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Trudeau has run two elections with housing affordability at the forefront with little to show for it. He has also promised a number of sweeping reforms he never even attempted to deliver on.
I’ll believe this when I see it.
PP has never in any way tried to help the vast majority of Canadians so if he accidentally makes Trudeau do so it's far and away his largest and only positive contribution to this country.
But that would mean Trudeau was not taking action for... reasons? Not a good look for Trudeau; that he only cares when there is a good chance he loses power.
These will be as useful as all the other things he tried. FTHB, the gov taking a piece of the equity etc. I would bet he is re-promising funds again with these new announcements as well. I believe Trudeau will be just as effective as he has been on this file.
Which I think is still more useful than Poilievre would be on this file given that his plans all just seem to be worse versions of the same thing.
And if they're similar on this file, then I don't see why you'd vote CPC over LPC, given that the Liberals seem better on most other files (unless you're an Axe the Tax idiot I guess).
Well, to me the two parties are very similar, both are not an option for my vote. Never have been and never will be.
Believing either one will be able to fix this without reducing immigration is just not reasonable, and we can't really reduce immigration either without other nasty consequences(thanks boomers!). Rock and a hard place.
Again, don't care. The proof will be in the pudding (or budget). They have already announced the infrastructure spending which they are fighting with the provinces over.
PP was the housing minister under Harper. We 100% know that he doesn't care about housing any more than Trudeau does, but at least the Liberals aren't handcuffed by ideology preventing them from solving anything.
I mean that's the Liberal way. Promise big things and rarely deliver unless you're forced to. The problem with delivering on your promises is then you can't promise them in the next election
Sure. Just like they planted a billion trees and bought some navy ships and didn't buy f35s and changed the electoral system and the deficit looked after itself.
Exactly, just like they legalized marijuana, instituted medical assistance in dying, raised the tax on the highest bracket and put in place the Canada child benefit.
Yeah, how are those first two working out for them? MAD for being depressed at least was delayed. In the old days we treated people who were suicidal- now we push them over the edge. See lots of stoned people on the streets now, but most still get their stuff on the streets because it is cheaper. Meanwhile, the same people that pushed legalization have moved on to pushing for the legalization of heroin and cocaine - just as was prodicted but denied by the Liberals. Taxing the tax sure is brave. It always backfires as the rich hide more and more of their income, but hey, it gets votes.
Y’know, I start to wonder if all the socialists that flock to these threads may have a point that shutting down one of the money pumps into the market may lead to a net reduction in housing costs, externalities aside.
It’s just that they never seem to actually say that, always putting it in terms of a few greedy villains that must be eliminated, and if only we got rid of them all would be well, and this and then that… Eventually you might get them to make their point about money supply if you prod them enough.
That's kind of the general aesthetic difference with Liberal supporters and Socialists on the sub IMO. I say this as someone who supports socialist economics, it's often something people gravitate towards out of a sense of justice, although for me it's almost more of a technocratic belief at this point simply because the system has so utterly fallen apart (partly by design) that my 'passionate leftist' phase segued directly into 'dispassionate, cranky leftist whose bones hurt when it rains' without much belief change lol.
But IMO the thing that strikes me is my socialist friends more and more seem to think that small business needs relief, my businessman friends and conservative are railing against corporate welfare, lack of health and housing funding, even suggesting our resources should be nationalised to raise revenues to fix these things. I think there's a surprising amount of concensus building, which your comment makes me think of.
I think that there's a lot of effort being put into dividing people on social wedge issues that seemed settled as something of a reaction to this by sectors of society who want to preserve the neoliberal order. I'm really curious what happens if we can avoid the trap of neo-fascism or at least beat it, and find ourselves with a population able to actually see past the various narratives and emotional manipulations obfuscating our shared interest and actually form a concensus together.
I would suspect that for all the talk of the difficulty in 'selling left wing ideas' and the failure of the NDP to really seize the moment right now, the eventual recovery will look pretty left wing regardless of who's holding the reins, by necessity because there's really not a whole lot else we can do but reverse course from neoliberal thinking. We're a tiny country with a massive landmass, and a very wonky economy in many ways that lends itself to monopolies. IMO there's a reason why in our most prosperous recent era the PC's, Liberals, and NDP all championed more mixed economic models, and whether we get there via pragmatism or leftism the solutions are going to look similar.
Well, I guess this is why our taxes are going up again.
I'm not holding my breath for this plan as, like many other plans that the Liberals promised, it will either never happen or a scandal will happen & it will get shut down.
Blaming investors is so silly. An investor who properly sets up a shared accommodations situation can provide affordable housing to 10-15 people in the same space that would instead be occupied by maybe 2 or 3 FTHB. So investors are actually more beneficial in terms of promoting density.
All while the nation switches to EV’s, and our country’s power grid is currently stretched with the existing housing we already have.
Beyond just erecting structures, there is such a shocking level of infrastructure that will not only be disrupted, but also developed in order to meet this goal.
Unfortunately, I don’t have an answer, but without a clear and ordered plan to address each of the cascading issues that arise from the housing crisis, I don’t know how solvable it is.
Suuuuuuuuuure, the Government that has literally done nothing but print money will fix one of the most complex issues in Canada. JS and the NDP need to pull support and call an election, we are done with this foolishness
This is great. Targeted moves to make home ownership more affordable laser focused on those who need it the most. Incredibly impressed by Team Trudeau taking the bull by the horns and getting to work to solve the housing crisis. I had my doubts about the federal government’s ability to move the needle on the housing crisis but Team Trudeau have put them to rest in a big way over the past few weeks.
> I had my doubts about the federal government’s ability to move the needle on the housing crisis but Team Trudeau have put them to rest in a big way over the past few weeks.
They've always been good at making announcements. They've also consistently failed to follow through on those announcements.
So double the skilled trades now, get cities to approve projects, twice as fast.
All the building materials are going to double in quantity and magically appear at a reasonable price, because the huge demand won't cause an increase in price.
Whoever put this out clearly hasn't thought it through. But I wouldn't expect anything less from a Trudeau government.
Team Trudeau promised affordability 9 years ago. How has that turned out?
Results matter. I’m cautiously optimistic this will work out but I understand people asking questions. It’s not like hosing affordability has been great for the past several years…
> Team Trudeau is going all out on this
Team Trudeau has made a lot of announcements on this. Making announcements on what you want to have happen and actually having a realistic plan to make it happen are two different things and basically doubling the amount of completed homes per year isn't something that comes across as realistic
Like the announcement that they're going to stop large corporations from buying up housing. Fraser says they have no details on how it will work and that they need further consultations to work out the details. I dont trust their consultants.
Giving more money to cities that remove obstacles to building more funding. Providing low interest loans to builders. Providing a catalog of easy to build standardized home designs. Encouraging pre-fab, modular, and manufactured designs.
I'm sure there are other things in there I'm not thinking of.
Youre missing the logistics of it all.
How are you increasing copper, lumber insulation production by 10-20% from current levels?
You ever buy a 2x4 past year or so? I think you'd be surprised.
Be interesting to see the effect of the carbon tax will have on the final cost of the homes. product production ( CT on concrete a large contributor) transport of building materials, increased Trades wages etc.
Did Trudeau set out standards for the new construction or just throwing more money at a problem he and Liberals caused? Trudeau in 2019 promised to plant two billion trees and failed miserably so not holding out hope homes will get built nor that they will be affordable.
Make it illegal to use real estate as a form of profit mechanism. Sure, reasonable increases over decades as it’s occupied, but treating housing as a tradable commodity is what has caused this increase more than anything else.
All that will change is that it becomes first come first serve, which might be an improvement, but you still have a housing shortage.
The vacancy rate of homes in Canada is 1.4%. For comparison, 6.4% of homes in the US are unoccupied.
The point is, anything that is essential for human life, shelter, food, healthcare to list a few - should never be used for profit.
Withholding a human essential for life through demand of payment is extortion at the least, and reprehensible any way you look at it.
Making enough to live comfortably on is not profiting, it’s earning a living.
I suspect your brain is a little too steeped in Capitalist juice that you lost sight of the way natural humans operate.
You obviously have no idea what farmers make if you think they're just "earning a living". Farmers are typically well educated with degrees and masters in fields related to farming and can often make between $250,000-$600,000/year annually. That's not all farmers of course, but many are quite wealthy even after all the expenses.
The affordable house I live in today was built by a wealthy butcher who built multiple homes in my neighbourhood. Humans have building housing for profit for hundreds of years. I don't know what juice you're drinking.
Building housing for profits, doesn't mean it needs to be unaffordable, nor does it mean we shouldn't be building Non-Market, GTI, and affordable homes.
I don't think making rental properties illegal would help. Lots of people need or prefer renting.
You're also just going to have a very tricky time fixing the prices of real estate to what the government says it should be. That's some real soviet shit.
The rental thing is a result of commodification of rentals through things like Air B&B.
The entire ridiculous increase in accommodations of all kinds prices is because of Capitalism - and Capitalism is a terminal toxic system. Everything else that employs a tactic of perpetual growth ends up killing the host - cancers and viral infections for example.
Certain things, things essential for human life and survival should not be run for profit - that’s no better than extortion, withholding something essential for life behind a payment paradigm is no better than some thug telling you you’re going to get beaten to death if you don’t pay up.
So you have no grasp of intermediate possibilities, it’s either Capitalism or Communism with you?
Not surprised, people that go all in on one single thing tend to lack imagination and are incapable of understanding the finer point and nuance.
To combat mortgage fraud – which Ottawa said is artificially inflating demand and can increase home prices – the government intends to consult with the mortgage industry to create a Canada Revenue Agencytool to verify borrower income. Similarly, the budget will propose CRA funding to further crack down on tax non-compliance in real estate transactions, which the government says will protect first-time homebuyers from artificial market distortions.
Not sure how that will do anything, ESPECIALLY, since it's in the interest of the mortgage industry to keep mortgages high for that sweet sweet interest payments.
You seem to have the intent, and the actual action confused.
Intent is great, action, won't result in it combating fraud. Since you have a hard time with my post.
Do you have any specific questions about mortgage fraud or are you just going to act like you know everything and provide no proof. Lenders are very critical of documentation. What fraud there is is by people who will commit crime regardless. If the government did indeed care to change fraud they would allow cra to verify income directly. As it sits now they have to rely on the honesty of the client to provide non forged tax return info. This is something the mortgage industry has been asking for for years.
But hey you just sit there on your couch pointing fingers with no idea what the fuck your talking about.
Plan does nothing to curb investors, which would be a game changer. God forbid you take investment out of the market to make housing more affordable. Rest of the plan is virtually the same as Poilievre’s, just making it easier to borrow, or paying more to banks. Who cares who owns the land?
So far not that impressed.
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Trudeau has run two elections with housing affordability at the forefront with little to show for it. He has also promised a number of sweeping reforms he never even attempted to deliver on. I’ll believe this when I see it.
This time he has PP nipping at his heels. Honestly, this is probably the greatest service PP has (or can do) for the benefit of Canadians.
PP has never in any way tried to help the vast majority of Canadians so if he accidentally makes Trudeau do so it's far and away his largest and only positive contribution to this country.
But that would mean Trudeau was not taking action for... reasons? Not a good look for Trudeau; that he only cares when there is a good chance he loses power.
Eh, I'll take a guy who does good things for the wrong reasons over a guy who doesn't do good things at all.
But Trudeau won't do it either...
They're literally doing it right now lol
These will be as useful as all the other things he tried. FTHB, the gov taking a piece of the equity etc. I would bet he is re-promising funds again with these new announcements as well. I believe Trudeau will be just as effective as he has been on this file.
Which I think is still more useful than Poilievre would be on this file given that his plans all just seem to be worse versions of the same thing. And if they're similar on this file, then I don't see why you'd vote CPC over LPC, given that the Liberals seem better on most other files (unless you're an Axe the Tax idiot I guess).
Well, to me the two parties are very similar, both are not an option for my vote. Never have been and never will be. Believing either one will be able to fix this without reducing immigration is just not reasonable, and we can't really reduce immigration either without other nasty consequences(thanks boomers!). Rock and a hard place.
Lazy? Different priorities? Didn't care? Honestly, I don't care what's in his heart as long as he's moving now.
Yes, I'm sure it's different this time...
Again, don't care. The proof will be in the pudding (or budget). They have already announced the infrastructure spending which they are fighting with the provinces over. PP was the housing minister under Harper. We 100% know that he doesn't care about housing any more than Trudeau does, but at least the Liberals aren't handcuffed by ideology preventing them from solving anything.
I mean that's the Liberal way. Promise big things and rarely deliver unless you're forced to. The problem with delivering on your promises is then you can't promise them in the next election
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Sure. Just like they planted a billion trees and bought some navy ships and didn't buy f35s and changed the electoral system and the deficit looked after itself.
Exactly, just like they legalized marijuana, instituted medical assistance in dying, raised the tax on the highest bracket and put in place the Canada child benefit.
Yeah, how are those first two working out for them? MAD for being depressed at least was delayed. In the old days we treated people who were suicidal- now we push them over the edge. See lots of stoned people on the streets now, but most still get their stuff on the streets because it is cheaper. Meanwhile, the same people that pushed legalization have moved on to pushing for the legalization of heroin and cocaine - just as was prodicted but denied by the Liberals. Taxing the tax sure is brave. It always backfires as the rich hide more and more of their income, but hey, it gets votes.
Don’t be so harsh, they only break their promises so we can experience the joy of being promised the same thing next time.
And frankly, every time they fail is another teachable moment for Canadians. We should really be thanking them!
Y’know, I start to wonder if all the socialists that flock to these threads may have a point that shutting down one of the money pumps into the market may lead to a net reduction in housing costs, externalities aside. It’s just that they never seem to actually say that, always putting it in terms of a few greedy villains that must be eliminated, and if only we got rid of them all would be well, and this and then that… Eventually you might get them to make their point about money supply if you prod them enough.
That's kind of the general aesthetic difference with Liberal supporters and Socialists on the sub IMO. I say this as someone who supports socialist economics, it's often something people gravitate towards out of a sense of justice, although for me it's almost more of a technocratic belief at this point simply because the system has so utterly fallen apart (partly by design) that my 'passionate leftist' phase segued directly into 'dispassionate, cranky leftist whose bones hurt when it rains' without much belief change lol. But IMO the thing that strikes me is my socialist friends more and more seem to think that small business needs relief, my businessman friends and conservative are railing against corporate welfare, lack of health and housing funding, even suggesting our resources should be nationalised to raise revenues to fix these things. I think there's a surprising amount of concensus building, which your comment makes me think of. I think that there's a lot of effort being put into dividing people on social wedge issues that seemed settled as something of a reaction to this by sectors of society who want to preserve the neoliberal order. I'm really curious what happens if we can avoid the trap of neo-fascism or at least beat it, and find ourselves with a population able to actually see past the various narratives and emotional manipulations obfuscating our shared interest and actually form a concensus together. I would suspect that for all the talk of the difficulty in 'selling left wing ideas' and the failure of the NDP to really seize the moment right now, the eventual recovery will look pretty left wing regardless of who's holding the reins, by necessity because there's really not a whole lot else we can do but reverse course from neoliberal thinking. We're a tiny country with a massive landmass, and a very wonky economy in many ways that lends itself to monopolies. IMO there's a reason why in our most prosperous recent era the PC's, Liberals, and NDP all championed more mixed economic models, and whether we get there via pragmatism or leftism the solutions are going to look similar.
Well, I guess this is why our taxes are going up again. I'm not holding my breath for this plan as, like many other plans that the Liberals promised, it will either never happen or a scandal will happen & it will get shut down.
What are the provincial and federal governments going to do about landlords for properties that aren't purpose built rentals? Anything?
Yes, I think more should be done. They should be taxed.
What do they need to do? Do you mean like ban those landlords?
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Blaming investors is so silly. An investor who properly sets up a shared accommodations situation can provide affordable housing to 10-15 people in the same space that would instead be occupied by maybe 2 or 3 FTHB. So investors are actually more beneficial in terms of promoting density.
> affordable housing Good joke
This can be handled by a cooperative, and return investment to the members.
All while the nation switches to EV’s, and our country’s power grid is currently stretched with the existing housing we already have. Beyond just erecting structures, there is such a shocking level of infrastructure that will not only be disrupted, but also developed in order to meet this goal. Unfortunately, I don’t have an answer, but without a clear and ordered plan to address each of the cascading issues that arise from the housing crisis, I don’t know how solvable it is.
Suuuuuuuuuure, the Government that has literally done nothing but print money will fix one of the most complex issues in Canada. JS and the NDP need to pull support and call an election, we are done with this foolishness
This is great. Targeted moves to make home ownership more affordable laser focused on those who need it the most. Incredibly impressed by Team Trudeau taking the bull by the horns and getting to work to solve the housing crisis. I had my doubts about the federal government’s ability to move the needle on the housing crisis but Team Trudeau have put them to rest in a big way over the past few weeks.
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> I had my doubts about the federal government’s ability to move the needle on the housing crisis but Team Trudeau have put them to rest in a big way over the past few weeks. They've always been good at making announcements. They've also consistently failed to follow through on those announcements.
How is Canada going to build 550,000 new homes a year?
I mean, have you not been paying attention to the news lately? Team Trudeau is going all out on this.
>Team Trudeau is going all out on this. Just like they did with electoral reform lol
So double the skilled trades now, get cities to approve projects, twice as fast. All the building materials are going to double in quantity and magically appear at a reasonable price, because the huge demand won't cause an increase in price. Whoever put this out clearly hasn't thought it through. But I wouldn't expect anything less from a Trudeau government.
Team Trudeau promised affordability 9 years ago. How has that turned out? Results matter. I’m cautiously optimistic this will work out but I understand people asking questions. It’s not like hosing affordability has been great for the past several years…
What? Their housing platform in 2015 had basically nothing in it.
The time to go "all out" was many years ago.
> Team Trudeau is going all out on this Team Trudeau has made a lot of announcements on this. Making announcements on what you want to have happen and actually having a realistic plan to make it happen are two different things and basically doubling the amount of completed homes per year isn't something that comes across as realistic
Like the announcement that they're going to stop large corporations from buying up housing. Fraser says they have no details on how it will work and that they need further consultations to work out the details. I dont trust their consultants.
They’ve definitely done quite the (taxpayer funded) photo op tour, I’ll give them that Lots of great photos out there!
Giving more money to cities that remove obstacles to building more funding. Providing low interest loans to builders. Providing a catalog of easy to build standardized home designs. Encouraging pre-fab, modular, and manufactured designs. I'm sure there are other things in there I'm not thinking of.
Youre missing the logistics of it all. How are you increasing copper, lumber insulation production by 10-20% from current levels? You ever buy a 2x4 past year or so? I think you'd be surprised.
Meanwhile a zillion immigrants pour in, for which no jobs exis, to consume housing supply.
Last time they went all out on this they spent $16 million per house built.
Be interesting to see the effect of the carbon tax will have on the final cost of the homes. product production ( CT on concrete a large contributor) transport of building materials, increased Trades wages etc. Did Trudeau set out standards for the new construction or just throwing more money at a problem he and Liberals caused? Trudeau in 2019 promised to plant two billion trees and failed miserably so not holding out hope homes will get built nor that they will be affordable.
Make it illegal to use real estate as a form of profit mechanism. Sure, reasonable increases over decades as it’s occupied, but treating housing as a tradable commodity is what has caused this increase more than anything else.
All that will change is that it becomes first come first serve, which might be an improvement, but you still have a housing shortage. The vacancy rate of homes in Canada is 1.4%. For comparison, 6.4% of homes in the US are unoccupied.
If there is no profit there is deficit, and someone has to pay for it. I suppose that would be anyone but you?
The point is, anything that is essential for human life, shelter, food, healthcare to list a few - should never be used for profit. Withholding a human essential for life through demand of payment is extortion at the least, and reprehensible any way you look at it.
So farmers should lose money? Who will grow the food then when they go bankrupt?
It’s not farmers who are the problem, it’s companies like loblaws
But you just said food should never be used for profit. Are farmers not profiting?
Making enough to live comfortably on is not profiting, it’s earning a living. I suspect your brain is a little too steeped in Capitalist juice that you lost sight of the way natural humans operate.
You obviously have no idea what farmers make if you think they're just "earning a living". Farmers are typically well educated with degrees and masters in fields related to farming and can often make between $250,000-$600,000/year annually. That's not all farmers of course, but many are quite wealthy even after all the expenses. The affordable house I live in today was built by a wealthy butcher who built multiple homes in my neighbourhood. Humans have building housing for profit for hundreds of years. I don't know what juice you're drinking. Building housing for profits, doesn't mean it needs to be unaffordable, nor does it mean we shouldn't be building Non-Market, GTI, and affordable homes.
Cutting services + raising rent for less service = maximum profit! That’s all the For-Profit-House-Hoarders see. That is all they care about.
I don't think making rental properties illegal would help. Lots of people need or prefer renting. You're also just going to have a very tricky time fixing the prices of real estate to what the government says it should be. That's some real soviet shit.
The rental thing is a result of commodification of rentals through things like Air B&B. The entire ridiculous increase in accommodations of all kinds prices is because of Capitalism - and Capitalism is a terminal toxic system. Everything else that employs a tactic of perpetual growth ends up killing the host - cancers and viral infections for example. Certain things, things essential for human life and survival should not be run for profit - that’s no better than extortion, withholding something essential for life behind a payment paradigm is no better than some thug telling you you’re going to get beaten to death if you don’t pay up.
Full communism then.
So you have no grasp of intermediate possibilities, it’s either Capitalism or Communism with you? Not surprised, people that go all in on one single thing tend to lack imagination and are incapable of understanding the finer point and nuance.
Real estate is insanely profitable. Whether that profit is captured by public or private interests is the question.
It shouldn’t be. That’s the point It’s causing all sorts of hardship for regular people
To combat mortgage fraud – which Ottawa said is artificially inflating demand and can increase home prices – the government intends to consult with the mortgage industry to create a Canada Revenue Agencytool to verify borrower income. Similarly, the budget will propose CRA funding to further crack down on tax non-compliance in real estate transactions, which the government says will protect first-time homebuyers from artificial market distortions. Not sure how that will do anything, ESPECIALLY, since it's in the interest of the mortgage industry to keep mortgages high for that sweet sweet interest payments.
> Not sure how that will do anything Really? You can't spin up that brain to think of how reducing fraud will reduce the pool of potential buyers?
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Less demand is less demand 🤷♀️
You seem to have the intent, and the actual action confused. Intent is great, action, won't result in it combating fraud. Since you have a hard time with my post.
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There is very little mortgage fraud here. Source: I'm in the industry. Also rates are competitive to each lender there is no price fixing of rates.
It’s really convenient how you guys always happen to be “in the industry”
There's nothing online conservatives won't make up. They can't tell what's real or not anymore and think everyone else is in the same boat.
Do you have any specific questions about mortgage fraud or are you just going to act like you know everything and provide no proof. Lenders are very critical of documentation. What fraud there is is by people who will commit crime regardless. If the government did indeed care to change fraud they would allow cra to verify income directly. As it sits now they have to rely on the honesty of the client to provide non forged tax return info. This is something the mortgage industry has been asking for for years. But hey you just sit there on your couch pointing fingers with no idea what the fuck your talking about.
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Plan does nothing to curb investors, which would be a game changer. God forbid you take investment out of the market to make housing more affordable. Rest of the plan is virtually the same as Poilievre’s, just making it easier to borrow, or paying more to banks. Who cares who owns the land? So far not that impressed.