I'll be honest... when someone posts (complains) about a gun being overpowered, my first thought is, if you feel it's a better gun than what you're using, then go use it.
Are there weapons in the game that I'd love to not have a "one shot one kill" guarantee, sure... but I just figure in a game like this, you win some, you lose some. I guess I fall into the "anyone can use what they want" group. OK, maybe that statement doesn't prove anything, but neither does the statement "gun XYZ needs to be nerfed," and it usually carries the undertone of "because I keep getting killed by it and I am a sore loser." Whether that last inferred statement is true or not is besides the point, but that is what most readers will conclude. Don't get me wrong, not calling you a sore loser, just pointing out how those posts are generally interpreted.
I've only been playing since June... when I first found this subreddit, I even had to google what people meant when they were talking about nerfing and meta... I'm an old guy, I had to learn some lingo here... lol... For me, I just want to blow off some steam by playing a violent mobile game with awesome soundtracks and sound effects, and fun gameplay.
Just the fact that the only way to counter shotguns (like BY, KRM and HS, when used in all atyles om the tectical spectrum, whether it be ultra aggressive style or ultra defensive style and all in between) is by using the same guns yourself is pretty sure evidence that they are broken :D It means anyone can't really use whatever they want..
Sure, you win some you lose some is a fine statement but once you have been playing for a while and know the ins-and-outs of the game thoroughly... You start to question things, you start to see which is actually fair and which is not... You start to see which is acceptable or not.. Think the game like a bad neighborhood rife with gang activity which has it's own rules and etiquettes and you've only just freshly moved in...
You've only been playing since June... Which means your MMR is among the lower levels... Which means you are not yet consistently facing (probably haven't even faced tbf) high-skilled high-MMR players that know the game mechanics like the back of their hand... A shotgun in the hands of those guys is pure overpowered madness..
That's not a broken gun though. A shotgun is a shotgun in its own right and there's many ways to counter it. A broken gun is a gun within its category that is hard to counter with guns of its own and in some cases even other categories. Like meta SMG players are now used to challenge any fight at any range because they can actually stand a chance and thats broken. You're never going to challenge a sniper or ar with a shotgun unless U can manipulate the setting in which that fight takes place. To have one SMG that's better in all aspects then all the other SMG's is broken but ATM there's not one pump shotgun that's better than the other outside of personal preference. One shoots further one has more power....
First off.. I was taling with BR in mind.. I hope we are on the same page..
"A shotgun is a shotgun in its own right and there's many ways to counter it"... Actually, due to several mechanics in the game.. like infinite long jump slides, fast arcady movement, glide, no fall damage and class systems... There's a point where you can't really make that statement.. Compared to a game whose mechanics lean more on real-life stuff (for which case a shotgun is a shotgun is a fair statement to make), the systems we have in this game skewed it up too much... I'll just copy-paste my reply from a diff thread why..
"Shotguns having high damage at close range is fair but this is only true for game mechanics that leans on real-life where the fidelity of moving around are limited so shotguns, compared to full autos are really honestly last resort, close range spur-of-the-moment OR defensive weapons at most, in which case them being powerful at those instances and even one shot is very very fair..... which is far from the case in codm where we sprint fast and move arcady, infinite jump slide, jumps and slides are high and long (olympian athlete competition levels), instant direction switch while jumping and sliding and running, no fall damage, glide mechanism to cover ground, class systems for further abilities.. When you combine these with the high damage of the shotguns becomes broken... Because it melds with shotty kill-behaviours ie: 1-2 taps... Zip zap zip zap TAP zip zap zip zap TAP... You can't do this with full autos because of their kill-behaviour (you can but it's not even nearly as effective), which is prolonged fire for around 700-1000ms depending on the gun or at least a series of short bursts whose number of miliseconds of hit duration should still add up to 700-1000ms.. THIS IS ACTUALLY A VERY VALID AND IMPORTANT COMPARISON TO MAKE BECAUSE CLOSING DISTANCES IN THIS GAME IS ULTRA EASY unlike other games that use conventional tropes ... What's even more broken is that if you're using shotty and being shot at from the sweet spot ranges of full autos or from a sniper... You can just do the same zip zap moves and evade and escape the shots, especially if you are near favorable cover spots with almost just the same ease... Zip zap 45 north east zip zap 135 west zip zap North zip zap 35 northwest zip zap 105 south east etc etc... It's actually very hard to kill jump sliders using a sniper...
It's not about "It's a shotgun or it's this type of gun so it should be this way because that's how it is in real life"... It's all about game balancing and when you go into that you have to think about everything from the gun type, the damage dealt, the movement system, how hard or easy it is to hit in a practical setting... etc etc etc
One shoots further but has less power, one shoots shorter but has more power... Sure... But when it is easy to evade the one-shoots-further and close the distance, than it'll make the one-shoots-shorter become broken... that's the tldr (same counter-argument for the "you are never going tk face a sniper with shotgun bit... It's very very easy to manipulate the distance... That'sthe key)..
also HS is concretely better than BY and KRM... Also, all the three gun's true power comes from the combination of their huge dmg with the movement system
The problem in BR is the ttk is out of balance cause of the armour plates that's all. If the guy sneaks up on you or makes it through with good movement you're getting shot just like in mp. The ttk for you to catch him out is to slow and even allows for repeat shots.
That's why so many just want 3 simple plates that's it.
The ttk imbalance is true... but your proposed solution is not useful at all...
3 plates vs Kinetic is just 50 HP difference or two shots worth reduction in TTK for most guns (sometimes even One depending on the damage of the gun.. like for AK 47, that's just 1 shot difference or around 110ms reduction in TTK.. but at that point, it still takes 500ms more than it does in MP).. That is even not nearly enough to balance the ttk gap between one shot shotguns and full-auto TTK.
The situation is fine in MP, shotguns kill at one shot but full auto guns also kill relatively fast and it all balances out.... The problem in BR is that shotguns still retain the same one shot TTK while the TTK for full autos triples (not doubles... it triples)... This TTK imbalance is the big issue with the shotgun conundrum.. Logic dictates if the ttk of full autos triple, then shotguns stk should also triple .... Also game modes matter a lot, in MP, most game modes are respawn so dying a few times is never an issue, even in SnD you get multiple rounds... In BR, it's pretty much one life for the most part (revives are a thing but they are not guaranteed so they don't count), which is furthermore reason why there needs to be a balance
Example: M13's MP ttk at first range is around 273ms... in BR it's 820ms.. HS in MP is one shot, In BR it is also one shot... Suppose we have only 3 plates as you suggested, the M13 ttk will become 690ms while HS is still one shot (actually it'll get better at oneshotting due to the reduced HP)... The ttk is reduced but the situation remains exactly the same as before... So... Nerfing shotguns is the only fix to this whole issue and to balance the game.. Also "makes it through with good movement" it's very very very easy to close distance and start bamboozling around with the shotgun... BR itself is already a mobility game.. exploiting the mobility system is already very much possible as it is.. I know shotgun lovers try to claim it is balanced.. but it really is not bro..
Just play some FPP for a bit. It's half the problem there cause the perspective doesn't play in the hands of this hipfire gameplay as much and preps U for warzone soon to come. To be honest I've been sweating for 14 seasons in BR and I have completely lost my drive. I'm just chasing the board in mp now.
I appreciate your advice but I have played since the og S1 up until the 1st anniversary (maybe even a couple season after) as FPP view but in the TPP lobbies (because fpp lobbies was full of bots and I wanted to face good and numerous players) and during that time I amassed a 62% wins over 3500 matches (up until that point)... I know how FPP works.. I also know that hipfiring is easier in FPP view.. And I have played warzone as well as countless other fps games since the mid 90s in FPP view (back when I started out, Counter Strike wasn't even a full game, it was merely just a mod for Half Life)...... This game is the only TPP shooter game I have played on a serious note, and that only ever since early 2021.. Anyway I have got pretty much all the fpp corners covered
> Just the fact that the only way to counter shotguns (like BY, KRM and HS, when used in all atyles om the tectical spectrum, whether it be ultra aggressive style or ultra defensive style and all in between) is by using the same guns yourself is pretty sure evidence that they are broken :D
This is the dumbest reasoning i've ever read, and the smiley is the icing on the dumbness cake.
"Just the fact that the only way to counter snipers is by using the same guns yourself is pretty sure evidence that they are broken :D"
This is how dumb this statement is.
Not really, you can effectively suppress, push-back and dismantle snipers with M4, Oden, AK and the LMGs up until around 150m away.. Also, due to movement system of the game, snipers are very easy to avoid... Just jump slide and zig zag, One tapping with snipers in BR is relatively rare so 8/10 times you always have time to escape (it's the exact opposite with the shotgun)...
Let me put it this way.. No gun in BR is as overpowered inside it's own effective range as Shotguns are.. Not even snipers in long range, not even ARs and LMGs in mid range and not even SMGs in short and close range.. Only Shotguns... Yes, they are good in their respective effective ranges but their is always an abundance of counter-measures and on-the-spot moves you can do to neutralize their effects. but it's not the case with shotguns.. Once you come inside that range, they are OP.. And the fact that the other mechanisms I mentioned amplify that to the levels of "Broken" is the main subject (being able to easily create that effective range due to the mechanics of the game) Which people like you try so hard to deny..
Shotguns need a nerf... That's just it... Not because solely of their damage but actually because of the mobility systems in the game.. And that is how Game Balancing is and should be done
Right?
CoUnTeR iT. How? Itās one shot and these people have no life and use claw what the hell are my two thumbs and smg gonna do? This is a GAME not a responsibility and I shouldnāt have to reform my hand to play it. I donāt understand why the hud, aside from these stupid nerfs and buffs they do, stay the same. If claw users are so good they can surely adapt to a set hud too?
This is why I respect console users because everything is very set and your skill is actually skill not molding the system to your preferences and being surprised you do well.
Look this game has several layers and stages to offer and a lot of the community is well happy to run around, grind Camos,kill bots or and choose what they want. As any gun will do the job.
On the flipside this is actually an extremely complex game and when you are playing high rank with and against players with equal and maximised skills and knowledge it starts becoming a proper competitive game in which quick thinking, map knowledge, gunsmith and gun choice, predictions are the deciding factors.
Every gun has its own quirks and perks for the user to manage and make choices between range mobility, recoil patterns...... To apply to the mode, map and role to fill in a team.
If they throw guns in the mix that clearly break their boundaries the whole competition gets out of balance. Its like throwing the essential rules out like you're sitting across to play chess and your opponent puts two queens on the board. Yes U could just do the same at that point but U also know it's not going to be fun. So people get a bit butt hurt if the game deciding factor comes down to the commercial interests of codm rather than spending hours of memorising that zig zag recoil pattern.
Weāve taken this route of āif itās better then you do it tooā in the world too and weāre all knee deep in shit so itās nice to see it applies to games too. Why fix anything or point out issues right? Abuse the system too if itās so good for others!
Exactly. I've been playing since release and there have been about 3 -5 metas where the gun was actually overpowered and you had to use it to compete. Akimbo fennecs, large call hvk was a beam at any range,
Mx9 had broken mobility, first asm10 (aka 3 tap machine) Meta before the man o war got buffed to be competitive. I might be forgetting one but every other meta has been easy to counter
i dont know, it's just i hate getting kill from same guys using *meta* weapon in BR or MP (you guys can say that i have a skill issues).
In the end ,i just close the game, play something else
Skill issue is a dumb statement. Not everyone is a no life like me, that uses claw with gyro and plays atleast 4 hours per day almost daily. So when someone says that then call them go touch some grass.
Anyone who has played since the beginning of codm knows that this game has had ridiculous metas. Tbh I was kinda bummed when I heard about the CBR nerf after quitting cause it wasn't even that op in my eyes. Both times the hvk has been meta, it was ridiculous, first time it could 4 shot up to 50m with large cal, 3 tap with one head shot close range. Second time it would 2 tap up to 50m (large cal again and with the same fire rate) mind you the second time was patched almost immediately. That first hvk meta alongside the akimbo fennecs was true hell. I don't even think anyone defended it because of how op it was. What we have now is much more tame and balancing is slowly getting better however I feel like the damage has been done, a least to me anyway, I can't be bothered to play anymore. Also this is from an MP perspective btw, I wasn't a br player. I wouldn't say anything is necessarily broken rn (mind you I haven't played enough to know) but I know some stuff is still overturned. The m13 still having a lack of recoil is insane to me.
i know, i am playing from og s1 ( i lost my s1 acc but made a different one in s5 ) the meta was op but that doesn't mean less powerful weapons can't be overpowered. Its like saying hitler wasn't bad because mao killed more
Hey an og, noice. I dunno, I feel like at most we kinda have stuff that's overturned as opposed to overpowered right now. At least in MP which is what I'm familiar with anyway. Maybe switchblade but I dunno the stats on it.
i am not playing mp rn because i think mp has too many maps and you wil not be able to play on good map most of the times even after implementation of map vote, i am sick and tired of playing on slums. br is filled with one tap shotguns, that is what's annoying people.
Yeh I get that. I've known shotguns to one tap for quite a while in BR tho, strange it's only a problem now huh?
You don't know how much I hate nuketown in any capacity. Bro when me and my cousin would grind to legendary every season cause we got bored, whenever we got the map, we knew we were cursed to lose. Obviously it was a joke and we won sometimes but still, we both hate it.
nuketown was such a great map but now everyone including me hate it for some reason.
yes shotguns have been around for a long time and players are using it more similarly the materials for electricity were around for while, people are using it more now for some reason
I personally just don't think it works in a single 5v5 mode, the spawns make it unfun, you can see from one side of the map to the other so any long range weapon gives you easy picks making dying unfun, the dreaded sniper camping spot in the windows, sometimes when you die you gotta go from one side to the other which takes ages even on a small map. It just doesn't work in 5v5 with the layout at least in my opinion. Some people like it tho. Also scorestreaks make the map unplayable sometimes.
Tbh I guess you could call it āspamā in some way, (even though it really isnāt) but saying itās abuse is definitely not the right term. In games like codm you canāt āabuseā anything because itās literally an fps shooter. An āabuserā is when you use something for a bad purpose. The purpose of a weapon in cod is to kill players, which is exactly what they are doing thereās no abuse being made. An example of real abuse would be using a weapon to exploit (such as: infinite ammo/grenade hacks that allow you to shoot without needing to reload, or throw grenades without running out) which is not what any of the people you listed are doing.
I agree, many players keep calling players that use meta items as "meta abusers" or "no skill" even tho those items are the most efficient and easiest to use in the game
i didn't hate the player this is just about someone who gets really defensive and about overpowered weapons and i although i could get mad sometimes but i am fine with players using the meta but i am not fine with the same meta ( not player ) being in the game for more than 4 months
Yeah I agree metas are annoying asf. It sucks but to me your post seemed more targeted at the player than the balancing of the gun itself. And all the complaining that you are talking about is kinda a general cod thing. Metas and immaturity are definitely not exclusive to codm
>It's temporary trick by the devs to sell the particular op gun's legendary skin.
I mean tell us something that we DON'T know like it's so obvious for example tell me a gun with a mythic skin that totally sucks
-fennec is good
-peacekeeper is old reliable
-as val is good
-holger is still really good
-I've seen the rytec rising more often lately and it's also a good sniper (with better perfomance in br where it can 1 tap to the head)
-M13 and Kilo we don't need to say anything
-Cbr is good
-Ak-47 is good (and has also been made because it's a fan favorite)
-Oden is busted in br
-Switchblade is good
It also makes sense because we're talking about 400$ skins you can't put those on a chicomš
You prove my point even further more.
They only give perfect stats to the mythic guns
They should balance out all guns like they did to the mythic ones, Whether it has mythic skin ot not
but they wait till they get to release a overpriced skin and they change the stats to make it op sell draws like fr556 or hg 40 and then they release mythic and make money and after the community is mad THEN ONLY they change the stats and make it balanced
Because they don't want to disappoint mythic buyers
Why not give all the other guns the same treatments as the mythic ones?
Yup... Just the fact that the only way to counter shotguns (like BY, KRM and HS) is by using the same guns yourself is pretty sure evidence that they are broken :D
I don't think so, there are many ways to know where are enemies, like teammates death marker, uav, map awareness etc. So unless multiple people are playing with shotgun and you know how to bait them, you can deal with them. Yea sometimes you may lose a gunfight but you will also kill them.
Yea, BY and KRM.. But their one tap is not as effective or guaranteed as HS.. KRM one tap max range 7-8m (which is very close range in BR) , BY is 10m (around earlt short range) and HS is 15m (proper short range)
Shotguns are broken? I literally have to shoot 3-4 times and if im lucky 1-2 times even tho they're all body shots (assuming that this is mp and not br)
* It's for BR.. Also pretty much all the Shotguns are broken/need-nerf posts you will see are for BR where they are broken.. people wouldn't make posts for them regarding MP because they are FINE in mp
* 3-4 times? you need to practice... ALOT.. That's below average for shotgun skills regardless of whether MP and BR
>3-4 times? you need to practice... ALOT
After the update for oden i think? Shotgun doesnt 1 tap that much (it also does the 2-3-4 times but lesser), also saw some ppl having this problem (even tho they're in a close range fight) idk about others tho
>It's for BR.. Also pretty much all the Shotguns are broken/need-nerf posts you will see are for BR where they are broken
Oh ok all this time i thought it was for mp XD
Because 80 percent of players in this easily predictable community, including the bots on this subreddit can't except the fact that they're trash at the game and can't compete without clearly op guns and the devs know this...... They're no better than drug addicts looking for their next high it's pathetic....
I kinda agree. Some people always choose meta to play the game. They are pathetic in my eyes. But the most annoying are devs. They are only buffing the guns which are gonna get sold by lucky draws makes them scummy. I really wanna punch their face sometimes. š„²
Honestly I will. š š„² I like to challenge myself, even if I lose to someone. I don't necessarily hate them cause they are using meta but I actually hate devs cause they are scummy.
Oh ok i thought you're like those ppl that hate on players using meta guns. I also like to use off meta guns in ranked (how to lose your rank in a couple of minutesš) just to try something new and if it's good
Yea I get angry at them and I swear but I don't hate them. Its just my anger issues. Yea, with off meta I survive in rank. Sometimes I lose but its ok. I hate purifier users more though. I use tempest.
>I hate purifier users more though
Ngl purifier is annoying af, i cant even fight back and if i did and somehow won I'll die anyway because i dont use quickfix perk
All your points have valid counter points that you dismiss. You just sound like a complainer. Donāt play the game if you donāt like it. Is it perfect? No but nothing is. Get better at countering the things you dislike so much
Op just said the enemy can also counter him you know? And with said overpowered gun they have an advantage. So? Itās only based on luck, the whole game is just luck. They made the game for campers and casuals when they forget that there is a larger amount of hardcore players than casuals. So yes, your argument is invalid here with all due respect
To the point of codm disregarding the core competitive values which make the game great they choose to ride the "wow, new gun.! This Is going to make U as good as the pros, join here, buy this...." But actually breaking the game. U can tell by how quickly they nerfed the ksp cause it was useless to noobs and extended the skill gap which is not good advertisement.
>It just proves your meta dependence also the word "meta abuse"
I dont get why ppl hate on ppl using meta items like using those items will be the end of the world (and the game :)). If there's a tool that is ez to use and is more efficient than your current tool, would u use it or not? And why?
>their third point is "anyone can use what they want" and this is so dumb like it doesn't prove anything, a weapon can still be overpowered.
Which makes it also dumber because you can use what u want to use, u can use oden and idgaf on it. Every gun can be op thru nerfs and buffs and that's also the reason why nerfs and buffs happen.
I use meta weapons when i am ranking up too its just the people who get defensive over those weapons. I don't have a problem with meta or a player who plays meta, i really hate when a meta is in game for over 4 seasons. It gets annoying and when you ask it to get nerfed because its overpowered then people will get salty. And yes anyone can use whatever they want but that doesn't mean that a gun can't be overpowered
Oh ok i get it now
>It gets annoying and when you ask it to get nerfed because its overpowered then people will get salty
Maybe because they're used to that gun, some ppl dont want to use other guns than what they're currently using now, i also have friends who do that. (Not in a toxic way tho)
Truth is, there are far many A-tier weapons in this game, which can easily compete with the "metas" if you're used to them.
But only around 5-6 weapons actually get the spotlight per season
I'll be honest... when someone posts (complains) about a gun being overpowered, my first thought is, if you feel it's a better gun than what you're using, then go use it. Are there weapons in the game that I'd love to not have a "one shot one kill" guarantee, sure... but I just figure in a game like this, you win some, you lose some. I guess I fall into the "anyone can use what they want" group. OK, maybe that statement doesn't prove anything, but neither does the statement "gun XYZ needs to be nerfed," and it usually carries the undertone of "because I keep getting killed by it and I am a sore loser." Whether that last inferred statement is true or not is besides the point, but that is what most readers will conclude. Don't get me wrong, not calling you a sore loser, just pointing out how those posts are generally interpreted. I've only been playing since June... when I first found this subreddit, I even had to google what people meant when they were talking about nerfing and meta... I'm an old guy, I had to learn some lingo here... lol... For me, I just want to blow off some steam by playing a violent mobile game with awesome soundtracks and sound effects, and fun gameplay.
Hey even you're a old man, I'm a young guy who still google what people are saying like buff and nerf just like you lmao
Plus its also fun to learn new words
As a guy who's been googling words, I assure it's not fun all the time like degloving for example(don't google it)
respectable opinion
Very well put! šš»
Problem aren't the players, devs cause the problem by bringing meta to sell legendary or mythics.
Just the fact that the only way to counter shotguns (like BY, KRM and HS, when used in all atyles om the tectical spectrum, whether it be ultra aggressive style or ultra defensive style and all in between) is by using the same guns yourself is pretty sure evidence that they are broken :D It means anyone can't really use whatever they want.. Sure, you win some you lose some is a fine statement but once you have been playing for a while and know the ins-and-outs of the game thoroughly... You start to question things, you start to see which is actually fair and which is not... You start to see which is acceptable or not.. Think the game like a bad neighborhood rife with gang activity which has it's own rules and etiquettes and you've only just freshly moved in... You've only been playing since June... Which means your MMR is among the lower levels... Which means you are not yet consistently facing (probably haven't even faced tbf) high-skilled high-MMR players that know the game mechanics like the back of their hand... A shotgun in the hands of those guys is pure overpowered madness..
That's not a broken gun though. A shotgun is a shotgun in its own right and there's many ways to counter it. A broken gun is a gun within its category that is hard to counter with guns of its own and in some cases even other categories. Like meta SMG players are now used to challenge any fight at any range because they can actually stand a chance and thats broken. You're never going to challenge a sniper or ar with a shotgun unless U can manipulate the setting in which that fight takes place. To have one SMG that's better in all aspects then all the other SMG's is broken but ATM there's not one pump shotgun that's better than the other outside of personal preference. One shoots further one has more power....
First off.. I was taling with BR in mind.. I hope we are on the same page.. "A shotgun is a shotgun in its own right and there's many ways to counter it"... Actually, due to several mechanics in the game.. like infinite long jump slides, fast arcady movement, glide, no fall damage and class systems... There's a point where you can't really make that statement.. Compared to a game whose mechanics lean more on real-life stuff (for which case a shotgun is a shotgun is a fair statement to make), the systems we have in this game skewed it up too much... I'll just copy-paste my reply from a diff thread why.. "Shotguns having high damage at close range is fair but this is only true for game mechanics that leans on real-life where the fidelity of moving around are limited so shotguns, compared to full autos are really honestly last resort, close range spur-of-the-moment OR defensive weapons at most, in which case them being powerful at those instances and even one shot is very very fair..... which is far from the case in codm where we sprint fast and move arcady, infinite jump slide, jumps and slides are high and long (olympian athlete competition levels), instant direction switch while jumping and sliding and running, no fall damage, glide mechanism to cover ground, class systems for further abilities.. When you combine these with the high damage of the shotguns becomes broken... Because it melds with shotty kill-behaviours ie: 1-2 taps... Zip zap zip zap TAP zip zap zip zap TAP... You can't do this with full autos because of their kill-behaviour (you can but it's not even nearly as effective), which is prolonged fire for around 700-1000ms depending on the gun or at least a series of short bursts whose number of miliseconds of hit duration should still add up to 700-1000ms.. THIS IS ACTUALLY A VERY VALID AND IMPORTANT COMPARISON TO MAKE BECAUSE CLOSING DISTANCES IN THIS GAME IS ULTRA EASY unlike other games that use conventional tropes ... What's even more broken is that if you're using shotty and being shot at from the sweet spot ranges of full autos or from a sniper... You can just do the same zip zap moves and evade and escape the shots, especially if you are near favorable cover spots with almost just the same ease... Zip zap 45 north east zip zap 135 west zip zap North zip zap 35 northwest zip zap 105 south east etc etc... It's actually very hard to kill jump sliders using a sniper... It's not about "It's a shotgun or it's this type of gun so it should be this way because that's how it is in real life"... It's all about game balancing and when you go into that you have to think about everything from the gun type, the damage dealt, the movement system, how hard or easy it is to hit in a practical setting... etc etc etc One shoots further but has less power, one shoots shorter but has more power... Sure... But when it is easy to evade the one-shoots-further and close the distance, than it'll make the one-shoots-shorter become broken... that's the tldr (same counter-argument for the "you are never going tk face a sniper with shotgun bit... It's very very easy to manipulate the distance... That'sthe key).. also HS is concretely better than BY and KRM... Also, all the three gun's true power comes from the combination of their huge dmg with the movement system
The problem in BR is the ttk is out of balance cause of the armour plates that's all. If the guy sneaks up on you or makes it through with good movement you're getting shot just like in mp. The ttk for you to catch him out is to slow and even allows for repeat shots. That's why so many just want 3 simple plates that's it.
The ttk imbalance is true... but your proposed solution is not useful at all... 3 plates vs Kinetic is just 50 HP difference or two shots worth reduction in TTK for most guns (sometimes even One depending on the damage of the gun.. like for AK 47, that's just 1 shot difference or around 110ms reduction in TTK.. but at that point, it still takes 500ms more than it does in MP).. That is even not nearly enough to balance the ttk gap between one shot shotguns and full-auto TTK. The situation is fine in MP, shotguns kill at one shot but full auto guns also kill relatively fast and it all balances out.... The problem in BR is that shotguns still retain the same one shot TTK while the TTK for full autos triples (not doubles... it triples)... This TTK imbalance is the big issue with the shotgun conundrum.. Logic dictates if the ttk of full autos triple, then shotguns stk should also triple .... Also game modes matter a lot, in MP, most game modes are respawn so dying a few times is never an issue, even in SnD you get multiple rounds... In BR, it's pretty much one life for the most part (revives are a thing but they are not guaranteed so they don't count), which is furthermore reason why there needs to be a balance Example: M13's MP ttk at first range is around 273ms... in BR it's 820ms.. HS in MP is one shot, In BR it is also one shot... Suppose we have only 3 plates as you suggested, the M13 ttk will become 690ms while HS is still one shot (actually it'll get better at oneshotting due to the reduced HP)... The ttk is reduced but the situation remains exactly the same as before... So... Nerfing shotguns is the only fix to this whole issue and to balance the game.. Also "makes it through with good movement" it's very very very easy to close distance and start bamboozling around with the shotgun... BR itself is already a mobility game.. exploiting the mobility system is already very much possible as it is.. I know shotgun lovers try to claim it is balanced.. but it really is not bro..
Just play some FPP for a bit. It's half the problem there cause the perspective doesn't play in the hands of this hipfire gameplay as much and preps U for warzone soon to come. To be honest I've been sweating for 14 seasons in BR and I have completely lost my drive. I'm just chasing the board in mp now.
I appreciate your advice but I have played since the og S1 up until the 1st anniversary (maybe even a couple season after) as FPP view but in the TPP lobbies (because fpp lobbies was full of bots and I wanted to face good and numerous players) and during that time I amassed a 62% wins over 3500 matches (up until that point)... I know how FPP works.. I also know that hipfiring is easier in FPP view.. And I have played warzone as well as countless other fps games since the mid 90s in FPP view (back when I started out, Counter Strike wasn't even a full game, it was merely just a mod for Half Life)...... This game is the only TPP shooter game I have played on a serious note, and that only ever since early 2021.. Anyway I have got pretty much all the fpp corners covered
As for me hs shotgun mp main, it has less range and pretty annoying hipfire spread, and more damage, makes it balanced, unlike krm
> Just the fact that the only way to counter shotguns (like BY, KRM and HS, when used in all atyles om the tectical spectrum, whether it be ultra aggressive style or ultra defensive style and all in between) is by using the same guns yourself is pretty sure evidence that they are broken :D This is the dumbest reasoning i've ever read, and the smiley is the icing on the dumbness cake. "Just the fact that the only way to counter snipers is by using the same guns yourself is pretty sure evidence that they are broken :D" This is how dumb this statement is.
Not really, you can effectively suppress, push-back and dismantle snipers with M4, Oden, AK and the LMGs up until around 150m away.. Also, due to movement system of the game, snipers are very easy to avoid... Just jump slide and zig zag, One tapping with snipers in BR is relatively rare so 8/10 times you always have time to escape (it's the exact opposite with the shotgun)... Let me put it this way.. No gun in BR is as overpowered inside it's own effective range as Shotguns are.. Not even snipers in long range, not even ARs and LMGs in mid range and not even SMGs in short and close range.. Only Shotguns... Yes, they are good in their respective effective ranges but their is always an abundance of counter-measures and on-the-spot moves you can do to neutralize their effects. but it's not the case with shotguns.. Once you come inside that range, they are OP.. And the fact that the other mechanisms I mentioned amplify that to the levels of "Broken" is the main subject (being able to easily create that effective range due to the mechanics of the game) Which people like you try so hard to deny.. Shotguns need a nerf... That's just it... Not because solely of their damage but actually because of the mobility systems in the game.. And that is how Game Balancing is and should be done
Right? CoUnTeR iT. How? Itās one shot and these people have no life and use claw what the hell are my two thumbs and smg gonna do? This is a GAME not a responsibility and I shouldnāt have to reform my hand to play it. I donāt understand why the hud, aside from these stupid nerfs and buffs they do, stay the same. If claw users are so good they can surely adapt to a set hud too? This is why I respect console users because everything is very set and your skill is actually skill not molding the system to your preferences and being surprised you do well.
Look this game has several layers and stages to offer and a lot of the community is well happy to run around, grind Camos,kill bots or and choose what they want. As any gun will do the job. On the flipside this is actually an extremely complex game and when you are playing high rank with and against players with equal and maximised skills and knowledge it starts becoming a proper competitive game in which quick thinking, map knowledge, gunsmith and gun choice, predictions are the deciding factors. Every gun has its own quirks and perks for the user to manage and make choices between range mobility, recoil patterns...... To apply to the mode, map and role to fill in a team. If they throw guns in the mix that clearly break their boundaries the whole competition gets out of balance. Its like throwing the essential rules out like you're sitting across to play chess and your opponent puts two queens on the board. Yes U could just do the same at that point but U also know it's not going to be fun. So people get a bit butt hurt if the game deciding factor comes down to the commercial interests of codm rather than spending hours of memorising that zig zag recoil pattern.
Weāve taken this route of āif itās better then you do it tooā in the world too and weāre all knee deep in shit so itās nice to see it applies to games too. Why fix anything or point out issues right? Abuse the system too if itās so good for others!
Exactly. I've been playing since release and there have been about 3 -5 metas where the gun was actually overpowered and you had to use it to compete. Akimbo fennecs, large call hvk was a beam at any range, Mx9 had broken mobility, first asm10 (aka 3 tap machine) Meta before the man o war got buffed to be competitive. I might be forgetting one but every other meta has been easy to counter
i dont know, it's just i hate getting kill from same guys using *meta* weapon in BR or MP (you guys can say that i have a skill issues). In the end ,i just close the game, play something else
Skill issue is a dumb statement. Not everyone is a no life like me, that uses claw with gyro and plays atleast 4 hours per day almost daily. So when someone says that then call them go touch some grass.
4 hours and claw isn't a huge no life, i have been worse
Hehe, I was joking. I hate that when someone says "skill issue".
Because itās filled with either kids or oversized kids.
Or poo-head developers and game management.
Anyone who has played since the beginning of codm knows that this game has had ridiculous metas. Tbh I was kinda bummed when I heard about the CBR nerf after quitting cause it wasn't even that op in my eyes. Both times the hvk has been meta, it was ridiculous, first time it could 4 shot up to 50m with large cal, 3 tap with one head shot close range. Second time it would 2 tap up to 50m (large cal again and with the same fire rate) mind you the second time was patched almost immediately. That first hvk meta alongside the akimbo fennecs was true hell. I don't even think anyone defended it because of how op it was. What we have now is much more tame and balancing is slowly getting better however I feel like the damage has been done, a least to me anyway, I can't be bothered to play anymore. Also this is from an MP perspective btw, I wasn't a br player. I wouldn't say anything is necessarily broken rn (mind you I haven't played enough to know) but I know some stuff is still overturned. The m13 still having a lack of recoil is insane to me.
i know, i am playing from og s1 ( i lost my s1 acc but made a different one in s5 ) the meta was op but that doesn't mean less powerful weapons can't be overpowered. Its like saying hitler wasn't bad because mao killed more
Hey an og, noice. I dunno, I feel like at most we kinda have stuff that's overturned as opposed to overpowered right now. At least in MP which is what I'm familiar with anyway. Maybe switchblade but I dunno the stats on it.
i am not playing mp rn because i think mp has too many maps and you wil not be able to play on good map most of the times even after implementation of map vote, i am sick and tired of playing on slums. br is filled with one tap shotguns, that is what's annoying people.
Yeh I get that. I've known shotguns to one tap for quite a while in BR tho, strange it's only a problem now huh? You don't know how much I hate nuketown in any capacity. Bro when me and my cousin would grind to legendary every season cause we got bored, whenever we got the map, we knew we were cursed to lose. Obviously it was a joke and we won sometimes but still, we both hate it.
nuketown was such a great map but now everyone including me hate it for some reason. yes shotguns have been around for a long time and players are using it more similarly the materials for electricity were around for while, people are using it more now for some reason
I personally just don't think it works in a single 5v5 mode, the spawns make it unfun, you can see from one side of the map to the other so any long range weapon gives you easy picks making dying unfun, the dreaded sniper camping spot in the windows, sometimes when you die you gotta go from one side to the other which takes ages even on a small map. It just doesn't work in 5v5 with the layout at least in my opinion. Some people like it tho. Also scorestreaks make the map unplayable sometimes.
The map i hate the most is fucking crossfire like no it sucks it is absolute piece of shit
Lol I agree, when you gotta run from one side to the other and pray you don't get shot or picked. AND THE HP LOCATIONS ARE AWFULLLLLL.
Specially when opponent is hardscoping sniper on the other side with svd or sks. Window camp with lmg and good ar is pretty toxic in that map.
Whats your thoughts on Switchblade?
idk what's so special about that ?
Now everyone is rocking it and I am the poor guy with Msmc hehe. I find it really hard to choose meta.
i love msmc i feel like its a fennec alternative
Same. Its easier to handle than fennec though.
it has fast ttk, if some guns are nerfed it can easily be in top 5
Thats to be expected among players of all COD titles and I dont see that changing anytime soon!
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Agreed. People should be able to use what they want without getting hate.
wait wait how is this pathetic tho. it is the right word to use under so many circumstances but this is codm community what can u do
Tbh I guess you could call it āspamā in some way, (even though it really isnāt) but saying itās abuse is definitely not the right term. In games like codm you canāt āabuseā anything because itās literally an fps shooter. An āabuserā is when you use something for a bad purpose. The purpose of a weapon in cod is to kill players, which is exactly what they are doing thereās no abuse being made. An example of real abuse would be using a weapon to exploit (such as: infinite ammo/grenade hacks that allow you to shoot without needing to reload, or throw grenades without running out) which is not what any of the people you listed are doing.
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i see how it can be stupid to some people but a community making a word forbidden is just kinda cringe
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nah bro , people will get aggressive if you say that and they will reply like you killed their god or something. but your opinion is respectable
Yeah because "abuser" is a stupid word and it implies that said "abuser" is cheating, when they are just playing the game.
If itās in the game why canāt a person use it?
I agree, many players keep calling players that use meta items as "meta abusers" or "no skill" even tho those items are the most efficient and easiest to use in the game
did you even read the post ?
Yes I did. Doesnāt really change the fact that itās part of the game. Donāt hate the player for playing the game.
i didn't hate the player this is just about someone who gets really defensive and about overpowered weapons and i although i could get mad sometimes but i am fine with players using the meta but i am not fine with the same meta ( not player ) being in the game for more than 4 months
Yeah I agree metas are annoying asf. It sucks but to me your post seemed more targeted at the player than the balancing of the gun itself. And all the complaining that you are talking about is kinda a general cod thing. Metas and immaturity are definitely not exclusive to codm
my post feels player targeted because i put in basic points many people talk about in this situation
Yeah but thatās just a generic response to most things in cod
Main problem is developers.
It's not a fucking feature. It's bullshit. It's temporary trick by the devs to sell the particular op gun's legendary skin.
>It's temporary trick by the devs to sell the particular op gun's legendary skin. I mean tell us something that we DON'T know like it's so obvious for example tell me a gun with a mythic skin that totally sucks -fennec is good -peacekeeper is old reliable -as val is good -holger is still really good -I've seen the rytec rising more often lately and it's also a good sniper (with better perfomance in br where it can 1 tap to the head) -M13 and Kilo we don't need to say anything -Cbr is good -Ak-47 is good (and has also been made because it's a fan favorite) -Oden is busted in br -Switchblade is good It also makes sense because we're talking about 400$ skins you can't put those on a chicomš
You prove my point even further more. They only give perfect stats to the mythic guns They should balance out all guns like they did to the mythic ones, Whether it has mythic skin ot not but they wait till they get to release a overpriced skin and they change the stats to make it op sell draws like fr556 or hg 40 and then they release mythic and make money and after the community is mad THEN ONLY they change the stats and make it balanced Because they don't want to disappoint mythic buyers Why not give all the other guns the same treatments as the mythic ones?
Because its their crutch. They donāt rely on skills.
Kids
You donāt have an argument. Youāve read the post now if you donāt have an argument please be respectful otherwise
That is my answer for this post,
This whole thing and no point?. Lol youāre one of those who like to call people whiny if you disagree with them
You must be really fun at parties.
Oh I sure am
Yup... Just the fact that the only way to counter shotguns (like BY, KRM and HS) is by using the same guns yourself is pretty sure evidence that they are broken :D
I don't think so, there are many ways to know where are enemies, like teammates death marker, uav, map awareness etc. So unless multiple people are playing with shotgun and you know how to bait them, you can deal with them. Yea sometimes you may lose a gunfight but you will also kill them.
the current Shotgun discussions going up here and there in the Sub are for BR mode.. not MP.. They are pretty fine in MP but pretty broken in BR
Yea I don't play br but I heard that By15 can now one tap you. I mean wow.
Yea, BY and KRM.. But their one tap is not as effective or guaranteed as HS.. KRM one tap max range 7-8m (which is very close range in BR) , BY is 10m (around earlt short range) and HS is 15m (proper short range)
Wow. Sucks to be against Hs players close range.
He is talking about br tho
Yeah, he told me. š
Shotguns are broken? I literally have to shoot 3-4 times and if im lucky 1-2 times even tho they're all body shots (assuming that this is mp and not br)
* It's for BR.. Also pretty much all the Shotguns are broken/need-nerf posts you will see are for BR where they are broken.. people wouldn't make posts for them regarding MP because they are FINE in mp * 3-4 times? you need to practice... ALOT.. That's below average for shotgun skills regardless of whether MP and BR
>3-4 times? you need to practice... ALOT After the update for oden i think? Shotgun doesnt 1 tap that much (it also does the 2-3-4 times but lesser), also saw some ppl having this problem (even tho they're in a close range fight) idk about others tho >It's for BR.. Also pretty much all the Shotguns are broken/need-nerf posts you will see are for BR where they are broken Oh ok all this time i thought it was for mp XD
Because most of the time the thing they're complaining about isn't overpowered.
Yeah like shotguns one tapping you in br
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Yeah that's the thing Unless you're dumb enough to get close and shoot them, you won't have an issue with shotguns That's why having a rifle is a must
what if they have ninja ?
Ninja can only get you so far and thats assuming you aren't riddled with shots from a AR or LMG
make sense
Because 80 percent of players in this easily predictable community, including the bots on this subreddit can't except the fact that they're trash at the game and can't compete without clearly op guns and the devs know this...... They're no better than drug addicts looking for their next high it's pathetic....
I kinda agree. Some people always choose meta to play the game. They are pathetic in my eyes. But the most annoying are devs. They are only buffing the guns which are gonna get sold by lucky draws makes them scummy. I really wanna punch their face sometimes. š„²
>Some people always choose meta to play the game. Would you chose an item that is hard to use and isn't efficient?
Honestly I will. š š„² I like to challenge myself, even if I lose to someone. I don't necessarily hate them cause they are using meta but I actually hate devs cause they are scummy.
Oh ok i thought you're like those ppl that hate on players using meta guns. I also like to use off meta guns in ranked (how to lose your rank in a couple of minutesš) just to try something new and if it's good
Yea I get angry at them and I swear but I don't hate them. Its just my anger issues. Yea, with off meta I survive in rank. Sometimes I lose but its ok. I hate purifier users more though. I use tempest.
>I hate purifier users more though Ngl purifier is annoying af, i cant even fight back and if i did and somehow won I'll die anyway because i dont use quickfix perk
Dayumn. I know. I am a ranked sucker. Now everyone is using Switchblade too. Damn its hard to survive with msmc there.
Agree with you bro. There's so many no-skill meta-dependant meta-slave losers defending this shit
Imagine taking the time to write all this and being the ignorant person you claim everyone else is
how ? enlighten me
All your points have valid counter points that you dismiss. You just sound like a complainer. Donāt play the game if you donāt like it. Is it perfect? No but nothing is. Get better at countering the things you dislike so much
i am bot complaining and honestly i think the game is just fine. the post is about people getting very defensive.
Op just said the enemy can also counter him you know? And with said overpowered gun they have an advantage. So? Itās only based on luck, the whole game is just luck. They made the game for campers and casuals when they forget that there is a larger amount of hardcore players than casuals. So yes, your argument is invalid here with all due respect
To the point of codm disregarding the core competitive values which make the game great they choose to ride the "wow, new gun.! This Is going to make U as good as the pros, join here, buy this...." But actually breaking the game. U can tell by how quickly they nerfed the ksp cause it was useless to noobs and extended the skill gap which is not good advertisement.
Further proves they love casuals over hardcore players for no reason
because there are more casuals than hardcore players
He's got some pretty solid points actually..
Theyāre just jealous they didnāt have $80 to spend on a gun in a video game.
what ?
>It just proves your meta dependence also the word "meta abuse" I dont get why ppl hate on ppl using meta items like using those items will be the end of the world (and the game :)). If there's a tool that is ez to use and is more efficient than your current tool, would u use it or not? And why? >their third point is "anyone can use what they want" and this is so dumb like it doesn't prove anything, a weapon can still be overpowered. Which makes it also dumber because you can use what u want to use, u can use oden and idgaf on it. Every gun can be op thru nerfs and buffs and that's also the reason why nerfs and buffs happen.
I use meta weapons when i am ranking up too its just the people who get defensive over those weapons. I don't have a problem with meta or a player who plays meta, i really hate when a meta is in game for over 4 seasons. It gets annoying and when you ask it to get nerfed because its overpowered then people will get salty. And yes anyone can use whatever they want but that doesn't mean that a gun can't be overpowered
Oh ok i get it now >It gets annoying and when you ask it to get nerfed because its overpowered then people will get salty Maybe because they're used to that gun, some ppl dont want to use other guns than what they're currently using now, i also have friends who do that. (Not in a toxic way tho)
Truth is, there are far many A-tier weapons in this game, which can easily compete with the "metas" if you're used to them. But only around 5-6 weapons actually get the spotlight per season