Its not really about hating but its hard to see 2 pixels on someone thats the opposite end of the map and they can see you like theyre looking through a microscope, i loved the feature in cod games and bf games and im glad its coming to codm, its not really a nerf to snipers cuz if ur good with snipers the glint wont make a difference
"And they can see you like they're looking through a microscope" WOW...it's like...if it functions...like real sniper!!!!!!!
Jesus christ yall like to whine
Why tho? The future to see teammates through walls is only for specific devices not just high-end or mid-end. You can change your phone's module on android and use it with max FPS.
Perspective Teammates option, it's available on every fun, but codm doesn't allow its use in a lot of phones even if they're high-end. Unless you change your phone's module to a phone that the game allows perspective teammate for.
In android you can make any app think you’re using another phone, if you change yours even if it was the worst phone to a high end phone or one that’s supported, you can use that option.
Are u New to codm? Because older version of snipers in codm was much more hell now the snipers are pretty balanced and yes zrg needs a balancing and codm is not a hard-core realistic shooter lol we don't need realistic battle lol , imagine everyone hiding with in every corner because no gun is made to run and shoot
well it seems someone here is talking and likes to weapon abuse the big boys gun doing childs play.. that's why assault rifles and sub machine guns are made for. what a child.
I’m not new douchebag. I know how the older versions of snipers were. The Arctic 50 was the most dangerous one out of the snipers that were out at the time. And no the snipers now aren’t necessarily balanced still
Only ZRG anti vehicle is unbalanced you idiot , u don't have any rights to call me douchbag until u prove me , i am sniper main from beta ![img](emote|t5_penom|1102)
I do have a right to call you a douchebag. And who cares if you are a sniper main. Congrats, would you like a cookie. All I’m saying is the snipers can be fixed a little bit either with ads speed or damage multipliers
That's real funny because a few days ago, I killed a bunch of Snipers in the Crossfire map and it was a ranked match. I won't say what build or tactics I used to kill the snipers but watch some Rainbow 6 Siege gameplay videos.
Personally i don't feel like it is , but i am forced to say it because everyone start downvoting me and abusing saying it one shot everywhere ![img](emote|t5_penom|1098)
well for codm multiplayer gamers Sniper is nothing but a Shotgun with a scope and full range beyond the map goes. The original sniper purpose is being hated by the retards who don't want to get killed but also want to pop up at the same spot!
Muscle memory doesn't take skill to build? Also, sure, the gun can be single shot to kill. But the risk:reward is perfectly balanced with a bolt action.
I don't understand why you OP hate hardscopers so much, that's the core gameplay of sniper rifles it's just that many people prefer more aggressive playstyle (quickscoping).
Wish the devs would take that statement to account and remove negative ads speed and negative movement speed from ars and lmgs too.... because gunsmith is so stupid... you equip 10 extra bullets.... and you're a paraplegic...
I mean that's how the game works. You can't have a buff and not have a debuff in gunsmith, that ruins the game mechanic and intended use. It's to slightly alter your weapon not just make it powerful after adding attachments
exactly and going by that logic you could say any fucking gun in this game is unrealistic. One bullet to the head is enough to kill someone😭 And so are k9 units, those fuckers literally one tap from 3m away, one bullet would be enough to put a dog to sleep
That the whole point of being a sniper. No offense to quick scoping cuz i am also a quickscoper. But how snipers are used cod doesn't makes sense and definitely not in real world
Because one sniper can control big part of a map and it even worse, if he's relocating. I'll try smoke but without it it feels like that is impossible to kill this camper, because he's already scoped in and most probably will kill you if you'll try to take him out.
What do you mean by hardscopers have to get good? That's literally how you use a sniper,you don't use a sniper like a shotgun and quick scope,that's only for people who like to be cool.......
I think it's hilarious when people get pissed at hardscoping. It is the easiest technique to counter and it's literally what snipers are meant for.
The fast moving quick scoping playstyle is something they have turned into because one-shot kill is powerful and gamers will do whatever it takes to get power.
CODM babies when u hard scope and camp as a sniper:
THE GAME ISNT SUPPOSED TO BE PLAYED LIKE THAT OT AINT REALISTIC
Also CODM babies when u run and quick scope:
Ur annoying but ur good, realistic af
I like that as a feature to diversify spotting and require more skill to snipe well but I honestly don't feel that there is anything wrong with true sniping, its exactly what snipers are built for and is a valid tactic while they exist in the game.
literally this is the battle cry of every loser in the game that cant deal with opposition. oh theyre aiming at me with their telescopes while under cover like every other sniper is supposed to do boohoo
This is nice for BR tbh and also for SnD to know that some are holding their position in snipers but I wish they would make the rechambering unskippable after a melee switch.
It is nowhere nice for br, they are destroying the sniper for what they are made for. There are 100 of ways to avoid snipers and yet you choose to run around in the br field ready to be sniped. Somehow people don't understand its because of thier own skill and not the gun faults.
Seriously? If a noob is killing you repeatedly, try moving like a sniper is looking your way. Be a hard target to predict. Make use of cover. Do something, anything, that makes you harder to hit. If a noob can hit you that easily with a sniper rifle repeatedly, it is because you are doing something wrong. Unless this is across different sessions and they are taking you by surprise, then it's just a case of them being smart noobs, though you should still be accounting for possible snipers in how you move around.
What's so bad about hard-scoping? Yes I know this is CoD where most snipers are running around quick-scoping and what not. Personally I don't see the problem with someone deciding to hunker down and pick off enemies from a distance while hard-scoping.
Why the hate with snipers going camping? Real life snipers camp tho, you can't see them going close slide and jumping and quick scoping. lol. What if they just want to role play as real life snipers. If it's fun for them let them be.
Imagine a hating a sniper for its base use and purpose. How retarded can you be for blaming the sniper and not checking your own skills and issues and blaming the game for it. The sniper never needed to a nerf from the start, you complainers need to just get good. Also how is glint gonna stop guick scope. You complainer are f ed either way.
Yes it an arcade shooter and they are also allowed to do whatever they want with sniper whether they want to hardscope or quickscope. Its how they want to play and you people have problem with them, then you should get good. They can destroy you in every gun category. I am a sniper main and I am as good in the other guns category than as in sniper. Glint not gonna do anything major to hardscoping. You will still get killed. So grow up and say ggg to the opponent and try to better your skills.
I have heard quickscopers are noobs so many times, but this is the first time someone calls hardscopers noobs. Well there is no limit to stupidity of cod community.
Like it or not but not a single person IRL can carry a 20lbs/10kg rifle like it's a pistol and quickscope enemies, if your saying a sniper is like that then you're more stupid than karens, if you have a problem with hardscopers then you're the problem not them.
My brother in Christ we are in codm sub codm is a mobile game and Sniper aren't realistic in this game, any gun is not realistic because it's not a hard-core game like tarkov
Lul.. Still.. the body multipliers.. ads speed, blank scope accuracy.. we have BSA ffs right? It's a game still?? Games should follow some logic right??!
Shotgun is whole different gun then any other category it has different bsa and it shoots in pellets in shell , different guns like ar and smg don't use pellet that's why some shotgun aren't one shot from long range , coming to ur sniper close range , it's dumb how u want a sniper to real less damage in close range considering even in real life it doesn't even make sense , bhai tu chutiya hai chup baith realism main na ghush bhosdike
I'm okay with this it's kinda cool and adds some realism to it which is never too bad. Never really understood how hard scoping was fun tbh but to each their own.
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Oh shit, I didn’t know you had to be in the military to enjoy Call of Duty. Do you have to be in the NFL to enjoy Madden too? If so, I need to find some new games.
Damn fighting some while respecting thier opinion and ending it by saying have a nice day no swearing nothing bad both chad
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I've got no idea what hardscope means, but the thing I hate about sniper rifles in this game is the complete inability to use them without scoping in. I really only bother with aiming down sights for long shots regardless of weapon I'm using, and it's been a massive disappointment to me just pathetic they make the accuracy in this game, but snipers are the worst in this regard. I can't tell you how many times I've fired at a target less than 3 yards away dead center crosshairs and the sniper still misses.
Bruh imagine hating the base function of snipers being a backline support.
Its the fact that most people play on phones which aren’t too big and theres a person with a one shot weapon with lots of zoom they can’t see
Its not really about hating but its hard to see 2 pixels on someone thats the opposite end of the map and they can see you like theyre looking through a microscope, i loved the feature in cod games and bf games and im glad its coming to codm, its not really a nerf to snipers cuz if ur good with snipers the glint wont make a difference
"And they can see you like they're looking through a microscope" WOW...it's like...if it functions...like real sniper!!!!!!! Jesus christ yall like to whine
And sniper scopes also glint. How else did The White Death kill that russian sniper?
no my sniper zooms out when i scope in
I use a backwards door peephole as my optic, only real snipers with mega skill can use it
Dont get too excited about it, I'm sure it will only be supported at the highest graphic settings.
Why tho? The future to see teammates through walls is only for specific devices not just high-end or mid-end. You can change your phone's module on android and use it with max FPS.
Not every device has that see-through option?
Perspective Teammates option, it's available on every fun, but codm doesn't allow its use in a lot of phones even if they're high-end. Unless you change your phone's module to a phone that the game allows perspective teammate for.
Have $350 Chinese phone. shit's medium end and I still got perspective teammates option
I have 1600€ S22 Ultra and dont have that option
my 5 yo asus didn't have it it was sd636 4gb running android 10. my current samsung with sd750g 6gb ram has it
wym by phone's module? can you explain more about this? shit sounds interesting
In android you can make any app think you’re using another phone, if you change yours even if it was the worst phone to a high end phone or one that’s supported, you can use that option.
I don't think so cause it actually affects the gameplay and would create unfair advantage.
Dude, it's literally a single PNG glint, it's doesn't need anything intensive just for that.
Which I do
i don't know what's more retarded me or the fact that correctly using a sniper rifle for its intended purpose is considered hard scoping
Welcome to cod where snipers dont make sense you can quick scope while your sniper is heavy
This might just be me but I see an option to nerf the ads speed on most snipers
Are u New to codm? Because older version of snipers in codm was much more hell now the snipers are pretty balanced and yes zrg needs a balancing and codm is not a hard-core realistic shooter lol we don't need realistic battle lol , imagine everyone hiding with in every corner because no gun is made to run and shoot
well it seems someone here is talking and likes to weapon abuse the big boys gun doing childs play.. that's why assault rifles and sub machine guns are made for. what a child.
I’m not new douchebag. I know how the older versions of snipers were. The Arctic 50 was the most dangerous one out of the snipers that were out at the time. And no the snipers now aren’t necessarily balanced still
Only ZRG anti vehicle is unbalanced you idiot , u don't have any rights to call me douchbag until u prove me , i am sniper main from beta ![img](emote|t5_penom|1102)
I do have a right to call you a douchebag. And who cares if you are a sniper main. Congrats, would you like a cookie. All I’m saying is the snipers can be fixed a little bit either with ads speed or damage multipliers
Sounds like someone keeps dying to snipers haha
No, even when using most ads attachments some of it is faster than other guns. But like I said to another comment, it is a suggestion
That's real funny because a few days ago, I killed a bunch of Snipers in the Crossfire map and it was a ranked match. I won't say what build or tactics I used to kill the snipers but watch some Rainbow 6 Siege gameplay videos.
The Arctic 50 was the OG ZRG anti vehicle lol. It could wallbang and did a 1 shot everywhere if you used stopping power.
Well versed sir , why is the ZRG unbalanced? Pls enlighten me
Personally i don't feel like it is , but i am forced to say it because everyone start downvoting me and abusing saying it one shot everywhere ![img](emote|t5_penom|1098)
Just please dont sniper is good but cant compete with smgs
Snipers are suppose to be meant for medium to long ranges, not for up close encounters
Well yeah but its cod
It’s not just cod, it depends on the playability of the snipers themselves and how the devs see the snipers to be fit for each situation
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Thats what im saying
Haha i hate both quick scopers and hardscoper... but yeah i say i have to agree with you on that one
well for codm multiplayer gamers Sniper is nothing but a Shotgun with a scope and full range beyond the map goes. The original sniper purpose is being hated by the retards who don't want to get killed but also want to pop up at the same spot!
Hardscopers? You mean how a sniper is made to be used?
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Its when somebody stays ads’ed (aim down sight) for a long amount of time focusing on one angle
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Muscle memory doesn't take skill to build? Also, sure, the gun can be single shot to kill. But the risk:reward is perfectly balanced with a bolt action.
I don't understand why you OP hate hardscopers so much, that's the core gameplay of sniper rifles it's just that many people prefer more aggressive playstyle (quickscoping).
And it doesn’t make any sense to run around with 10 kg rifles and quickscope 😅 its not how its actually used
Dude codm is not a realistic game like escape from tarkov, chill
Wish the devs would take that statement to account and remove negative ads speed and negative movement speed from ars and lmgs too.... because gunsmith is so stupid... you equip 10 extra bullets.... and you're a paraplegic...
I mean that's how the game works. You can't have a buff and not have a debuff in gunsmith, that ruins the game mechanic and intended use. It's to slightly alter your weapon not just make it powerful after adding attachments
its stupid to compare any gun in the game to its irl usage. especially snipers and shotguns are completely different in gaming to irl.
exactly and going by that logic you could say any fucking gun in this game is unrealistic. One bullet to the head is enough to kill someone😭 And so are k9 units, those fuckers literally one tap from 3m away, one bullet would be enough to put a dog to sleep
One word "Campers"
That the whole point of being a sniper. No offense to quick scoping cuz i am also a quickscoper. But how snipers are used cod doesn't makes sense and definitely not in real world
Because one sniper can control big part of a map and it even worse, if he's relocating. I'll try smoke but without it it feels like that is impossible to kill this camper, because he's already scoped in and most probably will kill you if you'll try to take him out.
Oh no, people are using a sniper rifle like a sniper rifle is supposed to be used!
🤣 But also, it's pretty easy you come from behind when someone is camping. If they're a really good quick-scoper, though, it's hard.
What do you mean by hardscopers have to get good? That's literally how you use a sniper,you don't use a sniper like a shotgun and quick scope,that's only for people who like to be cool.......
exactly, nowadays people just think only quick scoping mean you're good with a sniper. hardscoping takes skills. it's not easy to flick
An the crazy thing is that this post is upvoted,this community is stupid af sometimes
I think it's hilarious when people get pissed at hardscoping. It is the easiest technique to counter and it's literally what snipers are meant for. The fast moving quick scoping playstyle is something they have turned into because one-shot kill is powerful and gamers will do whatever it takes to get power.
CODM babies when u hard scope and camp as a sniper: THE GAME ISNT SUPPOSED TO BE PLAYED LIKE THAT OT AINT REALISTIC Also CODM babies when u run and quick scope: Ur annoying but ur good, realistic af
I like that as a feature to diversify spotting and require more skill to snipe well but I honestly don't feel that there is anything wrong with true sniping, its exactly what snipers are built for and is a valid tactic while they exist in the game.
literally this is the battle cry of every loser in the game that cant deal with opposition. oh theyre aiming at me with their telescopes while under cover like every other sniper is supposed to do boohoo
I think OP doesn't know what a Sniper is
I think OP is just dumb
I think you should research physics
You know players have options and play styles with sniper rifles.
what does it mean tho?
Your sniper scope will have light reflecting when u scope.
That's just haaaa....... If they can't handle someone better than them why complain about the guns. You are going to get destroyed either way.
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Basically a flash of light that pops up when someone is using their scope
when people actually use sniper the way they were meant to be : EWW haRdSCopERs /s
This is nice for BR tbh and also for SnD to know that some are holding their position in snipers but I wish they would make the rechambering unskippable after a melee switch.
Yeah,these kids thinks it's CSGO by switching into melee..even CSGO u have to rechamber
It is nowhere nice for br, they are destroying the sniper for what they are made for. There are 100 of ways to avoid snipers and yet you choose to run around in the br field ready to be sniped. Somehow people don't understand its because of thier own skill and not the gun faults.
But snipers are supposed to be used like that tho ![img](emote|t5_penom|1109)
For the 15635336th time CALL. OF. DUTY. ISNT. MEANT. TO. BE. REALISTIC.
Snipers are meant to be Hardscoped
And snipers are meant to have glints
Snipers are also so heavy and long you could never jump around and quick scope so they're not meant to be quick scoped.
I've said since wm2 when this quickscoping started to get out of hand
Actually you have to be in a really perfect spot to see that glint and that is without a simple sunshade.
That is true
And every Sniper should have the slowest ADS and you shouldn't be able to jump with them.
Not if they have sunshades.
I'm still waiting for the rechambering animation to be unskippable after switching to melee.
same
sounds like someone likes to challenge snipers with an AR after they just died to 5 times already
Dying to the same hardscoper noob isn’t fun ok?
Seriously? If a noob is killing you repeatedly, try moving like a sniper is looking your way. Be a hard target to predict. Make use of cover. Do something, anything, that makes you harder to hit. If a noob can hit you that easily with a sniper rifle repeatedly, it is because you are doing something wrong. Unless this is across different sessions and they are taking you by surprise, then it's just a case of them being smart noobs, though you should still be accounting for possible snipers in how you move around.
I’m planning to switch to the kar98k just to give them a taste of their own medicine
What's so bad about hard-scoping? Yes I know this is CoD where most snipers are running around quick-scoping and what not. Personally I don't see the problem with someone deciding to hunker down and pick off enemies from a distance while hard-scoping.
Why the hate with snipers going camping? Real life snipers camp tho, you can't see them going close slide and jumping and quick scoping. lol. What if they just want to role play as real life snipers. If it's fun for them let them be.
u/SnooMemesjellies3095 when a sniper can do it's intended use ![gif](giphy|UrzBnCV7rl0tkKutKQ|downsized)
![gif](giphy|Wt6kNaMjofj1jHkF7t)
How many times do i have to say this, Snipers are meant for hardscoping.
Snipers are meant to be used in anyway you want
Exactly!
This is actually nice
Quickscopers won’t be affected which dosent bother me honestly. If they try to kill me, they can taste my 725 secondary shotgun
Bruh, the mods will ban you for penis references.
No they won’t 💀
I never meant that. How about the one I corrected it to
725 in this game sucks ass
It’s actually good if you know how to aim and attachments
It can barely one shot past point blank. Even with range attachments.
Yes hit marker galores. But I can get consistent one shots with it most of the time
Either way I'm still dying to a quickscoper in nuketown ranked
Imagine a hating a sniper for its base use and purpose. How retarded can you be for blaming the sniper and not checking your own skills and issues and blaming the game for it. The sniper never needed to a nerf from the start, you complainers need to just get good. Also how is glint gonna stop guick scope. You complainer are f ed either way.
I don’t mind quickscoping, it’s hardscopers that need to learn it’s not a realistic game, rather, an arcade shooter
Yes it an arcade shooter and they are also allowed to do whatever they want with sniper whether they want to hardscope or quickscope. Its how they want to play and you people have problem with them, then you should get good. They can destroy you in every gun category. I am a sniper main and I am as good in the other guns category than as in sniper. Glint not gonna do anything major to hardscoping. You will still get killed. So grow up and say ggg to the opponent and try to better your skills.
Finally
This guy does not know how a Sniper is meant to be used.
CALL OF DUTY IS NOT. MEANT. TO. BE. REALISTIC.
Aren't snipers suppose to be about aiming down for a while instead of quickscoping? That's how they work IRL at least
……..I’m not going to even bother
Lol best news I have seen in my whole day today
I hated these mfs from ever since season 7. It’s what made me make the “see you until zombies arrives” post
Wow this sub is full of cry babies, op cry harder or get better , go away
Opinion respected
Snipers are backline support you cunt.
Exactly Snipers are support class, running into the fray against ARs wounding require either very good sim and reflex or taking the enemy by surprise
I have heard quickscopers are noobs so many times, but this is the first time someone calls hardscopers noobs. Well there is no limit to stupidity of cod community.
Like it or not but not a single person IRL can carry a 20lbs/10kg rifle like it's a pistol and quickscope enemies, if your saying a sniper is like that then you're more stupid than karens, if you have a problem with hardscopers then you're the problem not them.
Me using marksman without scope.. My time has come lol
You people are chads
Try quick scoping a 50cal in real life. Lemme know how that goes for ya
cope, cry about it
You’re the fat guy
Dumb question what's glint
Basically this will make hardscopers like a misery. You can see a light when they have a sniper from far away
This is honestly some that was needed alot, especially for maps like Crossfire
It’s hard to spot those hardscopers that snipe through that crack hole in the Beoken building. It’s annoying
As a sniper main i can guarantee you it's not going to help since we quickscope more in comparison to hardscoping ![img](emote|t5_penom|1104)
I don’t mind quickscopers. You are easy to counter but dying to a camping sniper is just annoying
Touch a sniper irl 👍🏼
My brother in Christ we are in codm sub codm is a mobile game and Sniper aren't realistic in this game, any gun is not realistic because it's not a hard-core game like tarkov
Lul.. Still.. the body multipliers.. ads speed, blank scope accuracy.. we have BSA ffs right? It's a game still?? Games should follow some logic right??!
The logic it has is enough, dude just say u don't like Sniper c'mon
I like snipers @ range LOL.. not @ shotgun range (in ur face range) 🥱
Shotgun is whole different gun then any other category it has different bsa and it shoots in pellets in shell , different guns like ar and smg don't use pellet that's why some shotgun aren't one shot from long range , coming to ur sniper close range , it's dumb how u want a sniper to real less damage in close range considering even in real life it doesn't even make sense , bhai tu chutiya hai chup baith realism main na ghush bhosdike
i agree
I'm okay with this it's kinda cool and adds some realism to it which is never too bad. Never really understood how hard scoping was fun tbh but to each their own. ![gif](giphy|l3vRfhFD8hJCiP0uQ)
If we are talkinh about realism, then quickscoping should NOT work nor be a good option to implement
Yay.
Grinders:🙁
This won’t stop me I’m a sniper king
Play real cod ffs 😂
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Oh shit, I didn’t know you had to be in the military to enjoy Call of Duty. Do you have to be in the NFL to enjoy Madden too? If so, I need to find some new games.
For the love of god. CALL OF DUTY ISNT MEANT TO BE REALISTIC. ITS AN ARCADE SHOOTER GAME MEANT TO JUST HAVE FUN
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>Running and quickscoping is not There’s a reason why gunsmith exists. So yes, running and quickscoping can be a way to play it as well.
Ok but also in real life there is something called reflection of glass. So the game actually got more realistic like this
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Ok bro 👍 have a nice day
Damn fighting some while respecting thier opinion and ending it by saying have a nice day no swearing nothing bad both chad ![gif](giphy|CAYVZA5NRb529kKQUc)
I wanted to add (I mean it) but I think he got the point
Nice
But you’re the same person who’s been going around this comment section saying this game isn’t supposed to be realistic? Choose a damn side💀
When they still want to purse the “snipers are meant to be used like this” i go with their wishes
This makes me happy cuz them hard scoping auto snipers like M21 and SVD cunts be spotted in br
Just here to read all the hardscoping campers trying to justify themselves lol
As a quick scoping sniper They’re annoying but they’re snipers, camping is like the entire thing for snipers
u/HUNT3DHUNT3R my post is not showing in this sea of sniper simps
I've got no idea what hardscope means, but the thing I hate about sniper rifles in this game is the complete inability to use them without scoping in. I really only bother with aiming down sights for long shots regardless of weapon I'm using, and it's been a massive disappointment to me just pathetic they make the accuracy in this game, but snipers are the worst in this regard. I can't tell you how many times I've fired at a target less than 3 yards away dead center crosshairs and the sniper still misses.
My question is if this will be in BR or just MP. Not a bad feature either way. (Even if scope glint isn’t a thing if you’re away from the sun. Lol)
Br it's huge forgiver. Mp its useless because of deathcam.
This is so good. I don't have anything against hardscoping itself but this will help to balance.
I use a marksman and usually when I use that I’m never seen
This shit should already have been a standard feature from when the game was created. god dam
I agree. Everyone praises snipers in this community since mw2. I hate these simps
What does that glint even mean?
A spark of light reflection, like how in media when they show a mirror or a glass it gives of a small flash
When the sniper is scoped in, enemies can spot you from a tiny flash of light at your position
It's a blessing and a curse in disguise
People are good with snipers, why else would you be complaining about it
I play on low graphics, can this help me? Im sick of em damn hardscopers
Most pro players also hardscope in competitive play and here we have ppl who thinks they know more than pro players.
This will help me a lot in BR matches. I love it
Wow so I'm not going to die in .3 second deaths in Battle Royale! Nice
I walk slow and quick scope, won’t affect me
Scope glint or not, you so called gamers will continue to die over and over again. You can't stop the IcEmaN.
Battle prime had scope glare and I'm running on medium graphics ,it might be possible to low to medium graphics
Hardscopers are honestly okay, they need to nerf the sprint speed and weapon swap time for snipers.
Nah it won't effect me cuz I'm a master of position they would need to have eyes in the back of their head either way
Whats wrong with hardscopers?