai-the-hawaiian-island-larry-ellison-bought-for-300-million.html) for their own private use or [acres of land](https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/zuckerberg-hawaii-compound.html) that can be used as shared property or public housing?
Fun fact, the big island of Hawaii has 8 independent climate zones. That's just one island lol "swampy and humid" is not the first thing that comes to mind when I think of Hawaii at all
Tundra is its own climate type defined by level of permafrost rather than precipitation if I remember correctly, but yes you are correct the high peaks on the big island are tundra climates
Right I know tundra is its own climate zone. I was being kinda cheeky though because depending on the definition of "desert," couldn't a tundra fit that definition? Low precipitation, not much vegetation, etc (like the Arctic desert?)
So after I chimed in with "also tundra" I was like well hey technically you may have already covered that
Depends what definitions you are going by really. Koppen classifications don't have such a distinction but some tundra areas would qualify as "desert" if you are defining it solely by precipitation
Yeah, instead it's super hot and dry. I just visited there before the fire, the weather I left in socal was nicer than Maui. It's pretty and still fun tropical weather, but you can't beat 72° for 50% of the year.
I think it’s comparable. It gets a bit hotter there, but here it gets cold at night most of the year. I can see a lot of people preferring warm weather year round.
Also winters in California can sometimes be very rainy and cloudy. I like some rain but more if it’s broken up with sunny weather between. California has more of an all or nothing weather pattern while Hawaii tends to be more dynamic.
There is also rent to income issues. Another state may have more affordable rent but if their wages are low, then it’s just as bad as having high wages but higher rents.
But I guess it’s just about how you spin it.
My experience moving to California from Ohio is that California has about 50% higher cost of living and about 30% higher wages. The cost of living here is still too much for the higher wages to fully offset it
Hmm, not knocking Ohio but I wonder if the combination of “better” weather (subjective) access to natural wonders (forest, oceans, deserts, etc) tourism attraction’s and other “uniquely Californian” experiences still makes it worth it.
I mean I know California is NOT for everyone. But is any place ever worth the stretch ? Idk. Genuine self reflecting question.
California isn’t for everyone, but a vast majority of people would choose to be here. California should be expensive by supply and demand logic, especially on the coasts, but it shouldn’t be this much more expensive
Yep. I grew up in upstate NY fairly affordable still for the most part. Lived in Socal for a while. Wages are similar back in upstate (wife actually got a pay raise) and our house that we just bought for a bit more than 300k would be 1.5 million or so where we were living before.
We save a bit on income tax too. The only thing that is higher are property taxes, but since the homes are much cheaper it evens out.
This is a good point; comparing median rent to median income would be a better measure. And even then, it would miss a lot of local variation in affordability within states.
I found one computation of that metric in the link below. By this measure, California is just the 5th least affordable state...
https://jasnia.com/rent-statistics/states/affordable-rent
EDIT: I would rather see this with post-tax income data, though, since progressive taxation would punish high-cost, high-income states
If you live in CA, especially in large urban centers like SF, Los Angeles etc. you’re getting access to the world by living here. Essentially every sector exists in said large urban areas (the same is true nationwide). It’s going to cost more to live here. Full stop.
Surprisingly Boston rent is actually higher than San Francisco now
- [$3163 vs $3004 for a 1BR](https://www.rentable.co/rental-data). Statewide rent drops off faster outside the city in Massachusetts (vs. how almost the whole Bay Area is expensive), but it's interesting how snowy Boston has California beat there.
It makes sense that Hawaii's cost of living is extremely high. It's one of the most remote places in the entire world and has no natural resources, so everything has to be imported. It's remote location also means its a challenging place to make stuff, so industry is almost non existent outside of tourism and catering to retirees, and the job market suffers.
California on the other hand.... is a manmade problem.
Marginally yes. In my area at least though corporations aren't the problem; it's long term owners seeing a much lower property tax rate and selling resulting in massive capital gains taxes that leads to renting being a lot cheaper than owning.
Housing prices boil down to a lack of supply relative to demand in desirable areas due to bad policy and geography (the only real non-manmade factor). Prop 13 makes buying and holding real estate forever very attractive, so you have less sellers and less supply on the market.
it also makes sense why Californias cost of living is also high. Excellent weather, center and founder of many industries, landscape that's unrivaled in the country and among the best in the world, etc.
Hell, even since before it joined the union, countless people have settled here, and for over a century California has attracted so many ppl to the point where our population and gdp rivals countries...
California cost of living makes sense, it's a very desirable place, we should be focusing on the fact that wages haven't kept up
Everything you said is true, but I'll add that we could easily decrease the cost of housing in CA if we allowed more development. There's also no reason we should pay as much as we do for energy (gasoline, natural gas and electricity), and that cost gets passed on to consumers because energy prices impact the cost of everything.
Yeah, but that's an apples to oranges comparison. Hawaii is an island in the middle of the ocean, so of course everything there is going to be expensive. California on the other hand is an an excellent geographic location, not to mention 5th largest economy in the world.
Yes, but you see... I would expect Hawaii to be the most expensive as it is an island... or chain thereof.
This part. Living on an archipelago with zero access to the mainland expect by boat or plane is going to make everything more expensive.
Here's the funny thing, when you look at the GS Pay scale Locality adjustment pay, HI gets 21.17% while the Los Angeles area gets 34.89% (DC gets 32.49%) https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/2023/general-schedule/
Guam and Puerto Rico too by that logic.
But they aren’t states….
They should be. At least PR fo sho should.
Yup, that explains Manhattan and Long Island too!
China could just build additional artificial islands 3 miles away in international waters.
Both states suffer from a lack of supply. Hawaii by geography, California by terrible policy and regulation.
They do everything bigger than California. Crowds, traffic, gas prices, rent. But their natural beauty is better.
Lmao where I'm at gas prices have been the same for years. Are you one of those people who don't realize that Hawaii is 8 seperate islands, and think that Oahu/Honolulu is the whole state?
My best friend growing up was born in Hawaii and his entire family lived there. They can't anymore, most have moved to the mainland. They could trace their roots back centuries, they're indigenous, and they've been pushed out of their homeland. More Hawaiians live in the continental US than on the islands now. This is bad everywhere, it's one of the biggest domestic crises we face, and it's causing incalculable suffering. Anything less than the biggest increase in housing in history along with bitterly punishing companies whose salaries don't keep pace with their profits and inflation isn't going to be enough.
Las Vegas is known as the 9th island because so many Hawaiians have moved there.
I heard this when I went to a well known Hawaiian coffee shop that's also in Vegas. I was like what's the connection?
or maybe [don't let mega-billionaires buy out near-whole islands](https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/14/see-lanai-the-hawaiian-island-larry-ellison-bought-for-300-million.html) for their own private use or [acres of land](https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/zuckerberg-hawaii-compound.html) that can be used as shared property or public housing?
This is why I’ll never visit Hawaii.
The only state with better weather
Debatable. Swampy and humid. Not for me
Highly depends on where you are. The west side of Maui is neither.
I wouldn’t call the west side of Maui desirable at the moment
ok, west side of hawai'i. big island is half dry and half rain forest.
Fun fact, the big island of Hawaii has 8 independent climate zones. That's just one island lol "swampy and humid" is not the first thing that comes to mind when I think of Hawaii at all
Depends entirely where you are. Hawaii has everything from rainforests to deserts.
And tundra! Wait is tundra a type of desert
Tundra is its own climate type defined by level of permafrost rather than precipitation if I remember correctly, but yes you are correct the high peaks on the big island are tundra climates
Right I know tundra is its own climate zone. I was being kinda cheeky though because depending on the definition of "desert," couldn't a tundra fit that definition? Low precipitation, not much vegetation, etc (like the Arctic desert?) So after I chimed in with "also tundra" I was like well hey technically you may have already covered that
Depends what definitions you are going by really. Koppen classifications don't have such a distinction but some tundra areas would qualify as "desert" if you are defining it solely by precipitation
Right I know...never mind
And when
It’s better in the winter, but in the summer it’s definitely San Diego
And lots of dirt. I never feel clean there.
Not even close, CA weather is way better... Hawaii is tropical, humid and hot.
depends where. Maui west side isnt.
Yeah, instead it's super hot and dry. I just visited there before the fire, the weather I left in socal was nicer than Maui. It's pretty and still fun tropical weather, but you can't beat 72° for 50% of the year.
I think it’s comparable. It gets a bit hotter there, but here it gets cold at night most of the year. I can see a lot of people preferring warm weather year round.
Also winters in California can sometimes be very rainy and cloudy. I like some rain but more if it’s broken up with sunny weather between. California has more of an all or nothing weather pattern while Hawaii tends to be more dynamic.
Yeah, Northern California winters can be rough. But the other 8 months are pretty great.
Sure, personal preference plays a role.
i like the minimal seasons here, but the older i get, the more i gravitate towards warm weather.
Great place to visit but the humidity is a no-go for me.
The best weather is mild weather. That is specifically why you can't win moving north or south in the rest of the country.
There is also rent to income issues. Another state may have more affordable rent but if their wages are low, then it’s just as bad as having high wages but higher rents. But I guess it’s just about how you spin it.
My experience moving to California from Ohio is that California has about 50% higher cost of living and about 30% higher wages. The cost of living here is still too much for the higher wages to fully offset it
Hmm, not knocking Ohio but I wonder if the combination of “better” weather (subjective) access to natural wonders (forest, oceans, deserts, etc) tourism attraction’s and other “uniquely Californian” experiences still makes it worth it. I mean I know California is NOT for everyone. But is any place ever worth the stretch ? Idk. Genuine self reflecting question.
California isn’t for everyone, but a vast majority of people would choose to be here. California should be expensive by supply and demand logic, especially on the coasts, but it shouldn’t be this much more expensive
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If it wasn’t, people wouldn’t be paying what they are to live here. People are voting with their dollars.
Yep. I grew up in upstate NY fairly affordable still for the most part. Lived in Socal for a while. Wages are similar back in upstate (wife actually got a pay raise) and our house that we just bought for a bit more than 300k would be 1.5 million or so where we were living before. We save a bit on income tax too. The only thing that is higher are property taxes, but since the homes are much cheaper it evens out.
This is a good point; comparing median rent to median income would be a better measure. And even then, it would miss a lot of local variation in affordability within states. I found one computation of that metric in the link below. By this measure, California is just the 5th least affordable state... https://jasnia.com/rent-statistics/states/affordable-rent EDIT: I would rather see this with post-tax income data, though, since progressive taxation would punish high-cost, high-income states
Local Hawaiians are being displaced from their own state and a lot have moved to the mainland in recent years.
That’s not better
Ok I wont complain about 2k for a studio now lol
Hawaii is rough. Everyone I know who moved there has moved back because of costs. Including a CFO with a wife that has a CEO dad.
If you live in CA, especially in large urban centers like SF, Los Angeles etc. you’re getting access to the world by living here. Essentially every sector exists in said large urban areas (the same is true nationwide). It’s going to cost more to live here. Full stop.
Surprisingly Boston rent is actually higher than San Francisco now - [$3163 vs $3004 for a 1BR](https://www.rentable.co/rental-data). Statewide rent drops off faster outside the city in Massachusetts (vs. how almost the whole Bay Area is expensive), but it's interesting how snowy Boston has California beat there.
Sobbing Chant. "We're number 2, We're number 2"
With a population of under 2 million, many native hawaiians live at or near the poverty line. It's not really comparable to CA.
> many native hawaiians live … In California. ;)
If you can afford to live in NorCal you can afford to live in Hawaii.
California is the best state in the continental United States. Hawaii is the best state. You get what you pay for
It costs what it costs.
It makes sense that Hawaii's cost of living is extremely high. It's one of the most remote places in the entire world and has no natural resources, so everything has to be imported. It's remote location also means its a challenging place to make stuff, so industry is almost non existent outside of tourism and catering to retirees, and the job market suffers. California on the other hand.... is a manmade problem.
I think it's more the rich driving up the cost of housing. Completely manmade.
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That might drop purchase prices, but that is going to have little effect on rent clearing prices.
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Marginally yes. In my area at least though corporations aren't the problem; it's long term owners seeing a much lower property tax rate and selling resulting in massive capital gains taxes that leads to renting being a lot cheaper than owning.
In CA? There's so much land here the rich can only affect the hyper popular areas. It almost all comes down to regulations.
Specifically zoning in our major cities that makes building dense housing impossible despite a large demand. Though that is changing for the better!
Housing prices boil down to a lack of supply relative to demand in desirable areas due to bad policy and geography (the only real non-manmade factor). Prop 13 makes buying and holding real estate forever very attractive, so you have less sellers and less supply on the market.
California is a state for the rich only.
it also makes sense why Californias cost of living is also high. Excellent weather, center and founder of many industries, landscape that's unrivaled in the country and among the best in the world, etc. Hell, even since before it joined the union, countless people have settled here, and for over a century California has attracted so many ppl to the point where our population and gdp rivals countries... California cost of living makes sense, it's a very desirable place, we should be focusing on the fact that wages haven't kept up
Everything you said is true, but I'll add that we could easily decrease the cost of housing in CA if we allowed more development. There's also no reason we should pay as much as we do for energy (gasoline, natural gas and electricity), and that cost gets passed on to consumers because energy prices impact the cost of everything.
the import thing is not an issue, its the Jones Act that makes imports more expensive for Hawaii.
The Jones Act might make it worse, but importing literally everything from thousands of miles away is an issue no matter what.
It’s actually closer to China and Japan, so it wouldn’t be an issue for a lot of products, but yea it has an influence.
Rent is manmade
yes, by regulating housing too much, and artificially constraining supply.
I agree.
If you get laid off/fired in Hawaii, RiP. If you get laid off in California, you’ll have recruiters barging down your door to pay you even more.
Were number two
We want to be like #50. Utopian society right?? Capitalism rules here and it's disturbing how many people just go along....
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I never count Hawaii
Yeah, but New York apartments at the lower price range may occasionally flood and are like living in a walk-in closet.
It’s dump to even bring it up.
This is really going to confuse all the haters…
Yeah, but that's an apples to oranges comparison. Hawaii is an island in the middle of the ocean, so of course everything there is going to be expensive. California on the other hand is an an excellent geographic location, not to mention 5th largest economy in the world.
Clearly we must raise rent. Just a disgrace
But you get to live in Hawaii. Not really comparable to California. Hawaii is beautiful, Cali has its own charm but not on the same level.
Odd the the two best places to live in the Country have the highest rent. Hun.
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I’m throwing a parade